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The OFFICIAL 2009 Topps Heritage Thread

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  • Here is my latest and greatest trade list.
    Needs:
    Short Prints: 427x2, 431, 439, 444x2, 447, 450, 453, 460, 461, 470, 477, 483, 486, 488, 491, 492, 493
    NAP: 5, 12, 13x2, 15
    Chrome: 4, 75, 84, 91
    Relics: Mench, Milledge, Upton, Utley
    Dual: Pujols/Musial
    Autos: Cardinals

    Extras:
    Short Prints: 428x3, 429, 432x2, 433, 434x2, 435x3, 440, 441x2, 443, 445, 449, 451x2, 452, 454, 456, 458, 459x2, 465x3, 468x3, 469, 472x2, 473, 475x2, 476x2, 479x4, 481x2, 489x2, 495x2, 496x3, 497x2, 500x2
    BF: 1x3, 3x2, 4x3, 5x3, 6x2, 9x2
    NF: 1,2, 4, 8x2, 9x2
    T&N: 1, 3x2, 6, 8x3, 10x2
    NAP: 1x3, 6x3, 8x2, 10x2, 11x2, 14
    Chrome: 3, 11, 17x2, 18x2, 21, 22x2, 23, 38, 40, 43, 45x3, 46x3, 50, 54, 60, 61, 66, 71, 78x2, 79x3, 80, 86x3, 89, 90, 92, 93, 95x2, 100
    Refractors: 2, 3, 5, 6, 14, 22, 23, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37x2, 39, 43, 44, 46, 53, 59, 61, 62, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70x2, 72, 75, 77, 83, 84, 86, 88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96
    Relics: Crawfordx2, M. Ramirez, Podsednikx2, Tejada, Uggla Wright, Youkilis
  • 86nova86nova Posts: 187 ✭✭

    My computer and I have been at odds this afternoon. Does blue smoke coming out of the back of the machine
    mean that something might be wrong?

    For those of you who are somewhat unhappy with your rips, let me share this. I have just finished opening a
    case, and DO NOT have a complete base set. Not a Master Set, which would not happen, but a BASE SET!!

    I believe Kevin, Jim S., Heritage Addict, and Craig in Texas have conspired with Topps to prevent me from
    completing a set this year. Card # 398 will not be part of my set.

    All Heritage collectors are nutz. However, we are good spelors. Craig in Ohio
  • bjbrall4bjbrall4 Posts: 277 ✭✭
    I went to two local Super Walmarts and found three blaster boxes of 2008 Heritage but no 2009. I did buy all eleven 2009 jumbo packs I found: one chrome, four sp's, and not much else. I keep hoping that "tomorrow" is the day my two cases finally arrive, but I've been hoping for the last week.
  • jmmiller777jmmiller777 Posts: 1,324 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Just got home from Target, 4 blasters and 2 retail boxes! >>


    did the cashier look at you like you were insane? I get that look when I raid their heritage stash >>



    I love it when they give that look and they always do. "Why is this 50 yr guy spending $150 on baseball cards". And the look is always there. I'll be checking out the San Antonio Targets tonight. I hope the look is there. If not it's because there are no cards.
    CURRENT PROJECTS IN WORK:
    To be honest, no direction, but...
    1966-69 Topps EX+
    1975 minis NrMt Kelloggs PSA 9
    All Topps Heritage-Master Sets
    image
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Craig

    We have your back against base set gremlins!

    As far as the retail scene it looks like target got in one 24 count box and walmart got in jumbo packs. I found 17 at one store and 15 at another.....cashiers
    do look at you funny when 15 jumbos ring up for 80 bucks!

    Kevin
  • tillertiller Posts: 149 ✭✭
    Box # 6
    Box topper panel-Laffey,H. Ramirez,Olson.
    no buy back.
    8 SPs
    4 chrome
    1 refractor
    2 NFB
    2 BBFB
    2 T&N
    2 NAP
    clubhouse collection- B.J. Upton BAT.
    Thats it, half of a case. 1 good box. Now we look for retail? Dave
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Just got home from Target, 4 blasters and 2 retail boxes! >>


    did the cashier look at you like you were insane? I get that look when I raid their heritage stash >>



    I love it when they give that look and they always do. "Why is this 50 yr guy spending $150 on baseball cards". And the look is always there. I'll be checking out the San Antonio Targets tonight. I hope the look is there. If not it's because there are no cards. >>



    LOL it's not the cashiers that bug me, it's the people behind me in line while I tie up the cashier for 10 minutes
  • Mick65Mick65 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    Do both the Wal-Mart and the Target packs include the same Mayo exclusive sets? Has anyone scanned the retail wrapper?
  • I'm curious how many people here go after both the refractor set and the chrome set.

