"If the Chinese government and the Chinese public go on a gold and silver investment binge, and Americans sit idly by like bozos as dumb as a box of rocks and continue to ignore gold and silver, all we can tell you is that you had better start learning Mandarin and teaching it to your children as well. China will recover very quickly from this disaster if it avoids revolution, as will the other major gold holder, India, and you will be in depression for two decades, if you do not end up living in FEMA detention/reeducation/death camps first. If you want to survive the coming disaster, turn off the boob tube, put the beer down and run to your phone to order some gold and silver. This will turn up the heat on the Fed as rising gold and silver prices will show them for the frauds they are, and add impetus to the movement to audit the Fed and end its reign of terror forever.
"And we might add the reminder that Fort Knox is freaking empty and your dollars are 100% fiat, so don't sit there watching NFL games. Get off the couch, order some gold and silver, and start making up for the loss of our national gold!!!"
Bob Chapman always tells it like it is, with no sugar-coating.
.....GOD
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Gold may have succumbed to profit taking and has slipped to $992.50/oz. It constantly rebounded to challenge $1000/oz yesterday and if this happens again, gold is likely to regain its momentum and challenge the March 2008 record highs of just over $1,030/oz. If the profit taking continues, fresh investors will possibly wait in the wings to gauge the best entry point.
However, the dollar is continuing to weaken and although gold's movements in the short term may be dictated by currency movements, the news that Barrick, the world's largest gold producer, is to close the majority of its hedge book is another bullish factor. It signals that Barrick are confident that gold prices are going higher and thus the need to drastically reduce their hedge book.
This and continuing concerns regarding the outlook for the dollar should keep investor sentiment towards gold very positive. There continues to be the possibility of a short squeeze whereby large institutions with sizeable short positions are forced to buy back their short positions (in the same way that Barrick had to close their hedge book) causing a sharp increase in the price.
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Now lets see who purchase them. If the FED/banks were involved in purchasing their own debt it may not be so steller. Didn't they purchase 47% of the 7 year bonds earlier in the year? I'm sure they can distort a lot of thing with the trillions being put into play though various sources.
<< <i>I guess the world still thinks the U.S. is a great place to invest all their money! Sounds like all is well again and we have nothing to fear! >>
Actually I think fear is why the auctions are doing so well. If you think there will be further economic problems, then US Treasuries make the perfect investment.
BRIEF-Barrick announces exercise of over-allotment option by underwriters Thursday September 10, 2009 18:23:47 EDT Sept 10 (Reuters) - Barrick Gold Corp: * Announces exercise of over-allotment option by underwriters * Says underwriting syndicate exercised in full over-allotment option to buy additional 14.21 million shares * Says underwriters excercised option at $36.95 per share * Says common shares outstanding are expected to increase to approximately 982.7 million ((Bangalore Equities Newsroom; +91 80 4135 5800; within U.S. +1 646 223 8780
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Actually I think fear is why the auctions are doing so well. If you think there will be further economic problems, then US Treasuries make the perfect investment.
Chris Martensen published this last month. He contends that the FED is monetizing debt by effectively buying back agency debt so that CB's can go out and buy treasuries with the freshly created money. The author's chart of the FED's $2.8 TRILL custody account is rather interesting as well. Maybe the Treasuries make the perfect investment for those who are dumping less desireable debt (Fannie, Freddie, etc.).
Dr. Fekete posted an interesting analysis on the Barrick hedging today. 4 pages, but still worth a read. Barrick has been one of the kingpins in keeping the gold price suppressed over the past 10 yrs. The only question is whether they did it because they were stupid or because they are the cartel's gold miner and those were the marching orders. The end result is the same though. Fekete suggests that Barrick would essentially need to sell every ounce it mines over the next year or more to cover these hedges. Therefore Sinclair's idea that Sumotomo might be a supplier. No matter how you slice it 250+ tons of gold is a lot of gold to have to find when market supplies are tight as they are. There's always the IMF.
norseman88 i'll give you one better which stocks are we talking about the ones in their rating now or then as they change as needed gold plays alone stocks are changed as needed some thing to think about JMHT
<< <i>On Sept 10, 2001 the DOW closed at 9605.51. Today it closed at 9605.41. Thats just friggin eerie!! >>
So someone investing in the Dow 8 years ago has broken even, Hmmmm I think the bulls have some explaining to do. >>
The bull ended in 2000. We've been in a bear market since then, supported by "stimulus" packages. Still waiting for the final collapse into a Depression to clear things up for everyone.
