<< <i>Unemployment is based upon the number of pepole who are actively looking for work, regardless of collecting unemplolyment. >>
I think you are right, that I was wrong. My apologies. I quoted a source that was wrong......not that that makes me right, I just don't want anyone to think I intentionally said something to mislead anyone.
Having said that, the number though that is often given by the media is "the number of claims for unemployment filed in month x"
<< <i>Why would you only want to look at commodity prices for measuring inflation anyway. Do you purchase no services? Do you not pay housing expenses? >>
I didn't say that inflation can be determined by looking only at commodity prices. I suggested that a person look at commodity prices as an indicator that inflation isn't 1.1%.
By the way, I suspect that wages are not changing all that much with the exception of minimum wage going up recently. Costs for housing is probably down over the past few years because of so many foreclosures lower home values (also morgage rates are very low now for those lucky few who can now qualify for a loan) however foreclosures have probably driven demand for apartments up, and also prices. Just my guess.
Hard to say what will happen. Like as if there is anybody here who has a history of successfully divining the future? This country has seen much better days. Will we remain the most prosperous country ever? Hard to say. Many think that big business has insured their future, at the american worker's expense. We've allowed approx 600 people to totally screw up the lives of over 300,000,000. Keep listening to the prognosticators. They all saw this crap coming too? Not! Give me a break.
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
<< <i>Adrian, First of all I did not say you are worried about it...........Define "better off" >>
Two scenarios....TDN (TradeDollarNut) and his hypothetical brother, CDN (Certificate of Deposit Nut)
TDN buys 10 million dollars worth of investment quality rare coins, CDN buys 10 million dollars worth of 5 year certificates of deposit from his bank.
Today, the value of the coins and the CDs are enough for a couple to retire on.
Sometime between now and five years from now hyperinflation hits the dollar.
Five years from now, TDNs rare coins are worth quadrillions of dollars (and even though the dollar is hyperinflated, the coins are worth enough, still for a couple to retire on - at least) and CDNs certificates of depost are worth less than 11 million dollars and a new blender is 10 million dollars, albeit an Oster.
TDN is better off because he can still look forward to retirment and spending 30 hours a week cruising the PCGS message board.
CDN is not better off because he can only afford a blender even though it's a good one. Also, CDN's wife is good friends with TDN's wife. CDN's wife will not stop harping on CDN's brilliant decision to buy CDs when TDN sent him and his wife a link to this thread five years earlier whereupon CDN pooh poohed the idea of buying rare coins. CDN's only salvation is that he has to go off to work as a greeter at Walmart each day for the rest of his life and so can get away from his nagging wife.
<< <i>The US economy, although flawed, is the envy of the world and will continue to be the dominant reserve currency for the foreseeable future. >>
My opinion is that this is generally the belief possessed by most Americans who are my father's age, in their 70s. They had great lives, the government took care of their problems, and they never really saw the Great depression.
(I come from a different vantage point. I've had a little exposure to second hand economic and political tumult. My mother grew up in Munich, Germany, she was born in 1940. My grandfather spent 5 years in a Russian prison camp. My second wife's family escaped Castro in 1961. Also, I have traveled quite a bit, having seen all 50 states and 47 countries. I've seen horrific poverty.)
<< <i>The US economy, although flawed, is the envy of the world and will continue to be the dominant reserve currency for the foreseeable future. >>
My opinion is that this is generally the belief possessed by most Americans who are my father's age, in their 70s. They had great lives, the government took care of their problems, and they never really saw the Great depression.
(I come from a different vantage point. Incidentally, I've had a little exposure to second hand economic and political tumult. My mother grew up in Munich, Germany, she was born in 1940. My grandfather spent 5 years in a Russian prison camp. My second wife's family escaped Castro in 1961. Also, I have traveled quite a bit, having seen all 50 states and 47 countries. I've seen horrific poverty.) >>
You seem to prove my point. Basically, everywhere else is worse than here. That is why the US will not lose its status as the worlds preferred reserve currency. The dollar will not collapse relative to other currencies, because we are the most stable economy in the world, bar none.
OK I will buy that but what you mean is better of financially, not necessary better off in other areas of ones life. Some are born into this world as privileged white males and are better off before they hit the ground. Some are not.
<< <i>OK I will buy that but what you mean is better of financially, not necessary better off in other areas of ones life. Some are born into this world as privileged white males and are better off before they hit the ground. Some are not. >>
Yes, that is true and buying rare coins will never make you white or privileged.
I don't see a major collapse in the USD because I don't see a stronger alternative. I have to believe there will be some fairly significant inflation over the years because we continue to print $ and spend them. So I see Gold becoming something of a reserve currency. That implies lower grade gold, platinum and silver coins will continue to benefit from rising commodity prices. Even circulated nickels and copper cents could double in price (be worth twice face value).
If I'm wrong and there is a rapid and wrenching collapse of the US Dollar it would cause owners of US Dollars pain. The more you own the more pain. You might decide you don't want to buy luxuries any more, perhaps preferring farm land or something else of substance. I don't think the high end coin market will do well in those circumstances.
And, how old are you, abitofthisabitofthat? Just curious. >>
We are the most stable country, as far as being used as a reseve currency by any major world economy. I stand by that statement. The article that you googled and pulled on this topic is pretty nonsensical as far as reserve currencies are concerned. The top 10 in the article (which is from 2008) are: 1 Vatican 2 Sweden 3 Luxembourg 4 Monaco 5 Gibraltar 6 San Marino 7 Liechtenstein 8 UK 9 Netherlands 10 Ireland
Your citing this article as defense of your premise of the collapse of the dollar is actually pretty silly.
For the record, I am 41. I also have a good bit of experience in economics, finance, and investing.
<< <i>OK I will buy that but what you mean is better of financially, not necessary better off in other areas of ones life. Some are born into this world as privileged white males and are better off before they hit the ground. Some are not. >>
I didn't mean to be deflective. What would you like me to address?
<< <i>Your citing this article as defense of your premise of the collapse of the dollar is actually pretty silly. >>
I didn't cite it as a defense of my premise that the dollar will collapse. I cited it because you said that our country is the most economically stable. The article supports a different contention. If it had listed the US as second, I wouldn't have quoted it.
But it lists Spain....that was recently in the news because of it's economic problems....as 26th, just two below us.
And is states, Realone: "A one-year investigation and analysis of 235 countries by Jane's Information Services..."
