Northwest Territorial Mint: Good or Bad?
bigmansam88
Posts: 1,209
Just looking for some input before placing an order with them.
All comments on the subject are appreciated.
FWIW, I plan on buying a 100 ounce bar.
All comments on the subject are appreciated.
FWIW, I plan on buying a 100 ounce bar.
0
Comments
Good luck
After a couple of weeks, I started asking questions and all I got was a runaround. Nobody could tell me when my order would ship. I started raising hell, and finally they shipped about 5 weeks after I ordered.
Obviously, they took my money and were playing the market, looking for a break in prices before fulfilling my order. That's NOT the way to do business, in my opinion.
Never again.
I knew it would happen.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
delivery was 3-4 months into the future at the time and it was depressing.
if i would have bought i would be in the hole right now. buried.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
I still wouldn't order from them.
Their operation is just a bit too shaky for me.
They are only a broker, Hell, I could just as easily be a broker too.
Send me your money and I'll promise delivery when I get around to it.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
FWIW, the bars on APMEX are probably a better deal at the moment if you don't mind waiting until December.
<< <i>Is it just me or are they out of 100oz bars? They seem to have 10oz bars available, but I don't see where it's possible to add a 100oz bar to my cart.
FWIW, the bars on APMEX are probably a better deal at the moment if you don't mind waiting until December. >>
buying via their online store is not really a deal.
i would call them up and order 50+ ounces and wait for delivery.
a much better price if you buy that way.
<< <i>my tiny 5 oz bar came today if it helps at all
When did you order it.
<< <i>
<< <i>my tiny 5 oz bar came today if it helps at all
When did you order it. >>
I ordered 9/20 and they said at checkout it wont ship for up to 20 days which was fine with me...they shipped in about 18 days or so.....if not in a hurry, it seems ok to deal with it.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>What would happen if you placed a large order and when they were to ship it 3 months down the road silver had doubled in price. Would you still receive your order? >>
Absolutely! Basically what you have is a 3 month mini contract. At any time during those 3 months, you may sell your order back to them at market rates. At the end of the 3 months, if you have not liquidated your order, you take delivery of the physical metal itself no matter what the price at the time.
<< <i>good luck gecko! I just don't see how they can be in business doing this? Why don't they just ebay their silver? They can make more money and all. >>
I was on hold for every bit of 20 minutes until I got through to a sales rep this morning. If they are so swamped that it takes them that long to answer a phone call, I imagine they dont think selling individual bars on ebay is worth the headaches.
<< <i>good luck gecko! I just don't see how they can be in business doing this? Why don't they just ebay their silver? They can make more money and all. >>
Their DSR would go down to zero ... as mentioned before, they do not have the actual PM on hand & that's the 3 month delay. With Silver in a $10 holding area, it's unlikely you'll be selling it back to them, but to take delivery instead.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>I told the B&M store about this place so they did a little googling and said that Northwest Mint was declaring bankruptcy? Anyone know anything about this? >>
False rumor....but they just recently settled a law suit with the Washington State Atty General..regarding their "delivery schedule"
Link to the article
<< <i>Absolutely! Basically what you have is a 3 month mini contract. At any time during those 3 months, you may sell your order back to them at market rates. At the end of the 3 months, if you have not liquidated your order, you take delivery of the physical metal itself no matter what the price at the time. >>
Famous last words. They could simply pull the plug and be off scott free with everyone's money.
I remember stuff like this in '79 and millions were lost. Back then a million really meant something too.
This isn't the US Mint where you really do have a mini contract.
At what point do they require the $$ to be transferred? If it's before your order becomes official, and I suspect it must be, you have little in the way of defense.
Too risky a game for me. I have other sources much closer with product in hand.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>Absolutely! Basically what you have is a 3 month mini contract. At any time during those 3 months, you may sell your order back to them at market rates. At the end of the 3 months, if you have not liquidated your order, you take delivery of the physical metal itself no matter what the price at the time. >>
Famous last words. They could simply pull the plug and be off scott free with everyone's money.
