Seven - good luck on your sales. You will notice I did not state 2008 Platinum would be worth less than 2004 - my comment spoke of 2009 in my example. We will see what happens with 2008's.
Raven - Yes, a few dealers do stock it. I have a number of 2008 sets in stock as I produced PR70DC 2008 Platinum coins for customers (two or three of the #1 Plat sets already have complete PR70DC 2008 Plat coins from me). None of the 69's are for sale right now as they will go into 1997-2008 complete date runs I am assembling. Obviously, I will lose a great deal of money if the Mint reoffers the 2008 coins, but, it would not matter to me either way. In fact, I hope the Mint reoffers the coins for the collectors' sake. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
WC you might be right on that- time will tell- if platinum prices stay supressed anything can happen- volatility will ensure no re-offering. Now, how do I get rid of my SAE PR70 set? Suggestions?
<< <i>Wow, coinhog is as happy as a pig in ***t! Right at home it seem...
Ok, so wondercoin - they are listed and I have had 3 under the table offers in the range of $8-9K for the set. When 2009 comes along and the coins aren't for sale- watch them jump to over 30K for that set! This isn't some stupid commemerative- this is the real deal and you missed out. You collectors check out ebay - you will see what this set is commanding- have no doubts! >>
If I were you, I wouldn't sell now. I would hold out for at least couple of years. At least until 2010-2012. Thats when I would sell!!!! Unless of course you couldn't afford to play in this game in the first palce and you need to get out.
Check it out. Do some research. With all of this modern bullion, you shouldn't sell during the initial spike. The various issues just keep getting more and more popular as time goes on. The longer you hold, the higher it goes. Just look at the various 2006 W offerings in the various metal. To The Moon!!!! Hold Hold Hold. Thats my advice to you. I am sure 7over8, kealesdad, wondercoin, buffhunter and all the others will agree with me in this particular instance.. You should hold these as long as possible to get the highest price. Right guys. Tell him, Hold Hold Hold. Give him the advice he needs. LOL.
Pig, it sounds like you want to be nice- maybe you were reminded of your manners. You should apologize for being rude. But, like 7/8 you will probably be stubborn and rude. There is a nice way to say things and we shouldn't have to have the manner police out here in full patrol. Everyone should be able to enjoy the hobby and the collective wisdom here without such insult. I look forward to you re-establishing your honor here.
<< <i>Pig, it sounds like you want to be nice- maybe you were reminded of your manners. You should apologize for being rude. But, like 7/8 you will probably be stubborn and rude. There is a nice way to say things and we shouldn't have to have the manner police out here in full patrol. Everyone should be able to enjoy the hobby and the collective wisdom here without such insult. I look forward to you re-establishing your honor here. >>
I certainly wasn't reminded of my manners by you. Read over your attack posts on 7/8. Saying his kids hate him. c'mon. Grow up! If you knew anything about the Precious metals collectible market, you would know that my most recent post was terrible advice. Just look at the various pricing of all of the 2006 W offerings. They shot up after the initial release and NOW ONLY COMMAND A FRACTION OF THEIR HIGHER PRICES.
My honor is fine here.
edited for spelling and to take out the name calling where I called Seven an idiot.
I guess its like they say, once a pig always a pig. Or is it a pig is a pig is a pig? In any case, you mouth as with most pigs is far ahead of your brain. You just keep spewing from your trough! I'm the one with the set- you are the one that is wanting, stop eating so much and save some cash- I will give you a 1% discount on the price. Consider it the ugly pig discount.
I really got to ask, what exactly is your problem? it is the same people in all the platinum threads and there is never any your mama type jokes in any of them until you decided it was needed.....
Alot of the people in the platinum threads have piles of platinum coins from this and many other years and just does not talk about what they have.
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
I agree there is NO NEED for personal attacks. Though, someone here awhile sees a new user and discounts or wildly insults that member. So, Raven, don't be a birdbrain, look back, pig and 78 both expressed some insulting unprovoked comments that were disingenuous and uncalled for! Did I one-up them, yes I confess I did but I don't need a boob or a pig insulting me! So, I apologize for my sharp comments back, which is much more than either one of them will ever do! In fact, I predict another juvenile response from both of them.
Second, both were wrong- I have 3 offers on my set and it isn't going to ANYONE for less than 11K. If you can find a better deal- let me know- but you won't! The set has little chance of being offered and I agree that the market for that series is limited- but if the status quo is maintained this is the KING! And there is no denying it.
I'd be surprised if the Mint brought the platinums back at this point.
As for the 3 under-the-table offers of 8-9k for a set, was that uncirculated ws or proofs? just curious.
Assuming that no more sets are offered, that seems like a pretty good price.
I missed out on ordering the W uncirculateds, but did pick up 2 Proof sets and 5 $25s in early May. They're still in the sealed package from the Mint, so should be FS eligible.
I've just been sitting on them... haven't given them much thought either way since then.
They are for the ngc70 proofs, and I agree. Paradoxically I think the depressed price of platinum will cause greater interest in this set over time, this is in "respectful" disagreement to coinhogs perspective.
I've never had a problem with coinhog, and his opinion on this is a reasonable one.
You're basically playing roulette at this point. You doubled up once. You can take your profit now, or let it ride. You can call the decision wise or foolish depending on the result of the next spin of the wheel, but it's a gamble either way.
Sometimes it can be a good move to take a quick profit while interest is high.
There are plenty of examples of where holding for the long term wasn't the most profitable course of action. 1950-d nickels are a good example. Some coins start out hot, and then interest dies off. Check out 2006 w burnished silver eagles. They hit $110+ within a few months of close of sales, and now they've gone cold.
It's hard to say if and when low mintage platinums will get a moment in the sun, or how long that moment will last.
The biggest problem for the 2008s is that they were priced so high to begin with. The issue price was effectively over $2300/ounce. With platinum dropping to $1000 an ounce, for now any upside over issue price will be based primarily on numismatic, not bullion, value. A lot of the potential upside was priced in at the outset, and the sharp decline in melt value cannot be ignored.
Demand is very uncertain right now -- indeed, pretty much everything is uncertain right now-- and there is always the chance the Mint could reopen sales and flood the market with whatever they have in stock.
