Bruce nailed it. Almost all slabbed AU 50 - AU 55 Heraldic Eagle Bust $s I've seen imo were problem coins which were net graded. Virtually all of them would have been bagged if they were Morgan $s.
Imo, with many, the centers were too white, and were obviously cleaned. Others (like this one) had unnatural color. Virtually all of them had far better detail than an AU 50 grade would indicate. Many had a not quite right gunmetal color, as if something was done to the coin and it subsequently retoned.
If you enjoy collecting problem coins and have lots of money to spend, this is the series for you.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
The coin has too much meat (detail) for the AU-50 grade. It must have been net graded for originality issues. I've seen many of these coins that have been net graded, including a few that had initials lightly scratched into the surfaces.
Here are two pieces from my collection. NGC over graded both by a little.
This 1799 is in an AU-55 holder.
And NGC gave this one an AU-58. This is an 1800 Bolender 20 and tied for the finest known for the variety. The obverse is the Bolender book plate coin. Some how I lost the reverse picture of this piece when it was raw. I've owned this piece for 33 years.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Holy smokes, I may not know the series but I was 8 points too high! Glad I was not the only one in my boat. Anyone got a 58 to post? Sure would be nice to see them side by side.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
<< <i>Holy smokes, I may not know the series but I was 8 points too high! Glad I was not the only one in my boat. Anyone got a 58 to post? Sure would be nice to see them side by side.
bob >>
Bob, Don't feel bad. The OP's coin is undergraded, there's no doubt about it. It should be in an AU-55 holder, at the very least 53. And this also holds up from what member's here thought as well.
TDN, I feel you are very much wrong here. The TPG's just plainly did not grade this coin accurately. There's plenty of luster as well as nice, soft, toning which only adds to eye appeal. There's very little evidence of wear, anywhere, on the coin. There's no signs which point to this example needed to be net graded.
When compared to a Hesselgesser piece, this coin is laughably graded at 50, and 55 would be very fair.
<< <i>Here is an example of the same variety Bust Dollar. This example comes from the Hesselgesser collection and is graded PCGS - 55
What do you think now?
>>
Before purchasing this coin, I actually sat with Dr. Hesselgesser and we compared these two coins to each other. We determined that mine was just a little later example of the die state and that the coin was better than the grade assigned. He like the coin very much and recommended that I purchase it......No doubt he would have bought it if I had passed.
<< <i>All the higher AU coins posted have significantly less wear at the bottom of the tailfeathers near the rim on the OP coin in question. >>
That could just have easily been (weakness in) strike, as opposed to wear. Other areas of the reverse design that usually show obvious wear on mid-to-low range AU examples, do not appear to show any on the OP's coin.
Stone - Dr. H's coin in AU 55 seems to be original to me from the image, unlike the coin under discussion. Original Draped Bust $s are few and far between.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
It may be a tad undergraded if looking only at the wear (compared to other pieces)
But, it was net graded before the genuine service was available. If resubmitted today to try and get 58+ you would be taking a chance on the color and that it would end up in a Genuine holder.
If the OPs intent was to show an undergraded DBD, fine, but there's more to the story here.
This just shows that it's impossible to come up with a single number that adequately describes strike, luster, contact marks, wear and color (for both obverse and reverse)
I came late to this thread and the grade was posted but... I agree that it was net graded for what should be AT. I guess it is market acceptable judging by the predominance of opinions. I am surprised that so many assigned a MS to the coin. It is not; I suspect many would have had a different opinion with coin in hand.
Comments
Slabbed at 63 is my estimation.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Whatever you are, be a good one. ---- Abraham Lincoln
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
<< <i>Undergraded or not? >>
You're the only one who's seen it in hand, so let's ask you... is it?
Empty Nest Collection
I was thinking 55, when I first saw it. Quite nice!
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Surprised it went that low. 53 would seem reasonable.
Do you think it was net graded for the dipping/AT?
To be honest, the new picture shows some wear that I couldn't see before due to the angle.
Strike and detail is min AU55.
grader needs glasses
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<< <i>The coin has been net graded for the questionable color. Pure and simple. >>
I'd probably agree it might have been net graded for something...... But you can tell all that from an image? I thought we couldn't do that.
