<< <i>Earlier in the thread, there was mention of Kevin Greene. During his playing days, I was set up at a show that he was signing at in Rochester, NY. The show was a dud, so we had some time to hang out with the signers. For LUNCH, he had 9 Big Mac meals. An awesome display that I have never forgotten. I don't think that he was full!! Greg
I've got a story about Kevin Greene as well...When I was stationed in Hawaii, Greene came over for the Pro Bowl. I had a white panel football that I planned on having all the Pro Bowlers sign..Well, Greene was the first to sign it and he took up ONE ENTIRE PANEL/SIDE of the football!!! He signed as large as possible "Kevin Greene, All-Time NFL Sack Leader- Linebacker"...lol
I had to purchase another football ($50) to get other players to sign in..Missed out on Cris Carter and Steve Young during that time...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Just found this on the NFL network site. Should be intersting.
Top 10 Players Not in the Hall of Fame –- July 29 at 8 p.m. ET: Ricky Watters, Kenny "The Snake" Stabler and "Bullet" Bob Hayes are a few of the legendary players still awaiting their day in Canton. NFL’s Top 10 takes a look at the top players who have not been voted into the Hall of Fame.
<< <i>Just found this on the NFL network site. Should be intersting.
Top 10 Players Not in the Hall of Fame –- July 29 at 8 p.m. ET: Ricky Watters, Kenny "The Snake" Stabler and "Bullet" Bob Hayes are a few of the legendary players still awaiting their day in Canton. NFL’s Top 10 takes a look at the top players who have not been voted into the Hall of Fame. >>
Sweet..I watch all of the Top 10 shows. Sounds like something right up our ally!
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Upcoming: » Quarterback Controversies -- June 10 at 8 p.m. ET » Tight Ends -- June 17 at 8 p.m. ET » Super Bowl Performances –- June 24 at 8 p.m. ET » Cornerback Tandems -- July 8 at 8 p.m. ET » Characters -- July 15 at 8 p.m. ET » Most Feared Tacklers -– July 22 at 8 p.m. ET » Players Not in the Hall of Fame –- July 29 at 8 p.m. ET » Biggest Upsets -– Aug. 5 at 8 p.m. ET » Home Field Advantages –- Sept. 6 at 9 p.m. ET » Gutsiest Performances -– Sept. 13 at 9 p.m. ET » Football Families –- Sept. 20 at 9 p.m. ET » Comebacks -- Sept. 27 at 9 p.m. ET
Got my 380 card order from PSA today. If anyone is still doing Heisman or team sets, there is plenty of stuff in there. Also a few HOF'ers and future hof'ers.
FoxSports.com's Jay Glazer reports that Michael Strahan has decided to retire.
"It's time. I'm done," Strahan said, who wanted to let teammates know before minicamp. While Strahan will be remembered for his record 22.5 sack season and his big mouth, he's a Hall-of-Famer because he was also consistently strong against the run. Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre and Warren Sapp in five years. The Giants pass rush will suffer, but they are well equipped to move Justin Tuck outside and use Mathias Kiwanuka more as a pass rusher.
Well, there is a 2nd first ballot guy (along with Favre) for 2013.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre
when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record.
<< <i>when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record. >>
That would be just awesome!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre
when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record. >>
Strahan is a HOF without that sack and without that record. If you watch the play, he was coing at Favre untouched. Only other thing Favre could have donw was try and get off an errant pass and get drilled. Favre wasn't an "iron man" by accident. He knew when to hold em and when to fold em...lol
Strahan was THE dominant DE of his era.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I was just looking over a February 2007 printout of my HOF rookies set, and I noticed that a few cards made some pretty significant jumps in the pop reports:
’84 Stephenson PSA 9 – 18 to 60 PSA 10 – 0 to 4
’77 Casper PSA 9 – 14 to 28
’76 Payton PSA 9 – 294 to 335
’77 Selmon PSA 9 – 14 to 44 PSA 10 – 0 to 3
’72 Riggins PSA 9 – 38 to 61
’72 Hendricks PSA 9 – 8 to 19
’70 Stenerud PSA 9 – 13 to 25
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>Strahan is a HOF without that sack and without that record. If you watch the play, he was coing at Favre untouched. Only other thing Favre could have donw was try and get off an errant pass and get drilled. Favre wasn't an "iron man" by accident. He knew when to hold em and when to fold em...lol >>
Don't forget though Jason, that play came late in the 4th quarter of a game the Packers had won easily at Giants Stadium. The Pack had absolutely no business throwing the ball at that point in the game. It should have been run, run, run, punt. That's what makes the whole thing seem so staged and shady. I'm no Mark Gastineau fan, but he got robbed.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I was just looking over a February 2007 printout of my HOF rookies set, and I noticed that a few cards made some pretty significant jumps in the pop reports:
’84 Stephenson PSA 9 – 18 to 60 PSA 10 – 0 to 4
’77 Casper PSA 9 – 14 to 28
’76 Payton PSA 9 – 294 to 335
’77 Selmon PSA 9 – 14 to 44 PSA 10 – 0 to 3
’72 Riggins PSA 9 – 38 to 61
’72 Hendricks PSA 9 – 8 to 19
’70 Stenerud PSA 9 – 13 to 25 >>
I bet at least half of these are new grades are 4SC...lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i> Don't forget though Jason, that play came late in the 4th quarter of a game the Packers had won easily at Giants Stadium. The Pack had absolutely no business throwing the ball at that point in the game. It should have been run, run, run, punt. That's what makes the whole thing seem so staged and shady. I'm no Mark Gastineau fan, but he got robbed. >>
Regardless of how you want to define that play, it shouldn't dimish Strahan's career and his place in the HOF...Take that sack away, give the record back to Gastineau and Strahan still goes to the HOF while Gastineau still doesn't make the top 25 semi-finalists.
Ironically..Gastineau's last year as a HOF candidate? 2013..The year Strahan becomes eligible.
For the record, when that sack occured the score was 34-25 Packers with 2:50 left in the game. It was following an onside kick after the Giants had just driven 99 yards for a TD. Giving up the sack rather than throwing it away also kept the clock running and made the Giants use their final timeout. That's not to say Favre didn't plan it or give it to him though...IMO, it doesn't really matter. It is what it is...
Here's the official play-by-play log:
3-1-GB 1 (2:54) R.Dayne right guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. R.Dayne rushes right end. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS. Green Bay Packers at 02:50 (Onside Kick formation) O.Pochman kicks 28 yards from NYG 30 to GB 42, out of bounds. 1-10-GB 42 (2:46) B.Favre sacked at GB 35 for -7 yards (M.Strahan).
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The play was a run to the left. The other 10 guys ran the play as called but Favre didn't hand off and did a bootleg right into the unblocked Strahan. They interviewed Mark Tauscher (RT) after the game and he was upset at what Favre did since he got charged with giving up the sack.
