<< <i>"Gall" is thinking that this is a situation in ANY way "right". What a crock, and a such a lovely light it casts on coin dealers everywhere. Pfffffft. All kinds, it takes. >>
EPIC FAIL!
Had to use that. Walk a few miles in the shoes then judge.
Read my post on drywall buckets of mixed coins.
See the I Love Lucy Chocolate Factory episode for reference of current working conditions in a lot of the larger shops.
Walk people and have them tell 10 others about the terrible service in your shop all because you were searching for the needle in the haystack makes a lot of sense if you want to be as extinct as icecream in the Sahara.
And what do you do for a living?? I'm sure I can find an ethics violation of some sort. And NO I was just following order from my superiors. Thats been done before.......
<< <i>the part about the jewelry was the part that puzzled me and puts a sort of sad, ironic twist on the whole thing. he had several pairs of earrings that i tried to examine and he wasn't really interested in knowing if they were gold, he just wanted to get an idea of what to give to each of his grand daughters. in fact, after he told me as much the second time i simply handed them to him when it became clear he hadn't intended to sell them as he'd first indicated.
Oh goodie goodie, we have a multi thousand dollar coin we paid $2.00 for. Sorry I don't buy the you don't have the time to look until after the customer leave.
see, i knew there would be the guys who think it's just another case of a dealer ripping a customer. fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time. >>
thats why i never feel bad when i pick through morgans and find key vams at the dealer's cases. i love it when the dealer buys in bulk, becuase they don't have time to look at everything.and they make plenty of mistakes ... was at my local coin shop today, lady comes in with lets says 6 coffee cans of mercury dimes !!!! that dealer let me buy one for not too much over spot, well so far, you guess it .i have already found one 21 in in at least xf . and i'm not even half way !!!!!
did you think the dealer should look at every coin ??? he would never make any money, becuase people would walk out of the store.
I hope you're right that it's authentic. Apparently the Boss wasn't testing you if he's sending it to ge graded.
I don't understand why PCGS book states counterfeits are below average, very baffling indeed for the 1901 s, very baffling. I think a lot of duped buyers would probably disagree with PCGS statement in regards to said coin.
I had a long time collector (collected around 60 yrs) that was selling me coins, all were raw. He had a 1901s in G. He knew the value was in the 5k range. I wasn't willing to pay that much for a coin that easily could've been counterfeited, via added mm. He had several other key date coins that he agreed to let me send to PCGS for grading prior to setting the prices. I don't remember now why, but the 1901s was never contemplated to be graded prior to the sale. He simply said he understood my hesitancy, he'd sell it to me for $900 and give me a written money back guarantee that it was geniune, that solved the issue for me since I had possession of several other key coins I was submitting as collateral. I don't know why he proposed that deal, it did make me very suspicious that it wasn't geniune. But, alas, it did grade out. Anyhoots, that's how I came to own mine. I did get a smokin deal, but he proposed the price, not me. For all you that think I ripped him ..... I purchased probably 200 coins or so, none even remotely close to melt value ....... I assure you that I ended up overpaying for many of those. Many of them I simply wanted for my collection, maybe he felt compassion for me since I overpaid on so many others, lol, who knows.
<<He simply said he understood my hesitancy, he'd sell it to me for $900 and give me a written money back guarantee that it was geniune, that solved the issue for me since I had possession of several other key coins I was submitting as collateral. I don't know why he proposed that deal, it did make me very suspicious that it wasn't geniune. But, alas, it did grade out. Anyhoots, that's how I came to own mine. I did get a smokin deal, but he proposed the price, not me. For all you that think I ripped him ..... I purchased probably 200 coins or so, none even remotely close to melt value ....... I assure you that I ended up overpaying for many of those. Many of them I simply wanted for my collection, maybe he felt compassion for me since I overpaid on so many others, lol, who knows. >>
Honestly that sounds more like a stolen coin than else. Why take $900 for a $5K coin, considering you are already sending coins from the lot in for grading? Makes no sense. Stolen or needed the cash very badly.
