<< <i>All bubbles are bubbles for their own individual reasons. In the end, all bubbles are bubbles. There is no such thing as "this time its different."
Gold is not in a bubble at this time, although IMHO, it is most likely headed there. This is a great thing for those bullish on the metal. >>
If gold gets to $2,200, it will reach the level of the last bubble (1980) adjusted for inflation. So, today's $1,050 level is somewhat equivalent to $475-500 in 1980. I would make a safe bet that our country's financial situation is much worse now than 1980 in terms of debt and printed currency. I think gold still has a long run ahead of itself...it won't be linear like the stock market of recent months. Just like we are getting use to seeing the Dow near 10,000 we will be nervously comfortable with gold twice as high as it is now. But then there's those pesky central bankers and their immoral actions.
A good summary of all the recent events hinting that all is not right with physical vs. paper gold. I found it interesting that the LMBA paper gold trade turns over 15,000 tonnes of gold each week! It begs the question: how many different owners does each physical ounce have? The author suggests as few as 4 and up from there. I waded through the 30 pg link provided in the article on a study done on a the LMBA gold trade. But this shorter article sums up all of the high points rather well. The amount of paper gold that trades daily vs. actual physical supplies is quite amazing. Certainly the oil, stock, bond, and currency markets trade at much tinier percentages than paper gold. Is that any surprise that gold is alone in the outfield?
Fekete summarizes much of the above but adds an important point about those 22 karat coin bars that came from the 1933-34 gold confiscation. When these bars show up anywhere but in Fort Knox or are being offered in lieu of payment of good delivery London bars (24k 400 oz) then Houston......we have a problem.
I cite the case of Morgan Stanley, which was sued in 2005 for selling non-existent (Gold) precious metals. Morgan Stanley even had the audacity to charge storage fees.
Seriously though, someone who does that should go to prison. It's no different than a con man selling the same thing twice.
<< <i>The similarities between the Nasdaq chart in 1991 and Oil back around 10 years are very similar to how the gold chart looks today. Both of those looked like bubbles at the time having already advanced about 4X (ie just like gold). Look where they ultimately ended up. Some good charts to ponder.
That guy really likes the technicals, roadrunner. I can't say that I can argue with him, either.
But, here's another thought. The charts give you an idea of the possibilities, but I don't believe that the situations are identical.
I think that the situations absolutely must be considered before rhapsodizing over a chart or a trendline.
This situation is unprecedented in this country. Keep that in mind as we go forward. jmski.
p.s. - I feel like the Yorkie, telling the German Shepherd to be careful out there. >>
/
I had a "Harvest Party" last night at my house and the talk stayed away from politics and economy until the very end. I didn't bring up the subject(s) because I am so burnt out on it. We obviously wanted to have a good time and refrained, but it was inevitable.
One "tidbit" of info came from a well-to-do art collector who lives up the valley. She was called by her New York banker that the worse is yet to come and gave her some advise. She shared and of course we were all ears...E. F. Hutton-like. The advice this "banker" gave her was to: 1. cash out your 401k, take the hit and put it in 1st Bank (probably works at that bank), 2. get off the grid, 3. Don't pay off your mortgage but keep making payments, 4. don't sell your property and if you have more than one do what you can to keep them, 5. precious metals until the next currency comes along, 6. recent stock market surge is to get J6P (my term) back in and institutions out, 7. a depression IS still to come, 8. the dollar is trash....and not necessarily in this order.
Some interesting set of points and easier said than done.
"1. cash out your 401k, take the hit and put it in 1st Bank (probably works at that bank"
Seems odd..... what makes 1st Bank better or different from all the others out there? I can kind of see the rationale to cash in the 401k.... but to turn around and give the money (now greatly reduced in amount) back to an institution to take care of........?
If there's one bank to invest in, it's (IBN), a bank based in India which had no involvement in US mortgages and appears to be set to really do well here on forward. I wouldn't touch a US bank with someone else's checkbook.
That must have made for an interesting coc-tail party. It just sounds so radical to be talking like your art collector's advisor but yeah, what's to discount in any of that advice. There are many forces right now trying to get cash from j6p or anyone that has some to grab. There is very little cash money moving and most of it is stashed and a fair amount of the stash is already overseas or getting there soon but don't look for that on your in the tank network news channels. Cash is getting hard to find if you don't already have some or have a way to get some. If you can, stash some physical cash in some hideyhole where you can get your hands on it quickly.
The domestic stock market is for j6p right now, mainly his 401K and IRA, and there are drums from the jungle that seem to indicate that there is a market "correction" coming. I would take that to mean that the banks are gonna have to get right with their badness on the books and that will further doom any expansion or development money hence, no money for domestic businesses. So, if 20% are out of work and and we're into the Chinese for a good bit of our future earnings and we have a domestic health program that is going to take about 1/8 of or GDP to fund then I wouldn't be looking for domestic stocks to do much...how can they? But foreign stocks is a completely different thing, look for all that sloshing liquidity to find a home on foreign shores, as everyone knows, cash always seems to find a place to be...it doesn't stay still for too long.
401's, IRA's, etc., yeah, I just cashed out a little one and it felt good to have the cash albeit about 20% less than I thought I was going to get and I still have to pay taxes on the difference at the end of the year. So, what's j6p to do, he's screwed. His money is worth about 40% (10% penalty and 28% in taxes plus state taxes too) less in cash than it's showing on the books and he's afraid to take the leap of faith that he could do better with his money than the someone else that has his money. Then there is the thought that the gov may well find some way to get ahold of the whole thing and give him a retirement voucher for it and he's spooked...no way out but to cash out or sit and let the others have your savings.
Mortgage, yeah, why pay it off at 6%, it's almost like free money and you get a place to live...what's not to like. If you can get an extra property and you can comfortably handle it, then it's almost a no brainer to put those soon to be very weak buks into something physical that you can get now while your USD still has some value and before the foreigners suck it all up. Folks are always going to need a place to live.
PM, yeah. The next currency...it's probably still a bit off, we still have to pay witness to the physical destruction of the dollar and that might take a few years, then again, it might not.
I'm suprised that there was no discussion of the VAT at the party but that will come into the news soon, real soon. In Europe where they have been living with it for a while With the recent elections, they finally have come to the reality that the VAT only stiffles business growth and sucks off what little extra liquidity the populace may have. In essence, VAT means no growth in anything but socialized programs and govt. (the folks that get the VAT). Add that with the fact that 50% of the citizens in the US will pay no federa l income taxes this year and you see why they need the VAT. When this hits, it will be the signal that things have gone to a point where they will be bad for a good while...at least another 3 years or so. And when they pull the people off of the VAT, there will be screaming and yelling and carrying on but that's how it goes...the European headlines will be worth watching for a while because we are probably following in their trail and they are leading.