ROBERTSDALE, Ala. (AP) - Former NFL star quarterback Ken Stabler was arrested and charged with reckless driving and driving under the influence of alcohol.
Stabler, now a radio analyst for University of Alabama football, was released from jail on $1,000 bond nearly 13 hours after his arrest, police said Monday
The 62-year-old ex-Crimson Tide quarterback was pulled over for a traffic offense about 12:30 a.m. Sunday, said Brian Middleton, assistant chief of police. He declined to specify what led police to pull Stabler over in the town near the Gulf coast.
Stabler did not immediately return a message left at his office Monday. University officials had no immediate comment.
Stabler pleaded guilty to drunken driving following a 2001 arrest in Orange Beach. Authorities dropped drug and reckless driving charges under a plea deal. In 1995, Stabler pleaded no contest to a DUI charge in nearby Escambia County, Fla.
Stabler led the Oakland Raiders to a Super Bowl title in 1977, and also played for the Houston Oilers and New Orleans Saints during a 15-year NFL career.
He was on Alabama teams that won two Southeastern Conference titles, a national championships in 1965 and went undefeated in 1966. He has been the Tide's color analyst the past decade.
Have shine box will travel ------------ BOBBY ORR THE BEST THERE WAS! THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE! ------------
As a raider fan..its too bad that ken has had a drinking problem for a long time. I have agreed with a few guys here on the boards...he didn't dominate for more than a few years...and such doesn't belong next to montana and elway. however, for a short period he was a a winner...and the best qb in the business. Few qb's ever could match his passing accuracy when he had his "A" game going If he gets the hall call I would not be dissapointed. Hope this doesn't hurt his chances.
Collecting PSA... FB,BK,HK,and BB HOF RC sets 1948-76 Topps FB Sets FB & BB HOF Player sets 1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
Stabler apparently played a few games drunk too from what I've heard/read.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Reminds me that Dock Ellis said he pitched his no-hitter while on LSD (while the rest of his teammates were all doing coke) and David Wells pitched his perfect game enduring a serious hangover (although he suggested he may have still been a little drunk at the start of the game).
Sapp has a chance too, though I don't think he's a 1st ballot guy. 2011 has the best chance to break the record (whatever it is) for 1st time ballots. Deion, Roaf, Faulk, Martin and Bettis are all first-time eligibles!!!
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
If Seau retires, we might have our first ever 4 player first ballot HOF Class...
Obviosuly Favre and Seau would be the 1,000% guarantees...I think Strahan would actually go in before Ogden. So Ogden IMO, would be the 4th guy on the bubble, but my guess is he would make it...But don't forget, Larry Allen is a possible pending retiree right now which would make it a FIVE PLAYER 1st ballot possibility..That's the MAX modern you can have, but i really don't think Allen AND Ogden would both get in...That would be a TOUGH choice between Allen and Ogden...
2012 won't have any first ballot guys, but Curtis Martin and/or Jerome Bettis will be the top guys as Deion, Faulk and Roaf slide as first ballot guys in 2011.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>your right about 2011 too. some of these sr's might have some problems...also doesnt bode well for close recent retires either. >>
This won't affect the Senior candidates at all. HOF committee allows a MAX of 7 electees every year. Of those 7, MAX of 5 can be modern candidates. So the 2 Senior guys are not affected in any way by who or what votes are taken on the modern guys. They actually vote YES/NO on the Senior caniddates before they even break down the finalists from 15 to 10 and then 5. Those 5 modern guys get the same Yes/No vote process that the 2 seniors received. 80% Yes= election.
Interesting to note..Of all the current modern candidates, Bob Kuechenberg is the ONLY ONE to ever make the final cut but missed the 80% for election. That was in 2002. He's made the final 10 in 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2008...Can't get much closer than that. It's either him or Randall McDaniel going in this year...My money (again) is on Kuechenberg with Carter getting the Viking vote this time.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre
when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record. >>
I would expect nothing less from the czar. All he can do is complain about Favre. I guess Favre must have ruined his life somehow when he was youger.
Ahhh, the age old debate surfaces again...9 of these 10 are also in my personal rankings, but I think Earl Campbell should be here instead of Lenny Moore...Being a great receiving RB is all fine and dandy, but its all about what they do when they take a handoff..And i would take Campbell over Moore every time in that case...
Bottom line is, for all the Barry Sanders lovers here is another dose of reality...It's Jim Brown, hands down...
Top 10 RBs of All Time Don Shula, Marv Levy, Emmitt Thomas, Jack Bushofsky, Dan Reeves, Jerry Richardson, Robert Smith and Floyd Reese helped ESPN.com evaluate the best running backs in NFL history. ESPN.com weighed their contributions, balancing rankings with anecdotal evidence and statistics to create the following list: (ZOOM gallery)
1. JIM BROWN Career: Upon retiring before '66 season, the Browns' RB was all-time leader in rushing yards (12,312), all-purpose yards (15,549) and touchdowns (126). Quick quote: "Incredible combination of speed and power. As a defensive back, I'm happy he retired just as I came into the league, because my career might have been a lot shorter if I had to tackle him.'' -- Thomas
2. BARRY SANDERS Career: Sudden retirement in '99 came with the Lions' RB trailing only Walter Payton on the all-time rushing list. Ran for more than 1,500 yards in a season five times. Quick quote: "He's the only guy I've ever seen who could hurt defenders without touching them. He'd have them twisting their ankles and running into each other.'' -- Reese
3. WALTER PAYTON Career: Played on mediocre Bears teams until late in career but retired as leading rusher (16,726) in history. Quick quote: "The most complete back ever."' -- Shula
4. EMMITT SMITH Career: Smith, who played 13 seasons for Dallas and two for Arizona, took over as all-time rushing leader in '02. His 164 rushing touchdowns are the most in history. Quick quote: "Phenomenal and extremely tough player. Incredible balance and leverage.'' -- Reeves
5. GALE SAYERS Career: Knee problems forced him to retire in '71 after seven seasons with the Bears. At 33, he was the youngest person selected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Quick quote: "I used to watch him and say, 'How can anybody be that good?'" -- Levy
6. LADAINIAN TOMLINSON Career: The Chargers' RB has at least 1,200 rushing yards and 50 receptions in each of his first seven seasons. Quick quote: "He brings as much versatility as any running back ever has.'' -- Smith
7. MARSHALL FAULK Career: Began career with Indianapolis in '94 but was traded to St. Louis in '99 and became cornerstone of "Greatest Show on Turf." First running back in history to lead his team in receptions in five different seasons. Quick quote: "Could have been an All-Pro as a wide receiver.'' -- Bushofsky
8. O.J. SIMPSON Career: The Bills' great became the first player in NFL history to rush for 2,000 yards in a season when he gained 2,003 in '73. Quick quote: "He had it all. He had the same type balance as Jim Brown, and he could just keep going and going.'' -- Reeves
9. LENNY MOORE Credentials: One of Johnny Unitas' key weapons for the Colts, he scored a touchdown in 18 straight regular-season appearances between '63 and '65. Quick quote: "He may be underappreciated, but he was very similar to what Marshall Faulk has been more recently.'' -- Richardson, who was Moore's teammate for two years in Baltimore.
