<< <i>what is most disturbing of all is the responses to this post that say so much as.. its ok to take advantage of people that should know better. never mind the fact that this old guy in question may not have been able to see the small print in a guide such as a redbook. may not have understood anything about mintmarks, but its ok because he should have known better. >>
Good Grief...
No one "took advantage" of anyone
From what I gather he was NOT "an old man" when he accumulated these coins
I didn't understand anything about mintmarks UNTIL I took the time to LEARN
Yes...everyone should know better than to sell something they know nothing about...or suffer the potential consequences...
For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
<< <i> I think that the #1 thing Al might have learned from this post is to keep his mouth shut.
man, if that ain't the truth. i thought it was a cool story and all i'm finding out is that with some soul searching i'll see myself as the scum sucking scoundrel that i really am. consider my mouth shut....................... >>
When this thread was first started I read it before anyone had a chance to reply (thats what I do when I'm off work, I sit on CU and go back and forth between the TV and the computer )
I finished reading it and thought "Man o man this is going to have a ton of posts." Sure enough theres 90+ replies which 1/3 I actually read. Every other one is for or against what happened only with different wording.
All in all, I'm going to keep my opinion to myself. Because either way I'll get burned or it'll be accepted. So anyway, I think it was a great story, thanks for sharing Al.
"I don't think Al is dishonest....I believe he IS honest. I also believe that there is NO WAY I would have handled it the same way. I would have found time to do a quick, cursory look, at each coin (date/MM) because it doesn't sound like it was hundreds/thousands of coins.
I also believe this is the way a lot of brick and mortars operate, and it sounds like a lot of our board members are on board with this as well. Not the way I would do it, not the way I would have my son learn to do it, nor would I want employees doing it that way either.
It is what it is, but it isn't cool in my book. To those that think the old guy had it coming for not knowing what he had....I do hope you are in his shoes sometime. You remind me of people that are ok letting thiefs and murderers out because you don't like incarceration or death penalties....maybe if it happened to you, or your close family, you would change, but until then, you are all for their releaseI don't think Al is dishonest....I believe he IS honest. I also believe that there is NO WAY I would have handled it the same way. I would have found time to do a quick, cursory look, at each coin (date/MM) because it doesn't sound like it was hundreds/thousands of coins.
I also believe this is the way a lot of brick and mortars operate, and it sounds like a lot of our board members are on board with this as well. Not the way I would do it, not the way I would have my son learn to do it, nor would I want employees doing it that way either.
It is what it is, but it isn't cool in my book. To those that think the old guy had it coming for not knowing what he had....I do hope you are in his shoes sometime. You remind me of people that are ok letting thiefs and murderers out because you don't like incarceration or death penalties....maybe if it happened to you, or your close family, you would change, but until then, you are all for their release.
i have a tear in my eye, there is intellegent life in here after all ! potatoe, i dont collect barber quarters so this scenario doesnt apply to me, no im not a hypocrite, i dont go to church every sunday for a clean slate, i still have enough left over from the week prior.
"yes...everyone should know better than to sell something they know nothing about...or suffer the potential consequences"
a garage sale maybe but not when a person goes to a coin dealer for an honest offer of what thier items are worth, a place of business must have some ethical obligation to abide by, or is it truly "anything goes" ?
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens. They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how! >>
He did his own twisting--- Quote from his original post, "He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry" Later he states, "fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>"yes...everyone should know better than to sell something they know nothing about...or suffer the potential consequences"
a garage sale maybe but not when a person goes to a coin dealer for an honest offer of what thier items are worth, a place of business must have some ethical obligation to abide by, or is it truly "anything goes" ? >>
Look... it was not a wild west rodeo... it was a simple deal... some apparent junk silver and an unexpected find... had Al realized this 1901-S was in the lot, I have no doubt this would have all ended up differently...
Have you ever spent any time behind a busy coin table/counter? If not, you have no idea... and if you have... and have never "found" a surprise "later on'... well just keep on coming...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens. They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how! >>
He did his own twisting--- Quote from his original post, "He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry" Later he states, "fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization? >>
Hello? Is anybody home??
To quote Al "I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page"
Al didn't have a clue what it was until HE looked it up! As a coin dealer or as a coin dealers apprentice, you just don't have the time to look EACH and EVERY coin up that comes across the counter. You either know what it is and pay fair market value or you don't know what it is and pay what you think its worth. To re-iterrate, this wasn't a single coin, it didn't stand out as anything special, it was simply in a group of other coins that looked exactly the same as it.
Sheesh.
Edited to be a little less directionally abrasive.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
You know what? I am sick and tired of some of the pitas on this forum...
You expect every dealer to pay top dollar for every coin they are offered... you expect them to only have PQ coins for sale... and they should sell them all at wholesale... and they should always be friendly and courteous and ever attentive to every collectors every whim and on cue and always pay perfect attention to every little detail in every single deal and if not then they are horrible people out to rip off the world...
I am so grateful that the pitas are a minority... or I'd get so far away from this hobby you'd never see me...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
<< <i>i have a tear in my eye, there is intellegent life in here after all ! potatoe, i dont collect barber quarters so this scenario doesnt apply to me, >>
Well, I guess you're excused from doing what you seem to be saying is the right thing for the dealer to do, then.
I'm really sorry that this fellow missed out on getting full value for what he had but.......................... it is what it is. A done deal for the seller and a super find for the buyer because the buyer had enough knowledge about what he was doing to take the time to look it up.
I now kinda wonder how Al's gonna feel if this fellow ever comes back?
And what if he has another 01-S?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens. They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how! >>
He did his own twisting--- Quote from his original post, "He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry" Later he states, "fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization? >>
Hello? Is anybody home??
To quote Al "I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page"
Al didn't have a clue what it was until HE looked it up! As a coin dealer or as a coin dealers apprentice, you just don't have the time to look EACH and EVERY coin up that comes across the counter. You either know what it is and pay fair market value or you don't know what it is and pay what you think its worth. To re-iterrate, this wasn't a single coin, it din;t sdtand out as anything special, it was simply in a group of other coins that looked exactly the same as it.
