Not to make the gold buy sound insignificant, although in the grand scheme it is, last year WMT paid over $7 billion in income taxes. Today Warren Buffet paid $44 billion in cash and stock for a railroad and Stanley Works is buying Black & Decker for $4.5 billion.
The much anticipated IMF sale did remove the overhand of available gold on the market though, and I suppose that is a good thing.
200 tons of gold is only 1 month of world production. And with central banks eager to swap dollars for bullion and take large quantities of gold off the market without jacking the price and ultimately shooting themselves in the foot, this seems to be a win-win. India had curtainled their gold buying much of this year in anticipation of lower prices. Since that didn't happen and might not happen, getting tons now helps to fill their demands. China is a gold mining giant now and can get lots of gold from their own miners.
Since the IMF gold sales come under the umbrella of the recently renewed five-year European central bank gold sales agreement with a reduced cap of 400 tonnes per year (down from 500 tonnes per year in the prior agreement due to a dearth of sellers), the sale to India accounts for half of the entire 2009-2010 sales.
<< <i>It seems interesting to me that both India and Warren Buffet are dumping the dollar to buy hard assets.
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales! >>
Just playing symantics.....
Dont you dump dollars when you go to Starbucks?
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play?
<< <i>It seems interesting to me that both India and Warren Buffet are dumping the dollar to buy hard assets.
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales! >>
Just playing symantics.....
Dont you dump dollars when you go to Starbucks?
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play? >>
Is it India that makes jewelry or the people of India? Did the government of India buy this gold for their jewelers to use or to bolster their coffers?
<< <i>It seems interesting to me that both India and Warren Buffet are dumping the dollar to buy hard assets.
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales! >>
Just playing symantics.....
Dont you dump dollars when you go to Starbucks?
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play? >>
Is it India that makes jewelry or the people of India? Did the government of India buy this gold for their jewelers to use or to bolster their coffers? >>
Given that jewelry manufacturing is VERY big and important to India, I would say that the industry is heavily supported by the Government. I think it very logical to think this gold is going directly to the manufacturers. 25% of India's population lives in poverty, therefore I hardly think their central bank is concerned about holding yellow metal. A citizen working cannot protest or riot.
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play?
Dave I don't think Buffet could spend 34 billion at Starbucks, Ha Ha
I think the Indian Gold went to their central bank not to their jewelers??
India's Central Bank gold and the publics gold is separate!
This article was written before the addition of the 200 tons.
Tuesday, October 27, 2009 by Ganesh Rathnam
India's Per Capita Gold Holdings
India's private gold ownership is difficult to determine accurately. However, several websites, such as Gold Eagle, estimate the total private gold holdings to be about 15,000 metric tons. Compared to that figure, the Indian government owns a negligible 360 metric tons of gold.
Given that total gold mined in history is about 160,000 metric tons, India's stake then amounts to 9.6 percent of the world's total gold stock. In contrast, India accounts for just over 17 percent of the world's population. Therefore, India's large gold ownership is just a function of its large population, and its per capita gold ownership is well below average.
I have reduced my gold holdings from 45% down to 10% at the high price yesterday. I may regret doing so but most of the holdings were bought under $500.00 a ounce. I decided to remove some profit off the table. I read a story in a history book once and you never know if history will repeat itself again or not. TULIP MANIA
"At the peak of tulip mania in February 1637, tulip contracts sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble (or economic bubble).
By 1636, tulips were traded on the exchanges of numerous Dutch towns and cities. This encouraged trading in tulips by all members of society.
Many individuals grew suddenly rich. A golden bait hung temptingly out before the people, and, one after the other, they rushed to the tulip marts, like flies around a honey-pot. Every one imagined that the passion for tulips would last for ever, and that the wealthy from every part of the world would send to Holland, and pay whatever prices were asked for them. The riches of Europe would be concentrated on the shores of the Zuyder Zee, and poverty banished from the favoured clime of Holland. Nobles, citizens, farmers, mechanics, seamen, footmen, maidservants, even chimney-sweeps and old clotheswomen, dabbled in tulips.
People were purchasing bulbs at higher and higher prices, intending to re-sell them for a profit. However, such a scheme could not last unless someone was ultimately willing to pay such high prices and take possession of the bulbs. In February 1637, tulip traders could no longer find new buyers willing to pay increasingly inflated prices for their bulbs. As this realization set in, the demand for tulips collapsed, and prices plummeted—the speculative bubble burst. Some were left holding contracts to purchase tulips at prices now ten times greater than those on the open market, while others found themselves in possession of bulbs now worth a fraction of the price they had paid." the current situation with the GOLD MANIA is becoming practically identical to TULIP BULB MANIA which was the first documented speculative bubble in history. this GOLD MANIA is being driven by HOT MONEY SPECULATIVE FUNDS which is Paulson's specialty.
