Jeremy---Once the seller leaves you feedback, you should provide him with a link to this thread so that he knows that his scam will cost him future business.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
BigRick, yes, that's the way to do it. I had my auctions set up like this for a while. I found it was an effective way to limit buyers on shopping sprees and people with buyer's remorse. I'm not big enough of a seller to feel comfortable when I see one buyer clicking off a number of items in one sitting, just boom boom boom. I'm sure plenty of big sellers see it all the time though.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
This should be extortion and EBay should ban these (insert expletive here!!). When will EBay learn this is the reason so many people are fed up with them? I haven't sold anything in a while, but I watch these boards and it makes me not want to sell on there anymore.
Perry
TheZooKrew Morgan, modern sets, circulated Kennedys, and Wisconsin error leaf quarter Collector First (and only - so far) Official "You Suck" Award from Russ 2/9/07
<< <i>Jeremy---Once the seller leaves you feedback, you should provide him with a link to this thread so that he knows that his scam will cost him future business. >>
I understand your decision and being in retail I have made some of the same decisions for long term business results. In this case with him selling as well would you not have had the same card to play with negative feedback for him? He also has a much lower feedback number making 20 negatives very rough for him.
I think I would have called his bluff and had him send the entire lot back. Bad deal for you all the way around. I hope someone sticks him on a human error one day. What comes around goes around.
That this chump is also a seller leaves yours truly somewhat hopeful for a lil poetic justice....not that I am advocating anything but what goes around comes around. That he was blocked by a few board members prior to this episode is telling....
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
I don't know about his past ebay purchases from you but 10k plus is a good chunk of change for coins....I guess you do not care for his future business?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>In this case with him selling as well would you not have had the same card to play with negative feedback for him? >>
Nope. Ebay doesn't let sellers leave anything other than positives for buyers now. Because of this, I just leave feedback when I get paid... I can't effectively threaten a positive if a buyer is being a jerk
If i really was unhappy with the 1 coin the logical thing to do ( if you still like the coin) is take a refund for the difference between grades. otherwise send the coin back and keep the others. This also would work if the buyer would get his head out of his arse.
Founder of the NDCCA. *WAM Count : 025. *NDCCA Database Count : 2,610. *You suck 6/24/10. In memory of Tiggar 5/21/1994 - 5/28/2010
<< <i>harrybond1965 is a 45 year old dung beetle. Blocked. >>
You owe an apology to all dung beetles.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
It's done and I think that Jeremy did the right thing on both fronts. It was a royal PIA to risk the 20 feedbacks, get the coins back, relist and so on. Then he did the right thing by coming here to help us steer clear of him, thus protecting us. Thanks and well done!
Wow that is brutal. Your offers to remedy the "situation" were way more than fair.
He definitely knew that coin was graded MS64, not MS65. But he knew you would probably have to let it slide and give him the whole refund for that coin, under threat that he send back the whole lot.
In the words of the great Amarillo Slim- "You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once." And thanks to these message boards, now he won't be shearing or skinning anyone else who reads this thread.
I was in communication with Jeremy during this episode (though he certainly didn't need my help). And I was extremely impressed with his conscientiousness, fairness, professionalism and sense of ethics. Of course, none of that was a surprise to me.
I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
<< <i>I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
<< <i>I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
Don't negotiate with extortionists. >>
Yup...and showed the scumbag this thread. >>
I did as the mob was getting a little out of hand. It sounds like Our member is 100% right but there is always two sides here is the guys full response **************************************
I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding
<< <i>I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
Don't negotiate with extortionists. >>
Yup...and showed the scumbag this thread. >>
I did as the mob was getting a little out of hand. It sounds like Our member is 100% right but there is always two sides here is the guys full response **************************************
I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding >>
crypto... ok ... his side of the story is now posted... I conclude he is still a major PITA (actually, too nice a term for this guy)... anyone who would insist on a FULL refund on a coin ( and still keep the coin???!!!) because of a typo... a coin that is also part of a major deal of 20 coins... and then insist he will return the whole lot if the FULL refund on the one coin is not given... is a full blown horse's rear end (my apologies to all horses everywhere)... and i would NEVER want to do business with such a person... regardless of how much money he may wish to spend!!!! and at this point, if i was jeremy, I would not want to respond to any communication from this moron either...
edited to add the comments now in parentheses
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
He sounds kinda creepy, doesn't he? Hollywood style. The twisted, glib, serial killer with a radio voice.