10. ERIC DICKERSON Credentials: Reached 10,000 rushing yards in 91 games (the fastest pace in history) and rushed for 2,105 yards in '84. Played for Rams, Colts, Falcons and Raiders. Quick quote: "He didn't look fast, but he was so long-legged that he could go the distance.'' -- Reeves
ESPN Total SportsNation Votes: 11,999 (#1 Votes)Points 1 Jim Brown (4,318) 102,075 2 Barry Sanders (3,535) 100,614 3 Walter Payton (2,587) 100,134 4 Emmitt Smith (945) 66,205 5 Gale Sayers (88) 57,258 6 LaDainian Tomlinson (337) 56,489 7 Eric Dickerson (55) 55,401 8 O.J. Simpson (65) 47,875 9 Marshall Faulk (55) 44,542 10 Lenny Moore (14) 25,661
My personal rankings: 1- Jim Brown 2- Walter Payton 3- Barry Sanders 4- OJ Simpson 5- Emmitt Smith 6- Gale Sayers 7- Earl Campbell 8- Marshall Faulk 9- LaDanian Tomlinson 10- Eric Dickerson
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
That's a pretty solid list I must say. Can't really argue too much. I'd bump LT2 up one and drop Sayers down 1 or 2, simply due to his extreme lack of longevity.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>That's a pretty solid list I must say. Can't really argue too much. I'd bump LT2 up one and drop Sayers down 1 or 2, simply due to his extreme lack of longevity. >>
Valid point..Although if Sayers had stayed healthy and played 11-12 years, he probably be sitting at #1 or #2 on this list...Putting him 5 or lower is BECAUSE his career was cut short..
While I wouldn't argue putting Tomlinson over Sayers for that reason, I'm not sure how he jumps ahead of or is better than Marshall Faulk. They are very close, but to me the tiebreaker is how important each guy is/was to the success of their teams. The Chargers keep getting bounced from the playoffs and Tomlinson just keeps pouting about it and blaming his Pro bowl QB. Faulk helped a no-name QB in Kurt Warner become an MVP and Super Bowl winner. The greatest show on turf would not have existed without Faulk..He was the gas that made that engine run...
Tomlinson could eventually pass Faulk in my eyes, but I will need to see him be the reason that team wins a championship. The success Michael Turner was having as his backup with the same lineup around him, to me, is another reason he drops a notch as well...What he does over the next 3-4 season will define his place.
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
If I'm asked who I like more, Faulk wins hands down. I lost a ton of respect for Tomlinson after last season, even after it was disclosed that his knee injury was worse than originally reported. Someone screwed that whole situation up pretty bad - either the Chargers brass or Tomlinson himself. In terms of pure talent, I give the nod to Tomlinson. The guy is amazing. If he gets a ring or 2, without a doubt he'll go down as a top 5 back. It'd be nice if he learned more about the team concept too.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>If Seau retires, we might have our first ever 4 player first ballot HOF Class...
Obviosuly Favre and Seau would be the 1,000% guarantees...I think Strahan would actually go in before Ogden. So Ogden IMO, would be the 4th guy on the bubble, but my guess is he would make it...But don't forget, Larry Allen is a possible pending retiree right now which would make it a FIVE PLAYER 1st ballot possibility..That's the MAX modern you can have, but i really don't think Allen AND Ogden would both get in...That would be a TOUGH choice between Allen and Ogden...
2012 won't have any first ballot guys, but Curtis Martin and/or Jerome Bettis will be the top guys as Deion, Faulk and Roaf slide as first ballot guys in 2011.
Jason >>
On Sirius NFL Radio, Peter King indicated he would put Ogden ahead of both Strahan and Larry Allen as a first-ballot inductee. Of course he is only one voter and it will depend on who else is in the pool of eligible players who have not yet been elected, but it is interesting to hear. Also, for those of you who have Sirius or have been thinking about getting it, PK is a guest host 2-3x per week on the Opening Drive which is (I believe) 8am-11am ET, and they are going to start having a weekly HOF segment to discuss the merits of which players belong in the HOF. I caught part of it this morning and they had Steve Sabol on as a guest caller, really good stuff. Interesting to hear that King is NOT in favor of putting Ray Guy in the HOF but IS a big proponent of putting in Steve Tasker.
On Sirius NFL Radio, Peter King indicated he would put Ogden ahead of both Strahan and Larry Allen as a first-ballot inductee. Of course he is only one voter and it will depend on who else is in the pool of eligible players who have not yet been elected, but it is interesting to hear.
Jasen >>
Yeah, I read that in his online column yesterday. He ranked them: Favre, Ogden, Seau, Strahan, Sapp, Allen
How he can rank him above Seau is mindboggling...Seau has fallen off recently, but the guy is ancient..Ogden really hasn't been great his last 3-4 years either and he's only been in the league 12 seasons vs. Seau's 18..In his prime (1992-2000), Seau was the best MLB in the game, hands down..Ogden has been ONE OF the best, but not THE best for an extended period. He's most definitely a HOFer and likely first ballot...But to put him over Seau is lunacy...
And Warren Sapp was better than Larry Allen? Sorry, I like Sapp but that isn't even close either. It should be:
1-Favre (not debatable) 2-Seau (not debatable) 3-Strahan (be interesting to find out how many times He and Ogden went head-2-head in games and what the outcome was) 4a-Ogden (toss up between him and Larry Allen) 4b-Allen 6-Sapp
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Bronko Nagurski was the best Running back ever to play the game hands down, he was THE MAN against real Men, this guy played through injuries, and in an era where football was a very violent sport and dominated.
Jason you being a Football Historian I am absolutely SHOCKED you didnt mention his name let alone be in your top 5! Is that because he was a Fullback and played Defense as well?
My Personal Rankings
1-Bronko Nagurski 2-Jim Brown 3-Barry Sanders 4-Walter Payton 5-Emmitt Smith 6-Gayle Sayers 7-Eric Dickerson 8-Earl Cambell 9-Marshal Faulk 10-Tony Dorsett
Im going to let L.T finish his career before I rank him, also it should be known that if it wasnt for injury Bo Jackson might have been the best Running back of our generation.