I see your point about possibly being stolen. I can clear that up I think. He had been collecting his whole life, buying coins from Dealers and apparently a whole slew of people he buy coins from, friends and family. Mind you back during his prime collecting days, there wasn't any clad coins in circulation. I met him at his apt. He had tons of coins and stamps, all very neatly organized in books, one of every date almost of almost every series. He had been a bachelor and always had disposable income. He's been handicapped for some time now, certainly not capable of carrying out a heist. In the end though, it was obvious to me he had invested in the wrong thing during his lifetime. Yes, he had an impressive collection of coins ..... but far from a rich man. He missed the boat of ever having bought real estate or any other investment. He did need the money ......... but sadly, not for himself, but for a family member.
Here is my take on it . Nobody can look down at Keets in this situation because in a case like this, you just do not have time to look up every date and mint mark of every coin in the grey sheet. Keets is not to blame here BECAUSE, Keets himself did not know the Barber quarter series well Enough to know the '01 S was THE key date . He admited he had to go look it up, SO , even if he spotted the '01 S upon initial inspection of the old man's coins, It would have meant very little to him at that time . My thinking is if you are going to be in charge of buying at a coin shop, you better educate yourself as to what the key dates are to all the major series. That just goes without saying. The blame here lies 100 % on the coin store owner for putting someone in charge of the buying who did not know the basics, as far as doing a quick scan for keys .
<< <i>On this day I decided to start with the G/VG Quarters and the first one I picked up was a 1901-S. Now remember, I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page..........................which is where my eyes popped out of the sockets!!!! >>
Seriously? You've worked in this coin shop for almost a year. You've collected coins for how long? You've been a member on these boards for 7 years and you don't know that an 01-S is a very valuable coin?
<< <i>He came in around noon and had several small coin purses.........We sorted through the coins first, >>
As you sorted you didn't think to check a few barber quarters, to see if any were dated 1901, 1896 or 1913, to see if there was an S on the reverse?
A handfull of Barbers Quarters and you didn't look to see if there was a 1901? I've never heard of a coin dealer not doing a quick scan of Barber Quarters for key dates.
Maybe that's why your boss has you doing the buying so he can claim ignorance.
<< <i> i know you might find it difficult to accept and understand that my conscience is clear and i have been sleeping well, >>
I'm sure your conscience is clear as to your purchase of the old fellows coins but as you reflect, how do you feel about the mistake you made and the impact that additional $8,000.00-$10,000.00 would have made in this gentlemans life?
Coin shops should be a place for the Average Joe to go to get an expert opinion and to be treated with honesty and integrity. They aren't pawn shops or flea markets.
No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty.
<< <i>No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty. >>
I'm in PA and have never had to show identification or sign anything.
<< <i>No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty. >>
I'm in PA and have never had to show identification or sign anything. >>
I thought it was the law, apparently it's just this shops practice? The shop is in Erie, and I live just outside of Erie. When selling, they always require the form to be signed, and I am ALMOST positive that I was told it was required to help police trace stolen property. I'm certainly confused now, and I'll ask about it the next time I stop there. They also require a form for the IRS if the sale is over $5000....
<< <i>No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty. >>
I'm in PA and have never had to show identification or sign anything. >>
I thought it was the law, apparently it's just this shops practice? The shop is in Erie, and I live just outside of Erie. When selling, they always require the form to be signed, and I am ALMOST positive that I was told it was required to help police trace stolen property. I'm certainly confused now, and I'll ask about it the next time I stop there. They also require a form for the IRS if the sale is over $5000.... >>
Some states require ID; some states don't. In many areas it is the local community in which requires ID. It is possible that the part of PA you live in requires it while other areas do not.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>the part about the jewelry was the part that puzzled me and puts a sort of sad, ironic twist on the whole thing. he had several pairs of earrings that i tried to examine and he wasn't really interested in knowing if they were gold, he just wanted to get an idea of what to give to each of his grand daughters. in fact, after he told me as much the second time i simply handed them to him when it became clear he hadn't intended to sell them as he'd first indicated.
