As for price, That's fine, $200 or below per coin, shipped, works for me. I don't care if these AP's make a few bucks. BUT, they have to sell all 5 to one HH, I'm not going to open 5 accounts at 5 AP's to get a full set.
Who says that you will be able to specify which one you get? You could order five coins from five different AP's and get four Arkansas Bidets........
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Well Fidelitrade is out. I'm not going to waste my time buying one from them. >>
Stay tuned....we may have a conspiracy brewing here among the AP's
So for 2 of the 3 are selling singles only.....don't assume ANYONE is selling a set
Edited to add: my bad.....so far only Fidelitrade announced the single coin deal (but, they are the ONLY one that have said anything!) >>
I guess for Fidelitrade it is the choice of pissing off customers who called to late and they ran out of inventory vs. pissing off or missing orders from those who want sets.
Still, I don't see why any retailer would want to quintuple their workload and overhead unnecessarily, and then end up with odd lots of individual designs.
<< <i> I guess for Fidelitrade it is the choice of pissing off customers who called to late and they ran out of inventory vs. pissing off or missing orders from those who want sets. >>
Taking names for a notification list and taking orders are two different things....
Do you really think they have MORE than 6000 names on their notification list???? If so then all those that are poo-pooing this item are way off base.....
I don't think they have anywhere near that amount (and they definitely don't have 30,000 names to notify)
<< <i>Who says that you will be able to specify which one you get? You could order five coins from five different AP's and get four Arkansas Bidets........
No, I don't think they have more than 1 or 2 thousand names at the moment, but they may be anticipating a deluge of calls once the coins are released.
And you are right - they are not pre-sales.
Personally, I bet the 1 coin per HH (vs 1 set per HH) was a decree from some office manager whose decision will be over-ruled once they realize the logistics and overhead and overall insanity of selling 1 coin at a time. Either that or there was a misinterpretation that they will be offered individually as well as as sets. I'm sure they'll still sell individual coins, but to not offer them as sets is insane. All speculation of course.
<< <i>Bummer ... Time for the "forum protectorate" to start complaining again? >>
No will leave that up to you this time, oh bummer, that means nothing will get done oh well one coin only works for me, i guess this must drive the flippers crazy . >>
Sorry to disappoint you & I'm glad this works for you. I would be looking at my 2 sets by now, had you not tried to save me from myself
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>So that means you do think they will be sold as singles... >>
I think they will be offered individually and in sets, but it will be per the AP's whim - some might not want to bother with individual sales. I think most buyers will buy complete sets.
I really do not understand why they would want to sell them one at a time. You would think they would want to take their profit and run. Why would they want the hassle?
Is anyone going to have these (individual coins or sets) for Christmas delivery? Something tells me No. A lot of Grinch's this Christmas! <Mint, Apmex, Distributors> - A real bummer
An AP gets 6000 SETS and sells them one coin at a time.....to, maybe, 5000-6000 buyers. Sales stagnate because there are only so many "individuals" out there
This leaves them with around 25,000 coins left.
Eventually the 1 per thingy is removed, the price restraints are removed, and they can sell them to their normal dealers at a decent markup...
Dealers bump up the price again and the AP's and the dealers are back where they wanted to be before APMEX fiasco..
No rush for the AP's....just wait 'em out and get a good price
Net gain for the collector....they have a coin or two at a decent price....
Net loss....if they want a set they have to pony up
<< <i>Unless I missed something.....none have announced they will be selling sets >>
Just to clarify... I and I think others here would consider selling 1 of each kind individually to be selling a set, even if it isn't formally referred to or sold as a set. i.e., sold as 5 line items vs. 1 line item.
<< <i>Authorized Purchasers must establish and enforce an order limit of one coin of each design for each household. >>
One coin of each design per household. It's pretty clear. Fidelitrade (and others) may want to string it out for their own reasons, but it does not make business sense. A business should want to turn these over ASAP instead of risking a significant change in the price of silver. Remember, as the rules are written, they can't charge more than 10% over what they paid the mint for each coin. If they withhold them from the market they won't be following the "must make them available to the public" edict. I don't think the mint would look too kindly on games or shenanigans...
Fidelitrade (and others) may want to string it out for their own reasons, but it does not make business sense.
I agree that it doesn't make sense...A very remote possibility is that by selling them singularly, that they increase their database of names to market to.
But then what would be the point to have a database of names of less than happy customers...
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"An AP gets 6000 SETS and sells them one coin at a time.....to, maybe, 5000-6000 buyers. Sales stagnate because there are only so many "individuals" out there
This leaves them with around 25,000 coins left.