And CNN reports the Coast Guard fired 10 shots at a suspicious boat this morning, which explains why the DOW was off.
Looks like we really pissed off the Chinese! For the Chinese government, the tire dispute threatens an economic relationship crucial to China's economic growth. There was speculation before the decision that new tariffs could produce public pressure on Beijing to retaliate, potentially leading to a trade war.Good for the gold price bad for the dollar!
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So someone investing in the Dow 8 years ago has broken even, Hmmmm I think the bulls have some explaining to do.
Not exactly. If you factor in the drop in the dollar index from 120 to 77 (-46%) in those 8 years you lost due to the drop in value on the dollar. The Dow's last high at 14,000 was actually "lower" than the 12,000 high recorded back in 1999/2000 due to the drop in the dollar but the news media feeds the positive spin. What did Keynes say?....Not one person in a million can see the insidious confiscation of wealth that inflation causes.
<< <i>On Sept 10, 2001 the DOW closed at 9605.51. Today it closed at 9605.41. Thats just friggin eerie!! >>
So someone investing in the Dow 8 years ago has broken even, Hmmmm I think the bulls have some explaining to do. >>
My stock account is up over 400% during that time. Markets are what you make of them.
In all fairness though, gold has been a great performer over the last 30 years and real estate has been outstanding for 5 years. Every asset class has its moment. Make the most of that time while it still has its mojo.
Legendary investor and billionaire Warren Buffet helped to fuel the gold price by sending a warning signal to policymakers regarding the ultra-loose nature of monetary policy. monetary policy. Buffet warned that the enormous budget deficit, deficit, slated to reach 13% of GDP in 2009, and debt debt levels relative to GDP should not be dismissed. He stated that the United States is in 'uncharted territory' from a fiscal perspective. Buffet went on to postulate that while the effects of loose fiscal and monetary policy monetary policy could remain subdued for a lengthy period of time, 'their threat may be as ominous as that posed by the financial crisis itself.'
Buffet went as far to say that the massive build-up of America's debt debt and deficits deficits could 'cause the purchasing power purchasing power of currency to melt.' The gold price rose $4.86 to $943.02 in today's trading session as the dollar declined against most global currencies. While the dollar has dropped in recent months versus currencies such as the yen and the euro, euro, the fact remains that these currencies have structural problems of their own. Japan suffers from a consistently underperforming economy and a deteriorating demographic picture. Europe has to deal with a systemic banking crisis potentially worse than that in the U.S. as well as the difficulties that come with managing individual nations under a common currency.
The gold price stands to benefit from the issues that afflict the U.S. dollar, the euro, euro, and the yen, along with the rest of the world's currencies. While the correlation between the gold price and the U.S. dollar/euro /euro cross and other broad-based indices such as the Dollar Index (DXY) remain fairly high, a flight from other fiat currencies has the possibility of driving fund flows to the gold price and gold-related investments. The best monthly performance for the gold price over the last 35 years has occurred in September, which has shown a mean percentage gain of 2%. The question of timing Buffet's warning on the state of America's balance sheet is unknown, however, if seasonality hold true to form, the gold price and gold mining equities could be poised for a strong move over the balance of the year
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My stock account is up over 400% during that time. Markets are what you make of them.
That works for professionals and seasoned traders/investors. But J6P and Joe401K tend to be holders. And those guys make up the vast majority of investors. Their bottom line over the past 8 yrs was not 400%, not even break even, but probably much less. And factoring in dollar devaluation over that period just cuts another near 50% from their "real" returns. What they should be doing is charting their returns vs. gold (or even "UDN" which are the currencies making up the dollar index) over the past 8 yrs. to see things in more real terms.
I never really considered that the close parallels in gold and silver moves were anything but "normal" since it's been going on for years. They have traded nearly lock step on many days, if not most days. I wonder if anyone else agrees with the author and thinks that the mirror charts these present is indicative of managed markets, both up and down. One certainly couldn't place Plat and Pall over gold and silver (or even each other) and get much of a match.