Oh goodie goodie, we have a multi thousand dollar coin we paid $2.00 for. Sorry I don't buy the you don't have the time to look until after the customer leave.
see, i knew there would be the guys who think it's just another case of a dealer ripping a customer. fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time. >>
thats why i never feel bad when i pick through morgans and find key vams at the dealer's cases. i love it when the dealer buys in bulk, becuase they don't have time to look at everything.and they make plenty of mistakes ... was at my local coin shop today, lady comes in with lets says 6 coffee cans of mercury dimes !!!! that dealer let me buy one for not too much over spot, well so far, you guess it .i have already found one 21 in in at least xf . and i'm not even half way !!!!!
did you think the dealer should look at every coin ??? he would never make any money, becuase people would walk out of the store. >>
I don't think a dealer has time to look at every coin in a bulk sale, but I do feel they have an obligation to look at a quantity as small as the group brought in by this gentleman.
Like I said before a dealer could tell the customer we don't look for the good stuff, but if you would like to here is a list or a blue book.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Your reply to this comment speaks volumes about who you are as a person..
<< <i>Coin shops should be a place for the Average Joe to go to get an expert opinion and to be treated with honesty and integrity. They aren't pawn shops or flea markets. >>
But I see you went back and edited out all your comments... Nice....
Keets. I would use this whole thing to your advantage. This could actually be really good publicity for you guys. Call up your local NBC news station and let them know you purchased a coin from a guy recently. Because it was so worn, you didn't notice until after he left that it was really a rare silver quarter, worth thousands. You could ask for their help to locate the guy so you can pay him what the coin is really worth. Then, you can describe the guy. It would show your company to be an honest company, drawing new customers to your store.
<< <i>Keets. I would use this whole thing to your advantage. This could actually be really good publicity for you guys. Call up your local NBC news station and let them know you purchased a coin from a guy recently. Because it was so worn, you didn't notice until after he left that it was really a rare silver quarter, worth thousands. You could ask for their help to locate the guy so you can pay him what the coin is really worth. Then, you can describe the guy. It would show your company to be an honest company, drawing new customers to your store. >>
From what I understand, the coin is on its way to PCGS for Authentication as it would very foolish of the coin shop to run an ad regarding a "rare" coin which could end up being counterfeit.
However if the coin is deemed authentic, then perhaps the issue could be addressed. I'm sure Al would recognize this fellow if he were to respond (along with the hundreds of folks that will also respond).
Most of the negative folks that have replied to this thread have not even considered that the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag. There are, supposedly, more counterfeit versions of this coin out there than what was actually produced.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Most of the negative folks that have replied to this thread have not even considered that the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag. There are, supposedly, more counterfeit versions of this coin out there than what was actually produced. >>
Now now, can't let facts get in the way of a good whine...
<< <i><< then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag.>>
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless. >>
Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i><< then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag.>>
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless. >>
Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
>>
Lloyd (edited to say...oops...I mean Lee)... perhaps there might be some merit to the idea of requiring that all posters on the forum take and pass a reading comprehension exam before posting...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
The fair thing to do would be to split the profit with the previous owner, 50:50. Denying that he is due any portion of the windfall is not honorable, and denying that the dealer does not deserve a significant share of it is unrealistic and unreasonable. Turn it into a win-win situation and sleep better at night.
<< <i><< then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag.>>
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless. >>
Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
>>
Lloyd... perhaps there might be some merit to the idea of requiring that all posters on the forum take and pass a reading comprehension exam before posting... >>
Whose this Lloyd you are refering to?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>The fair thing to do would be to split the profit with the previous owner, 50:50. Denying that he is due any portion of the windfall is not honorable, and denying that the dealer does not deserve a significant share of it is unrealistic and unreasonable. Turn it into a win-win situation and sleep better at night. >>
Wow... hey keets... you drew out RYK...
Unfortunately... keets has deleted his posts to this thread...in one of the first ones, he stated that the old man chose to not leave his contact info with keets or the store...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Yes the coin could be a fake. So the dealer could say, before i pay you fair money for this ( 1000's of dollars) i need to be sure it is real. I am sure the old man could wait a few weeks for a chance at 1000's. The 2 dollar you gave him might have paid the parking meter. Although i would think most coin collectors and dealers could determine a real one from a fake one in hand in a matter of minutes. You guys are just fishing her saying the guy sold a fake coin. If he knew it was worth money he would not have sold it for 2 bucks. He may or his parents may have gotten it in change 75 years ago.