Sheesh.
Edited to be a little less directionally abrasive. >>
Lee,
Maybe what bugs me most is if someone buys a mis-marked coin there are people on these boards that go nuts becuase someone ripped the dealer. Well if they only paid a few dollars for it, and then placed it into junk silver, someone comes in and buys a bunch of bulk silver, finds they coin, many of the people here would state they have to go back and pay the dealer for their find (recently Numismatic News was full of letters to the editor on this very subject). You simply can't have it both ways. If a professional doesn't have time to do a professional job, they should make a point to let the customers know we don't look for valualble coins, but it you would like to look yourself you can look for the vaule of the coins in this blue book or have a list they hand the customers. If the customer doesn't want to look their loss, and I'm okay with that. What is the point of belonging to ANA or PNG if it is buy everything at base metal and scower later for the good stuff.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Yes...I did already post this above... I'm posting it again... so there
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
<< <i>For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Yes...I did already post this above... I'm posting it again... so there >>
Interesting way to look at it. I think he knew exactly how this thread would progress. When I go, and it becomes time for my wife to liquidate my coins, I hope she finds someone who will take the time to do the job right. My $9.40 face value of Mercury Dimes is worth a bit more than melt.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>Maybe what bugs me most is if someone buys a mis-marked coin there are people on these boards that go nuts becuase someone ripped the dealer. Well if they only paid a few dollars for it, and then placed it into junk silver, someone comes in and buys a bunch of bulk silver, finds they coin, many of the people here would state they have to go back and pay the dealer for their find (recently Numismatic News was full of letters to the editor on this very subject). >>
A mis-marked coin is not exactly the same thing as an unidentified key in a bag of junk silver.
How many people do you suppose there are who would buy a bag of bulk silver at melt and then go back to the dealer if they found a key date coin in an effort to find the person who sold the coin to the dealer so that the original seller might be compensated (remember- the dealer only paid melt for it) for his unrecognized prize? I'm guessing not many.
<< <i>For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Yes...I did already post this above... I'm posting it again... so there >>
Interesting way to look at it. I think he knew exactly how this thread would progress. When I go, and it becomes time for my wife to liquidate my coins, I hope she finds someone who will take the time to do the job right. My $9.40 face value of Mercury Dimes is worth a bit more than melt. >>
And I hope you have taken the time to catalogue the collection and EDUCATE your wife (and other loved ones) as to the true value of your collection...as well as leave them the names of trusted dealers you have worked with over the years...
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens. They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how! >>
He did his own twisting--- Quote from his original post, "He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry" Later he states, "fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization? >>
Hello? Is anybody home??
To quote Al "I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page"
Al didn't have a clue what it was until HE looked it up! As a coin dealer or as a coin dealers apprentice, you just don't have the time to look EACH and EVERY coin up that comes across the counter. You either know what it is and pay fair market value or you don't know what it is and pay what you think its worth. To re-iterrate, this wasn't a single coin, it din;t sdtand out as anything special, it was simply in a group of other coins that looked exactly the same as it.
Sheesh.
Edited to be a little less directionally abrasive. >>
Lee,
Maybe what bugs me most is if someone buys a mis-marked coin there are people on these boards that go nuts becuase someone ripped the dealer. Well if they only paid a few dollars for it, and then placed it into junk silver, someone comes in and buys a bunch of bulk silver, finds they coin, many of the people here would state they have to go back and pay the dealer for their find (recently Numismatic News was full of letters to the editor on this very subject). You simply can't have it both ways. If a professional doesn't have time to do a professional job, they should make a point to let the customers know we don't look for valualble coins, but it you would like to look yourself you can look for the vaule of the coins in this blue book or have a list they hand the customers. If the customer doesn't want to look their loss, and I'm okay with that. What is the point of belonging to ANA or PNG if it is buy everything at base metal and scower later for the good stuff. >>
Your point is well taken. There are a lot of double standards that exist in these forums but I don;t think Al is one of those folks. Had he looked the coin up, I'm sure the feller would have been pleased. But he didn't as there was no reason too. It is totally possible that the 01-S was upside down when it was initially assessed. They were in a coin purse (or two).
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>And I hope you have taken the time to catalogue the collection and EDUCATE your wife (and other loved ones) as to the true value of your collection...as well as leave them the names of trusted dealers you have worked with over the years... >>
I've cataloged the collection but don't have any dealers in mind although I'm sure she'd go to Gold Country Coin Exchange. Davids ok in my book but he just doesn't do IKE's.
Having said that, I'm sure that this fellow wasn't selling a "collection". Just some coins that had been stuck away. Maybe even pocket change?
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
not many because NOT MANY IF ANY dealers turn over thier purchases without picking through them. period. there isnt time to go through all the coins....until after the check is written.
<< <i>not many because NOT MANY IF ANY dealers turn over thier purchases without picking through them. period. there isnt time to go through all the coins....until after the check is written. >>
<< <i>not many because NOT MANY IF ANY dealers turn over thier purchases without picking through them. >>
I wasn't discussing that. I was talking about what buyers would do in the situation described above. I understand why some wouldn't want to explore that issue.
potatoe, if i buy something from a coin dealer, im going to expect him to know more than i do, when i buy something from a dealer, such as am 01-s quarter in thier junk box, how is the dealer going to know where it came from ??? oh yeah thats the 01-s quarter that so and so brought in. we just dropped it in the junk box. your question has no answer because there is no answer to a really stupid question
My only real gripe is the amount of the rip here, and i will say that i do not believe Keets set out to do this. The way the store does business probably needs to be looked at but then you could say i should do some things different in my business and i would agree to that.
