<< <i>Since the 1/4 is putting on the most mileage in the mail, to and from customers and the USM (returns) - and even those from the forum sending some back for "so called" damage? (tick marks on BIG pics) again, IMO and a leap of faith - that the 1/4 this time will reign supreme as the lowest produced 08 unc w plat. >>
7/8-- I hope you're right. I don't own any unc-w's, but can't believe that there are available coins (in PCGS70, too!) with <5,000 sales and that they sell so cheap. The down side for ALL unc-w/proof plats is minimal and the upside is extreme. Suppose Pt goes to $10K per ounce in ten years? Suppose collectors and investors (who are looking for "real" assets after the recent crash of "paper" assets) recognize the value in plat eagles. 1995-W ASE off the charts at 25,000 sales. Virtually all APEs have at or fewer than 15,000 sales--huge potential upside.
NOTE: why aren't people talking about 2008 APE proofs? I believe they have the best chance of becoming the new kings--I think we're pretty certain that the Mint won't strike more...they're out of blanks. With Pt @ $2000 and dies good for ~500, they probably didn't press more than 5,000 of each back in April--just a guess. What do you think?
<< <i>Since the 1/4 is putting on the most mileage in the mail, to and from customers and the USM (returns) - and even those from the forum sending some back for "so called" damage? (tick marks on BIG pics) again, IMO and a leap of faith - that the 1/4 this time will reign supreme as the lowest produced 08 unc w plat. >>
7/8-- I hope you're right. I don't own any unc-w's, but can't believe that there are available coins (in PCGS70, too!) with <5,000 sales and that they sell so cheap. The down side for ALL unc-w/proof plats is minimal and the upside is extreme. Suppose Pt goes to $10K per ounce in ten years? Suppose collectors and investors (who are looking for "real" assets after the recent crash of "paper" assets) recognize the value in plat eagles. 1995-W ASE off the charts at 25,000 sales. Virtually all APEs have fewer than 25,000 sales--huge potential upside.
NOTE: why aren't people talking about 2008 APE proofs? I believe they have the best chance of becoming the new kings--I think we're pretty certain that the Mint won't strike more...they're out of blanks. With Pt @ $2000 and dies good for ~500, they probably didn't press more than 5,000 of each back in April--just a guess. What do you think? >>
Things will heat up for the Proofs as we get closer to June or they start showing backorder status.
I have pondered the proof question myself. The proofs are more attractive and will, I believe, have a better collector base into the future than the unc-ws will. AND, it seems HIGHLY likely that the 2008s will become the new keys. So where's the speculation/discussion? My analysis: we humans tend to only focus on the issue/crisis immediately in front of our noses. Right now, that is the unc-ws and the buffs. Once the first APE goes dark, however, all hell is gonna break loose! All available stock will be gobbled up. So final numbers will be whatever the Mint has sitting in their vaults.
BTW, I like your chart. One correction: you must add in the 18,000+ coins from the reverse proof set into the 2007 1/2-ounce APE number. Pretty dramatic, huh?
Proofs started selling 2 months prior to the UNC-W's. Proofs come with a production limit and they typically do a full production run on them and sell them for a year. Sales end up at what they end up...the rest go back to melt.
May 5 American Eagle Platinum Proof Coins for sale
July 1 American Eagle Platinum Uncirculated Coins for sale
Now look at the production limits for each denomination:
Sets: This product is limited to 10,000 units. Mintage limits for each coin across all product options are as follows:
So if they mint the proofs first then mint the UNC-W's with what they have left over and do not buy more platinum on the open market....there you have it. Also if you check sales of the proof plats you can see they are starting to get pretty high and yet nothing has sold out. They will sell into approx. May of next year....2004 will remain the Kings with 2007 a pretty close second. Too many speculators in the 2008's.
Groht, respectfully, I don't see it. Sales would have to almost DOUBLE to lose out to the '04. I don't think this will happen because:
1) People are tapped out by the buffs and unc-ws--and will be even more tapped after the HR double eagle comes out 2) Plats just still don't have that big of a collector base--those who need the proofs for their collections already have them 3) Very few dealers like plats, either 4) Flippers don't seem that interested in proof plats--just not low-mintage enough 5) The '08 design doesn't stack up very well with previous years 6) I doubt if the Mint minted anywhere close to the maximum limits. If I had to guess, I'd say they minted right around to '04 levels.
And I could be totally wrong, but it WILL be exciting to see!
I also remember the sequel: THE DRASTIC DROP OF 2007.
I can't wait for this years' movie, what shall we call it....?
btw, my repurchasing of 1oz, 1/2's at lower sales prices show the cancel box gone. I repurchased my sent-backs except for the 4-coin because I didn't think I was going to get one because it had already shown red. My 4-coin buffs show cancel box gone too. Purchase dates were 11-21, 22 respectively.