What if a old man walked into the store and wanted a barber quarter, you show him a common date VG worth 5 bucks that you tell him it is 5000 dollars and a great investment since so many were melted over the years.
I will also post that most coin dealers and esp B&M's should know most key dates since they are in the business. I do not collect barbers and know there are high dollar keys and what the keys are to most series or an idea after just 7 or 8 years. Keets has posted many good threads here over the years and should know also. This was not intentional on Keets part but rather poor employee training or store policies.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
>>
Lloyd... perhaps there might be some merit to the idea of requiring that all posters on the forum take and pass a reading comprehension exam before posting... >>
Whose this Lloyd you are refering to? >>
oops...I meant Lee... somehow I always think of you as Lloyd because of your handle "19Lyds" ... I always "read" it as an abbreviated Lloyd...
See... we do need a reading comprehension exam around here...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
Too bad keets has deleted some posts because this thread provides an excellent opportunity to discuss ethics.
I feel for the old man regarding losing his jewelry more than anything else. That and not finding a better coin shop........ >>
I do not really see any ethical issues here with the original post. The fellow refused to leave contact information. The end result is that he cannot be contacted anyway.
As for the store policies regarding searching bulk silver after the customer has been paid and is gone, I find nothing wrong with this as well as it happens every single day in the coin business and is really the only method of keeping some sense of sanity in a busy store.
The implication is that there were only a few coins but it is also quickly forgotten that, in this particular case, nether party had any idea what value the 01-S might hold (assuming it was authentic). For all intents and purposes, it was just another bulk piece. From my perspective, since I know a lot about IKEs but have to constantly refer to current publications for info on keys in other series, I can fully understand what occured.
For those folks that cannot understand this simple fact, I just don't know what to say.
Al has been around for a long time and his integrity is not one I would question, even in the face of seemingly indisputable facts. Unless it could be proven beyond any reasonable doubt that something "unethical" occured, I will always side with the keets!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Correct - perhaps not the OP, but many of the follow up posts are loaded (no pun intended) with ethical issues.
Plus I want to keep this topic going even if keets wants it to die. I do not know keets and have no reason to doubt his original story. Much of the bashing has been unwarranted IMHO.
The fair thing to do would be to split the profit with the previous owner, 50:50. Denying that he is due any portion of the windfall is not honorable, and denying that the dealer does not deserve a significant share of it is unrealistic and unreasonable. Turn it into a win-win situation and sleep better at night.
Well let's see.........man goes into coin shop with $5K coin and comes out with $50 because the shop was "too busy" to look through his coins.
It's plain and simple that if he had found a shop that had time to look through his coins; it "could" have yielded different results. It couldn't have been any worse could it?
<< <i>The fair thing to do would be to split the profit with the previous owner, 50:50. Denying that he is due any portion of the windfall is not honorable, and denying that the dealer does not deserve a significant share of it is unrealistic and unreasonable. Turn it into a win-win situation and sleep better at night. >>
Well let's see.........man goes into coin shop with $5K coin and comes out with $50 because the shop was "too busy" to look through his coins.
It's plain and simple that if he had found a shop that had time to look through his coins; it "could" have yielded different results. It couldn't have been any worse could it? >>
Only if people keep posting moronic crap like you do.
Comments
<< <i>I had a dream I picked up a silver coin and blew on it. It became proof like, so I blew another one. I woke up out of breath.
This has nothing to do wtih the story, but this seemed as good a place as any to share my dream. >>
Sounds like you may have obstructive sleep apnea to me. Seriously.
and they're cold.
I don't want nobody to shoot me in the foxhole."
Mary
Best Franklin Website
<< <i>
<< <i>I had a dream I picked up a silver coin and blew on it. It became proof like, so I blew another one. I woke up out of breath.