<< <i>We have seen hyperinflation in other countries, but not here and here is different than over there one must remember that. So sure inflation is a big possibility as always, hyper here compared to over there would be substantially less and thus couldn't be defined as hyper in the general sense. Things just aren't that simple to define it like what we have seen in other countries. >>
We have had hyperinflation here in the US before. This is from Wikipedia:
During the Revolutionary War, the Continental Congress authorized the printing of paper currency called continental currency. These easily counterfeited notes depreciated rapidly, giving rise to the expression "not worth a continental." During the U.S. Civil War, between January 1861 and April 1865, the Lerner Commodity Price Index of leading cities in the eastern Confederacy states increased from 100 to over 9,000. As the Civil War dragged on, the Confederate States of America dollar had less and less value, until it was almost worthless by the last few months of the war.
Sure....I put a link up above to a site....but here goes:
In 1836, the steam coining press was first used. So, all coins made before that were essentially hand made. More rustic.....but more importantly, fewer made.
look at the values of commodities during the end of the civil war - in the 1860's and then do an annual inflation rate for the last 150 years
US prices were contained in a range from 1800-1933, with no net change from start to finish. A better analysis of commodity and price inflation should probably be done from 1933 or even August 1971 (off the gold standard). The most damage has been done in the past 50 yrs.
We've allowed approx 600 people to totally screw up the lives of over 300,000,000. Keep listening to the prognosticators. They all saw this crap coming too? Not! Give me a break.
Yeah, plenty of prognosticators saw this coming back in the 1990's. And there was no shortage of them openly professing their views by around 2002-2004 (Ron Paul, Peter Schiff and dozens like them). Heck, even the amateur forum gang had their own thread in spring 2004 that discussed these very topics (collapse of real estate, crushing debts, entitlements and otc derivatives, major bank failures, pension fund failures, commodity prices taking off, etc.).
It's only a matter of when the dollar and it's sister fiat currencies hit the basement floor. That's what they all do. But it should take years or decades for that to happen. Today the dollar buys only 5% of goods vs a 1913 dollar. One can't determine how the fiat currencies are doing unless they are compared to something tangible that has maintained value over history. Gold is near the top of that list. So while the US Dollar index says the dollar has only lost 33% of it's value since 2001 (compared to the Euro and 5 other currencies), it has lost over 81% of its value compared to gold. All currencies are showing this general trend over the past 5-10 yrs. The dollar still holds its title as world's reserve currency, but emerging nations have been finding ways to work around it by locking in resource trades in other currencies. That trend is increasing. I see that Ireland and Iceland are ranked above the US in that stability survey. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me unless having nothing and formally declaring bankruptcy/default automatically makes one stable.
Yes please explain how someone with no money would be interested in and can buy rare coins on a regular basis...
I'm going to assume that the person in question has at least 10 years to live and is in good health but has no skills and no job and is not a teenager living at home with mom and dad.
This is what I would do (worst case scenario):
First, if that person is homeless, he has to get a sign that says "Anything Helps". The bigger the sign, the better.
Then, that person has to work at panhandling like it's a full time job with overtime. No less than 60 hours per week. In a good corner, you should be able to make $800 a week. I'll assume they don't pay taxes on the money. Wear dirty clothes.
Spend no more than half of that on living expenses, one-quarter if you can. Save the rest of the money.
Buy books on self esteem and charisma. Read them. I like "The Laws of Chrisma" by Mortensen. You're never going to amount to anything if you don't believe in yourself. And, even Helen Keller who was blind and deaf make a success out of her life, so, there are no excuses permitted. You have to work on your self esteem until it gets there.
Buy books on business and entreprenueralism (sp?) While you're panhandling, think up some business ideas. Try to meet successful people in your spare time and go over your business ideas with them. Don't wear dirty clothes.
Once you have been working (panhandling) about a year, you should have saved up at least $10,000. Start the business most likely to succeed. If it succeeds, you're on your way to being known by your first name at Heritage Auctions. If it doesn't succeed, go back to panhandling and repeat.
unless having nothing and formally declaring bankruptcy/default automatically makes one stable.
I've heard that after you've taken bankruptcy, because you no longer have any debts, credit card companies are more likely to give you a credit card. (And no, I've never taken bankrupcy, I'm sure that if I had, someone would have revealed it on these boards.)
It's only a matter of when the dollar and it's sister fiat currencies hit the basement floor. That's what they all do. Today the dollar buys only 5% of goods vs a 1913 dollar. One can't determine how the fiat currencies are doing unless they are compared to something tangible that has maintained value over history. Gold is near the top of that list. So while the US Dollar index says the dollar has only lost 33% of it's value since 2001
Yes, I totally agree that it is just a matter of time.........and it's nice to have someone agree with me who has a reputation for clear thinking.
Wow, the dollar has lost 33% in the last 10 years? Incredible.
Wow, the dollar has lost 33% in the last 10 years? Incredible.
Not so incredible really. When it first bottomed in March 2008 it had lost 39% of its value. But that's only comparing unbacked paper to unbacked paper or "air" to "air." So while it has "appeared" to have gained 9% in value against other fiat in the past 33 months (USDX up from 74 to 81), it has lost an additional 25% vs. gold ($1033 to $1368). Gold would have to fall to $1125 to even things out again from March 2008.
The dollar has been debased by 95% over the past 100 hundred years as RR pointed out. It' s been a slow drip as designed............... to go undetected. The final purge could be exacerbated by any number of triggers. Even a well meaning" QE3, 4 or 5.
Anytime the word "collapse" is used in conjunction with the dollar or the US in general it is automatically dismissed as folly. As if we are impervious to such things, I guess the bigger they are the harder they fall does not apply to us.
Fact- the dollar is currently the world reserve currency.
Fact- the dollar can be replaced as the top world reserve currency. To think that this has not been discussed amongst various nations would be very ostrich-like. Gold, the Yen and the Swiss Franc have been defacto alternatives as of late. Could a basket of currencies (including the dollar) /gold replace the singularity of the dollar in the world markert when it comes pricing oil etc? It doesn't seem like a remote possibility. There was a time in the 18th and 19th century when nobody would believe that the British Sterling would ever be replaced as the top reserve currency as they dominated world commerce and the seas. Oddly enough the sterling was eventually replaced by the upstart US dollar. Surely most will just dismiss that the dollar could never follow the same path just because and it will remain the currency folcrum forever on the world stage.
In a hyper-inflation scenario a gem walker may buy you a loaf of bread instead of the $400 paper dollars that maybe necessary. A 1795 half dollar may buy you a new roof or maybe a car.