If the gloom-and-doom crowd are wrong, and the recent market drop to 8500 is more like October 1987 than October 1929, I think 10k a set is within reason; the 2004 proofs were pulling in something around $8,000 a set with higher mintage numbers while platinum was about $1,000 an ounce. There's certainly precedent for that kind of valuation; albeit at a time when credit was loose, housing was high, and there was a stronger platinum collector base.
Really, assuming for now that supply is set (meaning the Mint has issued all that it will -- and it's just an assumption, no way of knowing at this point) the big unknown is demand. Offers in the 8-9k range are an indicator that demand does exist, and establishes a price point for those potential buyers -- but the depth of that demand is still unknown. Is the demand pool shallow or deep? There could just be 3 buyers out there who missed out and have the money to purchase... is the demand 3 deep? Or is there a pool of buyers deep enough to maintain a high price?
A few years ago, I never thought that we'd see a day when the 2004 proofs might be vulnerable. At the beginning of the year, I never thought we'd see a day when the 2006 ws might be vulnerable.
In a rational world, this wouldn't happen. Of course, we aren't in a rational world, we are in the Mint's world; we are subject to the whims of an irrational monopoly.
As to the offers on your set, in my opinion 8-9k for an NGC 70 set certainly merits consideration. NGC PF70s don't command as much premium as PCGS PF70s, and often trade at or slightly above PCGS PF69 levels. If your primary reason for the purchase was speculation, I'd advise selling and taking a quick 100% profit. There aren't too many times in life you can double your money in a few months, and the key to a sale is that the buyer has to believe there is upside in it for him as well. These certainly could end up being $11,000 or more a set; no doubt whoever is offering $8-9k believes that is possible.
If your primary reason for the purchase was as a collector, there's nothing wrong with holding on to the set, as long as you can be comfortable with the fact that it might not increase in value from here. There's no right or wrong choice.
It's impossible to know where these are going to head; factors at play include (1) will Mint release more? (2) will platinum rise or fall? (3) will the number of platinum collectors increase or decrease? (4) will the dollar be devalued such that price inflation takes place? We'll know the answer to #1 sometime in the next couple of months.
Your line of thought is similar to mine. A 100% profit on the series is not enough for me to sell them- I am not a coin dealer and I don't have the same motivation to sell them or "make a quick profit." I agree there is a gamble to whatever action I have taken, and the set won't go for less than 11K- that's where I stand on the issue. Others might sell it for a lot less, or not let it go for even more. I think the price of platinum was much too high for anyone to easily dole out that kind of money at the time- especially with so many offerings from the mint. Most people got caught up in that damn anniversary series that probably will never go for much. I have 3 sets of them- one still in the packaged box from the mint. With that price drop, the mint had to remove them- and my discussions with the supervisor today- she implied a slim to none chance and absolutely no word on ANY possibility of its return. With that said, this series will be the talk of the town and on the front page of every coin magazine once it is established definitively. Any I don't care what anyone is saying about prices- the stupid 95-W is getting 20K at NGC70 with a mintage of 31K+ We're looking at availability of less than 500 for some of these- that won't happen again. This coin and the series and 2008 will be Moy's legacy before he leaves and the mint will be forced to behave better in the years to come.
The 95-W Silver Eagle coin is in a silver set which is collected by nearly every american coin collector there is. I say this by the fact that they sell what 12-15 million bullion coins each year (now I know a great number go to investors but still) with a ton more proof and W unc coins each year.....
Platinum coins on the other hand continue to have little mintages (do all proof coins over all years equal the 2008 SAE Proof coin?) with next to know recognition by the general collecting public.....
The 2008/2007 silver eagle took a long time to get out into the general collecting knowledge (I went to a few shops looking for one and the dealers did not know what I was talking about).
Those of us that are platinum collectors, be it 1/10 oz coins or all potential offering are few in number and the rise in platinum surely knocked some of the collectors that could not stomach the prices to get out.
The general price of the coins is of some interest to me, but I have the coins in my collection with no interest in selling them. One day at some point they will have the sunlight shining on them and we will all be smiling.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
You're just an idiot, absolutely no knowledge of the market, diarrhea of the mouth, newbie that does not want to even entertain the wisdom of many on this thread like CoinHog, Raven, etc etc etc.
Get out the duct tape, tie your hands behind your back and LISTEN.
For one, you called the US Mint and talked to a Supervisor who has as absolutely no knowledge about the product they are selling, better yet - that sales are suspended and when these items will be back. Did you ever think to call a contact at the Office of Public Affairs......oh sorry, you had no idea, and you dont know anyone there either. What a surprise.
The UNC-W Platinum will be re-offered this year for much lower prices. There is lots of remaining stock to sell. Confirmed with the right office.
The Fall Catalog should have the UNC-W PLAT offering included in it. If not, prior to Christmas.......at least 3/4 weeks prior to Christmas.
<< <i>Interesting FS numbers but remember there may be more out there that remain unopened in original shipping boxes eligible for FS submission. >>
Rather than take a chance on PCGS giving you a PR70, you'd probably be better off selling the unopened box. I don't see many more 2008 FS PR70s. Only 1% of the coins sold are PR70 and only ~30% of those submitted have come back PR70 (and most of those are coins that, after visual review, were considered 70s). If you send them to PCGS, sight unseen, that % drops considerably. Remember the, "we won't do FS, we will do FS" hiccup? I'd bet that a few shipping boxes were opened...
Bottom line, this year has been the perfect storm for FS plats. The 2008 Proof Pt Eagles in FS are scarce-- That we already know without waiting to see if the Mint will sell more. >>
Hehehe, My 2008 plats in MS70, PR70DC First Strike and 2008w in MS70FS are all looking better, day by day.
Well, I hate to derail this back to the original subject as have several others but I am concerned about demand. I haven't really entered into this fray (and am not going to) but have a fair amount of platinums in unc, proof and unc W from '97 when I started up through '08. So have been in it for a while.
I think the true demand by non-flippers is VERY low. Wish it was higher but just don't see the interest. I went with a friend to a large bullion dealer here in Maryland and he seemed not the least bit interested in platinums as there was very little demand and therefore few sales of ANY of the three types we now have; few sales, less profit.
Gold and silver were very different as people are gobbling them up - the rags and mags seem to confirm this as well. So there is not a lot of interest on the demand side as I was saying and even with low sales of the W uncs, there is little caring and little collecting. Perhaps the proofs have a bit more.
