Geeze! (HRLASER)That thread gave me a headache. Since you have all that time to put those Engineering Specs on your thread, I need a new brake job on my Truck. Can You Help?
<< <i>Geeze! (HRLASER)That thread gave me a headache. Since you have all that time to put those Engineering Specs on your thread, I need a new brake job on my Truck. Can You Help? >>
No.
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I'm starting to be unconvinced these will go anywhere...and thinking about canceling my order. If anyone thinks I should do otherwise, and has a compelling reason not to, please PM me. 30k sets is WAY too many for platinum, I have to admit I didn't think that mintage number would stand, but it appears it may -- sometime into February. In the words of Scrooge, Humbug.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
<< <i>I'm starting to be unconvinced these will go anywhere...and thinking about canceling my order. If anyone thinks I should do otherwise, and has a compelling reason not to, please PM me. 30k sets is WAY too many for platinum, I have to admit I didn't think that mintage number would stand, but it appears it may -- sometime into February. In the words of Scrooge, Humbug. >>
Only compelling reason is you can turn around and sell the unopened set to a dealer for at least a $50 profit.
<< <i>I'm starting to be unconvinced these will go anywhere...and thinking about canceling my order. If anyone thinks I should do otherwise, and has a compelling reason not to, please PM me. 30k sets is WAY too many for platinum, I have to admit I didn't think that mintage number would stand, but it appears it may -- sometime into February. In the words of Scrooge, Humbug. >>
Remember the number of sets submitted to PCGS will be far fewer than the 30,000 max. My guess would be less than 5,000 10th anniversary sets total will be submitted to PCGS, with probably less than 3,000 of those eligible for the First Strike® designation. IMO, the sets eligible for the First Strike® designation will do best if you are looking for a quick flip, especially the PR70's.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
it's hard to know what to do, isn't it.. this one's a real puzzler.. i expected a fast sell-out.. just look at this thread.. three hundred postings or so.. everyone with his own opinion, which radically conflict with each other.. some people who ordered are cancelling.. some people who had no intention of ordering are ordering.. sales numbers flying all over the place, but no one really knows for sure.. what IS for sure is that Platinum is at an all-time high.. over $1500/oz.. to buy or not to buy.. to open or not to open.. to slab or not to slab.. but i'll tell ya one thing, and this is only my opinion, for whatever it's worth (which may very well be nothing).. unless i am convinced otherwise by a very compelling argument based on FACTS.. i'm going to let my order for one set stand.. but i will NOT sell the un-opened set to a dealer for $50.00 over what i paid / pay for it.. no way Jose'.. i'm fully prepared to sit on it for one, two, three years, if that's what it takes.. the main conumdrum in my mind is whether to open the box or send it in to PCGS and hope for the holy of holies 70 slabs.. no matter how man of these sets are sold.. how many are going to remain in their original capsules, so they'll fit in the wood case?.. like someone else said, original display packaging has something in its favor (with his Antiques Roadshow reference)..
and here's something totally unrelated you might want to ponder.. i was looking at dealer ads in the latest NN last night.. many dealers advertising the first three First Spouse Golds.. ALL of them had Jefferson's Liberty priced $100.00 higher than Martha and Abagail..
ask yourself why..
i was telling friends that the non-Spouse examples in that series (half a dozen Presidents, i think).. are going to be the more valuable ones as time goes by.. not much time has gone by yet, and that's already proving to be correct, based on what dealers are asking for the first three coins.. Proofs or Uncs., doesn't matter, Jefferson's Liberty is $100.00 higher in every dealer ad i saw.. those and the ones that end up with low Mintages because of the (un)popularity of the President depicted.. i mean can you imagine a mad rush to buy coins with Polk or Harding's wife on them?.. waaaaaaaaaay down the road, years from now, i'd expect Jackie Kennedy to be an immediate sell-out.. but i can't see people pushing each other out of the way to buy Pat Nixon..
of course, prices on Modern material changes rapidly.. so rapidly that it's hard to keep up with it.. it's almost a full-time job.. but despite their high price, and despite the gorgeous wood cases, and despite the identical Mintage limits.. i don't think all of these First Spouse Golds are going to be trading at the same price as time goes by.. just a wild hunch.. i also don't think the Platinum set is going to be a dud.. as time goes by.. if one is prepared to give it time..
Thanks Harv
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I especially liked your comment about Jackie's coin. >>
Hi.. Alan!.. how ya doing?.. you used to post to R.c.c. a lot but i haven't seen you there for years.. still doing your show?..
Thanks Harv
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
IMO, dealer pricing in coin publication ads don't reflect real market pricing. In the open market like eBay and Teletrade, the First Strike® PCGS PR70 Madison, Abigal & Martha Proofs are the highest priced by far with the Jefferson's Liberty Proof last, and then the uncirculated First Spouse options. Long term, I feel the First Strike® First Spouse Proofs will do the best as they are a limited population compared to the total mintage which is historically the lowest ever for a Proof gold commemorative.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
So IF the mint doesn't sell any plats after Dec 31st like someone said and they don't ship until the 31st, then wouldn't that make every single one eligible for first strike regardless of when it was minted? Some won't send them in in that time period, but all technically could be first strike. That seems a bit silly doesn't it?