This has nothing to do wtih the story, but this seemed as good a place as any to share my dream. >>
Sounds like you may have obstructive sleep apnea to me. Seriously. >>
I have sleep apnea as well... I take Ambien to help me...
<< <i>"Gall" is thinking that this is a situation in ANY way "right". What a crock, and a such a lovely light it casts on coin dealers everywhere. Pfffffft. All kinds, it takes. >>
EPIC FAIL!
Had to use that.
Walk a few miles in the shoes then judge.
Read my post on drywall buckets of mixed coins.
See the I Love Lucy Chocolate Factory episode for reference of current working conditions in a lot of the larger shops.
Walk people and have them tell 10 others about the terrible service in your shop all because you were searching for the needle in the haystack makes a lot of sense if you want to be as extinct as icecream in the Sahara.
And what do you do for a living?? I'm sure I can find an ethics violation of some sort. And NO I was just following order from my superiors. Thats been done before.......
<< <i>the part about the jewelry was the part that puzzled me and puts a sort of sad, ironic twist on the whole thing. he had several pairs of earrings that i tried to examine and he wasn't really interested in knowing if they were gold, he just wanted to get an idea of what to give to each of his grand daughters. in fact, after he told me as much the second time i simply handed them to him when it became clear he hadn't intended to sell them as he'd first indicated.
Oh goodie goodie, we have a multi thousand dollar coin we paid $2.00 for. Sorry I don't buy the you don't have the time to look until after the customer leave.
see, i knew there would be the guys who think it's just another case of a dealer ripping a customer.
fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time. >>
thats why i never feel bad when i pick through morgans and find key vams at the dealer's cases. i love it when the dealer buys in bulk, becuase they don't have time to look at everything.and they make plenty of mistakes ...
was at my local coin shop today, lady comes in with lets says 6 coffee cans of mercury dimes !!!! that dealer let me buy one for not too much over spot, well so far, you guess it .i have already found one 21 in in at least xf . and i'm not even half way !!!!!
did you think the dealer should look at every coin ??? he would never make any money, becuase people would walk out of the store.
I hope you're right that it's authentic. Apparently the Boss wasn't testing you if he's sending it to ge graded.
I don't understand why PCGS book states counterfeits are below average, very baffling indeed for the 1901 s, very baffling. I think a lot of duped buyers would probably disagree with PCGS statement in regards to said coin.
I had a long time collector (collected around 60 yrs) that was selling me coins, all were raw. He had a 1901s in G. He knew the value was in the 5k range. I wasn't willing to pay that much for a coin that easily could've been counterfeited, via added mm. He had several other key date coins that he agreed to let me send to PCGS for grading prior to setting the prices. I don't remember now why, but the 1901s was never contemplated to be graded prior to the sale. He simply said he understood my hesitancy, he'd sell it to me for $900 and give me a written money back guarantee that it was geniune, that solved the issue for me since I had possession of several other key coins I was submitting as collateral. I don't know why he proposed that deal, it did make me very suspicious that it wasn't geniune. But, alas, it did grade out. Anyhoots, that's how I came to own mine. I did get a smokin deal, but he proposed the price, not me. For all you that think I ripped him ..... I purchased probably 200 coins or so, none even remotely close to melt value ....... I assure you that I ended up overpaying for many of those. Many of them I simply wanted for my collection, maybe he felt compassion for me since I overpaid on so many others, lol, who knows.
Honestly that sounds more like a stolen coin than else. Why take $900 for a $5K coin, considering you are already sending coins from the lot in for grading? Makes no sense. Stolen or needed the cash very badly.
I see your point about possibly being stolen. I can clear that up I think. He had been collecting his whole life, buying coins from Dealers and apparently a whole slew of people he buy coins from, friends and family. Mind you back during his prime collecting days, there wasn't any clad coins in circulation. I met him at his apt. He had tons of coins and stamps, all very neatly organized in books, one of every date almost of almost every series. He had been a bachelor and always had disposable income. He's been handicapped for some time now, certainly not capable of carrying out a heist. In the end though, it was obvious to me he had invested in the wrong thing during his lifetime. Yes, he had an impressive collection of coins ..... but far from a rich man. He missed the boat of ever having bought real estate or any other investment. He did need the money ......... but sadly, not for himself, but for a family member.
time to look up every date and mint mark of every coin in the grey sheet. Keets is not to blame here BECAUSE, Keets himself
did not know the Barber quarter series well Enough to know the '01 S was THE key date .