I think it is exciting to get low mintage coins over the years in a very precious metal but have had to be realistic: most people really do not care, and by people I mean collectors of even the other bullion coins.
I think if I was into flipping and not holding as a collector I might dump one '08 plat set for a 100% gain and look for other opportunities...If it was ten sets, maybe dump four or five because at five bases would be covered completely if the market recedes like the '06W uncs or even the vaunted '04 proof halves.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Ok, so the next moron who says "Gee I don't know why you have to be so mean to these guys" can take a long walk off a short pier. With dogs like 7/8 you have to be perfectly clear- they like to run their fat mouths because the extent of their lives is this coin business. They have no problem attacking and when confronted with the facts go into only more denial. So, when I say his kids hate him- he knows its true- the only one that could tolerate that dog is perhaps some pig I know.
1. The last PCGS PR70 set on Ebay sold for almost 15K dum-dum!!! 2. I have had two more offers now approaching 10K - the answer is still a no! 3. I have spoken with multiple parties at the mint- the answer is a resounding "We have no plans- it was placed into repricing several months ago and probably will not be relisted! Stop calling, we have had hundreds of complaints and there are no immediate plans to do anything!" 4. There will be blood on the streets with this series- Moy will become a legend and when all you Obama lovers realize your dream in the next few months you will get the new mint and more communication from the mint and there will almost certainly never again be another modern rarity unless you count your silly error coins. 5. 7/8 - sorry but all the crap your spewing if far off base- you've been revealed for the nothing that you are - sub-idiot. Call your kids, apologize for being such a ... , admit the errors of your ways and please for the sake of everyone SHUT-UP! I don't care how long you've collected your coins or how much you THINK you know- you are clearly wrong, wrong, wrong! 6. When you never get your set from the mint when it isn't relisted, I hope by then you will at least apologize! Ugh- enough already!
<< <i>Well, I hate to derail this back to the original subject as have several others but I am concerned about demand. I haven't really entered into this fray (and am not going to) but have a fair amount of platinums in unc, proof and unc W from '97 when I started up through '08. So have been in it for a while.
I think the true demand by non-flippers is VERY low. Wish it was higher but just don't see the interest. I went with a friend to a large bullion dealer here in Maryland and he seemed not the least bit interested in platinums as there was very little demand and therefore few sales of ANY of the three types we now have; few sales, less profit.
Gold and silver were very different as people are gobbling them up - the rags and mags seem to confirm this as well. So there is not a lot of interest on the demand side as I was saying and even with low sales of the W uncs, there is little caring and little collecting. Perhaps the proofs have a bit more.
I think it is exciting to get low mintage coins over the years in a very precious metal but have had to be realistic: most people really do not care, and by people I mean collectors of even the other bullion coins.
I think if I was into flipping and not holding as a collector I might dump one '08 plat set for a 100% gain and look for other opportunities...If it was ten sets, maybe dump four or five because at five bases would be covered completely if the market recedes like the '06W uncs or even the vaunted '04 proof halves. >>
i could not have said it any better.
seven.... take one of those offers you got for 8 or 9k or whatever it was.
Its like I keep saying, I don't really need the money, profit or not. To own something of this rarity is exciting! I would have a hard time even at 11K- once its gone you can't get it back! The incredible rarity of this is astounding!!! Just look at the number of responses on this thread- everyone is passionate about this series now- the emotion - just look at pig and dog, they cannot believe it!!! They are upset they didn't have the chance to be a part of this and now want to denigrate the significance of this historical event! Blood in the streets I've said, Moy will be a legend I've said, this will reinvigorate the entire platinum eagles! Front page postings, debates, discussions about the mints policies, exponential gains in the price of this series- there is no limit.
just a few comments from a otherwise non-important observer....
1. seems like november 2006 all over again....did you get your 06w plats??? how much you going to sell them for??? are we going to make 500% in a weekend???
2. with all this "platinum" hype in the past 2 years....i haven't seen any new faces in the top 5 platinum proof registry set...actually have watched a couple go and not be replaced....you would think with the 50% decline in platinum you would see at least two or three new faces in the middle of the pack. that point speaks directly to demand.
3. will the 2008 series be the key....your guess is good as any...next year they may have some lower number....or in 10, 11, 12. so it seems foolish to just buy 2008....you need the whole series to make it worthwhile.
4. would i sell my 2008 4pc PR70 set (thanks mitch...sorry about your angels)....NO. is it worth $10K today ....maybe....$15K...doubt it.
5. is the USM going to bring them back....who knows...the boys in washington are doing off the wall things everyday..
I believe you said you have NGC 70's. There is a big big difference between pricing of NGC 70's & PCGS 70's, period end of that discussion.
The platinum coins will get no press if these coins come back this year or not. Only a tiny percentage of coin collectors care about the platinum coins at all.
If you go to any coin show, take a poll over 50% of the people there would likely not know the mint makes platinum coins and probably 95+% have zero interest in owning any platinum coin.
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
"4. would i sell my 2008 4pc PR70 set (thanks mitch...sorry about your angels)....NO. is it worth $10K today ....maybe....$15K...doubt it."
My pleasure. For your sake, I hope seven is right about your PCGS-PR70DCAM FS set.
Yes, too bad about those Angels. I did catch 2 sensational baseball games though when the Red Sox came to town and beat us.
I have a few dozen coins in my coin collection where the US Mint struck under 40-50 coins (repeat 40-50, not 500 or 1,000) total 125+ years ago and the coins are worth far less than $7,500/coin (some just a couple thousand dollars). I recently handled a lovely choice proof gold coin from the mid-1800's with a mintage of 25 that was worth under $10,000. So, mintage is just one piece of the puzzle. The key is DEMAND, especially long term demand. When platinum hit about $2,100/oz earlier this year, I was being delivered virtually every single MS and Proof Platinum coin out there (besides 04 proofs) at MELT. This included 06-W burnished coins with 2,500 - 3,700 mintages. So, we'll see what happens with 08 plats. Demand is what it is (the Mint didn't sell the small numbers they did by accident). Over time, the coins could very well be extremely desireable. Everyone should do there own (careful) homework. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
this may or may not be your auction but I will use to point out the dangers of sensationalizing rarity.
on ebay there is an auction that is very similar to the circumstances you have been discussing in this thread. A NGC proof set listed for $14,995, I believe the seller has misrepresented the facts and is at the very least, in jeopardy of having his auctioned pulled and at other end of the spectrum, having the coins returned (much smaller chance of that due to his unrealistic pricing).