<< <i>IMO, dealer pricing in coin publication ads don't reflect real market pricing. In the open market like eBay and Teletrade, the First Strike® PCGS PR70 Madison, Abigal & Martha Proofs are the highest priced by far with the Jefferson's Liberty Proof last, and then the uncirculated First Spouse options. Long term, I feel the First Strike® First Spouse Proofs will do the best as they are a limited population compared to the total mintage which is historically the lowest ever for a Proof gold commemorative. >>
believe it or not, there are coin collectors who do NOT use eBay or TeleTrade, and buy from Dealers' magazine ads.. not everyone in this country is as wired as the people using these boards.. i had my fortieth High School Class Reunion two months ago and you wouldn't believe how many of my Classmates (who all went to a very upscale school in a VERY wealthy neighborhood (and no, my family was not and i am not wealthy in the currently accepted sense of the word).. how many of them had NO CLUE how to play an .MP3 file, or even what it was.. these people still go to stores and buy CDs.. many of them don't even own a home computer.. if all collectors bought all their coins online, then there'd be no Dealers paying thousands of DollErs a month to run all those hundreds of ads in CW and NN and The Numismatist.. people DO buy from those ads..
remember when The Mint had FREE shipping for Internet orders only?.. seems like ancient history now, but it was just a few years ago.. CW was flooded with angry letters to the Editor from people who didn't use computers, ordered by phone or mail, and had to pay shipping, while those who bought over the Net got free shipping.. then as you know the free shipping went away.. there are still plenty of people buying by phone or mail..
on the opposite end of the spectrum.. ask yourself why some people who ARE fully jacked in will buy CURRENT US Mint products that the Mint is STILL selling on their Web site (and i mean stuff with NO ordering limits.. like this year's Proof or Mint sets or whatever..) .. on eBay instead and often pay MORE for them on eBay.. are they iggerant that the Mint even HAS a Web site?.. pick ANYTHING that's currently for sale on The Mint's Web site with no order limits.. you'll find it on eBay being sold either by an individual or a dealer, typically at a higher price than The Mint charges.. same goes for those magazine ads.. 2007 Mint Set from The Mint. $24.95 or whatever.. from a magazine ad, $27.95 or more.. and if people weren't paying more to buy from those ads, then those ads wouldn't exist..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Harv, the reason why the dealers are charging an extra $100 is because they could only get 1 per household on Liberty and 5 on Abigail and Martha. Therefore, they had to pay a premium 50-100 and that is the only reason why they are charging more for the Liberty. If you look at the rate of 70's between Martha+Abigail compared to Liberty, you see that Martha has over 1,000 more coins submitted and less 70's than Jefferson.
<< <i>I have to sadly admit, that as much as I wanted this set
I had to cancel my order. Year end bills proved too much
of a burden to carry the cost of the set. I believe that this set
will be a winner and to those fortunate to obtain a set, the very
best of good fortune. >>
.. sorry you had to do that.. as i no longer have living Parents and my immediate family is only my Brother and his wife (and their dogs).. i am not blowing wads of cash on Holiday gifts.. sending mainly eCards instead of furiously scrawling addresses and sticking stamps on them.. i still have faith that the Platinum set will be a winner, in the long run.. how long, i don't know.. when they'll sell out, or when The Mint will take them off sale, i don't know.. i honestly don't think anyone knows.. at a limit of one per, unless that limit is removed, i don't think they're selling many of them as Xmas gifts to individuals except well-monied folks who have multiple addresses..
if i'm wrong about what this set does, price-wise, in a month, six months, a year, two years.. i'll admit it.. i'm not psychic.. but my order stands..
i DID cancel the order for the Dolley Gold Proof when i found out they would be sold into 2008.. if i find out otherwise, and learn The Mint is going to cut them off on 12/31/2007, then i'll grab one.. but i don't think that's gonna happen from all i've read..
the Jefferson Unc. is the only First Spouse coin i own.. it's in its original box, i opened the shipping carton the day i got it {{gasp! heretic! into the Iron Maiden you go!..}}.. and have no intention of having it slabbed..
now pardon me.. the mailman just handed me a package with a PCGS (OGH) PROOF PR65 1938 Mercury Dime in it.. i've always wanted one, and this is actually the first time i've ever held one in my hands.. i have to get back to coin lust..
(edited to say the 1938 Dime is a Proof.. wouldn't be nuttin' special if it was just an MS65)..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
We all figured the 30K was to high. Now we've been proven right.
Hopefully a second prediction will come true. That the 30K was just to cover the Mints A$$. Hopefully the Mint will stop selling them on 1/1/08 with the justification that anyone who wanted one could get one. Basically silencing the people who complained about the 20th Anniv. Gold set.
<< <i>Harv, the reason why the dealers are charging an extra $100 is because they could only get 1 per household on Liberty and 5 on Abigail and Martha. Therefore, they had to pay a premium 50-100 and that is the only reason why they are charging more for the Liberty. If you look at the rate of 70's between Martha+Abigail compared to Liberty, you see that Martha has over 1,000 more coins submitted and less 70's than Jefferson.