I remember stuff like this in '79 and millions were lost. Back then a million really meant something too.
This isn't the US Mint where you really do have a mini contract.
At what point do they require the $$ to be transferred? If it's before your order becomes official, and I suspect it must be, you have little in the way of defense.
Too risky a game for me. I have other sources much closer with product in hand. >>
They have unbeatable prices on some of their rounds and bars but like you say... a 3 month or more wait is way too risky for me.
<< <i>3 month wait? they told me 30 days and it was here in 22.... >>
be quiet! no one wants to hear your actual experience with the company. lets listen to those who never placed an order with them!
oh forgot the winky ;-)
<< <i>They have unbeatable prices on some of their rounds and bars but like you say... a 3 month or more wait is way too risky for me. >>
Actually, no they don't. Now you can listen to someone who has never placed an order with them.
I've got 300 ounces in 10 ounce Engelhards and a 100 ounce Engelhard due by the end of the week at $111 each on the 10s and $1100 on the 100 ouncer.
Tell me they are cheaper than that and don't forget shipping and insurance, not to mention delays.
No winks, just facts.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>
<< <i>They have unbeatable prices on some of their rounds and bars but like you say... a 3 month or more wait is way too risky for me. >>
Actually, no they don't. Now you can listen to someone who has never placed an order with them.
I've got 300 ounces in 10 ounce Engelhards and a 100 ounce Engelhard due by the end of the week at $111 each on the 10s and $1100 on the 100 ouncer.
Tell me they are cheaper than that and don't forget shipping and insurance, not to mention delays.
No winks, just facts. >>
it appears you have never even bothered to read the website.
1060 on a 100 ounce bar with free shipping/handling and insurance.
and yes.. even the 10 ouncers would be cheaper.
their main complaint is the delay. otherwise they seem legit and a good
deal. the best i have ever seen on a day to day basis.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>They have unbeatable prices on some of their rounds and bars but like you say... a 3 month or more wait is way too risky for me. >>
Actually, no they don't. Now you can listen to someone who has never placed an order with them.
I've got 300 ounces in 10 ounce Engelhards and a 100 ounce Engelhard due by the end of the week at $111 each on the 10s and $1100 on the 100 ouncer.
Tell me they are cheaper than that and don't forget shipping and insurance, not to mention delays.
No winks, just facts. >>
it appears you have never even bothered to read the website.
1060 on a 100 ounce bar with free shipping/handling and insurance.
and yes.. even the 10 ouncers would be cheaper.
their main complaint is the delay. otherwise they seem legit and a good
deal. the best i have ever seen on a day to day basis. >>
I have read the website, though not in the last week or so.
I don't even care for Teletrade and NWT is absolutely off-limits to me. Much too risky.
Oh wait!! I just looked at their site again. I'm talking Engelhards, they are talking bottom feeder silver.
They don't list a price for Engelhard 100s so how can you say they are cheaper?
No 10 ouncers either and the crap ones they have listed are a whole $1 cheaper. That's garbage compared to Engelhard.
Then you have the absurd wait times, shippping and insurance if it applies. I'm picking mine up in town. Huge difference!
Over 26,000 complaints listed on a google search, when they offered refunds, if spot was down from purchase time, you got less than you paid initially along with being jerked around. Nearly as many delays have been reported by buyers. Just what I've read in the last few minutes scares the crap out of me!
If you value your money, I'd say stay away. Their brand of silver is at bottom feeder level anyway.
Comparing that to Engelhard is like comparing a Yugo, or a Prius to a twin turbo Porsche or a Ferrari.
Learn to compare apples to apples. I know you're smarter than this weak attempt.
If I were a flipper, I could flip 3-4 Engelhard orders at better profit in the time it would take to even get your NWT order, if you got it at all.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
they actually mint the other ones which mean they can offer them
cheaper. of course engelhard will be more... they are not exactly
being made anymore.
only old timers go around saying engelhard/JM is the best... it is a
pure case of get off my lawn type of thinking.
your arguments are showing desperation lately.