The statement at the end of your auction about the mint having no intention about offering these again is pure uninformed speculation. It misrepresents the coins and could lead a potential buyer to beleive he is getting something that he may actually not be getting. I have copied the text from that auction below.
Text from the auction:
This is it- the new Modern King!!!! Less than 2000 of the 1oz coins even sold- how many returned!? Less than 500 4-coin sets sold- again how many returned? This is THE complete 4-coin set certified by NGC as Proof 70! The coins are ultra cameo and very difficult to get pictures as the color is blazing! You probably will never have the opportunity to pick these up so cheap! Don't let this opportunity to own this set pass you by!!!! Delivery is registered and restricted to the buyer listed. All questions answered promptly.
**** URGENT *****
Just got off phone with mint supervisor. At this time the Mint has no intention of relisting this coin. Appropriate changes have been made to pricing to reflect this development. This is the MODERN KING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, as an aside, I would like to point out an issue with the manner in which you post. Please reread every one of your posts. Perhaps you will see who really has no manners. It is almost like you are a wind up toy. Torque him and watch him go! You are a "Last Word Larry"
Regarding demand and justification for collecting the Plats, I can offer a few comments. When I started accumulating Plats, it was mostly because of the double whammy potential for both numismatic and bullion appreciation. After this recent shakeout, I believe that we are back to something along those lines. Plats are back to being the high end, low volume Modern series. (It looked for awhile like the high bullion prices couldn't help but kill the series completely). Now, we have a reprieve. It would be much better if the Mint would drop at least one variety, so that we can remain in the game for the long term. Edmond, are you listening?
For awhile, it also looked as if the bullion prices would overwhelm all other factors as platinum went to $2,500/oz.. No doubt, some attrition in both common and not-so-common dates did occur as some collectors cashed-out - a phenomenon which could tend to create havoc in the pricing hierarchy if it ever reaches critical mass.
Now it appears that we've landed back in the same spot from which the bullion rally first started. What's different? We've probably lost a few collectors who decided to throw in the towel. We've probably added a few new players as well. And for the record, I don't think that this is the last time we'll see rocketing bullion prices causing a Plat liquidation that further destroys the extant populations.
with all this "platinum" hype in the past 2 years....i haven't seen any new faces in the top 5 platinum proof registry set...actually have watched a couple go and not be replaced....you would think with the 50% decline in platinum you would see at least two or three new faces in the middle of the pack. that point speaks directly to demand
Many of gyromac's comments are telling. I really don't follow the Registry, but it does seem to me that it would provide an indicator as to the depth of the bench. And if there really aren't that many true Plat collectors out there - OH YEAH! To me, that means that even ordinary hack collections (like mine) might be notable some day.
we'll see what happens with 08 plats. Demand is what it is (the Mint didn't sell the small numbers they did by accident). Over time, the coins could very well be extremely desireable. Everyone should do there own (careful) homework.
I would also note that Mitch is no babe in the woods when it comes to Plats and his comment makes sense to me. I had that same observation in 2006 as the Burnished Plats failed to generate any interest UNTIL they started to go black and it became clear that it was too late for another run. Only then did demand materialize.
Even though I think that the 2008s will be back, I can make a prediction if they don't. If they don't come back, I would bet a Silver Eagle that Plat demand will double in 2009. Give us a major rarity that transcends all other Modern Series and you guarantee at least another 3 years of better sales volumes.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
All this entertainment aside, I do believe it's a safe bet that 2008 will be the new king in both proof and unc-w--and a flipper's paradise for a while. But as others have pointed out, demand will determine the final outcome. In the long run, I think this will be a sought-after series, but short-timers may not reap much benefit. I also think that the proofs will be more highly-prized even if the unc-w mintages are a lot lower, simply because the proofs look so much nicer. Doesn't mean I wouldn't love to have a couple of MS-70 2008 unc-ws, though!
With mintages on these where they are at this point in time, I could see raw OGP coins being more difficult to find then graded coins, especially if all the flippers are involved.
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
<< <i>With mintages on these where they are at this point in time, I could see raw OGP coins being more difficult to find then graded coins, especially if all the flippers are involved. >>
I don't think flippers are that involved with this series as were before. Perhaps speculators, but flippers are much wiser. They went after the 2008/'07 reverse ASEs
But if the coins do come back on sale I would imagine the flippers would be playing around with the coins that are available, with the knowledge that they are extremely limited if they do come back.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
<< <i>But if the coins do come back on sale I would imagine the flippers would be playing around with the coins that are available, with the knowledge that they are extremely limited if they do come back..... >>
That would be the lucky few flippers who hit the purchase button on the day they come back as I suspect these will go black very quickly. I am watching daily for their return. I have my sets already but could always use a little "flipper cash" to fund my southern gold addiction.
<< <i>But if the coins do come back on sale I would imagine the flippers would be playing around with the coins that are available, with the knowledge that they are extremely limited if they do come back..... >>
That would be the lucky few flippers who hit the purchase button on the day they come back as I suspect these will go black very quickly. I am watching daily for their return. I have my sets already but could always use a little "flipper cash" to fund my southern gold addiction. >>
As far as the 2008-W Uncirculated APEs go the coins I returned to mint in early august were poor quality with no shot whatever at MS70. I went through a number of each denomination and was only able to assemble two 4 coin sets worth keeping.
I'm sure the mint wants to recycle all those early august rejects but don't buy them looking for gem MS70s. You would likely be disappointed.
Low mintage APE's sell just as well in OGP. You just have to know the market and not hold out for too high a price. Remember.... Any profit is good profit.
<< <i>I've said the same thing- talked with 3 people at public affairs- no plans. Course, I get attacked when I say it. Can anyone say, "Fanatics!"? >>
Fanaticism is an emotion of being filled with excessive, uncritical zeal, with an obsessive enthusiasm for a pastime or hobby. According to Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". By either description the fanatic displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.
A fanatic differs from a crank, in that a crank is defined as a person who holds a position or opinion which is so far from the norm as to appear ludicrous and/or provably wrong
"Crank" is a pejorative term for a person who either holds some belief which the vast majority of his contemporaries would consider false, is eccentric (especially someone who is unduly zealous), or is just simply bad-tempered. The term implies that a "cranky" belief is so wildly at variance with some commonly accepted truth as to be ludicrous, and arguing with the crank is useless, because he will invariably dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict his cranky belief.