Most will dismiss this as even a remote possibility. Carry on...........MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I'm going to assume that the person in question has at least 10 years to live and is in good health but has no skills and no job and is not a teenager living at home with mom and dad. This is what I would do (worst case scenario): First, if that person is homeless, he has to get a sign that says "Anything Helps". The bigger the sign, the better. Then, that person has to work at panhandling like it's a full time job with overtime. No less than 60 hours per week. In a good corner, you should be able to make $800 a week. I'll assume they don't pay taxes on the money. Wear dirty clothes. Spend no more than half of that on living expenses, one-quarter if you can. Save the rest of the money. Buy books on self esteem and charisma. Read them. I like "The Laws of Chrisma" by Mortensen. You're never going to amount to anything if you don't believe in yourself. And, even Helen Keller who was blind and deaf make a success out of her life, so, there are no excuses permitted. You have to work on your self esteem until it gets there. Buy books on business and entreprenueralism (sp?) While you're panhandling, think up some business ideas. Try to meet successful people in your spare time and go over your business ideas with them. Don't wear dirty clothes. Once you have been working (panhandling) about a year, you should have saved up at least $10,000. Start the business most likely to succeed. If it succeeds, you're on your way to being known by your first name at Heritage Auctions. If it doesn't succeed, go back to panhandling and repeat. >>
Ha ha LOL, you know Helen Keller is not the only deaf and blind persons that have been in the world and they are not all famous, so Helen Keller was a rare individual who also had a very persistent teacher. Most pan handlers do not even have a place to get mail, so they cannot get a book or tape or an auction winning sent to them. Anyway fun answer. My take on you is that you do worry a lot, not now maybe but perhaps before..... maybe fear and worry drove you to CR, who knows. I think you worry so much that you are not even aware of it. At any rate it is none of my business.....
<< <i>The US economy, although flawed, is the envy of the world and will continue to be the dominant reserve currency for the foreseeable future. >>
My opinion is that this is generally the belief possessed by most Americans who are my father's age, in their 70s. They had great lives, the government took care of their problems, and they never really saw the Great depression.
(I come from a different vantage point. I've had a little exposure to second hand economic and political tumult. My mother grew up in Munich, Germany, she was born in 1940. My grandfather spent 5 years in a Russian prison camp. My second wife's family escaped Castro in 1961. Also, I have traveled quite a bit, having seen all 50 states and 47 countries. I've seen horrific poverty.) >>
47 countries..? Well what do you think of the potential for incredible foreign coins?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>....Interestingly....a year or so ago a dollar bought you 575 Costa Rican Colones....now it buys 516 colones. That isn't a collapse but when the dollar buys 100 colones, and one fifth of the Euros that it buys now and one fifth of the Yuan that it buys now, I'd call that a collapse.
Some might also call it hyperinflation. >>
At the tender age of 17, I was an exchange student in Costa Rica--and returned to USA during their summer break, December 1980. John Lennon had just been killed.
At the bank, $1 got you 8-- OCHO --colones; on the street, $1 for 14 colones (the locals tried to discourage use of the black market but I did succumb a couple of times, especially when they threw in a couple extra tacos--I mean REAL tacos). This was in la Alajuela, coffee bean country-- poor, but good folk overall. I picked beans all day--quality red beans, no green beans -hehe- and would make 14 to 16 colones. Yep, about $2/day. The 'fast' pickers would only get 1/2 the pay because of the high number of green beans mixed in their bags, and sometimes the foreman (quality control guy) would just dump their bag and yell at them/ no pay either.
I could eat like a pig for 4 to 6 colones/ day; usually half that and some amazing fresh produce, along with the all the black beans and rice you wanted.
516 colones per $1 now!! WOW, some major 'adjustment' must have gone on during last the last 30 years .... what do we call that again?
edited to get rid of italics
Do your best to avoid circular arguments, as it will help you reason better, because better reasoning is often a result of avoiding circular arguments.
<< <i>The dollar has been debased by 95% over the past 100 hundred years as RR pointed out. It' s been a slow drip as designed............... to go undetected. The final purge could be exacerbated by any number of triggers. Even a well meaning" QE3, 4 or 5.
Anytime the word "collapse" is used in conjunction with the dollar or the US in general it is automatically dismissed as folly. As if we are impervious to such things, I guess the bigger they are the harder they fall does not apply to us.
Fact- the dollar is currently the world reserve currency.
Fact- the dollar can be replaced as the top world reserve currency. To think that this has not been discussed amongst various nations would be very ostrich-like. Gold, the Yen and the Swiss Franc have been defacto alternatives as of late. Could a basket of currencies (including the dollar) /gold replace the singularity of the dollar in the world markert when it comes pricing oil etc? It doesn't seem like a remote possibility. There was a time in the 18th and 19th century when nobody would believe that the British Sterling would ever be replaced as the top reserve currency as they dominated world commerce and the seas. Oddly enough the sterling was eventually replaced by the upstart US dollar. Surely most will just dismiss that the dollar could never follow the same path just because and it will remain the currency folcrum forever on the world stage.
In a hyper-inflation scenario a gem walker may buy you a loaf of bread instead of the $400 paper dollars that maybe necessary. A 1795 half dollar may buy you a new roof or maybe a car.
Most will dismiss this as even a remote possibility. Carry on...........MJ >>
For the record, I agree that the dollar could be replaced as reserve currency of choice, at some point in the future, by a basket of currencies. In fact, I think it is highly likely. However, it is most likely quite far away, and even then the dollar will be the largest component of the basket. It will be a very gradual, orderly process that will in no way resemble anything that could be described as a collapse.
<<. I see that Ireland and Iceland are ranked above the US in that stability survey. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me unless having nothing and formally declaring bankruptcy/default automatically makes one stable.>>
Sorry, but RR makes much more sense than the snake to me. Trying to say someone can make $800 bucks working 60 hours a week holding a sign then spending it wisely and saving some is, well, not connected with reality. Any list with bankrupt Ireland and Iceland as more stable than the largest economy in the world was written by people who I'd like to talk to. I'm sure I could sell them something they value more than I do.
A basket of currencies that are fully, 100%-convertable into electronic keystrokes.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
If you're selling red coffee beans in Costa Rica, who you gonna believe - the guy with imaginary paper money or the guy with some nice silver coins in hand?
At some point, the trust in the currency is only as good as the promises behind it.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>How is the upcoming collapse in the U.S. Dollar going to affect prices of rare US coins? >>
It's timed to coinside with a meteror hitting North America and the end of the Republic.
Seriously, what can you do? Smart money has hedged agaist the US dollar but you can only hedge so much before creating excess risk. It's best to stradle the market and wait for some stability.
It is not that life is short, but that you are dead for so very long.
<< <i>Sure....I put a link up above to a site....but here goes:
In 1836, the steam coining press was first used. So, all coins made before that were essentially hand made. More rustic.....but more importantly, fewer made.