All in all, this is a window of opportunity right now to get right with yourself but that window is closing. Keep your passport up to date. Drive to that next vacation, take a picnic basket to the park, spend a couple of weeks near the ocean or in the mountains, look for some wholesome, inexpensive, social enjoyment of life options for yourself and those you live it with. Try and get really small and as far off the grid as possible. Every time you search google under your screen name, everytime you check in at the airport, every time you apply for a loan, everytime you go to the clinic, you expose yourself to profiling and you become a target for marketing or monitoring; these things are not going to enhance your freedom. This new situation can all be very good if you have positioned yourself correctly but for some it's gonna get really ugly.
It's all in how you prepare.
Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.
"Foreign buyers increased their holdings for a fourth consecutive month in August."
"international investors can buy U.S. debt more cheaply without worrying that speculation about interest rates will boost volatility and erode returns."
"The U.S. continues to provide one of the deepest and most liquid markets available for investing"
"China, which manages the yuan’s appreciation, will “intervene to make sure the dollar does not weaken” relative to its currency"
" Bill Gross, who runs the world’s biggest bond fund at Pimco, bought government-related debt last month and cut mortgage bond holdings to the lowest level since 2005. He said he was buying longer-maturity Treasuries because of deflation concerns. Gross boosted the $185.7 billion Total Return Fund’s investment in Treasuries"
While the author prefers a gold standard, let's not forget that most of the economic problems in the period from 1787-1913 were not with the physical metals, but with the bankers that lent out too much of their gold or created too much paper/credit not backed by gold. Gold is always honest. Bankers are not.
While the author prefers a gold standard, let's not forget that most of the economic problems in the period from 1787-1913 were not with the physical metals, but with the bankers that lent out too much of their gold or created too much paper/credit not backed by gold. Gold is always honest. Bankers are not.
roadrunner >>
Wow! I didn't know the Keynesian economics isn't really Keynsian but Foster and Catchings.
Oct 19: "A Remarkable Gathering: Soros and Roach and Geithner, Oh My".
I found this quote by Summers "It's crucial to avoid premature withdrawal of expansionary measures."
Geithner: "We will try to avoid the classic mistake of withdraw(ing) support too soon."
And this: Despite howls of protests from inflation hawks and Austrian economists, the administration is not planning to head for the "exits" anytime soon.
Who recently said that FDR didn't go far enough in the expansion of money?
After a public stock offering to raise capital to reduce its hedge, Barrick is issuing more debt to reduce its hedge further. What could be more bullish?
PC, while Barrick has stated that they are reducing their hedged position, we have no way of knowing if they are countering those hedges with yet more leveraged paper, with physical gold, or both. It's far cheaper and easier to go the papered-up route.
Sinclair wrote this today. It probably refers to Barrick and seems to explain why they needed another $1 BILL+ via dilution to cover those closed hedges. A good reason to only purchase fully unhedged miners. However with derivatives often kept hidden from view it's hard to know who has them. And being listed in the HUI does not mean a miner is fully unhedged.
Not much attention is being paid to the fact that they have sold their gold years into the future at prices well under $400. Their calculations on their sales price of the short of gold adds in the interest paid to short of physical bullion over the period of the short position into present time calculations as per their risk disclosure filings. Yes, if you sell physical you get paid interest, and if you buy physical on the cuff you pay interest in all the major cash markets. OTC derivative short of gold factors interest, yet to be earned, into the reported sales price going out in time. When they close the transaction before maturity, as is happening now, the debit does not include unearned interest and therefore charges at the real lower sales price. That is why the majors are borrowing their billions. This will limit their gain versus the gold price as it rises.
What I found interesting in the article is that 1 trader placed $1.7 million in puts against Bear betting that it's stock would fall nearly 50% within a week (from $65 to $30). It was a "lunatic" bet based on the history of investment banking that a company could fall that far that fast. The very next day Bear started tanking hard and within a week it's share price essentially evaporated. The "lunatic" trade ended up being worth > $250 MILL. To date, no one has been found accountable. Rumor has it they have since hired O.J. to find the culprit.
US rig count (drilling rig activity) is down from about 2000 active rigs this time last year to about 1000 now. Domestic drilling activity has dropped off 50%. Hummmmm...oil too cheap to drill for or do our leaders think we don't need any more domestic oil and we can just use wind farms BWAAAHAAAHAAA. Most of the decline in activity has been in Texas, down from 975 rigs a year ago to 394.
FCOJ is up considerably and at harvest time too...hummmmm, wonder who is buying all the OJ up.
Commodities are fun to watch right now, with all this repositioning and stuff. Might be some important things to extract from the data, some food for thought as it were. Metal is just an after thought. Reminds me of that Eddie Murphy movie.
We have plenty of oil. And even more nat gas, and even more coal.
The reason we dont pursue alt energy to greater extent is that it would cause irreversible chaos in the Mid-East. The cost of oil is blood money. If the world stops using oil, how will Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, et al, generate income to keep their respective people happy? The cost you pay at the pump is for national security.
I like to read gold articles from new guys from time to time as you never know when you'll find a hidden gem. This author I had never heard of before. And after reading the article I realized he was from Prechter's EW group who just happen to be profoundly bearish on gold for the longer term. In fact the EWers have been wrong on gold since about 2002 when they called it to continue down to $200. Obviously they've been wrong every year, 7 in a row and counting. This guy must have just joined the editorial staff. There are so many holes in his "argument" that gold is in a bubble that it's disturbing. The author determines this from comparing only gold, S&P, and USDollar data from the last year. Some analysis. What happened to the period from 2001-2008? The author can find no fundamental reason for gold to be in a "bull" market, though he casually mentions a weakening dollar as a potential instigator but not a fundamental. Huh? These make up his litmus test of which at least one must be present for a non-bubble bull.
A surge in demand that outpaces supply A falling stock market, which raises the "safe haven" appeal of precious metals. A real (not imagined) threat of inflation An increase in value relative to major foreign currencies Right now, the Gold market can NOT check off a single one of these items.
