<< <i>Michael White Office of Public Affairs (202) 354-7222
Call Michael White at the US Mint and ask him: Unless Eric has an inside informant, I have to go with this guy. >>
I talk to Michael from time to time. But I also talk to others. The mint would like to put the coins back up for sale at some point. Is this a certainty...............NO..................It just depends on who you talk to. I think there is better than 50 percent chance they will come back up prior to the 2009 proofs coming out next year. If you don't want to take the risk by all means pick up your missing coins on the open market now. If you want to play the odds and buy them cheaper with some chance of no coins then wait. I have most of what I need so I am not in a big hurry to chase them..
The 2008-W UNC PLATS will be back. There is NO doubt in my mind. Probably in time for the Holiday catalog in November. Of course, this is my opinion.
I would not chase crazy high prices now.
I know of small groups of investors that bought five figure $ amounts of all sizes of the 08W UNC's and submissions produced about a 35% grade thru rate at MS70, the rest were apparently returned to the USM.
A number of forum members speak of returns being shipped EXPRESS mail back to ensure they made it before the 30 day cutoff because of the severe drop in PLAT pricing - at that time dropping from about 2100 to 1500oz.
As soon as the 30 day window expired (meaning loads of returns showed up in Memphis), these coins were pulled and did not return as of this date.
My opinion is that the initial and only production run of these coins will be low, how low is the question......
If this issue indeed has tiny mintages, let's assume below 2,000 for all coins larger than the 1/10 oz and less than 3,000 for the 1/10 oz - this will certainly de-thrown the 06-W PLAT UNC's from their position as King.
As for First Strike commanding rediculously higher prices in a minute mintage scenario, my opinion is like many other knowledgable members on this board, that FS will not command a big spread over NON-FS coins. In fact, we know that for seriously low mintage coins, even raw ungraded coins in the early days after sell-out command much higher prices than subjecting yourself to long wait times for grading and return of your coins to market them.
Compare this with the current reported sales numbers (which in itself is suspect, as they haven't moved since the 8/19 issue of NN, which I believe is 2 weeks in arrears and do not appear to even be adjusted for the tidalwave of returns in and around 8/5-8/10) of -
4 coin sets - 453 1 oz - 146 1/2 oz - 126 1/4 oz - 198 1/10 oz - 712
When the remaining coins return to be sold, I believe that they will sell out the small quantities in short order.
<< <i>The 2008-W UNC PLATS will be back. There is NO doubt in my mind. Probably in time for the Holiday catalog in November. Of course, this is my opinion.
I would not chase crazy high prices now.
I know of small groups of investors that bought five figure $ amounts of all sizes of the 08W UNC's and submissions produced about a 35% grade thru rate at MS70, the rest were apparently returned to the USM.
A number of forum members speak of returns being shipped EXPRESS mail back to ensure they made it before the 30 day cutoff because of the severe drop in PLAT pricing - at that time dropping from about 2100 to 1500oz.
As soon as the 30 day window expired (meaning loads of returns showed up in Memphis), these coins were pulled and did not return as of this date.
My opinion is that the initial and only production run of these coins will be low, how low is the question......
If this issue indeed has tiny mintages, let's assume below 2,000 for all coins larger than the 1/10 oz and less than 3,000 for the 1/10 oz - this will certainly de-thrown the 06-W PLAT UNC's from their position as King.
As for First Strike commanding rediculously higher prices in a minute mintage scenario, my opinion is like many other knowledgable members on this board, that FS will not command a big spread over NON-FS coins. In fact, we know that for seriously low mintage coins, even raw ungraded coins in the early days after sell-out command much higher prices than subjecting yourself to long wait times for grading and return of your coins to market them.
Compare this with the current reported sales numbers (which in itself is suspect, as they haven't moved since the 8/19 issue of NN, which I believe is 2 weeks in arrears and do not appear to even be adjusted for the tidalwave of returns in and around 8/5-8/10) of -
4 coin sets - 453 1 oz - 146 1/2 oz - 126 1/4 oz - 198 1/10 oz - 712
When the remaining coins return to be sold, I believe that they will sell out the small quantities in short order. >>
Thanks for the sales numbers! Does Numismatic News update their figures to reflect returns?