I have seen many a coin dollar do a quick look for key dates. How many barber quarter dates in AG, GD or VG is there? 2 or 3. How many key dates in Lincoln Cents and in Standing Liberty quarters? Not many. Most people on these forums know what they are selling when they go into a coin store and a lot of non coin collectors do a little checking before they walk thru the door. When i go to the doctor i do not read the medical book first although some do, just like i expect a lawyer to handle my problems with out me having to do his work for him.
My parents are getting old now. My dad is in his 80's and still pretty active. He was a judge and then an attorney for 50 plus years but sometimes you wonder what he is thinking upstairs.
If the barber was worth 200 dollars and you gave him 2 bucks no knowing is one thing in my book, but 2 or so bucks for a coin that turns out to be worth 5k or more is another.
No one answered if the dealer is a ANA or PNG dealer.
When anything gets bought and sold at prices that are way way out of line with fair market values i think it raises eyebrows. If this old man woke up tommorow and realized he sold his 5k or more quarter for a few bucks and went back to the store to see about getting it back what would the owner say or do?
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
<< <i>My only real gripe is the amount of the rip here, and i will say that i do not believe Keets set out to do this. The way the store does business probably needs to be looked at but then you could say i should do some things different in my business and i would agree to that.
I have seen many a coin dollar do a quick look for key dates. How many barber quarter dates in AG, GD or VG is there? 2 or 3. How many key dates in Lincoln Cents and in Standing Liberty quarters? Not many. Most people on these forums know what they are selling when they go into a coin store and a lot of non coin collectors do a little checking before they walk thru the door. When i go to the doctor i do not read the medical book first although some do, just like i expect a lawyer to handle my problems with out me having to do his work for him.
My parents are getting old now. My dad is in his 80's and still pretty active. He was a judge and then an attorney for 50 plus years but sometimes you wonder what he is thinking upstairs.
If the barber was worth 200 dollars and you gave him 2 bucks no knowing is one thing in my book, but 2 or so bucks for a coin that turns out to be worth 5k or more is another.
No one answered if the dealer is a ANA or PNG dealer.
When anything gets bought and sold at prices that are way way out of line with fair market values i think it raises eyebrows. If this old man woke up tommorow and realized he sold his 5k or more quarter for a few bucks and went back to the store to see about getting it back what would the owner say or do? >>
Agreed, and even when accidental, things like this cause people to think the worst of coin dealers as a whole. Like I said earlier, I would do things different if it were me, or my store, but I still believe that Al didn't try to rip him off....he just does things quite differently and, at times, customers will get screwed (since, paying melt for these things will seldom screw the dealer...it's a win-win for them).
graded, stickered, consigned whatever it takes to get max value. subtract associated fees find him and split whats left. you'll sleep again. it happened through no fault of yours; there's still time to turn it positive.
Keets seems like a really good guy. I place no blame on him.
One of my favorite ways of analyzing a moral question is to ask 10 people their opinion. Hopefully people who have nothing to do with the subject. Remember, 95 out of a 100 dont know what we know.
Break it down simple.
1. Man walks into store to sell 2. Man is made offer for coins and accepts based on the expertise of the dealer. 3. Dealer finds out he "ripped" an expensive coin. 4. Dealer makes no attempt to record information of client so no contact is possible.
This isnt a question of legality. It is a question of moral. What do you think those 10 people would think? How do you think the media would frame this scenario? Crucify is the word that comes to mind. That sells ad space and newspapers.
If you dont inspect every coin, a phone number should be gathered. This man is owed. Moral dictates it.
I think that is why he posted here. he wasnt sure what the moral was.
As a dealer, if you dont have time to deal with flaky customers, maybe you should change careers.
I was NOT going to read 4 pages of how Keets ripped someone.
For anyone out there Al is a hell of a guy, someone that i would want to be friends with. If some old man walked into a shop I was working and it was 2 deep- well that is the break in life.
How dare any of you condemn a man for doing his job!
I ripped a ebay seller tonight - 7 coins so far, for less than a hundred bucks, but the coins value is twice that easily. Am I a happy camper- not really- but I bid, nobody bid against me and the auction ended as it was.
Keets did his job and was fortunate to find a surprise- let it rest.
That coin is worth more than $5,000.00 if it is authentic. The last one that sold on TT was in April, 2008 and surprisingly enough there are two that are coming up July 12th. For all we know, Keets could be the one that got ripped, there are a lot of counterfeits out there.
2518:1339 Apr 20, 2008 1901S PCGS 6 A very important offering in any grade. The devices and rims are worn flat with the devices to silhouette. A classic low mintage Barber Quarter Dollar, which for decades has been considered by specialists to be an integral addition to a complete set. There were 72, 644 coins minted for this issue.
Realized: $6,400.
Auction 2717 • Lot 1604 • Sunday, July 12, 2009 Previous Lot • Next lot
Quarter 1901S PCGS 8 Most of the known coins of this issue are graded below Very Fine. Coins graded Extremely Fine and About Uncirculated are very rare. This issue is heavily counterfeited and it is reported that more counterfeits exist than do actual coins. A very important offering in any grade. A classic low mintage Barber Quarter Dollar, which for decades has been considered by specialists to be an integral addition to a complete set. There were 72, 644 coins minted for this issue.
<< <i>That coin is worth more than $5,000.00 if it is authentic. The last one that sold on TT was in April, 2008 and surprisingly enough there are two that are coming up July 12th. For all we know, Keets could be the one that got ripped, there are a lot of counterfeits out there. >>
IF it were counterfeit, Keets wouldn't have gotten ripped, nor, really, would the coin store as it was only "melt" paid, right? As I mentioned earlier, the coin shop really had NOTHING to lose in paying melt for items.
After reading all the opinions expressed here, I have to shake my head. I can't believe all the "he ripped the old guy" or "just the typical dealer MO.." type statements I've read. Go back and re-read the OP. Keets and the shop in general did nothing wrong.
I suppose if you approach a real estate agent, wanting to sell a piece of land, and subsequently sell it, is the buyer expected to come back to you as the seller with a big check because he has since discovered oil on what used to be your land? Not hardly.
to this scenario and one which no one has mentioned.