<< <i>Bronko Nagurski was the best Running back ever to play the game hands down, he was THE MAN against real Men, this guy played through injuries, and in an era where football was a very violent sport and dominated.
Jason you being a Football Historian I am absolutely SHOCKED you didnt mention his name let alone be in your top 5! Is that because he was a Fullback and played Defense as well? >>
Hey, I love Nagurski as well as many of the other great old timers like Marion Motley, Steve Van Buren and Clark Hinkle...It was a different game back then, and when you watch any of the (few) highlights they were tough and rugged and all that..But what they were not, was consistent.
Nagurski only played in 97 career games...Rushed for a grand total of 2,778 yards. He was a real bruiser and the face of the NFL at the time, but he never led the league in rushing once, he never dominated...To put him in front of Jim Brown is apocolyptic..lol..Jim Brown NEVER MISSED A GAME...Football was still more violent in the 60's as well, and the players athleticism was increasing towards what it is today. In 1935, the average size defensive lineman was 6-2, 224..In 1965, it was 6-4, 260...
For pre-war players, they REALLY had to stand out and be completely dominant to even be able to talk about them in the same discussion. Sammy Baugh, Don Hutson..Those guys TRULY stood above the crowd..Nagurski was an all-timer, but Clark Hinkle and Cliff Battles were just as good..They just aren't as famous or well known.
Just my opinion of course, Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
1-Bronko Nagurski 2-Jim Brown 3-Barry Sanders 4-Walter Payton 5-Emmitt Smith 6-Gayle Sayers 7-Eric Dickerson 8-Earl Cambell 9-Marshal Faulk 10-Tony Dorsett
>>
No OJ Simpson?? WOW..I hope that's because you hate him for what he is off the field, because on the field he was DOMINANT...Had he stayed healthy during his playing years and out of trouble later on, he'd be much higher on the ESPN list as well..Guy was amazing with the ball in his hands...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
After reading Monsters of the Midway-( the only info I ever had access to on Bronko ) it was pretty clear to me that he dominated that era, he would hurt guys like knock them out when they tried to tackle him! LOL It was pretty much common knowledge amongst his piers that Bronko was above everyone else in the league at the time.
I did complertely forget about OJ, no doubt he should be in there.
For the skill positions, I'd rank the following as the top three at their craft (era, dominance, uniqueness of ability and results):
Quarterback: 1. Otto Graham (10 years, 10 championship games, 7 titles) 2. Johnny Unitas 3. Joe Montana (I hated him, but . . . )
Running Back: 1. Jim Brown (Nothing else needs to be said) 2. Walter Payton 3. Barry Sanders
Wide Receiver: 1. Don Hutson (Head and shoulders above ANYONE else in his era) 2. Jerry Rice (Head and shoulders above anyone but DON HUTSON) 3. No one else deserves to be ranked NEAR these two!
<< <i>After reading Monsters of the Midway-( the only info I ever had access to on Bronko ) it was pretty clear to me that he dominated that era, he would hurt guys like knock them out when they tried to tackle him! LOL It was pretty much common knowledge amongst his piers that Bronko was above everyone else in the league at the time.
I did complertely forget about OJ, no doubt he should be in there. >>
I guess we should rank Mike Alstott #2 then??lol
Seriously, Nagurski was as big as the linemen back then..Same as Motley..Big bruisers no doubt, but to rank them above the Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders of the world is akin to ranking Alstott above Tomlinson..There just isn't a comparison..
Nothing in the stats or in the game footage I've seen of Bronko tells me he was better than Motley..Very similar in style and substance, I would rank Motley over Nagurski..Nagurski wasn't nimble or elusive at all..He was a straight ahead runner who was as big as, if not bigger than most of the D-linemen trying to tackle him..Great in his day, but not on par with the others on the list..The game is just too different, the way RBs are used are just too different...He didn't innovate, but what he did do (along with Red Grange) was bring pro football into being a viable sport.
This is all opinion of course, and we are each entitled to them..
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
As for the guys who changed the game or innovate it as you say i think Grange and Thorpe are the guys hands down They are the main 2 guys that defined the sport
Once someone butchers their ex-wife and a total stranger in a jealous rage, it's time for all sane folks to ignore their gridiron accomplishments and begin to regard them as one would Hitler or Charlie Manson ...
One item you can not over look regarding the real old timers like Nagarski, Hutson and Hinkle is the fact that they were two way players. They game was so different it is tough to compare to later eras.
<< <i>I believe when discussing any "All-Time" greats it should be broken down by decade, there are way to many variables that come in to play. >>
By decade? that may be taking it a little too far...The Pro Football HOF makes the distinction of Modern era vs. Pre-modern era at the year 1946. Pre-Modern Era is defined as the majority of a members' career that occurred prior to 1946. Modern Era is defined as a majority of a members' career that occurred after 1946.
I think for the sake of this discussion that is a fair assessment.
Top 10 PRE-modern era RBs (for perkdog..lol) 1- Steve Van Buren 2- Bronko Nagurski 3- Clark Hinkle 4- Cliff Battles 5- Ken Strong 6- Red Grange 7- Ernie Nevers 8- Bill Dudley 9- Tuffy Leemans 10-Tony Canadeo
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Once someone butchers their ex-wife and a total stranger in a jealous rage, it's time for all sane folks to ignore their gridiron accomplishments and begin to regard them as one would Hitler or Charlie Manson ... >>
OJ is scum of the earth..No doubt about that...For me, football is a getaway and I really don't pay attention to any of the off field issues regardless of what they might be..These are football players, they play a violent game and many of them are bad people. But for me, that doesn't subtract to what they do on the field. If it affects there team and teammates, then yes consider it part of their game...Otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that O.J. was near unstoppable for many years..Same with Lawrence Taylor...Or Michael Irvin or even Jim Tyrer (died in murder/suicide killing his wife and himself)...
Personally I have to separate church and state...But I understand why many others don't...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I know this has been discussed before, but it would have been very interesting to see how OJ's HOF voting would have fared if his trial had taken place before he was eligible for Canton. Say 3 or 4 years after his retirement. I tend to think he would never be a HOF'er if that were the case. Especially since he can't seem to stay out of trouble even now. No doubt he was a beast on the field. But he completely ruined that legacy.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
<< <i>I know this has been discussed before, but it would have been very interesting to see how OJ's HOF voting would have fared if his trial had taken place before he was eligible for Canton. Say 3 or 4 years after his retirement. I tend to think he would never be a HOF'er if that were the case. Especially since he can't seem to stay out of trouble even now. No doubt he was a beast on the field. But he completely ruined that legacy. >>
If I were voting now, he would get my vote...the HOF committee is not supposed to take any off the field issues into account when voting..We all know that isn't the case with many of them though...The vote is secret, someone with a hatred for OJ would more than likely not give him their vote...Question is, are enough voters on the committee like that who would deny Simpson the required 80% vote? We'll never know, but with OJ being such a slam dunk, 1st ballot HOF player on the field the entire voting process and by-laws they follow would be compromised if he were denied induction.