I'll add this in advance..........
Imo, with many, the centers were too white, and were obviously cleaned. Others (like this one) had unnatural color. Virtually all of them had far better detail than an AU 50 grade would indicate. Many had a not quite right gunmetal color, as if something was done to the coin and it subsequently retoned.
If you enjoy collecting problem coins and have lots of money to spend, this is the series for you.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
The coin has too much meat (detail) for the AU-50 grade. It must have been net graded for originality issues. I've seen many of these coins that have been net graded, including a few that had initials lightly scratched into the surfaces.
Here are two pieces from my collection. NGC over graded both by a little.
This 1799 is in an AU-55 holder.
And NGC gave this one an AU-58. This is an 1800 Bolender 20 and tied for the finest known for the variety. The obverse is the Bolender book plate coin. Some how I lost the reverse picture of this piece when it was raw. I've owned this piece for 33 years.
Glad I was not the only one in my boat. Anyone got a 58 to post?
Sure would be nice to see them side by side.
bob
<< <i>Holy smokes, I may not know the series but I was 8 points too high!
Glad I was not the only one in my boat. Anyone got a 58 to post?
Sure would be nice to see them side by side.
bob >>
Bob,
Don't feel bad. The OP's coin is undergraded, there's no doubt about it.
It should be in an AU-55 holder, at the very least 53. And this also holds up from what member's here thought as well.
TDN, I feel you are very much wrong here. The TPG's just plainly did not grade this coin accurately.
There's plenty of luster as well as nice, soft, toning which only adds to eye appeal.
There's very little evidence of wear, anywhere, on the coin. There's no signs which point to this example needed to be net graded.
When compared to a Hesselgesser piece, this coin is laughably graded at 50, and 55 would be very fair.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
<< <i>The coin has been net graded for the questionable color. Pure and simple. >>
TDN, THat looks like an older slab before the Genuine service came to be. So today it would go genuine rather than net grading?
--Jerry
This example comes from the Hesselgesser collection and is graded PCGS - 55
What do you think now?
And yet my guess was mid AU and the reason stated for my guess was net grading the color. I may be wrong, but I'm not 'very much wrong'.
Prior to the current crackdown, coins were silently net graded ALL the time. Especially 18th century bust material.
<< <i>Here is an example of the same variety Bust Dollar.
This example comes from the Hesselgesser collection and is graded PCGS - 55
What do you think now?
Before purchasing this coin, I actually sat with Dr. Hesselgesser and we compared these two coins to each other. We determined that mine was just a little later example of the die state and that the coin was better than the grade assigned. He like the coin very much and recommended that I purchase it......No doubt he would have bought it if I had passed.
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
It is still a decent coin and without a doubt 50 is is a net grade.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>All the higher AU coins posted have significantly less wear at the bottom of the tailfeathers near the rim on the OP coin in question. >>
That could just have easily been (weakness in) strike, as opposed to wear. Other areas of the reverse design that usually show obvious wear on mid-to-low range AU examples, do not appear to show any on the OP's coin.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It may be a tad undergraded if looking only at the wear (compared to other pieces)
But, it was net graded before the genuine service was available. If resubmitted today to try and get 58+
you would be taking a chance on the color and that it would end up in a Genuine holder.
If the OPs intent was to show an undergraded DBD, fine,
but there's more to the story here.
This just shows that it's impossible to come up with a single number
that adequately describes strike, luster, contact marks, wear and color (for both obverse and reverse)
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This is becoming silly. I'd rather the services just got honest and labeled them "Soft Market" and "Strong Market" and had done with it.
I would be extremely happy to buy these coins if this is what all AU50's looked like.
how anyone can grade that au50 is beyond me.
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I agree that it was net graded for what should be AT.
I guess it is market acceptable judging by the predominance of opinions.
I am surprised that so many assigned a MS to the coin. It is not; I suspect many would have had a different opinion with coin in hand.
<< <i>In 7,000 words or less, explain "grading." >>
Two words:
Subjective Opinion
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
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