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade 1 1 13663147 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70 1 2 13663148 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70 1 3 13663149 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS69 2 1 13663150 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70 2 2 13663151 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS69 2 3 13663152 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70 3 1 13663153 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70 3 2 13663154 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70 3 3 13663155 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70 4 1 13663156 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70 4 2 13663157 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70 4 3 13663158 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70 5 1 13663159 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70 5 2 13663160 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70 5 3 13663161 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70 5 4 13663162 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS69 Total Items: 16 Date Received: 11/13/2008 Date Shipped: N/A Order Status: Shipped >>
Amazing. Maybe I'm looking too closely but out of 20 1oz. 2008-W unc. platinums I've had a chance to examine I'd say only 4 had a shot at MS70. Most had significant rim damage on top edge of reverse apparently relating to ejection from presses.
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade 1 1 13663147 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70 1 2 13663148 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70 1 3 13663149 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS69 2 1 13663150 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70 2 2 13663151 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS69 2 3 13663152 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70 3 1 13663153 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70 3 2 13663154 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70 3 3 13663155 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70 4 1 13663156 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70 4 2 13663157 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70 4 3 13663158 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70 5 1 13663159 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70 5 2 13663160 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70 5 3 13663161 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70 5 4 13663162 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS69 Total Items: 16 Date Received: 11/13/2008 Date Shipped: N/A Order Status: Shipped >>
Amazing. Maybe I'm looking too closely but out of 20 1oz. 2008-W unc. platinums I've had a chance to examine I'd say only 4 had a shot at MS70. Most had significant rim damage on top edge of reverse apparently relating to ejection from presses. >>
I picked these out of 7- 4) coin sets. I did not notice any with the rim damage you noted
Happy Thanksgiving to all on my favorite thread! I personally am very thankful I live in America, my family is fine and I can afford to buy a little gold and platinum, even if it only grades out to a 69. Also thanks to all who have served and who are currently serving, God bless you all!
Happy Thanksgiving, play nice the rest of the day.
Proofs come with a production limit and they typically do a full production run on them and sell them for a year.
Why would the Mint do a full production run on a group of coins that have not even come close to selling out for the past several years?
I could be wrong, but I think that the Mint would not have recently raised the price of the 1/10 oz. proof from $149.95 to $199.95 if there were still more than 15,000 of them waiting to be sold.
<< <i>BTW, I like your chart. One correction: you must add in the 18,000+ coins from the reverse proof set into the 2007 1/2-ounce APE number. Pretty dramatic, huh? >>
Thanks for thr reminder on the 2007 1/2's. I thinks that the biggest surprise was the low sales on some of the bullion APEs, which will continue in all denominations...
<< <i>Very nice chart...you should post that every week for us!! >>
<< <i>Why would the Mint do a full production run on a group of coins that have not even come close to selling out for the past several years?
I could be wrong, but I think that the Mint would not have recently raised the price of the 1/10 oz. proof from $149.95 to $199.95 if there were still more than 15,000 of them waiting to be sold. >>
I read somewhere (I'll try to provide corroboration), where the Mint said that they strike the current year based on the previous. I don't know if that's 100%, 50%, or what. They also said die life is about 300-500 proof and 5000 uncs. From this info., I'd say they did ~5-8K of each proof denomination max. JMO--nsf.
Not sure on the proofs, as they are stated maximum mintage, whether or not the USM produces all denoms to maximum in their first production run ? - they apparently did this with the 2007 Plat 10th Anniv Set
As for the 08 UNC-W's - they are different, no maximum mintage, but minted to demand.
In the UNC's is where you get the initial and subsequent production runs, the initial run to some percentage of last year or previous years mintages, probably also a cost component (given this years wholesale/retail costs shot thru the roof for initial release) involved as well.
This is why we think that the UNC-W's are much lower mintage than last year and on par with 06-w's. Also minted to a much less extent than the proofs (this is always the case).
IMO, no more than 80%, maybe more like 75% (for single coin products) of last years mintage was run initially, no more than 50% sets.
The low sales and high returns in July/August kept them from minting more UNC-W's. Followed by the October sale of REMAINING STOCK.
I dont think there was any other production run of 08-w UNC plats other than the initial run prior to July.
Not certain why what I sent back is important to you.
I stated clearly what I was doing in regard to all the moderns that are normally covered on this thread about a week ago. I bought 30 2008-w quarters, sent 10 dogs back and sold 10 to my friends. 10 is about as many as I ever keep of anything. The halves I kept rolling trying to end up with nice coins & I am keeping the 8 halves I am left with. I looked through about 16 halves in total. I have 4 tenths 2 are nice and I am keeping the good and bad.
<< <i>Are you guys selling or holding your Plat. Unc sets? They seem to be bringing about $2500+ on Ebay. For those sets to be parted with, hold or sell??? >>
At the risk of getting flamed for not posting in BST. I will say I bought 2 sets, one that I am keeping, and one that I would like to trade.