I can't wait till12-31 >>
FYI First Strike PCGS totals & 70's
MW PR....2292............363 MW MS....1562...........270 AA PR.....1112...........186 AA MS.....1434............347 TJ PR......1566............485 TJ MS......1601...........528 DM PR.....24............... 16 DM MS.....24.............. 18
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Hard to justify the cost of this two coin set. But I said the same thing when I bought the 10-year 1995-W gold proof set for $999 from the mint! Now I can sell it for what....around $6K?
I am ordering one tonight!
I just hope it appreciates as much as that other set did!!
<< <i>Hard to justify the cost of this two coin set. But I said the same thing when I bought the 10-year 1995-W gold proof set for $999 from the mint! Now I can sell it for what....around $6K?
I am ordering one tonight!
I just hope it appreciates as much as that other set did!! >>
Hmm.. where was i in 1995 when i didn't buy one of those?.. not actively collecting, of course.. where was i in 1997 when i could have bought a fistfull of Jackie Robinson Gold Uncs. for $200.00 each?.. not actively collecting, of course.. didn't get back into it until late 1998.. missed out on the RFK / JFK sets that year.. grr.. how much did The Mint sell those for? about $100.00? less?.. grr.. bought two 1999 Silver Proof sets at $30.00 each and thought i made out like a bandit when i re-sold one of them on eBay after they sold out, for $60.00.. wow.. that makes the order free.. then they shot up to $400.00 but have slid back to about $350.00 or so.. still.. ten times issue price.. ten times issue price is always my dream goal when i buy and re-sell anything and i've done it plenty of times, not just with coins.. will the Platinum set ever hit $20,000.00?.. when pigs fly.. did you have ANY idea your 1995 set would ever reach $6000.00 plus?..
i'm really tired of missed opportunities and i've missed plenty of them.. just hopin' this Platinum set makes up for some that i've missed.. if it doesn't.. c'est la vie.. it beats throwing money into a Video Poker machine..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I seriously doubt that $20,000 is realistic...but maybe a double or triple in price? That would be NICE! Hang onto it long enough - who knows? Maybe 20K is within expectations.....
Nope, never thought the 1995 10 year set would go up to where it is now. Who did?!
HA! I'm not even a collector...I just keep an eye on the more expensive sets with any eye towards lower mintage levels.....just like this plat set.
Last year I wanted to get that 20 year gold set. I sort of came up a little short at the end of the year after my Lasik op. Does anyone know what that is selling for now?
So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things!
<< <i>So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things! >>
if you're referring to last year's three coin (1 oz. each).. American Gold Eagle set.. (10,000 limit).. i think The Mint's issue price was $2350.00.. so it hasn't quite tripled in price (unless you get all three coins into 70 slabs. and then look out).. the set sold out in ONE HOUR!.. the three coin American Silver Eagle Anniversary set (250,000 limit).. which went up on sale on the same day.. took a couple weeks to sell out.. The Mint's issue price was $100.00.. in OGP, you can get one now for about $350.00 or so.. they peaked around $700.00.. at least that's what i sold two of them for on eBay, one opened, the other still sealed in The Mint's shipping carton.. as i posted before, i later missed the Reverse Proof, so i nabbed one in an NGC PR69 slab for about $250.00 or something off TeleTrade.. now that the price on the OGP sets has come down to about half its peak or less, i'm thinking of picking up another one just to stash away for the halibut.. odd thing about that set, or maybe not so odd.. is that the key coin in it isn't the Proof or, surprisingly, the Reverse Proof (although i think that one is by far the prettiest of the trio).. but the 2006-W "Burnished" Unc.. the population of those in PCGS MS70 is so low, in that grade in that plastic that single coin is selling for over five grand!.. but The Mint also sold the same 2006-W "Burnished" Unc. separately, in a little blue box.. you can pick up one of those in OGP for $75.00 to $90.00 or so..
would i pay five grand for an MS70?.. uh uh.. no way.. for that kind of money, i'd be looking at a red SVDB or some other key date "classic" coin.. Hell.. you could get two common date MS66 Saints for that kind of money..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
there were/are a lot more ASE collectors than Plat collectors. so I am positive many buying that set for one reason and one reason only. Just to get a W 1995 proof ASE.
in 1995 gold was what $385 an ounce plus or minus and these were marked up over 20% if my calculations were correct.
yeah, if the mint stopped production at 1,000. Now at 14,000 (minus 1 for bear) these are melt + nothing next spring...but than again, melt might be $1950.00. So, at least we can get our money back.
The cancel button is looking real tempting. As I said a while back...I waited a year for this.
<< <i>So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things! >>
if you're referring to last year's three coin (1 oz. each).. American Gold Eagle set.. (10,000 limit).. i think The Mint's issue price was $2350.00.. so it hasn't quite tripled in price (unless you get all three coins into 70 slabs. and then look out).. >>
The original Mint price for 20th Anniversary American Eagle Gold 3-coin set was $2610.00
I believe this 10th Anniversary Platinum set will have difficulty flying high due to its high mintage (14,000 plus thus far).