He admited he had to go look it up, SO , even if he spotted the '01 S upon initial inspection of the old man's
coins, It would have meant very little to him at that time . My thinking is if you are going to be
in charge of buying at a coin shop, you better educate yourself as to what the key dates are to all the major series.
That just goes without saying. The blame here lies 100 % on the coin store owner for putting someone in charge
of the buying who did not know the basics, as far as doing a quick scan for keys .
Lewis
<< <i>On this day I decided to start with the G/VG Quarters and the first one I picked up was a 1901-S. Now remember, I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page..........................which is where my eyes popped out of the sockets!!!! >>
Seriously?
You've worked in this coin shop for almost a year.
You've collected coins for how long?
You've been a member on these boards for 7 years and you don't know that an 01-S is a very valuable coin?
<< <i>He came in around noon and had several small coin purses.........We sorted through the coins first, >>
As you sorted you didn't think to check a few barber quarters, to see if any were dated 1901, 1896 or 1913, to see if there was an S on the reverse?
A handfull of Barbers Quarters and you didn't look to see if there was a 1901? I've never heard of a coin dealer not doing a quick scan of Barber Quarters for key dates.
Maybe that's why your boss has you doing the buying so he can claim ignorance.
<< <i> i know you might find it difficult to accept and understand that my conscience is clear and i have been sleeping well, >>
I'm sure your conscience is clear as to your purchase of the old fellows coins but as you reflect, how do you feel about the mistake you made and the impact that additional $8,000.00-$10,000.00 would have made in this gentlemans life?
Coin shops should be a place for the Average Joe to go to get an expert opinion and to be treated with honesty and integrity. They aren't pawn shops or flea markets.
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty.
<< <i>No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty. >>
I'm in PA and have never had to show identification or sign anything.
<< <i>
<< <i>No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty. >>
I'm in PA and have never had to show identification or sign anything.
I thought it was the law, apparently it's just this shops practice? The shop is in Erie, and I live just outside of Erie. When selling, they always require the form to be signed, and I am ALMOST positive that I was told it was required to help police trace stolen property. I'm certainly confused now, and I'll ask about it the next time I stop there. They also require a form for the IRS if the sale is over $5000....
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No judgement from me, but here's how it works at the local coin shop here:
I took in a few hundred dollars (face value) of "junk" silver. A woman went through the whole mess, setting aside barbers, mercurys, and franklins. These were passed to the owner, who looked them over, and actually paid a premium on any better date/grade. Also, I had to show a drivers license, and sign a paper. This is done to help identify people selling stolen goods. This may not be the law in the OP's state, but it is here in Pennsylvania. This particular shop has been in business for as long as I can remember (at least 35 years), and their longevity is probably due to their honesty. >>
I'm in PA and have never had to show identification or sign anything.
I thought it was the law, apparently it's just this shops practice? The shop is in Erie, and I live just outside of Erie. When selling, they always require the form to be signed, and I am ALMOST positive that I was told it was required to help police trace stolen property. I'm certainly confused now, and I'll ask about it the next time I stop there. They also require a form for the IRS if the sale is over $5000.... >>
Some states require ID; some states don't. In many areas it is the local community in which requires ID. It is possible that the part of PA you live in requires it while other areas do not.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>
<< <i>the part about the jewelry was the part that puzzled me and puts a sort of sad, ironic twist on the whole thing. he had several pairs of earrings that i tried to examine and he wasn't really interested in knowing if they were gold, he just wanted to get an idea of what to give to each of his grand daughters. in fact, after he told me as much the second time i simply handed them to him when it became clear he hadn't intended to sell them as he'd first indicated.