But I do consider it to be a special issue and would rather keep a duplicate set than "give" it away. Both sets are still unopened from the
Not certain why what I sent back is important to you.
I stated clearly what I was doing in regard to all the moderns that are normally covered on this thread about a week ago. I bought 30 2008-w quarters, sent 10 dogs back and sold 10 to my friends. 10 is about as many as I ever keep of anything. The halves I kept rolling trying to end up with nice coins & I am keeping the 8 halves I am left with. I looked through about 16 halves in total. I have 4 tenths 2 are nice and I am keeping the good and bad.
Eric >>
You do more research on coins than anyone I know, and since I share your passion concerning the platinum coins, I am curious as to what you are actually going to hold for long term. Thanks for the info.
<<ttt indeed. Why the crickets on this post all of the sudden?? Everyone out shopping?
Have a good weekend to all on my favorite thread.>>
Too cold for crickets...at least in New York!
But anyhow...until some new "sales" numbers...or whatever they represent...are available (hopefully revised downward)...I guess we're all talked out! Ditto for when backorders (which will likely be the final 2008 Buff and APE coins to be shipped...EVER) either start arriving or being cancelled in large numbers. That should perk everyone up again!
I think the problem is the Ebay sales for these platinum coins has been dreadful, and interest has dried up like the Sahara.
The buffalo coins though are doing well, much better which leads me to believe that the bullion platinum are hurting these W coins and that may continue for some time.
In contrast the buffalo coins have no fractional bullion coins that people can buy, it is the W coins or nothing.
Maybe right now the platinum are selling as a combined mintage in the consumers minds, they see the year 2008 and that is it. No mintmark or a W makes no difference.
I'm just glad I piled mostly into the buffalo and not these platinum coins, long-term the plats will do well but I am not sure what to make of this other than people hate platinum or don't think it even exists. Lucky for the coins the W ones have small mintages or else they would really be toast.
Here is one last thing on the platinum, if you consider the gold eagle W fractionals that have ended to become part of the bullion series in later years, then maybe the plats should be looked at in the same way. So if that is the case then there are a lot more platinum UNC coins that previously considered and also that series will continue. That could be either good or bad.
Anyway all I am saying is there is confusion on how these plats will play out is my guess but there is no confusion on the buffaloes. That is how they seem to be selling and it whey things have dried up on the plats IMO. The sales reports have also not helped the coins, although they must be overstated I am not sure by how much and I don't think anyone can say without guessing at this point.
on the platinum, if you consider the gold eagle W fractionals that have ended to become part of the bullion series in later years, then maybe the plats should be looked at in the same way.
One major difference is that the gold eagle W coins have the same reverse as the gold bullion coins - the only difference is the presence of the mintmark. The W burnished plats are distinctive because they have changing reverse designs, the same designs as the proofs, for each of the three years they were produced. This justifies collecting the W plats as a separate set from both the bullion coins and the proofs, although they can also be collected with either or both of the other groups also.
One major difference is that the gold eagle W coins have the same reverse as the gold bullion coins - the only difference is the presence of the mintmark. The W burnished plats are distinctive because they have changing reverse designs, the same designs as the proofs, for each of the three years they were produced. This justifies collecting the W plats as a separate set from both the bullion coins and the proofs, although they can also be collected with either or both of the other groups also.
This is true, however I think the market may see them as part of the bullion series even with the changing reverse just like the state quarters are still quarters. Unlike the state quarters though they did not put out state quarters with the old reverse as the changing ones came out. That is what happened with the plats.
The proofs though don't have that problem and it will be interesting to see if they behave differently, also all fractionals are cancelled, no bullion coins to mess with them.
Long-term I think the W UNC will do well but looking at past key coins I think it took 4 years four the 1995 W silver eagle to break $1000, and the Jackie R. UNC was still cheap for a couple years after release.
So I am guessing that the Plat W UNC and the gold W UNC could be seen the same eventually in the market regardless of the reverse, belonging as part of the regular bullion series in the eyes of collectors.
The good news is the numbers are still very small mintage wise for the plats. The 2008 W 1/10 sold less than Jackie R. UNC and nothing will change that. I have no idea why people are unloading them for just over cost but they are, and that can't last.
---------2006---------2007-------2008 $100....3068..........4177.........3138 and rising $50......2577..........3635.........3415 $25......2676..........3690.........4081 and falling $10......3544..........5556.........4643 and falling
2006 and 2007 are final final.
The sales numbers are not coins struck or shipped. It reflects orders only and sets a cap on how many coins there could be but does not tell us the striking run totals. The mint is taking more orders that it has coins to protect itself from coin speculators that have the nasty tendency to buy large volumes of coins and then dump them back on the mint. It needs enough orders in hand to cover this expected speculative dump for about 35 days.
