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The 1952 Bowman Football Set Registry Collectors Thread

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  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yak, when are we going to see some scans from you image

    I know you got some gems tucked away waiting to strike the set registry!
  • BigDaddyBowmanBigDaddyBowman Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Bigdaddy,
    I think you got robbed on some of your crossovers, your Paul Brown a 7 in my opion and the Gifford looks nicer than a 6 also.

    When you send cards to SGC, do they typically cross everything to the exact grade? Just curious, because I've never had any luck crossing SGC to PSA. I would be lucky to get 1 out of 6 to cross over to the same grade. >>



    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Since I don't plan on selling them anytime soon, I will probably leave as is...but I am sure some time in the future I am going to crack and submit them raw.


    I have pretty good luck crossing over in slab and getting same grade...a few increase and a few decreases along the way. Ijust sent in 27 cards and 17 came back same grade...with o bumps and 10 min. grade not met.
  • Well, I guess we have to cut Yak Diesel a little slack for not dropping some scans, etc. on the Registry. I know he was out of town for a while and just got home recently. Yak, note that I did write "a little slack". image

    Paul, as for your latest wins posted here two days ago - sure, the Connor looks good, agreed. Also for me - the central image on your Joe Perry card looks terrific. It appears bright, PD free, and the jersey, articulation, and detail are vivid and saturated with color. To me, you found a real gem in the thicket on this HOFer. Nice!

    If you haven't had a chance lately, check out Perkdog's Registry Set. He's got his ranking up to 19th, includes scans for every card shown, and even has comments accompanying some cards. Truly one of the best sets to view and moving up the ranks fast. Nice job, Paul.

    --------------------------------------------

    I recently read something interesting lately that I shared with Yak the other day. That is - that the 1952 Bowman Large #144 Jim Lansford is the Most Valuable PostWar Football Card. I knew it was valuable but had never even considered that it has that lofty distinction. Doing some checking around, I believe this to be true. Yes, a common card of a player wearing a college uniform is more valuable than the 1958 Topps #62 Jim Brown RC in most or all grades.
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Here's a few I picked up from last weeks set break on Ebay. The Van Brocklin doesnt have a pen or pencil mark anywhere,it is a slight indentation on his forehead which is only noticeable under light at a tilt.The Baugh isn't centered very well but it has nice color to it.

    image
    image
    image
  • Wish I could put up scans of some of my new cards, but I just moved and my scanner is boxed up and haven't been able to locate the box for 2 weeks and counting.
    Here's a scan of my one of the nicest centered Donovan's that you'll see , too bad its a Small.

    image
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    First off, that is the nicest Donovan in existence or close to it! Thanks for posting the scan, gorgeous card regardless of it being a Small version.

    Thanks for the comments Keith, Im sure you checking out my headline to my set you see I give you Kudos- if it wasnt for your arrival here I might not be doing the set again! Your posts & scans got me back into it and Im happy for that.


    Lets welcome Jake "bluemarlin" to the clan, he has his set registered under JPM and has some banging HOF'ers in there already. I look forward to seeing all of our sets grow and keeping this thread up on the first page!
  • Dan, I thought I had a good looking Donovan but yours is ridiculous. Not sure I'd really care whether it's a small or not. Killer is killer.
    Collecting HOF RC's in hockey, baseball, football and basketball. A fool's errand some have said.
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Has anyone taken a look at Memory Lane's auction that starts Jan 22nd, and ends Feb 6th?

    They've got a PSA 9 Large Jim Lansford in itimage


    Steve
  • macboubemacboube Posts: 336 ✭✭
    Vincent from down under!..............how are you mate? How's the golf game? I see you are active on the football boards now. Still pursuing all four HOF rookies? As they say in Ca., you got huevos man. Next time you come to the states, bring your sticks, I promised you a round at Riviera or LACC.

    Jim
  • Howdy Jim. Golf has taken a back seat for a while -- just days away from child #2. Will still manage a round here and there though. Spent a week on Maui and Lanai in October and just about broke a valve playing so much. Definitely still toiling away on the HOF RC's with the 4 sports. Getting there -- slowly, very slowly.

    The offer is also open over here -- Royal Melbourne, Kingston Heath are waiting for your visit.
    Collecting HOF RC's in hockey, baseball, football and basketball. A fool's errand some have said.
  • macboubemacboube Posts: 336 ✭✭
  • macboubemacboube Posts: 336 ✭✭
    Vince

    Congrats on your 2nd kid.

    You got me drooling with Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath.