Common synonyms for "crank" include kook and crackpot. But with the word crank, it differs from the fanatic in that the subject of the fanatic's obsession is not necessarily widely regarded as wrong, or a "fringe" belief.
Not to mention names so won't but one thing I have never understood is that if a given person has a single coin or set that is no big deal to them, then how is it a big deal to them? This would be a reference to the lively repartee we have had over this NGC Proof 70 set obviously. I mean I have made some great buys, even phenomenal (sp?), but the next week basically forgotten them and gone on to the next coin adventure. Congrats on a good score, now time to walk softly and carry a big stick...
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Pt is $881 on Kitco. Will this be good for APE interest? Bad if you don't have your 2008's? ...and bad if you're sittin' on 2004 APEs? Even though the metal price has dropped, the APE prices (other than the 2004s) have been going up over the last couple of weeks.
If they don't plan to put them back on sale, why don't they simply label them as no longer available? I believe they do intend to put them back up, but whether they do or not is another story.
<< <i>If they don't plan to put them back on sale, why don't they simply label them as no longer available? I believe they do intend to put them back up, but whether they do or not is another story. >>
But the real question is... if they are going to put them back on sale, why haven't they yet? What are they waiting for? Holding inventory costs money and ties up capital. For this reason, I say the mint is done.
More than likely they are saving them for the Christmas season and can evalute the new price at that time. I doubt they have many on hand and won't be producing more so there's no rush.
<< <i>If they don't plan to put them back on sale, why don't they simply label them as no longer available? I believe they do intend to put them back up, but whether they do or not is another story. >>
I believe that the Mint doesn't know what it will do. If Pt goes back up to >$1800, they'll bring them back. If it doesn't get there by the end of the year, I think they'll be gone. Just a guess...I can't possibly know what they don't know!
It is days like today with 10% price swings in spot Platinum prices that must give the mint marketing guys pause before they decide to relist APEs for sale with a 'No questions asked' return policy.
I think we may not see them relisted until that return policy is charged.
You sure can't buy them from Kitco, Monex or your B&M with a 30 day return.
Comments
Raven - Yes, a few dealers do stock it. I have a number of 2008 sets in stock as I produced PR70DC 2008 Platinum coins for customers (two or three of the #1 Plat sets already have complete PR70DC 2008 Plat coins from me). None of the 69's are for sale right now as they will go into 1997-2008 complete date runs I am assembling. Obviously, I will lose a great deal of money if the Mint reoffers the 2008 coins, but, it would not matter to me either way. In fact, I hope the Mint reoffers the coins for the collectors' sake. Wondercoin
<< <i>Wow, coinhog is as happy as a pig in ***t! Right at home it seem...
>>
Just laughing at you!!!
<< <i>Wow, coinhog is as happy as a pig in ***t! Right at home it seem...
Ok, so wondercoin - they are listed and I have had 3 under the table offers in the range of $8-9K for the set. When 2009 comes along and the coins aren't for sale- watch them jump to over 30K for that set! This isn't some stupid commemerative- this is the real deal and you missed out. You collectors check out ebay - you will see what this set is commanding- have no doubts! >>
If I were you, I wouldn't sell now. I would hold out for at least couple of years. At least until 2010-2012. Thats when I would sell!!!! Unless of course you couldn't afford to play in this game in the first palce and you need to get out.
Check it out. Do some research. With all of this modern bullion, you shouldn't sell during the initial spike. The various issues just keep getting more and more popular as time goes on. The longer you hold, the higher it goes. Just look at the various 2006 W offerings in the various metal. To The Moon!!!! Hold Hold Hold. Thats my advice to you. I am sure 7over8, kealesdad, wondercoin, buffhunter and all the others will agree with me in this particular instance.. You should hold these as long as possible to get the highest price. Right guys. Tell him, Hold Hold Hold. Give him the advice he needs. LOL.
<< <i>Pig, it sounds like you want to be nice- maybe you were reminded of your manners. You should apologize for being rude. But, like 7/8 you will probably be stubborn and rude. There is a nice way to say things and we shouldn't have to have the manner police out here in full patrol. Everyone should be able to enjoy the hobby and the collective wisdom here without such insult. I look forward to you re-establishing your honor here. >>
I certainly wasn't reminded of my manners by you. Read over your attack posts on 7/8. Saying his kids hate him. c'mon. Grow up! If you knew anything about the Precious metals collectible market, you would know that my most recent post was terrible advice. Just look at the various pricing of all of the 2006 W offerings. They shot up after the initial release and NOW ONLY COMMAND A FRACTION OF THEIR HIGHER PRICES.
My honor is fine here.
edited for spelling and to take out the name calling where I called Seven an idiot.
I really got to ask, what exactly is your problem? it is the same people in all the platinum threads and there is never any your mama type jokes in any of them until you decided it was needed.....
Alot of the people in the platinum threads have piles of platinum coins from this and many other years and just does not talk about what they have.
I agree there is NO NEED for personal attacks. Though, someone here awhile sees a new user and discounts or wildly insults that member. So, Raven, don't be a birdbrain, look back, pig and 78 both expressed some insulting unprovoked comments that were disingenuous and uncalled for! Did I one-up them, yes I confess I did but I don't need a boob or a pig insulting me! So, I apologize for my sharp comments back, which is much more than either one of them will ever do! In fact, I predict another juvenile response from both of them.
Second, both were wrong- I have 3 offers on my set and it isn't going to ANYONE for less than 11K. If you can find a better deal- let me know- but you won't! The set has little chance of being offered and I agree that the market for that series is limited- but if the status quo is maintained this is the KING! And there is no denying it.
7
As for the 3 under-the-table offers of 8-9k for a set, was that uncirculated ws or proofs? just curious.
Assuming that no more sets are offered, that seems like a pretty good price.
I missed out on ordering the W uncirculateds, but did pick up 2 Proof sets and 5 $25s in early May. They're still in the sealed package from the Mint, so should be FS eligible.
I've just been sitting on them... haven't given them much thought either way since then.