If platinum spot price goes up to $2000/oz by Jan.08, the set is at a break even, but if spot price drops to $950, watch out below.
<< <i>t's hard to know what to do, isn't it.. this one's a real puzzler.. i expected a fast sell-out.. >>
Actually this one was real obvious. A couple of people warned ya that 30k mintage on ANY platinum coin is a BIG BIG loser.
IF they stop selling them at the end of Dec., they are a winner (relatively low mintage, probably under 11k with cancellations). IF they don't stop selling them (and they usually don't), then it will be a big, big loser.
It can be very hard to know what to do on your own. It's always a good idea to figure out who has been "flipping" coins for awhile, and listen to their opinions. Lots of new folks in this game that see "limited mintage" or "reverse proof" and think they're instant millionaires.
P.S. I'm no expert, but I did foresee that 30k is way too high of a mintage for a platinum coin. Even if I hadn't foreseen that, there were several experienced forumites who said similar things. Find out who was right last time, who was right this time, and who will be right next time, then listen to them.
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
<< <i>So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things! >>
if you're referring to last year's three coin (1 oz. each).. American Gold Eagle set.. (10,000 limit).. i think The Mint's issue price was $2350.00.. so it hasn't quite tripled in price (unless you get all three coins into 70 slabs. and then look out).. the set sold out in ONE HOUR!.........
Every time there is a reference to the 3 piece gold set sell out, it gets faster and faster, pretty soon it'll be a 1/2f hour sell out. The way I remember it, and it was just last year, the sell out took place in 24 hours, not 10, 3, 2, or 1. I also remember a PCGS 1st strike 70 set that sold for $22,500.00
<< <i>t's hard to know what to do, isn't it.. this one's a real puzzler.. i expected a fast sell-out.. >>
Actually this one was real obvious. A couple of people warned ya that 30k mintage on ANY platinum coin is a BIG BIG loser.
IF they stop selling them at the end of Dec., they are a winner (relatively low mintage, probably under 11k with cancellations). IF they don't stop selling them (and they usually don't), then it will be a big, big loser.
It can be very hard to know what to do on your own. It's always a good idea to figure out who has been "flipping" coins for awhile, and listen to their opinions. Lots of new folks in this game that see "limited mintage" or "reverse proof" and think they're instant millionaires.
P.S. I'm no expert, but I did foresee that 30k is way too high of a mintage for a platinum coin. Even if I hadn't foreseen that, there were several experienced forumites who said similar things. Find out who was right last time, who was right this time, and who will be right next time, then listen to them. >>
I can guarantee you that just like the First Spouse Proof's, a PCGS First Strike® PR70 will be a big winner out of the gate. The key if you are looking to flip is no secret, order early and be one of the first to list before the big dealers flood the market. That is how you flip modern coins. I don't have a crystal ball, but what I do know is that sysytem works. I also expect the Reverse Proof to grade at least at the same level as last years AGE Reverse Proof which would mean at least a 50% PCGS 70 ratio. I would expect the first to be listed to bring the highest and then come down after the pop numbers are known. Long term a PCGS First Strike® 70 will always be in the most demand due to the limited population of the First Strike® designation.
Never teach a pig to sing. You'll waste your time and annoy the pig
<< <i>Watch the orders go up now! Maybe the prices on ebay will start to move also. >>
Why would the orders go up now? The Mint just announced that barely half the total mintage has sold.
Weren't you around during the TJ FS coins? When they failed to immediately double on eBay, thousands of orders got cancelled and the Mint reopened ordering for weeks..
I heard they were making a French version of Medal of Honor. I wonder how many hotkeys it'll have for "surrender."
Roughly half of the 10th anniversary platinum American Eagle two-coin set sold in the first couple of days they were available. The total was 14,682 out of a maximum of 30,000. Sales for the first week were limited to one set per household.
The 2007 annual uncirculated dollar coin set was added in the box at the lower right with a sales number of 31,778. This includes the 2007-W uncirculated silver Eagle.
Buffalo bullion gold coin numbers did not change this week, so perhaps it is now the end of the line for this 2007 piece as well as the 2007 American Eagle bullion coins.
Commemorative sales ended Dec. 14, so the numbers are probably close to ultimate total sales.
they are discussing the cancel button going away when you've punched in your order number for the Platinum Anniversary set on The Mint's Web site.. and people being charged.. i just checked my phone banking.. the charge was placed some time this afternoon, meaning the set may already be in the hands of Fedex (although it doesn't Track yet).. and i may get it tomorrow or Saturday (if i dis-remember incorrectly, Fedex Priority Overnight home delivery shipments are also delivered on Saturdays..) ..