I agree with your reasoning but not with your date range. Based upon my short experience with bust half dimes and bus dimes the screw press was used on the entire series which is through 1837. >>
I consider coins made using a screw press to be "hand made". The only things that you can make purely with your hands are things like chocolate chip cookies (mmmmm.......cookies.....) and those are not a good substitute for metal coins. Yet.
"Excuse me....how many cookies are you guys getting for a gallon of diesel?"
(This is why I say that the collapse of the U.S. Dollar is inevitable. All countries that have hyperinflated their currency did it by spending money to prevent bankruptcy.....which is the prevailing "wisdom" of the US.
And, that is why I way that rare coins are going to skyrocket within the next few years.)
One can't determine how the fiat currencies are doing unless they are compared to something tangible that has maintained value over history. Gold is near the top of that list. So while the US Dollar index says the dollar has only lost 33% of it's value since 2001 (compared to the Euro and 5 other currencies), it has lost over 81% of its value compared to gold. All currencies are showing this general trend over the past 5-10 yrs.
While true mathematically and factually, I think you are assuming all the world feels that way. I think only gold-standard enthusiasts think this way.
Example - What if, in 2025, looking back to 2011, they write that gold and silver were in a speculative bubble during this time. Is the dollar really weaker overall because gold and silver are way, way up? Why not compare the dollar and other currencies to oil, which is a huge component to inflation.
While true mathematically and factually, I think you are assuming all the world feels that way. I think only gold-standard enthusiasts think this way.
Example - What if, in 2025, looking back to 2011, they write that gold and silver were in a speculative bubble during this time. Is the dollar really weaker overall because gold and silver are way, way up? Why not compare the dollar and other currencies to oil, which is a huge component to inflation.
Yes, all the world probably feels that the value of currencies should be compared to what tangible goods they can buy from it. I know they aren't thinking how many US dollars can they get for their Peso's or Francs. I didn't specify gold as the only choice, but one near the top of the list. One would also see oil, copper, useful farm land, selective RE, and some softs or grains near the top of that list. In 2025 the entire nation will look back on 1971 to 2011 and realize the dollar and TBonds were the 2 biggest speculative bubbles. Commodities have just adjusted their prices to mirror those bubbles. Yes, the dollar is really weaker because it has lost ground to gold and silver. It's lost even more ground to commodities in general, including oil. The gold and oil charts are quite similar. Use the CCI or CRB indicies, the results would be similar. Gold has been well "managed" and shows the dollar in a better light than many other commodities would.
What I have never understood is that if the value of a commodity goes up and that commodity is valued in a currency that has gone down in value it is actually worth the same or less not more. So no one is better off even if it is sold. The only benefit besides enjoying owning the commodity I can see is that it will hold it value over time.
okay, first, the OP question is like asking, "how will the upcoming meteor impact affect prices of white truffles?"
it presumes something very unlikely, but if it were to occur, the second part of the question is mostly irrelevent to the big picture as a result of the first.
second, such questions are far too large to be addressed in a pithy reply.
lots of these threads here and on the PM forum discuss "the economy" which is a lot like saying "the weather"
"how's the US economy?" is as usless a question as saying "how's the US weather?"
Well, it's cool and partly sunny here in Southern California, today.
The creation of money by governments allows governments to continue whatever their social engineering goals might be. A stable currency promotes stable value systems, and that is clearly not the design that we have seen.
Utilizing a basket of currencies to calibrate a single currency's value is simply socialism lite. We are already seeing the result of what the use of "a basket of currencies" entails. Witness Iceland and Greece vis a vis the Euro. More to come.
Hard money guys are always painted by the established banking system and their government pawns as being nut jobs. There is a reason for that.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
The only thing keeping it afloat is that people around the world are forced to accept it (& buy bonds in it) for trade since it has for a long time been the reserve currency of the world. But that will probably change before the end of this year.
China and Russia have already abandoned the dollar as their common currency of trade!
First, the Euro will collapse, then shortly within a couple of weeks, so will the dollar in Weimar Republic style.
I would not be saving my money in banks either in preparation for this. You will not be able to get it out of the bank anyways as the mass of people will be rushing the bank and FDIC is way under funded to cover the looses when the banks start to fold over.
Adrian, here's a good resource of info if you want to know how to prepare for the certain chaos ahead for this country due to the criminal activity of the large centralized banks and their giant ponzi scheme of trading paper for the world. http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1011PSIENDVD/PPSILC42/PR
And Adrian if you don't already know - you should look into this information on the banking system.
Yes, no matter what "the economy" is doing, if you're homeless it's not doing so well in the corner of the world that matters to you.
However, my opinion is that just like most people will tell you generally that food from McDonad's isn't good for you, the US economy is also not too good.
Finally, while I'm all for pithy comments there are times when something more is expected, desired and appropriate. I certainly think many comments made in this thread have been insightful (and at least one, inciteful).
<< <i>Thanks, Rob790. Very useful. The truth about the Wizard of Oz......I did not know that....silver instead of ruby slippers on the yellow brick road. >>
Funny how the world is different than we ever were told. The Wizard of Oz is a story of international criminal bankers and there are lots of hidden meanings in it's story.
Rubies are a lot more flashy than silver for the silver screen, call it artistic license.
I don't know whether you are very uninformed on these matters, just trying to stir people up, or both. As TDN wrote, the Euro is far worse off than the $, the Pound isn't doing very well, either. I have degrees in these matters and deal with them all of the time.
If you think the dollar will collapse, you should sell everthing you own, buy gold and enough freeze dried food to last you for the rest of your life.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
If "the dollar" or "the economy" were to "collapse," gold and rare coins would be next to useless, and freeze dried food will only last for so long as your aim and ammo holds out..
ever see "Night of the living Dead" or, more recently, "Resident Evil"?
mobs of hungry, desperate people do not "barter", they "take"
It's a little concerning that some folks with a pile of metal (on the internet, not necessarily HERE at CU ) seem to kind of "hope" for a SHTF scenario, so they will be able to profit from it
EDIT: in reading some of the replies, it seems by the word "collapse", most folks including the OP mean "adjust to new market conditions", in which case, i think the answer to the question is,
"if the US dollar declines in value in relation to other assets, including rare coins, the prices of those assets measured in terms of US dollars will RISE"
<< <i>If you think the dollar will collapse, you should sell everthing you own, buy gold and enough freeze dried food to last you for the rest of your life. >>
What about selling everything I own and buying a home where everyone can grow food 365 days out of the year, say, oh, maybe......in Costa Rica?
<< <i>I don't know whether you are very uninformed on these matters, just trying to stir people up, or both. As TDN wrote, the Euro is far worse off than the $, the Pound isn't doing very well, either. I have degrees in these matters and deal with them all of the time. >>
For your information I have two degrees in business (BBA, MBA) and a law degree and have studied economics most of my life, so your inuendo that I am either uniformed or just trying to stir people up (or both) probably says WAY more about you then it does about me.