What if the coin belonged to the store owner and this was a test for keets?
Keets wrote "so I paid him for the coins and he headed out the door. I put the plastic bowls containing the coins on my boss' desk and moved on to the next customer.
Our routine is for my boss to sort through everything first. If something stands out he puts it aside or places what's left on my desk. Then I sort through everything and it goes to the show boxes, store stock, 2X2 bins in the store or it gets packaged up in bulk lots to be resold as junk silver. "
He also mentions that he is quite new to this job and he is building up trust with the dealer.
If the dealer looked through the coins first he maybe slipped the coin mentioned into the pile and handed it to keets.
A- To see if keets had the knowledge or gumption to "find " it. B- To see if keets would report the "find" or try and keep it?
After reading through most of this thread I have some thoughts, although I knew this one had 100++ on it from the minute Al posted it and I read the OP.
I have been on here for quite some time, but not nearly so much in the past few years. But I have read enough of Al's posts and been in contact on PMs to know he is a pretty good guy and a great source of Jeff nickel info! I enjoyed the story, and congrats to you, Al, for having the fortitude to stand up to the flame wars that came from the OP. You did state that the man didn't want to sell the jewelry, and did not leave his number for return contact. I also find the fact that he told you to give the jewelry to your wife if you found it a VERY ODD thing to say. No one else seemed to catch on to that.
The gentleman obviously either had the coins for a very long time, picking them out of circulation as being "not recent" and never thought to see about rarity since he obviously did not collect in the true sense of the word, OR he "found them" or came by them by other than honest means. This statement is derived from the conversation Al had on the phone with the guy. If the jewelry was his wife's (deceased or not??) why would he not want them back if found??? Why did he seem not to really care???? maybe he was a "handy man" who took a widow or other woman on a "job" meanwhile perusing her things for stuff to fence. Then again, maybe he and his old lady got into a messy divorce some years ago (or recently) and he found some stuff she had obviously forgotten about when she moved out, so, he figures....."f--k the b---h, I'm gonna get something out of this stuff"
Until you know ALL the facts, I can't see the flames being deserved. I know for a fact that looking at this kind of stuff every day for hours on end would get numbing....plus Al only knew offhand that the Barber in question was an odd date, he had to consult the Book for what it really was...I am quite sure I would have caught it, but I still find nothing wrong with what he did. There was not a true "intent" on "ripping" the guy.....plus I still go back to the man's odd behavior concerning the jewelry....smoething doesn't make sense there.......
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on; I don't do these things to other people, I require the same from them."
Remember... do not turn to the general forum for advice or feedback on anything...unless it is specifically to learn about some detailed aspect of numismatic research I am unable to locate in my library.
There are enough posters here with common sense and no "holier-than-though" airs that I can turn to those sensible folks, if needed, thru PM function.
There are way too many yahoos and pitas on this forum for me to bother bringing out any details of my business transactions... too many who are always too quick to find fault in and judge another's actions...
Note to forum members---
If you are a person I have yet to meet and/or do any trading with... and you feel that you are above reproach and in the privileged position of being able to judge people and tell them what they should do... if you fall into that category... PLEASE take note of my handle here on this forum and if you should ever see this name on a sign at a show...please keep on walking... I have no time to deal with pitas nor the desire to suffer fools.
If you are nice, friendly and open minded I am eager to meet you... if you are belligerent, judgemental and unfriendly ... well...I wish you no harm but please stay away from me...it's a big world and there's plenty of room for everyone...
...(it would be so much nicer, though, if everyone could just be nice)
Thank you...
Respectfully...
...Larry Greenstone Sea Eagle Coins
Re: Slabbed coins - There are some coins that LIVE within clear plastic and wear their labels with pride... while there are others that HIDE behind scratched plastic and are simply dragged along by a label. Then there are those coins that simply hang out, naked and free
A snippet on the 1901 S Barber quarter as listed in a Teletrade auction : "...This issue is heavily counterfeited and it is reported that more counterfeits exist than do actual coins."...
Al (keets) is a stand up guy, we all know that because we have seen his postings for many years. I think the holier than thou comment are interesting by some of the members here. It seems that if you don't have the same point of view as them you are wrong. The discussion on this one has been interesting, just remember there are two side to every story. This all started with one side.
Is it neat that Al found a 1901-S quarter? Yes, very cool! Is it a shame they didn't tell the customer, "we don't check for rare coins, and if you would like to do a quick check yourself here is a book or list?" Yes, to that as well.
Should they change the way they do things? IMO there is an easy fix for future customers. Simply make a hand out and if the customer would like to compare dates/mint marks to a list they are at least given the opportunity. If they don't want to look all is fair.
Most likely an honest mistake and Al should sleep well, he did what was procedure at the shop, and didn't intentionally mislead. I think that is perfectly clear.
To the members of this forum -- just be consistent. This was just and honest mistake, and when a story gets put up where the dealer had something marked for $x.xx and the value was much higher, but the customer paid the price marked. The same set of standards should apply. Not a different standard where everyone blasts the customer. I've been here long enough to have seen stories like this in the past. Where the customer is the one that's wrong.
If you feel a need to blast me feel free to include fcloud or Tony in your comments.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
It's obvious as Sin, that your Boss was testing you. No way would he let YOU go through coins HE bought with HIS money before He had a chance to look through them first.
At least not yet........hehehe
A few points - You said your boss is NOW starting to give you more responsibility, Well, TRUST is a huge part of that. 2 - So, your Boss had to think of something to test you with, And walla, One of the oldest tricks in the book, put a valuable counterfeit coin in some pile of coins to have you sort/search/organize........
You past the Test Keets, good for you.!!.....Now show your Boss you Really know your coins , and tell him that it is Fake.!! You just might make Store Manager.!!
Good Eye, and I am sure the Old man's jewelry is still in his car somewhere.!! Probably in the glove box......
"Gall" is thinking that this is a situation in ANY way "right". What a crock, and a such a lovely light it casts on coin dealers everywhere. Pfffffft. All kinds, it takes.