Once again, the fundamentals aren't driving the price of gold
I am bullish on gold but not much of a gambler
Many successful BST transactions ajia (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes, mariner67, and Mikes coins
You are now holding dollars, and you're not gambling on them?
They can print dollars alot faster than they can mine gold.
Full Disclosure - I'm way-overweighted in pms. I'm also sitting on some cash that is earmarked for another pm buy, waiting to pull the trigger. The money is going into pms, it's just a matter of "when".
There is *nothing* on the horizon that leads me to think that paper (stocks, bonds, cash) is going to be any better than pms if a massive credit crunch, deflation, inflation or stagflation occurs.
It's all relative - maybe everything will rise; maybe everything will crash. It's a question of relativity. Which will crash harder or rise quicker? Risk vs. Potential Return. Everyone has their own view.
I don't trust those sobs in Washington DC, but maybe that's just me talkin.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>I am bullish on gold but not much of a gambler
You are now holding dollars, and you're not gambling on them?
They can print dollars allot faster than they can mine gold. >>
I didn't say I sold ALL my gold just reduced my position. I had over $274,000 in gold bars and coins in the bank vault! you have to admit for a working man this was quite a sum! I am nearing retirement I would hate to miss out on a good return. I believe this move to be a healthy one in my situation. Others my think different. I still hold a good amount of PMs in the bank. I also am buying a large amount of rich farm land so in a way I will still have a hard asset The only difference is I can grow food and eat from the land.
Many successful BST transactions ajia (x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes, mariner67, and Mikes coins
Those tulips never were money, but gold was. And the tulips (non-money) didn't reach a record high over 2 decades earlier and then fall 75% in value as forces were set in motion to keep commodities under wraps for those decades. Consider that oil fell from $60 to $12 over that period.....gold had plenty of company while our consumer goods price inflation was exported. However we kept the massive asset inflation right here in the USA (homes, stocks, bonds). Of course one has to include special services inflation (lawyer fees, health care services, education costs, taxes). But since they aren't consumed every day, no one pays them any mind when the CPI rolls out each month. I don't believe lawyer fees and taxes (soc. sec, property, sales, etc.) show up in the CPI. Wait till the Value Added Taxes start showing up. They also won't be in the CPI. When this cycle plays out gold will still be money/currency alternative while the tulip will always be relegated to 17th century history.
The ratio of pog to oil is still about the same (14:1) as it was during typical periods in the 1970's. Oil at $147 was far more an abberation than gold at $1033 last year.
The price of gold will probably stabilize when interest rates head north for 12 months.
I don't see that happenning in 2010.
The underlying economy...while I feel a little bit better about it and my biz has picked up a little ...is still really weak.
The fed needs to feed this economy by1) keeping interest rates where they are and 2) relying on the depreciation of the dollar (of YOUR savings acct) to fuel the economy. They are currently really efficient at printing money and depreciating your life savings.
Furthermore, the United States has ...for the last 100 years...been very successful convincing it's citizens to accumulate weath in PAPER--------notes, stocks and bonds. That may be coming to a grinding halt.
Here's a convenient link listing all documents/public statements over the past 50 years that GATA feels point to a consistent gold manipulation scheme by the central banks. Just this past year another few documents popped up from the 60's and 70's. I took the time to read the 1961 St. Louis FED Fraser letter and found it interesting. Basically it delved into ways of how to keep FED and CB operations concerning gold and foreign exchange operations from public scrutiny.
If it were true, it would be comparatively easy for the CB's to come out and prove that no such scheme exists via audits, CB records review, etc. Yet as GATA says, the CB's maintain the secrecy of gold dealings at a higher level than that of nuclear weapons technology.
Now that Sinclair's key date of Nov 8th has come and gone (ie the G20 meetings) maybe some kudo's are in order. He predicted back in January that at the end of the 2nd week in November that things would become far different for the US dollar and gold would start to shine. While the $USD price didn't do anything drastic, the price of gold has certainly separated to some extent this week while cracking $1100. Our export partners could be currently propping the dollar up. Gold doesn't appear to be interested. The dollar now falling under 75.5 questions whether there is real strength behind it. A move back under 75.0 to 74.9 to retest the yearly low could be a do or die situation.
The above article suggests that moves like Brazil's recent 2% import capital inflows tax would shift some money headed to emerging market investments towards gold. Something to think about.