<< <i>It's a little concerning that some folks with a pile of metal seem to kind of "hope" for a SHTF scenario, so they will be able to profit from it >>
I have yet to see anyone here hope for a SHTF scenario. Can you provide a link to any such statement? Just because someone buys life insurance doesn't mean that they want to die.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And, for your edification, read the article about Peru that came out in National Geographics a few years ago after their currency totally collapsed. There are many happy people there now and their economy is 'fine'....however many people lost everything......no one is there now surviving on freezed dried food that they bought when their economy was teetering....so, just because a country has a currency collapse doesn't mean the country becomes a permanent wasteland. Makes for cool movies but it doesn't happen. Or, study Germany....you may remember that they had a currency collapse......and are now better off than the US.
Comments
<< <i>Unemployment is based upon the number of pepole who are actively looking for work, regardless of collecting unemplolyment. >>
I think you are right, that I was wrong. My apologies. I quoted a source that was wrong......not that that makes me right, I just don't want anyone to think I intentionally said something to mislead anyone.
Having said that, the number though that is often given by the media is "the number of claims for unemployment filed in month x"
<< <i>Why would you only want to look at commodity prices for measuring inflation anyway. Do you purchase no services? Do you not pay housing expenses? >>
I didn't say that inflation can be determined by looking only at commodity prices. I suggested that a person look at commodity prices as an indicator that inflation isn't 1.1%.
By the way, I suspect that wages are not changing all that much with the exception of minimum wage going up recently. Costs for housing is probably down over the past few years because of so many foreclosures lower home values (also morgage rates are very low now for those lucky few who can now qualify for a loan) however foreclosures have probably driven demand for apartments up, and also prices. Just my guess.
<< <i>How is the upcoming collapse in the U.S. Dollar going to affect prices of rare US coins? >>
The dollar won't collapse. Instead its value will continue to erode. IMO prices for great rare coins will be impacted more by other factors.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/gold/liberty-head-2-1-gold-major-sets/liberty-head-2-1-gold-basic-set-circulation-strikes-1840-1907-cac/alltimeset/268163
This country has seen much better days.
Will we remain the most prosperous country ever? Hard to say. Many think that big business has insured their future, at the american worker's expense.
We've allowed approx 600 people to totally screw up the lives of over 300,000,000. Keep listening to the prognosticators. They all saw this crap coming too? Not!
Give me a break.
<< <i>Adrian, First of all I did not say you are worried about it...........Define "better off" >>
Two scenarios....TDN (TradeDollarNut) and his hypothetical brother, CDN (Certificate of Deposit Nut)
TDN buys 10 million dollars worth of investment quality rare coins, CDN buys 10 million dollars worth of 5 year certificates of deposit from his bank.
Today, the value of the coins and the CDs are enough for a couple to retire on.
Sometime between now and five years from now hyperinflation hits the dollar.
Five years from now, TDNs rare coins are worth quadrillions of dollars (and even though the dollar is hyperinflated, the coins are worth enough, still for a couple to retire on - at least) and CDNs certificates of depost are worth less than 11 million dollars and a new blender is 10 million dollars, albeit an Oster.
TDN is better off because he can still look forward to retirment and spending 30 hours a week cruising the PCGS message board.
CDN is not better off because he can only afford a blender even though it's a good one. Also, CDN's wife is good friends with TDN's wife. CDN's wife will not stop harping on CDN's brilliant decision to buy CDs when TDN sent him and his wife a link to this thread five years earlier whereupon CDN pooh poohed the idea of buying rare coins. CDN's only salvation is that he has to go off to work as a greeter at Walmart each day for the rest of his life and so can get away from his nagging wife.
<< <i>The US economy, although flawed, is the envy of the world and will continue to be the dominant reserve currency for the foreseeable future. >>
My opinion is that this is generally the belief possessed by most Americans who are my father's age, in their 70s. They had great lives, the government took care of their problems, and they never really saw the Great depression.
(I come from a different vantage point. I've had a little exposure to second hand economic and political tumult. My mother grew up in Munich, Germany, she was born in 1940. My grandfather spent 5 years in a Russian prison camp. My second wife's family escaped Castro in 1961. Also, I have traveled quite a bit, having seen all 50 states and 47 countries. I've seen horrific poverty.)
<< <i>
<< <i>The US economy, although flawed, is the envy of the world and will continue to be the dominant reserve currency for the foreseeable future. >>
My opinion is that this is generally the belief possessed by most Americans who are my father's age, in their 70s. They had great lives, the government took care of their problems, and they never really saw the Great depression.
(I come from a different vantage point. Incidentally, I've had a little exposure to second hand economic and political tumult. My mother grew up in Munich, Germany, she was born in 1940. My grandfather spent 5 years in a Russian prison camp. My second wife's family escaped Castro in 1961. Also, I have traveled quite a bit, having seen all 50 states and 47 countries. I've seen horrific poverty.) >>
You seem to prove my point. Basically, everywhere else is worse than here. That is why the US will not lose its status as the worlds preferred reserve currency. The dollar will not collapse relative to other currencies, because we are the most stable economy in the world, bar none.
merse
Actually, the USA is the 24th most stable country.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3617160.ece
And, how old are you, abitofthisabitofthat? Just curious.
<< <i>OK I will buy that but what you mean is better of financially, not necessary better off in other areas of ones life. Some are born into this world as privileged white males and are better off before they hit the ground. Some are not. >>
Yes, that is true and buying rare coins will never make you white or privileged.
If I'm wrong and there is a rapid and wrenching collapse of the US Dollar it would cause owners of US Dollars pain. The more you own the more pain. You might decide you don't want to buy luxuries any more, perhaps preferring farm land or something else of substance. I don't think the high end coin market will do well in those circumstances.
<< <i>Yes, that is true and buying rare coins will never make you white or privileged. >>
Nice deflection, I might as well say the sun also rises....
<< <i>we are the most stable economy in the world, bar none.
Actually, the USA is the 24th most stable country.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article3617160.ece
And, how old are you, abitofthisabitofthat? Just curious. >>
We are the most stable country, as far as being used as a reseve currency by any major world economy. I stand by that statement. The article that you googled and pulled on this topic is pretty nonsensical as far as reserve currencies are concerned. The top 10 in the article (which is from 2008) are:
1 Vatican
2 Sweden
3 Luxembourg
4 Monaco
5 Gibraltar
6 San Marino
7 Liechtenstein
8 UK
9 Netherlands
10 Ireland
Your citing this article as defense of your premise of the collapse of the dollar is actually pretty silly.
