This is why guys like Jeremy and Jerry (carlsbadeagletrader who likened this situation to a "poker" game) are worth every penny in consignment fees to sell coins on ebay. I have never used Jeremy (yet), but would not personally hesitate to send him multi-thousands of dollars in coins on consignment. And, I know Jerry has also now handled at least one "six figure" ebay consignment. Again, these guys are worth every penny for their ebay efforts!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Wow, your buyer is a complete ass. 100% chance he knew before hand about the listing typo and had planned all along to scam you. My guess is he has done this before to other people and carefully combed your other auctions looking for other typos. Opportunistic ass-hats like this give the entire human race a bad name. Self-riteous scum who sanctimoniously rest on their belief that they are morally right just because they think they are technically right.
People like this never have any friends in life (they think they do though). They are the ones that no one invites anywhere, no one cares to be around, children never visit after they leave home and eventually die alone. He will answer to a higher power one day.
I would almost bet this buyer has pulled the same stuff with other sellers. Find an error in a listing, buy up several coins and ask for the moon. Not a nice person in my book. You handled this well Jeremy. Not sure I could have kept my cool.
To the buyer. You should return the coin. That would be the honest thing to do. How would you feel if someone pulled this type of thing on you, over a simple mistake?
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ******************************
I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot.
If that is the case, it is an interesting and unexpected piece of information that should have been made known earlier. Perhaps Jeremy would have done better discussing the situation with the end buyer, not the middle man. Whoever is pulling the strings on this is most unreasonable.
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ****************************** >>
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... what I am about to say is not directed at you but at this pinhead whose messages you are carrying...
In capital letters, harrybond1965 ... B S ... you and your message simply reek of it (and my apologies to all bulls averywhere)
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
<< <i>I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. >>
Oh really? This was the first email I received after the items were delivered:
"Thank you for your package. But I want to notify you that you misled me on one item. You described this item as MS 65 but in reality I have received MS 64. I believe that you are responsible for this mistake. I will keep the coin but you should refund the full price $370.55 to my paypal account XXXXXXXX as part of compensation for fault description. Sorry,but if you disagree with this decision, I have to return the full package back to you. Please transfer money within 24 hours, so we can finish this transaction."
So now, I caved into this buyer's demands--DID WHAT HE TOLD ME TO DO--and now he's the one taking a loss and I'm the bad guy for refusing a return. This is the first I've ever heard of my dealing with a middle man, or, in fact, any of these "facts" about how the transaction went. Besides, I still don't know how $1000 has gotten added to the total since this event happened. It was $10,600.
Edited to add one more point: If the above story is true, I wouldn't think there would be any loss involved if Harry were to resell the coins. After all, he's established that he's a top seller and there's no potential loss in value for items that are quickly relisted.
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ****************************** >>
If the above is to be believed, when he first contacted Jeremy, the Ebay buyer was already aware that his client had discovered the listing error for the coin in question. AND that his client had refused all of the coins. Yet, the Ebay buyer didn't mention any of that in his correspondences with Jeremy. In fact, in his first message, he wrote:
"Dear Sir, Thank you for your package. But I want to notify you that you misled me on one item. You described this item as MS 65 but in reality I have received MS 64. I believe that you are responsible for this mistake. I will keep the coin but you should refund the full price $370.55 to my paypal account XXXXXXXXXXXX as part of compensation for fault description. Sorry,but if you disagree with this decision, I have to return the full package back to you. Please transfer money within 24 hours, so we can finish this transaction. Regards".
Why would he write that (instead of simply returning all of the coins for a full refund) if his new story were true? I don't believe that it is.
Edited to add: I see that Mr. Katz beat me to the punch.
<< <i> I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot.
If that is the case, it is an interesting and unexpected piece of information that should have been made known earlier. Perhaps Jeremy would have done better discussing the situation with the end buyer, not the middle man. Whoever is pulling the strings on this is most unreasonable. >>
Do you really believe this BS? I sure don't.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This douchebag is a piece of work. He's backpedaling and reinventing so fast he's going to give himself a hernia.