    Cheers,

    Jim
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BANG! I just pulled the trigger on an insanely tough HOF Rookie for the set! image

    Absolutely pumped about finding this gem..


    image
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Beautiful Stydahar Paul!!!!!

    Congratulations image


    Steve
  • Had my eye on the Stydahar as well, congrats perkdog on being faster on the draw!
    I'd rather invest in cards than stocks.
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Paul...SWEET pickup!! very tough card out of the way for you. image
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Recent pickup of mine.

    image
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Jake very nice Gifford! One that looks very familiar to me image

    That card stacks up pretty nice to alot of PSA 7's that Ive seen, honestly I never would have parted with it had I not been given an opportunity for the PSA 8 I bought recently.

    Your set is moving along very nicely!



    Mr.Mazzeo- Thank You! Once I found the Stydahar I knew I had to move on it fiercly and quickly, it was a stressful full hour I spent trying to contact Dave Kjeer to work out an "offline" deal.

    Dave happens to be the owner of the current #1 set tabbed "Short Print Nightmare" The guy is a master of this set and a great guy.
  • aconteaconte Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭
    Nice cards guys!

    aconte
  • It looks like Perkdog is straight-up P-Money again. Dude, way to rock the Stydahar! Not an easy fish to land on the river bank. Now come on, how many times did you use the "What If" feature for your Stydahar purchase? Perhaps once before buying it, and then again after consummating the deal? image

    Perk, to answer your inquiry - yes, I see what you wrote about me in your set's description and that's kind of you to write it. I don't know how I can possibly be an influence on others to buy cards. I just saw that another collector ("Art's HOFers" in the Football HOF RCs Registry) wrote a similar thing in his set's description. I don't get it, but that's cool.

    Thanks for adding in the Gifford 5 scan and congrats on that one, Jake. In any grade, Giff's iconic and enduring grimace of fierce competition shines through. You're really banging out some HOFers lately.

    Well, it looks like what could be this set's most beautiful card will sell tomorrow in a very high grade. I wonder if the upcoming Memory Lane Big Game Auction's attention will overshadow this remarkable card?

    "Peacing out" with one of the aforementioned Stydahar's contemporaries that I bought privately last month. Is the color on '52 Bowman Rams cards perpetually cool or what?

    image
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Keith,thank you for all your scans also,what a collection you have. Youre right about the Gifford,it truly is a special card. I continue to look foward to everyone's progression in their sets.Awesome thread guys!!
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Picked up a pair of very tough SP's

    I love the expression on Charlie "Choo Choo" Justice!

    imageimage
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I expect it to slow down a bit but I can honestly say I dont believe ive ever seen so many of these cards come up for sale like they have been recently.

    Maybe I was wrong back in September of this thread when I said it will drive you crazy trying to find some of these "Tough" cards.
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I expect it to slow down a bit but I can honestly say I dont believe ive ever seen so many of these cards come up for sale like they have been recently.

    Maybe I was wrong back in September of this thread when I said it will drive you crazy trying to find some of these "Tough" cards. >>





    What's that line?

    "Be careful what you wish for!" image


    The main problem with all these cards coming out at once is that very few people can try for them all image

    I've always liked the Ram cards the best, but now, after seeing all the Redskin cards, they're quickly moving up on my list image


    Steve
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I expect it to slow down a bit but I can honestly say I dont believe ive ever seen so many of these cards come up for sale like they have been recently.

    Maybe I was wrong back in September of this thread when I said it will drive you crazy trying to find some of these "Tough" cards. >>





    What's that line?

    "Be careful what you wish for!" image


    The main problem with all these cards coming out at once is that very few people can try for them all image

    I've always liked the Ram cards the best, but now, after seeing all the Redskin cards, they're quickly moving up on my list image


    Steve >>




    Steve almost all of the time whenever I hear people comment on these cards its about how great the Rams & Redskins cards look and I agree as well.

    As far as all these cards coming out at once I have scored some really great bargains because of it, I believe some sellers left some money on the table launching so many auctions all at once.
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Another recent pickup.

    image
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Also won this Rote last night on the Bay.

    image
  • SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Also won this Rote last night on the Bay.

    image >>





    Still the only man to quarterback the Chargers to a Championship (1963 AFL) imageimage

    Beautiful card BTW (probably #2 to Baugh)!!! image

    Steve
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Thanks, I like the looks of also, kinda reminds me of a comic book background. image
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Thanks, I like the looks of also, kinda reminds me of a comic book background. image >>




    image It does! A "BAM" or something added would look exactly like something out of an old Marvel or DC Comic!