I think if the author actually investigated things beyond the past 8 months that he would find that at least 2 of these conditions are already met or gold would simply not be rising. The other 2 (stock market and inflation) really are minor players after confidence in the currency and govt. And if knew about the 1970's if would be apparent that stocks simply stagnated (cycling up and down in as much as 30-50% swings) from 1966 to 1982 with the DOW hitting the 1000 mark 6 different times, meanwhile those stocks lost 70% of their value due to the declining dollar over that period.....similar to what has happened from 2001-2009. Sorry Nico, but March-October in 2009 for stocks doesn't a decade make. He also failed to notice that both stocks and gold were rising from 2001-2007......oops that's an inconvenint truth that he left out. Both have been rising since March, and gold alone since November. How does he know that stocks aren't still in a bubble blow-off from 2007?
Any unenlightened J6P's reading this article will not be joining the PM train any time soon. All they will understand is that gold is in a 1 year bubble where stocks have outperformed PM's.
As if on cue, Peter Degraaf picks up on yesterday's topic of Elliot Wavers being 180 degree out of gold for the past 7 years. More importantly though this article has excellent information on current gold trends. His HUI/Gold (gold stocks to gold) chart shows a very strong trend on the miners intact since November as they attempt to recover the average ratio achieved in prior years. One might be able to more easily dismiss gold as near a peak but the miner ratio tells a different story. The recycling chart also gives a good clue as to how the gold scrap Party4$Cash theme has been going for the past year. Not exactly what I had expected. The CPI and chart from the St. Louis FED tells a slightly different story than what most are used to hearing. Gold vs. Long Bond chart also shows the breakout that just occured. And lastly, at the bottom of the page is the list of the 38 juniors that will make up the new gold miner ETF GDXJ. That should be available by year end. Very convenient that the author linked the websites for each of them for easier reference if one wants to look deeper.
Degraaf's track record over the past decade has been pretty darn good...probably a lot better than Nico's. Definitely up near the top of the internet PM analysts though he has expertise in stocks, bonds, and currencies as well. I believe one of his best calls was the October crash of 1987 as well as the 2008 shakeout.
As if on cue, Peter Degraaf picks up on yesterday's topic of Elliot Wavers being 180 degree out of gold for the past 7 years. More importantly though this article has excellent information on current gold trends. His HUI/Gold (gold stocks to gold) chart shows a very strong trend on the miners intact since November as they attempt to recover the average ratio achieved in prior years. One might be able to more easily dismiss gold as near a peak but the miner ratio tells a different story. The recycling chart also gives a good clue as to how the gold scrap Party4$Cash theme has been going for the past year. Not exactly what I had expected. The CPI and chart from the St. Louis FED tells a slightly different story than what most are used to hearing. Gold vs. Long Bond chart also shows the breakout that just occured. And lastly, at the bottom of the page is the list of the 38 juniors that will make up the new gold miner ETF GDXJ. That should be available by year end. Very convenient that the author linked the websites for each of them for easier reference if one wants to look deeper.
Degraaf's track record over the past decade has been pretty darn good...probably a lot better than Nico's. Definitely up near the top of the internet PM analysts though he has expertise in stocks, bonds, and currencies as well.
roadrunner >>
Pete's good record goes back further than a decade. I used to set up next to his table at the MSNS spring and fall shows. He used to tell me gold was going to go way up and would show me all his charts and analysis. I had no understanding of the technical terms he was using. This was in the early to mid '90s, so he was really early but completely correct. The guy really knows his stuff and has been at it for a long time.
Besides The FED's uptrending chart of CPI above in the Degraaf link, these St. Louis Fed tables don't show a decreasing money supply. In September they put the pedal back down again. The October numbers aren't complete yet but according to Ned Schmidt $300 BILL was added to the money supply. The pedal has been on and off during this year, but the overall trend for the past year is much more on-time than off-time.
Reggie analyzes the derivative's positions of the 5 "too big to fail" banks. The next big shoe to eventually drop are their combined derivative's risk in interest rates and forex. An untimely dose of excessive volatility in these sectors and things could go poof. GS has taken some hits on their trading in these areas but their credit swaps have bailed them out. JPM has been the most successful to date in IR and Forex derivatives. Between the 5 banks they carry approx 97% of all the derivative's risk in these areas.
This link from 321gold shows the FED lending from $3-$20 BILL most every day for the past year. The past 2 months are over $300 BILL total. Does anyone know what this actually represents and why there are no listings of loans being repaid?
Does anyone know what this actually represents and why there are no listings of loans being repaid
If you were borrowing money at less than 1%, and could use it to buy bonds in Australia, at 3.25%, would you be in a hurry to pay it back? So the question might actually be, "is the Fed subsidizing banks profits?"
How many investors have figured out that, several days before the Fed/Gov. needs to auction off a huge amount of debt the Gold and Oil markets go down and the dollar goes up? Just as soon as the auctions are committed for the dollar drops and oil and Gold go back up. Gold is up $19 today and oil is up $2.80.
NOW, we all know there is no manipulation in these markets, but WOW what a coincidence!
How many investors have figured out that, several days before the Fed/Gov. needs to auction off a huge amount of debt the Gold and Oil markets go down and the dollar goes up? Just as soon as the auctions are committed for the dollar drops and oil and Gold go back up. Gold is up $19 today and oil is up $2.80. NOW, we all know there is no manipulation in these markets, but WOW what a coincidence!
Yesterday I went back through the last few months of the gold chart to see how close the correlation was to bond weeks and taking down gold. At best I'd say it was 50-50. Yes, there were 2 good whacks over the past few months of bond auctions with this week being the 2nd one. But the other bond weeks since early summer were rather either slight hits, sideways action, or even with gold rising. This week the bearishness on the dollar got so extreme I think the PTB saw a good opportunity to "assist" gold in a nice down draft. Everything was lined up right with the short futures heavily stacked. All it was gonna take was a quick gust of wind to get it all rolling. Note that the major gold miners were forecasting the trend for nearly 2 weeks as they peaked back around the 14th with gold. However gold hung in there for nearly 2 weeks moving in a diagonal pattern. The S&P hung in pretty well too. But the gold and silver stocks started leaking oil 2 weeks before bond week. It didn't take much to push gold and silver over the cliff on Monday. But I have no doubt they were given plenty of assistance by the PPT & Posse.
Jim Willie was in rare form today with his weekly article. I found the last paragraph over the top but probably not without some truth behind it. Wasn't Madoff's associate just found floating in his pool? Heart attack was the posted cause. Messing with the Chinese, Russians, or the mob can land you in hot water.