Oh goodie goodie, we have a multi thousand dollar coin we paid $2.00 for. Sorry I don't buy the you don't have the time to look until after the customer leave.
see, i knew there would be the guys who think it's just another case of a dealer ripping a customer.
fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time. >>
thats why i never feel bad when i pick through morgans and find key vams at the dealer's cases. i love it when the dealer buys in bulk, becuase they don't have time to look at everything.and they make plenty of mistakes ...
was at my local coin shop today, lady comes in with lets says 6 coffee cans of mercury dimes !!!! that dealer let me buy one for not too much over spot, well so far, you guess it .i have already found one 21 in in at least xf . and i'm not even half way !!!!!
did you think the dealer should look at every coin ??? he would never make any money, becuase people would walk out of the store. >>
I don't think a dealer has time to look at every coin in a bulk sale, but I do feel they have an obligation to look at a quantity as small as the group brought in by this gentleman.
Like I said before a dealer could tell the customer we don't look for the good stuff, but if you would like to here is a list or a blue book.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Yes the seller should know what he has, and yes the dealer being the pro should also know what he is buying.
Not every transaction goes down like it should, or could.
This seems to be one of them.
If the seller was smart he could have asked or said, look through these and if we have anything of substantial value
we can split it.
Instead he just accepted melt value for his coins. I can't blame the OP.
Steve
<< <i>Coin shops should be a place for the Average Joe to go to get an expert opinion and to be treated with honesty and integrity. They aren't pawn shops or flea markets. >>
But I see you went back and edited out all your comments... Nice....
I have a hole in my Barber Quarter set.
<< <i>They also require a form for the IRS if the sale is over $5000.... >>
Huhh?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Keets. I would use this whole thing to your advantage. This could actually be really good publicity for you guys. Call up your local NBC news station and let them know you purchased a coin from a guy recently. Because it was so worn, you didn't notice until after he left that it was really a rare silver quarter, worth thousands. You could ask for their help to locate the guy so you can pay him what the coin is really worth. Then, you can describe the guy. It would show your company to be an honest company, drawing new customers to your store. >>
From what I understand, the coin is on its way to PCGS for Authentication as it would very foolish of the coin shop to run an ad regarding a "rare" coin which could end up being counterfeit.
However if the coin is deemed authentic, then perhaps the issue could be addressed. I'm sure Al would recognize this fellow if he were to respond (along with the hundreds of folks that will also respond).
Most of the negative folks that have replied to this thread have not even considered that the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag. There are, supposedly, more counterfeit versions of this coin out there than what was actually produced.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Most of the negative folks that have replied to this thread have not even considered that the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag. There are, supposedly, more counterfeit versions of this coin out there than what was actually produced. >>
Now now, can't let facts get in the way of a good whine...
1/2 Cents
U.S. Revenue Stamps
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless.
<< <i><< then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag.>>
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless. >>
Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i><< then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag.>>
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless. >>
Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
Lloyd (edited to say...oops...I mean Lee)... perhaps there might be some merit to the idea of requiring that all posters on the forum take and pass a reading comprehension exam before posting...
I just want to see a picture of the coin in question
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i><< then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag.>>
Not really. If they paid $2 for it, how are they left holding the bag?
If it turns out legit, they pocket $5K plus.
Sounds like a win win regardless. >>
Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
Lloyd... perhaps there might be some merit to the idea of requiring that all posters on the forum take and pass a reading comprehension exam before posting...
Whose this Lloyd you are refering to?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>The fair thing to do would be to split the profit with the previous owner, 50:50. Denying that he is due any portion of the windfall is not honorable, and denying that the dealer does not deserve a significant share of it is unrealistic and unreasonable. Turn it into a win-win situation and sleep better at night. >>
Wow... hey keets... you drew out RYK...
Unfortunately... keets has deleted his posts to this thread...in one of the first ones, he stated that the old man chose to not leave his contact info with keets or the store...
Yes the coin could be a fake. So the dealer could say, before i pay you fair money for this ( 1000's of dollars) i need to be sure it is real. I am sure the old man could wait a few weeks for a chance at 1000's. The 2 dollar you gave him might have paid the parking meter. Although i would think most coin collectors and dealers could determine a real one from a fake one in hand in a matter of minutes. You guys are just fishing her saying the guy sold a fake coin. If he knew it was worth money he would not have sold it for 2 bucks. He may or his parents may have gotten it in change 75 years ago.