    Again Jake great looking cards man!
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Thanks, I like the looks of also, kinda reminds me of a comic book background. image >>




    image It does! A "BAM" or something added would look exactly like something out of an old Marvel or DC Comic!


    Again Jake great looking cards man! >>



    LMAO!! Yeah I was thinking the exact same thing. image
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Ok guys, let me know if I'm over doing it with the scans and I will let up. I wanted to show this card as it's probably the nicest looking PSA 5 I have ever seen/owned.

    image
  • Wow, that is a nice Towler, does it have a wax stain on back ?

    That might be a nice crack and submit if it doesn't.

    Keep the scans coming, thats what makes this thread so great !!!!!


    By the way Pdog, that is a great looking Stydahar. I looked at the scan of the 8 that recently sold on Ebay and your 7 is almost as nice.
    That might be as nice a centered Stydahar out there, I've seen centered smalls, but never a large. Thanks for sharing the scan.
  • BigDaddyBowmanBigDaddyBowman Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭
    Perk!!!! You Dirty Dog!


    Outstanding pick up on that Stydahar!

    Lock up your women and children people ...Perk is back in full swing hunting those 52 Large.


    Very nice Paul..very nice..
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Yakbigham,Thank you,the card has a small surface hairline crease on the back which is barely noticeable. Ok I will keep the scans coming. image
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Added a pic of the Towler back,I guess the surface wrinkle shows up a lil better in the scan than in person. It's right between football and picture on bottom.

    image
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Yakbigham,Thank you,the card has a small surface hairline crease on the back which is barely noticeable. Ok I will keep the scans coming. image >>




    That is a shame because that looks like it should be in a 7 + holder! Very nice looking card either way.

    And YES you must keep the scans coming Jake, its great to view your set with the pics as well.

    I cant tell you how many times I open this thread and check out the set registry just to see the cards, GREAT STUFF!
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is a cool read about Deacon Dan Towler and the Los Angeles Rams backfield..

    Los Angeles Rams "Bull Elephant" backfield
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Great read thanks Perk! I like his words "Often you need only to make a first down, not a touchdown."
  • aconteaconte Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭
    If I remember correctly, Tank Younger and Dan Towler died very close together in time. Doesn't really have to
    do with anything but just some unrelated trivia.

    aconte
  • Paul, thanks for investigating potentially rebalancing this great set's Grade Weights. There has been more than one time where I've found some of the Grade Weights seemingly out-of-whack.

    I see that Mile High Card Company's 1952 Large Baugh PSA 8.5 sold for a rather healthy price. Being a Redskin card, it sure is a beauty. What are others' favorite-looking cards by franchise? For me it's really close between #1 and #2. Mine are:

    #1) Redskins
    #2) Rams
    #3) Giants
    #4) Packers

    On a related note, here's a pickup that I made for my Registry Set a few weeks ago. It represents my second-favorite team for eye appeal, and is an upgrade to my former Waterfield 7. It is just remarkable that many of this set's cards crescendo with almost-too-good-to-be-true combinations of ingredients that have all neatly fallen into place on the same card: color, composition, balance, and beautiful artistic design:

    image
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    That Waterfield is a stunner.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Paul, thanks for investigating potentially rebalancing this great set's Grade Weights. There has been more than one time where I've found some of the Grade Weights seemingly out-of-whack. >>




    Keith after speaking with Jason about possible changes to the Grade weights it sounds like it might be an uphill battle. Unfortunataly it sounds like we would need to find realized prices in PSA 8 vs SMR to even start talking about Grade Weight issues and that alone makes it pretty much impossible as we all know that there are little to no sales of PSA 8 cards that I think deserve attention.

    It would have to be a group effort at some point I think, if the guys that collect this set might be able to put together some ideas on this it would be great and possibly we could make a case for Joe O to take a look at it. I plan on contacting him personally to see what he would say about doing this, once I speak with him I will post it here and if you guys are interested in pursuing this then im all for it.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For those interested and missed the thread I made I am copying & pasting my idea and the Jasp's suggestion below..


    ...........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Here is why Im thinking some changes need to be made.

    I look at a Non HOF'er Tank Younger who has a Weight of 1.00 yet his cards are low pop's- out of 58 cards graded there are only 14 PSA 7's and 8 PSA 8's with only 1 in 8.5 Grade

    Now I look at another NON HOF'er Kyle Rote who has the same number of cards graded ( 58 ) with 11 PSA 7's and 10 PSA 8's with 1 PSA 8.5 Grade & 1 PSA 9 yet his Weight is at 3.00

    Looking at HOF'ers let me compare 2 others..