A thoughtful article looking into the various factors that play a role in the price of gold. The author focuses on mining production and jewelry demand and concludes that both pale in comparison to investment demand. Annual gold production may increase down the road but more than likely will be long after commodities have peaked (similar to the increases that occured in the 1980's). In summary Saville agrees that gold acts more like a foreign currency than a commodity.
"...gold acts more like a foreign currency than a commodity."
Well, I don't know that I would phrase it as a foreign currency since gold has no allegiance except to its physical owner but it certainly acts as an alternate currency. Think of when the folk that trade commodities no longer want to have it traded in USD and prefer another type of currency such as the Euro or the "in the wings" basket currency. At that point you will not only have to time your purchase to the spot price but you will have to adjust your spot price to the current exchange rate of USD v.s. the other currency. It might be a question as to whether you can even buy gold with USDs. Throw on a little VAT for USD purchases and boom...you're in the bonus zone.
It would seem plausible that other than licensed investors, 18 carat or 75% pure may be the purest form that a "citizen" could own, maybe only 14c. If it becomes a precious commodity/currency that is lusted after by the big banker types/gov dogs then you can be pretty darn sure they are gonna try and shut regular folk out of investment grade physical gold. Kinda makes those Buffalos look real special.
Nope, full sheets are wayyyyy wayyyy outta my league. This was the special commemorative issue in the little red box from last year and I only got one. Kind of a strange promotion by the mint...they gave you this special little red commemorative box and a coa and all but just threw one wrapped regular buff from a sheet in the box. Strange but cool. Sure makes a killer photo though.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Wow, Kirby's Fort Tungsten article is a potential mind-blower and massive game changer. Just imagine if Fort Knox, GLD, the Comex, and other supposedly good sources of .995 bars is chock full of tungsten fakes. While most will dismiss Kirby's claim that Fort Knox was shipped 8000 tons of Tungsten bars during the Clinton/Rubin years, it's not like he's going to sell a lot more subscriptions by posting this information. Suffice to say that books are cooked to some extent in the gold market. To what extent we'll all know in the not too distant future. His linking the Rothschild exit and formation of GLD in 2004 makes a lot of sense. I expect the worst from bankers when they are given the freedom to make choices. So far, they've yet to disappoint me.
Armstrong weaves a nice history of gold and monetary panics in the 19th and early 20th centuries. In order to understand where the dollar and gold are going, one has to understand the past as well. I probably learned some of this stuff in history classes but remembered very little. By reading his account of the 1869 gold panic ($165/oz) leads to the derivation of the word "hooker." You learn something new everyday. Armstrong is not an advocate of a gold standard but just for honest politicians who will police the money supply. He realizes neither is very likely. Gold he calls the true hedge against lack of govt and monetary confidence. He's calling for $5000 gold by 2016 when his 64 year gold cycle peaks. He calls for turning points in November 2009 and April 2010. The next big step-up in gold will come in 2010-2011. A great refresher on our gold and monetary history.
I like the way that jewelry dealer Perry in Charlotte, NC is fattening up the sheeple for slaugher by suggesting one can only expect to get 70% of "value" for their gold items. I guess he doesn't realize that there are plenty of buyers out there for gold scrap and right up to 95% of "value." Even at 70% that probably beats the mail your gold or hotel buyers by about 30-60%.
1): The Chinese parties were signing papers at the World Court on 11th November 2009, following preparatory activity on 10th November, to execute their LIEN on the US Treasury. As one of the key aggrieved Beneficiary Owners of the loaned 10,000 tonnes of gold and the currency boxes etc., the World Court powers will enable them to seize US assets around the world within their jurisdictions and probably even on the high seas and at airports, to the value of the stolen/diverted assets.
The above link includes a 1993 quote from Chairman Greenspan taken during some FED minutes asking what would be the effect of selling some treasury gold into the market? I had never seen this quote before. His famous 1998 quote about central banks standing by to lease gold to bring down the pog is included as well.
Of course we all know that not a single ounce of US gold has been sold/leased/swapped over the past 30 yrs because the audited tonnage has not changed.......
1993-1994 is also about the time frame that the fabled 16,000 tons of tungsten 400 oz. gold bricks came into being.
The stated reason for the above shift from GLD into 2.23 MILL shares of Barrick gold was to take advantage of the leverage gold miners have. Seems to me that the more obvious reason was just to get out of GLD.