Eventually the 1 per thingy is removed, the price restraints are removed, and they can sell them to their normal dealers at a decent markup...
Dealers bump up the price again and the AP's and the dealers are back where they wanted to be before APMEX fiasco..
No rush for the AP's....just wait 'em out and get a good price
Net gain for the collector....they have a coin or two at a decent price...."
<< <i>Fidelitrade (and others) may want to string it out for their own reasons, but it does not make business sense.
I agree that it doesn't make sense...A very remote possibility is that by selling them singularly, that they increase their database of names to market to.
But then what would be the point to have a database of names of less than happy customers... >>
That AP normally does not deal with J6P & I suspect that they either misinterpreted the misguided Mint's guidelines or there is money to be made in their s&h charges.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
"Set an "Alert Me" now and be notified when we begin selling these fabulous coins! This is one of the most talked about United States Mint Bullion products ever released and we expect to sell out quickly. If you would like to become one of the first to own the series, set your "Alert Me" NOW!"
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
3. Authorized Purchasers must establish and enforce an order limit of one coin of each design for each household.
Key word is 'limit'
My take -
AP can sell up to five coins per HH - or as few as one.
Question - so I buy one coin from Fidelitrade, per their current policy, can I buy the other four designs from other APs to achieve the one coin of each design per HH as stipulated by the mint?????
That's the way I read it.
How do the other APs know what design I previously purchased?
I'm calling FUBAR and I am 97.5% out of ever buying one of these stupid things, save a miracle.
The AP’s are in “uproar” over the Mint’s new terms, according to a coin dealer web site called Coininfo.com (http://www.coininfo.com), and one unnamed dealer referred to the one set per household limit as “outrageous
Mint Stats: Ignore Old Stuff, Where's ATB? By David C. Harper, Numismatic News December 16, 2010 Other News & Articles Yoko Donates Gold Lennon Coin Mint Stats: Ignore Old Stuff, Where's ATB? Gold Weight the Same for Three Varieties of Saint Gaudens This article was originally printed in Numismatic News. >> Subscribe today!
Sales of 2010 proof silver American Eagles rose by just 89,109. This seems a little on the weak side considering the general frenzy for silver. However, with attention already shifted from the proof Eagle to the America the Beautiful 5-ounce bullion coin, perhaps this should not be a surprise.
2011 U.S. Coin Digest Up-to-date price listings for all circulating and non-circulating U.S. coins! Get your copy today!
Who will actually be selling the new 5-ounce coin to the public is on the minds of many collectors. Most of the 11 authorized purchasers are basically wholesale rather than retail businesses.
APMEX will offer them for sure as this is written, but the price is still up in the air with the Mint’s new rules and timing. Timing is important because silver bullion fluctuates daily.
If an authorized purchaser offers the first sets it bought on Dec. 10, the price would be based on the Dec. 13 London morning price of $29.33 an ounce. That would put the cost at $156.40 a coin, or $782 for a set of five. The 10 percent mark-up puts the cost to the public at $860.20 plus shipping.
The aspect of the act dealing with America the Beautiful Silver Coins could have some interesting and impactful consequences beyond the physical appearance of the series. The United States Mint has already produced the 2010 coins, and began selling them through its network of Authorized Purchasers (see release details). Quantities for each of the five 2010 issues was limited to 33,000 for the bullion, plus another 27,000 for each collector uncirculated coin. While the uncirculated production was a pleasant surprise, the overall mintage was less than expected given that demand is expected to be exceptionally high for the debuting coins. Should the United States Mint decide to change the silver coin specifications in 2011, the 2010 issues will be very unique in the series and perhaps the most scarce.
Ron Paul suggests the outright use of gold and silver could break the Fed December 16th, 2010 9:14 am ET.Do you like this story? Congressman Ron Paul understands the US monetary system. He also understands the historical relevance of the gold and/or silver backed currency America used until 1971, and the strength and power we had in the world as keeper of the dollar.
Since that time when President Nixon removed us from a gold backed system, Ron Paul has been fighting the uphill struggle against the Federal Reserve, and their ability now to print money at will under their banking policies. As soon to be chairman of the Monetary Policy subcommittee, one of the first things he will do is try to have a full audit of the Fed.
Yet in the meantime, Congressman Paul knows something must be done to address our devaluing dollar, and the growing concern of our reserve currency on the world stage.