Another reason for Jeremy to have been rightfully concerned about accepting the return of $10K of coins:
Given the PITA that the buyer had proven himself to be up to that point, what guarantee was there that the guy would have returned the actual coins purchased, rather than doing a complete bait-and-switch? That would have snowballed things to a whole new level!
Now granted, that's me being a glass-half-empty kinda guy, but as a seller you have to guard yourself against worst-case scenarios...
He knew from the beginning what he was going to do as soon as he saw your mistake. I agree, give him the coin $370. It's less than 5% of the total. Also add up what the total would have been if this guy didn't bid, it might have been $370+ less then the sales price.
Sorry to be a bit of a contrarian here but I can't sit by without adding my 2 cents any longer. I have no dog in this fight and don't know any of the players, I generally dont' buy or sell on ebay, but I am surprised that everyone is so appalled. First, this is by no means the worst thing I've seen on ebay. It's just business, maybe bad business, but just business. If this was the worst thing on ebay, 90% of our problems would be solved. It doesn't involve counterfeits, doctored coins or outright fraud, IMO. Second, the buyer did nothing illegal. He simply abided by the seller's terms. The seller offers a 100% guarantee and refund. The seller made a mistake in his listing (which the buyer certainly should have recognized.) The seller simply took advantage of the seller' mistake. Third, the buyer is guilty of sharp dealing, and I mean that in a negative way. Having recognized a mistake by the seller, he appears to have decided to extract an additional 3-4% out of the deal by way of a counter-offer and a threat of full return. The seller could have rejected it but chose not to for business reasons. I've seen reference to an explanation of the buyer's predicament, and it doesn't make much sense to me, but I don't know all of the facts. However, it seems like buyer simply tried to extract an additional 3-4% from the deal due to a mistake by the seller. Fourth, the seller appears to have acted in a very professional, reasonable way manner throughout the process, and he appears to have acted more reasonably than that buyer, but without knowing every detail, we have to look to the terms of sale, return, etc. According to those terms as I see them, the buyer was within his rights. I've said this before on other threads, but the terms of sale don't ponder the rights and wrongs of things, they look to the 4 corners of the terms of sale. There is a duty of good faith and fair dealing in all deals. But unless buyer had actual knowledge of the mistake in the seller's listing before he bid and decided to use it against the seller, I don't see it as a breach of that duty. Fifth, I don't know the rules on blocking, but I assume that the seller is entitled to block the buyer and to suggest that others do so as well.
<< <i> I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. If that is the case, it is an interesting and unexpected piece of information that should have been made known earlier. Perhaps Jeremy would have done better discussing the situation with the end buyer, not the middle man. Whoever is pulling the strings on this is most unreasonable. >>
Do you really believe this BS? I sure don't. >>
The buyer's newly invented excuse is so incredibly fishy as to merit no believability whatsoever. But for me the most remarkable thing is that this thread on this forum was so effective in getting around that the buyer not only found out about it, but felt obliged to respond!
In this case the buyer is the scumbag. He bought 20 lots (individual lots). He is happy with 19 of them, but is saying he will return the 19 lots he is happy with if he is not given the 20th lot outright. He is holding 19 lots hostage to get the 20th lot for free.
I am not sure how the guarantee was written, but they are usually based on a per lot basis. Just wanting to return 20 lots is reason enough to block the buyer.
This is a case where you are much better off to "fire the customer"
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Basically, the buyer is the type of person who may have received a bruise in an auto accident but will fake a serious neck injury and sue to the full extent of the law to try to take your house, etc. simply because he can. Morals he has never known, dont expect he ever will-------------BigE
I guess if you could prove that the buyer knew that the coin being sold was an MS-64 and decided to bid on it with the intent of extracting concessions from the seller after he won the bid, then the buyer has breached his duty of good faith and fair dealing. But that is a lot of ifs. (The seller would be entitled to his full price for the coin and the buyer would still be entitled to return the other 19 coins under the full refund guarantee.) However, the buyer has stated otherwise.