    Or, do you pick just one or the other?

    Or, do you do a combination of both?
  • Walmart has a set of 10, and Target has a different set of players. The blasters at Target do not have the Mayo inserts only the packs do.
  • bjbrall4bjbrall4 Posts: 277 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm curious how many people here go after both the refractor set and the chrome set.

    Or, do you pick just one or the other?

    Or, do you do a combination of both? >>



    I collect both the chromes and refractors each as complete sets.


  • << <i>

    << <i>I'm curious how many people here go after both the refractor set and the chrome set.

    Or, do you pick just one or the other?

    Or, do you do a combination of both? >>



    I collect both the chromes and refractors each as complete sets. >>



    That's just amazing. It goes to show what a huge investment that some people make in this product, especially now that the chrome/refractor set is expanded since last year.
  • nam812nam812 Posts: 10,583 ✭✭✭✭✭
    After another flurry of trades, here is where I stand.

    What I need:
    SPs - 439 and 485.
    Chromes - 9, 10, 20, 24, 26, 32, 48, 57, 64, 85, 94, 96, 97, and 98.

    What I have available for trade:
    SP - 429, 434, 435, 438, 443, 446, 448, 451, 452, 455, 456, 459, 462, 464, 465, 468, 475, 482, 484, 490, 493, and 496.
    News Flashback - 2, 5, 6, and 9.
    Baseball Flashback - 1, 4, 5, 8, 9 and 10.
    Then and Now - 1, 7, and 10.
    NAP - 2, 3, 4, 6, and 11.
    Chromes - 78.
    Refractors - 2, 36, 38, 46, 92, 94, 97, 98, and 99.


  • << <i>After another flurry of trades, here is where I stand. >>



    I need 1 - 500.

    Still waiting on retail image

    Hopefully it will come soon and I can start trading.

    Tim
  • DavidPuddyDavidPuddy Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭
    Lockwood said that mine shipped yesterday, so maybe tomorrow or Thursday.
    Jumbo case + 1 extra jumbo box.
    "The Sipe market is ridiculous right now"
    CDsNuts, 1/9/15
  • Its somewhat interesting to see from a distance the course of opinions in this thread over the past two weeks. I know Kevin in particular was the first to open the product up and was so excited about the design, but after two weeks he's having some reservations. It seems like other people feel the same way. It seems like a lot of people are disappointed in the autograph checklist, but hopefully that doesn't take away from the very solid design and nice chrome set.

    It's also interesting to see how people view Heritage in terms of set collecting. In past years when not as many variations are offered, some people complain that it's too easy to put together the set. If there are too many variations or chase cards (ie 42 Mantle HR cards or 110 "black back" cards), another group of guys thinks its too much. I guess there should be a happy medium between too-easy and too-hard/
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>After another flurry of trades, here is where I stand. >>



    I need 1 - 500.

    Still waiting on retail image

    Hopefully it will come soon and I can start trading.

    Tim >>

    What Tim said. I spoke with Joe this morning - his retail distributor assured him that our cases are leaving for California tomorrow. Hopefully that means rippage by Saturday.
  • Mick65Mick65 Posts: 722 ✭✭✭
    When you order retail from a vendor, do you get a Walmart or Target box, or are they generic boxes they may end up at Walgreens?

    Just to confirm here- the SPs are numbered 425-500 and have the back color variation, correct?

    Thanks-
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    It hasn't been mentioned a lot but the chrome set is very nice this year. I have only put together one chrome set and that was in 2003. I only
    just completed it (thanks to Jim Parker). I usually trade away my chromes for autos and SP's. With all the short comings this year the
    one area of improvment is the chrome set. The last two years topps saved some of the better players to include in other products
    like update and topps chrome. This year they just let it all fly and it will be a very nice set once done.

    Now it does appear that these super short prints are very rare this year, can we get a board count to as who has pulled one and what
    kind of pack they pulled them from? I don't think I have seen maybe one pulled by this entire board...is that true? With odds like that
    those cards might be out of the question for set builders, especailly when you can spend 300 bucks on a 550+ card master set or
    400+ dollars on 4 super sp's! I wonder how the value of last years Smoltz and Santana has held up over the year.

    I'm too busy hunting retail to check ebay these days, plus I know someone here knows all these answers! Isn't this thread great?

    Kevin
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    Kevin, my Smoltz variation came from a hobby pack in the case I got from Blowout.