You are absolutely right about that. In fact, they may have little choice. For example, the 401K at my work place will FORBID you to make any change to the investment options, once you move some money out or in. So if you transferred money to one of the funds, you would not be able to remove if for 60 days. A person could get wiped out with rules like this. So, as you can imagine, many are just staying out of stock funds, etc, since they do not have the freedom to manage their money. It would be tough to watch your money if it was stuck in a fund that was diving, and you could not do anything about it.
For example, the 401K at my work place will FORBID you to make any change to the investment options, once you move some money out or in. So if you transferred money to one of the funds, you would not be able to remove if for 60 days.
So it is obvious that the "rules" were never intended to benefit 401K owners. Not ever.
And then, there are the penalties for early withdrawal (which I did last year). They penalize you for even thinking that you can manage your own assets without their involvement.
The government treats people in one of two ways:
1) Either the government regards people as children who can't figure out how to invest their own money for retirement - i.e. they are smart enough to earn a living and to save for retirement, but not smart enough to know when to take it out of a retirement fund.
or,
2) The government is in the pocket of the financial services industry, who limit choices and limit flexibility to funnel retirement funds into the more lucrative investment vehicles for the funds.
Whose money is it, anyway?
My conclusion became - it's only your money if you can get to it any time you need it. Otherwise, it's just a theoretical asset that you might be able to claim someday, or you might not. But theorectically, you will...maybe...someday...maybe...as long as your fund doesn't go under, or if it does go under - that it's insured, or even if it is insured, that they will pay the full amount, or maybe even part of it...
That's alot of trust in a government that seems to betray alot of trust in so many different ways...
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Manipulated as you know what. Free market forces and the trillion dollar printings will change that. In fact, they've already changed it. The seeds of self-destruction of the corrupt have been planted and are growing. It's a matter of time.
I view it unrealistic to expect someone to build a 401K nest egg and over 10, 20, or even 40 years never need the money. Usually, you do need it and withdraw. That's when the 10% penalty on kicks in. So, I see them as tax traps only. Its like Cash for Clunkers. Sounds great, but in execution it's awful.
Just put your own already-taxed money away, and don't let the gubers near it.
<< <i>The government treats people in one of two ways:
1) Either the government regards people as children who can't figure out how to invest their own money for retirement - i.e. they are smart enough to earn a living and to save for retirement, but not smart enough to know when to take it out of a retirement fund.
or,
2) The government is in the pocket of the financial services industry, who limit choices and limit flexibility to funnel retirement funds into the more lucrative investment vehicles for the funds. >>
I don't want to turn this partisan or political, but it is the democrats who seem to regard the average person as helpless and in need of government to control and/or provide everything in their lives. The Republicans believe more in the free market system, which can and will work if it can be kept honest... not an easy task, especially in the face of corruption on both sides of the aisle.
A bill before Congress would prohibit ownership of handguns by those who have not obtained firearm licenses.
It has started.
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009.
Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
It is registered
You are fingerprinted
You supply a current Driver's License
You supply your Social Security #
You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.
An August 2009 version of the Blair Holt e-mail combined it with the Handgun Safety and Registration Act e-mail that falsely claims a bill before Congress would require all handgun owners to list their firearms on their federal income tax returns.
Aw, guys...it's really not that complicated. If you are running an asset management enterprise then you need assets to manage. If you can get bunches of sheeple to give you their money to manage then you can use those assets to generate income for your enterprise through investing that money to make you money. If you have diminished assets for your management enterprise then you can't do as much good for yourself.
I recently had an experience with a retirement account from a second job I've had for 19 years. I finally retired from that job as a community college professor and decided to see how hard it would be to get my money from the retirement fund (well known, big time fund) so I called them to see what was involved. The first thing that happened was I got a 20 minute lecture on why I shouldn't get my money followed with the tax story about how they were gonna keep 20% of it off the top for the Ir s. Then I called another number associated with the fund and then things became clearer. Firstly, there was the fund and then there was the fund managers, a 3rd party that actually keeps the monies from the fund. So you have to fill out this form from the sponsor agency and then get a form from your previous employeer and then forward all of these papers to the third party where they set about verifying all the paper work. Well, I did receive my money, against their objections, just a few short weeks after the whole thing started but it was like pulling teeth. Then I thought...hummmmmm, how is it that I am supporting two separate agencies to manage my money and no wonder they don't want to let it go.