With this in mind, Congressman Paul spoke recently on CNBC, and threw out the idea of opening our monetary system up to competition. Under the Constitution, Congress was given the power to COIN (not print) money, but in 1913 they ceded that power to a private cartel of banks which became the Federal Reserve. Ironically, the Fed's charter was only for 100 years and ends in 2012, which offers now a huge opportunity for America to address the problem, or as Ron Paul suggests, bring in some competition.
In an article yesterday from The Raw Story, Congressman Paul threw out the suggestion of Americans using gold and silver instead of fiat currency as a means to force competition, and perhaps even break the stranglehold of the Fed.
The libertarian-leaning conservative has long been a critic of the US Federal Reserve and central banking as a whole, but this may be a new one: speaking with CNBC recently, Paul said he views the Fed as a "monopoly" that could benefit from the introduction of competition.
"We should start ending the Fed by allowing competition," he said. "I don't like the fact that they have monopoly control. It's a cartel: they print the money. The Constitution really doesn't give them that authority. The Constitution said that only gold and silver can be legal tender. I want to legalize competition and allow individual Americans to use gold and silver in competition, as money. Today if you do that, you can go to jail.
"I don't like the idea that the power gravitates to the Federal Reserve. They literally can have a yearly budget bigger than the whole Congress, then what they do is kept secret. We don't know where they spend the money. We're just starting to crack that nut in order to get some of this information and we should continue to do it."
As the old saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat. If Congress doesn't have the stomach to dissolve the Fed entirely, or abstain from renewing their charter in 2012, then perhaps a palatable solution could be to offer competition.
In Europe, the European Union offered an attempt at stable competition by creating the Euro for international transactions within its confines, and it grew to be recognized throughout the world as hard currency.
The 100 year experiment known as the Fed has proven to be a failure, and the ramifications of Nixon's removing us from the gold standard has created a system of bubbles and busts that have gotten worse each time. The only sane option is to put the power of the printing press back into the hands of Congress, and have a money system based on the original intent of the founders, which is on gold and silver. . Ron Paulgold and silverFederal ReservecompetitionAuditcharter.ReportShare .9 Comments
Lynda Mahana 12 hours ago Report Abuse .Interesting concept. reply. Ivette Gonzalez 11 hours ago Report Abuse .This is kind of scary to think that all that we know is basically a failure. 2012 will be an eye opener for a lot of people. reply.Bill Z 10 hours ago Report Abuse .Interesting idea, but I'm afraid it's doomed to failure- Gresham's Law- bad money will always drive out good.
Trying to reintroduce silver and gold at the grassroots will be like pushing on a string.
Gold and silver will make their debut only after people determine that paper currency, backed by the full faith and credit of the United States, is worth more as fuel for heating than in buying stuff.
And to be honest- I hope we never get there, though I am afraid that we will. reply. LPM 8 hours ago Report Abuse .Gresham's Law only in the case of an enforced legal tender law. In the case of a fiat money freely competing against other market inspired money, Gresham does not apply, in fact, the opposite will occur: good money pushes out 'bad' . LPM 8 hours ago Report Abuse .actually, it is also the forced 'valuation' of the fiat (ie: $35/oz of gold) that enables Greshams Law in combination with Legal Tender laws .Anonymous 8 hours ago Report Abuse .Ron Paul is an involuntary comedian. Anyone who has read and has the brains to understand the US Constitution laughs at what he says. Most of the Constitution and all of the Bill of Rights was written by trial lawyer James Madison and it means what it says, not what Ron Paul WANTS it to say. reply.Gary 7 hours ago Report Abuse .Hey anonymous, why don't you use your real name, Ben Bernanke. The Constitution clearly states, only Congress has the right to coin currency and regulate the value thereof. That seems very easy to understand to me. The Supreme Court has ruled that Congress does not have the authority to delegate that duty to any other group. To me that sounds like the Fed has been illegal since is was dreamed up by the bankers in 1913 to take control of the worlds monetary system. It's not an accident that income tax was dreamed up the same year! Where do you think your income taxes goes? Don't say to the government to provide services for the people. Our income taxes go directly to the Fed. That's why your checks made to the IRS for tax payments say deposit to a Federal Reserve bank. The Fed is not a government controlled agency. They are made up of world banks, not the U.S. government. Ron Paul knows as much about the U.S.monetary system as anyone in our country. After he takes care of Bernanke, hopefully he will run for President. Then the country can get back to constututional law, and not what the rich want it to be. reply.Anonymous 5 hours ago Report Abuse .If the US COnstitution states that gold and silver can be used for currency, then how can this be illegal and one can go to jail for doing so? I thought that the Constitution was the highest law in the nation and if it states that something is legal, then one should not be able to be prosecuted for doing it. Something is not right here. reply.schwartzer 56 minutes ago Report Abuse .Try reading mike hewitts America's forgotten war against central banks to open your eyes it is only 2 pages and on the net. .Add a new comment Join the conversation! Log in here or create a new account if you've never registered before.