    39 boxes opened total - 1 variation

    and I think Jim (parkerJ) got his Glavine from retail


  • A WalMart in my area had several Jumbo packs, but no blasters.
    2001-2014 Topps Heritage complete!
  • parkerjparkerj Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭
    My thom came from an 8/24 retail case...the only variation i got out of 2 retails, one jumbo and one blaster. They are selling very high on ebay (only 2 so far on ebay: 265 for my glavine, first one sold for 242).

    I have done the chrome every year except 01 (just too darn expensive). good luck on anyone finding an 02 daryl kile chrome - expect to pay about $50+ for that one, someone is hoarding them. I always build with a combo of chrome / refractors. I have a goal to someday upgrade to pure refractors, and i do upgrade as i go. I move a lot of heritage product in and out, so i am constantly upgrading my chrome sets closer to pure refraction.

    2002 chromes are quite underrated...just as rare as 01 chromes, but half the price for commons. Not quite as strong of a checklist as 01 (no maddux, bonds, gwynn, ripken, or a-rod).

    One thing i have learned in 5+ years of buying/selling exclusively heritage: chromes just don't sell on the secondary market. very little interest when compared to sp's. So if you are inclined to go back and build older chrome sets, they are quite affordable....much more so than building the master sp sets. I probably sell 100 sp's per every chrome sold. And don't bother trying to build it by opening packs...thats a killer cost....just buy up lots on ebay and then trade with guys here for the missing pieces. PM me if you need something.
  • I haven't pulled any of the variations, but I did buy the first Smoltz to hit ebay. I was going to add them to my master set like I did with the variations last year, but this year, at least so far, they are commanding way too much money for me to justify. I already sold the Smoltz when I decided not to go after the variations, if the prices come down later in the year I may pick them up.

    Here is my most current trade list, of course this will change later today when I have two more hobby boxes added to the mix.

    Needs:
    Short Prints: 427, 439, 447, 450, 461, 483
    NAP: 5, 13x2, 15
    Chrome: 75, 84
    Relics: Mench
    Dual: Pujols/Musial
    Autos: Dick Gray Blue, Dick Gray Red

    Extras:
    Short Prints: 428x3, 429, 432x2, 434x2, 435x3, 440, 441x2, 443, 445, 449, 451x2, 452, 454, 456, 458, 459x2, 465x3, 468x3, 469, 472x2, 475x2, 476x2, 479x4, 481x2, 489x2, 495x2, 496x3, 497x2, 500x2
    BF: 1x3, 3x2, 4x3, 5x3, 6x2, 9x2
    NF: 1,2, 4, 8x2, 9x2
    T&N: 1, 3x2, 6, 8x3, 10x2
    NAP: 1x3, 6x3, 8x2, 10x2, 11x2, 14
    Chrome: 3, 11, 17x2, 18x2, 21, 22x2, 23, 38, 40, 43, 45x3, 46x3, 50, 54, 60, 61, 66, 71, 78x2, 79x3, 80, 86x3, 89, 90, 92, 93, 95x2, 100
    Refractors: 2, 3, 5, 6, 22, 23, 28, 30, 31, 34, 37x2, 39, 43, 44, 46, 53, 59, 61, 62, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70x2, 72, 75, 77, 83, 84, 88, 89, 90, 91, 93, 94, 95, 96
    Relics: Crawfordx2, M. Ramirez, Podsednikx2, Tejada, Uggla Wright, Youkilis
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I haven't pulled any of the variations, but I did buy the first Smoltz to hit ebay. I was going to add them to my master set like I did with the variations last year, but this year, at least so far, they are commanding way too much money for me to justify. I already sold the Smoltz when I decided not to go after the variations, if the prices come down later in the year I may pick them up.

    >>



    Was yours the one that ended the other night for $203?

    Thats the auction that got me to thinking about selling mine now
  • No Mike, I listed mine yesterday with a bin of $225 and it sold in less than an hour.
  • paleocardspaleocards Posts: 935 ✭✭✭✭
    My "funny story" a few pages back about my son buying a full retail box (24-count) from a clueless Target for $20 has a very happy ending, I pulled this out of it:


    image


    Not sure what I want to do with it yet. Two have been listed on eBay, the first is still active ($21.05 with 1.5 days to go), the second was snapped-up within 45 minutes of it going live for a "Best Offer" of $119. While waiting for the current listing to close, I'll consider trade offers from the board. I still need ~30 SPs and since I haven't pulled an auto from the seven boxes I've opened, I'd be interested in any (preferably red) you may be willing to part with. Please PM me with any trade offers.