What a dirtbag. I am so tempted to buy something from him and leave him a negative. Especially because his DSR's are 5.0 based on small numbers and it would hit hard. What a complete loser. He turns my stomach. Lance.
I agree with Larry. Insisting on a full refund for one coin, because of a simple mistake, while keeping it, defies logic and reason. The buyer did not deny this in his response. I would not want to do business with someone who is so unreasonable.
<< <i>I agree with Larry. Insisting on a full refund for one coin, because of a simple mistake, while keeping it, defies logic and reason. The buyer did not deny this in his response. I would not want to do business with someone who is so unreasonable. >>
<< <i>I agree with Larry. Insisting on a full refund for one coin, because of a simple mistake, while keeping it, defies logic and reason. The buyer did not deny this in his response. I would not want to do business with someone who is so unreasonable. >>
>>
So do I.
And, even after having seen the buyer's reply, I don't feel any differently about him. The record of the email exchanges that he had with Jeremy, stands, and serves as far better factual information than his hollow accusations.
<< I agree with Larry. Insisting on a full refund for one coin, because of a simple mistake, while keeping it, defies logic and reason. The buyer did not deny this in his response. I would not want to do business with someone who is so unreasonable. >>
Yep, he can respond to Crypto however he wants, if it is true that he wanted a full refund and to keep the MS-64 coin, when it was pretty darn clear it was a 64 short of a typo is feedback hostage (deny it if you want, but because of people like you sellers feel this way, so no one to blame but yourself for this reaction) as a sign of no buyer I would want to do business with, ever. If Jeremey knows you as well as you claim, then his need to post this here just goes to show how offeneded and cornered he is/was. I personally would never do business with anyone who would do what you supposedly did. If the OP and the reactions are that far off, send your side to Crypto and allow him to post it here or join the boards and post your response, but I am sorry, random ebay buyer or Jeremy Yeah, the stand up guy that I have never know to do anything malicious.
<< <i>My first reaction was that you should have refunded him all the money and taken the coins back. You may lose some on the resales, but the ability to avoid problems might be more valuable than the few dollars retained on the existing sales. >>
Agreed. This may have called his bluff so to speak. Or to put it another way, he may have wanted to keep some of the 20 coins just enough to adjust his demands. This is one reason why I quit selling on eBay because of this type of vulture.
<< <i>I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding >> >>
I'll reply to each point he has made. First, I will say that I posted every message between us regarding this transaction up until the time at which I posted the thread. There is nothing I was hiding from our communications, and the only other communications I mentioned were calls to PayPal and eBay, for which he was understandably not kept in the loop.
1- I checked my records back to 2004 and can find one other transaction I had with the buyer in question, for a Russian coin valued around $300, in March of 2010. I deal in too much volume to remember a single buyer over that much time, unless something in the transaction stood out. The buyers I can instantly recognize as repeat buyers typically have a purchase every few weeks over a long period of time. Since March, I sold a few thousand coins and shipped them across the world. I can't remember everyone.
2- I paid my consignor for the coin, and refunded the buyer. That is a monetary loss as far as I'm concerned. The other losses I mentioned were with regards to reselling the coins at potentially lower prices (statistics will back me up on that) or the potential loss of fee credits for low DSRs. These were not losses that were relevant to his side of the transaction, but rather factors I had to consider in my handling of the transaction.
3- It's against eBay policies to discuss feedback, as once you do something on condition of feedback, it's feedback extortion. Again, you can read that I simply considered the likelihood of negative feedback and low DSR ratings in order to reach my conclusion. I never said I would get them, but rather that I had a legitimate fear of getting them.
4- You can leave as many feedbacks as you have available transactions. eBay has a slightly complex way of how and when they count them, but there is certainly a potential for significant damage from them. In addition, DSRs aren't averaged into one value per category per buyer per day. Each one left counts.
5- I work all day on Sundays. I've been working since I posted this thread (I just got to a stopping point... it's been a 9+ hour day), and took a few minutes off to see the thread now and then, and half an hour to eat lunch. I have not checked the email address the buyer sent the message to since around 9am PT, and I just now see the email came in at 11:55am. He sent the following:
"Hi Mr. Katz, My friends on e-bay told me that you opened a forum about our transaction. This is your right. But be honest to the end. You have opened to public our e-mail conversation, so please continue to do it. Please post this e-mail on the forum and I will send you another one. Regards"
Now, this is certainly not reaching out repeatedly, as it was one email. I haven't touched my phone all day, and see no missed calls or voicemails. Hiding? Nope, just busy as usual.