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, I won't be laid a hand on.. I don't do these things to other people.. I require the same of them.." - John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
they are discussing the cancel button going away when you've punched in your order number for the Platinum Anniversary set on The Mint's Web site.. and people being charged.. i just checked my phone banking.. the charge was placed some time this afternoon, meaning the set may already be in the hands of Fedex (although it doesn't Track yet).. and i may get it tomorrow or Saturday (if i dis-remember incorrectly, Fedex Priority Overnight home delivery shipments are also delivered on Saturdays..) .. >>
<< <i>FedEx Priority Overnight Service Details:
Service Days Monday–Friday, with Saturday service also available for an additional charge. >>
Comments
<< <i>Geeze! (HRLASER)That thread gave me a headache. Since you have all that time to put those Engineering Specs on your thread, I need a new brake job on my Truck. Can You Help? >>
No.
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Successful forum transactions: jessewvu, nankraut, tootawl, levinll, mistercoinman, metalsman, adamlaneus, chuckc, fivecents, kingplatinum, jdimmick, waterzooey, moderncoinmart, bige, steelielee,
<< <i>I'm starting to be unconvinced these will go anywhere...and thinking about canceling my order. If anyone thinks I should do otherwise, and has a compelling reason not to, please PM me. 30k sets is WAY too many for platinum, I have to admit I didn't think that mintage number would stand, but it appears it may -- sometime into February. In the words of Scrooge, Humbug. >>
Only compelling reason is you can turn around and sell the unopened set to a dealer for at least a $50 profit.
<< <i>I'm starting to be unconvinced these will go anywhere...and thinking about canceling my order. If anyone thinks I should do otherwise, and has a compelling reason not to, please PM me. 30k sets is WAY too many for platinum, I have to admit I didn't think that mintage number would stand, but it appears it may -- sometime into February. In the words of Scrooge, Humbug. >>
Remember the number of sets submitted to PCGS will be far fewer than the 30,000 max. My guess would be less than 5,000 10th anniversary sets total will be submitted to PCGS, with probably less than 3,000 of those eligible for the First Strike® designation. IMO, the sets eligible for the First Strike® designation will do best if you are looking for a quick flip, especially the PR70's.
Box of 20
it's hard to know what to do, isn't it.. this one's a real puzzler.. i expected a fast sell-out.. just look at this thread.. three hundred postings or so.. everyone with his own opinion, which radically conflict with each other.. some people who ordered are cancelling.. some people who had no intention of ordering are ordering.. sales numbers flying all over the place, but no one really knows for sure.. what IS for sure is that Platinum is at an all-time high.. over $1500/oz.. to buy or not to buy.. to open or not to open.. to slab or not to slab.. but i'll tell ya one thing, and this is only my opinion, for whatever it's worth (which may very well be nothing).. unless i am convinced otherwise by a very compelling argument based on FACTS.. i'm going to let my order for one set stand.. but i will NOT sell the un-opened set to a dealer for $50.00 over what i paid / pay for it.. no way Jose'.. i'm fully prepared to sit on it for one, two, three years, if that's what it takes.. the main conumdrum in my mind is whether to open the box or send it in to PCGS and hope for the holy of holies 70 slabs.. no matter how man of these sets are sold.. how many are going to remain in their original capsules, so they'll fit in the wood case?.. like someone else said, original display packaging has something in its favor (with his Antiques Roadshow reference)..
and here's something totally unrelated you might want to ponder.. i was looking at dealer ads in the latest NN last night.. many dealers advertising the first three First Spouse Golds.. ALL of them had Jefferson's Liberty priced $100.00 higher than Martha and Abagail..
ask yourself why..
i was telling friends that the non-Spouse examples in that series (half a dozen Presidents, i think).. are going to be the more valuable ones as time goes by.. not much time has gone by yet, and that's already proving to be correct, based on what dealers are asking for the first three coins.. Proofs or Uncs., doesn't matter, Jefferson's Liberty is $100.00 higher in every dealer ad i saw.. those and the ones that end up with low Mintages because of the (un)popularity of the President depicted.. i mean can you imagine a mad rush to buy coins with Polk or Harding's wife on them?.. waaaaaaaaaay down the road, years from now, i'd expect Jackie Kennedy to be an immediate sell-out.. but i can't see people pushing each other out of the way to buy Pat Nixon..
of course, prices on Modern material changes rapidly.. so rapidly that it's hard to keep up with it.. it's almost a full-time job.. but despite their high price, and despite the gorgeous wood cases, and despite the identical Mintage limits.. i don't think all of these First Spouse Golds are going to be trading at the same price as time goes by.. just a wild hunch.. i also don't think the Platinum set is going to be a dud.. as time goes by.. if one is prepared to give it time..
Thanks
Harv
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I especially liked your comment about Jackie's coin.
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
<< <i>interesting thoughts Harv. thanks.
I especially liked your comment about Jackie's coin. >>
Hi.. Alan!.. how ya doing?.. you used to post to R.c.c. a lot but i haven't seen you there for years.. still doing your show?..
