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I might be finished with coin shows for good!
gecko109
Posts: 8,231 ✭
Just returned from the CSNS show in Rosemont. Today was PNG day, so only about 1/4 or less of the dealers were set up, and the bourse was only sparsely populated with customers. That was quite nice, and again, I'd like to thank Julian for his invitation to the "members only" day. I left my house this morning around 9 am with exactly $1,900 in my pocket, and a gleam in my eyes. I returned home at about 2 pm with exactly $1,900 in my pocket, and a newfound dislike for large dealers. First of all, I would guesstimate that 80% or more of all the coins on display were over my paltry $1,900 budget, and thats ok. I expected to see some mega coins, and I did. Saw 4 stellas, and a few pan-pac $50's, both round and octagonal. Saw some fabulous early gold as well as some superb gem type coins. However, only 2 coins caught my interest as possible purchases. The first was an 1806 1/2 cent in a PCGS XF45 slab. CDN sheet says $210 on an EF, and $400 on an AU. Im a realist, and I dont expect to get any nice type coins at sheet. However, the dealer wanted $485 on it. If you average the 2 ask prices at about $305 for a 45, the dealer's $485 tag represents a massive 160% of sheet!!! On a less common date, or a special variety coin, I can see a large mark-up. But a run of the mill 1806, small 6, stemless? No thanks. The other coin that I wanted to buy was a 1905 IHC in a PCGS MS64 RD. Sheet ask is $160....dealer wanted $230 as marked....I offered $200 on the nose, pointing out this is $40, or about 25% OVER sheet ask on a WIDGET! He replied with a best price of $215. I walked out angry. Just for fun, I hit ebay when I got home to check completed listings on common date PCGS 64 reds. 5 of them have been sold at or less than $200 in the past 2 weeks. To hell with the OVERINFLATED prices at shows and shops. Hey dealers, you guys better wake up and smell the coffee! Why would a guy like me pay alot more for YOUR coin when I can pick them off ebay at or near sheet? I have not a ton of money to spend at any given time, but im 33 and an AVID collector. Might be beneficial to have a dedicated customer that fits my profile.
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If all coins were the same, that would be a good argument.
I might be finished with coin shows for good!
I have never had a bad time at a coin show.
I agree with TDN sometimes you just have to throw the sheet out the window for premium coins. I understand what you were looking at was widgets but were they nice for the grade in comparison to what you saw in the photo's on e-bay?
<< <i>Nice coins typically bring way over sheet. Slaves to the sheet, end up with sheet...
Are these "nice" coins? All of these were bought off ebay at or slightly (5% or less) above CDN sheet.
<< <i>I just paid 1K over sheet or a 33% premium for an F15 Half Eagle.
I agree with TDN sometimes you just have to throw the sheet out the window for premium coins. I understand what you were looking at was widgets but were they nice for the grade in comparison to what you saw in the photo's on e-bay? >>
I guarantee that F15 was not a common date coin.
<< <i>I just paid 1K over sheet or a 33% premium for an F15 Half Eagle.
I agree with TDN sometimes you just have to throw the sheet out the window for premium coins. I understand what you were looking at was widgets but were they nice for the grade in comparison to what you saw in the photo's on e-bay? >>
Not being there, I'd guess that they were not. That being said, maybe the sheet needs to realize its' irrelevence and update itself to align closer to realism. Just a thought.
As far as returning angry... Jeez, dude - you're at a coin show instead of digging a ditch or something. I'm grateful every day that I'm still breathing.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
No way to tell off an image.
<< <i>Nice coins typically bring way over sheet. Slaves to the sheet, end up with sheet...
And what do dealers pay for "nice coins" when Joe Sixpack tries to sell them some coins? How about 10% back of bid if they are lucky?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As with most businesses, the coin business would be better off without some of it's consumers.
It is too bad you did not enjoy the show; there has never been an instance where I was unhappy that I went to a show even if I bought nothing.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I was in a Vegas at a nice shop and came across an 1870-CC Seated Dollar - PCGS XF45. Sheet has these, and forgive me I dont have it in front of me, at about $1700. So, I ask to see it and, it was very nice-I would even go so far as to say that it might undergraded. But, when I look at the price and this guy has it at over $4700!!!!!
Wow, I literally looked several times at the price to make sure I was seeing correctly! Now, as others have said I can understand that things that are hard to come by and are nice for the grade, that you cannot expect to pay sheet. However, at nearly 3x sheet I thought this was ridiculous. Needless to say I passed and went on my way.