<< <i>I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding >> >>
I'll reply to each point he has made. First, I will say that I posted every message between us regarding this transaction up until the time at which I posted the thread. There is nothing I was hiding from our communications, and the only other communications I mentioned were calls to PayPal and eBay, for which he was understandably not kept in the loop.
1- I checked my records back to 2004 and can find one other transaction I had with the buyer in question, for a Russian coin valued around $300, in March of 2010. I deal in too much volume to remember a single buyer over that much time, unless something in the transaction stood out. The buyers I can instantly recognize as repeat buyers typically have a purchase every few weeks over a long period of time. Since March, I sold a few thousand coins and shipped them across the world. I can't remember everyone.
2- I paid my consignor for the coin, and refunded the buyer. That is a monetary loss as far as I'm concerned. The other losses I mentioned were with regards to reselling the coins at potentially lower prices (statistics will back me up on that) or the potential loss of fee credits for low DSRs. These were not losses that were relevant to his side of the transaction, but rather factors I had to consider in my handling of the transaction.
3- It's against eBay policies to discuss feedback, as once you do something on condition of feedback, it's feedback extortion. Again, you can read that I simply considered the likelihood of negative feedback and low DSR ratings in order to reach my conclusion. I never said I would get them, but rather that I had a legitimate fear of getting them.
4- You can leave as many feedbacks as you have available transactions. eBay has a slightly complex way of how and when they count them, but there is certainly a potential for significant damage from them. In addition, DSRs aren't averaged into one value per category per buyer per day. Each one left counts.
5- I work all day on Sundays. I've been working since I posted this thread (I just got to a stopping point... it's been a 9+ hour day), and took a few minutes off to see the thread now and then, and half an hour to eat lunch. I have not checked the email address the buyer sent the message to since around 9am PT, and I just now see the email came in at 11:55am. He sent the following:
"Hi Mr. Katz, My friends on e-bay told me that you opened a forum about our transaction. This is your right. But be honest to the end. You have opened to public our e-mail conversation, so please continue to do it. Please post this e-mail on the forum and I will send you another one. Regards"
Now, this is certainly not reaching out repeatedly, as it was one email. I haven't touched my phone all day, and see no missed calls or voicemails. Hiding? Nope, just busy as usual. >>
Im sure all agree, you dont need to defend yourself here on this forum.
For the record I was not on the Ebay buyers side, Just wanted to see the response as I would think the people buying 10k of specific coins would be what I would call a mature buyer and would want the transaction to go smoothly. I stand corrected & he does look to be trying to rip Airplanenut off
I haven't read the thread but I am probably one of the few responders who sells on ebay at a volume similar to yours. I would have called his bluff unless you had a huge profit built into the other sales, which I doubt. "You have my address, I will refund in full on receipt of returned coins and confirmation of unchanged condition. "
And I'm ready to sit down at the poker table with you whenever is convenient.
Harry would like me to answer some more questions. My pleasure:
<< <i>Hi Mr. Katz, I am glad that finally you have appeared on the forum. Let's continue to post my responce to your assault. First of all I would like to ask you some questions:
1. Why have you did not accept the refund of all coins? Do not lie, if we closed this transaction on e-bay, you will receive all money back including paypal fee. 2. I received only one point in my feedback for the whole transaction, you did the same. Why are you talking about multiple feedbacks? 3. If you were unhappy about transaction, why have you refunded $370? Maybe it is easy to get whole package back and resell it? Again, do not tell anyone that you will loose money on this transaction. 4. How you will feel paying $11,600 and receiving coin not advertized? 5. If you are upset about transaction, why to wait one month to start the forum?
I understand that you are a big guy in the community, but I will not allow you or anybody else to call me jerk, asshead and so far and so on. I will contact e-bay and paypal about this transaction to let people know what the guy are you. I am selling on ebay under my real name, not like many of you including yourself. Why? Because I am the guy who provide high quality service on ebay and there is nothing to hide. You have dicided to dump me. Sorry my friend, it is not going to work.