They made it very clear that they wanted to keep my money as it was their money until I got it and they could play with it how they pleased. Also, the gov knew about my money and they knew that I got it. Then I realized that it's a huge scam...they take your money to feed their enterprise and it's basically linked to the stock market so if the market goes down...tough, if it goes up then your account appreciates but in the meantime, they rake their fees, they invest your money, it's all good. What is that quote-Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money...same deal.
So, your 401 and IRA...tax magnets that enrich the managers, it has nothing to do with you, just keep sending your money in. It used to be that the employer match was a good incentive but since that is absent or diminshed then they just become highly regulated savings account that may or may not pay you a return, depending on how the stock market does. Oh yea, look for management fees to increase and don't forget that your take home is going to be 1/5 smaller than you thought. So all that money you had, first take 20% out and plan on generating a heavy paper trail if you look to get your pocket around it.
Get you money, put it where you can invest and save as you see fit and cut these blood sucker quasi govt agents loose. Hey, it's your money, not theirs, why should they make money off of you when you could be making your own money off of your own money? Take the hickey, take the money, it's gonna get a lot more taxible and it's going to get a lot more visible. And then...there's always the possiblity that the gov might like to issue a retirement voucher for your funds or do some other boogie woogie with your money like tax you a little more or require that you maintain a certain level of savings to fund your retirement so they can reduce your social securit benefit since you have some saved and there are others that don't...there are many things that can happen between now and when you want your money and with all the interest by others in your money, maybe it's a good time to put your money where you can keep track of it. JMHO
A bill before Congress would prohibit ownership of handguns by those who have not obtained firearm licenses.
It has started.
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009.
Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
It is registered
You are fingerprinted
You supply a current Driver's License
You supply your Social Security #
You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.
An August 2009 version of the Blair Holt e-mail combined it with the Handgun Safety and Registration Act e-mail that falsely claims a bill before Congress would require all handgun owners to list their firearms on their federal income tax returns. >>
“Turning a PM thread into a gun advocacy thread is sure way to get it all poofed. IMO.”
EagleEye, I am sure you are correct!
We here in Texas do not believe anyone should own a gun.
We do believe that you should have a big pile of rocks by the door so that if you catch someone in your house stealing your COINS you can throw rocks at them to scare them away !!!!
I am absolutely sure that all of the gangsters will list their guns on their 2009 tax returns, ya think?
Why a meltdown could happen again A year after Lehman Brothers collapsed and the financial system nearly went with it, we've heard much talk but seen no real reform. Since then, what have President Barack Obama and Congress done to prevent them from doing it to us again?
Pretty much what Obama did when he spoke to Wall Street earlier this week. Talk.
"They really haven't done anything that could prevent another meltdown," says Joseph Mason, a financial-sector expert who used to work for one of the main national banking regulators, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency or OCC.
A year after the demise of Lehman, there are no new rules in place to:
· Control the vast "shadow banking industry" of mortgage originators, insurers and investment banks that caused the crisis. · Limit excessive risk taking by big Wall Street banks. · Rein in the short-term incentives in lavish pay and bonus packages that tempted executives to take excessive risks. · Beef up regulatory agencies like the Securities and Exchange Commission so they can do a better job policing Wall Street. The key takeaway: There's nothing in place to stop another financial meltdown.
Citigroup (C, news, msgs), Morgan Stanley (MS, news, msgs) and other banks are churning out financial instruments similar to the ones that helped cause the crisis. They're producing securities backed by home mortgages and commercial loans, often repackaging their old mortgage securities as new products.
]The 2nd more important point is that the Treasury is trying to force this money into the Big Banks. DO NOT LET IT HAPPEN. If you withdraw your money, put it in a local credit union or small bank in your community. DO NOT REWARD THE WHORING TARP BANKS. We need to make them fail for the good of the country.
