An Auction Experience I Will Never Forget !!!
tbondsdon
Posts: 6
Although I've been browsing these boards for a few years, this is actually my first post.
I've enjoyed reading many of your threads, and I hope I can add a story or two of my own in the years to come.
I'd like to say the following story had a happy ending, but that would be a lie.
So here goes, I'll leave the real names out, but your likely to figure them out anyway
Two weeks ago at a coin show in St. Louis a local auction firm hosted their mid winter sale,
Lot 223, a framed old penny board from the 1930's, housing a beautiful almost matched set of flying eagle and
indian head cents in mostly VF caught my eye and I wanted to have it. So I placed my bid over the internet,
and indeed I was the winning bidder at $4100 plus juice. I didn't even wait for the invoice to arrive, I quickly mailed
out a check, speeding up the process of the coins to my mailbox. Well, a week goes by and I receive a phone
call from the auction house, sorry to say, my coins are GONE ! What! was my obvious response.
Here's the story as told to me ...
At lot pick up the day following the auction, prior to the public entering for the show, a dealer from Texas comes to
the table to pick up his auction winnings. He hands over his check, and the auction house employee hands him his coins,
but in that stack was my penny board ( I should point out this dealer won a lincoln cent penny board at the sale) lot 233.
The auction house employee obviously gave him the wrong lot. Well, now the story gets very interesting. This Texan
apparently didn't realize he now had in his possession a board worth 3 times the board he should have received.
He then proceeds back to his show table to set up before the doors are open to the public. Then a dealer from Iowa comes
by and askes the Texan what he want for the penny board(apparently he still doesn't know what he has) , he quickly names a price, the Iowan says SOLD, hands him a check, and runs away. Now a dealer friend of mine at the show
tells me that a commotion was taking place that morning, before the public was let in. The Iowan broke the framed set open
on a table , and as quickly as he could, began selling MY COINS.
Well, ths gentlemen from the auction house who was assigned to give me this wonderful news was clearly lost for words,
this of course never happened to them before, not to this degree anyway. Calls were made to the Texan and Iowan,but of course
to no happy conclusion. Did I forget to mention that this auction house actually cashed my check, before I even recieved that phone
call from them. They most certainly would cut me a check back immediately he said, well I should hope so. He said he would
talk to his superiors and get back to me, he believed they should offer some gesture of good faith for my troubles.
Several days went by, no phone call, no email, I thought I'd give them a call. Oh, I did get their check, or I should say my check by then.
The gentlemen never talked to his superiors, I figure he hoped I would just take the check and forget about it. Well, I didn't, but now
get this, the owner of the auction house gets on the phone, tells me he's out lots of money because of what happened, like I care,
I told him , I was the winning bidder, I sent you a check and you cashed it, and I'm entitled to your end of the bargain. He says that
your only interested in yourself, and then tells me to GO F - - - MYSELF !!! and hangs up the phone... Well how do you like that!!!
So, there you have it. You can form your own opinions on what really took place, was it all a series of errors, was it more???
Bottom line, I didn't get what I wanted but learned another of life's lessons.
Of course, another taste of Murphy's Law ( St. Patty's Day is around the corner) and proof once again of the old Latin phrase
Caveat Emptor ! Let the Buyer Beware ! Be aware of all whom you do business with .....
Thanks for reading...
Don
I've enjoyed reading many of your threads, and I hope I can add a story or two of my own in the years to come.
I'd like to say the following story had a happy ending, but that would be a lie.
So here goes, I'll leave the real names out, but your likely to figure them out anyway
Two weeks ago at a coin show in St. Louis a local auction firm hosted their mid winter sale,
Lot 223, a framed old penny board from the 1930's, housing a beautiful almost matched set of flying eagle and
indian head cents in mostly VF caught my eye and I wanted to have it. So I placed my bid over the internet,
and indeed I was the winning bidder at $4100 plus juice. I didn't even wait for the invoice to arrive, I quickly mailed
out a check, speeding up the process of the coins to my mailbox. Well, a week goes by and I receive a phone
call from the auction house, sorry to say, my coins are GONE ! What! was my obvious response.