"I have one other issue I'd like to throw on the table. I hesitate to do it, but let me tell you some of the issues that are involved here. If we are dealing with psychology, then the thermometers one uses to measure it have an effect. I was raising the question on the side with Governor Mullins of what would happen if the Treasury sold a little gold in this market. There's an interesting question here because if the gold price broke in that context, the thermometer would not be just a measuring tool. It would basically affect the underlying psychology."
roadrunner, all you have to do is apply a little of the fractional reserve banking mentality to Greenspan's remarks and voila' - you have paper gold controlling the gold market!
Well, at least until some big creditor nation wants to be paid for all those dollars that aren't earning interest.............
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Federal Reserve Credit declined $33.2bn last week to $2.116 TN. Fed Credit has declined $131bn y-t-d and $82.5bn over the past 52 weeks. Elsewhere, Fed Foreign Holdings of Treasury, Agency Debt this past week (ended 11/11) increased $6.9bn to a record $2.917 TN. "Custody holdings" have expanded at an 18.4% rate y-t-d, and were up $409bn over the past year, or 16.3%.
M2 (narrow) "money" supply declined $6.5bn to $8.387 TN (week of 11/2). Narrow "money" has expanded at a 2.8% rate y-t-d and 5.7% over the past year.
The items that seems odd is the growth in the FED foreign holdings of Agency Debt. $409 BILL is not peanuts. This is a potential back door liquidity facility where foreign countries can sell overpriced GSE debt back to the FED for Treasuries. The FED trades away liquid assets for illiquid ones while keeping the money supply constant. The Treasuries can later be sold for currency/cash. It also helps to keep the prices of treasuries up and in-demand. I wonder if some of the money indirect bond bidders have been forking over is coming from this swapping of Agency debt?
Protecting the dollar? Not this trip, maybe next time..............Besides, I think a higher stock market is more important to the Dem's and their 2010 re-elections then a stronger dollar...............MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Yepper, Proof..."There's a lot of odd little news stories lately... the kind that get posted here but miss mainstream attention. Something's about to give."
It's very suprising that there's really no news about the money. Media talks about the dollar being lower and that's why gold is high and they talk about oil demand being low in the US and the USD price for oil is up because the dollar is down and about the demand for US treasuries (even if we are buying them ourselves) is still high but no one is leaning out and handicapping even the near term implications. I believe that there is a strong, orchestrated effort to not spook the herd with any dire predictions.
So, looking at the little US map posted here with the unemployment by county time line really should scare the hell out of everyone. And hey, it's only 8.6%...yeah, that looks real believable. Unfortunately, the map IS very believable and I didn't notice any change in the trend...DC area, insulated with all the govies, midwest...hey, they make food, the rest of the guys look like toast. It's kinda strange that everything has tanked in just one year. Meanwhile the stock market is above 10,000 and seemingly rising on our inproved production and low inflation...huh? From yesterday on unemployment trends
What no one wants to expose is that we are so ultra vulnerable right now. No one in the media even dares to prognosticate what this means but surely they have an idea but with the media in the tank you shouldn't be looking for anything but parrot talk. You better be thinkin' for yourself for the game is indeed on "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows". It would be so nice for the mainstream media to give some guidance and direction here kind of like "rules for modern survival" or something like that. They would have to say get rid of your debt, do not carry credit balances on your cards, stash cash, buy metal, leave the paper stuff alone including equities, stock up on guns and butter but none of that will get said...don't spook the herd, just keep the music playing like on the Titanic.
Meanwhile, back on the farm, China is receiving a bowing Big O and I bet we hear nothing of what the people of the middle earth tells him about the money. Oh yeah, don't ever forget, it's about the money.
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
"Look out kid, you're gonna get hit. God knows when, but they're doin' it again........"
mhammerman, let's not forget that the majority of folks want to "believe". They want to believe that their retirements will still be there when they need them. They want to believe that their government isn't a malicious tentacled beast, expropriating their assets away from them faster than they can sock any savings away.
The financial talking heads themselves have a vested interest in keeping the dream alive, er the fantasy alive.
If you point out the truth to anyone, you are either crazy, a hate monger, delusional, full of negativity or just plain pitiful. The American Public has had a psych job done on them, and they don't *want* anything to change. They voted for it, but they don't want what they were told that they wanted.
Next thing we know, they will be selling off pieces to China, or Saudi. Say hello to your new neighbors. I wouldn't put it past this bunch.
The reason that the work ethic made America great was because it is based in reality. For the past decades, we've been slipping into a fantasy economy, and the fantasy is ending - as all good fantasies must end - back in reality.
Let's spend our way out of recession.
I'm suspending the free market in order to save the free market.
The unions have negotiated their way out of a job with the highest pay and benefits on record, so let's reward them by keeping them on the job. Expensive cars, huh?