For the record, I am 41. I also have a good bit of experience in economics, finance, and investing.
merse
<< <i>OK I will buy that but what you mean is better of financially, not necessary better off in other areas of ones life. Some are born into this world as privileged white males and are better off before they hit the ground. Some are not. >>
I didn't mean to be deflective. What would you like me to address?
<< <i>Your citing this article as defense of your premise of the collapse of the dollar is actually pretty silly. >>
I didn't cite it as a defense of my premise that the dollar will collapse. I cited it because you said that our country is the most economically stable. The article supports a different contention. If it had listed the US as second, I wouldn't have quoted it.
But it lists Spain....that was recently in the news because of it's economic problems....as 26th, just two below us.
And is states, Realone: "A one-year investigation and analysis of 235 countries by Jane's Information Services..."
1 Vatican
2 Sweden
3 Luxembourg
4 Monaco
5 Gibraltar
6 San Marino
7 Liechtenstein
8 UK
9 Netherlands
10 Ireland
11 New Zealand
12 Denmark
13 Austria
14 Andorra
15 Germany
16 Iceland
17 Switzerland
18 Portugal
19 Australia
20 Norway
21 Malta
22 France
23 Canada
24 USA
<< <i>We have seen hyperinflation in other countries, but not here and here is different than over there one must remember that. So sure inflation is a big possibility as always, hyper here compared to over there would be substantially less and thus couldn't be defined as hyper in the general sense. Things just aren't that simple to define it like what we have seen in other countries. >>
We have had hyperinflation here in the US before. This is from Wikipedia:
During the Revolutionary War, the Continental Congress authorized the printing of paper currency called continental currency. These easily counterfeited notes depreciated rapidly, giving rise to the expression "not worth a continental." During the U.S. Civil War, between January 1861 and April 1865, the Lerner Commodity Price Index of leading cities in the eastern Confederacy states increased from 100 to over 9,000. As the Civil War dragged on, the Confederate States of America dollar had less and less value, until it was almost worthless by the last few months of the war.
In 1836, the steam coining press was first used. So, all coins made before that were essentially hand made. More rustic.....but more importantly, fewer made.
Here's the link again, buddy:
http://www.fi.edu/pieces/knox/
<< <i>I didn't mean to be deflective. What would you like me to address? >>
Yes please explain how someone with no money would be interested in and can buy rare coins on a regular basis...
"Where is fancy bread in the heart or in the head" --
US prices were contained in a range from 1800-1933, with no net change from start to finish. A better analysis of commodity and price inflation should probably be done from 1933 or even August 1971 (off the gold standard). The most damage has been done in the past 50 yrs.
We've allowed approx 600 people to totally screw up the lives of over 300,000,000. Keep listening to the prognosticators. They all saw this crap coming too? Not!
Give me a break.
Yeah, plenty of prognosticators saw this coming back in the 1990's. And there was no shortage of them openly professing their views by around 2002-2004 (Ron Paul, Peter Schiff and dozens like them). Heck, even the amateur forum gang had their own thread in spring 2004 that discussed these very topics (collapse of real estate, crushing debts, entitlements and otc derivatives, major bank failures, pension fund failures, commodity prices taking off, etc.).
It's only a matter of when the dollar and it's sister fiat currencies hit the basement floor. That's what they all do. But it should take years or decades for that to happen. Today the dollar buys only 5% of goods vs a 1913 dollar. One can't determine how the fiat currencies are doing unless they are compared to something tangible that has maintained value over history. Gold is near the top of that list. So while the US Dollar index says the dollar has only lost 33% of it's value since 2001 (compared to the Euro and 5 other currencies), it has lost over 81% of its value compared to gold. All currencies are showing this general trend over the past 5-10 yrs. The dollar still holds its title as world's reserve currency, but emerging nations have been finding ways to work around it by locking in resource trades in other currencies. That trend is increasing. I see that Ireland and Iceland are ranked above the US in that stability survey. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me unless having nothing and formally declaring bankruptcy/default automatically makes one stable.
roadrunner
I'm going to assume that the person in question has at least 10 years to live and is in good health but has no skills and no job and is not a teenager living at home with mom and dad.
This is what I would do (worst case scenario):
First, if that person is homeless, he has to get a sign that says "Anything Helps". The bigger the sign, the better.
Then, that person has to work at panhandling like it's a full time job with overtime. No less than 60 hours per week. In a good corner, you should be able to make $800 a week. I'll assume they don't pay taxes on the money. Wear dirty clothes.
Spend no more than half of that on living expenses, one-quarter if you can. Save the rest of the money.
Buy books on self esteem and charisma. Read them. I like "The Laws of Chrisma" by Mortensen. You're never going to amount to anything if you don't believe in yourself. And, even Helen Keller who was blind and deaf make a success out of her life, so, there are no excuses permitted. You have to work on your self esteem until it gets there.
Buy books on business and entreprenueralism (sp?) While you're panhandling, think up some business ideas. Try to meet successful people in your spare time and go over your business ideas with them. Don't wear dirty clothes.
Once you have been working (panhandling) about a year, you should have saved up at least $10,000. Start the business most likely to succeed. If it succeeds, you're on your way to being known by your first name at Heritage Auctions. If it doesn't succeed, go back to panhandling and repeat.
I've heard that after you've taken bankruptcy, because you no longer have any debts, credit card companies are more likely to give you a credit card. (And no, I've never taken bankrupcy, I'm sure that if I had, someone would have revealed it on these boards.)
Yes, I totally agree that it is just a matter of time.........and it's nice to have someone agree with me who has a reputation for clear thinking.
Wow, the dollar has lost 33% in the last 10 years? Incredible.
Not so incredible really. When it first bottomed in March 2008 it had lost 39% of its value. But that's only comparing unbacked paper to unbacked paper or "air" to "air." So while it has "appeared" to have gained 9% in value against other fiat in the past 33 months (USDX up from 74 to 81), it has lost an additional 25% vs. gold ($1033 to $1368). Gold would have to fall to $1125 to even things out again from March 2008.
roadrunner
Anytime the word "collapse" is used in conjunction with the dollar or the US in general it is automatically dismissed as folly. As if we are impervious to such things, I guess the bigger they are the harder they fall does not apply to us.
Fact- the dollar is currently the world reserve currency.
Fact- the dollar can be replaced as the top world reserve currency. To think that this has not been discussed amongst various nations would be very ostrich-like. Gold, the Yen and the Swiss Franc have been defacto alternatives as of late. Could a basket of currencies (including the dollar) /gold replace the singularity of the dollar in the world markert when it comes pricing oil etc? It doesn't seem like a remote possibility. There was a time in the 18th and 19th century when nobody would believe that the British Sterling would ever be replaced as the top reserve currency as they dominated world commerce and the seas. Oddly enough the sterling was eventually replaced by the upstart US dollar. Surely most will just dismiss that the dollar could never follow the same path just because and it will remain the currency folcrum forever on the world stage.
