<< <i>1. Wow - just spent a half hour or so reading through this thread, and my head is spinning 2. Seems to me there has been some unsavory behavior by both of the principals in this affair. Lying/misrepresenting the truth is never good. Probably should have been a refund from the get-go, but that has been stated many times already. In hindsight, I'm sure jmkb would concur. 3. I know zip about the allure and rarity of some of these '93 refractors, but I sure would love to get my mitts on a 9 or 10 #6 Brett Butler! 4. Coldplay - ugh!
Geordie >>
Wow! I had no idea there was this subterranian backlash against Coldplay. I knew that Yawie99 hated them, but then he's one of those weirdos who likes Phish... (no offense intended, Yawie).
Yeah, Coldplay definitely sucks with the exception of a few songs.
Boo- we fundamentally agree and although my posts may have seemed argumentative towards you, it was more of a sarcastic "we all see through jmbk's actions, so why ask questions where the answer is obvious" tone. I too can see why someone would flip out after getting jobbed on ebay. I know I made reference to it before, but it's kind of like watching the movie "Falling Down" where you start thinking to yourself: "I can see why he lost it and started beating the sh*t out of people."
The one point where I wholeheartedly disagree with you is that you somewhat excuse jmbk's not mentioning of the card being short. If an less observant person bought the card and didn't realize it was short, then that makes it ok because jmbk didn't get called out on it? You may say "well, if he's happy with it then no harm, no foul". But what if 3 months down the line he submits to PSA and the card gets rejected as trimmed or min. size req., is he still happy with the card? Like I said before, the card is not Mint, and wouldn't be seen as such by any grading company or any card expert by the current industry standards. To sell it as such is blatant misrepresentation, and knowingly doing so is even more egregious.
<< <i>But what if 3 months down the line he submits to PSA and the card gets rejected as trimmed or min. size req., is he still happy with the card? Like I said before, the card is not Mint, and wouldn't be seen as such by any grading company or any card expert by the current industry standards. To sell it as such is blatant misrepresentation, and knowingly doing so is even more egregious.
Lee >>
Idiots....
I'm still waiting for someone with an education beyond the 7th grade to explain to me for how I'm the ANTICHRIST for selling a card that is unquestionably taller than this PSA 10.
That card you just put up a picture of does not appear to be 1 1/2 millimeters short, so no-- I don't think the card in the case is 'unquestionably' shorter than the one you sold to fight fraud. If this one was appreciably shorter then it would be about 2 millimeters shy of 3 1/2", and I would be stunned if the card you posted here is that short.
But what it comes down to is this: If the Willie Greene you sold raw was, in fact, 'perfect in every way', and you knew it could get slabbed, you would have slabbed it yourself. You're BS line about not having the financial wherewithal to submit the card yourself doesn't carry any weight at all on these boards. And this is completely aside from the fact that you should have done the honorable thing and given fight-fraud a refund when he asked for it.
You tried to sneak one under the radar, and you ended up screwing with the wrong bull. Deal with it and move on. But don't come on here and try to play the victim card, because I don't think anyone here is buying it.
We all know some cards get by the graders at PSA- I've seen trimmed cards in slabs and we've all seen cards that have been way overgraded, ESPECIALLY 93 refractors. You should know this jmbk, afterall you started this thread.
So just because you had one or two slide by when they were short (after being rejected previously no doubt), that doesn't give you carte blanche to list your raw cards that are short as "perfect in every way" and expect any buyer who knows anything about cards to be happy about their purchase. By your moronic logic, you can list any card that has a 1.5 mm chunk taken off the bottom as perfect because there's one sitting in a PSA slab. By that same moronic logic, you can say any card that is 65/35 is "perfect in every way" because of the PSA 10 Sosa you hailed as the "Ugliest PSA 10 ever".
In that thread you also state "I've seen dozens of wcsports1's 814/815 cards and they are nowhere near as strictly graded as other cert. #s are." Here you are acknowledging that PSA grading can be somewhat inconsistent from grader to grader (which we all know) which furthermore backs up the notion that just because a card is in a particular slab, doesn't mean that the grade is always indicative of the condition.
And as I mentioned previously, just because Fight-Fraud is a lunatic, doesn't take away from the fact that your trying to sell cards as "perfect in every way" when they clearly are not.