But from my view, the seller made a mistake and created an ambiguity in the listing, so he is at least initially at fault. The ambiguity is probably obvious or patent. But unless something in the ebay policy says that photos trump descriptions, the correction of the ambiguity is not obvious. Therefore, its still ambiguous. In some settings, a buyer or offeror, in the face of an obvious or patent ambiguity has a duty to ask for a clarification or he assumes the risk, but I don't agree that that is the case here because (1) the buyer said he did not see the photo and (2) the seller never noticed (before bidding ended) the problem or made a correction either. I think I am correct in saying this. In that case, the fault is with the seller and the best the seller can hope for is to prove that there was a mutual mistake. In that situation, the remedy is to undo the deal and return the parties to the status quo before the bid (i.e., a full refund). There are bid settings, for example in bidding on contracts with federal or state governments, where detailed regulations are in place that could alter this analysis and result, but without those rules in place, the best case scenario for the seller is a full refund and since that was offered, it is not extortion.
As I said, I am not being critical of the seller here..I thought he acted reasonably in this sale.
Well, you can talk what is legal and what is prudent in business, which oftentimes is cut throat. There is also right and wrong, and what the guy did was just plain wrong.
Always easy to be critical when it isn't our money.
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
<< <i>Well, you can talk what is legal and what is prudent in business, which oftentimes is cut throat. There is also right and wrong, and what the guy did was just plain wrong.
Always easy to be critical when it isn't our money. >>
2010 W BUFFALO GOLD $50, ONE ONCE OF 0.9999 FINE GOLD
What measurement is an "once" - or was it once .9999 fine gold and is now something else?
Total scumbag, I'm so sorry you and your consignor had to go through all that. I can't say how I'd have handled it, that's something you need to figure out when it happens after weighing all possibilities, as you did. Definitely blocked on 4 accounts.
Have bought and sold on BST, many references available when asked.
If there is a photo included in the listing of a coin offered for sale, how does a buyer say he didn't see the photo?
I think that is what he said. In addition, apparently the seller didn't see the photo either, and because the seller created it, the ambiguity is interpreted against him.
A mistake was made in the written description, do you mean to tell me that the buyer bought said coin off the description and ignored the photo....wow...that is a stretch of the imagination.......probably the ultimate sight unseen buy of the year.
I agree it's a stretch!
Do you just forget that in this situation the buyer is a seasoned ebay buyer as well as a seaoned ebay seller, and he proved that in the actions that he took, to take advantage of a purchase knowing full well he could possibly get away with it. Who would want to lose a $10k sale over $300+, kind a like one last negotiation after the fact.
I didn't forget it, but it doesn't impact the analysis. Both parties are treated at arms length as competent folks. I would not want to lose a 10k sale over $300, but apparently someone was willing to do so and other OPs would have been willing to do so.
Does a photo trump words.well which would you rely on, the numbers 65 or the complete photo of a the holdered coin clearly showing ms64. Why does a bank if in doubt on a check go by the complete writing of the amount written out over the numbers of the amount. And which would you go by if you were the bank. It is all about intent.
I would rely on the photo and I would ask the question. I agree it is all about intent. But intent is one of the more difficult things to prove. So, the seller make a business decision.
Blocked. People are human and mistakes happen. The seller went out of his way to make this right for business reasons as well as to try and make this more then right.
Harrybond1965 is not someone I would care to do business with either buying or selling to.
This is also another reason I have not sold anything on eBay directly for quite some time. There is no balance to arbitrate fairly when something like this happens between buyers and sellers. It is all in favor of the buyer and with the excessive fees eBay charges these days in the neighborhood of 10-12% with everything factored in, the only ones making money are eBay, and extortionist buyers.
Karma, BABY, Karma.... It will come back to him 10 times the trouble he has caused. Jeremy, you did the only thing that you could do. Your business sense is correct and all you can do is let it go. Although you are out the $370, it will make you a better businessman. Chalk it up to experience and let it go. This guy will be no better than he was before he purchased the coins from you, but you are a better man for making it go away. JMHO. -Dan
Now he says he was buying for a customer of his. So now, not only did the buyer not look at the pictures, but also his customer did not look at the pictures. Yeah, I believe that.
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through Guy was getting raked over the coals and I sent a "Hey tool, respond to this" email and he wrote back to me and I posted it. He then asked if I would do it again as he is clearly following the thread.