I also consider myself an avid collector so I feel your pain.
Me Either. I've never been privy to the private show days, but it seems I always meet someone, see great eye candy that I know I'll never own, and usually find something to buy. To be surrounded with coins and coin folks . . . What's NOT to like! ! !
But then again I'm a widget collector & rarities wisher.
Regards,
John
1947-P & D; 1948-D; 1949-P & S; 1950-D & S; and 1952-S.
Any help locating any of these OBW rolls would be gratefully appreciated!
More collectors need to start doing the same.
<< <i>Having not seen the coins that you were attracted to, or the coins that sold for less elsewhere, I could not possibly comment on the idea that some of these might be overpriced. However, as has been pointed out, truly nice coins for the grade can routinely sell for far in excess of Greysheet or any other guide. Lastly, I would mention that the Greysheet has historically been a wholesale guide that may be completely ignored when dealing with either the retail public or with an unknown buyer. Of course, it appears over the last decade that many folks want to use the Greysheet as a retail guide, but this need not be the case.
It is too bad you did not enjoy the show; there has never been an instance where I was unhappy that I went to a show even if I bought nothing. >>
So Tom, getting the above pictured coins, and a couple dozen like them at or near sheet, I was just "lucky" then? As Perry pointed out, if I had 5 or 6 coins to sell, im lucky to get 10% back of sheet, forget the quality of the coins. I paid a large, LARGE sum of money above sheet recently on a 1795 flowing hair half in a PCGS VG8....and very happy to do so......it truly is a PQ coin, and a tough coin to locate in problem free condition. But are you seriously defending an over 25% mark-up above sheet on a common 64 rd indian? Come on Tom! Who is being unrealistic?
<< <i>And what do dealers pay for "nice coins" when Joe Sixpack tries to sell them some coins? How about 10% back of bid if they are lucky? >>
AMEN! If the 'sheet' is good to buy then why is not good to sell from?
Since it's still a fairly active coin market, if I were a dealer, I would be tempted to start off a show with higher prices - why sell my coins at a lower price today if most of the dealers and public aren't even at the show?
If you go back in a day or two and the coins are still there, the dealers might be more willing to accept your offers. If the coins are gone, then you know that someone else thought they weren't that overpriced.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>Do dealers still have to pay for tables at shows or is that free now?
As with most businesses, the coin business would be better off without some of it's consumers. >>
Table fees? Maybe $50 for a local 60 table show....I could only guess $300-$500 possibly for the CSNS (someone will correct me).
Better off without someone who has the cash, but not willing to pay 40-60% over sheet on widgets, sure.
Whens the last time you saw a new B&M pop up in your area? Does that mean anything to you?
A seller has every right to ask whatever he wants for a coin. And a buyer has every right to offer whatever he wants for a coin. Neither party (whether collector or dealer) has an obligation to buy or sell for any particular amount, regardless of what is printed in the greysheet.
<< <i>Perhaps you might have had better luck going later in the show.
Since it's still a fairly active coin market, if I were a dealer, I would be tempted to start off a show with higher prices - why sell my coins at a lower price today if most of the dealers and public aren't even at the show?
If you go back in a day or two and the coins are still there, the dealers might be more willing to accept your offers. If the coins are gone, then you know that someone else thought they weren't that overpriced. >>
I have considered this point, and its a valid one. Yet, over and over, show after show, its the same thing. I pull out a CDN sheet and I can see the look of horror in the dealer's eyes. I know nice stuff doesnt sell at sheet. But the widgets that I wanted to buy today are nowhere close to being worth 150% of sheet. I bet late Saturday would be a better time to go as a buyer.
<< <i>Are these "nice" coins?
No way to tell off an image. >>
lol. we have gone from not being able to grade a coin from an
image to outright not being able to give an opinion of a coin in
an image.
hilarious.
<< <i>Nice coins typically bring way over sheet. Slaves to the sheet, end up with sheet...
Well stated.
<< <i>The greysheet is only a guide to prices. And maybe its usefulness in that regard is limited even more due to the fact that it gets used in ways not intended by the publisher.
A seller has every right to ask whatever he wants for a coin. And a buyer has every right to offer whatever he wants for a coin. Neither party (whether collector or dealer) has an obligation to buy or sell for any particular amount, regardless of what is printed in the greysheet. >>
Thats why im done with shows, and I'll stick to ebay for aquiring my COMMON DATE slabbed type coins. I can get them for around sheet all day long....would you like to see more examples of what i've gotten the past few years off ebay for near sheet money?