If you want to try and make yourself sound like less of an a-hole for not mentioning that a card is over 1 mm short, go for it. Nobody on these boards is buying it. If we're all a bunch of idiots and elementary schoolers, then go find people that are on par with your superior intellect and ethical code.
Comments
<< <i>1. Wow - just spent a half hour or so reading through this thread, and my head is spinning
2. Seems to me there has been some unsavory behavior by both of the principals in this affair. Lying/misrepresenting the truth is never good. Probably should have been a refund from the get-go, but that has been stated many times already. In hindsight, I'm sure jmkb would concur.
3. I know zip about the allure and rarity of some of these '93 refractors, but I sure would love to get my mitts on a 9 or 10 #6 Brett Butler!
4. Coldplay - ugh!
Geordie >>
Wow! I had no idea there was this subterranian backlash against Coldplay. I knew that Yawie99 hated them, but then he's one of those weirdos who likes Phish... (no offense intended, Yawie).
Boo- we fundamentally agree and although my posts may have seemed argumentative towards you, it was more of a sarcastic "we all see through jmbk's actions, so why ask questions where the answer is obvious" tone. I too can see why someone would flip out after getting jobbed on ebay. I know I made reference to it before, but it's kind of like watching the movie "Falling Down" where you start thinking to yourself: "I can see why he lost it and started beating the sh*t out of people."
The one point where I wholeheartedly disagree with you is that you somewhat excuse jmbk's not mentioning of the card being short. If an less observant person bought the card and didn't realize it was short, then that makes it ok because jmbk didn't get called out on it? You may say "well, if he's happy with it then no harm, no foul". But what if 3 months down the line he submits to PSA and the card gets rejected as trimmed or min. size req., is he still happy with the card? Like I said before, the card is not Mint, and wouldn't be seen as such by any grading company or any card expert by the current industry standards. To sell it as such is blatant misrepresentation, and knowingly doing so is even more egregious.
Lee
<< <i>But what if 3 months down the line he submits to PSA and the card gets rejected as trimmed or min. size req., is he still happy with the card? Like I said before, the card is not Mint, and wouldn't be seen as such by any grading company or any card expert by the current industry standards. To sell it as such is blatant misrepresentation, and knowingly doing so is even more egregious.
Lee >>
Idiots....
I'm still waiting for someone with an education beyond the 7th grade to explain to me for how I'm the ANTICHRIST for selling a card that is unquestionably taller than this PSA 10.
But what it comes down to is this: If the Willie Greene you sold raw was, in fact, 'perfect in every way', and you knew it could get slabbed, you would have slabbed it yourself. You're BS line about not having the financial wherewithal to submit the card yourself doesn't carry any weight at all on these boards. And this is completely aside from the fact that you should have done the honorable thing and given fight-fraud a refund when he asked for it.
You tried to sneak one under the radar, and you ended up screwing with the wrong bull. Deal with it and move on. But don't come on here and try to play the victim card, because I don't think anyone here is buying it.
So just because you had one or two slide by when they were short (after being rejected previously no doubt), that doesn't give you carte blanche to list your raw cards that are short as "perfect in every way" and expect any buyer who knows anything about cards to be happy about their purchase. By your moronic logic, you can list any card that has a 1.5 mm chunk taken off the bottom as perfect because there's one sitting in a PSA slab. By that same moronic logic, you can say any card that is 65/35 is "perfect in every way" because of the PSA 10 Sosa you hailed as the "Ugliest PSA 10 ever".
In that thread you also state "I've seen dozens of wcsports1's 814/815 cards and they are nowhere near as strictly graded as other cert. #s are." Here you are acknowledging that PSA grading can be somewhat inconsistent from grader to grader (which we all know) which furthermore backs up the notion that just because a card is in a particular slab, doesn't mean that the grade is always indicative of the condition.
And as I mentioned previously, just because Fight-Fraud is a lunatic, doesn't take away from the fact that your trying to sell cards as "perfect in every way" when they clearly are not.
If you want to try and make yourself sound like less of an a-hole for not mentioning that a card is over 1 mm short, go for it. Nobody on these boards is buying it. If we're all a bunch of idiots and elementary schoolers, then go find people that are on par with your superior intellect and ethical code.
Lee
also, I would think that he should let sleeping dogs lay.
Steve