<< <i>"Gall" is thinking that this is a situation in ANY way "right". What a crock, and a such a lovely light it casts on coin dealers everywhere. Pfffffft. All kinds, it takes. >>
Comments
<< <i>
...Customer says, "OK, you can have the cheap ones, but I'm keeping those three valuable coins."
>>
Exactly!
And frequently they'll call you a crook because you offered $50 when the Redbook says they're worth 90.
You lose a deal, a potential customer, and might have your reputation suffer by word of mouth.
An honest dealer will just raise his buy price on the lot to pay for the better coins.
<< <i>what is most disturbing of all is the responses to this post that say so much as.. its ok to take advantage of people that should know better. never mind the fact that this old guy in question may not have been able to see the small print in a guide such as a redbook. may not have understood anything about mintmarks, but its ok because he should have known better. >>
Good Grief...
No one "took advantage" of anyone
From what I gather he was NOT "an old man" when he accumulated these coins
I didn't understand anything about mintmarks UNTIL I took the time to LEARN
Yes...everyone should know better than to sell something they know nothing about...or suffer the potential consequences...
For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
<< <i>
I think that the #1 thing Al might have learned from this post is to keep his mouth shut.
man, if that ain't the truth. i thought it was a cool story and all i'm finding out is that with some soul searching i'll see myself as the scum sucking scoundrel that i really am. consider my mouth shut....................... >>
When this thread was first started I read it before anyone had a chance to reply (thats what I do when I'm off work, I sit on CU and go back and forth between the TV and the computer
I finished reading it and thought "Man o man this is going to have a ton of posts." Sure enough theres 90+ replies which 1/3 I actually read. Every other one is for or against what happened only with different wording.
All in all, I'm going to keep my opinion to myself. Because either way I'll get burned or it'll be accepted. So anyway, I think it was a great story, thanks for sharing Al.
I also believe that there is NO WAY I would have handled it the same way. I would have found time to do a quick, cursory look, at each coin (date/MM) because it doesn't sound like it was hundreds/thousands of coins.
I also believe this is the way a lot of brick and mortars operate, and it sounds like a lot of our board members are on board with this as well. Not the way I would do it, not the way I would have my son learn to do it, nor would I want employees doing it that way either.
It is what it is, but it isn't cool in my book. To those that think the old guy had it coming for not knowing what he had....I do hope you are in his shoes sometime. You remind me of people that are ok letting thiefs and murderers out because you don't like incarceration or death penalties....maybe if it happened to you, or your close family, you would change, but until then, you are all for their releaseI don't think Al is dishonest....I believe he IS honest.
I also believe that there is NO WAY I would have handled it the same way. I would have found time to do a quick, cursory look, at each coin (date/MM) because it doesn't sound like it was hundreds/thousands of coins.
I also believe this is the way a lot of brick and mortars operate, and it sounds like a lot of our board members are on board with this as well. Not the way I would do it, not the way I would have my son learn to do it, nor would I want employees doing it that way either.
It is what it is, but it isn't cool in my book. To those that think the old guy had it coming for not knowing what he had....I do hope you are in his shoes sometime. You remind me of people that are ok letting thiefs and murderers out because you don't like incarceration or death penalties....maybe if it happened to you, or your close family, you would change, but until then, you are all for their release.
i have a tear in my eye, there is intellegent life in here after all ! potatoe, i dont collect barber quarters so this scenario doesnt apply to me, no im not a hypocrite, i dont go to church every sunday for a clean slate, i still have enough left over from the week prior.
I have a very strict gun control policy: if there's a gun around, I want to be in control of it - Clint Eastwood
a garage sale maybe but not when a person goes to a coin dealer for an honest offer of what thier items are worth, a place of business must have some ethical obligation to abide by, or is it truly "anything goes" ?
<< <i>keets,
As you and most here know, you did fine.....
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens.
They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how!
He did his own twisting---
Quote from his original post,
"He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry"
Later he states,
"fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>"yes...everyone should know better than to sell something they know nothing about...or suffer the potential consequences"
a garage sale maybe but not when a person goes to a coin dealer for an honest offer of what thier items are worth, a place of business must have some ethical obligation to abide by, or is it truly "anything goes" ? >>
Look... it was not a wild west rodeo... it was a simple deal... some apparent junk silver and an unexpected find... had Al realized this 1901-S was in the lot, I have no doubt this would have all ended up differently...
Have you ever spent any time behind a busy coin table/counter? If not, you have no idea... and if you have... and have never "found" a surprise "later on'... well just keep on coming...
<< <i>
<< <i>keets,
As you and most here know, you did fine.....
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens.
They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how!
He did his own twisting---
Quote from his original post,
"He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry"
Later he states,
"fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization? >>
Hello? Is anybody home??
To quote Al "I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page"
Al didn't have a clue what it was until HE looked it up! As a coin dealer or as a coin dealers apprentice, you just don't have the time to look EACH and EVERY coin up that comes across the counter. You either know what it is and pay fair market value or you don't know what it is and pay what you think its worth. To re-iterrate, this wasn't a single coin, it didn't stand out as anything special, it was simply in a group of other coins that looked exactly the same as it.
Sheesh.
Edited to be a little less directionally abrasive.
The name is LEE!
You expect every dealer to pay top dollar for every coin they are offered... you expect them to only have PQ coins for sale... and they should sell them all at wholesale... and they should always be friendly and courteous and ever attentive to every collectors every whim and on cue and always pay perfect attention to every little detail in every single deal and if not then they are horrible people out to rip off the world...
I am so grateful that the pitas are a minority... or I'd get so far away from this hobby you'd never see me...
<< <i>i have a tear in my eye, there is intellegent life in here after all ! potatoe, i dont collect barber quarters so this scenario doesnt apply to me, >>
Well, I guess you're excused from doing what you seem to be saying is the right thing for the dealer to do, then.