Hey FC, don't you wish you got Engelhards for 111!!! Thats insane!
Deadhorse your the man for getting it that cheap
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
<< <i>i give up... .999 fine silver is .999 fine silver. bottom feeding.. sigh.
they actually mint the other ones which mean they can offer them
cheaper. of course engelhard will be more... they are not exactly
being made anymore.
only old timers go around saying engelhard/JM is the best... it is a
pure case of get off my lawn type of thinking.
your arguments are showing desperation lately. >>
You should give up.
First rule of holes is when you're in one, quit digging.
There isn't a single person with any experience in PMs who would prefer NWT over Engelhard.
Only old timers??
You're acting like you just got your pants pulled down in public and you're flailing away at thin air.
Well, you did just get de-pants, but you walked right into it.
Best to tuck tail and give it up on this one as you are most certainly in a minority of one and decidedly wrong.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
<< <i>HOLD ON MR. Deadhorse........did you say you got Engelhards at 111? HOLY COW! I'm gonna have to PM you and get some from you!
Hey FC, don't you wish you got Engelhards for 111!!! Thats insane!
Deadhorse your the man for getting it that cheap >>
when silver hits 20 again... i highly doubt your buyer will make a pile of .999 fine and engelhard .999 fine... and tell you hey! this is engelhard..
i will give you a dollar more for each ounce!
.....
more then likely.. you will get the same price for all of it.
when silver is 9 an ounce.. i can see it being different. a silver round
with santa on it.. aint exactly engelhard.
but to say sunshine or NWT is bottom feeding silver is funny.
imagine that canadian maples are more pure then engelhard but
i do not go around preaching they are better...
<< <i>
<< <i>i give up... .999 fine silver is .999 fine silver. bottom feeding.. sigh.
they actually mint the other ones which mean they can offer them
cheaper. of course engelhard will be more... they are not exactly
being made anymore.
only old timers go around saying engelhard/JM is the best... it is a
pure case of get off my lawn type of thinking.
your arguments are showing desperation lately. >>
You should give up.
First rule of holes is when you're in one, quit digging.
There isn't a single person with any experience in PMs who would prefer NWT over Engelhard.
Only old timers??
You're acting like you just got your pants pulled down in public and you're flailing away at thin air.
Well, you did just get de-pants, but you walked right into it.
Best to tuck tail and give it up on this one as you are most certainly in a minority of one and decidedly wrong. >>
deadhorse. i do not have to prove myself. educated readers of this
forum can see a logical argument and decide for themselves. i know
i cannot change the mind of someone who is so set in their ways.
<< <i>I gotta agree with Deadhorse here. Engelhard is just a great "name brand", a top quality product. It's like the Morgan Dollar; you might like 3 cent pieces better but you're not gonna convince anyone. You can't fight that kind of momentum. The other Johnny-come-lately companies don't compare, and what they're selling is NOT the same thing in the mind of the consumer. I don't mind paying a slight premium for Engelhards and I know a lot of others do likewise. >>
allow me to make a different argument then.
Only $0.69 cents per ounce over spot.
(Brand New) Top-of-the-Line - .9999+ Fine Silver Bar (One of the purest bars available on the market) COMEX Deliverable - Peñoles (full name in Spanish Industrias Peñoles, S.A.B. de C.V.), based in Mexico City, Mexico, is a subsidiary company 100 percent Mexican and owned by the private Grupo Bal. Peñoles is the second largest Mexican mining company, the first Mexican producer of gold and zinc and the world leader in silver production.