Here's the story as told to me ...
At lot pick up the day following the auction, prior to the public entering for the show, a dealer from Texas comes to
the table to pick up his auction winnings. He hands over his check, and the auction house employee hands him his coins,
but in that stack was my penny board ( I should point out this dealer won a lincoln cent penny board at the sale) lot 233.
The auction house employee obviously gave him the wrong lot. Well, now the story gets very interesting. This Texan
apparently didn't realize he now had in his possession a board worth 3 times the board he should have received.
He then proceeds back to his show table to set up before the doors are open to the public. Then a dealer from Iowa comes
by and askes the Texan what he want for the penny board(apparently he still doesn't know what he has) , he quickly names a price, the Iowan says SOLD, hands him a check, and runs away. Now a dealer friend of mine at the show
tells me that a commotion was taking place that morning, before the public was let in. The Iowan broke the framed set open
on a table , and as quickly as he could, began selling MY COINS.
Well, ths gentlemen from the auction house who was assigned to give me this wonderful news was clearly lost for words,
this of course never happened to them before, not to this degree anyway. Calls were made to the Texan and Iowan,but of course
to no happy conclusion. Did I forget to mention that this auction house actually cashed my check, before I even recieved that phone
call from them. They most certainly would cut me a check back immediately he said, well I should hope so. He said he would
talk to his superiors and get back to me, he believed they should offer some gesture of good faith for my troubles.
Several days went by, no phone call, no email, I thought I'd give them a call. Oh, I did get their check, or I should say my check by then.
The gentlemen never talked to his superiors, I figure he hoped I would just take the check and forget about it. Well, I didn't, but now
get this, the owner of the auction house gets on the phone, tells me he's out lots of money because of what happened, like I care,
I told him , I was the winning bidder, I sent you a check and you cashed it, and I'm entitled to your end of the bargain. He says that
your only interested in yourself, and then tells me to GO F - - - MYSELF !!! and hangs up the phone... Well how do you like that!!!
So, there you have it. You can form your own opinions on what really took place, was it all a series of errors, was it more???
Bottom line, I didn't get what I wanted but learned another of life's lessons.
Of course, another taste of Murphy's Law ( St. Patty's Day is around the corner) and proof once again of the old Latin phrase
Caveat Emptor ! Let the Buyer Beware ! Be aware of all whom you do business with .....
Thanks for reading...
Don
0
Comments
I know the auction firm about whom you speak (Scotsman), and while they have occasionally botched things on my behalf, they were always courteous and professional about it.
Harvey, why KY Jelly? If they did that Its like telling tbondsdon to Really ...as he said it when the owner told him to Go F_ _ _ himself.
On a serious note. You are lucky to have gotten your money back but i agree they should have offered you something as a gesture of good faith.
Sure, mistakes happen, but the auction house's efforts to resolve the issue (and attitude during the process) speaks volumes about them.
<< <i>We had a recent mishap similar to this with Bowers and Steve Deeds made it right.
Sure, mistakes happen, but the auction house's efforts to resolve the issue (and attitude during the process) speaks volumes about them. >>
Absolutely. Mistakes happen and if they made a mistake then they need to do everything reasonable to make the situation right. Bad customer service doesn't lose you one customer but rather an entire network of customers and tarishes reputations. Did the Auction House loss money? Who cares. They screwed up and they are lucky that they didn't get sued over this and then to tell him to GFM is totally unreasonable.
If I were tbondsdon I would the Auction House or whoever the dealer was because I don't think anyone here would want to give business to someone that creates an unethical situation and ends it with extremely poor customer service.