I now kinda wonder how Al's gonna feel if this fellow ever comes back?
And what if he has another 01-S?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>keets,
As you and most here know, you did fine.....
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens.
They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how!
He did his own twisting---
Quote from his original post,
"He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry"
Later he states,
"fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization? >>
Hello? Is anybody home??
To quote Al "I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page"
Al didn't have a clue what it was until HE looked it up! As a coin dealer or as a coin dealers apprentice, you just don't have the time to look EACH and EVERY coin up that comes across the counter. You either know what it is and pay fair market value or you don't know what it is and pay what you think its worth. To re-iterrate, this wasn't a single coin, it din;t sdtand out as anything special, it was simply in a group of other coins that looked exactly the same as it.
Sheesh.
Edited to be a little less directionally abrasive. >>
Lee,
Maybe what bugs me most is if someone buys a mis-marked coin there are people on these boards that go nuts becuase someone ripped the dealer. Well if they only paid a few dollars for it, and then placed it into junk silver, someone comes in and buys a bunch of bulk silver, finds they coin, many of the people here would state they have to go back and pay the dealer for their find (recently Numismatic News was full of letters to the editor on this very subject). You simply can't have it both ways. If a professional doesn't have time to do a professional job, they should make a point to let the customers know we don't look for valualble coins, but it you would like to look yourself you can look for the vaule of the coins in this blue book or have a list they hand the customers. If the customer doesn't want to look their loss, and I'm okay with that. What is the point of belonging to ANA or PNG if it is buy everything at base metal and scower later for the good stuff.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Yes...I did already post this above... I'm posting it again... so there
<< <i>For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Yes...I did already post this above... I'm posting it again... so there
Interesting way to look at it. I think he knew exactly how this thread would progress. When I go, and it becomes time for my wife to liquidate my coins, I hope she finds someone who will take the time to do the job right. My $9.40 face value of Mercury Dimes is worth a bit more than melt.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>Maybe what bugs me most is if someone buys a mis-marked coin there are people on these boards that go nuts becuase someone ripped the dealer. Well if they only paid a few dollars for it, and then placed it into junk silver, someone comes in and buys a bunch of bulk silver, finds they coin, many of the people here would state they have to go back and pay the dealer for their find (recently Numismatic News was full of letters to the editor on this very subject). >>
A mis-marked coin is not exactly the same thing as an unidentified key in a bag of junk silver.
How many people do you suppose there are who would buy a bag of bulk silver at melt and then go back to the dealer if they found a key date coin in an effort to find the person who sold the coin to the dealer so that the original seller might be compensated (remember- the dealer only paid melt for it) for his unrecognized prize? I'm guessing not many.
<< <i>
<< <i>For all the "completely pure of heart" folks who have "judged" Al on this... if you are so gosh darn pure and above reproach as to feel that you are in a position to judge another... why don't you just sell your collection and all your possesions and give the money to charity...join the Peace Corp or the Salvation Army and go out and help the truly disadvantaged and needy...after all, you know so much and have more ability than them and it is just totally selfish and self-serving of you to not share all your wealth, knowledge and experience with those less fortunate than you...
No Wink...because I am not being sarcastic...
Yes...I did already post this above... I'm posting it again... so there
Interesting way to look at it. I think he knew exactly how this thread would progress. When I go, and it becomes time for my wife to liquidate my coins, I hope she finds someone who will take the time to do the job right. My $9.40 face value of Mercury Dimes is worth a bit more than melt. >>
And I hope you have taken the time to catalogue the collection and EDUCATE your wife (and other loved ones) as to the true value of your collection...as well as leave them the names of trusted dealers you have worked with over the years...
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>keets,
As you and most here know, you did fine.....
It's unbelievable how some folks get this "Holy'er Then Thou" thing when something unexpected that turns out to be good happens.
They twist it into this conspiracy type situation and think....how else could this have happened...well, just like keets said it did, that's how!
He did his own twisting---
Quote from his original post,
"He came in around noon and had several small coin purses and a plastic case with some jewelry"
Later he states,
"fcloud, you should come to the shop and see the 850,000 Wheat Cents we've bought since Thanksgiving and searched through one coin at a time."
I do understand you can't go through 850,000 wheat cents, but you can quickly run through the handful of items the guy brought in.
And someone asks about rationalization? >>
Hello? Is anybody home??
To quote Al "I still have a lot to learn but the date isn't one that I see very often so I grabbed the GreySheet and turned to the Barber Quarter page"
Al didn't have a clue what it was until HE looked it up! As a coin dealer or as a coin dealers apprentice, you just don't have the time to look EACH and EVERY coin up that comes across the counter. You either know what it is and pay fair market value or you don't know what it is and pay what you think its worth. To re-iterrate, this wasn't a single coin, it din;t sdtand out as anything special, it was simply in a group of other coins that looked exactly the same as it.
Sheesh.
Edited to be a little less directionally abrasive. >>
Lee,
Maybe what bugs me most is if someone buys a mis-marked coin there are people on these boards that go nuts becuase someone ripped the dealer. Well if they only paid a few dollars for it, and then placed it into junk silver, someone comes in and buys a bunch of bulk silver, finds they coin, many of the people here would state they have to go back and pay the dealer for their find (recently Numismatic News was full of letters to the editor on this very subject). You simply can't have it both ways. If a professional doesn't have time to do a professional job, they should make a point to let the customers know we don't look for valualble coins, but it you would like to look yourself you can look for the vaule of the coins in this blue book or have a list they hand the customers. If the customer doesn't want to look their loss, and I'm okay with that. What is the point of belonging to ANA or PNG if it is buy everything at base metal and scower later for the good stuff. >>
Your point is well taken. There are a lot of double standards that exist in these forums but I don;t think Al is one of those folks. Had he looked the coin up, I'm sure the feller would have been pleased. But he didn't as there was no reason too. It is totally possible that the 01-S was upside down when it was initially assessed. They were in a coin purse (or two).
The name is LEE!
<< <i>And I hope you have taken the time to catalogue the collection and EDUCATE your wife (and other loved ones) as to the true value of your collection...as well as leave them the names of trusted dealers you have worked with over the years... >>
I've cataloged the collection but don't have any dealers in mind although I'm sure she'd go to Gold Country Coin Exchange. Davids ok in my book but he just doesn't do IKE's.
Having said that, I'm sure that this fellow wasn't selling a "collection". Just some coins that had been stuck away. Maybe even pocket change?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>not many because NOT MANY IF ANY dealers turn over thier purchases without picking through them. period. there isnt time to go through all the coins....until after the check is written. >>
It's safer that way...easier to claim ignorance
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>not many because NOT MANY IF ANY dealers turn over thier purchases without picking through them. >>
I wasn't discussing that. I was talking about what buyers would do in the situation described above. I understand why some wouldn't want to explore that issue.
Sir, this is YOUR responsibility to make sure that is exactly what happens.
I have seen many a coin dollar do a quick look for key dates. How many barber quarter dates in AG, GD or VG is there? 2 or 3. How many key dates in Lincoln Cents and in Standing Liberty quarters? Not many. Most people on these forums know what they are selling when they go into a coin store and a lot of non coin collectors do a little checking before they walk thru the door. When i go to the doctor i do not read the medical book first although some do, just like i expect a lawyer to handle my problems with out me having to do his work for him.
My parents are getting old now. My dad is in his 80's and still pretty active. He was a judge and then an attorney for 50 plus years but sometimes you wonder what he is thinking upstairs.
If the barber was worth 200 dollars and you gave him 2 bucks no knowing is one thing in my book, but 2 or so bucks for a coin that turns out to be worth 5k or more is another.
No one answered if the dealer is a ANA or PNG dealer.
When anything gets bought and sold at prices that are way way out of line with fair market values i think it raises eyebrows. If this old man woke up tommorow and realized he sold his 5k or more quarter for a few bucks and went back to the store to see about getting it back what would the owner say or do?
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
<< <i>your question has no answer because there is no answer to a really stupid question >>
If you say so. As I said, I can understand why some wouldn't want to explore the issue.
<< <i>My only real gripe is the amount of the rip here, and i will say that i do not believe Keets set out to do this. The way the store does business probably needs to be looked at but then you could say i should do some things different in my business and i would agree to that.
I have seen many a coin dollar do a quick look for key dates. How many barber quarter dates in AG, GD or VG is there? 2 or 3. How many key dates in Lincoln Cents and in Standing Liberty quarters? Not many. Most people on these forums know what they are selling when they go into a coin store and a lot of non coin collectors do a little checking before they walk thru the door. When i go to the doctor i do not read the medical book first although some do, just like i expect a lawyer to handle my problems with out me having to do his work for him.
My parents are getting old now. My dad is in his 80's and still pretty active. He was a judge and then an attorney for 50 plus years but sometimes you wonder what he is thinking upstairs.
If the barber was worth 200 dollars and you gave him 2 bucks no knowing is one thing in my book, but 2 or so bucks for a coin that turns out to be worth 5k or more is another.
No one answered if the dealer is a ANA or PNG dealer.
When anything gets bought and sold at prices that are way way out of line with fair market values i think it raises eyebrows. If this old man woke up tommorow and realized he sold his 5k or more quarter for a few bucks and went back to the store to see about getting it back what would the owner say or do? >>
Agreed, and even when accidental, things like this cause people to think the worst of coin dealers as a whole.
Like I said earlier, I would do things different if it were me, or my store, but I still believe that Al didn't try to rip him off....he just does things quite differently and, at times, customers will get screwed (since, paying melt for these things will seldom screw the dealer...it's a win-win for them).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
find him and split whats left. you'll sleep again. it happened through no fault of yours; there's
still time to turn it positive.
I place no blame on him.
One of my favorite ways of analyzing a moral question is to ask 10 people their opinion.
Hopefully people who have nothing to do with the subject. Remember, 95 out of a 100 dont know what we know.
Break it down simple.
1. Man walks into store to sell
2. Man is made offer for coins and accepts based on the expertise of the dealer.
3. Dealer finds out he "ripped" an expensive coin.
4. Dealer makes no attempt to record information of client so no contact is possible.
This isnt a question of legality. It is a question of moral.
What do you think those 10 people would think?
How do you think the media would frame this scenario? Crucify is the word that comes to mind.
That sells ad space and newspapers.
If you dont inspect every coin, a phone number should be gathered.
This man is owed. Moral dictates it.
I think that is why he posted here.
he wasnt sure what the moral was.
As a dealer, if you dont have time to deal with flaky customers, maybe you should change careers.
For anyone out there Al is a hell of a guy, someone that i would want to be friends with. If some old man walked into a shop I was working and it was 2 deep- well that is the break in life.
How dare any of you condemn a man for doing his job!
I ripped a ebay seller tonight - 7 coins so far, for less than a hundred bucks, but the coins value is twice that easily. Am I a happy camper- not really- but I bid, nobody bid against me and the auction ended as it was.
Keets did his job and was fortunate to find a surprise- let it rest.
2518:1339
Apr 20, 2008 1901S PCGS 6
A very important offering in any grade. The devices and rims are worn flat with the devices to silhouette. A classic low mintage Barber Quarter Dollar, which for decades has been considered by specialists to be an integral addition to a complete set. There were 72, 644 coins minted for this issue.
Realized: $6,400.
Auction 2717 • Lot 1604 • Sunday, July 12, 2009 Previous Lot • Next lot
Quarter 1901S PCGS 8
Most of the known coins of this issue are graded below Very Fine. Coins graded Extremely Fine and About Uncirculated are very rare. This issue is heavily counterfeited and it is reported that more counterfeits exist than do actual coins. A very important offering in any grade. A classic low mintage Barber Quarter Dollar, which for decades has been considered by specialists to be an integral addition to a complete set. There were 72, 644 coins minted for this issue.