Comments
Bank Of America Asks Armless Man For Thumbprint, Then Denies To Cash His Check
"If the Chinese government and the Chinese public go on a gold and silver investment binge, and Americans sit idly by like bozos as dumb as a box of rocks and continue to ignore gold and silver, all we can tell you is that you had better start learning Mandarin and teaching it to your children as well. China will recover very quickly from this disaster if it avoids revolution, as will the other major gold holder, India, and you will be in depression for two decades, if you do not end up living in FEMA detention/reeducation/death camps first. If you want to survive the coming disaster, turn off the boob tube, put the beer down and run to your phone to order some gold and silver. This will turn up the heat on the Fed as rising gold and silver prices will show them for the frauds they are, and add impetus to the movement to audit the Fed and end its reign of terror forever.
"And we might add the reminder that Fort Knox is freaking empty and your dollars are 100% fiat, so don't sit there watching NFL games. Get off the couch, order some gold and silver, and start making up for the loss of our national gold!!!"
Bob Chapman always tells it like it is, with no sugar-coating.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
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China Raises the Money-Printing Alarm
Gold Rally Signals Move Away From Currencies, Greenspan Says
However, the dollar is continuing to weaken and although gold's movements in the short term may be dictated by currency movements, the news that Barrick, the world's largest gold producer, is to close the majority of its hedge book is another bullish factor. It signals that Barrick are confident that gold prices are going higher and thus the need to drastically reduce their hedge book.
This and continuing concerns regarding the outlook for the dollar should keep investor sentiment towards gold very positive. There continues to be the possibility of a short squeeze whereby large institutions with sizeable short positions are forced to buy back their short positions (in the same way that Barrick had to close their hedge book) causing a sharp increase in the price.
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Dear CIGAs,
Here is a thought to consider:
Sumotomo yesterday proudly announced it is hedging its gold production here and now.
Barrick yesterday proudly announced it is covering all its hedges here and now.
It sounds like a buyer and seller found each other for some part of the Barrick short of gold position.
Jim Sinclair’s Commentary
R95
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
30-year Bond Auction Results: Yield 4.23% (4.289% expected); Bid/Cover 2.92x (6-auction avg 2.36x); Indirect Bidders 46.5% (6-auction avg 43.4%)
They cant get enough US Treasuries.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
<< <i>I guess the world still thinks the U.S. is a great place to invest all their money! Sounds like all is well again and we have nothing to fear! >>
Actually I think fear is why the auctions are doing so well. If you think there will be further economic problems, then US Treasuries make the perfect investment.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Chinese Banks Offering Bullion Video
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>Chinese Banks Offering Bullion?
Chinese Banks Offering Bullion Video >>
Probably counterfeit
<< <i>
<< <i>Chinese Banks Offering Bullion?
Chinese Banks Offering Bullion Video >>
Probably counterfeit
That's hillarious. Perhaps you can apply for Tom Geitners position.
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Chinese Banks Offering Bullion?
Chinese Banks Offering Bullion Video >>
Probably counterfeit
That's hillarious. Perhaps you can apply for Tom Geitners position. >>
Thursday September 10, 2009 18:23:47 EDT
Sept 10 (Reuters) - Barrick Gold Corp: * Announces exercise of over-allotment option by underwriters * Says underwriting syndicate exercised in full over-allotment option to buy additional 14.21 million shares * Says underwriters excercised option at $36.95 per share * Says common shares outstanding are expected to increase to approximately 982.7 million ((Bangalore Equities Newsroom; +91 80 4135 5800; within U.S. +1 646 223 8780
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Chris Martensen published this last month. He contends that the FED is monetizing debt by effectively buying back agency debt so that CB's can go out and buy treasuries with the freshly created money. The author's chart of the FED's $2.8 TRILL custody account is rather interesting as well. Maybe the Treasuries make the perfect investment for those who are dumping less desireable debt (Fannie, Freddie, etc.).
Fed shell game monetizing the debt?
Dr. Fekete posted an interesting analysis on the Barrick hedging today. 4 pages, but still worth a read. Barrick has been one of the kingpins in keeping the gold price suppressed over the past 10 yrs. The only question is whether they did it because they were stupid or because they are the cartel's gold miner and those were the marching orders. The end result is the same though. Fekete suggests that Barrick would essentially need to sell every ounce it mines over the next year or more to cover these hedges. Therefore Sinclair's idea that Sumotomo might be a supplier. No matter how you slice it 250+ tons of gold is a lot of gold to have to find when market supplies are tight as they are. There's always the IMF.