The guy deserves to be in prison, but he also deserves to be in the HOF. Watch his game footage because that's all that matters when it comes to this discussion. We aren't voting for the good guy HOF. This is football, the fields are litered with criminals...
Jason
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I understand HOF voting is supposed to be about what players did on the field and nothing else, but do you think the NFL would have wanted OJ standing at the podium shortly after the most publicized murder trial in history? Talk about a PR nightmare. Legions of people who don't understand the voting process would have condemned the NFL and the Pro Football HOF.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Comments
<< <i>Earlier in the thread, there was mention of Kevin Greene. During his playing days, I was set up at a show that he was signing at in Rochester, NY. The show was a dud, so we had some time to hang out with the signers. For LUNCH, he had 9 Big Mac meals. An awesome display that I have never forgotten. I don't think that he was full!!
Greg
Cameo web page >>
I've got a story about Kevin Greene as well...When I was stationed in Hawaii, Greene came over for the Pro Bowl. I had a white panel football that I planned on having all the Pro Bowlers sign..Well, Greene was the first to sign it and he took up ONE ENTIRE PANEL/SIDE of the football!!! He signed as large as possible "Kevin Greene, All-Time NFL Sack Leader- Linebacker"...lol
I had to purchase another football ($50) to get other players to sign in..Missed out on Cris Carter and Steve Young during that time...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
Top 10 Players Not in the Hall of Fame –- July 29 at 8 p.m. ET: Ricky Watters, Kenny "The Snake" Stabler and "Bullet" Bob Hayes are a few of the legendary players still awaiting their day in Canton. NFL’s Top 10 takes a look at the top players who have not been voted into the Hall of Fame.
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Just found this on the NFL network site. Should be intersting.
Top 10 Players Not in the Hall of Fame –- July 29 at 8 p.m. ET: Ricky Watters, Kenny "The Snake" Stabler and "Bullet" Bob Hayes are a few of the legendary players still awaiting their day in Canton. NFL’s Top 10 takes a look at the top players who have not been voted into the Hall of Fame. >>
Sweet..I watch all of the Top 10 shows. Sounds like something right up our ally!
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here is a list of upcoming top 10's
Upcoming:
» Quarterback Controversies -- June 10 at 8 p.m. ET
» Tight Ends -- June 17 at 8 p.m. ET
» Super Bowl Performances –- June 24 at 8 p.m. ET
» Cornerback Tandems -- July 8 at 8 p.m. ET
» Characters -- July 15 at 8 p.m. ET
» Most Feared Tacklers -– July 22 at 8 p.m. ET
» Players Not in the Hall of Fame –- July 29 at 8 p.m. ET
» Biggest Upsets -– Aug. 5 at 8 p.m. ET
» Home Field Advantages –- Sept. 6 at 9 p.m. ET
» Gutsiest Performances -– Sept. 13 at 9 p.m. ET
» Football Families –- Sept. 20 at 9 p.m. ET
» Comebacks -- Sept. 27 at 9 p.m. ET
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
BST Thread
I've also got the rest of my HOF'ers I still have listed on the BST board with prices if anyone is interested.
Thanks again for the all the sales. My wife thanks you.
I'm still going to the Nationals and will watch this thread for anyone who's going. I'll be there Wed - Friday morning.
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
FoxSports.com's Jay Glazer reports that Michael Strahan has decided to retire.
"It's time. I'm done," Strahan said, who wanted to let teammates know before minicamp. While Strahan will be remembered for his record 22.5 sack season and his big mouth, he's a Hall-of-Famer because he was also consistently strong against the run. Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre and Warren Sapp in five years. The Giants pass rush will suffer, but they are well equipped to move Justin Tuck outside and use Mathias Kiwanuka more as a pass rusher.
Well, there is a 2nd first ballot guy (along with Favre) for 2013.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record.
<< <i>when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record. >>
That would be just awesome!
FINISHED 12/8/2008!!!
<< <i>Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre
when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record. >>
Strahan is a HOF without that sack and without that record. If you watch the play, he was coing at Favre untouched. Only other thing Favre could have donw was try and get off an errant pass and get drilled. Favre wasn't an "iron man" by accident. He knew when to hold em and when to fold em...lol
Strahan was THE dominant DE of his era.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
’84 Stephenson
PSA 9 – 18 to 60
PSA 10 – 0 to 4
’77 Casper
PSA 9 – 14 to 28
’76 Payton
PSA 9 – 294 to 335
’77 Selmon
PSA 9 – 14 to 44
PSA 10 – 0 to 3
’72 Riggins
PSA 9 – 38 to 61
’72 Hendricks
PSA 9 – 8 to 19
’70 Stenerud
PSA 9 – 13 to 25
<< <i>Strahan is a HOF without that sack and without that record. If you watch the play, he was coing at Favre untouched. Only other thing Favre could have donw was try and get off an errant pass and get drilled. Favre wasn't an "iron man" by accident. He knew when to hold em and when to fold em...lol >>
Don't forget though Jason, that play came late in the 4th quarter of a game the Packers had won easily at Giants Stadium. The Pack had absolutely no business throwing the ball at that point in the game. It should have been run, run, run, punt. That's what makes the whole thing seem so staged and shady. I'm no Mark Gastineau fan, but he got robbed.
<< <i>I was just looking over a February 2007 printout of my HOF rookies set, and I noticed that a few cards made some pretty significant jumps in the pop reports:
’84 Stephenson
PSA 9 – 18 to 60
PSA 10 – 0 to 4
’77 Casper
PSA 9 – 14 to 28
’76 Payton
PSA 9 – 294 to 335
’77 Selmon
PSA 9 – 14 to 44
PSA 10 – 0 to 3
’72 Riggins
PSA 9 – 38 to 61
’72 Hendricks
PSA 9 – 8 to 19
’70 Stenerud
PSA 9 – 13 to 25 >>
I bet at least half of these are new grades are 4SC...lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
Don't forget though Jason, that play came late in the 4th quarter of a game the Packers had won easily at Giants Stadium. The Pack had absolutely no business throwing the ball at that point in the game. It should have been run, run, run, punt. That's what makes the whole thing seem so staged and shady. I'm no Mark Gastineau fan, but he got robbed. >>
Regardless of how you want to define that play, it shouldn't dimish Strahan's career and his place in the HOF...Take that sack away, give the record back to Gastineau and Strahan still goes to the HOF while Gastineau still doesn't make the top 25 semi-finalists.
Ironically..Gastineau's last year as a HOF candidate? 2013..The year Strahan becomes eligible.