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End the Fed Photo: None Related articles •Men: how-to stay out of the dog house •What's special about Special Olympics, Part 4 •Stock Futures rise on Housing Start news from the Commerce Department •Six personality traits of serious entrepreneurs •Ron Paul suggests the outright
Ron Paul suggests the outright use of gold and silver could break the Fed December 16th, 2010 9:14 am ET.Do you like this story? Congressman Ron Paul understands the US monetary system. He also understands the historical relevance of the gold and/or silver backed currency America used until 1971, and the strength and power we had in the world as keeper of the dollar.
..... >>
I think you are either lost, as in the wrong thread, or confused, because I don't see any mention of the 5oz ATB coin in this statement.
<< <i>I think they will fill the one per household and refund the rest instead of refunding the full amount,
Because.....
People have had their CC charged and checks cashed, it takes 'x' amount of days for a full refund to come back. If Apmex is going to cancel the original orders and make the people order again, then they need to release those funds so the buyer has funds to re-buy when they go on sale again.
PLus, as someone mentioned many pages ago, limiting to 1 per HH, makes the first sales total less then 500 sets, not 1000, thus 2500 will come available. >>
I'm the one who keeps saying pre-sales will be null and voided. Once APMEX establishes the new price, I think everyone will be required to place a new order. If your pre-sale hasn't been refunded by the time you place your new order, you will have a "store credit" and a refund will be issued to you. This would make the sales at the new price fair to all which is what the US Mint wants. >>
I have absolutely no doubt that those who have confirmed orders will have one set honored at the new price with the rest refunded.
<< <i>I really do not understand why they would want to sell them one at a time. You would think they would want to take their profit and run. Why would they want the hassle? >>
As it was mentioned earlier, it has got to be to promote their business to the most people possible. If they sell 3,000 sets, they only introduce up to 3,000 to their company. If they do it one coin at the time, they can maximize that to 15,000 different households.
Seems like a giant pain in the ass to do 15,000 individual orders.
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<< <i>As it was mentioned earlier, it has got to be to promote their business to the most people possible. If they sell 3,000 sets, they only introduce up to 3,000 to their company. If they do it one coin at the time, they can maximize that to 15,000 different households. >>
However, most AP don't have retail business, so I don't know the value of getting 3000 new clients.
Not that this is a revelation...but as I sit here and ponder the utter absurdity of virtually everything surrounding the release of these pucks, I have to believe that - on every level - this is the most profoundly screwed up, flawed, poorly thought out, poorly planned, botched, and massively FUBARED (if that's even a word) product roll out in U.S. numismatic history.
The sheer absurdity of this whole thing is just stunning. The best part - impossible though it may seen - is that each day it seems to get even worse.
I think that any and all enjoyment that I may have derived from these pucks (if I ever even see them at all) is being rapidly sucked out by the foolishness of each coming day.
Not that this is a revelation...but as I sit here and ponder the utter absurdity of virtually everything surrounding the release of these pucks, I have to believe that - on every level - this is the most profoundly screwed up, flawed, poorly thought out, poorly planned, botched, and massively FUBARED (if that's even a word) product roll out in U.S. numismatic history.
The sheer absurdity of this whole thing is just stunning. The best part - impossible though it may seen - is that each day it seems to get even worse.
I think that any and all enjoyment that I may have derived from these pucks (if I ever even see them at all) is being rapidly sucked out by the foolishness of each coming day.
Part of the absurdity is that those who picked up the phone advocating new distribution rules have the nerve to complain now about the obvious chain of events that they created------------------BigE
This has shades of the 1907 high relief St. Gaudens all over it.
1. Made to be the ultimate expression of the ordinary piece (in this case, the normal quarter). 2. Hard to make. 3. Low mintage as a result. 4. Only made for a year as the ultimate result---well forget about the St. made a few years back... (the 2011 bullion pucks will probably be smaller and/or not have the side lettering).
I wonder if buying a high relief St. in 1907 was a giant pain in the ass.
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Comments
As for price,
That's fine, $200 or below per coin, shipped, works for me. I don't care if these AP's make a few bucks. BUT, they have to sell all 5 to one HH, I'm not going to open 5 accounts at 5 AP's to get a full set.
<< <i>Regarding the 1 COIN per household vs the one SET per household...