Has Barrick been Barricked?
roadrunner
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>On Sept 10, 2001 the DOW closed at 9605.51. Today it closed at 9605.41. Thats just friggin eerie!! >>
So someone investing in the Dow 8 years ago has broken even, Hmmmm I think the bulls have some explaining to do.
i'll give you one better which stocks are we talking about the ones in their rating now or then
as they change as needed
gold plays alone stocks are changed as needed
some thing to think about
JMHT
<< <i>
<< <i>On Sept 10, 2001 the DOW closed at 9605.51. Today it closed at 9605.41. Thats just friggin eerie!! >>
So someone investing in the Dow 8 years ago has broken even, Hmmmm I think the bulls have some explaining to do. >>
The bull ended in 2000. We've been in a bear market since then, supported by "stimulus" packages. Still waiting for the final collapse into a Depression
to clear things up for everyone.
And CNN reports the Coast Guard fired 10 shots at a suspicious boat this morning, which explains why the DOW was off.
Free Trial
R95
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
Not exactly. If you factor in the drop in the dollar index from 120 to 77 (-46%) in those 8 years you lost due to the drop in value on the dollar. The Dow's last high at 14,000 was actually "lower" than the 12,000 high recorded back in 1999/2000 due to the drop in the dollar but the news media feeds the positive spin. What did Keynes say?....Not one person in a million can see the insidious confiscation of wealth that inflation causes.
roadrunner
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
<< <i>
<< <i>On Sept 10, 2001 the DOW closed at 9605.51. Today it closed at 9605.41. Thats just friggin eerie!! >>
So someone investing in the Dow 8 years ago has broken even, Hmmmm I think the bulls have some explaining to do. >>
My stock account is up over 400% during that time.
In all fairness though, gold has been a great performer over the last 30 years and real estate has been outstanding for 5 years. Every asset class has its moment. Make the most of that time while it still has its mojo.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Buffet went as far to say that the massive build-up of America's debt debt and deficits deficits could 'cause the purchasing power purchasing power of currency to melt.' The gold price rose $4.86 to $943.02 in today's trading session as the dollar declined against most global currencies. While the dollar has dropped in recent months versus currencies such as the yen and the euro, euro, the fact remains that these currencies have structural problems of their own. Japan suffers from a consistently underperforming economy and a deteriorating demographic picture. Europe has to deal with a systemic banking crisis potentially worse than that in the U.S. as well as the difficulties that come with managing individual nations under a common currency.
The gold price stands to benefit from the issues that afflict the U.S. dollar, the euro, euro, and the yen, along with the rest of the world's currencies. While the correlation between the gold price and the U.S. dollar/euro /euro cross and other broad-based indices such as the Dollar Index (DXY) remain fairly high, a flight from other fiat currencies has the possibility of driving fund flows to the gold price and gold-related investments. The best monthly performance for the gold price over the last 35 years has occurred in September, which has shown a mean percentage gain of 2%. The question of timing Buffet's warning on the state of America's balance sheet is unknown, however, if seasonality hold true to form, the gold price and gold mining equities could be poised for a strong move over the balance of the year
(x2,Meltdown),cajun,Swampboy,SeaEagleCoins,InYHWHWeTrust, bstat1020,Spooly,timrutnat,oilstates200, vpr, guitarwes,
mariner67, and Mikes coins
That works for professionals and seasoned traders/investors. But J6P and Joe401K tend to be holders. And those guys make up the vast majority of investors. Their bottom line over the past 8 yrs was not 400%, not even break even, but probably much less. And factoring in dollar devaluation over that period just cuts another near 50% from their "real" returns. What they should be doing is charting their returns vs. gold (or even "UDN" which are the currencies making up the dollar index) over the past 8 yrs. to see things in more real terms.
Mirrors in gold and silver price
I never really considered that the close parallels in gold and silver moves were anything but "normal" since it's been going on for years. They have traded nearly lock step on many days, if not most days. I wonder if anyone else agrees with the author and thinks that the mirror charts these present is indicative of managed markets, both up and down. One certainly couldn't place Plat and Pall over gold and silver (or even each other) and get much of a match.
roadrunner
You are absolutely right about that. In fact, they may have little choice. For example, the 401K at my work place will FORBID you to make any change to the investment options, once you move some money out or in. So if you transferred money to one of the funds, you would not be able to remove if for 60 days. A person could get wiped out with rules like this. So, as you can imagine, many are just staying out of stock funds, etc, since they do not have the freedom to manage their money. It would be tough to watch your money if it was stuck in a fund that was diving, and you could not do anything about it.