This has been an unfortunate man-caused tragedy. However, we will continue to closely monitor for potential terrorism activities those ordinary working folks who showed up at the tea parties and just returned from the military.
It looks like it's not going well.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>Protecting the dollar? Not this trip, maybe next time..............Besides, I think a higher stock market is more important to the Dem's and their 2010 re-elections then a stronger dollar...............MJ
<< <i>Protecting the dollar? Not this trip, maybe next time..............Besides, I think a higher stock market is more important to the Dem's and their 2010 re-elections then a stronger dollar...............MJ
If Soros truly thinks the economy is slipping back into recession, he's not going to be happy with the performance of anything on that list of investments, particularly energy and silver. It doesn't add up.
Comments
A lot less than Wal Mart paid in taxes.
Not to make the gold buy sound insignificant, although in the grand scheme it is, last year WMT paid over $7 billion in income taxes. Today Warren Buffet paid $44 billion in cash and stock for a railroad and Stanley Works is buying Black & Decker for $4.5 billion.
The much anticipated IMF sale did remove the overhand of available gold on the market though, and I suppose that is a good thing.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
roadrunner
The significance of the IMF-RBI gold sales
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales!
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>It seems interesting to me that both India and Warren Buffet are dumping the dollar to buy hard assets.
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales! >>
Just playing symantics.....
Dont you dump dollars when you go to Starbucks?
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>It seems interesting to me that both India and Warren Buffet are dumping the dollar to buy hard assets.
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales! >>
Just playing symantics.....
Dont you dump dollars when you go to Starbucks?
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play? >>
Is it India that makes jewelry or the people of India? Did the government of India buy this gold for their jewelers to use or to bolster their coffers?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>It seems interesting to me that both India and Warren Buffet are dumping the dollar to buy hard assets.
India bought gold and Buffet bought Trains!
All of us play our little games of monopoly just on different scales! >>
Just playing symantics.....
Dont you dump dollars when you go to Starbucks?
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play? >>
Is it India that makes jewelry or the people of India? Did the government of India buy this gold for their jewelers to use or to bolster their coffers? >>
Given that jewelry manufacturing is VERY big and important to India, I would say that the industry is heavily supported by the Government. I think it very logical to think this gold is going directly to the manufacturers. 25% of India's population lives in poverty, therefore I hardly think their central bank is concerned about holding yellow metal. A citizen working cannot protest or riot.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Dollars are only a medium of exchange. India consumes 600 tonnes of gold every year in the making of jewelry. Where does the "dumping of dollars" mantra come into play?
Dave I don't think Buffet could spend 34 billion at Starbucks, Ha Ha
I think the Indian Gold went to their central bank not to their jewelers??
This article was written before the addition of the 200 tons.
Tuesday, October 27, 2009 by Ganesh Rathnam
India's Per Capita Gold Holdings
India's private gold ownership is difficult to determine accurately. However, several websites, such as Gold Eagle, estimate the total private gold holdings to be about 15,000 metric tons. Compared to that figure, the Indian government owns a negligible 360 metric tons of gold.
Given that total gold mined in history is about 160,000 metric tons, India's stake then amounts to 9.6 percent of the world's total gold stock. In contrast, India accounts for just over 17 percent of the world's population. Therefore, India's large gold ownership is just a function of its large population, and its per capita gold ownership is well below average.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
TULIP MANIA
"At the peak of tulip mania in February 1637, tulip contracts sold for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled craftsman. It is generally considered the first recorded speculative bubble (or economic bubble).
By 1636, tulips were traded on the exchanges of numerous Dutch towns and cities. This encouraged trading in tulips by all members of society.
Many individuals grew suddenly rich. A golden bait hung temptingly out before the people, and, one after the other, they rushed to the tulip marts, like flies around a honey-pot. Every one imagined that the passion for tulips would last for ever, and that the wealthy from every part of the world would send to Holland, and pay whatever prices were asked for them. The riches of Europe would be concentrated on the shores of the Zuyder Zee, and poverty banished from the favoured clime of Holland. Nobles, citizens, farmers, mechanics, seamen, footmen, maidservants, even chimney-sweeps and old clotheswomen, dabbled in tulips.