So does this mean I now have to talk to four relatives that I don't really like over the holidays??? >>
...and pay 5 shipping fees
I just want my $1395 set and I can move on (ain't gonna happen) ....and I probably would have had the coins by now
This multiple order, multiple person fustercluck will get the market price for the set way above that....
<< <i>Well Fidelitrade is out. I'm not going to waste my time buying one from them. >>
Stay tuned....we may have a conspiracy brewing here among the AP's
So for 2 of the 3 are selling singles only.....don't assume ANYONE is selling a set
Edited to add: my bad.....so far only Fidelitrade announced the single coin deal (but, they are the ONLY one that have said anything!)
<< <i>
<< <i>Well Fidelitrade is out. I'm not going to waste my time buying one from them. >>
Stay tuned....we may have a conspiracy brewing here among the AP's
So for 2 of the 3 are selling singles only.....don't assume ANYONE is selling a set
Edited to add: my bad.....so far only Fidelitrade announced the single coin deal (but, they are the ONLY one that have said anything!) >>
I guess for Fidelitrade it is the choice of pissing off customers who called to late and they ran out of inventory vs. pissing off or missing orders from those who want sets.
Still, I don't see why any retailer would want to quintuple their workload and overhead unnecessarily, and then end up with odd lots of individual designs.
<< <i> I guess for Fidelitrade it is the choice of pissing off customers who called to late and they ran out of inventory vs. pissing off or missing orders from those who want sets. >>
Taking names for a notification list and taking orders are two different things....
Do you really think they have MORE than 6000 names on their notification list???? If so then all those that are poo-pooing this item are way off base.....
I don't think they have anywhere near that amount (and they definitely don't have 30,000 names to notify)
<< <i>Who says that you will be able to specify which one you get? You could order five coins from five different AP's and get four Arkansas Bidets........
Hey, we Arkansas guys WANT 4 bidets!
And you are right - they are not pre-sales.
Personally, I bet the 1 coin per HH (vs 1 set per HH) was a decree from some office manager whose decision will be over-ruled once they realize the logistics and overhead and overall insanity of selling 1 coin at a time. Either that or there was a misinterpretation that they will be offered individually as well as as sets. I'm sure they'll still sell individual coins, but to not offer them as sets is insane. All speculation of course.
<< <i>Bummer ... Time for the "forum protectorate" to start complaining again?
No will leave that up to you this time, oh bummer, that means nothing will get done oh well one coin only works for me, i guess this must drive the flippers crazy .
Sorry to disappoint you & I'm glad this works for you. I would be looking at my 2 sets by now, had you not tried to save me from myself
<< <i>but to not offer them as sets is insane. >>
So that means you do think they will be sold as singles...
<< <i>Sorry to disappoint you & I'm glad this works for you. I would be looking at my 2 sets by now, had you not tried to save me from myself >>
<< <i>So that means you do think they will be sold as singles... >>
I think they will be offered individually and in sets, but it will be per the AP's whim - some might not want to bother with individual sales. I think most buyers will buy complete sets.
Something tells me No.
A lot of Grinch's this Christmas! <Mint, Apmex, Distributors> - A real bummer
===========
Happy Holidays!
So then...which AP (as of now) has indicated they will be selling sets?
An AP gets 6000 SETS and sells them one coin at a time.....to, maybe, 5000-6000 buyers. Sales stagnate because there are only so many "individuals" out there
This leaves them with around 25,000 coins left.
Eventually the 1 per thingy is removed, the price restraints are removed, and they can sell them to their normal dealers at a decent markup...
Dealers bump up the price again and the AP's and the dealers are back where they wanted to be before APMEX fiasco..
No rush for the AP's....just wait 'em out and get a good price
Net gain for the collector....they have a coin or two at a decent price....
Net loss....if they want a set they have to pony up
<< <i>So then...which AP (as of now) has indicated they will be selling sets? >>
Unless I missed something.....none have announced they will be selling sets
<< <i>Unless I missed something.....none have announced they will be selling sets >>
Just to clarify... I and I think others here would consider selling 1 of each kind individually to be selling a set, even if it isn't formally referred to or sold as a set. i.e., sold as 5 line items vs. 1 line item.
<< <i>Authorized Purchasers must establish and enforce an order limit of one coin of each design for each household. >>
One coin of each design per household. It's pretty clear. Fidelitrade (and others) may want to string it out for their own reasons, but it does not make business sense. A business should want to turn these over ASAP instead of risking a significant change in the price of silver. Remember, as the rules are written, they can't charge more than 10% over what they paid the mint for each coin. If they withhold them from the market they won't be following the "must make them available to the public" edict. I don't think the mint would look too kindly on games or shenanigans...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
I agree that it doesn't make sense...A very remote possibility is that by selling them singularly, that they increase their database of names
to market to.