Watch the battle for disclosure of the TARP funds and the USFed balance sheet. This is actually a legal crowbar to reveal syndicate activity, which in all likelihood includes money laundering of narcotic funds. Word came a year ago to my desk that disbursal of TARP funds involved significant foreign extortion to avoid legal prosecution of bond fraud, replete with murder threats of Wall Street executives.
<< <i>Wasn't Madoff's associate just found floating in his pool? Heart attack was the posted cause. Messing with the Chinese, Russians, or the mob can land you in hot water.
19th century CPI and dollar data point to generally deflationary trends except when wars broke out and the banks started printing excess money (1812, Civil War, WW1, WW2). From 1800-1929 there is no change in the dollar value or in estimated CPI. But I did not know that the general trend from 1800-1860 was basically deflationary. And if not for the Civil War may have stayed that way for decades longer.
I never knew the Rail Roads got to pay back loans after the Civil War in 50% depreciated green backs even though the loans were orig denominated in gold. No wonder from that point on the RR's were for the abolishment of the gold standard. A battle of fiat vs. gold has waged stronger ever since. And it supports the paragraph above where wars have been the normal impetus for getting away from gold.
I went back through the last few months of the gold chart to see how close the correlation was to bond weeks and taking down gold. At best I'd say it was 50-50.
A 50-50 correlation is what you would want to be untraceable and to maintain plausible deniability. If you have inside knowledge and advance notice, it doesn't matter whether the incidence is one time out of two, or one time out of a hundred - with advance notice, you win when you want to win, and throw a bone to some of the players when you want to keep them on the hook.
You would need to track money flows and subsequent performance to begin to know what's going on, wouldn't you?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Here's some info from Fla, Courtesy of Rich Swier:
Here is an analysis of the impact of stimulus dollars in Florida:
According to Recovery.gov as of October 30, 2009 the state of Florida spent $6,811,579,599.00 and saved 29,322.78 jobs.
Using my trusty calculator that means Governor Crist and our Repbulican legislature spent $232,296.51 per job saved. I am not sure if Governor Crist will accuse me of "calculator abuse" or not but that seems like a lot of money to save a job. It appears Florida, from the Recovery.gov data, did not create any jobs. However, we do know Florida has lost 360,000 jobs and had an unemployment rate of 11% in September or 1.2% higher than the nation.
When you look at the details you find that .06% (1,648.96) jobs were saved by issuing contracts or loans. While 94.4% (27,673.82) were saved by issuing grants. Interestingly 25 whole jobs were saved by loans in the amount of $13,484,722.00. Wow, those loans saved 25 jobs at a cost of $539,388.88 per job. I wonder who holds those 25 saved jobs?
I clicked on the map of Florida in my area of Sarasota County and found that there were 31 recipients awarded stimulus money who created/saved 39.43 jobs. These 31 recipients were given $59,974,607.00 to deliver meals. That's $1,521,039.99 per job saved.
Are you seeing the madness of this kind of spending?
mrearlygold, there was an article posted last week that mentioned that many of the "supposed" jobs saved or created were falsified. They stated an instance were a company that received money from the gov said they created 4,000+ new jobs, actual number 1,000. Another place, a daycare said that they created/saved 120+ jobs, in actuality none were saved or created as the money went to give current employees a raise.
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Here's a rather lengthy article written by Jake Hornberger.
Here's an excerpt ( then click on the link to read the whole article )
In 1974 – 40 years after Roosevelt confiscated people’s gold and made it illegal for Americans to own gold – and three decades after the “emergency” of the Great Depression had ended, Congress made it legal for Americans to once again own gold. By this time, of course, the notion of gold as money had been wiped from the consciousness of most Americans. After decades of being taught economics in public schools and state-supported colleges, their understanding, at best, was that America once had a paper-money standard that was somehow linked to gold.
Over the past 30 years many Americans have rediscovered the value of owning gold, even if it isn’t being used as official money in society. They discovered what people throughout history discovered – that placing their savings in gold, rather than bills and notes, is more likely to protect the value of their savings, especially if the government intends to continue printing the necessary paper money to fund its ever-growing operations.
Today, there is increasing awareness of what the Federal Reserve has done to destroy what was once one of the soundest monetary systems in the world, one based on gold and silver coins. There are even calls, especially among young people, to abolish the Fed and restore sound money to the nation. More and more people are recognizing that a system of sound money is a necessary prerequisite to a free society.
Yet, there is now the specter of another monetary horror, one in which President Obama decides to mimic the actions of the president he so admires, Franklin Roosevelt. As Obama embarks on one of the biggest federal spending sprees in U.S. history, continued monetary debasement has become a certainty. The risk, of course, is that Obama will resort to the same method employed by Roosevelt and the Soviet communists. To replenish the coffers of the federal government in order to fund his ever-growing socialistic, interventionist, and imperial programs, Obama may well decide to re-confiscate people’s gold in another massive assault on the freedom, private property, and economic well-being of the American people.
"Obama may well decide to re-confiscate people’s gold..."
In thinking about this topic, it seems that just as before, most folks won't turn in their gold. The place where it gets you is that after the declaration you can't buy or sell either and that's the threat, that you won't be able to get anything for it because you can't trade it so you had better just turn it in before the cut off date and get what you can for it. Of course it is doubtful than any of our neighbors to the north or south would confiscate gold or have any restrictions so it may just be a matter of buying a couple of tanks of gas.
The problem is that if gold goes on a tear and people shun the stock game and the CD bidness then there are fewer 1099's and capital gains and a lot less cash in the visible system. The best endgame scenario for the gov is to abandon paper money entirely and go digital and that way they could keep track of everything that moves then put in the VAT and just rake their vig off of the top. With only 50% on deck for paying '09 ta xes, none of this is gonna last too long without some pretty serious changes.
<< <i>More and more people are recognizing that a system of sound money is a necessary prerequisite to a free society. >>
Amen to that. The only way to stop the Wall Street/Bankers corruption and ever-expanding government is to cut off their funds by shifting back to the gold / silver standard. I think it's inevitable that it happens, the only question is when. Bring on the Depression!
Even in the last confiscation, individuals were allowed to retain 5 (?) ounces of gold, so mere possession of a few ounces is not dangerous in such an environment unless someone discovers your entire stash. I would presume that you could still legally trade the 5 ounces you owned.
Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Gold jumped to a record after India’s central bank bought 200 metric tons of the metal from the International Monetary Fund at an average of $1,045 per ounce, heightening speculation that there may be more official purchases.