And finally, to make you feel better and let know the whole community I am ready to send you back all 20 coins and pay you 5% on refund. I hope in this case you will not cry that you are poor guy and could not handle your mistake as a man. Regards >>
1- When someone makes a ridiculous demand over a petty issue, I make an assumption that they're ready to play more games. It is not unreasonable to think that I could receive negative feedback for not caving to your original demand of a full refund on an item that you did not plan to return. If I refunded you your payment and canceled the auctions, yes, I would recover the fees from eBay and PayPal. That's not the point. I can point to numerous examples where coins have come back for whatever reason or simply been relisted because the buyer never paid. In almost every case, the coin drops in value unless it is extremely generic. These coins aren't generic, and there's a large potential loss if they're relisted any time in the near future. I am not afraid of a loss up until the point where the coins are returned; it's the potential loss that follows. In addition, if I did bother you enough for you to leave terrible feedback, that could cost me in the future, as well.
2- I'm not talking about the number that shows up next to my ID. eBay tracks cumulative feedbacks and DSR ratings to determine seller status. This isn't necessarily the same number that appears as your overall score.
3- I believe I've answered this time and again. It's damage control. You showed up as a loose cannon, and I decided it was cheaper to cave than face the potential future problems. See #1.
4- First off, it was $10,600. Second, the coin in question was $370 and change. Third, I would have seen the images and noticed a discrepancy. Fourth, I would have been separated the transaction because 19 of the coins were acceptable and as advertised. Fifth, I would have let the seller provide a fair resolution recognizing that it wasn't a mistake made with ill intent. I've made mistakes before, and I'll make them again. I've dealt with sellers who have screwed up, too. I've returned individual items when needed. I've taken partial refunds. I've never brought in irrelevant information (the rest of the package) as an arsenal. If I got 19 coins I was happy with, and one with which I wasn't, I would still want the 19. I would never have the gall to assume I was entitled to a full refund without returning the item.
5- Why wait? Because I like to think things through. I don't post when I'm angry, and I don't post when I have better things to do. I had an extremely busy December, and then I had a much deserved and long-awaited vacation. I posted this when I got around to it.
6- Every email I send has my name. I'm not hiding it.
7- Handle it like a man? You've got me. I made a business decision, and then decided to let others know about the transaction. They can decide who's handled this properly. Why not you return the coin for which you didn't pay and call it even? After all, it's the one you're disappointed to have.
It's ridiculous that he's still trying to defend his demands. This thread is great. Airplanenut, well handled. Added to my favorite ebayers (and harry, of course, to blocked ebayers).
Blocked. And Jeremy, it's a shame that you had to deal with filth like this, but many thanks for posting this on the boards, g_d forbid he'd bid on an item of mine!
People like this are why birth control was invented.
Bear's "Growl of Approval" award 10/09 & 3/10 | "YOU SUCK" - PonyExpress8|"F the doctors!" - homerunhall | I hate my car
Comments
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Perry
Morgan, modern sets, circulated Kennedys, and Wisconsin error leaf quarter Collector
First (and only - so far) Official "You Suck" Award from Russ 2/9/07
but anyone not reading this post and going by his feedback on eBay will be another potential victim .....
that whole eBay system is seriously flawed -
Thank you... and I am sad that you crossed paths with that POS.
<< <i>Jeremy---Once the seller leaves you feedback, you should provide him with a link to this thread so that he knows that his scam will cost him future business. >>
An excellent idea!
In this case with him selling as well would you not have had the same card to play with negative feedback for him?
He also has a much lower feedback number making 20 negatives very rough for him.
I think I would have called his bluff and had him send the entire lot back.
Bad deal for you all the way around. I hope someone sticks him on a human error one day.
What comes around goes around.
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
Successful BST transactions with -Youngcoin15, Ajbauman, Metalsman, carew4me, SportsModerator1, Ahrensdad, bstat1020, piecesofme , bigmarty58, Smittys, tydye,DRG ,Coll3ctor, Ciccio, cajun, Swampboy,Excalibur,lordmarcovan,themaster,RedHerring, many more!!!