What if a old man walked into the store and wanted a barber quarter, you show him a common date VG worth 5 bucks that you tell him it is 5000 dollars and a great investment since so many were melted over the years.
I will also post that most coin dealers and esp B&M's should know most key dates since they are in the business. I do not collect barbers and know there are high dollar keys and what the keys are to most series or an idea after just 7 or 8 years. Keets has posted many good threads here over the years and should know also. This was not intentional on Keets part but rather poor employee training or store policies.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>Read the reply again and pay particular attention to:
"the coin might not be authentic in which case, had reasonable prices been paid or even offered, then the "good samaritan" dealer could be left holding the bag."!
Lloyd... perhaps there might be some merit to the idea of requiring that all posters on the forum take and pass a reading comprehension exam before posting...
Whose this Lloyd you are refering to?
oops...I meant Lee... somehow I always think of you as Lloyd because of your handle "19Lyds" ... I always "read" it as an abbreviated Lloyd...
See... we do need a reading comprehension exam around here...
Too bad keets has deleted some posts because this thread provides an excellent opportunity to discuss ethics.
I feel for the old man regarding losing his jewelry more than anything else. That and not finding a better coin shop........
<< <i>Please regard this post as my "bookmark".
Too bad keets has deleted some posts because this thread provides an excellent opportunity to discuss ethics.
I feel for the old man regarding losing his jewelry more than anything else. That and not finding a better coin shop........
I do not really see any ethical issues here with the original post. The fellow refused to leave contact information. The end result is that he cannot be contacted anyway.
As for the store policies regarding searching bulk silver after the customer has been paid and is gone, I find nothing wrong with this as well as it happens every single day in the coin business and is really the only method of keeping some sense of sanity in a busy store.
The implication is that there were only a few coins but it is also quickly forgotten that, in this particular case, nether party had any idea what value the 01-S might hold (assuming it was authentic). For all intents and purposes, it was just another bulk piece. From my perspective, since I know a lot about IKEs but have to constantly refer to current publications for info on keys in other series, I can fully understand what occured.
For those folks that cannot understand this simple fact, I just don't know what to say.
Al has been around for a long time and his integrity is not one I would question, even in the face of seemingly indisputable facts. Unless it could be proven beyond any reasonable doubt that something "unethical" occured, I will always side with the keets!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I do not really see any ethical issues here with the original post. >>
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Correct - perhaps not the OP, but many of the follow up posts are loaded (no pun intended) with ethical issues.
Plus I want to keep this topic going even if keets wants it to die. I do not know keets and have no reason to doubt his original story. Much of the bashing has been unwarranted IMHO.
That and not finding a better coin shop.......
Steve
<< <i>Then why did you say:
That and not finding a better coin shop.......
Steve >>
agreed.
<< <i>Then why did you say: >>
<< <i>That and not finding a better coin shop........ >>
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Well let's see.........man goes into coin shop with $5K coin and comes out with $50 because the shop was "too busy" to look through his coins.
It's plain and simple that if he had found a shop that had time to look through his coins; it "could" have yielded different results. It couldn't have been any worse could it?
<< <i>The fair thing to do would be to split the profit with the previous owner, 50:50. Denying that he is due any portion of the windfall is not honorable, and denying that the dealer does not deserve a significant share of it is unrealistic and unreasonable. Turn it into a win-win situation and sleep better at night. >>
Welcome back!!
Soon time for the Steelers to kick ass!!!!!!!!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>Then why did you say: >>
<< <i>That and not finding a better coin shop........ >>
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Well let's see.........man goes into coin shop with $5K coin and comes out with $50 because the shop was "too busy" to look through his coins.
It's plain and simple that if he had found a shop that had time to look through his coins; it "could" have yielded different results. It couldn't have been any worse could it? >>
Only if people keep posting moronic crap like you do.
<< <i>Only if people keep posting moronic crap like you do. >>
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I always appreciate an intellectual response.
Thank you for the analysis.