They are for the ngc70 proofs, and I agree. Paradoxically I think the depressed price of platinum will cause greater interest in this set over time, this is in "respectful" disagreement to coinhogs perspective.
You're basically playing roulette at this point. You doubled up once. You can take your profit now, or let it ride. You can call the decision wise or foolish depending on the result of the next spin of the wheel, but it's a gamble either way.
Sometimes it can be a good move to take a quick profit while interest is high.
There are plenty of examples of where holding for the long term wasn't the most profitable course of action. 1950-d nickels are a good example. Some coins start out hot, and then interest dies off. Check out 2006 w burnished silver eagles. They hit $110+ within a few months of close of sales, and now they've gone cold.
It's hard to say if and when low mintage platinums will get a moment in the sun, or how long that moment will last.
The biggest problem for the 2008s is that they were priced so high to begin with. The issue price was effectively over $2300/ounce. With platinum dropping to $1000 an ounce, for now any upside over issue price will be based primarily on numismatic, not bullion, value. A lot of the potential upside was priced in at the outset, and the sharp decline in melt value cannot be ignored.
Demand is very uncertain right now -- indeed, pretty much everything is uncertain right now-- and there is always the chance the Mint could reopen sales and flood the market with whatever they have in stock.
If the gloom-and-doom crowd are wrong, and the recent market drop to 8500 is more like October 1987 than October 1929, I think 10k a set is within reason; the 2004 proofs were pulling in something around $8,000 a set with higher mintage numbers while platinum was about $1,000 an ounce. There's certainly precedent for that kind of valuation; albeit at a time when credit was loose, housing was high, and there was a stronger platinum collector base.
Really, assuming for now that supply is set (meaning the Mint has issued all that it will -- and it's just an assumption, no way of knowing at this point) the big unknown is demand. Offers in the 8-9k range are an indicator that demand does exist, and establishes a price point for those potential buyers -- but the depth of that demand is still unknown. Is the demand pool shallow or deep? There could just be 3 buyers out there who missed out and have the money to purchase... is the demand 3 deep? Or is there a pool of buyers deep enough to maintain a high price?
A few years ago, I never thought that we'd see a day when the 2004 proofs might be vulnerable. At the beginning of the year, I never thought we'd see a day when the 2006 ws might be vulnerable.
In a rational world, this wouldn't happen. Of course, we aren't in a rational world, we are in the Mint's world; we are subject to the whims of an irrational monopoly.
As to the offers on your set, in my opinion 8-9k for an NGC 70 set certainly merits consideration. NGC PF70s don't command as much premium as PCGS PF70s, and often trade at or slightly above PCGS PF69 levels. If your primary reason for the purchase was speculation, I'd advise selling and taking a quick 100% profit. There aren't too many times in life you can double your money in a few months, and the key to a sale is that the buyer has to believe there is upside in it for him as well. These certainly could end up being $11,000 or more a set; no doubt whoever is offering $8-9k believes that is possible.
If your primary reason for the purchase was as a collector, there's nothing wrong with holding on to the set, as long as you can be comfortable with the fact that it might not increase in value from here. There's no right or wrong choice.
It's impossible to know where these are going to head; factors at play include (1) will Mint release more? (2) will platinum rise or fall? (3) will the number of platinum collectors increase or decrease? (4) will the dollar be devalued such that price inflation takes place? We'll know the answer to #1 sometime in the next couple of months.
Platinum coins on the other hand continue to have little mintages (do all proof coins over all years equal the 2008 SAE Proof coin?) with next to know recognition by the general collecting public.....
The 2008/2007 silver eagle took a long time to get out into the general collecting knowledge (I went to a few shops looking for one and the dealers did not know what I was talking about).
Those of us that are platinum collectors, be it 1/10 oz coins or all potential offering are few in number and the rise in platinum surely knocked some of the collectors that could not stomach the prices to get out.
The general price of the coins is of some interest to me, but I have the coins in my collection with no interest in selling them. One day at some point they will have the sunlight shining on them and we will all be smiling.....
You're just an idiot, absolutely no knowledge of the market, diarrhea of the mouth, newbie that does not want to even entertain the wisdom of many on this thread like CoinHog, Raven, etc etc etc.
Get out the duct tape, tie your hands behind your back and LISTEN.
For one, you called the US Mint and talked to a Supervisor who has as absolutely no knowledge about the product they are selling, better yet - that sales are suspended and when these items will be back. Did you ever think to call a contact at the Office of Public Affairs......oh sorry, you had no idea, and you dont know anyone there either. What a surprise.
The UNC-W Platinum will be re-offered this year for much lower prices. There is lots of remaining stock to sell. Confirmed with the right office.
The Fall Catalog should have the UNC-W PLAT offering included in it. If not, prior to Christmas.......at least 3/4 weeks prior to Christmas.
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting FS numbers but remember there may be more out there that remain unopened in original
shipping boxes eligible for FS submission. >>
Rather than take a chance on PCGS giving you a PR70, you'd probably be better off selling the unopened box. I don't see many more 2008 FS PR70s. Only 1% of the coins sold are PR70 and only ~30% of those submitted have come back PR70 (and most of those are coins that, after visual review, were considered 70s). If you send them to PCGS, sight unseen, that % drops considerably. Remember the, "we won't do FS, we will do FS" hiccup? I'd bet that a few shipping boxes were opened...
Bottom line, this year has been the perfect storm for FS plats. The 2008 Proof Pt Eagles in FS are scarce-- That we already know without waiting to see if the Mint will sell more. >>
Hehehe, My 2008 plats in MS70, PR70DC First Strike and 2008w in MS70FS are all looking better, day by day.
I think the true demand by non-flippers is VERY low. Wish it was higher but just don't see the interest. I went with a friend to a large bullion dealer here in Maryland and he seemed not the least bit interested in platinums as there was very little demand and therefore few sales of ANY of the three types we now have; few sales, less profit.
Gold and silver were very different as people are gobbling them up - the rags and mags seem to confirm this as well. So there is not a lot of interest on the demand side as I was saying and even with low sales of the W uncs, there is little caring and little collecting. Perhaps the proofs have a bit more.
I think it is exciting to get low mintage coins over the years in a very precious metal but have had to be realistic: most people really do not care, and by people I mean collectors of even the other bullion coins.