Here is some totally speculative food for thought – What if the Mint decided that the quality of the entire run was not up to par, based on the number of collector returns? Then what?
What is the Mint’s official policy on disposition of retuned coins? I’ve emailed the Mint this question in the past, but never received a reply.
Thanks for the sales numbers! Does Numismatic News update their figures to reflect returns?
Yes, NN does include returns in their reporting, as long as the Mint tells them, they report it.
As soon as the 30 day window expired (meaning loads of returns showed up in Memphis), these coins were pulled and did not return as of this date.
Hmmmmm. Interesting.........
Here is some totally speculative food for thought – What if the Mint decided that the quality of the entire run was not up to par, based on the number of collector returns? Then what?
What is the Mint’s official policy on disposition of retuned coins? I’ve emailed the Mint this question in the past, but never received a reply.
So, maybe the Mint is changing it's policy towards returns. And maybe they are not recycling the returned coins. Maybe the Plat Program has them re-thinking how their quality and return policy are "interrelated" somehow.........
Last year, I recieved Platinum coins that were either very poorly packaged by the Mint, or they were someone's rejected coins, and were resold by the Mint without ANY inspection. Last year, I returned several Burnished sets for replacements, and never really got coins that didn't look "picked over".
This year, I bit the bullet and bought early. Problem solved.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
So, if the Mint sells returned APEs (and doesn't press anymore for 2008), we can assume that when/if they start selling again the quality is not likely to be PCGS 70???
So, if the Mint sells returned APEs (and doesn't press anymore for 2008), we can assume that when/if they start selling again the quality is not likely to be PCGS 70???
The Mint has never admitted to selling re-treads. My experience leads me to question if that's the case.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< <i>The 2008-W UNC PLATS will be back. There is NO doubt in my mind. Probably in time for the Holiday catalog in November. Of course, this is my opinion. >>
Mine is that they are finished. I'm happily sitting on one of the less than 10, $10. First Strike MS 70's.
<< <i>So, if the Mint sells returned APEs (and doesn't press anymore for 2008), we can assume that when/if they start selling again the quality is not likely to be PCGS 70???
The Mint has never admitted to selling re-treads. My experience leads me to question if that's the case. >>
There is no question that they resold the '08 ASEs that were returned when everyone ordered tons looking for the '08 w/rev. of '07 errors. Anyone, such as myself, who ordered these things can tell you that they clearly just sent out the returns.
<< <i>they definitely re-sell returned coins, unless they are visibly and reported damaged.
not one expert on modern PLATS out there expects that these are finished and will not return
the question is when they WILL return, and for how long....
one thing is for certain, with platinum spot in the low 900's, they will be priced alot cheaper!!!!! >>
The one thing that not one expert has answered is why plats have not been placed back on the market yet. The mint is in the business of selling coins, not playing games. The mint is not afraid of charging high premiums. There is no reason why they should not be on the market right now if it is the intent of the mint to bring them back. The absence of plats at this point means they are done.
<< <i>they definitely re-sell returned coins, unless they are visibly and reported damaged.
not one expert on modern PLATS out there expects that these are finished and will not return
the question is when they WILL return, and for how long....
one thing is for certain, with platinum spot in the low 900's, they will be priced alot cheaper!!!!! >>
The one thing that not one expert has answered is why plats have not been placed back on the market yet. The mint is in the business of selling coins, not playing games. The mint is not afraid of charging high premiums. There is no reason why they should not be on the market right now if it is the intent of the mint to bring them back. The absence of plats at this point means they are done. >>
Pretty much my thoughts. There will be returns sold around XMAS but that will, if at all, be the total market.
Absolutely DISAGREE with your statement that PLATS are DONE. You are fooling yourself into believing the USM has produced less than 1000 coins of most denoms in the UNC-W series......this is very very very UNLIKELY.....probably as close to ZERO percent chance.
This situation has happened before, maybe for not such a long lapse of time, but keep in mind that the USM looks at moving average spot prices to reprice their products - and the stability of the pricing.
They are not in the business of destroying coins either, and the sales numbers do not even reflect the returns for the first two weeks in August - they haven't moved.
You can bet your last dollar they WILL BE BACK ON SALE, most likely for the Holiday catalog, if not sooner.
<< <i>You can bet your last dollar they WILL BE BACK ON SALE, most likely for the Holiday catalog, if not sooner. >>
================================================ IMHO, the mint ought to bring them back at the original issue price!! This would help protect the original purchasers and also give any rarity speculator a chance to collect (not flip) these coins. This might also increase the interest of any future platinum programs the mint has planned. - instead of probably killing any interest of future platinum issues.
As we get closer to year end the likelyhood of a second run of Platinum MS or PR eagles decreases. Wish I knew the size of that initial run...............
<< <i>A call to the USM Office of Public Affairs revealed........
" A date has not yet been set for the re-offering of 2008-W Platinum Coins "
so, keep your eyes open for any announcement, as I believe they will quickly sell-out once re-offered. >>
Or another translation may be "we are going to sell any more of them. The platinum market has been to volatile and we have other things to sell and be concerned about."
Buy early, grade early or, strongly, risk being left out.
<< <i>You can bet your last dollar they WILL BE BACK ON SALE, most likely for the Holiday catalog, if not sooner. >>
================================================ IMHO, the mint ought to bring them back at the original issue price!! This would help protect the original purchasers and also give any rarity speculator a chance to collect (not flip) these coins. This might also increase the interest of any future platinum programs the mint has planned. - instead of probably killing any interest of future platinum issues.
Just my opinion!
SoundPoint >>
If they come back, which I seriously doubt, I think they will be priced at a point equal to the highest price they've been listed at this year precisely in fairness to those who purchased at that time.
I don't have any sympathy for anyone who played a wait and see game, anticipating lower prices, at any point after the first immediate issue.
I believe you will see a return of the 2008 Platinum Eagles - on EBAY ! Backdoor sales? NO WAY man, that would be dead wrong. Of course they will let a few slip out the front door at the last highest offering price, in an attempt to keep up appearances, and these few coins will be eagerly snatched up - fast.
Remember the Platinum Proofs of 2004? Lots of buyer resistance to a steep price increase. High market values for those 2004's inspired very heavy ordering in the next few years. With a low mintage for 2008, how inspired will ordering be for 2009? I'm thinking even at a hefty premium over spot, the '09's will sell very well.
Looks to me like there is incentive for the Mint to keep '08 numbers low.
<< <i>As we get closer to year end the likelyhood of a second run of Platinum MS or PR eagles decreases. Wish I knew the size of that initial run............... >>
The chances of a second run have already went away I believe.....
Collection under construction: VG Barber Quarters & Halves
<< <i>Similarly, the Mint said that all denominations for American Eagle platinum bullion coins were depleted last week, and it would halt production for the rest of the year once the remaining inventory was depleted. >>
I don't know if this applies to proof or -w, but either way, the mint sounds like they are done for the year.
>2008 will be the lowest pop ever. >The Mint is more likely to continue selling unc-w's than proofs. >The quality of the remaining unsold coins is not likely to yield many PR70DCAMs (because of returns). >FYI: The Mint dollar-cost-averages their bullion and routinely returns unsold coins to their blanks supplier. >2004 and 2007 sales are not that different, but 2004 prices are 100% higher! >2004 prices will decline quickly--sell now! >2007 will increase, buy now. >The Mint is not nearly as concerned with APE pricing & 2008 APE sales figures as we are. >The return policy will be more restrictive in 2009. >Pt prices will rebound with the economy (auto sales); therefore, 2009 will be another up/down year. >"Buy early" is a wise strategy with the PMs. >You get a one week advanced notice of repricing from the Federal Register--nothing yet... >Last, my guesses are only guesses! Nobody really knows...