Gold futures for December delivery rose to a record $1,088.50 an ounce at about 2:22 p.m. in after-hours trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange’s Comex unit. Earlier, the most-active contract settled at $1,084.90, up $30.90, or 2.9 percent. It was the biggest gain since March 19.
Comments
<< <i>All bubbles are bubbles for their own individual reasons. In the end, all bubbles are bubbles. There is no such thing as "this time its different."
Gold is not in a bubble at this time, although IMHO, it is most likely headed there. This is a great thing for those bullish on the metal. >>
If gold gets to $2,200, it will reach the level of the last bubble (1980) adjusted for inflation. So, today's $1,050 level is somewhat equivalent to $475-500 in 1980. I would make a safe bet that our country's financial situation is much worse now than 1980 in terms of debt and printed currency. I think gold still has a long run ahead of itself...it won't be linear like the stock market of recent months. Just like we are getting use to seeing the Dow near 10,000 we will be nervously comfortable with gold twice as high as it is now. But then there's those pesky central bankers and their immoral actions.
R95
A good summary of all the recent events hinting that all is not right with physical vs. paper gold. I found it interesting that the LMBA paper gold trade turns over 15,000 tonnes of gold each week! It begs the question: how many different owners does each physical ounce have? The author suggests as few as 4 and up from there. I waded through the 30 pg link provided in the article on a study done on a the LMBA gold trade. But this shorter article sums up all of the high points rather well. The amount of paper gold that trades daily vs. actual physical supplies is quite amazing. Certainly the oil, stock, bond, and currency markets trade at much tinier percentages than paper gold. Is that any surprise that gold is alone in the outfield?
Dr. Fekete adds his 2 cents
Fekete summarizes much of the above but adds an important point about those 22 karat coin bars that came from the 1933-34 gold confiscation. When these bars show up anywhere but in Fort Knox or are being offered in lieu of payment of good delivery London bars (24k 400 oz) then Houston......we have a problem.
roadrunner
I cite the case of Morgan Stanley, which was sued in 2005 for selling non-existent (Gold) precious metals. Morgan Stanley even had the audacity to charge storage fees.
Seriously though, someone who does that should go to prison. It's no different than a con man selling the same thing twice.
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The only one who got sent to prison was Martha Stewart. Its so corrupt now its like a banana republic, and soon will be.
<< <i>The similarities between the Nasdaq chart in 1991 and Oil back around 10 years are very similar to how the gold chart looks today. Both of those looked like bubbles at the time having already advanced about 4X (ie just like gold). Look where they ultimately ended up. Some good charts to ponder.
That guy really likes the technicals, roadrunner. I can't say that I can argue with him, either.
But, here's another thought. The charts give you an idea of the possibilities, but I don't believe that the situations are identical.
I think that the situations absolutely must be considered before rhapsodizing over a chart or a trendline.
This situation is unprecedented in this country. Keep that in mind as we go forward. jmski.
p.s. - I feel like the Yorkie, telling the German Shepherd to be careful out there.
/
I had a "Harvest Party" last night at my house and the talk stayed away from politics and economy until the very end. I didn't bring up the subject(s) because I am so burnt out on it. We obviously wanted to have a good time and refrained, but it was inevitable.
One "tidbit" of info came from a well-to-do art collector who lives up the valley. She was called by her New York banker that the worse is yet to come and gave her some advise. She shared and of course we were all ears...E. F. Hutton-like. The advice this "banker" gave her was to: 1. cash out your 401k, take the hit and put it in 1st Bank (probably works at that bank), 2. get off the grid, 3. Don't pay off your mortgage but keep making payments, 4. don't sell your property and if you have more than one do what you can to keep them, 5. precious metals until the next currency comes along, 6. recent stock market surge is to get J6P (my term) back in and institutions out, 7. a depression IS still to come, 8. the dollar is trash....and not necessarily in this order.
Some interesting set of points and easier said than done.
R95
Seems odd..... what makes 1st Bank better or different from all the others out there? I can kind of see the rationale to cash in the 401k.... but to turn around and give the money (now greatly reduced in amount) back to an institution to take care of........?
The domestic stock market is for j6p right now, mainly his 401K and IRA, and there are drums from the jungle that seem to indicate that there is a market "correction" coming. I would take that to mean that the banks are gonna have to get right with their badness on the books and that will further doom any expansion or development money hence, no money for domestic businesses. So, if 20% are out of work and and we're into the Chinese for a good bit of our future earnings and we have a domestic health program that is going to take about 1/8 of or GDP to fund then I wouldn't be looking for domestic stocks to do much...how can they? But foreign stocks is a completely different thing, look for all that sloshing liquidity to find a home on foreign shores, as everyone knows, cash always seems to find a place to be...it doesn't stay still for too long.
401's, IRA's, etc., yeah, I just cashed out a little one and it felt good to have the cash albeit about 20% less than I thought I was going to get and I still have to pay taxes on the difference at the end of the year. So, what's j6p to do, he's screwed. His money is worth about 40% (10% penalty and 28% in taxes plus state taxes too) less in cash than it's showing on the books and he's afraid to take the leap of faith that he could do better with his money than the someone else that has his money. Then there is the thought that the gov may well find some way to get ahold of the whole thing and give him a retirement voucher for it and he's spooked...no way out but to cash out or sit and let the others have your savings.
Mortgage, yeah, why pay it off at 6%, it's almost like free money and you get a place to live...what's not to like. If you can get an extra property and you can comfortably handle it, then it's almost a no brainer to put those soon to be very weak buks into something physical that you can get now while your USD still has some value and before the foreigners suck it all up. Folks are always going to need a place to live.
PM, yeah. The next currency...it's probably still a bit off, we still have to pay witness to the physical destruction of the dollar and that might take a few years, then again, it might not.
I'm suprised that there was no discussion of the VAT at the party but that will come into the news soon, real soon. In Europe where they have been living with it for a while With the recent elections, they finally have come to the reality that the VAT only stiffles business growth and sucks off what little extra liquidity the populace may have. In essence, VAT means no growth in anything but socialized programs and govt. (the folks that get the VAT). Add that with the fact that 50% of the citizens in the US will pay no federa l income taxes this year and you see why they need the VAT. When this hits, it will be the signal that things have gone to a point where they will be bad for a good while...at least another 3 years or so. And when they pull the people off of the VAT, there will be screaming and yelling and carrying on but that's how it goes...the European headlines will be worth watching for a while because we are probably following in their trail and they are leading.