<< <i>Congratulations to you for just saying "NO" to inflated rare coin prices!
More collectors need to start doing the same. >>
good advice! i see half eagles all the time that have insane prices
on them for common material and i pass it by knowing time is on
my side and opportunity can knock around the next corner!
Sheet is not relevant for dates that don't show up often. For instance, the only PCGS XF45 70-CC dollar to sell at Heritage in the last decade brought over $2,700 over 4 years ago. The last 70-CC in PCGS AU50 to sell there brought almost $5k - again over 4 years ago. Probably double today. So while you may have thought the dealer was shooting for the moon on his asking price, in reality it was probably quite fair for a coin you state may have been undergraded .... where's he gonna find another to replace it?
<< <i>
<< <i>Are these "nice" coins?
No way to tell off an image. >>
lol. we have gone from not being able to grade a coin from an
image to outright not being able to give an opinion of a coin in
an image.
hilarious. >>
Grade this coin off this image:
<< <i>
<< <i>And what do dealers pay for "nice coins" when Joe Sixpack tries to sell them some coins? How about 10% back of bid if they are lucky? >>
AMEN! If the 'sheet' is good to buy then why is not good to sell from? >>
Because it is not a retail price list. These are for wholesale dealer-to-dealer transactions.
<< <i>I was in a Vegas at a nice shop and came across an 1870-CC Seated Dollar - PCGS XF45. Sheet has these, and forgive me I dont have it in front of me, at about $1700. So, I ask to see it and, it was very nice-I would even go so far as to say that it might undergraded. But, when I look at the price and this guy has it at over $4700!!!!!
Sheet is not relevant for dates that don't show up often. For instance, the only PCGS XF45 70-CC dollar to sell at Heritage in the last decade brought over $2,700 over 4 years ago. The last 70-CC in PCGS AU50 to sell there brought almost $5k - again over 4 years ago. Probably double today. So while you may have thought the dealer was shooting for the moon on his asking price, in reality it was probably quite fair for a coin you state may have been undergraded .... where's he gonna find another to replace it?
TDN, this is where you and I agree COMPLETELY! As I stated, I recently paid $1625 for a 1795 flowing hair half in VG8. At the time, sheet was $735. Was I "upset", or "angry" after I bought it? I couldnt stop smiling all the way home! I expect to pay way over sheet on flowing hair pieces, but not on indian head cents in 64 RD. Do you kind of get my point now?
<< <i>Interesting, most of the time I enjoy reading coin show reports. I find it funny that a consumer is demanding dealer prices instead of retail. I also find it interesting that I cannot locate but one 1905 PCGS MS 64 Red Indian (as a completed ebay auction), and it sold for 210 dollar plus with shipping on ebay Here , and the OP is claiming four were sold in the last two weeks and none for over 200 dollars? PCGS price guide is trending lower, but still quoted at 250.00 for the average coin. >>
Rob, I like you, but you need to read a lil better. I said 5 COMMON DATE 64 RDs have sold at or below $200. Did 1905 suddenly become a key date without me knowing about it?
<< <i>
Are these "nice" coins? All of these were bought off ebay at or slightly (5% or less) above CDN sheet.
>>
Most collectors would reject all of these.
They are all below average in eye appeal, with weak strikes, gouges, spots and stains.
But there are always buyers looking only for the grade on the slab and a cheap price.
I enjoy the shows. I see dealers with over priced stock (excuse me---material) and then some with some very reasonable prices. Don't usually find both at the same table. Last show I made the dealers were using sheet prices to mark from (both me and the dealer were looking em up at the same time).
Who knows, maybe next time?
<< <i>I just paid 1K over sheet or a 33% premium for an F15 Half Eagle.
I agree with TDN sometimes you just have to throw the sheet out the window for premium coins. I understand what you were looking at was widgets but were they nice for the grade in comparison to what you saw in the photo's on e-bay? >>
On the other hand however, I have never met a dealer that was willing to pay over Sheet for truly premium quality coins. It is like pulling teeth to get AU50 sheet price for AU55 or AU58s. Not so hard if the coin is slabed PCGS58.
<< <i>I just paid 1K over sheet or a 33% premium for an F15 Half Eagle.