<< <i>Assuming that the details you present here are correct, and I have no reason to believe they are not, that is perhaps the worst example of customer service that I have ever heard. Yes, mistakes do happen, but any business who makes such a mistake is obligated to make the customer whole again. And they should do so without offering excuses, sob stories, and certainly without profanity. In the final analysis, you did nothing wrong, this was not your fault, and you remitted payment in good faith, which they accepted. At the very least, the seller was obligated to reimburse you for your payment (which they apparently did). But future sales and good customer relations are not built on such "very least" remedies. An apology, and perhaps some financial offering would have been in order. Under no circumstances, however, is an irate and obscene phone call the preferred remedy. >>
Agreed. From the facts (location and timing of auction), one company comes to mind. Does it start with "S?"
Specializing in 1854 and 1855 large FE patterns
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Hoard the keys.
<< <i>
<< <i>Assuming that the details you present here are correct, and I have no reason to believe they are not, that is perhaps the worst example of customer service that I have ever heard. Yes, mistakes do happen, but any business who makes such a mistake is obligated to make the customer whole again. And they should do so without offering excuses, sob stories, and certainly without profanity. In the final analysis, you did nothing wrong, this was not your fault, and you remitted payment in good faith, which they accepted. At the very least, the seller was obligated to reimburse you for your payment (which they apparently did). But future sales and good customer relations are not built on such "very least" remedies. An apology, and perhaps some financial offering would have been in order. Under no circumstances, however, is an irate and obscene phone call the preferred remedy. >>
Agreed. From the facts (location and timing of auction), one company comes to mind. Does it start with "S?" >>
RYK did mention earlier that the auction company starts with "Scotsman"
I agree with everyone else that the situation was handled very poorly by that auction company, especially when profanity is involved (assuming you weren't exaggerating)
<< <i>and then tells me to GO F - - - MYSELF !!! and hangs up the phone... >>
That's always a nice touch.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>I understand what the winning bidder feels here. It really irks me that the Auction House could be so freakin careless to be just giving auctioned coins away to the wrong bidders in such a haphazard manner.
Think about this for a second, the auction house takes the time to obtain and hold the coins for auction, catalogs them, and carries on an auction, they receive payments and deposit them against the item but when it comes to delivering the item they simply drop the ball with no regard to the winning bidder. They did everything right to conduct the auction and try to earn the commission and broker the money side of the transaction but have ZERO control or did everything wrong when letting the items leave their possession. To me this is disgraceful and I clearly see where they spend their monies and where they don't. A new YOU UCCK award should be established for such idiocy because THEY SUCK. Let me tell you I would be PISSED. >>
Steve
<< <i>Does anyone from Scottsman post here? I'd like to hear their side of the story. >>
They have in the past when wanting Canadian Coins.
I told him , I was the winning bidder, I sent you a check and you cashed it, and I'm entitled to your end of the bargain. He says that
your only interested in yourself, and then tells me to GO F - - - MYSELF !!! and hangs up the phone... Well how do you like that!!!
While the auctioneer could have handled this better, his point is nevertheless 100% valid.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I wouldnt let this ruin your collecting interests or even get you upset.
I even feel a little bad for the auction house as well. Not only did they lose money in the screw up, that loss may well pale in comparison to the lost business suffered as a consequence of their conduct.
What was true:
We admittedly made a mistake by giving the winner of lot 233 (a Lincoln Cent board) lot 223 (a nearly identically packaged Indian Cent Board). No excuses. We messed up. On the following Sunday morning we found out and tried to retrieve the board. We called the Texas dealer and recieved the bad news that the board had been resold and taken apart.
When we spoke with the high bidder about the problem, told him how sorry we were that it happened, that we would try to make it up to him, and that we would love to hear his input on how that may be possible, he seemed really understandable. John Bush, our auction director, wanted to talk with my father about the situation when he got back in town that Saturday. Then on Monday the bidder called John Bush for an update. John told me it was like talking to a different person than from the initial conversation. He was really accusatory. He mentioned that he had also sent my dad an email. This email was the reason for the hostility.
What was left out:
This bidder, who I can understand was frustrated, as anyone of us would be in this situation, sends out an email suggesting that this was no accident or mistake, but some sort of conspiracy to fraud the bidder and we were somehow in cahoots with another bidder by stating his belief that it was so unlikely for the series of events to have happened as we said. That really agitated my dad, and I think most people that know him can understand why. But, that wasn't enough to get him as upset as he was. What did it for my dad was the threats he made to contact PNG, PCGS, and NGC about this -- which made my dad feel like he was somehow being extorted. My dad followed up one more time with a telephone call to again explain what happened, and in my opinion he was trying to bend over backwords to satisfy this guy. We'll put together a new set, we'll try to receive what remains of the set, we'll listen to what you suggest... Then my dad tried to explain that we too are a big looser on this deal, to which he replied he didn't care. At that point, my dad lost his cool a little.
No company is going to be 100% perfect every time, but I think Scotsman does a pretty good job overall. We seem to have a lot of satisfied, repeat customers that like to call us regularly, bid in our sales, and give us a chance to buy their coins. So, the only thing I can suggest to coin collectors on this board is that they find out for themselves what type of company we are.
You did get your money back and you didn't deserve to be treated the way you were by him, but... I do understand his frustration to a degree. It doesn't excuse him telling you to go F yourself. I hope you didn't. It sounds like a Texan and an Iowan did that for ya
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
too many things that could go wrong along the way
or you get the coins and see they are badly cleaned/ misrepresented/ or described wrong
I am sure you will be doing no more business with them
What was true:
We admittedly made a mistake by giving the winner of lot 233 (a Lincoln Cent board) lot 223 (a nearly identically packaged Indian Cent Board). No excuses. We messed up. On the following Sunday morning we found out and tried to retrieve the board. We called the Texas dealer and recieved the bad news that the board had been resold and taken apart.
When we spoke with the high bidder about the problem, told him how sorry we were that it happened, that we would try to make it up to him, and that we would love to hear his input on how that may be possible, he seemed really understandable. John Bush, our auction director, wanted to talk with my father about the situation when he got back in town that Saturday. Then on Monday the bidder called John Bush for an update. John told me it was like talking to a different person than from the initial conversation. He was really accusatory. He mentioned that he had also sent my dad an email. This email was the reason for the hostility.
What was left out:
This bidder, who I can understand was frustrated, as anyone of us would be in this situation, sends out an email suggesting that this was no accident or mistake, but some sort of conspiracy to fraud the bidder and we were somehow in cahoots with another bidder by stating his belief that it was so unlikely for the series of events to have happened as we said. That really agitated my dad, and I think most people that know him can understand why. But, that wasn't enough to get him as upset as he was. What did it for my dad was the threats he made to contact PNG, PCGS, and NGC about this -- which made my dad feel like he was somehow being extorted. My dad followed up one more time with a telephone call to again explain what happened, and in my opinion he was trying to bend over backwords to satisfy this guy. We'll put together a new set, we'll try to receive what remains of the set, we'll listen to what you suggest... Then my dad tried to explain that we too are a big looser on this deal, to which he replied he didn't care. At that point, my dad lost his cool a little.
No company is going to be 100% perfect every time, but I think Scotsman does a pretty good job overall. We seem to have a lot of satisfied, repeat customers that like to call us regularly, bid in our sales, and give us a chance to buy their coins. So, the only thing I can suggest to coin collectors on this board is that they find out for themselves what type of company we are. >>
I would do business with you guys anytime! Your response was right on and just. I loike the way there is no bashing or flaming from you. If this is how you guys do buisness, I buy from you anytime. Thank you for posting and clearing this matter up.
Rainbow Stars
<< <i>Thank you for the other side, but telling a coustomer to F himself does not seem to be a solution to any coustomer service complaint. >>
I agree. Better to hang up on someone who is accusatory and uncontrollable with their tongue than to stay online with them.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Welcome
Stop right there !
This is where your dad and the OP need to get back together. Your father owes an apology even though his integrity or character is under seige from an irate customer. He took his anger with him to the telephone.
I'm done posting here !
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>That really sucks, but I agree with Gecko, could've been worse, at least all you were out were your hopes for the set. Again I say
Surprised............... if you are talking about Scotsman auctions. .No need for me to use their auction nor those on Ebay...the senior Woodside is the one who truly sucks. He must have been speaking and thinking from his other orifice
The person I have the most issue with is the winner of the Lincoln cent lot who was handed an IHC lot and subsequently sold that lot immediately. That person almost had to know they were handed the wrong lot and should not have taken advantage of the situation.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
There are usually 3 sides to every story, both the parties in involved each have a side and then there is the truth.
I knew immediately whom the OP was talking about.
I had an experience with this same outfit before I began posting on this forum.
When I say experience, I mean a very bad experience.
I won 4 lots from them on eBay, two were actually great deals price wise and the other two were probably fair for both sides.
Long story short, I paid for all the auctions, Cashier's Check or Money Order as I recall. Then, after much delay and phone calls which led nowhere but frustration; you know all the usual excuses, they guy who handles that is on vacation, well now they're out of the store, and on and on. It began to get absurd so I finally requested that they just refund my money. Oh no!! We'll take care of this, etc. etc. etc.
6 weeks or so later, remember, this has been years ago so I'm going from memory, well I get a package. Only two items, the two that were not such great deals. More phone calls. Well, it looks like someone else sold them a few days after you won them, then it was we've misplaced them, then it went on and on.
It was clear to me I was dealing with a group of people who didn't have their S**t together or were outright scamming me and didn't want to complete the transactions where they felt they could have gotten more money.
Eventually, I was told to shove it. Yes, there was foul language, but only coming from that end. I didn't lose my cool, I said fine, I'll ship the two items back and you can refund my entire amount. OH NO!!! We can't do that, a deal is a deal, you have a legal contract with us, etc. etc. Seems like a legal contract only held true when it was to their benefit.
Eventually, I did get a refund for the two items that I really wanted and had gotten a good deal on. But in the long run, it was probably 10 weeks later from start to finish.
I'm not going to drive 1000 miles to confront someone who has already demonstrated they can't be trusted and it certainly wasn't worth getting a lawyer involved at that great distance. Locally, I surely would have done it.
Lesson learned the hard way. I've never and will never do business with them again.
I'm sure they have their defenders and I have no intention of getting into a p*ssing match with anyone over this. It was many years ago and long forgotten until I read this.
I have heard of others having issues with this same outfit. Mention of their name in at least a few B&M shops in Houston will generally bring you a rolling eyes type emotion from others. Sure, accidents happen, but they seem to happen just a bit too often with these folks and never in the favor of the buyer from what I've heard. Accidents would tend to go both ways, if they were accidents.......... so draw your own conclusions.
I'd just say for those that read this thread, use caution and act accordingly.
You can probably find what you are after elsewhere, but that's just my opinion.
John Marnard Keynes, The Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920, page 235ff
I've only had one transaction with Scottsman Sr. (back in 1988 at an ANA show) and the menory of that "negotiation" was enough to last me a lifetime. Looks like Deadhorse and I have something in common.
roadrunner
he paid for. then procede to sell it to another person without thinking
in the least bit.
then this other dealer knowing he got a rip procedes to sell it as fast
as possible probably due to the fact he KNOWS he got a rip.
ethics in the coin business? not when there is money to be made! ;-)
my point is the dealer who picked up the wrong lot probably knew
a mistake was made. or are dealers dumber then i thought?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
the auction house for the lot in full?
did they pay for the other coin board?
all i know is if I, I, picked up the wrong lot i would have an auction
house demanding i pay for the crap in full.
you can bet on it. selling it as fast as you can is not an excuse.
i would be hunted down. betcha betcha