But then what would be the point to have a database of names of less than happy customers...
OK...let's look at it another way...long term....
"An AP gets 6000 SETS and sells them one coin at a time.....to, maybe, 5000-6000 buyers. Sales stagnate because there are only so many "individuals" out there
This leaves them with around 25,000 coins left.
Eventually the 1 per thingy is removed, the price restraints are removed, and they can sell them to their normal dealers at a decent markup...
Dealers bump up the price again and the AP's and the dealers are back where they wanted to be before APMEX fiasco..
No rush for the AP's....just wait 'em out and get a good price
Net gain for the collector....they have a coin or two at a decent price...."
They can even have time to cherry pick
<< <i>Fidelitrade (and others) may want to string it out for their own reasons, but it does not make business sense.
I agree that it doesn't make sense...A very remote possibility is that by selling them singularly, that they increase their database of names
to market to.
But then what would be the point to have a database of names of less than happy customers... >>
That AP normally does not deal with J6P & I suspect that they either misinterpreted the misguided Mint's guidelines or there is money to be made in their s&h charges.
"Set an "Alert Me" now and be notified when we begin selling these fabulous coins! This is one of the most talked about United States Mint Bullion products ever released and we expect to sell out quickly. If you would like to become one of the first to own the series, set your "Alert Me" NOW!"
<< <i>adding:
Maybe some people don't want the set and would prefer the coin they like,... >>
That would be me.
If we can't get the ATB's we could look foward to palladium coins.
Obama signs resolution calling for palladium coins. Bloomberg 12/15/2010
Text
--------
Happy Holidays
Clearly it was ONE SET per HH, not ONE COIN.
I take back what I said about Fidelitrade earlier - being the only one to take names and numbers, they seemed nice enough
now they removed all doubt they are ? (fill in the ?)
"making all quantities available" "one of each type per hh"
Key word is 'limit'
My take -
AP can sell up to five coins per HH - or as few as one.
Question - so I buy one coin from Fidelitrade, per their current policy, can I buy the other four designs from other APs to achieve the one coin of each design per HH as stipulated by the mint?????
That's the way I read it.
How do the other APs know what design I previously purchased?
I'm calling FUBAR and I am 97.5% out of ever buying one of these stupid things, save a miracle.
What a mess.
I read it that way, too, btw. but you gotta wonder if fidelitrade misread it or is just going with their own plan.
these guys are jokers. period. no business would operate like this.
the USM could have gave it to a first year business major operating a website he developed yesterday and done a better job
The AP’s are in “uproar” over the Mint’s new terms, according to a coin dealer web site called Coininfo.com (http://www.coininfo.com), and one unnamed dealer referred to the one set per household limit as “outrageous
CUT THE AP's OUT.
SELL DIRECT
PROBLEM SOLVED.
Mint Stats: Ignore Old Stuff, Where's ATB?
By David C. Harper, Numismatic News
December 16, 2010
Other News & Articles
Yoko Donates Gold Lennon Coin
Mint Stats: Ignore Old Stuff, Where's ATB?
Gold Weight the Same for Three Varieties of Saint Gaudens
This article was originally printed in Numismatic News.
>> Subscribe today!
Sales of 2010 proof silver American Eagles rose by just 89,109. This seems a little on the weak side considering the general frenzy for silver. However, with attention already shifted from the proof Eagle to the America the Beautiful 5-ounce bullion coin, perhaps this should not be a surprise.
2011 U.S. Coin Digest
Up-to-date price listings for all circulating and non-circulating U.S. coins!
Get your copy today!
Who will actually be selling the new 5-ounce coin to the public is on the minds of many collectors. Most of the 11 authorized purchasers are basically wholesale rather than retail businesses.
APMEX will offer them for sure as this is written, but the price is still up in the air with the Mint’s new rules and timing. Timing is important because silver bullion fluctuates daily.
If an authorized purchaser offers the first sets it bought on Dec. 10, the price would be based on the Dec. 13 London morning price of $29.33 an ounce. That would put the cost at $156.40 a coin, or $782 for a set of five. The 10 percent mark-up puts the cost to the public at $860.20 plus shipping.