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn
What a wonderful person our friend Harry "The Grinder" Bond portrays himself to be. Not only is he now a victim in this debacle, but he brings God almighty into this sordid scenario with his blessings for Jeremy etc. This is priceless! His intial email to Jeremy spells out his intention quite succinctly and without any doubt. Obviously a graduate (cum laude) of that venerable institution of higher learning, Screw-U. Needless to say, blocked on both selling accounts.
Question for harry (since he seems to be reading this):
Since it appears the entire 20 lot deal hinged on this one coin, what if you did not win the lot? (you sniped in the last few seconds). Would you have wanted to return the other 19 lots?
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through Guy was getting raked over the coals and I sent a "Hey tool, respond to this" email and he wrote back to me and I posted it. He then asked if I would do it again as he is clearly following the thread.
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn >>
Tell him to join and make his own statements. Maybe he has already been banned from here. That would explain why he doesn't want to do so himself.
The buyer complains of a minor error by the seller but one of his just-completed listings, a proof 1896 Russian Coronation rouble of Nicholas II, reads as follows:
1896 CORONATION SILVER ROUBLE , NGC PF 61 SUPER RARE IN PROOF,ONLY 5 COINS EXIST GREAT INVESTMENT COIN LOOK AT THE PRICE OF PF 62 ON HERITAGE AND YOU WILL BE SURPRISE [sic], AUCTION WILL BE ENDED ON 1/03/2011 THIS IS THE LAST TIME I OFFER THIS COIN ON EBAY I HAVE OFFER FOR THIS COIN AT $5800 BUT I KNOW THIS COIN [sic] VALUE IS MUCH MORE
Not only is he semi-literate but the statement that only 5 are known is nonsense. No one, including the seller, knows how many proofs exist of this coin. That is considerably more misleading than the minor typo made by the seller of the OP.
This coin will be found in his completed listings. It did not sell, despite the misleading statement.
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through Guy was getting raked over the coals and I sent a "Hey tool, respond to this" email and he wrote back to me and I posted it. He then asked if I would do it again as he is clearly following the thread.
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn >>
Tell him to join and make his own statements. Maybe he has already been banned from here. That would explain why he doesn't want to do so himself. >>
If he has been banned, then assisting him to post would be inappropriate.
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this. ******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through Guy was getting raked over the coals and I sent a "Hey tool, respond to this" email and he wrote back to me and I posted it. He then asked if I would do it again as he is clearly following the thread.
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn >>
Tell him to join and make his own statements. Maybe he has already been banned from here. That would explain why he doesn't want to do so himself. >>
If he has been banned, then assisting him to post would be inappropriate. >>
There is nothing, other than speculation, which suggests that the buyer is a banned forum member. There are plenty of other reasons which would account for his not posting here.
Comments
Wondercoin
Best be careful as his grammar sounds like an asian hijacker instead of the bloke he appears to be.
People like this never have any friends in life (they think they do though). They are the ones that no one invites anywhere, no one cares to be around, children never visit after they leave home and eventually die alone. He will answer to a higher power one day.
To the buyer. You should return the coin. That would be the honest thing to do. How would you feel if someone pulled this type of thing on you, over a simple mistake?
Jeremy, I am sorry to hear you have to deal with this guy. I have had nothing but 100% positive experiences with you.
Edited to add:
I find it ironic that Mr. Perfect (harrybond1965) has a typo in both of his current Ebay listings. Even he is not above making an error.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I've seen you "grow" into a man on this forum, and I am very proud of you.
you got to SELL something in order to block a buyer .................
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
******************************
If that is the case, it is an interesting and unexpected piece of information that should have been made known earlier. Perhaps Jeremy would have done better discussing the situation with the end buyer, not the middle man. Whoever is pulling the strings on this is most unreasonable.
<< <i>He asked me to post this
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
****************************** >>
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... what I am about to say is not directed at you but at this pinhead whose messages you are carrying...
In capital letters, harrybond1965 ... B S ... you and your message simply reek of it (and my apologies to all bulls averywhere)
<< <i>I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. >>
Oh really? This was the first email I received after the items were delivered:
"Thank you for your package. But I want to notify you that you misled me on one item. You described this item as MS 65 but in reality I have received MS 64. I believe that you are responsible for this mistake. I will keep the coin but you should refund the full price $370.55 to my paypal account XXXXXXXX as part of compensation for fault description. Sorry,but if you disagree with this decision, I have to return the full package back to you. Please transfer money within 24 hours, so we can finish this transaction."