All in all, this is a window of opportunity right now to get right with yourself but that window is closing. Keep your passport up to date. Drive to that next vacation, take a picnic basket to the park, spend a couple of weeks near the ocean or in the mountains, look for some wholesome, inexpensive, social enjoyment of life options for yourself and those you live it with. Try and get really small and as far off the grid as possible. Every time you search google under your screen name, everytime you check in at the airport, every time you apply for a loan, everytime you go to the clinic, you expose yourself to profiling and you become a target for marketing or monitoring; these things are not going to enhance your freedom. This new situation can all be very good if you have positioned yourself correctly but for some it's gonna get really ugly.
It's all in how you prepare.
Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.
<< <i>"2. get off the grid, "??? same as radar? >>
Power Grid
"Foreign buyers increased their holdings for a fourth consecutive month in August."
"international investors can buy U.S. debt more cheaply without worrying that speculation about interest rates will boost volatility and erode returns."
"The U.S. continues to provide one of the deepest and most liquid markets available for investing"
"China, which manages the yuan’s appreciation, will “intervene to make sure the dollar does not weaken” relative to its currency"
" Bill Gross, who runs the world’s biggest bond fund at Pimco, bought government-related debt last month and cut mortgage bond holdings to the lowest level since 2005. He said he was buying longer-maturity Treasuries because of deflation concerns. Gross boosted the $185.7 billion Total Return Fund’s investment in Treasuries"
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I voted for Noah.
Real interest rates from 1785-2009...from Webster to Keynes
While the author prefers a gold standard, let's not forget that most of the economic problems in the period from 1787-1913 were not with the physical metals, but with the bankers that lent out too much of their gold or created too much paper/credit not backed by gold. Gold is always honest. Bankers are not.
roadrunner
<< <i>Who was the better economist, Noah Webster or John Maynard Keynes?
I voted for Noah.
Real interest rates from 1785-2009...from Webster to Keynes
While the author prefers a gold standard, let's not forget that most of the economic problems in the period from 1787-1913 were not with the physical metals, but with the bankers that lent out too much of their gold or created too much paper/credit not backed by gold. Gold is always honest. Bankers are not.
roadrunner >>
Wow! I didn't know the Keynesian economics isn't really Keynsian but Foster and Catchings.
Oct 19: "A Remarkable Gathering: Soros and Roach and Geithner, Oh My".
I found this quote by Summers "It's crucial to avoid premature withdrawal of expansionary measures."
Geithner: "We will try to avoid the classic mistake of withdraw(ing) support too soon."
And this: Despite howls of protests from inflation hawks and Austrian economists, the administration is not planning to head for the "exits" anytime soon.
Who recently said that FDR didn't go far enough in the expansion of money?
R95
Here's one I found:
Barrick Issues Debt
After a public stock offering to raise capital to reduce its hedge, Barrick is issuing more debt to reduce its hedge further. What could be more bullish?
i stopped by to see the mint, too, but it was too late in the day.
Sinclair wrote this today. It probably refers to Barrick and seems to explain why they needed another $1 BILL+ via dilution to cover those closed hedges. A good reason to only purchase fully unhedged miners. However with derivatives often kept hidden from view it's hard to know who has them. And being listed in the HUI does not mean a miner is fully unhedged.
Not much attention is being paid to the fact that they have sold their gold years into the future at prices well under $400. Their calculations on their sales price of the short of gold adds in the interest paid to short of physical bullion over the period of the short position into present time calculations as per their risk disclosure filings. Yes, if you sell physical you get paid interest, and if you buy physical on the cuff you pay interest in all the major cash markets. OTC derivative short of gold factors interest, yet to be earned, into the reported sales price going out in time. When they close the transaction before maturity, as is happening now, the debit does not include unearned interest and therefore charges at the real lower sales price. That is why the majors are borrowing their billions. This will limit their gain versus the gold price as it rises.
How the big boyz killed Bear Stearns
What I found interesting in the article is that 1 trader placed $1.7 million in puts against Bear betting that it's stock would fall nearly 50% within a week (from $65 to $30). It was a "lunatic" bet based on the history of investment banking that a company could fall that far that fast. The very next day Bear started tanking hard and within a week it's share price essentially evaporated. The "lunatic" trade ended up being worth > $250 MILL. To date, no one has been found accountable. Rumor has it they have since hired O.J. to find the culprit.
roadrunner
<< <i>spotted at Federal Reserve @ Philly last week and had a chuckle.
i stopped by to see the mint, too, but it was too late in the day.
Now that is hilarious. Flying money,
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FCOJ is up considerably and at harvest time too...hummmmm, wonder who is buying all the OJ up.
Commodities are fun to watch right now, with all this repositioning and stuff. Might be some important things to extract from the data, some food for thought as it were. Metal is just an after thought. Reminds me of that Eddie Murphy movie.
That is all.
Here it is. Second story down
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The reason we dont pursue alt energy to greater extent is that it would cause irreversible chaos in the Mid-East. The cost of oil is blood money. If the world stops using oil, how will Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, et al, generate income to keep their respective people happy? The cost you pay at the pump is for national security.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
I like to read gold articles from new guys from time to time as you never know when you'll find a hidden gem. This author I had never heard of before. And after reading the article I realized he was from Prechter's EW group who just happen to be profoundly bearish on gold for the longer term. In fact the EWers have been wrong on gold since about 2002 when they called it to continue down to $200. Obviously they've been wrong every year, 7 in a row and counting. This guy must have just joined the editorial staff. There are so many holes in his "argument" that gold is in a bubble that it's disturbing. The author determines this from comparing only gold, S&P, and USDollar data from the last year. Some analysis. What happened to the period from 2001-2008? The author can find no fundamental reason for gold to be in a "bull" market, though he casually mentions a weakening dollar as a potential instigator but not a fundamental. Huh? These make up his litmus test of which at least one must be present for a non-bubble bull.
A surge in demand that outpaces supply
A falling stock market, which raises the "safe haven" appeal of precious metals.
A real (not imagined) threat of inflation
An increase in value relative to major foreign currencies
Right now, the Gold market can NOT check off a single one of these items.