<< <i>That coin is worth more than $5,000.00 if it is authentic. The last one that sold on TT was in April, 2008 and surprisingly enough there are two that are coming up July 12th. For all we know, Keets could be the one that got ripped, there are a lot of counterfeits out there. >>
IF it were counterfeit, Keets wouldn't have gotten ripped, nor, really, would the coin store as it was only "melt" paid, right?
As I mentioned earlier, the coin shop really had NOTHING to lose in paying melt for items.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I suppose if you approach a real estate agent, wanting to sell a piece of land, and subsequently sell it, is the buyer expected to come back to you as the seller with a big check because he has since discovered oil on what used to be your land? Not hardly.
Count me in the "No wrong done here" crowd.
What if the coin belonged to the store owner and this was a test for keets?
Keets wrote
"so I paid him for the coins and he headed out the door. I put the plastic bowls containing the coins on my boss' desk and moved on to the next customer.
Our routine is for my boss to sort through everything first. If something stands out he puts it aside or places what's left on my desk. Then I sort through everything and it goes to the show boxes, store stock, 2X2 bins in the store or it gets packaged up in bulk lots to be resold as junk silver. "
He also mentions that he is quite new to this job and he is building up trust with the dealer.
If the dealer looked through the coins first he maybe slipped the coin mentioned into the pile and handed it to keets.
A- To see if keets had the knowledge or gumption to "find " it.
B- To see if keets would report the "find" or try and keep it?
This has nothing to do wtih the story, but this seemed as good a place as any to share my dream.
I have been on here for quite some time, but not nearly so much in the past few years. But I have read enough of Al's posts and been in contact on PMs to know he is a pretty good guy and a great source of Jeff nickel info! I enjoyed the story, and congrats to you, Al, for having the fortitude to stand up to the flame wars that came from the OP. You did state that the man didn't want to sell the jewelry, and did not leave his number for return contact. I also find the fact that he told you to give the jewelry to your wife if you found it a VERY ODD thing to say. No one else seemed to catch on to that.
The gentleman obviously either had the coins for a very long time, picking them out of circulation as being "not recent" and never thought to see about rarity since he obviously did not collect in the true sense of the word, OR he "found them" or came by them by other than honest means. This statement is derived from the conversation Al had on the phone with the guy. If the jewelry was his wife's (deceased or not??) why would he not want them back if found??? Why did he seem not to really care???? maybe he was a "handy man" who took a widow or other woman on a "job" meanwhile perusing her things for stuff to fence. Then again, maybe he and his old lady got into a messy divorce some years ago (or recently) and he found some stuff she had obviously forgotten about when she moved out, so, he figures....."f--k the b---h, I'm gonna get something out of this stuff"
Until you know ALL the facts, I can't see the flames being deserved. I know for a fact that looking at this kind of stuff every day for hours on end would get numbing....plus Al only knew offhand that the Barber in question was an odd date, he had to consult the Book for what it really was...I am quite sure I would have caught it, but I still find nothing wrong with what he did. There was not a true "intent" on "ripping" the guy.....plus I still go back to the man's odd behavior concerning the jewelry....smoething doesn't make sense there.......
Remember... do not turn to the general forum for advice or feedback on anything...unless it is specifically to learn about some detailed aspect of numismatic research I am unable to locate in my library.
There are enough posters here with common sense and no "holier-than-though" airs that I can turn to those sensible folks, if needed, thru PM function.
There are way too many yahoos and pitas on this forum for me to bother bringing out any details of my business transactions... too many who are always too quick to find fault in and judge another's actions...
Note to forum members---
If you are a person I have yet to meet and/or do any trading with... and you feel that you are above reproach and in the privileged position of being able to judge people and tell them what they should do... if you fall into that category... PLEASE take note of my handle here on this forum and if you should ever see this name on a sign at a show...please keep on walking... I have no time to deal with pitas nor the desire to suffer fools.
If you are nice, friendly and open minded I am eager to meet you... if you are belligerent, judgemental and unfriendly ... well...I wish you no harm but please stay away from me...it's a big world and there's plenty of room for everyone...
...(it would be so much nicer, though, if everyone could just be nice
Thank you...
Respectfully...
...Larry Greenstone
Sea Eagle Coins
"...This issue is heavily counterfeited and it is reported that more counterfeits exist than do actual coins."...
Is it neat that Al found a 1901-S quarter? Yes, very cool!
Is it a shame they didn't tell the customer, "we don't check for rare coins, and if you would like to do a quick check yourself here is a book or list?" Yes, to that as well.
Should they change the way they do things? IMO there is an easy fix for future customers. Simply make a hand out and if the customer would like to compare dates/mint marks to a list they are at least given the opportunity. If they don't want to look all is fair.
Most likely an honest mistake and Al should sleep well, he did what was procedure at the shop, and didn't intentionally mislead. I think that is perfectly clear.
To the members of this forum -- just be consistent. This was just and honest mistake, and when a story gets put up where the dealer had something marked for $x.xx and the value was much higher, but the customer paid the price marked. The same set of standards should apply. Not a different standard where everyone blasts the customer. I've been here long enough to have seen stories like this in the past. Where the customer is the one that's wrong.
If you feel a need to blast me feel free to include fcloud or Tony in your comments.
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
At least not yet........hehehe
A few points - You said your boss is NOW starting to give you more responsibility, Well, TRUST is a huge part of that.
2 - So, your Boss had to think of something to test you with,
And walla, One of the oldest tricks in the book, put a valuable counterfeit coin in some pile of coins to have you sort/search/organize........
You past the Test Keets, good for you.!!.....Now show your Boss you Really know your coins , and tell him that it is Fake.!! You just might make Store Manager.!!
Good Eye, and I am sure the Old man's jewelry is still in his car somewhere.!! Probably in the glove box......
<< <i>"Gall" is thinking that this is a situation in ANY way "right". What a crock, and a such a lovely light it casts on coin dealers everywhere. Pfffffft. All kinds, it takes. >>