The aspect of the act dealing with America the Beautiful Silver Coins could have some interesting and impactful consequences beyond the physical appearance of the series. The United States Mint has already produced the 2010 coins, and began selling them through its network of Authorized Purchasers (see release details). Quantities for each of the five 2010 issues was limited to 33,000 for the bullion, plus another 27,000 for each collector uncirculated coin. While the uncirculated production was a pleasant surprise, the overall mintage was less than expected given that demand is expected to be exceptionally high for the debuting coins. Should the United States Mint decide to change the silver coin specifications in 2011, the 2010 issues will be very unique in the series and perhaps the most scarce.
Coinnews.net
http://www.coinnews.net/2010/12/06/coin-modernization-act-to-become-law/
Ron Paul suggests the outright use of gold and silver could break the Fed
December 16th, 2010 9:14 am ET.Do you like this story?
Congressman Ron Paul understands the US monetary system. He also understands the historical relevance of the gold and/or silver backed currency America used until 1971, and the strength and power we had in the world as keeper of the dollar.
Since that time when President Nixon removed us from a gold backed system, Ron Paul has been fighting the uphill struggle against the Federal Reserve, and their ability now to print money at will under their banking policies. As soon to be chairman of the Monetary Policy subcommittee, one of the first things he will do is try to have a full audit of the Fed.
Yet in the meantime, Congressman Paul knows something must be done to address our devaluing dollar, and the growing concern of our reserve currency on the world stage.
With this in mind, Congressman Paul spoke recently on CNBC, and threw out the idea of opening our monetary system up to competition. Under the Constitution, Congress was given the power to COIN (not print) money, but in 1913 they ceded that power to a private cartel of banks which became the Federal Reserve. Ironically, the Fed's charter was only for 100 years and ends in 2012, which offers now a huge opportunity for America to address the problem, or as Ron Paul suggests, bring in some competition.
In an article yesterday from The Raw Story, Congressman Paul threw out the suggestion of Americans using gold and silver instead of fiat currency as a means to force competition, and perhaps even break the stranglehold of the Fed.
The libertarian-leaning conservative has long been a critic of the US Federal Reserve and central banking as a whole, but this may be a new one: speaking with CNBC recently, Paul said he views the Fed as a "monopoly" that could benefit from the introduction of competition.
"We should start ending the Fed by allowing competition," he said. "I don't like the fact that they have monopoly control. It's a cartel: they print the money. The Constitution really doesn't give them that authority. The Constitution said that only gold and silver can be legal tender. I want to legalize competition and allow individual Americans to use gold and silver in competition, as money. Today if you do that, you can go to jail.
"I don't like the idea that the power gravitates to the Federal Reserve. They literally can have a yearly budget bigger than the whole Congress, then what they do is kept secret. We don't know where they spend the money. We're just starting to crack that nut in order to get some of this information and we should continue to do it."
As the old saying goes, there are many ways to skin a cat. If Congress doesn't have the stomach to dissolve the Fed entirely, or abstain from renewing their charter in 2012, then perhaps a palatable solution could be to offer competition.
In Europe, the European Union offered an attempt at stable competition by creating the Euro for international transactions within its confines, and it grew to be recognized throughout the world as hard currency.
The 100 year experiment known as the Fed has proven to be a failure, and the ramifications of Nixon's removing us from the gold standard has created a system of bubbles and busts that have gotten worse each time. The only sane option is to put the power of the printing press back into the hands of Congress, and have a money system based on the original intent of the founders, which is on gold and silver.
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Comments
Lynda Mahana 12 hours ago Report Abuse .Interesting concept.
reply.
Ivette Gonzalez 11 hours ago Report Abuse .This is kind of scary to think that all that we know is basically a failure. 2012 will be an eye opener for a lot of people.
reply.Bill Z 10 hours ago Report Abuse .Interesting idea, but I'm afraid it's doomed to failure-
Gresham's Law- bad money will always drive out good.
Trying to reintroduce silver and gold at the grassroots will be like pushing on a string.
Gold and silver will make their debut only after people determine that paper currency, backed by the full faith and credit of the United States, is worth more as fuel for heating than in buying stuff.
And to be honest- I hope we never get there, though I am afraid that we will.
reply.