I think if the author actually investigated things beyond the past 8 months that he would find that at least 2 of these conditions are already met or gold would simply not be rising. The other 2 (stock market and inflation) really are minor players after confidence in the currency and govt. And if knew about the 1970's if would be apparent that stocks simply stagnated (cycling up and down in as much as 30-50% swings) from 1966 to 1982 with the DOW hitting the 1000 mark 6 different times, meanwhile those stocks lost 70% of their value due to the declining dollar over that period.....similar to what has happened from 2001-2009. Sorry Nico, but March-October in 2009 for stocks doesn't a decade make. He also failed to notice that both stocks and gold were rising from 2001-2007......oops that's an inconvenint truth that he left out. Both have been rising since March, and gold alone since November. How does he know that stocks aren't still in a bubble blow-off from 2007?
Any unenlightened J6P's reading this article will not be joining the PM train any time soon. All they will understand is that gold is in a 1 year bubble where stocks have outperformed PM's.
roadrunner
As if on cue, Peter Degraaf picks up on yesterday's topic of Elliot Wavers being 180 degree out of gold for the past 7 years. More importantly though this article has excellent information on current gold trends. His HUI/Gold (gold stocks to gold) chart shows a very strong trend on the miners intact since November as they attempt to recover the average ratio achieved in prior years. One might be able to more easily dismiss gold as near a peak but the miner ratio tells a different story. The recycling chart also gives a good clue as to how the gold scrap Party4$Cash theme has been going for the past year. Not exactly what I had expected. The CPI and chart from the St. Louis FED tells a slightly different story than what most are used to hearing. Gold vs. Long Bond chart also shows the breakout that just occured. And lastly, at the bottom of the page is the list of the 38 juniors that will make up the new gold miner ETF GDXJ. That should be available by year end. Very convenient that the author linked the websites for each of them for easier reference if one wants to look deeper.
Degraaf's track record over the past decade has been pretty darn good...probably a lot better than Nico's. Definitely up near the top of the internet PM analysts though he has expertise in stocks, bonds, and currencies as well. I believe one of his best calls was the October crash of 1987 as well as the 2008 shakeout.
roadrunner
<< <i>Degraaf update on gold
As if on cue, Peter Degraaf picks up on yesterday's topic of Elliot Wavers being 180 degree out of gold for the past 7 years. More importantly though this article has excellent information on current gold trends. His HUI/Gold (gold stocks to gold) chart shows a very strong trend on the miners intact since November as they attempt to recover the average ratio achieved in prior years. One might be able to more easily dismiss gold as near a peak but the miner ratio tells a different story. The recycling chart also gives a good clue as to how the gold scrap Party4$Cash theme has been going for the past year. Not exactly what I had expected. The CPI and chart from the St. Louis FED tells a slightly different story than what most are used to hearing. Gold vs. Long Bond chart also shows the breakout that just occured. And lastly, at the bottom of the page is the list of the 38 juniors that will make up the new gold miner ETF GDXJ. That should be available by year end. Very convenient that the author linked the websites for each of them for easier reference if one wants to look deeper.
Degraaf's track record over the past decade has been pretty darn good...probably a lot better than Nico's. Definitely up near the top of the internet PM analysts though he has expertise in stocks, bonds, and currencies as well.
roadrunner >>
Pete's good record goes back further than a decade. I used to set up next to his table at the MSNS spring and fall shows. He used to tell me gold was going to go way up and would show me all his charts and analysis. I had no understanding of the technical terms he was using. This was in the early to mid '90s, so he was really early but completely correct. The guy really knows his stuff and has been at it for a long time.
The Bank of Japan will probably forecast this week that deflation will extend into fiscal 2011, an indication that borrowing costs are likely to stay near zero.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Gold’s New Ally
<< <i>Hummmmm.........interesting who would have thunk.. >>
Wow... this is when the REAL money starts pouring in to gold. When that happens - and eventually the movement will pick up steam - watch out above!
Besides The FED's uptrending chart of CPI above in the Degraaf link, these St. Louis Fed tables don't show a decreasing money supply. In September they put the pedal back down again. The October numbers aren't complete yet but according to Ned Schmidt $300 BILL was added to the money supply. The pedal has been on and off during this year, but the overall trend for the past year is much more on-time than off-time.
Reggie analyzes the derivative's positions of the 5 "too big to fail" banks. The next big shoe to eventually drop are their combined derivative's risk in interest rates and forex. An untimely dose of excessive volatility in these sectors and things could go poof. GS has taken some hits on their trading in these areas but their credit swaps have bailed them out. JPM has been the most successful to date in IR and Forex derivatives. Between the 5 banks they carry approx 97% of all the derivative's risk in these areas.
Reggie on the banks
This link from 321gold shows the FED lending from $3-$20 BILL most every day for the past year. The past 2 months are over $300 BILL total. Does anyone know what this actually represents and why there are no listings of loans being repaid?
Daily FED lending
roadrunner
If you were borrowing money at less than 1%, and could use it to buy bonds in Australia, at 3.25%, would you be in a hurry to pay it back? So the question might actually be, "is the Fed subsidizing banks profits?"
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
NOW, we all know there is no manipulation in these markets, but WOW what a coincidence!
Yesterday I went back through the last few months of the gold chart to see how close the correlation was to bond weeks and taking down gold. At best I'd say it was 50-50. Yes, there were 2 good whacks over the past few months of bond auctions with this week being the 2nd one. But the other bond weeks since early summer were rather either slight hits, sideways action, or even with gold rising. This week the bearishness on the dollar got so extreme I think the PTB saw a good opportunity to "assist" gold in a nice down draft. Everything was lined up right with the short futures heavily stacked. All it was gonna take was a quick gust of wind to get it all rolling. Note that the major gold miners were forecasting the trend for nearly 2 weeks as they peaked back around the 14th with gold. However gold hung in there for nearly 2 weeks moving in a diagonal pattern. The S&P hung in pretty well too. But the gold and silver stocks started leaking oil 2 weeks before bond week. It didn't take much to push gold and silver over the cliff on Monday. But I have no doubt they were given plenty of assistance by the PPT & Posse.
Jim Willie was in rare form today with his weekly article. I found the last paragraph over the top but probably not without some truth behind it. Wasn't Madoff's associate just found floating in his pool? Heart attack was the posted cause. Messing with the Chinese, Russians, or the mob can land you in hot water.
Watch the battle for disclosure of the TARP funds and the USFed balance sheet. This is actually a legal crowbar to reveal syndicate activity, which in all likelihood includes money laundering of narcotic funds. Word came a year ago to my desk that disbursal of TARP funds involved significant foreign extortion to avoid legal prosecution of bond fraud, replete with murder threats of Wall Street executives.
roadrunner
<< <i>Wasn't Madoff's associate just found floating in his pool? Heart attack was the posted cause. Messing with the Chinese, Russians, or the mob can land you in hot water.
roadrunner >>
Article
19th century CPI and dollar data point to generally deflationary trends except when wars broke out and the banks started printing excess money (1812, Civil War, WW1, WW2). From 1800-1929 there is no change in the dollar value or in estimated CPI. But I did not know that the general trend from 1800-1860 was basically deflationary. And if not for the Civil War may have stayed that way for decades longer.