People were purchasing bulbs at higher and higher prices, intending to re-sell them for a profit. However, such a scheme could not last unless someone was ultimately willing to pay such high prices and take possession of the bulbs. In February 1637, tulip traders could no longer find new buyers willing to pay increasingly inflated prices for their bulbs. As this realization set in, the demand for tulips collapsed, and prices plummeted—the speculative bubble burst. Some were left holding contracts to purchase tulips at prices now ten times greater than those on the open market, while others found themselves in possession of bulbs now worth a fraction of the price they had paid." the current situation with the GOLD MANIA is becoming practically identical to TULIP BULB MANIA which was the first documented speculative bubble in history. this GOLD MANIA is being driven by HOT MONEY SPECULATIVE FUNDS which is Paulson's specialty.
Once again, the fundamentals aren't driving the price of gold
I am bullish on gold but not much of a gambler
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
You are now holding dollars, and you're not gambling on them?
They can print dollars alot faster than they can mine gold.
Full Disclosure - I'm way-overweighted in pms. I'm also sitting on some cash that is earmarked for another pm buy, waiting to pull the trigger. The money is going into pms, it's just a matter of "when".
There is *nothing* on the horizon that leads me to think that paper (stocks, bonds, cash) is going to be any better than pms if a massive credit crunch, deflation, inflation or stagflation occurs.
It's all relative - maybe everything will rise; maybe everything will crash. It's a question of relativity. Which will crash harder or rise quicker? Risk vs. Potential Return. Everyone has their own view.
I don't trust those sobs in Washington DC, but maybe that's just me talkin.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>I am bullish on gold but not much of a gambler
You are now holding dollars, and you're not gambling on them?
They can print dollars allot faster than they can mine gold. >>
I didn't say I sold ALL my gold just reduced my position. I had over $274,000 in gold bars and coins in the bank vault! you have to admit for a working man this was quite a sum! I am nearing retirement I would hate to miss out on a good return. I believe this move to be a healthy one in my situation. Others my think different. I still hold a good amount of PMs in the bank. I also am buying a large amount of rich farm land so in a way I will still have a hard asset The only difference is I can grow food and eat from the land.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Me too! And good luck to you, sir!
I knew it would happen.
The ratio of pog to oil is still about the same (14:1) as it was during typical periods in the 1970's. Oil at $147 was far more an abberation than gold at $1033 last year.
roadrunner
1. Gold is finite in quantity
2. Gold is getting ever more expensive to mine.
3. For over 3000 years, gold has been an accepted
store house of value as well as a measure of wealth.
4. Gold is not with out a degree of risk, depending at
what price you buy it.t can fluctuate, but it will always
retain a strong measure of value.
5. Empires have risen and fallen because of gold or the
lack of gold.
Camelot
I don't see that happenning in 2010.
The underlying economy...while I feel a little bit better about it and my biz has picked up a little ...is still really weak.
The fed needs to feed this economy by1) keeping interest rates where they are and 2) relying on the depreciation of the dollar (of YOUR savings acct) to fuel the economy. They are currently really efficient at printing money and depreciating your life savings.
Furthermore, the United States has ...for the last 100 years...been very successful convincing it's citizens to accumulate weath in PAPER--------notes, stocks and bonds. That may be coming to a grinding halt.
Here's a convenient link listing all documents/public statements over the past 50 years that GATA feels point to a consistent gold manipulation scheme by the central banks. Just this past year another few documents popped up from the 60's and 70's. I took the time to read the 1961 St. Louis FED Fraser letter and found it interesting. Basically it delved into ways of how to keep FED and CB operations concerning gold and foreign exchange operations from public scrutiny.
If it were true, it would be comparatively easy for the CB's to come out and prove that no such scheme exists via audits, CB records review, etc. Yet as GATA says, the CB's maintain the secrecy of gold dealings at a higher level than that of nuclear weapons technology.
Now that Sinclair's key date of Nov 8th has come and gone (ie the G20 meetings) maybe some kudo's are in order. He predicted back in January that at the end of the 2nd week in November that things would become far different for the US dollar and gold would start to shine. While the $USD price didn't do anything drastic, the price of gold has certainly separated to some extent this week while cracking $1100. Our export partners could be currently propping the dollar up. Gold doesn't appear to be interested. The dollar now falling under 75.5 questions whether there is real strength behind it. A move back under 75.0 to 74.9 to retest the yearly low could be a do or die situation.