Thanks
Harv
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>IMO, dealer pricing in coin publication ads don't reflect real market pricing. In the open market like eBay and Teletrade, the First Strike® PCGS PR70 Madison, Abigal & Martha Proofs are the highest priced by far with the Jefferson's Liberty Proof last, and then the uncirculated First Spouse options. Long term, I feel the First Strike® First Spouse Proofs will do the best as they are a limited population compared to the total mintage which is historically the lowest ever for a Proof gold commemorative. >>
believe it or not, there are coin collectors who do NOT use eBay or TeleTrade, and buy from Dealers' magazine ads.. not everyone in this country is as wired as the people using these boards.. i had my fortieth High School Class Reunion two months ago and you wouldn't believe how many of my Classmates (who all went to a very upscale school in a VERY wealthy neighborhood (and no, my family was not and i am not wealthy in the currently accepted sense of the word).. how many of them had NO CLUE how to play an .MP3 file, or even what it was.. these people still go to stores and buy CDs.. many of them don't even own a home computer.. if all collectors bought all their coins online, then there'd be no Dealers paying thousands of DollErs a month to run all those hundreds of ads in CW and NN and The Numismatist.. people DO buy from those ads..
remember when The Mint had FREE shipping for Internet orders only?.. seems like ancient history now, but it was just a few years ago.. CW was flooded with angry letters to the Editor from people who didn't use computers, ordered by phone or mail, and had to pay shipping, while those who bought over the Net got free shipping.. then as you know the free shipping went away.. there are still plenty of people buying by phone or mail..
on the opposite end of the spectrum.. ask yourself why some people who ARE fully jacked in will buy CURRENT US Mint products that the Mint is STILL selling on their Web site (and i mean stuff with NO ordering limits.. like this year's Proof or Mint sets or whatever..) .. on eBay instead and often pay MORE for them on eBay.. are they iggerant that the Mint even HAS a Web site?.. pick ANYTHING that's currently for sale on The Mint's Web site with no order limits.. you'll find it on eBay being sold either by an individual or a dealer, typically at a higher price than The Mint charges.. same goes for those magazine ads.. 2007 Mint Set from The Mint. $24.95 or whatever.. from a magazine ad, $27.95 or more.. and if people weren't paying more to buy from those ads, then those ads wouldn't exist..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
I can't wait till12-31
Successful forum transactions: jessewvu, nankraut, tootawl, levinll, mistercoinman, metalsman, adamlaneus, chuckc, fivecents, kingplatinum, jdimmick, waterzooey, moderncoinmart, bige, steelielee,
I had to cancel my order. Year end bills proved too much
of a burden to carry the cost of the set. I believe that this set
will be a winner and to those fortunate to obtain a set, the very
best of good fortune.
Camelot
Better to pay the debt than dig a deeper hole.
I am still on the fence with this one.
<< <i>I have to sadly admit, that as much as I wanted this set
I had to cancel my order. Year end bills proved too much
of a burden to carry the cost of the set. I believe that this set
will be a winner and to those fortunate to obtain a set, the very
best of good fortune. >>
if i'm wrong about what this set does, price-wise, in a month, six months, a year, two years.. i'll admit it.. i'm not psychic.. but my order stands..
i DID cancel the order for the Dolley Gold Proof when i found out they would be sold into 2008.. if i find out otherwise, and learn The Mint is going to cut them off on 12/31/2007, then i'll grab one.. but i don't think that's gonna happen from all i've read..
the Jefferson Unc. is the only First Spouse coin i own.. it's in its original box, i opened the shipping carton the day i got it {{gasp! heretic! into the Iron Maiden you go!..}}.. and have no intention of having it slabbed..
now pardon me.. the mailman just handed me a package with a PCGS (OGH) PROOF PR65 1938 Mercury Dime in it.. i've always wanted one, and this is actually the first time i've ever held one in my hands.. i have to get back to coin lust..
(edited to say the 1938 Dime is a Proof.. wouldn't be nuttin' special if it was just an MS65)..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Hopefully a second prediction will come true. That the 30K was just to cover the Mints A$$. Hopefully the Mint will stop selling them on 1/1/08 with the justification that anyone who wanted one could get one. Basically silencing the people who complained about the 20th Anniv. Gold set.
Here's hoping.
<< <i>Harv, the reason why the dealers are charging an extra $100 is because they could only get 1 per household on Liberty and 5 on Abigail and Martha. Therefore, they had to pay a premium 50-100 and that is the only reason why they are charging more for the Liberty. If you look at the rate of 70's between Martha+Abigail compared to Liberty, you see that Martha has over 1,000 more coins submitted and less 70's than Jefferson.
I can't wait till12-31 >>
FYI
First Strike PCGS totals & 70's
MW PR....2292............363
MW MS....1562...........270
AA PR.....1112...........186
AA MS.....1434............347
TJ PR......1566............485
TJ MS......1601...........528
DM PR.....24............... 16
DM MS.....24.............. 18
I am ordering one tonight!
I just hope it appreciates as much as that other set did!!
<< <i>Hard to justify the cost of this two coin set. But I said the same thing when I bought the 10-year 1995-W gold proof set for $999 from the mint! Now I can sell it for what....around $6K?
I am ordering one tonight!