So now, I caved into this buyer's demands--DID WHAT HE TOLD ME TO DO--and now he's the one taking a loss and I'm the bad guy for refusing a return. This is the first I've ever heard of my dealing with a middle man, or, in fact, any of these "facts" about how the transaction went. Besides, I still don't know how $1000 has gotten added to the total since this event happened. It was $10,600.
Edited to add one more point: If the above story is true, I wouldn't think there would be any loss involved if Harry were to resell the coins. After all, he's established that he's a top seller and there's no potential loss in value for items that are quickly relisted.
<< <i>He asked me to post this
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
****************************** >>
If the above is to be believed, when he first contacted Jeremy, the Ebay buyer was already aware that his client had discovered the listing error for the coin in question. AND that his client had refused all of the coins. Yet, the Ebay buyer didn't mention any of that in his correspondences with Jeremy. In fact, in his first message, he wrote:
"Dear Sir,
Thank you for your package. But I want to notify you that you misled me on one item. You described this item as MS 65 but in reality I have received MS 64. I believe that you are responsible for this mistake. I will keep the coin but you should refund the full price $370.55 to my paypal account XXXXXXXXXXXX as part of compensation for fault description. Sorry,but if you disagree with this decision, I have to return the full package back to you. Please transfer money within 24 hours, so we can finish this transaction.
Regards".
Why would he write that (instead of simply returning all of the coins for a full refund) if his new story were true? I don't believe that it is.
Edited to add: I see that Mr. Katz beat me to the punch.
<< <i> I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot.
If that is the case, it is an interesting and unexpected piece of information that should have been made known earlier. Perhaps Jeremy would have done better discussing the situation with the end buyer, not the middle man. Whoever is pulling the strings on this is most unreasonable. >>
Do you really believe this BS? I sure don't.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Frankly, since this fellow sounds Russian and bought a bunch of Russion stuff and I don't sell Russian stuff, I was going to ignore this thread.
But then he opened his mouth.
Getting a coin for free, under the guise of negative feedback, is just wrong on so many counts.
Thank you for sharing this unfortunate experience to uncover yet another PITA eBay buyer.
The name is LEE!
Another reason for Jeremy to have been rightfully concerned about accepting the return of $10K of coins:
Given the PITA that the buyer had proven himself to be up to that point, what guarantee was there that the guy would have returned the actual coins purchased, rather than doing a complete bait-and-switch? That would have snowballed things to a whole new level!
Now granted, that's me being a glass-half-empty kinda guy, but as a seller you have to guard yourself against worst-case scenarios...
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
First, this is by no means the worst thing I've seen on ebay. It's just business, maybe bad business, but just business. If this was the worst thing on ebay, 90% of our problems would be solved. It doesn't involve counterfeits, doctored coins or outright fraud, IMO.
Second, the buyer did nothing illegal. He simply abided by the seller's terms. The seller offers a 100% guarantee and refund. The seller made a mistake in his listing (which the buyer certainly should have recognized.) The seller simply took advantage of the seller' mistake.
Third, the buyer is guilty of sharp dealing, and I mean that in a negative way. Having recognized a mistake by the seller, he appears to have decided to extract an additional 3-4% out of the deal by way of a counter-offer and a threat of full return. The seller could have rejected it but chose not to for business reasons. I've seen reference to an explanation of the buyer's predicament, and it doesn't make much sense to me, but I don't know all of the facts. However, it seems like buyer simply tried to extract an additional 3-4% from the deal due to a mistake by the seller.
Fourth, the seller appears to have acted in a very professional, reasonable way manner throughout the process, and he appears to have acted more reasonably than that buyer, but without knowing every detail, we have to look to the terms of sale, return, etc. According to those terms as I see them, the buyer was within his rights. I've said this before on other threads, but the terms of sale don't ponder the rights and wrongs of things, they look to the 4 corners of the terms of sale. There is a duty of good faith and fair dealing in all deals. But unless buyer had actual knowledge of the mistake in the seller's listing before he bid and decided to use it against the seller, I don't see it as a breach of that duty.
Fifth, I don't know the rules on blocking, but I assume that the seller is entitled to block the buyer and to suggest that others do so as well.
Tom
Blocked
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
<< <i>
<< <i> I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. If that is the case, it is an interesting and unexpected piece of information that should have been made known earlier. Perhaps Jeremy would have done better discussing the situation with the end buyer, not the middle man. Whoever is pulling the strings on this is most unreasonable. >>
Do you really believe this BS? I sure don't. >>
The buyer's newly invented excuse is so incredibly fishy as to merit no believability whatsoever. But for me the most remarkable thing is that this thread on this forum was so effective in getting around that the buyer not only found out about it, but felt obliged to respond!
I am not sure how the guarantee was written, but they are usually based on a per lot basis. Just wanting to return 20 lots is reason enough to block the buyer.
This is a case where you are much better off to "fire the customer"
But from my view, the seller made a mistake and created an ambiguity in the listing, so he is at least initially at fault. The ambiguity is probably obvious or patent. But unless something in the ebay policy says that photos trump descriptions, the correction of the ambiguity is not obvious. Therefore, its still ambiguous. In some settings, a buyer or offeror, in the face of an obvious or patent ambiguity has a duty to ask for a clarification or he assumes the risk, but I don't agree that that is the case here because (1) the buyer said he did not see the photo and (2) the seller never noticed (before bidding ended) the problem or made a correction either. I think I am correct in saying this. In that case, the fault is with the seller and the best the seller can hope for is to prove that there was a mutual mistake. In that situation, the remedy is to undo the deal and return the parties to the status quo before the bid (i.e., a full refund). There are bid settings, for example in bidding on contracts with federal or state governments, where detailed regulations are in place that could alter this analysis and result, but without those rules in place, the best case scenario for the seller is a full refund and since that was offered, it is not extortion.
As I said, I am not being critical of the seller here..I thought he acted reasonably in this sale.
edited for typo
Tom
Always easy to be critical when it isn't our money.
<< <i>Well, you can talk what is legal and what is prudent in business, which oftentimes is cut throat. There is also right and wrong, and what the guy did was just plain wrong.
Always easy to be critical when it isn't our money. >>
I agree with this statement.
Tom
<< <i>He is holding 19 lots hostage to get the 20th lot for free. >>
This.
Buyer is a douchebag.
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
<< <i>He is also a seller:
his listings >>
Not only is he a seller, but also makes typos:
2010 W BUFFALO GOLD $50, ONE ONCE OF 0.9999 FINE GOLD
What measurement is an "once" - or was it once .9999 fine gold and is now something else?
Total scumbag, I'm so sorry you and your consignor had to go through all that. I can't say how I'd have handled it, that's something you need to figure out when it happens after weighing all possibilities, as you did. Definitely blocked on 4 accounts.
I think that is what he said. In addition, apparently the seller didn't see the photo either, and because the seller created it, the ambiguity is interpreted against him.
A mistake was made in the written description, do you mean to tell me that the buyer bought said coin off the description and ignored the photo....wow...that is a stretch of the imagination.......probably the ultimate sight unseen buy of the year.
I agree it's a stretch!
Do you just forget that in this situation the buyer is a seasoned ebay buyer as well as a seaoned ebay seller, and he proved that in the actions that he took, to take advantage of a purchase knowing full well he could possibly get away with it. Who would want to lose a $10k sale over $300+, kind a like one last negotiation after the fact.
I didn't forget it, but it doesn't impact the analysis. Both parties are treated at arms length as competent folks. I would not want to lose a 10k sale over $300, but apparently someone was willing to do so and other OPs would have been willing to do so.
Does a photo trump words.well which would you rely on, the numbers 65 or the complete photo of a the holdered coin clearly showing ms64. Why does a bank if in doubt on a check go by the complete writing of the amount written out over the numbers of the amount. And which would you go by if you were the bank. It is all about intent.
I would rely on the photo and I would ask the question. I agree it is all about intent. But intent is one of the more difficult things to prove. So, the seller make a business decision.