Import price controls
The above article suggests that moves like Brazil's recent 2% import capital inflows tax would shift some money headed to emerging market investments towards gold. Something to think about.
roadrunner
agree
soon (me thinks) a weak dollar won't make the NYSE happy
A thoughtful article looking into the various factors that play a role in the price of gold. The author focuses on mining production and jewelry demand and concludes that both pale in comparison to investment demand. Annual gold production may increase down the road but more than likely will be long after commodities have peaked (similar to the increases that occured in the 1980's). In summary Saville agrees that gold acts more like a foreign currency than a commodity.
roadrunner
Well, I don't know that I would phrase it as a foreign currency since gold has no allegiance except to its physical owner but it certainly acts as an alternate currency. Think of when the folk that trade commodities no longer want to have it traded in USD and prefer another type of currency such as the Euro or the "in the wings" basket currency. At that point you will not only have to time your purchase to the spot price but you will have to adjust your spot price to the current exchange rate of USD v.s. the other currency. It might be a question as to whether you can even buy gold with USDs. Throw on a little VAT for USD purchases and boom...you're in the bonus zone.
It would seem plausible that other than licensed investors, 18 carat or 75% pure may be the purest form that a "citizen" could own, maybe only 14c. If it becomes a precious commodity/currency that is lusted after by the big banker types/gov dogs then you can be pretty darn sure they are gonna try and shut regular folk out of investment grade physical gold. Kinda makes those Buffalos look real special.
Nope, full sheets are wayyyyy wayyyy outta my league. This was the special commemorative issue in the little red box from last year and I only got one. Kind of a strange promotion by the mint...they gave you this special little red commemorative box and a coa and all but just threw one wrapped regular buff from a sheet in the box. Strange but cool. Sure makes a killer photo though.
Love the buffalo in UNC; such simple emc2=beauty...
Miles
Maket watch. com today any thing ??
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Martin Armstrong on gold's history
Armstrong weaves a nice history of gold and monetary panics in the 19th and early 20th centuries. In order to understand where the dollar and gold are going, one has to understand the past as well. I probably learned some of this stuff in history classes but remembered very little. By reading his account of the 1869 gold panic ($165/oz) leads to the derivation of the word "hooker." You learn something new everyday. Armstrong is not an advocate of a gold standard but just for honest politicians who will police the money supply. He realizes neither is very likely. Gold he calls the true hedge against lack of govt and monetary confidence. He's calling for $5000 gold by 2016 when his 64 year gold cycle peaks. He calls for turning points in November 2009 and April 2010. The next big step-up in gold will come in 2010-2011. A great refresher on our gold and monetary history.
roadrunner
roadrunner
1): The Chinese parties were signing papers at the World Court on 11th November 2009, following preparatory activity on 10th November, to execute their LIEN on the US Treasury. As one of the key aggrieved Beneficiary Owners of the loaned 10,000 tonnes of gold and the currency boxes etc., the World Court powers will enable them to seize US assets around the world within their jurisdictions and probably even on the high seas and at airports, to the value of the stolen/diverted assets.
Chinese Lien on US Treasury?
The above link includes a 1993 quote from Chairman Greenspan taken during some FED minutes asking what would be the effect of selling some treasury gold into the market? I had never seen this quote before. His famous 1998 quote about central banks standing by to lease gold to bring down the pog is included as well.
Of course we all know that not a single ounce of US gold has been sold/leased/swapped over the past 30 yrs because the audited tonnage has not changed.......
1993-1994 is also about the time frame that the fabled 16,000 tons of tungsten 400 oz. gold bricks came into being.
Touradji Capital Management leaves GLD...follows in the foot prints of Greenlight Capital
The stated reason for the above shift from GLD into 2.23 MILL shares of Barrick gold was to take advantage of the leverage gold miners have. Seems to me that the more obvious reason was just to get out of GLD.
roadrunner
roadrunner, all you have to do is apply a little of the fractional reserve banking mentality to Greenspan's remarks and voila' - you have paper gold controlling the gold market!
Well, at least until some big creditor nation wants to be paid for all those dollars that aren't earning interest.............
I knew it would happen.
Federal Reserve Credit declined $33.2bn last week to $2.116 TN. Fed Credit has declined $131bn y-t-d and $82.5bn over the past 52 weeks. Elsewhere, Fed Foreign Holdings of Treasury, Agency Debt this past week (ended 11/11) increased $6.9bn to a record $2.917 TN. "Custody holdings" have expanded at an 18.4% rate y-t-d, and were up $409bn over the past year, or 16.3%.
M2 (narrow) "money" supply declined $6.5bn to $8.387 TN (week of 11/2). Narrow "money" has expanded at a 2.8% rate y-t-d and 5.7% over the past year.
The items that seems odd is the growth in the FED foreign holdings of Agency Debt. $409 BILL is not peanuts. This is a potential back door liquidity facility where foreign countries can sell overpriced GSE debt back to the FED for Treasuries. The FED trades away liquid assets for illiquid ones while keeping the money supply constant. The Treasuries can later be sold for currency/cash. It also helps to keep the prices of treasuries up and in-demand. I wonder if some of the money indirect bond bidders have been forking over is coming from this swapping of Agency debt?
roadrunner
There's a lot of odd little news stories lately... the kind that get posted here but miss mainstream attention. Something's about to give.