The sales report in going in reverse right now on quarters and tenths as expected. We will need to see how the report goes for the halves this week. The 2006-w material my endure as modern rarity kings but its too soon to tell because we do not know if the going back order at 1250 coins on the four coin set was the real number and the rest of the sales could be but covering by the mint.
Halfs are never produced in excess of qtrs. Look for the halfs to be around 1100 as well.
Numbers will be decreasing for the next 3 weeks for "over subscribed" orders......or whatever you want to call all those orders in excess of inventory.
IMO, you have met your new keys - they are the 08-w PLAT UNC's..........all those who returned them will be crying about that move for years....
Halfs are never produced in excess of qtrs. Look for the halfs to be around 1100 as well.
Numbers will be decreasing for the next 3 weeks for "over subscribed" orders......or whatever you want to call all those orders in excess of inventory.
IMO, you have met your new keys - they are the 08-w PLAT UNC's..........all those who returned them will be crying about that move for years.... >>
Bold predictions in the face on significant adverse opinions.
But I like the way you are talking. And when/if the mint finally subtracts 900 sets from their tally I will post 1000 dancing smiles.
7over8 I own the plats myself so if I sound like I am dumping on them I am not trying to. All I am doing is trying to figure out what others are, they real numbers and the real potential of these coins. Historically they are the low mintages of the modern coins so that is a given, I still think long-term they do great.
It is important though to consider the buffalo fractional were a one year release, the plat proof fractional are an ended series.
The plat UNC may still be considered part of a continuing series is some collectors minds. Is there a chance the regular bullion have a dreadfully low mintage? I don't know but am just tossing that out there.
As far as the buffalo proof fractionals go, just compare them to the Eagle gold proof fractionals and see where they fit into that series, you might be surprised if my numbers are right.
<< <i>the PLAT uncs are more of a type design and is now closed. 3 yr type.
the bullion plats dont have a real collector base at all. >>
You must have seen the regular bullion selling on Ebay by now graded, I don't think that is the auto industry buying them. They must have a collector base or else the flippers wouldn't be getting them graded.
Now let's pretend for a moment the mint pulls a boo-boo and only does 1000 1/10 2009 plat coins. Will the 2006 to 2008 still be the low mintage kings?
I don't think so.
I think many see the bullion strikes just like they see the collectors strikes, or will see them that way long-term.
The changing reverse does bring in type collectors so it increases demand for that, but so far the 2008 W are selling like buggy whips on Ebay.
PS The 32 D and S quarters are still the keys even though the state quarters went to changing reverses.
These regular strike collectors might be what are gumming up the poor 2008 W aftermarket sales. If the 2008 W were struck at drastically low numbers I think there would be more demand than supply perhaps, but so far zilch.
Added, Check the regular strike pops, it looks like in MS70 for the 1/10 the 1997 to 2001 are the low pops for this set.
And let's not forget that when platinum ran up to $2200 there was a lot of melting going in, I wonder how much melting went on with the regular strike plats. Also a little of the 2006 W and 2007 W could have been melted along with them.
I doubt any 2008 W were melted as many paid over over melt to buy them or later at the lower prices after things crashed.
It seems though based on the registry set the W plat UNC are collected along with the regular strike bullion, and could behave as such. Just something to consider, no Kool Aid included though.
<< <i>7over8 I own the plats myself so if I sound like I am dumping on them I am not trying to. All I am doing is trying to figure out what others are, they real numbers and the real potential of these coins. Historically they are the low mintages of the modern coins so that is a given, I still think long-term they do great.
It is important though to consider the buffalo fractional were a one year release, the plat proof fractional are an ended series.
The plat UNC may still be considered part of a continuing series is some collectors minds. Is there a chance the regular bullion have a dreadfully low mintage? I don't know but am just tossing that out there.
As far as the buffalo proof fractionals go, just compare them to the Eagle gold proof fractionals and see where they fit into that series, you might be surprised if my numbers are right. >>
Sales numbers for reg plat bullion...taken from the mint...
This is true, however I think the market may see them as part of the bullion series even with the changing reverse just like the state quarters are still quarters.
True, but millions of people collect the state quarters in albums as a distinct set, not as part of a "Washington Quarter" series.
As soon as an album comes out for the 12 burnished plats, I expect to see an equally massive rush to collect them!
Comments
normally, we would expect these to be quite tame.
we have already seen 192 coins dropped from the 1/4 unc w plat sales figures, already at the high end of historical ranges,
and only based on the FIRST real week of returns, what does the next 3 weeks hold?
I suspect a drop of at least 500-600 more coins and subsequent cancellation of another 200+ orders,
IMO, total drop in sales figures will be 800++ coins from NOW. that's 1938-800 = 1138.
cant be on all day.
some wont read, but I suspect that most will.
<< <i>Since the 1/4 is putting on the most mileage in the mail, to and from customers and the USM (returns) - and even those from the forum sending some back for "so called" damage? (tick marks on BIG pics) again, IMO and a leap of faith - that the 1/4 this time will reign supreme as the lowest produced 08 unc w plat. >>
7/8-- I hope you're right. I don't own any unc-w's, but can't believe that there are available coins (in PCGS70, too!) with <5,000 sales and that they sell so cheap. The down side for ALL unc-w/proof plats is minimal and the upside is extreme. Suppose Pt goes to $10K per ounce in ten years? Suppose collectors and investors (who are looking for "real" assets after the recent crash of "paper" assets) recognize the value in plat eagles. 1995-W ASE off the charts at 25,000 sales. Virtually all APEs have at or fewer than 15,000 sales--huge potential upside.
NOTE: why aren't people talking about 2008 APE proofs? I believe they have the best chance of becoming the new kings--I think we're pretty certain that the Mint won't strike more...they're out of blanks. With Pt @ $2000 and dies good for ~500, they probably didn't press more than 5,000 of each back in April--just a guess. What do you think?
Platinum Sales Figures
<< <i>
<< <i>Since the 1/4 is putting on the most mileage in the mail, to and from customers and the USM (returns) - and even those from the forum sending some back for "so called" damage? (tick marks on BIG pics) again, IMO and a leap of faith - that the 1/4 this time will reign supreme as the lowest produced 08 unc w plat. >>
7/8-- I hope you're right. I don't own any unc-w's, but can't believe that there are available coins (in PCGS70, too!) with <5,000 sales and that they sell so cheap. The down side for ALL unc-w/proof plats is minimal and the upside is extreme. Suppose Pt goes to $10K per ounce in ten years? Suppose collectors and investors (who are looking for "real" assets after the recent crash of "paper" assets) recognize the value in plat eagles. 1995-W ASE off the charts at 25,000 sales. Virtually all APEs have fewer than 25,000 sales--huge potential upside.
NOTE: why aren't people talking about 2008 APE proofs? I believe they have the best chance of becoming the new kings--I think we're pretty certain that the Mint won't strike more...they're out of blanks. With Pt @ $2000 and dies good for ~500, they probably didn't press more than 5,000 of each back in April--just a guess. What do you think? >>
Things will heat up for the Proofs as we get closer to June or they start showing backorder status.
I have pondered the proof question myself. The proofs are more attractive and will, I believe, have a better collector base into the future than the unc-ws will. AND, it seems HIGHLY likely that the 2008s will become the new keys. So where's the speculation/discussion? My analysis: we humans tend to only focus on the issue/crisis immediately in front of our noses. Right now, that is the unc-ws and the buffs. Once the first APE goes dark, however, all hell is gonna break loose! All available stock will be gobbled up. So final numbers will be whatever the Mint has sitting in their vaults.
BTW, I like your chart. One correction: you must add in the 18,000+ coins from the reverse proof set into the 2007 1/2-ounce APE number. Pretty dramatic, huh?
May 5 American Eagle Platinum Proof Coins for sale
July 1 American Eagle Platinum Uncirculated Coins for sale
Now look at the production limits for each denomination:
Sets: This product is limited to 10,000 units. Mintage limits for each coin across all product options are as follows:
One Ounce – 16,000
One-Half Ounce – 15,000
One-Quarter Ounce – 15,000
One-Tenth Ounce – 20,000
So if they mint the proofs first then mint the UNC-W's with what they have left over and do not buy more platinum on the open market....there you have it. Also if you check sales of the proof plats you can see they are starting to get pretty high and yet nothing has sold out. They will sell into approx. May of next year....2004 will remain the Kings with 2007 a pretty close second. Too many speculators in the 2008's.
<< <i>Numbers on APEs that I have:
Platinum Sales Figures >>
Very nice chart...you should post that every week for us!!
1) People are tapped out by the buffs and unc-ws--and will be even more tapped after the HR double eagle comes out
2) Plats just still don't have that big of a collector base--those who need the proofs for their collections already have them
3) Very few dealers like plats, either
4) Flippers don't seem that interested in proof plats--just not low-mintage enough
5) The '08 design doesn't stack up very well with previous years
6) I doubt if the Mint minted anywhere close to the maximum limits. If I had to guess, I'd say they minted right around to '04 levels.
And I could be totally wrong, but it WILL be exciting to see!
I remember the BUYING FRENZY OF DECEMBER 2006.
I also remember the sequel: THE DRASTIC DROP OF 2007.
I can't wait for this years' movie, what shall we call it....?
btw, my repurchasing of 1oz, 1/2's at lower sales prices show the cancel box gone. I repurchased my sent-backs except for the 4-coin because I didn't think I was going to get one because it had already shown red. My 4-coin buffs show cancel box gone too. Purchase dates were 11-21, 22 respectively.
Ren
<< <i>Got Grades !!!!!
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 13663147 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70
1 2 13663148 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70
1 3 13663149 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS69
2 1 13663150 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70
2 2 13663151 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS69
2 3 13663152 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70
3 1 13663153 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70
3 2 13663154 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70
3 3 13663155 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70
4 1 13663156 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70
4 2 13663157 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70
4 3 13663158 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70
5 1 13663159 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70
5 2 13663160 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70
5 3 13663161 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70
5 4 13663162 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS69
Total Items: 16
Date Received: 11/13/2008
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: Shipped >>
Amazing.
Maybe I'm looking too closely but out of 20 1oz. 2008-W unc. platinums I've had a chance to examine I'd say only 4 had a shot at MS70.
Most had significant rim damage on top edge of reverse apparently relating to ejection from presses.
<< <i>
<< <i>Got Grades !!!!!
Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
1 1 13663147 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70
1 2 13663148 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS70
1 3 13663149 393078 2008-W $10 Statue of Liberty US MS69
2 1 13663150 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70
2 2 13663151 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS69
2 3 13663152 393080 2008-W $25 Statue of Liberty US MS70
3 1 13663153 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70
3 2 13663154 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70
3 3 13663155 393082 2008-W $50 Statue of Liberty US MS70
4 1 13663156 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70
4 2 13663157 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70
4 3 13663158 393084 2008-W $100 Statue of Liberty US MS70
5 1 13663159 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70
5 2 13663160 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70
5 3 13663161 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS70
5 4 13663162 395698 2008-W $10 Louisa Adams US MS69
Total Items: 16
Date Received: 11/13/2008
Date Shipped: N/A
Order Status: Shipped >>
Amazing.
Maybe I'm looking too closely but out of 20 1oz. 2008-W unc. platinums I've had a chance to examine I'd say only 4 had a shot at MS70.
Most had significant rim damage on top edge of reverse apparently relating to ejection from presses. >>
I picked these out of 7- 4) coin sets. I did not notice any with the rim damage you noted
<< <i>Lets keep to the thread content which is (silver, gold, platinum eagles, mints intentions, historical & current sales.) Not personal grades.
You may wish to pm if you feel it necessary. >>
When I want your opinion, I will give it to you!!!
Happy Thanksgiving, play nice the rest of the day.
Why would the Mint do a full production run on a group of coins that have not even come close to selling out for the past several years?
I could be wrong, but I think that the Mint would not have recently raised the price of the 1/10 oz. proof from $149.95 to $199.95 if there were still more than 15,000 of them waiting to be sold.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>BTW, I like your chart. One correction: you must add in the 18,000+ coins from the reverse proof set into the 2007 1/2-ounce APE number. Pretty dramatic, huh? >>
Thanks for thr reminder on the 2007 1/2's. I thinks that the biggest surprise was the low sales on some of the bullion APEs, which will continue in all denominations...
<< <i>Very nice chart...you should post that every week for us!!
Thanks, I'll try and keep it updated.
Corrected: APEs' Sales #s
<< <i>Why would the Mint do a full production run on a group of coins that have not even come close to selling out for the past several years?
I could be wrong, but I think that the Mint would not have recently raised the price of the 1/10 oz. proof from $149.95 to $199.95 if there were still more than 15,000 of them waiting to be sold. >>
I read somewhere (I'll try to provide corroboration), where the Mint said that they strike the current year based on the previous. I don't know if that's 100%, 50%, or what. They also said die life is about 300-500 proof and 5000 uncs. From this info., I'd say they did ~5-8K of each proof denomination max. JMO--nsf.
As for the 08 UNC-W's - they are different, no maximum mintage, but minted to demand.
In the UNC's is where you get the initial and subsequent production runs, the initial run to some percentage of last year or previous years mintages, probably also a cost component (given this years wholesale/retail costs shot thru the roof for initial release) involved as well.
This is why we think that the UNC-W's are much lower mintage than last year and on par with 06-w's. Also minted to a much less extent than the proofs (this is always the case).
IMO, no more than 80%, maybe more like 75% (for single coin products) of last years mintage was run initially, no more than 50% sets.
The low sales and high returns in July/August kept them from minting more UNC-W's. Followed by the October sale of REMAINING STOCK.
I dont think there was any other production run of 08-w UNC plats other than the initial run prior to July.
I, for one, really enjoy your posts. I read them all and have found them very informative. Please keep on posting!
Thanks and have a great weekend.
Not certain why what I sent back is important to you.
I stated clearly what I was doing in regard to all the moderns that are normally covered on this thread about a week ago. I bought 30 2008-w quarters, sent 10 dogs back and sold 10 to my friends. 10 is about as many as I ever keep of anything. The halves I kept rolling trying to end up with nice coins & I am keeping the 8 halves I am left with. I looked through about 16 halves in total. I have 4 tenths 2 are nice and I am keeping the good and bad.
Eric
<< <i>Are you guys selling or holding your Plat. Unc sets? They seem to be bringing about $2500+ on Ebay. For those sets to be parted with, hold or sell??? >>
At the risk of getting flamed for not posting in BST. I will say I bought 2 sets, one that I am keeping, and one that I would like to trade.
But I do consider it to be a special issue and would rather keep a duplicate set than "give" it away. Both sets are still unopened from the
mint.
<< <i>Groht,
Not certain why what I sent back is important to you.
I stated clearly what I was doing in regard to all the moderns that are normally covered on this thread about a week ago. I bought 30 2008-w quarters, sent 10 dogs back and sold 10 to my friends. 10 is about as many as I ever keep of anything. The halves I kept rolling trying to end up with nice coins & I am keeping the 8 halves I am left with. I looked through about 16 halves in total. I have 4 tenths 2 are nice and I am keeping the good and bad.
Eric >>
You do more research on coins than anyone I know, and since I share your passion concerning the platinum coins, I am curious as to what you are actually going to hold for long term. Thanks for the info.
ttt
<< <i>ttt >>
ttt indeed. Why the crickets on this post all of the sudden?? Everyone out shopping?
Have a good weekend to all on my favorite thread.
Have a good weekend to all on my favorite thread.>>
Too cold for crickets...at least in New York!
But anyhow...until some new "sales" numbers...or whatever they represent...are available (hopefully revised downward)...I guess we're all talked out! Ditto for when backorders (which will likely be the final 2008 Buff and APE coins to be shipped...EVER) either start arriving or being cancelled in large numbers. That should perk everyone up again!
The buffalo coins though are doing well, much better which leads me to believe that the bullion platinum are hurting these W coins and that may continue for some time.
In contrast the buffalo coins have no fractional bullion coins that people can buy, it is the W coins or nothing.
Maybe right now the platinum are selling as a combined mintage in the consumers minds, they see the year 2008 and that is it. No mintmark or a W makes no difference.
I'm just glad I piled mostly into the buffalo and not these platinum coins, long-term the plats will do well but I am not sure what to make of this other than people hate platinum or don't think it even exists. Lucky for the coins the W ones have small mintages or else they would really be toast.
Here is one last thing on the platinum, if you consider the gold eagle W fractionals that have ended to become part of the bullion series in later years, then maybe the plats should be looked at in the same way. So if that is the case then there are a lot more platinum UNC coins that previously considered and also that series will continue. That could be either good or bad.
Anyway all I am saying is there is confusion on how these plats will play out is my guess but there is no confusion on the buffaloes. That is how they seem to be selling and it whey things have dried up on the plats IMO. The sales reports have also not helped the coins, although they must be overstated I am not sure by how much and I don't think anyone can say without guessing at this point.
The PLATS on the other hand - when sales numbers are corrected - will grab everyone's attention.....
One major difference is that the gold eagle W coins have the same reverse as the gold bullion coins - the only difference is the presence of the mintmark. The W burnished plats are distinctive because they have changing reverse designs, the same designs as the proofs, for each of the three years they were produced. This justifies collecting the W plats as a separate set from both the bullion coins and the proofs, although they can also be collected with either or both of the other groups also.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
This is true, however I think the market may see them as part of the bullion series even with the changing reverse just like the state quarters are still quarters. Unlike the state quarters though they did not put out state quarters with the old reverse as the changing ones came out. That is what happened with the plats.
The proofs though don't have that problem and it will be interesting to see if they behave differently, also all fractionals are cancelled, no bullion coins to mess with them.
Long-term I think the W UNC will do well but looking at past key coins I think it took 4 years four the 1995 W silver eagle to break $1000, and the Jackie R. UNC was still cheap for a couple years after release.
So I am guessing that the Plat W UNC and the gold W UNC could be seen the same eventually in the market regardless of the reverse, belonging as part of the regular bullion series in the eyes of collectors.
The good news is the numbers are still very small mintage wise for the plats. The 2008 W 1/10 sold less than Jackie R. UNC and nothing will change that. I have no idea why people are unloading them for just over cost but they are, and that can't last.
<< <i> >>
I am performing a Vulcan mind link with halfstrike on that last post.....
and .....nothing!!!
Sorry guys...
<< <i>
<< <i> >>
I am performing a Vulcan mind link with halfstrike on that last post.....
and .....nothing!!!
Sorry guys... >>
This message boards posts without words, did some programmer miss the morning coffee??
---------2006---------2007-------2008
$100....3068..........4177.........3138 and rising
$50......2577..........3635.........3415
$25......2676..........3690.........4081 and falling
$10......3544..........5556.........4643 and falling
2006 and 2007 are final final.
The sales numbers are not coins struck or shipped. It reflects orders only and sets a cap on how many coins there could be but does not tell us the striking run totals. The mint is taking more orders that it has coins to protect itself from coin speculators that have the nasty tendency to buy large volumes of coins and then dump them back on the mint. It needs enough orders in hand to cover this expected speculative dump for about 35 days.
The sales report in going in reverse right now on quarters and tenths as expected. We will need to see how the report goes for the halves this week. The 2006-w material my endure as modern rarity kings but its too soon to tell because we do not know if the going back order at 1250 coins on the four coin set was the real number and the rest of the sales could be but covering by the mint.
Qtrs at about 1100, Tenths at 2046.
Halfs are never produced in excess of qtrs. Look for the halfs to be around 1100 as well.
Numbers will be decreasing for the next 3 weeks for "over subscribed" orders......or whatever you want to call all those orders in excess of inventory.
IMO, you have met your new keys - they are the 08-w PLAT UNC's..........all those who returned them will be crying about that move for years....
<< <i>Sets went dark at 1257.
Qtrs at about 1100, Tenths at 2046.
Halfs are never produced in excess of qtrs. Look for the halfs to be around 1100 as well.
Numbers will be decreasing for the next 3 weeks for "over subscribed" orders......or whatever you want to call all those orders in excess of inventory.
IMO, you have met your new keys - they are the 08-w PLAT UNC's..........all those who returned them will be crying about that move for years.... >>
Bold predictions in the face on significant adverse opinions.
But I like the way you are talking. And when/if the mint finally subtracts 900 sets from their tally I will post 1000 dancing smiles.
If you read my opinions posted, to date, most of them have been holding up.......
No thanks to the many naysayers on this forum.......they just keep drinking the KOOL AID
Yeah, the KOOL AID you are laddling out to them, LOL!
It is important though to consider the buffalo fractional were a one year release, the plat proof fractional are an ended series.
The plat UNC may still be considered part of a continuing series is some collectors minds. Is there a chance the regular bullion have a dreadfully low mintage? I don't know but am just tossing that out there.
As far as the buffalo proof fractionals go, just compare them to the Eagle gold proof fractionals and see where they fit into that series, you might be surprised if my numbers are right.
the bullion plats dont have a real collector base at all.
I dont buy KOOL AID, never liked the stuff....
But there is a great big jug you can DRINK from....!!!!! served up while you are reading the ORDER report....... oops! sales? report......
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>the PLAT uncs are more of a type design and is now closed. 3 yr type.
the bullion plats dont have a real collector base at all. >>
You must have seen the regular bullion selling on Ebay by now graded, I don't think that is the auto industry buying them. They must have a collector base or else the flippers wouldn't be getting them graded.
Now let's pretend for a moment the mint pulls a boo-boo and only does 1000 1/10 2009 plat coins. Will the 2006 to 2008 still be the low mintage kings?
I don't think so.
I think many see the bullion strikes just like they see the collectors strikes, or will see them that way long-term.
The changing reverse does bring in type collectors so it increases demand for that, but so far the 2008 W are selling like buggy whips on Ebay.
PS The 32 D and S quarters are still the keys even though the state quarters went to changing reverses.
The unc plat bullion is a non event. No collector base. Not there. Period.
<< <i>I think you'll see a HUGE turn around on those 08-w unc plats when the real numbers are known and if they are the new kings.....
The unc plat bullion is a non event. No collector base. Not there. Period. >>
If you look in the set registry, they have:
Platinum Eagles $10, Circulation Strikes (1997-present) (79)
Platinum Eagles $10, Proof (1997-present) (49)
The W UNC are in the circulation set registry and has 79 which is more collectors than for the proof coins.
Added, Check the regular strike pops, it looks like in MS70 for the 1/10 the 1997 to 2001 are the low pops for this set.
And let's not forget that when platinum ran up to $2200 there was a lot of melting going in, I wonder how much melting went on with the regular strike plats. Also a little of the 2006 W and 2007 W could have been melted along with them.
I doubt any 2008 W were melted as many paid over over melt to buy them or later at the lower prices after things crashed.
It seems though based on the registry set the W plat UNC are collected along with the regular strike bullion, and could behave as such. Just something to consider, no Kool Aid included though.
<< <i>7over8 I own the plats myself so if I sound like I am dumping on them I am not trying to. All I am doing is trying to figure out what others are, they real numbers and the real potential of these coins. Historically they are the low mintages of the modern coins so that is a given, I still think long-term they do great.
It is important though to consider the buffalo fractional were a one year release, the plat proof fractional are an ended series.
The plat UNC may still be considered part of a continuing series is some collectors minds. Is there a chance the regular bullion have a dreadfully low mintage? I don't know but am just tossing that out there.
As far as the buffalo proof fractionals go, just compare them to the Eagle gold proof fractionals and see where they fit into that series, you might be surprised if my numbers are right. >>
Sales numbers for reg plat bullion...taken from the mint...
http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sales&year=2008
1 ounce - 20,800
.5 ounce - 12,800
.25 ounce - 20,800
.10 ounce - 13,000
Now you know what their priority was...
True, but millions of people collect the state quarters in albums as a distinct set, not as part of a "Washington Quarter" series.
As soon as an album comes out for the 12 burnished plats, I expect to see an equally massive rush to collect them!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