LPM 8 hours ago Report Abuse .Gresham's Law only in the case of an enforced legal tender law. In the case of a fiat money freely competing against other market inspired money, Gresham does not apply, in fact, the opposite will occur: good money pushes out 'bad'
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LPM 8 hours ago Report Abuse .actually, it is also the forced 'valuation' of the fiat (ie: $35/oz of gold) that enables Greshams Law in combination with Legal Tender laws
.Anonymous 8 hours ago Report Abuse .Ron Paul is an involuntary comedian. Anyone who has read and has the brains to understand the US Constitution laughs at what he says. Most of the Constitution and all of the Bill of Rights was written by trial lawyer James Madison and it means what it says, not what Ron Paul WANTS it to say.
reply.Gary 7 hours ago Report Abuse .Hey anonymous, why don't you use your real name, Ben Bernanke. The Constitution clearly states, only Congress has the right to coin currency and regulate the value thereof. That seems very easy to understand to me. The Supreme Court has ruled that Congress does not have the authority to delegate that duty to any other group. To me that sounds like the Fed has been illegal since is was dreamed up by the bankers in 1913 to take control of the worlds monetary system. It's not an accident that income tax was dreamed up the same year! Where do you think your income taxes goes? Don't say to the government to provide services for the people. Our income taxes go directly to the Fed. That's why your checks made to the IRS for tax payments say deposit to a Federal Reserve bank. The Fed is not a government controlled agency. They are made up of world banks, not the U.S. government. Ron Paul knows as much about the U.S.monetary system as anyone in our country. After he takes care of Bernanke, hopefully he will run for President. Then the country can get back to constututional law, and not what the rich want it to be.
reply.Anonymous 5 hours ago Report Abuse .If the US COnstitution states that gold and silver can be used for currency, then how can this be illegal and one can go to jail for doing so? I thought that the Constitution was the highest law in the nation and if it states that something is legal, then one should not be able to be prosecuted for doing it. Something is not right here.
reply.schwartzer 56 minutes ago Report Abuse .Try reading mike hewitts America's forgotten war against central banks to open your eyes it is only 2 pages and on the net.
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End the Fed
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<< <i>Ron Paul makes life interesting.
Ron Paul suggests the outright use of gold and silver could break the Fed
December 16th, 2010 9:14 am ET.Do you like this story?
Congressman Ron Paul understands the US monetary system. He also understands the historical relevance of the gold and/or silver backed currency America used until 1971, and the strength and power we had in the world as keeper of the dollar.
..... >>
I think you are either lost, as in the wrong thread, or confused, because I don't see any mention of the 5oz ATB coin in this statement.
<< <i>
<< <i>I think they will fill the one per household and refund the rest instead of refunding the full amount,
Because.....
People have had their CC charged and checks cashed, it takes 'x' amount of days for a full refund to come back. If Apmex is going to cancel the original orders and make the people order again, then they need to release those funds so the buyer has funds to re-buy when they go on sale again.
PLus, as someone mentioned many pages ago, limiting to 1 per HH, makes the first sales total less then 500 sets, not 1000, thus 2500 will come available. >>
I'm the one who keeps saying pre-sales will be null and voided. Once APMEX establishes the new price, I think everyone will be required to place a new order. If your pre-sale hasn't been refunded by the time you place your new order, you will have a "store credit" and a refund will be issued to you. This would make the sales at the new price fair to all which is what the US Mint wants. >>
I have absolutely no doubt that those who have confirmed orders will have one set honored at the new price with the rest refunded.
<< <i>I just talked to Fidelitrade.
One coin only.
$170 - $180
No sets.
No wonder there will be plenty.
#@$%#$%#$!!!!! >>
Just sooooo stupid. Unreal.
<< <i>I really do not understand why they would want to sell them one at a time. You would think they would want to take their profit and run. Why would they want the hassle? >>
I agree. Just makes NO sense.
Seems like a giant pain in the ass to do 15,000 individual orders.
<< <i>As it was mentioned earlier, it has got to be to promote their business to the most people possible. If they sell 3,000 sets, they only introduce up to 3,000 to their company. If they do it one coin at the time, they can maximize that to 15,000 different households.
>>
However, most AP don't have retail business, so I don't know the value of getting 3000 new clients.
The sheer absurdity of this whole thing is just stunning. The best part - impossible though it may seen - is that each day it seems to get even worse.
I think that any and all enjoyment that I may have derived from these pucks (if I ever even see them at all) is being rapidly sucked out by the foolishness of each coming day.
The sheer absurdity of this whole thing is just stunning. The best part - impossible though it may seen - is that each day it seems to get even worse.
I think that any and all enjoyment that I may have derived from these pucks (if I ever even see them at all) is being rapidly sucked out by the foolishness of each coming day.
-------------------------
This!
(I've always wanted to do that!)
1. Made to be the ultimate expression of the ordinary piece (in this case, the normal quarter).
2. Hard to make.
3. Low mintage as a result.
4. Only made for a year as the ultimate result---well forget about the St. made a few years back... (the 2011 bullion pucks will probably be smaller and/or not have the side lettering).
I wonder if buying a high relief St. in 1907 was a giant pain in the ass.