Lafayette Grading Set
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>In this case with him selling as well would you not have had the same card to play with negative feedback for him? >>
Nope. Ebay doesn't let sellers leave anything other than positives for buyers now. Because of this, I just leave feedback when I get paid... I can't effectively threaten a positive if a buyer is being a jerk
<< <i>Already in my scumbag list, don't remember why. >>
Same here ... I suspect he pulled a similar stunt in the past.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.americanlegacycoins.com
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>harrybond1965 is a 45 year old dung beetle. Blocked. >>
You owe an apology to all dung beetles.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Jeff
He definitely knew that coin was graded MS64, not MS65. But he knew you would probably have to let it slide and give him the whole refund for that coin, under threat that he send back the whole lot.
In the words of the great Amarillo Slim- "You can shear a sheep a hundred times, but you can skin it only once." And thanks to these message boards, now he won't be shearing or skinning anyone else who reads this thread.
return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
Don't negotiate with extortionists.
What a piece of work.
Free Trial
<< <i>I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to
return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
Don't negotiate with extortionists. >>
Yup...and showed the scumbag this thread.
Free Trial
<< <i>
<< <i>I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to
return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
Don't negotiate with extortionists. >>
Yup...and showed the scumbag this thread. >>
I did as the mob was getting a little out of hand. It sounds like Our member is 100% right but there is always two sides here is the guys full response
**************************************
I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I actually think there's a fair chance he was bluffing. I probably would have told him to
return the entire lot, and offered the coins again in the event that he did.
Don't negotiate with extortionists. >>
Yup...and showed the scumbag this thread. >>
I did as the mob was getting a little out of hand. It sounds like Our member is 100% right but there is always two sides here is the guys full response
**************************************
I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding >>
crypto... ok ... his side of the story is now posted... I conclude he is still a major PITA (actually, too nice a term for this guy)... anyone who would insist on a FULL refund on a coin ( and still keep the coin???!!!) because of a typo... a coin that is also part of a major deal of 20 coins... and then insist he will return the whole lot if the FULL refund on the one coin is not given... is a full blown horse's rear end (my apologies to all horses everywhere)... and i would NEVER want to do business with such a person... regardless of how much money he may wish to spend!!!! and at this point, if i was jeremy, I would not want to respond to any communication from this moron either...
edited to add the comments now in parentheses
What a dirtbag. I am so tempted to buy something from him and leave him a negative. Especially because his DSR's are 5.0 based on small numbers and it would hit hard. What a complete loser. He turns my stomach.
Lance.
<< <i>I agree with Larry. Insisting on a full refund for one coin, because of a simple mistake, while keeping it, defies logic and reason. The buyer did not deny this in his response. I would not want to do business with someone who is so unreasonable. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>I agree with Larry. Insisting on a full refund for one coin, because of a simple mistake, while keeping it, defies logic and reason. The buyer did not deny this in his response. I would not want to do business with someone who is so unreasonable. >>
So do I.
And, even after having seen the buyer's reply, I don't feel any differently about him. The record of the email exchanges that he had with Jeremy, stands, and serves as far better factual information than his hollow accusations.
Yep, he can respond to Crypto however he wants, if it is true that he wanted a full refund and to keep the MS-64 coin, when it was pretty darn clear it was a 64 short of a typo is feedback hostage (deny it if you want, but because of people like you sellers feel this way, so no one to blame but yourself for this reaction) as a sign of no buyer I would want to do business with, ever. If Jeremey knows you as well as you claim, then his need to post this here just goes to show how offeneded and cornered he is/was. I personally would never do business with anyone who would do what you supposedly did. If the OP and the reactions are that far off, send your side to Crypto and allow him to post it here or join the boards and post your response, but I am sorry, random ebay buyer or Jeremy
P.S. I would not have been as polite as Jeremy.
<< <i>My first reaction was that you should have refunded him all the money and taken the coins back. You may lose some on the resales, but the ability to avoid problems might be more valuable than the few dollars retained on the existing sales. >>
Agreed. This may have called his bluff so to speak. Or to put it another way, he may have wanted to keep some of the 20 coins just enough to adjust his demands.
This is one reason why I quit selling on eBay because of this type of vulture.
<< <i>I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding >> >>
I'll reply to each point he has made. First, I will say that I posted every message between us regarding this transaction up until the time at which I posted the thread. There is nothing I was hiding from our communications, and the only other communications I mentioned were calls to PayPal and eBay, for which he was understandably not kept in the loop.
1- I checked my records back to 2004 and can find one other transaction I had with the buyer in question, for a Russian coin valued around $300, in March of 2010. I deal in too much volume to remember a single buyer over that much time, unless something in the transaction stood out. The buyers I can instantly recognize as repeat buyers typically have a purchase every few weeks over a long period of time. Since March, I sold a few thousand coins and shipped them across the world. I can't remember everyone.
2- I paid my consignor for the coin, and refunded the buyer. That is a monetary loss as far as I'm concerned. The other losses I mentioned were with regards to reselling the coins at potentially lower prices (statistics will back me up on that) or the potential loss of fee credits for low DSRs. These were not losses that were relevant to his side of the transaction, but rather factors I had to consider in my handling of the transaction.
3- It's against eBay policies to discuss feedback, as once you do something on condition of feedback, it's feedback extortion. Again, you can read that I simply considered the likelihood of negative feedback and low DSR ratings in order to reach my conclusion. I never said I would get them, but rather that I had a legitimate fear of getting them.
4- You can leave as many feedbacks as you have available transactions. eBay has a slightly complex way of how and when they count them, but there is certainly a potential for significant damage from them. In addition, DSRs aren't averaged into one value per category per buyer per day. Each one left counts.
5- I work all day on Sundays. I've been working since I posted this thread (I just got to a stopping point... it's been a 9+ hour day), and took a few minutes off to see the thread now and then, and half an hour to eat lunch. I have not checked the email address the buyer sent the message to since around 9am PT, and I just now see the email came in at 11:55am. He sent the following:
"Hi Mr. Katz,
My friends on e-bay told me that you opened a forum about our transaction. This is your right. But be honest to the end. You have opened to public our e-mail conversation, so please continue to do it. Please post this e-mail on the forum and I will send you another one.
Regards"
Now, this is certainly not reaching out repeatedly, as it was one email. I haven't touched my phone all day, and see no missed calls or voicemails. Hiding? Nope, just busy as usual.
<< <i>
<< <i>I really feel sorry for the people who make judgement without knowing the full story. Jeremy Katz is misleading evebody on this forum, even you. This is not my first transaction with him, so he knows me. But intention was to return the whole package. I was giving up even on Postage fee back and forth. But Jeremy is a greedy guy,He said he will loose money on this transaction. What a lie! He will loose $0.00 and everybody knows this. We never talked about negative feedback, but he made up a big case about 20 negative feedback. What a lie! You can leave only one feedback per day per seller, not 20 even you bought 20 items. And finally, I offered him to open mutual discussion on the forum so everybody will know what is going on. But Mr. Katz is hiding from me not even responding to emails. What a shame! I have reached out repeatedly today and he is not responding >> >>
I'll reply to each point he has made. First, I will say that I posted every message between us regarding this transaction up until the time at which I posted the thread. There is nothing I was hiding from our communications, and the only other communications I mentioned were calls to PayPal and eBay, for which he was understandably not kept in the loop.
1- I checked my records back to 2004 and can find one other transaction I had with the buyer in question, for a Russian coin valued around $300, in March of 2010. I deal in too much volume to remember a single buyer over that much time, unless something in the transaction stood out. The buyers I can instantly recognize as repeat buyers typically have a purchase every few weeks over a long period of time. Since March, I sold a few thousand coins and shipped them across the world. I can't remember everyone.
2- I paid my consignor for the coin, and refunded the buyer. That is a monetary loss as far as I'm concerned. The other losses I mentioned were with regards to reselling the coins at potentially lower prices (statistics will back me up on that) or the potential loss of fee credits for low DSRs. These were not losses that were relevant to his side of the transaction, but rather factors I had to consider in my handling of the transaction.
3- It's against eBay policies to discuss feedback, as once you do something on condition of feedback, it's feedback extortion. Again, you can read that I simply considered the likelihood of negative feedback and low DSR ratings in order to reach my conclusion. I never said I would get them, but rather that I had a legitimate fear of getting them.
4- You can leave as many feedbacks as you have available transactions. eBay has a slightly complex way of how and when they count them, but there is certainly a potential for significant damage from them. In addition, DSRs aren't averaged into one value per category per buyer per day. Each one left counts.
5- I work all day on Sundays. I've been working since I posted this thread (I just got to a stopping point... it's been a 9+ hour day), and took a few minutes off to see the thread now and then, and half an hour to eat lunch. I have not checked the email address the buyer sent the message to since around 9am PT, and I just now see the email came in at 11:55am. He sent the following:
"Hi Mr. Katz,
My friends on e-bay told me that you opened a forum about our transaction. This is your right. But be honest to the end. You have opened to public our e-mail conversation, so please continue to do it. Please post this e-mail on the forum and I will send you another one.
Regards"
Now, this is certainly not reaching out repeatedly, as it was one email. I haven't touched my phone all day, and see no missed calls or voicemails. Hiding? Nope, just busy as usual. >>
Im sure all agree, you dont need to defend yourself here on this forum.
EAC 6024
and I hope the buyer feels this was worth it as I can't imagine how many coins are now beyond his reach because of this.
And I'm ready to sit down at the poker table with you whenever is convenient.
--Jerry
You crack me up Lance
<< <i>Hi Mr. Katz,
I am glad that finally you have appeared on the forum. Let's continue to post my responce to your assault. First of all I would like to ask you some questions:
1. Why have you did not accept the refund of all coins? Do not lie, if we closed this transaction on e-bay, you will receive all money back including paypal fee.
2. I received only one point in my feedback for the whole transaction, you did the same. Why are you talking about multiple feedbacks?
3. If you were unhappy about transaction, why have you refunded $370? Maybe it is easy to get whole package back and resell it? Again, do not tell anyone that you will loose money on this transaction.
4. How you will feel paying $11,600 and receiving coin not advertized?
5. If you are upset about transaction, why to wait one month to start the forum?
I understand that you are a big guy in the community, but I will not allow you or anybody else to call me jerk, asshead and so far and so on.
I will contact e-bay and paypal about this transaction to let people know what the guy are you. I am selling on ebay under my real name, not like many of you including yourself. Why? Because I am the guy who provide high quality service on ebay and there is nothing to hide. You have dicided to dump me. Sorry my friend, it is not going to work.
And finally, to make you feel better and let know the whole community I am ready to send you back all 20 coins and pay you 5% on refund. I hope in this case you will not cry that you are poor guy and could not handle your mistake as a man.
Regards >>
1- When someone makes a ridiculous demand over a petty issue, I make an assumption that they're ready to play more games. It is not unreasonable to think that I could receive negative feedback for not caving to your original demand of a full refund on an item that you did not plan to return. If I refunded you your payment and canceled the auctions, yes, I would recover the fees from eBay and PayPal. That's not the point. I can point to numerous examples where coins have come back for whatever reason or simply been relisted because the buyer never paid. In almost every case, the coin drops in value unless it is extremely generic. These coins aren't generic, and there's a large potential loss if they're relisted any time in the near future. I am not afraid of a loss up until the point where the coins are returned; it's the potential loss that follows. In addition, if I did bother you enough for you to leave terrible feedback, that could cost me in the future, as well.
2- I'm not talking about the number that shows up next to my ID. eBay tracks cumulative feedbacks and DSR ratings to determine seller status. This isn't necessarily the same number that appears as your overall score.
3- I believe I've answered this time and again. It's damage control. You showed up as a loose cannon, and I decided it was cheaper to cave than face the potential future problems. See #1.
4- First off, it was $10,600. Second, the coin in question was $370 and change. Third, I would have seen the images and noticed a discrepancy. Fourth, I would have been separated the transaction because 19 of the coins were acceptable and as advertised. Fifth, I would have let the seller provide a fair resolution recognizing that it wasn't a mistake made with ill intent. I've made mistakes before, and I'll make them again. I've dealt with sellers who have screwed up, too. I've returned individual items when needed. I've taken partial refunds. I've never brought in irrelevant information (the rest of the package) as an arsenal. If I got 19 coins I was happy with, and one with which I wasn't, I would still want the 19. I would never have the gall to assume I was entitled to a full refund without returning the item.
5- Why wait? Because I like to think things through. I don't post when I'm angry, and I don't post when I have better things to do. I had an extremely busy December, and then I had a much deserved and long-awaited vacation. I posted this when I got around to it.
6- Every email I send has my name. I'm not hiding it.
7- Handle it like a man? You've got me. I made a business decision, and then decided to let others know about the transaction. They can decide who's handled this properly. Why not you return the coin for which you didn't pay and call it even? After all, it's the one you're disappointed to have.
Would anyone else like to comment?
<< <i>Jeremy, you are a class act. >>
Jeremy is one of the good guys out there!! A class act 100%
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People like this are why birth control was invented.