I just hope it appreciates as much as that other set did!! >>
Hmm.. where was i in 1995 when i didn't buy one of those?.. not actively collecting, of course.. where was i in 1997 when i could have bought a fistfull of Jackie Robinson Gold Uncs. for $200.00 each?.. not actively collecting, of course.. didn't get back into it until late 1998.. missed out on the RFK / JFK sets that year.. grr.. how much did The Mint sell those for? about $100.00? less?.. grr.. bought two 1999 Silver Proof sets at $30.00 each and thought i made out like a bandit when i re-sold one of them on eBay after they sold out, for $60.00.. wow.. that makes the order free.. then they shot up to $400.00 but have slid back to about $350.00 or so.. still.. ten times issue price.. ten times issue price is always my dream goal when i buy and re-sell anything and i've done it plenty of times, not just with coins.. will the Platinum set ever hit $20,000.00?.. when pigs fly.. did you have ANY idea your 1995 set would ever reach $6000.00 plus?..
i'm really tired of missed opportunities and i've missed plenty of them.. just hopin' this Platinum set makes up for some that i've missed.. if it doesn't.. c'est la vie.. it beats throwing money into a Video Poker machine..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
Nope, never thought the 1995 10 year set would go up to where it is now. Who did?!
HA! I'm not even a collector...I just keep an eye on the more expensive sets with any eye towards lower mintage levels.....just like this plat set.
Last year I wanted to get that 20 year gold set. I sort of came up a little short at the end of the year after my Lasik op. Does anyone know what that is selling for now?
<< <i>Does anyone know what that is selling for now? >>
OGP... between $4,700 - $5,200 on eBay
Greysheet .........$4,600 - $4,800
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things!
<< <i>So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things! >>
if you're referring to last year's three coin (1 oz. each).. American Gold Eagle set.. (10,000 limit).. i think The Mint's issue price was $2350.00.. so it hasn't quite tripled in price (unless you get all three coins into 70 slabs. and then look out).. the set sold out in ONE HOUR!.. the three coin American Silver Eagle Anniversary set (250,000 limit).. which went up on sale on the same day.. took a couple weeks to sell out.. The Mint's issue price was $100.00.. in OGP, you can get one now for about $350.00 or so.. they peaked around $700.00.. at least that's what i sold two of them for on eBay, one opened, the other still sealed in The Mint's shipping carton.. as i posted before, i later missed the Reverse Proof, so i nabbed one in an NGC PR69 slab for about $250.00 or something off TeleTrade.. now that the price on the OGP sets has come down to about half its peak or less, i'm thinking of picking up another one just to stash away for the halibut.. odd thing about that set, or maybe not so odd.. is that the key coin in it isn't the Proof or, surprisingly, the Reverse Proof (although i think that one is by far the prettiest of the trio).. but the 2006-W "Burnished" Unc.. the population of those in PCGS MS70 is so low, in that grade in that plastic that single coin is selling for over five grand!.. but The Mint also sold the same 2006-W "Burnished" Unc. separately, in a little blue box.. you can pick up one of those in OGP for $75.00 to $90.00 or so..
would i pay five grand for an MS70?.. uh uh.. no way.. for that kind of money, i'd be looking at a red SVDB or some other key date "classic" coin.. Hell.. you could get two common date MS66 Saints for that kind of money..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
in 1995 gold was what $385 an ounce plus or minus and these were marked up over 20% if my calculations were correct.
yeah, if the mint stopped production at 1,000. Now at 14,000 (minus 1 for bear) these are melt + nothing next spring...but than again, melt might be $1950.00. So, at least we can get our money back.
The cancel button is looking real tempting. As I said a while back...I waited a year for this.
Ren
One more.................eBay Link2
Why buy from the Mint when you can get PCGS-graded First Strikes under Mint cost????
Looks like a non-MS70 10th Plat R.P. could have some problems taking off if platinum is being passed over.
Although, 10th Ann. label + First Strike + first Plat RP ever could mean something pretty nice too.
This is an interesting dilemma.
***Anyone buy anything from the Mint today?....looking for latest order#'s***
<< <i>
<< <i>So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things! >>
if you're referring to last year's three coin (1 oz. each).. American Gold Eagle set.. (10,000 limit).. i think The Mint's issue price was $2350.00.. so it hasn't quite tripled in price (unless you get all three coins into 70 slabs. and then look out).. >>
The original Mint price for 20th Anniversary American Eagle Gold 3-coin set was $2610.00
I believe this 10th Anniversary Platinum set will have difficulty flying high due to its high mintage (14,000 plus thus far).
If platinum spot price goes up to $2000/oz by Jan.08, the set is at a break even, but if spot price drops to $950, watch out below.
10th Anniv. Plat set on Ebay
<< <i>t's hard to know what to do, isn't it.. this one's a real puzzler.. i expected a fast sell-out.. >>
Actually this one was real obvious. A couple of people warned ya that 30k mintage on ANY platinum coin is a BIG BIG loser.
IF they stop selling them at the end of Dec., they are a winner (relatively low mintage, probably under 11k with cancellations). IF they don't stop selling them (and they usually don't), then it will be a big, big loser.
It can be very hard to know what to do on your own. It's always a good idea to figure out who has been "flipping" coins for awhile, and listen to their opinions. Lots of new folks in this game that see "limited mintage" or "reverse proof" and think they're instant millionaires.
P.S. I'm no expert, but I did foresee that 30k is way too high of a mintage for a platinum coin. Even if I hadn't foreseen that, there were several experienced forumites who said similar things. Find out who was right last time, who was right this time, and who will be right next time, then listen to them.
<< <i>
<< <i>So it has basically tripled (or even quadrupled) in price? Damn.....well, I can see far away now. That lasik op was more important to me than the set was. I can't complain.
I wish these sets wern't so damned great looking. I know I will buy this as an investment to eventually sell....but when I think about it, I take it out and look at how beautiful the coins are. Then....back into my safe it goes! Can't get rid of the things! >>
if you're referring to last year's three coin (1 oz. each).. American Gold Eagle set.. (10,000 limit).. i think The Mint's issue price was $2350.00.. so it hasn't quite tripled in price (unless you get all three coins into 70 slabs. and then look out).. the set sold out in ONE HOUR!.........
Every time there is a reference to the 3 piece gold set sell out, it gets faster and faster, pretty soon it'll be a 1/2f hour sell out. The way I remember it, and it was just last year, the sell out took place in 24 hours, not 10, 3, 2, or 1. I also remember a PCGS 1st strike 70 set that sold for $22,500.00
<< <i>
<< <i>t's hard to know what to do, isn't it.. this one's a real puzzler.. i expected a fast sell-out.. >>
Actually this one was real obvious. A couple of people warned ya that 30k mintage on ANY platinum coin is a BIG BIG loser.
IF they stop selling them at the end of Dec., they are a winner (relatively low mintage, probably under 11k with cancellations). IF they don't stop selling them (and they usually don't), then it will be a big, big loser.
It can be very hard to know what to do on your own. It's always a good idea to figure out who has been "flipping" coins for awhile, and listen to their opinions. Lots of new folks in this game that see "limited mintage" or "reverse proof" and think they're instant millionaires.
P.S. I'm no expert, but I did foresee that 30k is way too high of a mintage for a platinum coin. Even if I hadn't foreseen that, there were several experienced forumites who said similar things. Find out who was right last time, who was right this time, and who will be right next time, then listen to them. >>
I can guarantee you that just like the First Spouse Proof's, a PCGS First Strike® PR70 will be a big winner out of the gate. The key if you are looking to flip is no secret, order early and be one of the first to list before the big dealers flood the market. That is how you flip modern coins. I don't have a crystal ball, but what I do know is that sysytem works. I also expect the Reverse Proof to grade at least at the same level as last years AGE Reverse Proof which would mean at least a 50% PCGS 70 ratio. I would expect the first to be listed to bring the highest and then come down after the pop numbers are known. Long term a PCGS First Strike® 70 will always be in the most demand due to the limited population of the First Strike® designation.
<< <i>Watch the orders go up now! Maybe the prices on ebay will start to move also. >>
Why would the orders go up now? The Mint just announced that barely half the total mintage has sold.
Weren't you around during the TJ FS coins? When they failed to immediately double on eBay, thousands of orders got cancelled and the Mint reopened ordering for weeks..
From our friend David Harper......
Roughly half of the 10th anniversary platinum American Eagle two-coin set sold in the first couple of days they were available. The total was 14,682 out of a maximum of 30,000. Sales for the first week were limited to one set per household.
The 2007 annual uncirculated dollar coin set was added in the box at the lower right with a sales number of 31,778. This includes the 2007-W uncirculated silver Eagle.
Buffalo bullion gold coin numbers did not change this week, so perhaps it is now the end of the line for this 2007 piece as well as the 2007 American Eagle bullion coins.
Commemorative sales ended Dec. 14, so the numbers are probably close to ultimate total sales.
Numismaster Link
thread
they are discussing the cancel button going away when you've punched in your order number for the Platinum Anniversary set on The Mint's Web site.. and people being charged.. i just checked my phone banking.. the charge was placed some time this afternoon, meaning the set may already be in the hands of Fedex (although it doesn't Track yet).. and i may get it tomorrow or Saturday (if i dis-remember incorrectly, Fedex Priority Overnight home delivery shipments are also delivered on Saturdays..) ..
- John Wayne, "The Shootist" (1976.. his final film)..
<< <i>in another thread,
thread
they are discussing the cancel button going away when you've punched in your order number for the Platinum Anniversary set on The Mint's Web site.. and people being charged.. i just checked my phone banking.. the charge was placed some time this afternoon, meaning the set may already be in the hands of Fedex (although it doesn't Track yet).. and i may get it tomorrow or Saturday (if i dis-remember incorrectly, Fedex Priority Overnight home delivery shipments are also delivered on Saturdays..) .. >>
<< <i>FedEx Priority Overnight Service Details:
Service Days Monday–Friday, with Saturday service also available for an additional charge. >>
Link
The Mint does not pay for Saturday delivery. If they ship on a Friday they would deliver on Monday.