----
this is a comex deliverable bar. is it also a second rate slop bar?
no. it is .9999 fine silver. the same stuff as engelhard just more pure... are we buying
silver or a name?
i know i am buying silver and want the most of it for my money.
if i had a pile of silver and spot was 20 bucks i highly doubt the buyer
would set aside the engelhard/JM and say hey! i will pay a buck more
per ounce for this stuff!
so at that point in time when you sell.. all the silver you bought for
less then engelhard due to the lower premium will make you more money
in the end.
logical yes? i think so and it makes financial sense to get the most
silver for your money in a "brand" name. Brand name being a trusted
source like sunshine, NWT, Penoles, etc...
but to each their own. i just think logically and less emotional.
<< <i>deadhorse. i do not have to prove myself.[/q}
After this display on your part, you may have to start over from scratch.
<< <i>educated readers of thisforum can see a logical argument and decide for themselves.[/q}
Yep, I'd say it's a TKO and it didn't take long.
<< <i>i know i cannot change the mind of someone who is so set in their ways. >>
Not a matter of being set in one's ways, just a matter of knowing the facts.
If your math teacher tells you 2+2=4 , it's not a matter of being stubborn, it's a matter of being right.
I have been laughing my azz off here, best entertainment in a long time.
BTW, when silver was at $20, Engelhard and J&M WERE bringing top dollar, all others were at least a dollar or more less. It wasn't that long ago.
Don't bother starting a new pitch, you're not going to save face on the original point. It smacks of desperation.
Besides, I've had enough entertainment for one evening.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
and had not read the website in ages... engelhard being the best
does not float anymore when it has not been minted in decades. You
can buy purer silver from accepted places today... that is COMEX deliverable
which seems to be the key to the whole argument from the beginning
to engelhard. At least JM still mints them.
what i have stated makes sense to me. when i have sold silver to
dealers at 17 an ounce a while back... engelhard made no difference
compared to sunshine. it all sold for the same price. when the dealer
sells it, it was all priced the same. To me that is normal. If you cannot
trust sunshine which makes blanks for the US mint... you cannot trust
anyone...
if a dealer can sell engelhard and have people believe it is "better"
more power to them. Me? I will try to get the most silver for my money. I will not continue the nonsense that engelhard is the best.
.999 fine is .999 fine from a reputable source.
me? i will continue to use logic and what has happened to me during
my experiences buying and selling the stuff.
but like i said. to each their own. every person here will consider the
points and decide for themself.
if anyone is curious here is a list of comex deliverable silver refiners
http://www.nymex.com/media/ntm65_05.pdf
quite a long list. why some people want you to think engelhard and
JM are the best.. is probably due to nationalism.
----------
-----------
oh a bit more history. engelhard was a large refiner back then of silver. premiums were very high due to the hysteria around silver
so they started making small bars to cash in on this. eventually
the hysteria stopped so they also stopped. I think that is the case
with JM also which still refines large bars.
people back then were basically indoctrinated by the propaganda.
hey a comex deliverable company making small bars! it
is the best. well crap.. why not go with a comex deliverable company? makes sense.
it does sound reasonable. but to say it is better is simply foolish.
to call all other silver bars as second class is silly. when the hysteria
dies down premiums will shrink on the buy side.. and when you sell
it will all be treated the same.
only now days with PM craziness taking hold with buyers.. they lose
all common sense. when silver was 12 an ounce i was selling at 18.
insane right? dont count on that lasting. silver is silver.
<< <i>has anyone who ordered recently even gotten their order from NWT yet??? >>
yes, my 2 recent orders came through with no worries..if they tell you 3 weeks to ship, its 3 weeks..they tell you when you order it may take a certain amount of time and so far they are on on the money
<< <i>I just this second got off the phone with NTM and she told me there was a 12 to 14 week wait. >>
when i got off the phone with them two months ago it was the same
back then too.
<< <i>I just this second got off the phone with NTM and she told me there was a 12 to 14 week wait. >>
That's way too long to wait for PMs. Better to pay a slight premium, if necessary, and walk out the door with them. If something were to happen to them, like a bankruptcy or some type of corporate malfeasance, you'd be wiped out of that money.