For the record, when that sack occured the score was 34-25 Packers with 2:50 left in the game. It was following an onside kick after the Giants had just driven 99 yards for a TD. Giving up the sack rather than throwing it away also kept the clock running and made the Giants use their final timeout. That's not to say Favre didn't plan it or give it to him though...IMO, it doesn't really matter. It is what it is...
Here's the official play-by-play log:
3-1-GB 1 (2:54) R.Dayne right guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. R.Dayne rushes right end. ATTEMPT SUCCEEDS.
Green Bay Packers at 02:50
(Onside Kick formation) O.Pochman kicks 28 yards from NYG 30 to GB 42, out of bounds.
1-10-GB 42 (2:46) B.Favre sacked at GB 35 for -7 yards (M.Strahan).
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Chad
ROBERTSDALE, Ala. (AP) - Former NFL star quarterback Ken Stabler was arrested and charged with reckless driving and driving under the influence of alcohol.
Stabler, now a radio analyst for University of Alabama football, was released from jail on $1,000 bond nearly 13 hours after his arrest, police said Monday
The 62-year-old ex-Crimson Tide quarterback was pulled over for a traffic offense about 12:30 a.m. Sunday, said Brian Middleton, assistant chief of police. He declined to specify what led police to pull Stabler over in the town near the Gulf coast.
Stabler did not immediately return a message left at his office Monday. University officials had no immediate comment.
Stabler pleaded guilty to drunken driving following a 2001 arrest in Orange Beach. Authorities dropped drug and reckless driving charges under a plea deal. In 1995, Stabler pleaded no contest to a DUI charge in nearby Escambia County, Fla.
Stabler led the Oakland Raiders to a Super Bowl title in 1977, and also played for the Houston Oilers and New Orleans Saints during a 15-year NFL career.
He was on Alabama teams that won two Southeastern Conference titles, a national championships in 1965 and went undefeated in 1966. He has been the Tide's color analyst the past decade.
------------
BOBBY ORR
THE BEST THERE WAS!
THE BEST THERE EVER WILL BE!
------------
I have agreed with a few guys here on the boards...he didn't dominate for more than a few years...and such doesn't belong next to montana and elway. however, for a short period he was a a winner...and the best qb in the business. Few qb's ever could match his passing accuracy when he had his "A" game going If he gets the hall call I would not be dissapointed. Hope this doesn't hurt his chances.
1948-76 Topps FB Sets
FB & BB HOF Player sets
1948-1993 NY Yankee Team Sets
<< <i>Stabler apparently played a few games drunk too from what I've heard/read. >>
A few, LOL, the Snake was usually better drunk.
Check your PM..
Greg M.
References:
Onlychild, Ahmanfan, fabfrank, wufdude, jradke, Reese, Jasp, thenavarro
E-Bay id: greg_n_meg
Favre
Strahan
Odgen
... others? Seau
Might be a record for first time ballots.
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
<< <i>2013 is going to be a crowded year.
Favre
Strahan
Odgen
... others? Seau
Might be a record for first time ballots. >>
Sapp has a chance too, though I don't think he's a 1st ballot guy. 2011 has the best chance to break the record (whatever it is) for 1st time ballots. Deion, Roaf, Faulk, Martin and Bettis are all first-time eligibles!!!
<< <i>2013 is going to be a crowded year.
Favre
Strahan
Odgen
... others? Seau
Might be a record for first time ballots. >>
Larry Allen, too...
Collecting:
Brett Favre Master Set
Favre Ticket Stubs
Favre TD Reciever Autos
Football HOF Player/etc. Auto Set
Football HOF Rc's
Obviosuly Favre and Seau would be the 1,000% guarantees...I think Strahan would actually go in before Ogden. So Ogden IMO, would be the 4th guy on the bubble, but my guess is he would make it...But don't forget, Larry Allen is a possible pending retiree right now which would make it a FIVE PLAYER 1st ballot possibility..That's the MAX modern you can have, but i really don't think Allen AND Ogden would both get in...That would be a TOUGH choice between Allen and Ogden...
2012 won't have any first ballot guys, but Curtis Martin and/or Jerome Bettis will be the top guys as Deion, Faulk and Roaf slide as first ballot guys in 2011.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>your right about 2011 too. some of these sr's might have some problems...also doesnt bode well for close recent retires either. >>
This won't affect the Senior candidates at all. HOF committee allows a MAX of 7 electees every year. Of those 7, MAX of 5 can be modern candidates. So the 2 Senior guys are not affected in any way by who or what votes are taken on the modern guys. They actually vote YES/NO on the Senior caniddates before they even break down the finalists from 15 to 10 and then 5. Those 5 modern guys get the same Yes/No vote process that the 2 seniors received. 80% Yes= election.
Interesting to note..Of all the current modern candidates, Bob Kuechenberg is the ONLY ONE to ever make the final cut but missed the 80% for election. That was in 2002. He's made the final 10 in 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2008...Can't get much closer than that. It's either him or Randall McDaniel going in this year...My money (again) is on Kuechenberg with Carter getting the Viking vote this time.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>Strahan is fifth-all time in sacks and could enter the Hall with buddy Brett Favre
when strahan is inducted maybe he will have favre give his introduction speech and while doing it #4 will lay down on the stage like a like a little girl in the same fashion he did when allowed strahan to sack him for the record. >>
I would expect nothing less from the czar. All he can do is complain about Favre. I guess Favre must have ruined his life somehow when he was youger.
Bottom line is, for all the Barry Sanders lovers here is another dose of reality...It's Jim Brown, hands down...
Top 10 RBs of All Time
Don Shula, Marv Levy, Emmitt Thomas, Jack Bushofsky, Dan Reeves, Jerry Richardson, Robert Smith and Floyd Reese helped ESPN.com evaluate the best running backs in NFL history. ESPN.com weighed their contributions, balancing rankings with anecdotal evidence and statistics to create the following list: (ZOOM gallery)
1. JIM BROWN
Career: Upon retiring before '66 season, the Browns' RB was all-time leader in rushing yards (12,312), all-purpose yards (15,549) and touchdowns (126).
Quick quote: "Incredible combination of speed and power. As a defensive back, I'm happy he retired just as I came into the league, because my career might have been a lot shorter if I had to tackle him.'' -- Thomas
2. BARRY SANDERS
Career: Sudden retirement in '99 came with the Lions' RB trailing only Walter Payton on the all-time rushing list. Ran for more than 1,500 yards in a season five times.
Quick quote: "He's the only guy I've ever seen who could hurt defenders without touching them. He'd have them twisting their ankles and running into each other.'' -- Reese
3. WALTER PAYTON
Career: Played on mediocre Bears teams until late in career but retired as leading rusher (16,726) in history.