Forgot what I was going to say, carry on
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It's very suprising that there's really no news about the money. Media talks about the dollar being lower and that's why gold is high and they talk about oil demand being low in the US and the USD price for oil is up because the dollar is down and about the demand for US treasuries (even if we are buying them ourselves) is still high but no one is leaning out and handicapping even the near term implications. I believe that there is a strong, orchestrated effort to not spook the herd with any dire predictions.
So, looking at the little US map posted here with the unemployment by county time line really should scare the hell out of everyone. And hey, it's only 8.6%...yeah, that looks real believable. Unfortunately, the map IS very believable and I didn't notice any change in the trend...DC area, insulated with all the govies, midwest...hey, they make food, the rest of the guys look like toast. It's kinda strange that everything has tanked in just one year. Meanwhile the stock market is above 10,000 and seemingly rising on our inproved production and low inflation...huh? From yesterday on unemployment trends
What no one wants to expose is that we are so ultra vulnerable right now. No one in the media even dares to prognosticate what this means but surely they have an idea but with the media in the tank you shouldn't be looking for anything but parrot talk. You better be thinkin' for yourself for the game is indeed on "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows". It would be so nice for the mainstream media to give some guidance and direction here kind of like "rules for modern survival" or something like that. They would have to say get rid of your debt, do not carry credit balances on your cards, stash cash, buy metal, leave the paper stuff alone including equities, stock up on guns and butter but none of that will get said...don't spook the herd, just keep the music playing like on the Titanic.
Meanwhile, back on the farm, China is receiving a bowing Big O and I bet we hear nothing of what the people of the middle earth tells him about the money. Oh yeah, don't ever forget, it's about the money.
"Look out kid, you're gonna get hit. God knows when, but they're doin' it again........"
mhammerman, let's not forget that the majority of folks want to "believe". They want to believe that their retirements will still be there when they need them. They want to believe that their government isn't a malicious tentacled beast, expropriating their assets away from them faster than they can sock any savings away.
The financial talking heads themselves have a vested interest in keeping the dream alive, er the fantasy alive.
If you point out the truth to anyone, you are either crazy, a hate monger, delusional, full of negativity or just plain pitiful. The American Public has had a psych job done on them, and they don't *want* anything to change. They voted for it, but they don't want what they were told that they wanted.
Next thing we know, they will be selling off pieces to China, or Saudi. Say hello to your new neighbors. I wouldn't put it past this bunch.
The reason that the work ethic made America great was because it is based in reality. For the past decades, we've been slipping into a fantasy economy, and the fantasy is ending - as all good fantasies must end - back in reality.
Let's spend our way out of recession.
I'm suspending the free market in order to save the free market.
The unions have negotiated their way out of a job with the highest pay and benefits on record, so let's reward them by keeping them on the job. Expensive cars, huh?
This has been an unfortunate man-caused tragedy. However, we will continue to closely monitor for potential terrorism activities those ordinary working folks who showed up at the tea parties and just returned from the military.
It looks like it's not going well.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Protecting the dollar? Not this trip, maybe next time..............Besides, I think a higher stock market is more important to the Dem's and their 2010 re-elections then a stronger dollar...............MJ
Forgot what I was going to say, carry on >>
Yep, the low dollar didn't help Republicans.
The Obama dollar has NOT reached the lows of the Bush dollar. In case you didn't know that, although I don't know how you couldn't.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
roadrunner
<< <i>
<< <i>Protecting the dollar? Not this trip, maybe next time..............Besides, I think a higher stock market is more important to the Dem's and their 2010 re-elections then a stronger dollar...............MJ
Forgot what I was going to say, carry on >>
Yep, the low dollar didn't help Republicans.
The Obama dollar has NOT reached the lows of the Bush dollar. In case you didn't know that, although I don't know how you couldn't. >>
And I thought it was the American dollar you putz.
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Thanks JoesMaName! I appreciate you deleting that post!
Mauritius buys 2 tons of gold from IMF
Gold in the Face of the Fiat Fallout
<< <i>Bearish Soros Stashes Cash in Gold, Ag, and Energy Names
Mauritius buys 2 tons of gold from IMF >>
If Soros truly thinks the economy is slipping back into recession, he's not going to be happy with the performance of anything on that list of investments, particularly energy and silver. It doesn't add up.