Tom
Russ, NCNE
Harrybond1965 is not someone I would care to do business with either buying or selling to.
This is also another reason I have not sold anything on eBay directly for quite some time. There is no balance to arbitrate fairly when something like this happens between buyers and sellers. It is all in favor of the buyer and with the excessive fees eBay charges these days in the neighborhood of 10-12% with everything factored in, the only ones making money are eBay, and extortionist buyers.
Website-Americana Rare Coin Inc
<< <i>This buyer should stop trying to tell his side of the story. With each attempt, he has simply made himself look even worse.
Russ, NCNE >>
I agree with the second sentence above, but not the first. The buyer should, by all means, continue to tell his side.
Now he says he was buying for a customer of his. So now, not only did the buyer not look at the pictures, but also his customer did not look at the pictures.
Yeah, I believe that.
<< <i>He asked me to post this
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn
This is priceless! His intial email to Jeremy spells out his intention quite succinctly and without any doubt. Obviously a graduate (cum laude) of that venerable institution of higher learning, Screw-U.
Needless to say, blocked on both selling accounts.
Since it appears the entire 20 lot deal hinged on this one coin, what if you did not win the lot? (you sniped in the last few seconds). Would you have wanted to return the other 19 lots?
<< <i>
<< <i>He asked me to post this
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn >>
Tell him to join and make his own statements.
Maybe he has already been banned from here. That would explain why he doesn't want to do so himself.
a proof 1896 Russian Coronation rouble of Nicholas II, reads as follows:
1896 CORONATION SILVER ROUBLE , NGC PF 61
SUPER RARE IN PROOF,ONLY 5 COINS EXIST
GREAT INVESTMENT COIN
LOOK AT THE PRICE OF PF 62 ON HERITAGE AND YOU WILL BE SURPRISE [sic], AUCTION WILL BE ENDED ON 1/03/2011
THIS IS THE LAST TIME I OFFER THIS COIN ON EBAY
I HAVE OFFER FOR THIS COIN AT $5800 BUT I KNOW THIS COIN [sic] VALUE IS MUCH MORE
Not only is he semi-literate but the statement that only 5 are known is nonsense. No one,
including the seller, knows how many proofs exist of this coin. That is considerably more
misleading than the minor typo made by the seller of the OP.
This coin will be found in his completed listings. It did not sell, despite the misleading statement.
It sickens me that there are people in this world like this character.
THIEF.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>He asked me to post this
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn >>
Tell him to join and make his own statements.
Maybe he has already been banned from here. That would explain why he doesn't want to do so himself. >>
If he has been banned, then assisting him to post would be inappropriate.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>He asked me to post this
*************Thank you for posting my e-mail on the forum. I hope you will continue to do so. I never checked the grade for this coin. I was ask by my customer to buy some coins on e-bay. He gave me e-bay number and I bought those coins. When I received the coins and brought them to him, he discovered the mistake and refused to buy the whole lot. I am in the deep hole now, lost my own $11,600. Sounds good? I offered Jeremy to return the whole lot, but he refused. Offered me $370 for the coin. Excuse me. But I have no choice to except it. Now I sitting in the hole $11600.00 minus $370.00. Not a bad deal. I am offereng now to Jeremy to return the whole lot. He can keep 5% of the purchase. It is my gift to him. Not a bad deal $500.00. How many of you can put your real name on ebay? Everybody hiding behind the nick names. I did it because my priority is full custom satisfaction and nothing to hide. Shame on you who called me jerk, a$$head and so far and so on. Pray on your guy, Jeremy Katz, and I hope the god will bless you for this.
******************************
crypto --- I realize you are simply the messenger here... not sure why you have chosen to do so... that is something only you can really know... >>
Ouch paper cut sting, Mear men can not deside who the high & mighty chose to speak through
Think of it this way, it's butter for your popcorn >>
Tell him to join and make his own statements.
Maybe he has already been banned from here. That would explain why he doesn't want to do so himself. >>
If he has been banned, then assisting him to post would be inappropriate. >>
There is nothing, other than speculation, which suggests that the buyer is a banned forum member. There are plenty of other reasons which would account for his not posting here.