Quick quote: "The most complete back ever."' -- Shula
4. EMMITT SMITH
Career: Smith, who played 13 seasons for Dallas and two for Arizona, took over as all-time rushing leader in '02. His 164 rushing touchdowns are the most in history.
Quick quote: "Phenomenal and extremely tough player. Incredible balance and leverage.'' -- Reeves
5. GALE SAYERS
Career: Knee problems forced him to retire in '71 after seven seasons with the Bears. At 33, he was the youngest person selected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
Quick quote: "I used to watch him and say, 'How can anybody be that good?'" -- Levy
6. LADAINIAN TOMLINSON
Career: The Chargers' RB has at least 1,200 rushing yards and 50 receptions in each of his first seven seasons.
Quick quote: "He brings as much versatility as any running back ever has.'' -- Smith
7. MARSHALL FAULK
Career: Began career with Indianapolis in '94 but was traded to St. Louis in '99 and became cornerstone of "Greatest Show on Turf." First running back in history to lead his team in receptions in five different seasons.
Quick quote: "Could have been an All-Pro as a wide receiver.'' -- Bushofsky
8. O.J. SIMPSON
Career: The Bills' great became the first player in NFL history to rush for 2,000 yards in a season when he gained 2,003 in '73.
Quick quote: "He had it all. He had the same type balance as Jim Brown, and he could just keep going and going.'' -- Reeves
9. LENNY MOORE
Credentials: One of Johnny Unitas' key weapons for the Colts, he scored a touchdown in 18 straight regular-season appearances between '63 and '65.
Quick quote: "He may be underappreciated, but he was very similar to what Marshall Faulk has been more recently.'' -- Richardson, who was Moore's teammate for two years in Baltimore.
10. ERIC DICKERSON
Credentials: Reached 10,000 rushing yards in 91 games (the fastest pace in history) and rushed for 2,105 yards in '84. Played for Rams, Colts, Falcons and Raiders.
Quick quote: "He didn't look fast, but he was so long-legged that he could go the distance.'' -- Reeves
ESPN Total SportsNation Votes: 11,999
(#1 Votes)Points
1 Jim Brown (4,318) 102,075
2 Barry Sanders (3,535) 100,614
3 Walter Payton (2,587) 100,134
4 Emmitt Smith (945) 66,205
5 Gale Sayers (88) 57,258
6 LaDainian Tomlinson (337) 56,489
7 Eric Dickerson (55) 55,401
8 O.J. Simpson (65) 47,875
9 Marshall Faulk (55) 44,542
10 Lenny Moore (14) 25,661
My personal rankings:
1- Jim Brown
2- Walter Payton
3- Barry Sanders
4- OJ Simpson
5- Emmitt Smith
6- Gale Sayers
7- Earl Campbell
8- Marshall Faulk
9- LaDanian Tomlinson
10- Eric Dickerson
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>That's a pretty solid list I must say. Can't really argue too much. I'd bump LT2 up one and drop Sayers down 1 or 2, simply due to his extreme lack of longevity. >>
Valid point..Although if Sayers had stayed healthy and played 11-12 years, he probably be sitting at #1 or #2 on this list...Putting him 5 or lower is BECAUSE his career was cut short..
While I wouldn't argue putting Tomlinson over Sayers for that reason, I'm not sure how he jumps ahead of or is better than Marshall Faulk. They are very close, but to me the tiebreaker is how important each guy is/was to the success of their teams. The Chargers keep getting bounced from the playoffs and Tomlinson just keeps pouting about it and blaming his Pro bowl QB. Faulk helped a no-name QB in Kurt Warner become an MVP and Super Bowl winner. The greatest show on turf would not have existed without Faulk..He was the gas that made that engine run...
Tomlinson could eventually pass Faulk in my eyes, but I will need to see him be the reason that team wins a championship. The success Michael Turner was having as his backup with the same lineup around him, to me, is another reason he drops a notch as well...What he does over the next 3-4 season will define his place.
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>If Seau retires, we might have our first ever 4 player first ballot HOF Class...
Obviosuly Favre and Seau would be the 1,000% guarantees...I think Strahan would actually go in before Ogden. So Ogden IMO, would be the 4th guy on the bubble, but my guess is he would make it...But don't forget, Larry Allen is a possible pending retiree right now which would make it a FIVE PLAYER 1st ballot possibility..That's the MAX modern you can have, but i really don't think Allen AND Ogden would both get in...That would be a TOUGH choice between Allen and Ogden...
2012 won't have any first ballot guys, but Curtis Martin and/or Jerome Bettis will be the top guys as Deion, Faulk and Roaf slide as first ballot guys in 2011.
Jason >>
On Sirius NFL Radio, Peter King indicated he would put Ogden ahead of both Strahan and Larry Allen as a first-ballot inductee. Of course he is only one voter and it will depend on who else is in the pool of eligible players who have not yet been elected, but it is interesting to hear. Also, for those of you who have Sirius or have been thinking about getting it, PK is a guest host 2-3x per week on the Opening Drive which is (I believe) 8am-11am ET, and they are going to start having a weekly HOF segment to discuss the merits of which players belong in the HOF. I caught part of it this morning and they had Steve Sabol on as a guest caller, really good stuff. Interesting to hear that King is NOT in favor of putting Ray Guy in the HOF but IS a big proponent of putting in Steve Tasker.
Jasen
<< <i>
On Sirius NFL Radio, Peter King indicated he would put Ogden ahead of both Strahan and Larry Allen as a first-ballot inductee. Of course he is only one voter and it will depend on who else is in the pool of eligible players who have not yet been elected, but it is interesting to hear.
Jasen >>
Yeah, I read that in his online column yesterday. He ranked them: Favre, Ogden, Seau, Strahan, Sapp, Allen
How he can rank him above Seau is mindboggling...Seau has fallen off recently, but the guy is ancient..Ogden really hasn't been great his last 3-4 years either and he's only been in the league 12 seasons vs. Seau's 18..In his prime (1992-2000), Seau was the best MLB in the game, hands down..Ogden has been ONE OF the best, but not THE best for an extended period. He's most definitely a HOFer and likely first ballot...But to put him over Seau is lunacy...
And Warren Sapp was better than Larry Allen? Sorry, I like Sapp but that isn't even close either. It should be:
1-Favre (not debatable)
2-Seau (not debatable)
3-Strahan (be interesting to find out how many times He and Ogden went head-2-head in games and what the outcome was)
4a-Ogden (toss up between him and Larry Allen)
4b-Allen
6-Sapp
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Jason you being a Football Historian I am absolutely SHOCKED you didnt mention his name let alone be in your top 5! Is that because he was a Fullback and played Defense as well?
My Personal Rankings
1-Bronko Nagurski
2-Jim Brown
3-Barry Sanders
4-Walter Payton
5-Emmitt Smith
6-Gayle Sayers
7-Eric Dickerson
8-Earl Cambell
9-Marshal Faulk
10-Tony Dorsett
Im going to let L.T finish his career before I rank him, also it should be known that if it wasnt for injury Bo Jackson might have been the best Running back of our generation.
<< <i>Bronko Nagurski was the best Running back ever to play the game hands down, he was THE MAN against real Men, this guy played through injuries, and in an era where football was a very violent sport and dominated.
Jason you being a Football Historian I am absolutely SHOCKED you didnt mention his name let alone be in your top 5! Is that because he was a Fullback and played Defense as well?
>>
Hey, I love Nagurski as well as many of the other great old timers like Marion Motley, Steve Van Buren and Clark Hinkle...It was a different game back then, and when you watch any of the (few) highlights they were tough and rugged and all that..But what they were not, was consistent.
Nagurski only played in 97 career games...Rushed for a grand total of 2,778 yards. He was a real bruiser and the face of the NFL at the time, but he never led the league in rushing once, he never dominated...To put him in front of Jim Brown is apocolyptic..lol..Jim Brown NEVER MISSED A GAME...Football was still more violent in the 60's as well, and the players athleticism was increasing towards what it is today. In 1935, the average size defensive lineman was 6-2, 224..In 1965, it was 6-4, 260...
For pre-war players, they REALLY had to stand out and be completely dominant to even be able to talk about them in the same discussion. Sammy Baugh, Don Hutson..Those guys TRULY stood above the crowd..Nagurski was an all-timer, but Clark Hinkle and Cliff Battles were just as good..They just aren't as famous or well known.
Just my opinion of course,
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>
My Personal Rankings
1-Bronko Nagurski
2-Jim Brown
3-Barry Sanders
4-Walter Payton
5-Emmitt Smith
6-Gayle Sayers
7-Eric Dickerson
8-Earl Cambell
9-Marshal Faulk
10-Tony Dorsett
>>
No OJ Simpson?? WOW..I hope that's because you hate him for what he is off the field, because on the field he was DOMINANT...Had he stayed healthy during his playing years and out of trouble later on, he'd be much higher on the ESPN list as well..Guy was amazing with the ball in his hands...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I did complertely forget about OJ, no doubt he should be in there.
Quarterback:
1. Otto Graham (10 years, 10 championship games, 7 titles)
2. Johnny Unitas
3. Joe Montana (I hated him, but . . . )
Running Back:
1. Jim Brown (Nothing else needs to be said)
2. Walter Payton
3. Barry Sanders
Wide Receiver:
1. Don Hutson (Head and shoulders above ANYONE else in his era)
2. Jerry Rice (Head and shoulders above anyone but DON HUTSON)
3. No one else deserves to be ranked NEAR these two!
<< <i>After reading Monsters of the Midway-( the only info I ever had access to on Bronko ) it was pretty clear to me that he dominated that era, he would hurt guys like knock them out when they tried to tackle him! LOL It was pretty much common knowledge amongst his piers that Bronko was above everyone else in the league at the time.
I did complertely forget about OJ, no doubt he should be in there. >>
I guess we should rank Mike Alstott #2 then??lol
Seriously, Nagurski was as big as the linemen back then..Same as Motley..Big bruisers no doubt, but to rank them above the Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders of the world is akin to ranking Alstott above Tomlinson..There just isn't a comparison..
Nothing in the stats or in the game footage I've seen of Bronko tells me he was better than Motley..Very similar in style and substance, I would rank Motley over Nagurski..Nagurski wasn't nimble or elusive at all..He was a straight ahead runner who was as big as, if not bigger than most of the D-linemen trying to tackle him..Great in his day, but not on par with the others on the list..The game is just too different, the way RBs are used are just too different...He didn't innovate, but what he did do (along with Red Grange) was bring pro football into being a viable sport.
This is all opinion of course, and we are each entitled to them..
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
They are the main 2 guys that defined the sport
O.J. is dead to me.
Once someone butchers their ex-wife and a total stranger in a jealous rage,
it's time for all sane folks to ignore their gridiron accomplishments and begin to regard them as one would Hitler or Charlie Manson ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>I believe when discussing any "All-Time" greats it should be broken down by decade, there are way to many variables that come in to play. >>
By decade? that may be taking it a little too far...The Pro Football HOF makes the distinction of Modern era vs. Pre-modern era at the year 1946. Pre-Modern Era is defined as the majority of a members' career that occurred prior to 1946. Modern Era is defined as a majority of a members' career that occurred after 1946.
I think for the sake of this discussion that is a fair assessment.
Top 10 PRE-modern era RBs (for perkdog..lol)
1- Steve Van Buren
2- Bronko Nagurski
3- Clark Hinkle
4- Cliff Battles
5- Ken Strong
6- Red Grange
7- Ernie Nevers
8- Bill Dudley
9- Tuffy Leemans
10-Tony Canadeo
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>O.J. is dead to me.
Once someone butchers their ex-wife and a total stranger in a jealous rage,
it's time for all sane folks to ignore their gridiron accomplishments and begin to regard them as one would Hitler or Charlie Manson ... >>
OJ is scum of the earth..No doubt about that...For me, football is a getaway and I really don't pay attention to any of the off field issues regardless of what they might be..These are football players, they play a violent game and many of them are bad people. But for me, that doesn't subtract to what they do on the field. If it affects there team and teammates, then yes consider it part of their game...Otherwise, it doesn't change the fact that O.J. was near unstoppable for many years..Same with Lawrence Taylor...Or Michael Irvin or even Jim Tyrer (died in murder/suicide killing his wife and himself)...
Personally I have to separate church and state...But I understand why many others don't...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
<< <i>I know this has been discussed before, but it would have been very interesting to see how OJ's HOF voting would have fared if his trial had taken place before he was eligible for Canton. Say 3 or 4 years after his retirement. I tend to think he would never be a HOF'er if that were the case. Especially since he can't seem to stay out of trouble even now. No doubt he was a beast on the field. But he completely ruined that legacy. >>
If I were voting now, he would get my vote...the HOF committee is not supposed to take any off the field issues into account when voting..We all know that isn't the case with many of them though...The vote is secret, someone with a hatred for OJ would more than likely not give him their vote...Question is, are enough voters on the committee like that who would deny Simpson the required 80% vote? We'll never know, but with OJ being such a slam dunk, 1st ballot HOF player on the field the entire voting process and by-laws they follow would be compromised if he were denied induction.
The guy deserves to be in prison, but he also deserves to be in the HOF. Watch his game footage because that's all that matters when it comes to this discussion. We aren't voting for the good guy HOF. This is football, the fields are litered with criminals...
Jason
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.