I agree with TDN sometimes you just have to throw the sheet out the window for premium coins. I understand what you were looking at was widgets but were they nice for the grade in comparison to what you saw in the photo's on e-bay? >>
Gecko's coins weren't premium though, so WTF? I had a similar experience at the Paper show a few weeks ago. I paid premium for items I later saw exchange hands at 30% below where I purchased. Frustrating, to say the least. Another lesson learned. Gecko is more experience than I, and saved himself, imo, hard earned $$.
The 1875 half dollar appears to have quite good mint frost on the coin. The truly late-date, with motto coins of 1879 and later have quite low mintages, but these 1875-1878 are relatively common and are often used as type coins. I don't see that you have posted a grade, but I could imagine anything from AU58 through MS63 and would expect the MS63 grade on the coin. In my opinion this coin has the very positive attribute of good frost, but it has also likely been dipped and would not be a special coin to me based upon the images, but also would not be a bad coin, either. To me it is a commercially acceptable coin. Similarly, the 1887 dime appears to have good mint frost, too, but also is a coin that was likely dipped. This issue is also a good example of a type coin since it has a relatively large date. The images suggest an MS63 or MS64 coin and I would go with MS64 in this instance. These late-date Seated dimes are not that scarce and the same comments would apply to this coin as I wrote for the 1875 half. The 1858 half-dime has the look of an MS64 to me and it looks to be the nicest of the three silver coins that you posted in this thread. I think it has been dipped, too, but it has retoned a bit and would be quite pleasant for most collectors.
The 1829 half cent does not do it for me very much since I don't care for that much spotting on early copper. I can see an argument for AU58, but think it is an MS62. It looks to have decent luster in-hand, but again the eye appeal is a bit lacking for me. The last coin imaged is the 1895 quarter eagle and this one gives me the greatest problems since gold inherently retains apparent luster well beyond silver or copper coinage and also because the grading standards for these pieces seem to diverge from those of other metals. It has some scuffiness in the fields that suggests an AU58 grade, but I don't see any wear on the piece and would guess it as either an MS62 or MS63 with the nod going to MS62 because of the overall scuffy look.
My favorite coin of the group would be the half-dime, but I think most other folks would either choose the half dollar or quarter eagle. In my opinion and based only upon the single sets of images, none of these coins shouts out to me that it is more than a typical example of the series. Of course, you also have to take in mind what I find aesthetically pleasing and this does not always match what the market generally values. Therefore, this group would be a "sheet group" if I have the grades more-or-less correct. Obviously, if they all grade AU58 then they would be far nicer than typical for the grade while if they grade MS65 then they would be far worse than typical for the grade.
I don't know if you have shared your 1795 half dollar yet, but I would like to see that coin because there are some nice pieces floating about in G6-F12 holders and it is a treat to have them posted. Your comment about a 25% markup over sheet for a common date, MS64RD IHC has to be taken into context. To begin with, Greysheet specifically states that MS64 and MS65 values for IHCs are for RB coins, which would mean that a full RD coin would sell for more money than listed on the Greysheet. Additionally, a 25% markup on a $160 coin is not that much real money. I realize that if you always pay 25% more than what you expect that you may find yourself in a hole, but for a relatively low dollar coin the percentage increase does not hit you that badly in the wallet. I am typing this with the last response of yours to this thread being at 4:14, so if you have added information in that time I have not seen it.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>
Are these "nice" coins? All of these were bought off ebay at or slightly (5% or less) above CDN sheet.
>>
Most collectors would reject all of these.
They are all below average in eye appeal, with weak strikes, gouges, spots and stains.
But there are always buyers looking only for the grade on the slab and a cheap price. >>
Frank...I just lost all respect for you, and your credibility is now gone as well.....How can you say ANYTHING about the eye appeal of these coins without even knowing what the slabbed grade says, and subsequently what I paid? As an example....if all of those coins were slabbed as 58's, how do you like them now? I would expect more from an educated person than to say a coin has below average eye appeal without even knowing the grade.
<< <i>Congratulations to you for just saying "NO" to inflated rare coin prices!