I think if I was into flipping and not holding as a collector I might dump one '08 plat set for a 100% gain and look for other opportunities...If it was ten sets, maybe dump four or five because at five bases would be covered completely if the market recedes like the '06W uncs or even the vaunted '04 proof halves.
Well, just Love coins, period.
1. The last PCGS PR70 set on Ebay sold for almost 15K dum-dum!!!
2. I have had two more offers now approaching 10K - the answer is still a no!
3. I have spoken with multiple parties at the mint- the answer is a resounding "We have no plans- it was placed into repricing several months ago and probably will not be relisted! Stop calling, we have had hundreds of complaints and there are no immediate plans to do anything!"
4. There will be blood on the streets with this series- Moy will become a legend and when all you Obama lovers realize your dream in the next few months you will get the new mint and more communication from the mint and there will almost certainly never again be another modern rarity unless you count your silly error coins.
5. 7/8 - sorry but all the crap your spewing if far off base- you've been revealed for the nothing that you are - sub-idiot. Call your kids, apologize for being such a ... , admit the errors of your ways and please for the sake of everyone SHUT-UP! I don't care how long you've collected your coins or how much you THINK you know- you are clearly wrong, wrong, wrong!
6. When you never get your set from the mint when it isn't relisted, I hope by then you will at least apologize! Ugh- enough already!
<< <i>Well, I hate to derail this back to the original subject as have several others but I am concerned about demand. I haven't really entered into this fray (and am not going to) but have a fair amount of platinums in unc, proof and unc W from '97 when I started up through '08. So have been in it for a while.
I think the true demand by non-flippers is VERY low. Wish it was higher but just don't see the interest. I went with a friend to a large bullion dealer here in Maryland and he seemed not the least bit interested in platinums as there was very little demand and therefore few sales of ANY of the three types we now have; few sales, less profit.
Gold and silver were very different as people are gobbling them up - the rags and mags seem to confirm this as well. So there is not a lot of interest on the demand side as I was saying and even with low sales of the W uncs, there is little caring and little collecting. Perhaps the proofs have a bit more.
I think it is exciting to get low mintage coins over the years in a very precious metal but have had to be realistic: most people really do not care, and by people I mean collectors of even the other bullion coins.
I think if I was into flipping and not holding as a collector I might dump one '08 plat set for a 100% gain and look for other opportunities...If it was ten sets, maybe dump four or five because at five bases would be covered completely if the market recedes like the '06W uncs or even the vaunted '04 proof halves. >>
i could not have said it any better.
seven.... take one of those offers you got for 8 or 9k or whatever it was.
feel free to trash my opinion too.
we need the entertainment
HE>I
Its like I keep saying, I don't really need the money, profit or not. To own something of this rarity is exciting! I would have a hard time even at 11K- once its gone you can't get it back! The incredible rarity of this is astounding!!! Just look at the number of responses on this thread- everyone is passionate about this series now- the emotion - just look at pig and dog, they cannot believe it!!! They are upset they didn't have the chance to be a part of this and now want to denigrate the significance of this historical event! Blood in the streets I've said, Moy will be a legend I've said, this will reinvigorate the entire platinum eagles! Front page postings, debates, discussions about the mints policies, exponential gains in the price of this series- there is no limit.
THIS WILL NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This 2008 PLATINUM EAGLE SERIES IS
K I N G !
K I N G !
K I N G !
K I N G !
LONG LIVE THE KING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hail to Moy!
Hail the 2008 Platinum Eagle!
-7-
1. seems like november 2006 all over again....did you get your 06w plats??? how much you going to sell them for??? are we going to make 500% in a weekend???
2. with all this "platinum" hype in the past 2 years....i haven't seen any new faces in the top 5 platinum proof registry set...actually have watched a couple go and not be replaced....you would think with the 50% decline in platinum you would see at least two or three new faces in the middle of the pack. that point speaks directly to demand.
3. will the 2008 series be the key....your guess is good as any...next year they may have some lower number....or in 10, 11, 12. so it seems foolish to just buy 2008....you need the whole series to make it worthwhile.
4. would i sell my 2008 4pc PR70 set (thanks mitch...sorry about your angels)....NO. is it worth $10K today ....maybe....$15K...doubt it.
5. is the USM going to bring them back....who knows...the boys in washington are doing off the wall things everyday..
JMHO
gyros
I believe you said you have NGC 70's. There is a big big difference between pricing of NGC 70's & PCGS 70's, period end of that discussion.
The platinum coins will get no press if these coins come back this year or not. Only a tiny percentage of coin collectors care about the platinum coins at all.
If you go to any coin show, take a poll over 50% of the people there would likely not know the mint makes platinum coins and probably 95+% have zero interest in owning any platinum coin.
My pleasure. For your sake, I hope seven is right about your PCGS-PR70DCAM FS set.
Yes, too bad about those Angels. I did catch 2 sensational baseball games though when the Red Sox came to town and beat us.
I have a few dozen coins in my coin collection where the US Mint struck under 40-50 coins (repeat 40-50, not 500 or 1,000) total 125+ years ago and the coins are worth far less than $7,500/coin (some just a couple thousand dollars). I recently handled a lovely choice proof gold coin from the mid-1800's with a mintage of 25 that was worth under $10,000. So, mintage is just one piece of the puzzle. The key is DEMAND, especially long term demand. When platinum hit about $2,100/oz earlier this year, I was being delivered virtually every single MS and Proof Platinum coin out there (besides 04 proofs) at MELT. This included 06-W burnished coins with 2,500 - 3,700 mintages. So, we'll see what happens with 08 plats. Demand is what it is (the Mint didn't sell the small numbers they did by accident). Over time, the coins could very well be extremely desireable. Everyone should do there own (careful) homework. Wondercoin
this may or may not be your auction but I will use to point out the dangers of sensationalizing rarity.
on ebay there is an auction that is very similar to the circumstances you have been discussing in this thread. A NGC proof set listed for $14,995, I believe the seller has misrepresented the facts and is at the very least, in jeopardy of having his auctioned pulled and at other end of the spectrum, having the coins returned (much smaller chance of that due to his unrealistic pricing).
The statement at the end of your auction about the mint having no intention about offering these again is pure uninformed speculation. It misrepresents the coins and could lead a potential buyer to beleive he is getting something that he may actually not be getting. I have copied the text from that auction below.
Text from the auction:
This is it- the new Modern King!!!! Less than 2000 of the 1oz coins even sold- how many returned!? Less than 500 4-coin sets sold- again how many returned? This is THE complete 4-coin set certified by NGC as Proof 70! The coins are ultra cameo and very difficult to get pictures as the color is blazing! You probably will never have the opportunity to pick these up so cheap! Don't let this opportunity to own this set pass you by!!!! Delivery is registered and restricted to the buyer listed. All questions answered promptly.
**** URGENT *****
Just got off phone with mint supervisor. At this time the Mint has no intention of relisting this coin. Appropriate changes have been made to pricing to reflect this development. This is the MODERN KING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, as an aside, I would like to point out an issue with the manner in which you post. Please reread every one of your posts. Perhaps you will see who really has no manners. It is almost like you are a wind up toy. Torque him and watch him go! You are a "Last Word Larry"
I dub you ----------
"Last Word Larry"
Prove me wrong..... don't respond
For awhile, it also looked as if the bullion prices would overwhelm all other factors as platinum went to $2,500/oz.. No doubt, some attrition in both common and not-so-common dates did occur as some collectors cashed-out - a phenomenon which could tend to create havoc in the pricing hierarchy if it ever reaches critical mass.
Now it appears that we've landed back in the same spot from which the bullion rally first started. What's different? We've probably lost a few collectors who decided to throw in the towel. We've probably added a few new players as well. And for the record, I don't think that this is the last time we'll see rocketing bullion prices causing a Plat liquidation that further destroys the extant populations.
with all this "platinum" hype in the past 2 years....i haven't seen any new faces in the top 5 platinum proof registry set...actually have watched a couple go and not be replaced....you would think with the 50% decline in platinum you would see at least two or three new faces in the middle of the pack. that point speaks directly to demand
Many of gyromac's comments are telling. I really don't follow the Registry, but it does seem to me that it would provide an indicator as to the depth of the bench. And if there really aren't that many true Plat collectors out there - OH YEAH! To me, that means that even ordinary hack collections (like mine) might be notable some day.
we'll see what happens with 08 plats. Demand is what it is (the Mint didn't sell the small numbers they did by accident). Over time, the coins could very well be extremely desireable. Everyone should do there own (careful) homework.
I would also note that Mitch is no babe in the woods when it comes to Plats and his comment makes sense to me. I had that same observation in 2006 as the Burnished Plats failed to generate any interest UNTIL they started to go black and it became clear that it was too late for another run. Only then did demand materialize.
Even though I think that the 2008s will be back, I can make a prediction if they don't. If they don't come back, I would bet a Silver Eagle that Plat demand will double in 2009. Give us a major rarity that transcends all other Modern Series and you guarantee at least another 3 years of better sales volumes.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>With mintages on these where they are at this point in time, I could see raw OGP coins being more difficult to find then graded coins, especially if all the flippers are involved. >>
I don't think flippers are that involved with this series as were before. Perhaps speculators, but flippers are much wiser. They went after the 2008/'07 reverse ASEs
HE>I
<< <i>But if the coins do come back on sale I would imagine the flippers would be playing around with the coins that are available, with the knowledge that they are extremely limited if they do come back..... >>
That would be the lucky few flippers who hit the purchase button on the day they come back as I suspect these will go black very quickly. I am watching daily for their return. I have my sets already but could always use a little "flipper cash" to fund my southern gold addiction.
<< <i>
<< <i>But if the coins do come back on sale I would imagine the flippers would be playing around with the coins that are available, with the knowledge that they are extremely limited if they do come back..... >>
That would be the lucky few flippers who hit the purchase button on the day they come back as I suspect these will go black very quickly. I am watching daily for their return. I have my sets already but could always use a little "flipper cash" to fund my southern gold addiction.
Hey, leave some for us!
I went through a number of each denomination and was only able to assemble two 4 coin sets worth keeping.
I'm sure the mint wants to recycle all those early august rejects but don't buy them looking for gem MS70s.
You would likely be disappointed.
There is logic in it either way.
For all we know they are melted already and minted into 1 oz coins and in investor hands right now.
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>I've said the same thing- talked with 3 people at public affairs- no plans. Course, I get attacked when I say it. Can anyone say, "Fanatics!"? >>
Fanaticism is an emotion of being filled with excessive, uncritical zeal, with an obsessive enthusiasm for a pastime or hobby. According to Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". By either description the fanatic displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions.
A fanatic differs from a crank, in that a crank is defined as a person who holds a position or opinion which is so far from the norm as to appear ludicrous and/or provably wrong
"Crank" is a pejorative term for a person who either holds some belief which the vast majority of his contemporaries would consider false, is eccentric (especially someone who is unduly zealous), or is just simply bad-tempered. The term implies that a "cranky" belief is so wildly at variance with some commonly accepted truth as to be ludicrous, and arguing with the crank is useless, because he will invariably dismiss all evidence or arguments which contradict his cranky belief.
Common synonyms for "crank" include kook and crackpot. But with the word crank, it differs from the fanatic in that the subject of the fanatic's obsession is not necessarily widely regarded as wrong, or a "fringe" belief.
Can anyone say, "Crank"
lifted from Wikipediia
Not to mention names so won't but one thing I have never understood is that if a given person has a single coin or set that is no big deal to them, then how is it a big deal to them? This would be a reference to the lively repartee we have had over this NGC Proof 70 set obviously. I mean I have made some great buys, even phenomenal (sp?), but the next week basically forgotten them and gone on to the next coin adventure. Congrats on a good score, now time to walk softly and carry a big stick...
Well, just Love coins, period.
<< <i>If they don't plan to put them back on sale, why don't they simply label them as no longer available? I believe they do intend to put them back up, but whether they do or not is another story. >>
But the real question is... if they are going to put them back on sale, why haven't they yet? What are they waiting for? Holding inventory costs money and ties up capital. For this reason, I say the mint is done.
<< <i>If they don't plan to put them back on sale, why don't they simply label them as no longer available? I believe they do intend to put them back up, but whether they do or not is another story. >>
I believe that the Mint doesn't know what it will do. If Pt goes back up to >$1800, they'll bring them back. If it doesn't get there by the end of the year, I think they'll be gone. Just a guess...I can't possibly know what they don't know!
I think we may not see them relisted until that return policy is charged.
You sure can't buy them from Kitco, Monex or your B&M with a 30 day return.