    Thanks,
    Andy

    P.S. Just found another one that BIN'd yesterday for $99 (eBay item #130292998326) within an hour of being listed.
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    wow nice pull man - congrats!!
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
    Nice pull, Andy - congrats!

    edit: so that's three variations pulled by board members, right?

    Mike - Smoltz
    Jim - Glavine
    Andy - Winn


  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    anyone have a


    THOM Glavine for trade / sell ?

    I collect errors and need this one ...

    PM me ! or reply
    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    I went to walmart a week ago bought 22 packs

    First pack I ripped TOM Glavine -- (not the THOM) -- and a griffey chrome

    since then I didn't open any of the remaining packs. lol

    I want the THOM


    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • Got my hobby case this morning, I'll have to go buy the USB cable that I apparently missed being stolen (long story), so scans will have to wait for now. Naybe later tonight, since I have to go to work soon.

    Box 1

    Box topper panel-Loney/Boone/Mgr Russell
    Barry Shetrone buy back
    8 SPs
    5 chrome (Fielder, Berkman, Longoria, Uggla, V Wells)
    1 refractor (Martin)
    2 NFB
    2 BBFB
    1 T&N (Minoso/Chipper)
    1 NAP (Lincecum)
    clubhouse collection- Uggla
  • Box 2

    Box topper panel-Patterson/Byrrell/Bannister
    no buyback
    8 SPs
    4 chrome (Manny, Quentin, Kosuke (whose last name doesn't pass the board profanity filter, lol!), Papelbon)
    1 refractor (Mariano Rivera)
    2 NFB
    2 BBFB
    2 T&N (Friend/Lee, Mantle/Dunn)
    2 NAP (Hamels, Wright)
    clubhouse collection- JD Drew red jersey

    Out of curiosity, do all the Mets Coaches cards have HoJo with the old Mets hat? The other 2 coaches have the new black and blue version, he's got the lighter blue with bright orange logo like his playing days. One more box, then I gotta go back to work.
  • matthewbschultz83matthewbschultz83 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Walmart has a set of 10, and Target has a different set of players. The blasters at Target do not have the Mayo inserts only the packs do. >>


    Does anyone have both the Wal-Mart and Target Mayo checklists?

    Target in D/FW has nothing and Wal-Mart had no blasters. Now they have no Rack packs. image I picked up 30 rack packs between 2 Wal-Marts last night.

    As far as the variations go I have bought three on ebay:
    Tom "Thom" Glavine - $242.50
    Smoltz Red Sox - $203.50
    Hanley Ramirez Red Sox - $125

    It is my opinion that my set won't be complete without the Super Short Prints. Right now there are a confirmed 4 super short prints. I am convinced there are 5. I think we are going to see Fred Lewis on a card that says Randy Winn. My racks weren't spectacular, hit the stated odds on the SPs, chromes, and chrome refractors.
    Matt's Card Page
    What I'm selling
    image

    Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
  • Box 3 aka Phillies Box

    Box topper panel-Hamels/Pierre/Y Escobar
    Jack Fisher buyback
    8 SPs
    4 chrome (Burrell, Howard, Marson, Ka'aihue)
    1 refractor (Hamels)
    2 NFB
    2 BBFB
    1 T&N (Podres/Lincecum)
    2 NAP (Teixeira,Braun)
    TCA Nelson Chittum Blue ink

    One of the short prints was Phillies Coaches, and I saw a Hamels regular as I flipped through packs. Shame I'm not a Phils fan eh? More later tonight, can't avoid work anymore.
  • tillertiller Posts: 149 ✭✭
    I think Topps does a good job on this product. They try to build it as close to the real 1960 set as they can. Back then miscut and nonperfect cards were the norm. They bring you back. When I open this stuff it brings me back to what I remember as a lot of fun. I wish they would break it up to 6 or 7 series, like it was then. Then you would have it all year. They could eliminate the chrome and refractors, and have an insert set of reprints of the players of the real set. 75 or so. Thanks TOPPS keep up the good work. Dave.
  • I'll check Target and Wal-Mart on the way to work to see what we have here. Wal Mart HQ is only a few hours away, surely we have packs locally....
  • parkerjparkerj Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭


    << <i> I wish they would break it up to 6 or 7 series, like it was then. Then you would have it all year. They could eliminate the chrome and refractors, and have an insert set of reprints of the players of the real set. 75 or so. >>



    Dave, you are exactly stating an idea i've had for years...That is what they should be doing with these sets...and i think the flagship should be in 5-7 series as well throughout the summer.