More collectors need to start doing the same. >>
i know how you feel, not with coin shows, but with antiques in
general. i know coin stores but not shows.
coin dealers are out to make money and they have a captive audience
coming to them. ebay is the opposite. people put up coins for sale
and pray that people view them and want to bid.
what situation would you prefer? a buyer looking for sellers or
a seller praying for buyers?
lets face it, no matter what anybody says, ebay pops up great
coins sometimes. everyone assumes that a buyer on ebay is just
slopping up garbage... when the reality is that the person could
very well be looking at pics of 1000s of coins and selecting one
to stretch for out of that group.
i, like you, prefer auctions over buying from a dealer who more
then likely priced the coin as high as he could and is willing to drop
the price 5-10% which still leaves the price at an untempting level.
with an auction you bid what you are willing to pay and let the
cards fall where they may. sometimes you get the coin at your price
and sometimes you do not.
why in the world would i want to pay full retail for common date
slabbed half eagles when i know i could save 50-100 bucks on ebay
for the same coins that have pops in the 100s and 1000s???
you also do not blow money on food, gas, hotel, etc.. which all
goes for coins.
i have memories from the 80s of collectible shows and frankly they
were very boring unless you were at the point of your collecting
stage where you bought anything that caught your fancy. if you
are focused now days and know what you want, auctions are so
much better to me.
others will disagree with me but what do i care? i pick the way i want
to collect and aquire coins that is the most fun to me. one person's
idea of quality, rarity, and etc will more then likely differ from yours
and heck, who are you collecting for? them or yourself?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Are these "nice" coins?
No way to tell off an image. >>
lol. we have gone from not being able to grade a coin from an
image to outright not being able to give an opinion of a coin in
an image.
hilarious. >>
Grade this coin off this image:
typical of you to pick a proof where the pic can hide hairlines.
but i can at the very least give an opinion of it i like it or not.
and yes i like it, no matter the grade, be it PF62 to PF67. good
looking coin based on the pic. i do not see any rub and that
is why my guess has such a large range accounting from hidden
problems i cannot see.
my point still stands. you may not be able to guess the grade exactly,
but for gosh sakes, you should be able to tell if you like the look
based on the pic. this is a virtual forum where pics are what we have
to discuss.
<< And what do dealers pay for "nice coins" when Joe Sixpack tries to sell them some coins? How about 10% back of bid if they are lucky? >>
AMEN! If the 'sheet' is good to buy then why is not good to sell from? >>
Because it is not a retail price list. These are for wholesale dealer-to-dealer transactions.
True, but at 300% profit? Especially when 'joesixpack' (I think it was
<< <i> maybe the sheet needs to realize its' irrelevence and update itself to align closer to realism. >>
Are people missing the point that these prices are being paid for PREMIUM QUALITY coins? The Greysheet
is for AVERAGE coins and Bluesheet for low end coins that are ugly and barely make the grade.
A premium coin selling for 3x the sheet price is not like a stockbroker trying to sell a share of Microsoft
stock at 3x the sheet price. But I don't know how many times I have been called a crook by "coin investors"
who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on coin "investments" but have never learned this crucial
difference. At least the "cheap slab" dealers have an outlet for the junk...
All I felt was "What a waste of time, gas, and even the small ($2) admission charge."
<< <i>You were loading your images to the thread (posted at 4:05) as I was typing my initial reply (posted at 4:09). Therefore, I had not seen any images of the coins you own. I will, though, give you my opinion on the images you posted as long as we all keep in mind the limitations associated with image acquisition and interpretation.
The 1875 half dollar appears to have quite good mint frost on the coin. The truly late-date, with motto coins of 1879 and later have quite low mintages, but these 1875-1878 are relatively common and are often used as type coins. I don't see that you have posted a grade, but I could imagine anything from AU58 through MS63 and would expect the MS63 grade on the coin. In my opinion this coin has the very positive attribute of good frost, but it has also likely been dipped and would not be a special coin to me based upon the images, but also would not be a bad coin, either. To me it is a commercially acceptable coin. Similarly, the 1887 dime appears to have good mint frost, too, but also is a coin that was likely dipped. This issue is also a good example of a type coin since it has a relatively large date. The images suggest an MS63 or MS64 coin and I would go with MS64 in this instance. These late-date Seated dimes are not that scarce and the same comments would apply to this coin as I wrote for the 1875 half. The 1858 half-dime has the look of an MS64 to me and it looks to be the nicest of the three silver coins that you posted in this thread. I think it has been dipped, too, but it has retoned a bit and would be quite pleasant for most collectors.
The 1829 half cent does not do it for me very much since I don't care for that much spotting on early copper. I can see an argument for AU58, but think it is an MS62. It looks to have decent luster in-hand, but again the eye appeal is a bit lacking for me. The last coin imaged is the 1895 quarter eagle and this one gives me the greatest problems since gold inherently retains apparent luster well beyond silver or copper coinage and also because the grading standards for these pieces seem to diverge from those of other metals. It has some scuffiness in the fields that suggests an AU58 grade, but I don't see any wear on the piece and would guess it as either an MS62 or MS63 with the nod going to MS62 because of the overall scuffy look.