I've read differing accounts about platinum's rarity. However, if you say 10x gold, $10,000 an ounce makes the $10 APE worth $1,000 for the metal content alone.
I was not into this stuff yet when the '06 W Plat. UNCS were sold. I hear that they ended abruptly, hence the low pops. For those of you where were into this stuff then, when The Mint stopped selling '06 W plat uncs, did they pull them saying that they would be sold later, or did they pull them and say that they were done. What were folks told when the '06 w plat uncs were pulled in late '06?
IIRC the 06 W UNC's came in to being in October which was rather late but the first year. There was little interest in them until well into November when the 1/10 ounce went black. Talk on this borad started with everyone buying them, soon they were all black by late November. There really wasn't any time to produce anymore.
That being the first year and produced late caused these mintage to be low. That's not the case this year but the crazy PM prices seems like it could very well have the same effect. I think they have a good chace to come back but when the the present batches are sold out that's it since they have moved on to the 09's and all the holidays come in November/December and employees will be taking a lot of vacations. It doesn't appear that they were able to sell out the first batch due to the high prices of PM's and then the drop by half.
MY recollection of the 06 plats was nothing like this years goings on. In 06 I didnt even hear about them until November when a board member (eric) stated that these were low mintage and close to a sell out.
All heck broke loose and a lot of us got in on them and bought them up. Then they slowely become "unavailable" until all shipments stopped. I had orders for more that never were shipped, but I did get a notice in the mail a couple of months later that they were sold out.
the 08 deal is no different. With these modern issues, it's always a "wait and see" deal in terms of when offered, pricing, sales figures (week to week tracking) and estimation of final production once the various denoms go "black"
the biggest difference in 08, is that the pricing of the product upon issue was on top of a "spike" in the spot platinum price, meaning prohibitive pricing for these coins in a poor economic climate. This was followed by LOTS of returns due to poor quality, followed by the spot price of platinum being cut in HALF on the world market.
pulling the issue and determining when to re-offer upon some guidance based on stabilization of the "moving averge price of the metal" has led us two and a half months down the road without a re-offering at reduced prices.
it is getting late in the year.
will the coins return......yes, there is remaining stock and lots of returns to re-sell.
when.......who knows, but probably before year end.
They're not coming back!!!! I finally made a good purchase from the mint!!! I have the 4-coin set in NGC 70! Who will give me $10K? Remember, the best purchases are the ones that seemed high when you bought them but were worth it!!
That is a good question... Probably because I know what I'm asking won't be offered because too many are betting that it will be released again and when it doesn't my price is $20K.
The 2004 Proofs simply didn't gain traction because they had been priced much higher than the 2003 Plats. I think it was something like a 45% increase over 2003. They were slow sellers the whole time, and they were finally pulled in late March or early April 2005. Nobody really even paid much attention to the low mintage figures until about 6 months later, when the prices took off. Then, everyone started to notice.
The 2006-W Burnished were offered fairly late in the year (mid-October) but even so, they were slow sellers until they started selling out and it became apparent that another run wasn't in the cards. This is when "minted to demand" took on another whole meaning, i.e., if it's too late in the year, once they are gone, they are gone. No last-minute runs to be sold into the following year, like the Proofs.
Both the 2008 Proofs and the 2008-W Burnished Plats were simply priced high and were then whipsawed by the quickly declining bullion market. The volatility continues even at this time. The Mint is getting gun-shy when it pulled the Unc. Dolly Madison because spot gold came within 5% of the selling price today. If 5% is the tipping point as some have suggested, then platinum will be mighty hard to sell for awhile unless they bring the 2008 coins back at a very healthy premium. Gold Proof pricing suggests a 30% to 35% premium, but who really knows?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
1) We don't know when, or if, the 2008 Plats are coming back.
2) We don't know what the pricing might be if and when they come back.
3) We don't know how many will be available or for how long they will be available, if and when they come back.
That's what we don't know.
What we do know is that the current mintages would put the 2008's into a class of their own, not just in the Plat Series, but in all of the Moderns issued since about 1915.
We must balance the fact that the Mint has some of these coins that could be made available at any time vs. the ultimate potential if no more of them were ever released.
We must also consider that the Mint probably doesn't care too much about whether or not these Plats become highly-sought or whether they will be simply another low mintage year in a chain of several such years.
In 6 months, we will know a bit more than we know now. Fun, isn't it?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Comments
<< <i>Michael White
Office of Public Affairs
(202) 354-7222
Call Michael White at the US Mint and ask him: Unless Eric has an inside informant, I have to go with this guy. >>
I talk to Michael from time to time. But I also talk to others. The mint would like to put the coins back up for sale at some point. Is this a certainty...............NO..................It just depends on who you talk to. I think there is better than 50 percent chance they will come back up prior to the 2009 proofs coming out next year. If you don't want to take the risk by all means pick up your missing coins on the open market now. If you want to play the odds and buy them cheaper with some chance of no coins then wait. I have most of what I need so I am not in a big hurry to chase them..
Ericj96
I would not chase crazy high prices now.
I know of small groups of investors that bought five figure $ amounts of all sizes of the 08W UNC's and submissions produced about a 35% grade thru rate at MS70, the rest were apparently returned to the USM.
A number of forum members speak of returns being shipped EXPRESS mail back to ensure they made it before the 30 day cutoff because of the severe drop in PLAT pricing - at that time dropping from about 2100 to 1500oz.
As soon as the 30 day window expired (meaning loads of returns showed up in Memphis), these coins were pulled and did not return as of this date.
My opinion is that the initial and only production run of these coins will be low, how low is the question......
If this issue indeed has tiny mintages, let's assume below 2,000 for all coins larger than the 1/10 oz and less than 3,000 for the 1/10 oz - this will certainly de-thrown the 06-W PLAT UNC's from their position as King.
As for First Strike commanding rediculously higher prices in a minute mintage scenario, my opinion is like many other knowledgable members on this board, that FS will not command a big spread over NON-FS coins. In fact, we know that for seriously low mintage coins, even raw ungraded coins in the early days after sell-out command much higher prices than subjecting yourself to long wait times for grading and return of your coins to market them.
Compare this with the current reported sales numbers (which in itself is suspect, as they haven't moved since the 8/19 issue of NN, which I believe is 2 weeks in arrears and do not appear to even be adjusted for the tidalwave of returns in and around 8/5-8/10) of -
4 coin sets - 453
1 oz - 146
1/2 oz - 126
1/4 oz - 198
1/10 oz - 712
When the remaining coins return to be sold, I believe that they will sell out the small quantities in short order.
...at this juncture , I'll take a platinum blonde and an AMC Eagle.
On second thought,
This thread is going to need a soup spoon.
<< <i>The 2008-W UNC PLATS will be back. There is NO doubt in my mind. Probably in time for the Holiday catalog in November. Of course, this is my opinion.
I would not chase crazy high prices now.
I know of small groups of investors that bought five figure $ amounts of all sizes of the 08W UNC's and submissions produced about a 35% grade thru rate at MS70, the rest were apparently returned to the USM.
A number of forum members speak of returns being shipped EXPRESS mail back to ensure they made it before the 30 day cutoff because of the severe drop in PLAT pricing - at that time dropping from about 2100 to 1500oz.
As soon as the 30 day window expired (meaning loads of returns showed up in Memphis), these coins were pulled and did not return as of this date.
My opinion is that the initial and only production run of these coins will be low, how low is the question......
If this issue indeed has tiny mintages, let's assume below 2,000 for all coins larger than the 1/10 oz and less than 3,000 for the 1/10 oz - this will certainly de-thrown the 06-W PLAT UNC's from their position as King.