    How cool would the reprint inserts be? They already make a few reprints for the autos, so we know its not that hard to do...and wouldn't it be cheaper to manufacture than the chromes?
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    As far as the variations go I have bought three on ebay:
    Tom "Thom" Glavine - $242.50
    Smoltz Red Sox - $203.50
    Hanley Ramirez Red Sox - $125



    Man I want those variations -- they are very pricey already

    I wish I knew if they came from hobby or retail boxes..


    I want to buy some boxes and take a chance but can't come up with a good stategy to get early print boxes
    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • psu92psu92 Posts: 283
    To clarify the super SPs that are known:

    Hanley Ramirez - Red Sox

    Thom Glavine

    John Smoltz - Red Sox

    Fred Lewis - Actually Randy Winn

    Are there any others?

    Thanks.

  • matthewbschultz83matthewbschultz83 Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭


    << <i>To clarify the super SPs that are known:

    Hanley Ramirez - Red Sox

    Thom Glavine

    John Smoltz - Red Sox

    Fred Lewis - Actually Randy Winn

    Are there any others?

    Thanks. >>



    Those are the only 4 we know about. The other one that makes sense would be Randy Winn - Actually Fred Lewis. But I do think we would have seen it pop up on Ebay by now. I guess we'll just have to wait on the Beckett list confirmed by Topps.
    Matt's Card Page
    What I'm selling
    image

    Building Sets, Collecting Texas Rangers, and Texas Tech Red Raiders
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Here is my wantlist and extra list. If you are ready to trade hit me up!


    NEEDS:

    SP's 467-457*-446*-444-438-427
    NAP13*
    Any Higher End Ryan Howard
    Any Autograph
    *=Pending

    EXTRAS:

    SP's: 500-499-497-496-496-495-493-492-491-490-489-489-489-488-486-484-481-480-480-479-479-479-476-475-475-475-475-473-472-470-469-468-468-468-466-466-
    465-465-459-459-458-456-456-449-445-445-445-441-439-435-435-434-432-429-428-426-426

    I also have a bunch of chromes, refractors, panels and extras of the insert sets.

    Thanks
    Kevin
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,500 ✭✭✭
    If anyone's pulled a variation

    Can they please put the following in the thread :


    Which card(s)

    hobby or retail

    where purchased (dealer or location in US)

    any other helpful hints please post!!

    thanks

    by far this board is the best

    can't wait for the next group submit and group break

    thx
    Buying:
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Gotta wonder how many of these variations are sitting in people's common boxes. Heck we are experts and Im not sure how many of us would miss some
    of these variations if we pulled them in a pack!

    Kevin
  • DavidPuddyDavidPuddy Posts: 3,485 ✭✭✭
    I'm sick of waiting for my Lockwood Jumbo's, so I just ran to Wal*Mart.
    I picked up the last 5 Jumbo packs they had.

    Pulled a Gil McDougald blue autoimage
    "The Sipe market is ridiculous right now"
    CDsNuts, 1/9/15
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭


    << <i>I'm sick of waiting for my Lockwood Jumbo's, so I just ran to Wal*Mart.
    I picked up the last 5 Jumbo packs they had.

    Pulled a Gil McDougald blue autoimage >>



    wow that was strong, I have opened 30+ jumbo and haven't pulled anything. LMK if the McDougald is for trade.

    Kevin
  • I have two hobby boxes coming later today, but after seeing the Puddy post I drove to Walmart hoping to find some heritage, but no luck. Actually I'm at the point now of doing anything to avoid finishing the sorting of my base cards. image
  • KnopflerKnopfler Posts: 783 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Gotta wonder how many of these variations are sitting in people's common boxes. Heck we are experts and Im not sure how many of us would miss some
    of these variations if we pulled them in a pack!

    Kevin >>



    I pulled a Santana Mets card out of a $20 base set that I bought on ebay last year.
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
    Well, something had to give. My retail case 1/2 hasn't arrived, and the wife sent me to the super Target for milk. Card aisle is on the way. No blasters, no jumbos, no rack packs.....hold on, what this? A sealed retail box? Man, I hate to pay retail for this stuff, but it was sealed. I haven't ripped anything, well except for helping Joe rip his hobby case. Aaaaarrrggh.

    12x2 retail box is sitting in front of me. Details to come.

    I'm so weak....
  • Hopefully it yields a real cut auto for you!
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,710 ✭✭✭
    Pack 3 = the tease pack. 3rd card in is Randy Winn - regular base card. There was a Randy Johnson refractor, though. 1st two packs had SPs.

    Carry on (my wayward sons)

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