So it is obvious that the "rules" were never intended to benefit 401K owners. Not ever.
And then, there are the penalties for early withdrawal (which I did last year). They penalize you for even thinking that you can manage your own assets without their involvement.
The government treats people in one of two ways:
1) Either the government regards people as children who can't figure out how to invest their own money for retirement - i.e. they are smart enough to earn a living and to save for retirement, but not smart enough to know when to take it out of a retirement fund.
or,
2) The government is in the pocket of the financial services industry, who limit choices and limit flexibility to funnel retirement funds into the more lucrative investment vehicles for the funds.
Whose money is it, anyway?
My conclusion became - it's only your money if you can get to it any time you need it. Otherwise, it's just a theoretical asset that you might be able to claim someday, or you might not. But theorectically, you will...maybe...someday...maybe...as long as your fund doesn't go under, or if it does go under - that it's insured, or even if it is insured, that they will pay the full amount, or maybe even part of it...
That's alot of trust in a government that seems to betray alot of trust in so many different ways...
I knew it would happen.
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you do need it and withdraw. That's when the 10% penalty on kicks in. So, I see them as tax traps only. Its like
Cash for Clunkers. Sounds great, but in execution it's awful.
Just put your own already-taxed money away, and don't let the gubers near it.
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<< <i>The government treats people in one of two ways:
1) Either the government regards people as children who can't figure out how to invest their own money for retirement - i.e. they are smart enough to earn a living and to save for retirement, but not smart enough to know when to take it out of a retirement fund.
or,
2) The government is in the pocket of the financial services industry, who limit choices and limit flexibility to funnel retirement funds into the more lucrative investment vehicles for the funds. >>
I don't want to turn this partisan or political, but it is the democrats who seem to regard the average person as helpless and in need of government to control and/or provide everything in their lives. The Republicans believe more in the free market system, which can and will work if it can be kept honest... not an easy task, especially in the face of corruption on both sides of the aisle.
Blair Holt Bill
A bill before Congress would prohibit ownership of handguns by those who have not obtained firearm licenses.
It has started.
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009.
Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
It is registered
You are fingerprinted
You supply a current Driver's License
You supply your Social Security #
You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.
An August 2009 version of the Blair Holt e-mail combined it with the Handgun Safety and Registration Act e-mail that falsely claims a bill before Congress would require all handgun owners to list their firearms on their federal income tax returns.
I recently had an experience with a retirement account from a second job I've had for 19 years. I finally retired from that job as a community college professor and decided to see how hard it would be to get my money from the retirement fund (well known, big time fund) so I called them to see what was involved. The first thing that happened was I got a 20 minute lecture on why I shouldn't get my money followed with the tax story about how they were gonna keep 20% of it off the top for the Ir s. Then I called another number associated with the fund and then things became clearer. Firstly, there was the fund and then there was the fund managers, a 3rd party that actually keeps the monies from the fund. So you have to fill out this form from the sponsor agency and then get a form from your previous employeer and then forward all of these papers to the third party where they set about verifying all the paper work. Well, I did receive my money, against their objections, just a few short weeks after the whole thing started but it was like pulling teeth. Then I thought...hummmmmm, how is it that I am supporting two separate agencies to manage my money and no wonder they don't want to let it go.
They made it very clear that they wanted to keep my money as it was their money until I got it and they could play with it how they pleased. Also, the gov knew about my money and they knew that I got it. Then I realized that it's a huge scam...they take your money to feed their enterprise and it's basically linked to the stock market so if the market goes down...tough, if it goes up then your account appreciates but in the meantime, they rake their fees, they invest your money, it's all good. What is that quote-Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money...same deal.
So, your 401 and IRA...tax magnets that enrich the managers, it has nothing to do with you, just keep sending your money in. It used to be that the employer match was a good incentive but since that is absent or diminshed then they just become highly regulated savings account that may or may not pay you a return, depending on how the stock market does. Oh yea, look for management fees to increase and don't forget that your take home is going to be 1/5 smaller than you thought. So all that money you had, first take 20% out and plan on generating a heavy paper trail if you look to get your pocket around it.
Get you money, put it where you can invest and save as you see fit and cut these blood sucker quasi govt agents loose. Hey, it's your money, not theirs, why should they make money off of you when you could be making your own money off of your own money? Take the hickey, take the money, it's gonna get a lot more taxible and it's going to get a lot more visible. And then...there's always the possiblity that the gov might like to issue a retirement voucher for your funds or do some other boogie woogie with your money like tax you a little more or require that you maintain a certain level of savings to fund your retirement so they can reduce your social securit benefit since you have some saved and there are others that don't...there are many things that can happen between now and when you want your money and with all the interest by others in your money, maybe it's a good time to put your money where you can keep track of it. JMHO
<< <i>
<< <i>The government treats people in one of two ways:
>>
Canon fodder or a source of revenue. Period .
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
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Comrade wolf359 are your papers in order?
Please come this way for questioning!
<< <i>The Socialists want your GUNS! Give em up.
Blair Holt Bill
A bill before Congress would prohibit ownership of handguns by those who have not obtained firearm licenses.
It has started.
Very Important for you to be aware of a new bill HR 45 introduced into the House. This is the Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sale Act of 2009.
We just learned yesterday about this on the Peter Boyles radio program.
Even gun shop owners didn't know about this because it is flying under the radar.
To find out about this - go to any government website and type in HR 45 or Google HR 45 Blair Holt Firearm Licensing & Record of Sales Act of 2009.
Basically this would make it illegal to own a firearm - any rifle with a clip or ANY pistol unless:
It is registered
You are fingerprinted
You supply a current Driver's License
You supply your Social Security #
You will submit to a physical & mental evaluation at any time of their choosing
Each update - change or ownership through private or public sale must be reported and costs $25 - Failure to do so you automatically lose the right to own a firearm and are subject up to a year in jail.
There is a child provision clause on page 16 section 305 stating a child-access provision. Gun must be locked and inaccessible to any child under 18.
They would have the right to come and inspect that you are storing your gun safely away from accessibility to children and fine is punishable for up to 5 yrs. in prison.
An August 2009 version of the Blair Holt e-mail combined it with the Handgun Safety and Registration Act e-mail that falsely claims a bill before Congress would require all handgun owners to list their firearms on their federal income tax returns. >>
"From my cold, dead hands."
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
It looks like the gold market has decided today which way it want to go.
EagleEye,
I am sure you are correct!
We here in Texas do not believe anyone should own a gun.
We do believe that you should have a big pile of rocks by the door so that if you catch someone in your house stealing your COINS you can throw rocks at them to scare them away !!!!
I am absolutely sure that all of the gangsters will list their guns on their 2009 tax returns, ya think?
I knew it would happen.
MSN Money
9/16/2009
By Michael Brush
Why a meltdown could happen again
A year after Lehman Brothers collapsed and the financial system nearly went with it, we've heard much talk but seen no real reform.
Since then, what have President Barack Obama and Congress done to prevent them from doing it to us again?
Pretty much what Obama did when he spoke to Wall Street earlier this week. Talk.
"They really haven't done anything that could prevent another meltdown," says Joseph Mason, a financial-sector expert who used to work for one of the main national banking regulators, the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency or OCC.
A year after the demise of Lehman, there are no new rules in place to:
· Control the vast "shadow banking industry" of mortgage originators, insurers and investment banks that caused the crisis.
· Limit excessive risk taking by big Wall Street banks.
· Rein in the short-term incentives in lavish pay and bonus packages that tempted executives to take excessive risks.
· Beef up regulatory agencies like the Securities and Exchange Commission so they can do a better job policing Wall Street.
The key takeaway: There's nothing in place to stop another financial meltdown.
Citigroup (C, news, msgs), Morgan Stanley (MS, news, msgs) and other banks are churning out financial instruments similar to the ones that helped cause the crisis. They're producing securities backed by home mortgages and commercial loans, often repackaging their old mortgage securities as new products.
MONEY MARKET FUNDS NO LONGER GUARANTEED - SEPTEMBER 18
<< <i>If you feel threatened, go ahead and rant. I'm not arguing about your statements, but it is certianly OT. This is not the Open Forum. >>
Beware, he like's to complain about things he considers OT. Not sure why he is posting in this thread though.