Some interesting 19th century gold facts and Supreme Court gold rulings
I never knew the Rail Roads got to pay back loans after the Civil War in 50% depreciated green backs even though the loans were orig denominated in gold. No wonder from that point on the RR's were for the abolishment of the gold standard. A battle of fiat vs. gold has waged stronger ever since. And it supports the paragraph above where wars have been the normal impetus for getting away from gold.
roadrunner
A 50-50 correlation is what you would want to be untraceable and to maintain plausible deniability. If you have inside knowledge and advance notice, it doesn't matter whether the incidence is one time out of two, or one time out of a hundred - with advance notice, you win when you want to win, and throw a bone to some of the players when you want to keep them on the hook.
You would need to track money flows and subsequent performance to begin to know what's going on, wouldn't you?
I knew it would happen.
I knew it would happen.
Here is an analysis of the impact of stimulus dollars in Florida:
According to Recovery.gov as of October 30, 2009 the state of Florida spent $6,811,579,599.00 and saved 29,322.78 jobs.
Using my trusty calculator that means Governor Crist and our Repbulican legislature spent $232,296.51 per job saved. I am not sure if Governor Crist will accuse me of "calculator abuse" or not but that seems like a lot of money to save a job. It appears Florida, from the Recovery.gov data, did not create any jobs. However, we do know Florida has lost 360,000 jobs and had an unemployment rate of 11% in September or 1.2% higher than the nation.
When you look at the details you find that .06% (1,648.96) jobs were saved by issuing contracts or loans. While 94.4% (27,673.82) were saved by issuing grants. Interestingly 25 whole jobs were saved by loans in the amount of $13,484,722.00. Wow, those loans saved 25 jobs at a cost of $539,388.88 per job. I wonder who holds those 25 saved jobs?
I clicked on the map of Florida in my area of Sarasota County and found that there were 31 recipients awarded stimulus money who created/saved 39.43 jobs. These 31 recipients were given $59,974,607.00 to deliver meals. That's $1,521,039.99 per job saved.
Are you seeing the madness of this kind of spending?
RECOVERY.GOV
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Here's a rather lengthy article written by Jake Hornberger.
Here's an excerpt ( then click on the link to read the whole article )
In 1974 – 40 years after Roosevelt confiscated people’s gold and made it illegal for Americans to own gold – and three decades after the “emergency” of the Great Depression had ended, Congress made it legal for Americans to once again own gold. By this time, of course, the notion of gold as money had been wiped from the consciousness of most Americans. After decades of being taught economics in public schools and state-supported colleges, their understanding, at best, was that America once had a paper-money standard that was somehow linked to gold.
Over the past 30 years many Americans have rediscovered the value of owning gold, even if it isn’t being used as official money in society. They discovered what people throughout history discovered – that placing their savings in gold, rather than bills and notes, is more likely to protect the value of their savings, especially if the government intends to continue printing the necessary paper money to fund its ever-growing operations.
Today, there is increasing awareness of what the Federal Reserve has done to destroy what was once one of the soundest monetary systems in the world, one based on gold and silver coins. There are even calls, especially among young people, to abolish the Fed and restore sound money to the nation. More and more people are recognizing that a system of sound money is a necessary prerequisite to a free society.
Yet, there is now the specter of another monetary horror, one in which President Obama decides to mimic the actions of the president he so admires, Franklin Roosevelt. As Obama embarks on one of the biggest federal spending sprees in U.S. history, continued monetary debasement has become a certainty. The risk, of course, is that Obama will resort to the same method employed by Roosevelt and the Soviet communists. To replenish the coffers of the federal government in order to fund his ever-growing socialistic, interventionist, and imperial programs, Obama may well decide to re-confiscate people’s gold in another massive assault on the freedom, private property, and economic well-being of the American people.
Gold and Freedom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
In thinking about this topic, it seems that just as before, most folks won't turn in their gold. The place where it gets you is that after the declaration you can't buy or sell either and that's the threat, that you won't be able to get anything for it because you can't trade it so you had better just turn it in before the cut off date and get what you can for it. Of course it is doubtful than any of our neighbors to the north or south would confiscate gold or have any restrictions so it may just be a matter of buying a couple of tanks of gas.
The problem is that if gold goes on a tear and people shun the stock game and the CD bidness then there are fewer 1099's and capital gains and a lot less cash in the visible system. The best endgame scenario for the gov is to abandon paper money entirely and go digital and that way they could keep track of everything that moves then put in the VAT and just rake their vig off of the top. With only 50% on deck for paying '09 ta xes, none of this is gonna last too long without some pretty serious changes.
"GOLD what Gold? I ain't got no dang Gold"
<< <i>More and more people are recognizing that a system of sound money is a necessary prerequisite to a free society. >>
Amen to that. The only way to stop the Wall Street/Bankers corruption and ever-expanding government is to cut off their funds by shifting back to the gold / silver standard. I think it's inevitable that it
happens, the only question is when. Bring on the Depression!
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You would certainly think so.
clouisejewelers had the best idea for the confiscation situation...Put a bezel around it and call it jewelry.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>"I would presume that you could still legally trade the 5 ounces you owned."
You would certainly think so.
clouisejewelers had the best idea for the confiscation situation...Put a bezel around it and call it jewelry. >>
You have a good memory my friend...I said that a long time ago! It's still a good idea, no?
Sadly, I lost my gold along with all my guns in a tragic boating accident
The U.K. government said Tuesday it will put £31.2 billion ($51.2 billion) in new taxpayer money into the two banks
Swiss banking giant UBS AB reported disappointing third-quarter figures
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Nov. 3 (Bloomberg) -- Gold jumped to a record after India’s central bank bought 200 metric tons of the metal from the International Monetary Fund at an average of $1,045 per ounce, heightening speculation that there may be more official purchases.
Gold futures for December delivery rose to a record $1,088.50 an ounce at about 2:22 p.m. in after-hours trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange’s Comex unit. Earlier, the most-active contract settled at $1,084.90, up $30.90, or 2.9 percent. It was the biggest gain since March 19.