In a hyper-inflation scenario a gem walker may buy you a loaf of bread instead of the $400 paper dollars that maybe necessary. A 1795 half dollar may buy you a new roof or maybe a car.
Most will dismiss this as even a remote possibility. Carry on...........MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>I'm going to assume that the person in question has at least 10 years to live and is in good health but has no skills and no job and is not a teenager living at home with mom and dad. This is what I would do (worst case scenario): First, if that person is homeless, he has to get a sign that says "Anything Helps". The bigger the sign, the better. Then, that person has to work at panhandling like it's a full time job with overtime. No less than 60 hours per week. In a good corner, you should be able to make $800 a week. I'll assume they don't pay taxes on the money. Wear dirty clothes. Spend no more than half of that on living expenses, one-quarter if you can. Save the rest of the money. Buy books on self esteem and charisma. Read them. I like "The Laws of Chrisma" by Mortensen. You're never going to amount to anything if you don't believe in yourself. And, even Helen Keller who was blind and deaf make a success out of her life, so, there are no excuses permitted. You have to work on your self esteem until it gets there. Buy books on business and entreprenueralism (sp?) While you're panhandling, think up some business ideas. Try to meet successful people in your spare time and go over your business ideas with them. Don't wear dirty clothes. Once you have been working (panhandling) about a year, you should have saved up at least $10,000. Start the business most likely to succeed. If it succeeds, you're on your way to being known by your first name at Heritage Auctions. If it doesn't succeed, go back to panhandling and repeat. >>
Ha ha LOL, you know Helen Keller is not the only deaf and blind persons that have been in the world and they are not all famous, so Helen Keller was a rare individual who also had a very persistent teacher. Most pan handlers do not even have a place to get mail, so they cannot get a book or tape or an auction winning sent to them.
<< <i>
<< <i>The US economy, although flawed, is the envy of the world and will continue to be the dominant reserve currency for the foreseeable future. >>
My opinion is that this is generally the belief possessed by most Americans who are my father's age, in their 70s. They had great lives, the government took care of their problems, and they never really saw the Great depression.
(I come from a different vantage point. I've had a little exposure to second hand economic and political tumult. My mother grew up in Munich, Germany, she was born in 1940. My grandfather spent 5 years in a Russian prison camp. My second wife's family escaped Castro in 1961. Also, I have traveled quite a bit, having seen all 50 states and 47 countries. I've seen horrific poverty.) >>
47 countries..? Well what do you think of the potential for incredible foreign coins?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>....Interestingly....a year or so ago a dollar bought you 575 Costa Rican Colones....now it buys 516 colones. That isn't a collapse but when the dollar buys 100 colones, and one fifth of the Euros that it buys now and one fifth of the Yuan that it buys now, I'd call that a collapse.
Some might also call it hyperinflation. >>
At the tender age of 17, I was an exchange student in Costa Rica--and returned to USA during their summer break, December 1980. John Lennon had just been killed.
At the bank, $1 got you 8-- OCHO --colones; on the street, $1 for 14 colones (the locals tried to discourage use of the black market but I did succumb a couple of times, especially when they threw in a couple extra tacos--I mean REAL tacos). This was in la Alajuela, coffee bean country-- poor, but good folk overall. I picked beans all day--quality red beans, no green beans -hehe- and would make 14 to 16 colones. Yep, about $2/day. The 'fast' pickers would only get 1/2 the pay because of the high number of green beans mixed in their bags, and sometimes the foreman (quality control guy) would just dump their bag and yell at them/ no pay either.
I could eat like a pig for 4 to 6 colones/ day; usually half that and some amazing fresh produce, along with the all the black beans and rice you wanted.
516 colones per $1 now!! WOW, some major 'adjustment' must have gone on during last the last 30 years .... what do we call that again?
edited to get rid of italics
<< <i>The dollar has been debased by 95% over the past 100 hundred years as RR pointed out. It' s been a slow drip as designed............... to go undetected. The final purge could be exacerbated by any number of triggers. Even a well meaning" QE3, 4 or 5.
Anytime the word "collapse" is used in conjunction with the dollar or the US in general it is automatically dismissed as folly. As if we are impervious to such things, I guess the bigger they are the harder they fall does not apply to us.
Fact- the dollar is currently the world reserve currency.
Fact- the dollar can be replaced as the top world reserve currency. To think that this has not been discussed amongst various nations would be very ostrich-like. Gold, the Yen and the Swiss Franc have been defacto alternatives as of late. Could a basket of currencies (including the dollar) /gold replace the singularity of the dollar in the world markert when it comes pricing oil etc? It doesn't seem like a remote possibility. There was a time in the 18th and 19th century when nobody would believe that the British Sterling would ever be replaced as the top reserve currency as they dominated world commerce and the seas. Oddly enough the sterling was eventually replaced by the upstart US dollar. Surely most will just dismiss that the dollar could never follow the same path just because and it will remain the currency folcrum forever on the world stage.
In a hyper-inflation scenario a gem walker may buy you a loaf of bread instead of the $400 paper dollars that maybe necessary. A 1795 half dollar may buy you a new roof or maybe a car.
Most will dismiss this as even a remote possibility. Carry on...........MJ >>
For the record, I agree that the dollar could be replaced as reserve currency of choice, at some point in the future, by a basket of currencies. In fact, I think it is highly likely. However, it is most likely quite far away, and even then the dollar will be the largest component of the basket. It will be a very gradual, orderly process that will in no way resemble anything that could be described as a collapse.
merse
Sorry, but RR makes much more sense than the snake to me. Trying to say someone can make $800 bucks working 60 hours a week holding a sign then spending it wisely and saving some is, well, not connected with reality. Any list with bankrupt Ireland and Iceland as more stable than the largest economy in the world was written by people who I'd like to talk to. I'm sure I could sell them something they value more than I do.
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.
If you're selling red coffee beans in Costa Rica, who you gonna believe - the guy with imaginary paper money or the guy with some nice silver coins in hand?
At some point, the trust in the currency is only as good as the promises behind it.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>How is the upcoming collapse in the U.S. Dollar going to affect prices of rare US coins? >>
It's timed to coinside with a meteror hitting North America and the end of the Republic.
Seriously, what can you do? Smart money has hedged agaist the US dollar but you can only hedge so much before creating excess risk. It's best to stradle the market and wait for some stability.
<< <i>
<< <i>Sure....I put a link up above to a site....but here goes:
In 1836, the steam coining press was first used. So, all coins made before that were essentially hand made. More rustic.....but more importantly, fewer made.
Here's the link again, buddy:
http://www.fi.edu/pieces/knox/ >>
I agree with your reasoning but not with your date range. Based upon my short experience with bust half dimes and bus dimes the screw press was used on the entire series which is through 1837. >>
I consider coins made using a screw press to be "hand made". The only things that you can make purely with your hands are things like chocolate chip cookies (mmmmm.......cookies.....) and those are not a good substitute for metal coins. Yet.
"Excuse me....how many cookies are you guys getting for a gallon of diesel?"
Our Vice President.
(This is why I say that the collapse of the U.S. Dollar is inevitable. All countries that have hyperinflated their currency did it by spending money to prevent bankruptcy.....which is the prevailing "wisdom" of the US.
And, that is why I way that rare coins are going to skyrocket within the next few years.)
While true mathematically and factually, I think you are assuming all the world feels that way. I think only gold-standard enthusiasts think this way.
Example - What if, in 2025, looking back to 2011, they write that gold and silver were in a speculative bubble during this time. Is the dollar really weaker overall because gold and silver are way, way up? Why not compare the dollar and other currencies to oil, which is a huge component to inflation.
Example - What if, in 2025, looking back to 2011, they write that gold and silver were in a speculative bubble during this time. Is the dollar really weaker overall because gold and silver are way, way up? Why not compare the dollar and other currencies to oil, which is a huge component to inflation.
Yes, all the world probably feels that the value of currencies should be compared to what tangible goods they can buy from it. I know they aren't thinking how many US dollars can they get for their Peso's or Francs. I didn't specify gold as the only choice, but one near the top of the list. One would also see oil, copper, useful farm land, selective RE, and some softs or grains near the top of that list. In 2025 the entire nation will look back on 1971 to 2011 and realize the dollar and TBonds were the 2 biggest speculative bubbles. Commodities have just adjusted their prices to mirror those bubbles. Yes, the dollar is really weaker because it has lost ground to gold and silver. It's lost even more ground to commodities in general, including oil. The gold and oil charts are quite similar. Use the CCI or CRB indicies, the results would be similar. Gold has been well "managed" and shows the dollar in a better light than many other commodities would.
Crude oil chart
roadrunner
What I have never understood is that if the value of a commodity goes up and that commodity is valued in a currency that has gone down in value it is actually worth the same or less not more. So no one is better off even if it is sold. The only benefit besides enjoying owning the commodity I can see is that it will hold it value over time.
it presumes something very unlikely, but if it were to occur, the second part of the question is mostly irrelevent to the big picture as a result of the first.
second, such questions are far too large to be addressed in a pithy reply.
lots of these threads here and on the PM forum discuss "the economy" which is a lot like saying "the weather"
"how's the US economy?" is as usless a question as saying "how's the US weather?"
Well, it's cool and partly sunny here in Southern California, today.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Utilizing a basket of currencies to calibrate a single currency's value is simply socialism lite. We are already seeing the result of what the use of "a basket of currencies" entails. Witness Iceland and Greece vis a vis the Euro. More to come.
Hard money guys are always painted by the established banking system and their government pawns as being nut jobs. There is a reason for that.
I knew it would happen.
The only thing keeping it afloat is that people around the world are forced to accept it (& buy bonds in it) for trade since it has for a long time been the reserve currency of the world. But that will probably change before the end of this year.
China and Russia have already abandoned the dollar as their common currency of trade!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332882/China-Russia-abandon-dollar-new-bilateral-trade-agreement.html
First, the Euro will collapse, then shortly within a couple of weeks, so will the dollar in Weimar Republic style.
I would not be saving my money in banks either in preparation for this. You will not be able to get it out of the bank anyways as the mass of people will be rushing the bank and FDIC is way under funded to cover the looses when the banks start to fold over.
Adrian, here's a good resource of info if you want to know how to prepare for the certain chaos ahead for this country due to the criminal activity of the large centralized banks and their giant ponzi scheme of trading paper for the world.
http://www.stansberryresearch.com/pro/1011PSIENDVD/PPSILC42/PR
And Adrian if you don't already know - you should look into this information on the banking system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U71-KsDArFM
However, my opinion is that just like most people will tell you generally that food from McDonad's isn't good for you, the US economy is also not too good.
Finally, while I'm all for pithy comments there are times when something more is expected, desired and appropriate. I certainly think many comments made in this thread have been insightful (and at least one, inciteful).
The truth about the Wizard of Oz......I did not know that....silver instead of ruby slippers on the yellow brick road.
<< <i>Thanks, Rob790. Very useful.
The truth about the Wizard of Oz......I did not know that....silver instead of ruby slippers on the yellow brick road. >>
Funny how the world is different than we ever were told. The Wizard of Oz is a story of international criminal bankers and there are lots of hidden meanings in it's story.
Rubies are a lot more flashy than silver for the silver screen, call it artistic license.
<< <i>
And Adrian if you don't already know - you should look into this information on the banking system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U71-KsDArFM >>
REQUIRED VIEWING FOR EVERY FORUM MEMBER.
If you think the dollar will collapse, you should sell everthing you own, buy gold and enough freeze dried food to last you for the rest of your life.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
ever see "Night of the living Dead" or, more recently, "Resident Evil"?
mobs of hungry, desperate people do not "barter", they "take"
It's a little concerning that some folks with a pile of metal (on the internet, not necessarily HERE at CU
EDIT: in reading some of the replies, it seems by the word "collapse", most folks including the OP mean "adjust to new market conditions", in which case, i think the answer to the question is,
"if the US dollar declines in value in relation to other assets, including rare coins, the prices of those assets measured in terms of US dollars will RISE"
how's that? did i get it right?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>If you think the dollar will collapse, you should sell everthing you own, buy gold and enough freeze dried food to last you for the rest of your life. >>
What about selling everything I own and buying a home where everyone can grow food 365 days out of the year, say, oh, maybe......in Costa Rica?
<< <i>I don't know whether you are very uninformed on these matters, just trying to stir people up, or both. As TDN wrote, the Euro is far worse off than the $, the Pound isn't doing very well, either. I have degrees in these matters and deal with them all of the time. >>
For your information I have two degrees in business (BBA, MBA) and a law degree and have studied economics most of my life, so your inuendo that I am either uniformed or just trying to stir people up (or both) probably says WAY more about you then it does about me.
<< <i>It's a little concerning that some folks with a pile of metal seem to kind of "hope" for a SHTF scenario, so they will be able to profit from it >>
I have yet to see anyone here hope for a SHTF scenario. Can you provide a link to any such statement? Just because someone buys life insurance doesn't mean that they want to die.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire