What is killing my interest in helping newbies here

RYK

I am growing tired of new members who come here, ask a whole lot of questions about coins they are about to purchase, how much to pay for them, what are their grades, are they nice for the grade, whether they should send them in for grading (or regrading), etc., and then a week later have them for sale on the BST or on ebay or both. FEC was the master of this, although I have seen many others do the same, including one seller who is currently on the front page of the BST selling some gold coins.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Or am I just getting old and cranky (with no offense to kranky)?

Fletcher

Ditto

speety

RYK, as bad as it sounds I have been experiencing the same thing. I haven't been here nearly as long as some, started lurking mid-2004, but it seems like the quality of postings have gone down tremendously and a lot of the old-timers are posting less and less. This used to be (still is to some degree) a place to share knowledge among collectors, now it seems like there are as many flippers asking for the next home run as collectors asking about the history and background of their coins.

Swampboy

I've had the same sentiment expressed to me twice via pms recently.


This fact doesn't rule out the possibility that you might just be getting cranky.

Bochiman

I agree.
I've cut back a lot on trying to help for the reasons you state as well as for the rudeness and argumentativeness that many of the new folks have (as well as some older ones).

In my old age, it just isn't worth the arguments anymore.

What I find interesting is that the ones that like to whine and argue the most do the least amount of helping

AgBlox

I thought everyone already quit helping newb's. I've posted several threads over the last year asking about something strange on a coin and I never receive any replies. Maybe it has something to do with the coins I have which are pulled from circ most of the time. I imagine its b/c they aren't MS70's or thousand dollar coins so they must not be worth a reply.

coinguy1

When asked questions/for information, we usually can't know what the person's ultimate motivation is. So, we can try to help, without strings attached and hope for the best. Or, we can decline to offer assistance. Granted, the results aren't always rewarding, but I usually prefer to do the former. It's an individual choice that each of us gets to make.

mike92694

My comments.

1. I like to whine and argue too.
2. Like you said before, RYK, "Some see coins, and others see money"
3. I would honestly much prefer to trust eBay over the BST, especially regarding the newer members.

mkman123

I've found the coin forum to be the nicest place and it would suck if people here stopped helping newbies.

speety

<< <i>I thought everyone already quit helping newb's. I've posted several threads over the last year asking about something strange on a coin and I never receive any replies. Maybe it has something to do with the coins I have which are pulled from circ most of the time. I imagine its b/c they aren't MS70's or thousand dollar coins so they must not be worth a reply. >>



Example? Every post of yours i've seen I have been unable to comment on, but has had at least one reply. Some of the best threads have to do with cheaper coins... hell look at Russ's Dot-Head and Hairy-Head halves. They aren't worth too much (outside of top-pops) but nearly everyone here knows about them...

AgBlox

Not long ago I changed user ID so they wouldn't come up in a search for this name.

My posts on the coin forum normally involve a coin pulled from a roll with some sort of doubling, marks or the like but they quickly drop off lol. No biggie, I just felt like whining. Its what I do.

sinin1

I like it when they show their new purchase and its crap

and we tell them

Buffalode

I do understand the feelings expressed here, but as a new collector who really is here to learn, I appreciate the members who take the time and effort to help me. I have never yet tried to sell any coin here, or on any of the other forums I belong to. I have asked for grade opinions (not to sell a coin) and no doubt asked what must seem like some pretty dumb questions to many here. As I said though, I really do understand the feelings expressed here. I belong to another forum where I have seen new members over the last few months flood the forum with posts trying to sell coins. The same members rarely post about anything else. I am there to learn and to share with others, not to go shopping. I try to share what I can, but that is not easy here considering what I know from a year as a collector compared to the knowledge of many others here. Anyways, I just wanted to say that I value this forum, and the members, as probably the best resource I have found and I certainly appreciate all the help I have received.

RedTiger

I haven't noticed. Spammers with coins to sell have always skirted the edge of the forum, during my time here, sometimes openly, sometimes daring the overloaded moderators to take action. There has also always been a significant jerk population on the forum, can't say that has increased either. If anything, the troll activity may be down a bit with slightly tighter moderation.

Whatever the case, I don't let online stuff bother me much. It ain't worth that. I'm not a moderator. In any case, my opinion isn't going to influence the jerks in any case. Complaining about it will like have zero impact. Jerks rarely think they are the jerks, they think it is the other guy that is always at fault. Jerks, when named, become belligerent and unpleasant, and sometimes vindictive and hateful.

Seeing the humor in a situation is often the best road when I find something that might otherwise be upsetting. Another road is to excuse folks for bad behavior such as spamming by remembering these are very tough economic times for a lot of folks.

Finally, there is no need to answer every newbie question. If a few go unanswered, or answered with sarcasm or bad info, that is okay too, because the real information is out there for anyone willing to look. This isn't a "butler" forum where a person can ring a bell and get instant service, even though a few do think the world is there to serve them.

astrorat

Where possible, I have tried to help newbies with questions and even with locating employment. Sometimes the information is used for "evil" purposes as RKY articulated. I think as the "seasoned" members of the Board, we need to do what we can to help encourage the newbies knowing that, on occasion, we will be used. The alternative (i.e. ignoring the new folks) is just not in the Board's or hobby's best interest. Just my double-dime's worth...

Lane

Bear

When we participate in a Forum such as this one, experienced collectors are

asked many questions. Some folks use the answers to make money by selling

the coin(s) for more, based upon the advise. They seem to take, but never give

back to the Forum. There will always be people like this in life . Eventually, this

take and no give attitude, will cause Forum Members to isolate and finally ignore

these few people . Good people leave, bad people leave and are replaced by more

good people and a few bad people. This is the world, and we do the best we can, for

as many deserving people as we can, as well as we can.

speety

<< <i>Where possible, I have tried to help newbies with questions and even with locating employment. Sometimes the information is used for "evil" purposes as RKY articulated. I think as the "seasoned" members of the Board, we need to do what we can to help encourage the newbies knowing that, on occasion, we will be used. The alternative (i.e. ignoring the new folks) is just not in the Board's or hobby's best interest. Just my double-dime's worth...

Lane >>



Lane, BINGO! I have noticed myself PMing the newer members much more often then before. Giving them very detailed advice when I can tell they are sincere and pointing them in the right direction as far as who is the expert in the series on this forum.

fc

perhaps it is time to dig up some of RYK's first posts to this forum

not that you were out to sell coins at first.. but we are all newbs at
one point in time. I still am :-)

DieClash

I figure we were all Newbies once, whether on the CU boards, YNs, toddlers or infant humans. Thankfully, I had two loving caring parent to teach me the ropes. And thankfully, I've had many on these boards and in my life who have helped me grow numismatically.

If you don't like the profiteering flipper-newbie types then try to offer positive reinforcement for the hobbyist.

I'll never have the resources to play with the big guys in this hobby, and I doubt I will ever make a profit on my collection. It's a hobby to me and I enjoy it. If I can pass that enthusiasm on to a Newbie then I'll be glad to do so.

It's not the flippers so much that bother me, but their targets who buy because they know no better. I guess it is the latter group that I would like to help.

Cheers!

HalfStrike

Some day they will miss the gold coins they sell.

notwilight

<< <i>Not long ago I changed user ID so they wouldn't come up in a search for this name.

My posts on the coin forum normally involve a coin pulled from a roll with some sort of doubling, marks or the like but they quickly drop off lol. No biggie, I just felt like whining. Its what I do. >>



Not a highly followed area. Post a Vam question and see if you don't get a response...good pics help a lot. --Jerry

DennisH

I understand the sentiment, but the satisfaction of helping someone learn outweighs the occasional frustration.
Helping is still a net positive for me.

roadrunner

I don't mind helping a new member on figuring out value. But when those same individuals are shortly seen becoming dealers on the BST using other people's offers/expertise to figure out where to price items at ....then I no longer play along once I see several sell threads week after week. I have better things to do than to participate as an unpaid consultant in their business enterprise.

roadrunner

zeebob

I'm still a newbie collector. Maybe not as newbie as I was a year or two ago, but newbie enough. I appreciate the efforts of the more senior members in helping me. They've helped me select and learn to use a camera and editing software (gimp). They've helped me learn about avoiding problem coins. They've helped me learn about what types of slabs are out there. They've helped me dispose of bullion at a couple of different places. The senior members have shared their experiences with various vendors (some good, some not).

In return, I try to share the meager knowledge I've picked up. I have sponsored a few give-a-ways. Started a few threads that people seem to enjoy (and others that were completely ignored).

Members here share and celebrate joyous occasions and share and mourn sad events.

I have bought and sold on BST. Met some very interesting people on BST and then latter in real life. I've learned of coin shows. Had lunch with a few members.

I like our little online community.

There will always be fly-by-nighters that just want to turn a fast buck here or there. But there are newbies that will hang with us and contribute to our little community. Sometimes when I think I don't feel like helping a newbie (not that I can help all the much being pretty new myself to the hobby), I remind myself that if no one had taken the time to be nice to me when I was zeebob(1) then I would have had far LESS enjoyment of the hobby over the last year or two. Then I try and post something helpful and nice.

I don't really have anyone in RL that I can share my hobby with (well except for a couple of forum members that I now count as friends), but here... here, I can share my hobbie with others and they with me and that my friends is a lot of fun!

Brighten up. Enjoy life. And thank you (especially the senior members here like RYK and Broadstruck and others) for helping to make this place a very comfortable, educational, interesting and fun place to hang out.

Cheers,

Bob

Edited for spelling

Geotovore

I think I'll spend my first post just to say a quick hello to everyone, and that I'll mostly be lurking instead of asking a bunch of questions.

SkyMan

Hey RYK, why don't you tell us what you really think?

EDITED TO ADD: Screwed up and hit the wrong carriage return so the above got posted to the board when it should have just been the first paragraph.

Anyhow, as to helping newbies, I like Franklins, and if they want to talk about Franklins I'm happy to help. If the newbies are whiny little sh1ts, it becomes real obvious very quickly and toodle-oo for helping them. OTOH, if they want to learn, in the "I'm interested in coins as coins" mode, then I'm more than happy to help. After all, I figure anybody that turns to me for advice really DOES need help.

Hi Geotovore! Welcome to the boards!

ProofArtworkonCircs

<<I think I'll spend my first post just to say a quick hello to everyone, and that I'll mostly be lurking instead of asking a bunch of questions.>>

Welcome! And if you have questions, ask away.

WoodenJefferson

Gee, you know what, we sort of had the same problem with people at work like this. Teach them a few things and they quickly turned around and acted like experts on the subject. Hmmmmm….those individuals were soon left in the dust and nobody, I mean nobody, wanted to help them in the future.

Those who take and do not give will soon enough wear out their welcome…most can see through their veil of deception.


add: Welcome aboard there Geotovore

Geotovore

Thank you. I like to think that I can tread water when it comes to numismatics, and prefer to read everyday conversation between two collectors than dates, prices, et cetera.

However, I do have a question regarding my avatar. Is the reason why I can't select my own is because I'm brand spanking new?

Type2

<< <i>Thank you. I like to think that I can tread water when it comes to numismatics, and prefer to read everyday conversation between two collectors than dates, prices, et cetera.

However, I do have a question regarding my avatar. Is the reason why I can't select my own is because I'm brand spanking new? >>

Did you not read the post on here your a newbe dont ask so many qustions. Just kidding ask all you want I dont know but some one will tell you and to the nut house, Type2.

notwilight

Thinking about it more....I haven't seen all the nubie threads as I've been busy. But I try to hit the copper threads. I responded to one by FEC and one about the "Haunting" variety that turned out to be common. I even PMed that guy and offered to help with authentication if he wanted me to take it to the show and ask the experts before it got wierd. So these two flamed out and augured in but that hasn't been enough to cause me much concern yet. I'm just writing those two off to experience.

--Jerry

RNCHSN

I can relate to this.

I don't always reply as very often someone else has already expressed a similar opinion to mine, but sometimes I have to just go away for a while...

WoodenJefferson

<< <i>Thank you. I like to think that I can tread water when it comes to numismatics, and prefer to read everyday conversation between two collectors than dates, prices, et cetera.

However, I do have a question regarding my avatar. Is the reason why I can't select my own is because I'm brand spanking new? >>



There is what is called an "Avatar Load" day...gee around the middle of the month, like the 15th (someone will know the specific date) on that day for like 24 hours, you can load your own avatar. Make sure it's shrunk to the right size...again I don't have specifics, it's like 50 kb or the program will reject it.

Usually someone yells out that day or the day before, so it looks like you have a couple of weeks to get ready.

~Woody~

RNCHSN

However, I do have a question regarding my avatar. Is the reason why I can't select my own is because I'm brand spanking new?

I LIKE your avatar!

.........and welcome!

richbeat

WoodenJefferson is correct. It's the 15th of each month. Someone will usually post a reminder just before the 15th. I believe it's limited to just one day because, in the past, some members got a little carried away with what they uploaded.

Geotovore

Thanks, I look forward to contributing what little knowledge of numismatics I have in the future.

I have been collecting seriously for roughly a year, and still getting a feel for what exactly I want to collect. It's easy to be stretched thin.

Elcontador

As Bear said, this is an internet forum. You pick and choose which threads you wish to open and to which you choose to respond.

I'll PM someone who has questions posted re a series about which I think I have some knowledge he / she should know before spending serious money on such coins (ie., AT'd Unc. CBH coins).

I don't do BS & T. For all I know, Saddam Hussein's ghost is selling coins there.

Anyone who thinks he can jump into numismatics and make a quick buck is hoping he finds people to whom he can sell who are bigger fools than he is. I have radar for people like this and avoid them.

It's a bit OT, but I'll mention this anyway. My biggest pet peeve is people who don't know how to grade coins, buy a coin which is either marginal for its slabbed grade, or overgraded, pay greysheet bid for the coin, and thinks he got a rip when he really got a financial kick in the a@@. I see it all of the time.

melvin289

I used to be on the board under another name but due to a computer change at work I had to change I.D.'s. I had been a member since 2005 and had 1800 odd posts before I lost that I.D. When this happened I posted on the board what had happened and gave both names and felt I had done all I could to remain in my usual semi-good standing. By the way, I used to be on here as rmoss. If I ask a question it is legitimate and I am not trying to profit from your knowledge except for the good of the hobby. I have never sold a coin and once I get my hands on a coin it is mine and I intend to keep it.

The reason I am posting this is that my post count is like 290 but I am not new here.

Ron

morgansforever

I'm going on the flip and welcome newbs and their questions. Newbs coming in are
essential to the survival of the hobby. Imagine for a moment if no newbs came into the hobby?
How long would the hobby last? I consider myself a newb, but search my inquiry before generating a thread.
scott

Walkerguy21D

I do not mind helping anyone on the forum when I'm able to, and though very experienced in SOME areas of numismatics, there are plenty of areas that others here have helped me with, directly or indirectly. So I still view most of my experiences overall as win-win.

MidLifeCrisis

People sometimes do things we wish they wouldn't do. Try not to let it bother you so much.

lunytune2

I am not new to the hobby , but new(er) to the collecting area that I have chosen ... GOLD . Sorry for the inconvienience RYK but I look up to you and respect your oppinion very highly ... I would not ask for prices to sell on the BST ... just the forums vast knowledge .

jsf

cool it, or we'll get to talking about who really needs help around here

lkenefic

We can pick and choose who we decide to help, but we don't have the luxury of choosing the outcomes. I think it comes down to how we perceive people. If the perception is a positive one, genuine... I tend to help.

earlyAurum

Being a newbie, I hope that is this is not the impression I am making to the veterans on the forum. This forum is a great place to learn about coins, the coin market and the politics of the coin market. I have noticed that the politics is very dirty sometimes. This can be said for both newbies and veterans. I can excuse the newbies but not the veterans. This is just the reality of the hobby/business. I still think that this is a wonderful hobby with some really nice people. I hope that the more experienced guys continue to help me and others like me.
earlyAurum

DoubleEagle59

<< <i>I am growing tired of new members who come here, ask a whole lot of questions about coins they are about to purchase, how much to pay for them, what are their grades, are they nice for the grade, whether they should send them in for grading (or regrading), etc., and then a week later have them for sale on the BST or on ebay or both. FEC was the master of this, although I have seen many others do the same, including one seller who is currently on the front page of the BST selling some gold coins.

Does anyone else feel the same way? Or am I just getting old and cranky (with no offense to kranky)? >>



I don't know,

I may be guilty of this the odd time,

I'm not a newbie, but I do often ask for grading advice and sometimes list the same coin on the BST.

I may have a better excuse though because here in Canada there is no reliable source for grading US coins and sending them to the US TPG's has proven very costly, time consuming and very difficult (with customs and insurance).

I enjoy the 'grading opinions needed' postings.

It's a fun way to learn grading (even though it's from a picture).

And If they decide to sell it later on the BST, I'm not bothered at all by that.

terribleredmonster

I'm not trying to defend anybody's actions specifically as I am not personally aware of the people RYK is referencing in the OP, but I do feel that the bottom line for everybody in the end is that coins are money. Some of us are more susceptible to the consequences of that view (ie: quickly selling newps) than others due to income. There is a pretty wide income disparity on this forum between the best and worst paid amongst us and while I certainly don't believe that money buys happiness it does buy far nicer coins.

Some people make bad or inadvisable decisions regarding their money essentially gambling on coins. If they lose they pick up the pieces and do it again. If they win they roll the profits into material they otherwise may never have been able to acquire. Is this a smart or even healthy way to pursue this hobby? Probably not, but we're talking about the same types of people that speculate in stocks and real estate without the proper research or know how - these ones just happen to have been attracted to numismatics.

Other people (take me as an example) have a pretty modest lifestyle and devote most of their "extra" money to coins. I get by pretty well in general, but there have been a few times when I had to sell from my collection to save my a$$. Because of the way I pursue collecting my most recent purchase always tends to be my nicest and most valuable coin. That means that when push comes to shove my newest coin is usually the first to go because it will bring me the most money and will be easily salable. I even had one occasion on which I had to sell my entire collection and wait a couple of years to start again. Say what you will about these habits, that they aren't wise, that there are far safer things to do with my money, etc., but my coins never lost me nearly so much money as stocks and mutual funds have lost for many I know over the last two years. The biggest benefit of having my long term money in coins, IMHO, is that I actually get to enjoy it while I have it.

So please remember when you see behavior that seems crass, disingenuous or ill advised that on some level to everybody coins are money. To those of us that aren't exactly flush that concept is impossible to ignore. A person's income directly affects how they collect and oftentimes how long they hold on to what they collect.

Gemineye

<< <i>What is killing my interest in helping newbies here >>


We have had our share of Newbie deception too many times on this board..It seems to be a problem that when one joins the forum there is also an alt and later we find out that person has deceived us somehow.We have listened to too many stories of their one sided deception coming here trying to help them resolve their issues only later finding out ...they're the ones that are the tricksters....

crypto79

When I was new(er) my first question was how to tell the proof dies from the cir ones on a double eagle. I was contacted by an authority on the subject who walked me through it, that's pretty cool. That being said most of the stuff that comes out of people mouths on the forum or in real life is pointless nonsense and its part of the voyage to sift through it all. For every lesson thread there will be 9 grade my coin and CAC is good/bad ones.

Trime

"Or am I just getting old and cranky (with no offense to kranky)?"
Possible!
It is my experience that:
Help is best given without anticipation of reward or thanks.
If you feel that what is requested is used for purposes that you do not endorse-refrain.

RYK

I was genuinely excited to see a new forum member interested in collecting 19th century gold coins. On the flip side, I was equally disappointed to see that the new member was feigning interest just to flip some coins on the BST.