As for First Strike commanding rediculously higher prices in a minute mintage scenario, my opinion is like many other knowledgable members on this board, that FS will not command a big spread over NON-FS coins. In fact, we know that for seriously low mintage coins, even raw ungraded coins in the early days after sell-out command much higher prices than subjecting yourself to long wait times for grading and return of your coins to market them.
Compare this with the current reported sales numbers (which in itself is suspect, as they haven't moved since the 8/19 issue of NN, which I believe is 2 weeks in arrears and do not appear to even be adjusted for the tidalwave of returns in and around 8/5-8/10) of -
4 coin sets - 453
1 oz - 146
1/2 oz - 126
1/4 oz - 198
1/10 oz - 712
When the remaining coins return to be sold, I believe that they will sell out the small quantities in short order. >>
Thanks for the sales numbers! Does Numismatic News update their figures to reflect returns?
Here is some totally speculative food for thought – What if the Mint decided that the quality of the entire run was not up to par, based on the number of collector returns? Then what?
What is the Mint’s official policy on disposition of retuned coins? I’ve emailed the Mint this question in the past, but never received a reply.
Yes, NN does include returns in their reporting, as long as the Mint tells them, they report it.
As soon as the 30 day window expired (meaning loads of returns showed up in Memphis), these coins were pulled and did not return as of this date.
Hmmmmm. Interesting.........
Here is some totally speculative food for thought – What if the Mint decided that the quality of the entire run was not up to par, based on the number of collector returns? Then what?
What is the Mint’s official policy on disposition of retuned coins? I’ve emailed the Mint this question in the past, but never received a reply.
So, maybe the Mint is changing it's policy towards returns. And maybe they are not recycling the returned coins. Maybe the Plat Program has them re-thinking how their quality and return policy are "interrelated" somehow.........
Last year, I recieved Platinum coins that were either very poorly packaged by the Mint, or they were someone's rejected coins, and were resold by the Mint without ANY inspection. Last year, I returned several Burnished sets for replacements, and never really got coins that didn't look "picked over".
This year, I bit the bullet and bought early. Problem solved.
I knew it would happen.
The Mint has never admitted to selling re-treads. My experience leads me to question if that's the case.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>The 2008-W UNC PLATS will be back. There is NO doubt in my mind. Probably in time for the Holiday catalog in November. Of course, this is my opinion. >>
Mine is that they are finished. I'm happily sitting on one of the less than 10, $10. First Strike MS 70's.
No need to produce or sell another one.
<< <i>So, if the Mint sells returned APEs (and doesn't press anymore for 2008), we can assume that when/if they start selling again the quality is not likely to be PCGS 70???
The Mint has never admitted to selling re-treads. My experience leads me to question if that's the case. >>
There is no question that they resold the '08 ASEs that were returned when everyone ordered tons looking for the '08 w/rev. of '07 errors. Anyone, such as myself, who ordered these things can tell you that they clearly just sent out the returns.
not one expert on modern PLATS out there expects that these are finished and will not return
the question is when they WILL return, and for how long....
one thing is for certain, with platinum spot in the low 900's, they will be priced alot cheaper!!!!!
<< <i>they definitely re-sell returned coins, unless they are visibly and reported damaged.
not one expert on modern PLATS out there expects that these are finished and will not return
the question is when they WILL return, and for how long....
one thing is for certain, with platinum spot in the low 900's, they will be priced alot cheaper!!!!! >>
The one thing that not one expert has answered is why plats have not been placed back on the market yet. The mint is in the business of selling coins, not playing games. The mint is not afraid of charging high premiums. There is no reason why they should not be on the market right now if it is the intent of the mint to bring them back. The absence of plats at this point means they are done.
<< <i>
<< <i>they definitely re-sell returned coins, unless they are visibly and reported damaged.
not one expert on modern PLATS out there expects that these are finished and will not return
the question is when they WILL return, and for how long....
one thing is for certain, with platinum spot in the low 900's, they will be priced alot cheaper!!!!! >>
The one thing that not one expert has answered is why plats have not been placed back on the market yet. The mint is in the business of selling coins, not playing games. The mint is not afraid of charging high premiums. There is no reason why they should not be on the market right now if it is the intent of the mint to bring them back. The absence of plats at this point means they are done. >>
Pretty much my thoughts. There will be returns sold around XMAS but that will, if at all, be the total market.
Take home message....buy early, grade early.
Absolutely DISAGREE with your statement that PLATS are DONE. You are fooling yourself into believing the USM has produced less than 1000 coins of most denoms in the UNC-W series......this is very very very UNLIKELY.....probably as close to ZERO percent chance.
This situation has happened before, maybe for not such a long lapse of time, but keep in mind that the USM looks at moving average spot prices to reprice their products - and the stability of the pricing.
They are not in the business of destroying coins either, and the sales numbers do not even reflect the returns for the first two weeks in August - they haven't moved.
You can bet your last dollar they WILL BE BACK ON SALE, most likely for the Holiday catalog, if not sooner.
" A date has not yet been set for the re-offering of 2008-W Platinum Coins "
so, keep your eyes open for any announcement, as I believe they will quickly sell-out once re-offered.
<< <i>You can bet your last dollar they WILL BE BACK ON SALE, most likely for the Holiday catalog, if not sooner. >>
================================================
IMHO, the mint ought to bring them back at the original issue price!!
This would help protect the original purchasers and also give any
rarity speculator a chance to collect (not flip) these coins. This might
also increase the interest of any future platinum programs the mint
has planned. - instead of probably killing any interest of future
platinum issues.
Just my opinion!
SoundPoint
"$10.00 each."
"Screw that. How much are the oranges?"
"$1.00 each"
"Okay, gimme 500 oranges."
"Sorry, we're out of oranges. Want to buy an apple?"
I knew it would happen.
Wish I knew the size of that initial run...............
<< <i>A call to the USM Office of Public Affairs revealed........
" A date has not yet been set for the re-offering of 2008-W Platinum Coins "
so, keep your eyes open for any announcement, as I believe they will quickly sell-out once re-offered. >>
Or another translation may be "we are going to sell any more of them. The platinum market has been to volatile and we have other things to sell and be concerned about."
Buy early, grade early or, strongly, risk being left out.
<< <i>
<< <i>You can bet your last dollar they WILL BE BACK ON SALE, most likely for the Holiday catalog, if not sooner. >>
================================================
IMHO, the mint ought to bring them back at the original issue price!!
This would help protect the original purchasers and also give any
rarity speculator a chance to collect (not flip) these coins. This might
also increase the interest of any future platinum programs the mint
has planned. - instead of probably killing any interest of future
platinum issues.
Just my opinion!
SoundPoint >>
If they come back, which I seriously doubt, I think they will be priced at a point equal to the highest price they've been listed at this year precisely in fairness to those who purchased at that time.
I don't have any sympathy for anyone who played a wait and see game, anticipating lower prices, at any point after the first immediate issue.
Remember the Platinum Proofs of 2004? Lots of buyer resistance to a steep price increase. High market values for those 2004's inspired very heavy ordering in the next few years. With a low mintage for 2008, how inspired will ordering be for 2009? I'm thinking even at a hefty premium over spot, the '09's will sell very well.
Looks to me like there is incentive for the Mint to keep '08 numbers low.
<< <i>As we get closer to year end the likelyhood of a second run of Platinum MS or PR eagles decreases.
Wish I knew the size of that initial run............... >>
The chances of a second run have already went away I believe.....
Exclude 1997 from the thought process.....
Link
<< <i>Similarly, the Mint said that all denominations for American Eagle platinum bullion coins were depleted last week, and it would halt production for the rest of the year once the remaining inventory was depleted. >>
I don't know if this applies to proof or -w, but either way, the mint sounds like they are done for the year.
>2008 will be the lowest pop ever.
>The Mint is more likely to continue selling unc-w's than proofs.
>The quality of the remaining unsold coins is not likely to yield many PR70DCAMs (because of returns).
>FYI: The Mint dollar-cost-averages their bullion and routinely returns unsold coins to their blanks supplier.
>2004 and 2007 sales are not that different, but 2004 prices are 100% higher!
>2004 prices will decline quickly--sell now!
>2007 will increase, buy now.
>The Mint is not nearly as concerned with APE pricing & 2008 APE sales figures as we are.
>The return policy will be more restrictive in 2009.
>Pt prices will rebound with the economy (auto sales); therefore, 2009 will be another up/down year.
>"Buy early" is a wise strategy with the PMs.
>You get a one week advanced notice of repricing from the Federal Register--nothing yet...
>Last, my guesses are only guesses! Nobody really knows...
Lots of potential with the APEs, IMO.
Platinum, rare?
That being the first year and produced late caused these mintage to be low. That's not the case this year but the crazy PM prices seems like it could very well have the same effect. I think they have a good chace to come back but when the the present batches are sold out that's it since they have moved on to the 09's and all the holidays come in November/December and employees will be taking a lot of vacations. It doesn't appear that they were able to sell out the first batch due to the high prices of PM's and then the drop by half.
In a nutshell - nothing true.
<< <i>What were folks told when the '06 w plat uncs were pulled in late '06?
In a nutshell - nothing true. >>
The mint told us "We struck to anticipated demand and are selling out our inventory in all denominations".
Direct quote.
Ericj96
log your two cents.......
All heck broke loose and a lot of us got in on them and bought them up. Then they slowely become "unavailable" until all shipments stopped. I had orders for more that never were shipped, but I did get a notice in the mail a couple of months later that they were sold out.
The 08 deal is different.
the biggest difference in 08, is that the pricing of the product upon issue was on top of a "spike" in the spot platinum price, meaning prohibitive pricing for these coins in a poor economic climate. This was followed by LOTS of returns due to poor quality, followed by the spot price of platinum being cut in HALF on the world market.
pulling the issue and determining when to re-offer upon some guidance based on stabilization of the "moving averge price of the metal" has led us two and a half months down the road without a re-offering at reduced prices.
it is getting late in the year.
will the coins return......yes, there is remaining stock and lots of returns to re-sell.
when.......who knows, but probably before year end.
why so late........that has yet to be answered.
That is a good question... Probably because I know what I'm asking won't be offered because too many are betting that it will be released again and when it doesn't my price is $20K.
The 2006-W Burnished were offered fairly late in the year (mid-October) but even so, they were slow sellers until they started selling out and it became apparent that another run wasn't in the cards. This is when "minted to demand" took on another whole meaning, i.e., if it's too late in the year, once they are gone, they are gone. No last-minute runs to be sold into the following year, like the Proofs.
Both the 2008 Proofs and the 2008-W Burnished Plats were simply priced high and were then whipsawed by the quickly declining bullion market. The volatility continues even at this time. The Mint is getting gun-shy when it pulled the Unc. Dolly Madison because spot gold came within 5% of the selling price today. If 5% is the tipping point as some have suggested, then platinum will be mighty hard to sell for awhile unless they bring the 2008 coins back at a very healthy premium. Gold Proof pricing suggests a 30% to 35% premium, but who really knows?
I knew it would happen.
In another two months it will be double double!!!
1) We don't know when, or if, the 2008 Plats are coming back.
2) We don't know what the pricing might be if and when they come back.
3) We don't know how many will be available or for how long they will be available, if and when they come back.
That's what we don't know.
What we do know is that the current mintages would put the 2008's into a class of their own, not just in the Plat Series, but in all of the Moderns issued since about 1915.
We must balance the fact that the Mint has some of these coins that could be made available at any time vs. the ultimate potential if no more of them were ever released.
We must also consider that the Mint probably doesn't care too much about whether or not these Plats become highly-sought or whether they will be simply another low mintage year in a chain of several such years.
In 6 months, we will know a bit more than we know now. Fun, isn't it?
I knew it would happen.
I knew it would happen.
Keep still, young members, take a lession from your elders........
That doesn't narrow it down much.
Box of 20