    Sammy Baugh and Steve Van Buren both have the same weight of 5.00.. Comparing the Grades below you can see the abundance of Baugh cards -

    Baugh PSA 7 = 34 PSA 8 = 20
    Van Buren PSA 7 = 21 PSA 8 = 3

    .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

    Perk,

    I update the grade weights on the HOF sets annually, so YES they will re-look and make changes if necessary.

    That being said, throw any and all sensible arguments you could make about POP and VCP and realized prices. lol.. I've been down that road many times already and the bottom line is SMR is the only thing PSA will use as a measuring stick as to what should be weighted what in the sets.

    Last year, I went through the process of putting together a spreadsheet using VCP prices in PSA 8 for the entire HOF RC set. Trying to get the weights to more accurately reflect reality. The Registry team had no issue with it, but once it got to Joe O. he wanted to stick with SMR. The gist being, send in updates for the SMR to try and get the SMR to reflect reality and hence the weights would be closer to the truth. It's worked in some cases, and in others not..Either way, it ends up being a very slow process year to year.

    So my advice to you (and by no means do you have to follow it...lol) would be to e-mail the Registry staff. Throw out your proposition and be prepared to explain your reasoning. But again, as I have been told repeatedly..lol...Grade weights are formulated based on SMR value in PSA 8.

    Good luck, maybe you're the guy to finally shake the foundation and get the weights more realistic. I think they are tired of me asking for sure!

    Jason

  • That's some cool stuff above about Tank Younger and Dan Towler. BlueMarlin, thanks for the compliments on my Waterfield upgrade. Paul, I sent you a PM about reviewing the Set Grade Weights.

    Even when these cards were newly issued in 1952, it appears that there was a positive reaction to the "Large" Bowman versions. This and more frame the opening of an article that appears on PSA's site, written by Greg Bussineau in 2004:

    **********************************************
    The 1952 Bowman "Large" football card set was printed and issued by the Bowman Gum Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Bowman had previously issued sets in 1948, 1950, and 1951. In 1952 Bowman issued two separate football sets, a "Small" and a "Large". Bowman continued to produce and issue sets in 1953, 1954, and 1955.

    Interestingly, the 1952 Bowman "Large" football set was actually a test issue. Bowman's primary football set in 1952 featured the same identical 144 cards as the "Large" issue, only the size was the then standard 2-1/16" x 3-1/8". Apparently, in response to Topps' "Large" baseball card set issued during the spring and summer of 1952, Bowman decided to try its own "Large" set in the fall and winter of that year. Both sizes of football sets were released at the same time. Obviously, the larger cards were a hit with collectors since Bowman adopted the new size for not only all of their subsequent football card sets, but also for all of their future baseball sets.

    The 1952 Bowman "Large" football card set is truly a classic. It's the postwar football set. The 1952 Bowman "Large" set is to football what the 1952 Topps set is to baseball. This set consists of 144 different cards. The fronts of the cards feature a beautiful, full-color drawing of the player, along with the player's name in a white pennant and a full-color team logo. The backs feature a text write-up on each player. Notable rookie cards in the set include Hall-of-Famers: Frank Gifford, Hugh McElhenny, Andy Robustelli, Ollie Matson, and Gino Marchetti. Also, the set features the last Bowman cards issued of all-time greats Steve Van Buren, Bob Waterfield, and Sammy Baugh.

    Today's collectors cherish bowman's football card sets. They are all very attractive and very popular. Also, since football was not nearly as popular as baseball in the 1940s and 1950s, these cards were produced in much smaller quantities than their baseball counterparts. Today, Bowman football cards are extremely difficult to find in any significant quantity. Since Topps didn't start issuing football cards until 1955, Bowman had the market to themselves from 1950-1954. Therefore, the Bowman issues make up the heart of the "Golden Age" of football cards.


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  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    My newest addition to the crop of tough SP's that Ive been fortunate to land recently...


    image
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Another SP scratched off image

    image
  • Perk- That's a very nice Ronzani. Great eye appeal and centering for a 5. Another one of the very tough short prints.
    Baseball is my Pastime, Football is my Passion
  • bluemarlinbluemarlin Posts: 627 ✭✭✭
    Wow you're just a machine picking up those SP's!! way to go Perk,you're a definite motivator. image

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,633 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Jake!

    Im following the advice of the great Fabfrank! He once told me that when you see a tough card you got to pounce on it immediately, so Im following his advice.

    Im moving along as best as I can however after a while I will slow down a little as Ive "Pounced" on as many SP's as I can, there are some more but I doubt they will be offered anytime soon hence I will take a break and reload funds.
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