My favorite coin of the group would be the half-dime, but I think most other folks would either choose the half dollar or quarter eagle. In my opinion and based only upon the single sets of images, none of these coins shouts out to me that it is more than a typical example of the series. Of course, you also have to take in mind what I find aesthetically pleasing and this does not always match what the market generally values. Therefore, this group would be a "sheet group" if I have the grades more-or-less correct. Obviously, if they all grade AU58 then they would be far nicer than typical for the grade while if they grade MS65 then they would be far worse than typical for the grade.
I don't know if you have shared your 1795 half dollar yet, but I would like to see that coin because there are some nice pieces floating about in G6-F12 holders and it is a treat to have them posted. Your comment about a 25% markup over sheet for a common date, MS64RD IHC has to be taken into context. To begin with, Greysheet specifically states that MS64 and MS65 values for IHCs are for RB coins, which would mean that a full RD coin would sell for more money than listed on the Greysheet. Additionally, a 25% markup on a $160 coin is not that much real money. I realize that if you always pay 25% more than what you expect that you may find yourself in a hole, but for a relatively low dollar coin the percentage increase does not hit you that badly in the wallet. I am typing this with the last response of yours to this thread being at 4:14, so if you have added information in that time I have not seen it. >>
Excellent assesment Tom. You are one of the best posters on this forum. You almost nailed every coin to the tee!
1875 half--MS63
1887 dime--MS64
1858 HD---MS62 (I can now assume PQ)
1829 half cent---MS63 (full luster in hand, yet spotted to be sure)
1895 quarter eagle---MS62
The sheet does list 64 rd indians in the "type coin" section by the way.
The 1795 half is horribly difficult to image well for some reason, but here is a pic of it. You can see it in living color on youtube in one of my videos. Search "U.S. Type" and you will find it under my username "geckster109" in video number 6 I think.
<< <i>So then the sheet is reliable to tell the dealer what to pay joe but not reliable at what to charge retail. >>
I think that is incorrect. The greysheet "says what to pay" when one dealer sells to another (a wholesale transaction). In order to make a profit (most dealers consider it an important goal), the dealer would therefore need to buy from a collector below the listed greysheet price.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>And what do dealers pay for "nice coins" when Joe Sixpack tries to sell them some coins? How about 10% back of bid if they are lucky? >>
AMEN! If the 'sheet' is good to buy then why is not good to sell from? >>
Because it is not a retail price list. These are for wholesale dealer-to-dealer transactions. >>
And, that makes it even funnier! I always laugh watching dealers do the "dealer to dealer" transactions and working to get a lower price than retail, especially early in a show. If a dealer is happy getting $x amount from a dealer, then why do they whine if that is the price a collector wants to pay?
I've been in sales before and didn't like a lot of the deceit. Now, I just look at things face value, ask the best price....if it isn't what I would pay, then I move on. If someone wants to sell something to a dealer...lower than what I would pay and have been "refused", then they get the lower price and less profit. If my money is good with them, then good.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i> maybe the sheet needs to realize its' irrelevence and update itself to align closer to realism. >>
Are people missing the point that these prices are being paid for PREMIUM QUALITY coins? The Greysheet
is for AVERAGE coins and Bluesheet for low end coins that are ugly and barely make the grade.
A premium coin selling for 3x the sheet price is not like a stockbroker trying to sell a share of Microsoft
stock at 3x the sheet price. But I don't know how many times I have been called a crook by "coin investors"
who spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on coin "investments" but have never learned this crucial
difference. At least the "cheap slab" dealers have an outlet for the junk... >>
Hey Frank....3x sheet price on a PQ coin? Lets take my first coin I wanted to buy as an example. 1806 half cent, small 6, no stems. Sheet has EF40 at $210 and AU50 at $400. This coin was PCGS EF45, dealer was asking $485 for it. I come in off the street with same coin in hand, Im LUCKY if the dealer offers me $210!!! Even if this EF45 was PQ for the grade, lets just assume it gets bumped up to an AU50....he is still charging almost 20% over sheet on a 50!!!! Come on Frank, who is trying to fool whom? $400 would have been a very fair price on that coin.
If that half-dime is graded MS62 then it is either undergraded, again in my opinion, or there must be hidden wear or hairlines. It is simply too nice for the typical MS62.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson