More bad news on 1993 Finest Refractors? Now they're being trimmed??
DaBigHurt
Posts: 1,066 ✭✭
I found this rather interesting
In case the auction is removed or expires:
1993 93 Finest Refractor W Greene - Guaranteed Trimmed
Looking for a Doctored refractor? Today I'm your Daddy!
I wonder who he's referring to...
I received this gem several weeks ago from one of eBay's highly respected Power Sellers.
He went the extra mile by sending me a card with the bottom edge trimmed because he
somehow knew how happy I would be to receive a "perfectly centered" card. That is
service above and beyond the call of duty and so generous that I just didn't feel I could
accept it. I attempted to return this precious gift to the seller but he magnanimously
declined to take it back.
Still feeling unworthy of this seller-enhanced beauty I contacted eBay via their Purchase
Protection process but try as he might the seller just couldn't convince eBay not to
return most of my payment. I felt so sorry for him. I didn't really want any money from
eBay so to pay them back I estimate I'll need to pay them listing fees for items like this
about 100 times before their generosity is repaid. Ebay didn't seem interested in taking
possession of this masterpiece either. How strange. Their loss could be your gain.
This priceless collectible has been examined by an independent expert who guarantees
that it is a genuine trimmed card. Don't accept substitutes.
EXPERT FINDINGS -
* The card is more than 1.5 mm shorter than other refractors
* under 10x magnification it is evident that the bottom edge has been recut (trimmed).
EXPERT CREDENTIALS -
* Beckett magazine correspondent since 1989
* PSA Submission Center for 10+ years
* Contributor to the Sports Card Counterfeit Detection Guide
* Professional Appraiser of Sports Cards and Memorabilia.
The edges of this card, especially the trimmed edge, are so sharp you could shave with
them. For all you adolescent young men looking for a tool to remove that unsightly
peach fuzz, for safety sake, please remember you must have your parents permission
to bid. If the price soars above 5 cents I'll throw in a can of shaving cream,
mentholated of course, for free.
And for all potential bidders who would like a complete history of this highly sought after
item feel free to contact me at fightfraud@aol.com.
In case the auction is removed or expires:
1993 93 Finest Refractor W Greene - Guaranteed Trimmed
Looking for a Doctored refractor? Today I'm your Daddy!
I wonder who he's referring to...I received this gem several weeks ago from one of eBay's highly respected Power Sellers.
He went the extra mile by sending me a card with the bottom edge trimmed because he
somehow knew how happy I would be to receive a "perfectly centered" card. That is
service above and beyond the call of duty and so generous that I just didn't feel I could
accept it. I attempted to return this precious gift to the seller but he magnanimously
declined to take it back.
Still feeling unworthy of this seller-enhanced beauty I contacted eBay via their Purchase
Protection process but try as he might the seller just couldn't convince eBay not to
return most of my payment. I felt so sorry for him. I didn't really want any money from
eBay so to pay them back I estimate I'll need to pay them listing fees for items like this
about 100 times before their generosity is repaid. Ebay didn't seem interested in taking
possession of this masterpiece either. How strange. Their loss could be your gain.
This priceless collectible has been examined by an independent expert who guarantees
that it is a genuine trimmed card. Don't accept substitutes.
EXPERT FINDINGS -
* The card is more than 1.5 mm shorter than other refractors
* under 10x magnification it is evident that the bottom edge has been recut (trimmed).
EXPERT CREDENTIALS -
* Beckett magazine correspondent since 1989
* PSA Submission Center for 10+ years
* Contributor to the Sports Card Counterfeit Detection Guide
* Professional Appraiser of Sports Cards and Memorabilia.
The edges of this card, especially the trimmed edge, are so sharp you could shave with
them. For all you adolescent young men looking for a tool to remove that unsightly
peach fuzz, for safety sake, please remember you must have your parents permission
to bid. If the price soars above 5 cents I'll throw in a can of shaving cream,
mentholated of course, for free.
And for all potential bidders who would like a complete history of this highly sought after
item feel free to contact me at fightfraud@aol.com.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
0
Comments
BTW, GEM allows you to take 3 millimeters off of a card (for those scoring at home that's about 1/8").
matt
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
<< <i>That card is not trimmed. The problem is that Eric Davis is Taller then Willie Greene so they had to make his card longer. Im surprised you didnt know that
matt >>
I think Fight-Fraud probably has more than one 1993 Finest refractor for comparisons sake, so if the Eric Davis was too long, he would've just compared it to another refractor. Besides, Beckett Grading Services AND PSA both rejected the card for trimming.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>
<< <i>That card is not trimmed. The problem is that Eric Davis is Taller then Willie Greene so they had to make his card longer. Im surprised you didnt know that
matt >>
I think Fight-Fraud probably has more than one 1993 Finest refractor for comparisons sake, so if the Eric Davis was too long, he would've just compared it to another refractor. Besides, Beckett Grading Services AND PSA both rejected the card for trimming. >>
/overlooksarcasm
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>That card is not trimmed. The problem is that Eric Davis is Taller then Willie Greene so they had to make his card longer. Im surprised you didnt know that
matt >>
I think Fight-Fraud probably has more than one 1993 Finest refractor for comparisons sake, so if the Eric Davis was too long, he would've just compared it to another refractor. Besides, Beckett Grading Services AND PSA both rejected the card for trimming. >>
/overlooksarcasm >>
1994 Pro Line Live
TheDallasCowboyBackfieldProject
Bravo to the seller who got screwed.
He obviously knows cards if you look at who he has purchased from in the past.
The trimmers ID - doctor*daddy.
Keith
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>I found this rather interesting
In case the auction is removed or expires:
1993 93 Finest Refractor W Greene - Guaranteed Trimmed
Looking for a Doctored refractor? Today I'm your Daddy!
I received this gem several weeks ago from one of eBay's highly respected Power Sellers.
He went the extra mile by sending me a card with the bottom edge trimmed because he
somehow knew how happy I would be to receive a "perfectly centered" card. That is
service above and beyond the call of duty and so generous that I just didn't feel I could
accept it. I attempted to return this precious gift to the seller but he magnanimously
declined to take it back.
Still feeling unworthy of this seller-enhanced beauty I contacted eBay via their Purchase
Protection process but try as he might the seller just couldn't convince eBay not to
return most of my payment. I felt so sorry for him. I didn't really want any money from
eBay so to pay them back I estimate I'll need to pay them listing fees for items like this
about 100 times before their generosity is repaid. Ebay didn't seem interested in taking
possession of this masterpiece either. How strange. Their loss could be your gain.
This priceless collectible has been examined by an independent expert who guarantees
that it is a genuine trimmed card. Don't accept substitutes.
EXPERT FINDINGS -
* The card is more than 1.5 mm shorter than other refractors
* under 10x magnification it is evident that the bottom edge has been recut (trimmed).
EXPERT CREDENTIALS -
* Beckett magazine correspondent since 1989
* PSA Submission Center for 10+ years
* Contributor to the Sports Card Counterfeit Detection Guide
* Professional Appraiser of Sports Cards and Memorabilia.
The edges of this card, especially the trimmed edge, are so sharp you could shave with
them. For all you adolescent young men looking for a tool to remove that unsightly
peach fuzz, for safety sake, please remember you must have your parents permission
to bid. If the price soars above 5 cents I'll throw in a can of shaving cream,
mentholated of course, for free.
And for all potential bidders who would like a complete history of this highly sought after
item feel free to contact me at fightfraud@aol.com.
I love selling trimmed 1993 Refractors -- it is what I do!!!! In fact, back in 1993, I actually worked in the Topps Factory and cut approximatley 50% of ALL Willie Greene 1993 Refractors a little too small!!!!
Additionally, 4 weeks after the counterfeit/trimmed Willie Greene was received by the buyer, I also convinced him, via my evil business practice ways, to buy a Shane Mack PSA 9 on eBay for $500 + shipping!!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I found this rather interesting
In case the auction is removed or expires:
1993 93 Finest Refractor W Greene - Guaranteed Trimmed
Looking for a Doctored refractor? Today I'm your Daddy!
I received this gem several weeks ago from one of eBay's highly respected Power Sellers.
He went the extra mile by sending me a card with the bottom edge trimmed because he
somehow knew how happy I would be to receive a "perfectly centered" card. That is
service above and beyond the call of duty and so generous that I just didn't feel I could
accept it. I attempted to return this precious gift to the seller but he magnanimously
declined to take it back.
Still feeling unworthy of this seller-enhanced beauty I contacted eBay via their Purchase
Protection process but try as he might the seller just couldn't convince eBay not to
return most of my payment. I felt so sorry for him. I didn't really want any money from
eBay so to pay them back I estimate I'll need to pay them listing fees for items like this
about 100 times before their generosity is repaid. Ebay didn't seem interested in taking
possession of this masterpiece either. How strange. Their loss could be your gain.
This priceless collectible has been examined by an independent expert who guarantees
that it is a genuine trimmed card. Don't accept substitutes.
EXPERT FINDINGS -
* The card is more than 1.5 mm shorter than other refractors
* under 10x magnification it is evident that the bottom edge has been recut (trimmed).
EXPERT CREDENTIALS -
* Beckett magazine correspondent since 1989
* PSA Submission Center for 10+ years
* Contributor to the Sports Card Counterfeit Detection Guide
* Professional Appraiser of Sports Cards and Memorabilia.
The edges of this card, especially the trimmed edge, are so sharp you could shave with
them. For all you adolescent young men looking for a tool to remove that unsightly
peach fuzz, for safety sake, please remember you must have your parents permission
to bid. If the price soars above 5 cents I'll throw in a can of shaving cream,
mentholated of course, for free.
And for all potential bidders who would like a complete history of this highly sought after
item feel free to contact me at fightfraud@aol.com.
I love selling trimmed 1993 Refractors -- it is what I do!!!! In fact, back in 1993, I actually worked in the Topps Factory and cut approximatley 50% of ALL Willie Greene 1993 Refractors a little too small!!!!
Additionally, 4 weeks after the counterfeit/trimmed Willie Greene was received by the buyer, I also convinced him, via my evil business practice ways, to buy a Shane Mack PSA 9 on eBay for $500 + shipping!!! >>
Unknowingly selling a trimmed card, I can somewhat understand because cards pass through so many hands nowadays. If I did that to someone and the buyer informed me the card he sent to BGS/PSA came back as trimmed, I'd just return the guy his money.
But to refuse returns and and it looks like you also gave him a retalitory negative feedback for the Shane Mack card, a transaction that had nothing to do with the Willie Greene card?
Wow.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Since those cards probably wouldn't sell in a gem/pro holder, I would guess that the card was trimmed pre-grading. There's no telling how many cards got hacked up back in the day and are either still circulating or are sitting in somebody's collection. A distant relative recently showed me a McGwire RC he bought at a show in the early 90's/late 80's. It had been whacked on three edges...but he never suspected a thing. Of course, it's worthless now anyway.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I found this rather interesting
In case the auction is removed or expires:
1993 93 Finest Refractor W Greene - Guaranteed Trimmed
Looking for a Doctored refractor? Today I'm your Daddy!
I received this gem several weeks ago from one of eBay's highly respected Power Sellers.
He went the extra mile by sending me a card with the bottom edge trimmed because he
somehow knew how happy I would be to receive a "perfectly centered" card. That is
service above and beyond the call of duty and so generous that I just didn't feel I could
accept it. I attempted to return this precious gift to the seller but he magnanimously
declined to take it back.
Still feeling unworthy of this seller-enhanced beauty I contacted eBay via their Purchase
Protection process but try as he might the seller just couldn't convince eBay not to
return most of my payment. I felt so sorry for him. I didn't really want any money from
eBay so to pay them back I estimate I'll need to pay them listing fees for items like this
about 100 times before their generosity is repaid. Ebay didn't seem interested in taking
possession of this masterpiece either. How strange. Their loss could be your gain.
This priceless collectible has been examined by an independent expert who guarantees
that it is a genuine trimmed card. Don't accept substitutes.
EXPERT FINDINGS -
* The card is more than 1.5 mm shorter than other refractors
* under 10x magnification it is evident that the bottom edge has been recut (trimmed).
EXPERT CREDENTIALS -
* Beckett magazine correspondent since 1989
* PSA Submission Center for 10+ years
* Contributor to the Sports Card Counterfeit Detection Guide
* Professional Appraiser of Sports Cards and Memorabilia.
The edges of this card, especially the trimmed edge, are so sharp you could shave with
them. For all you adolescent young men looking for a tool to remove that unsightly
peach fuzz, for safety sake, please remember you must have your parents permission
to bid. If the price soars above 5 cents I'll throw in a can of shaving cream,
mentholated of course, for free.
And for all potential bidders who would like a complete history of this highly sought after
item feel free to contact me at fightfraud@aol.com.
I love selling trimmed 1993 Refractors -- it is what I do!!!! In fact, back in 1993, I actually worked in the Topps Factory and cut approximatley 50% of ALL Willie Greene 1993 Refractors a little too small!!!!
Additionally, 4 weeks after the counterfeit/trimmed Willie Greene was received by the buyer, I also convinced him, via my evil business practice ways, to buy a Shane Mack PSA 9 on eBay for $500 + shipping!!! >>
Unknowingly selling a trimmed card, I can somewhat understand because cards pass through so many hands nowadays. If I did that to someone and the buyer informed me the card he sent to BGS/PSA came back as trimmed, I'd just return the guy his money.
But to refuse returns and and it looks like you also gave him a retalitory negative feedback for the Shane Mack card, a transaction that had nothing to do with the Willie Greene card?
Wow. >>
The card was NEVER sent in to BGS or PSA for grading. Never, Never, Never. That is why a refund was not issued. If you'll notice, I received a negative feedback for a gorgeous Fred McGriff I sold fight-fraud. One good turn deserves another!
This card was never trimmed. My PSA 10 Willie Greene (one of them) is a little smaller than this card. I'll bet the current "trimmed" Willie Greene will end up in a PSA 10/9 case in the near future.
I AM PAYING $1,000 FOR PSA OR BGS CERT. #S THAT FIGHT-FRAUD SENT IN SHOWING THE WILLIE GREENE WAS TRIMMED AND NOT UNDERSIZED PER THE FACTORY; THIS IS A KEY DISTINCTION ABOUT WHICH FIGHT-FRAUD WAS FRAUDULENT, AND WHY HE DID NOT RECEIVE A REFUND. AND HE NEVER SENT THE CARD IN.....
Not bad..... 11/26 PSA 10s, 2 of which were Willie Greene, who I apparently LOVE to trim.
PSA Order Status for Submission # 599676
LINE # CERT # CARD CARD CO. CARD # CARD NAME VARIETY GRADE
1 07180961 1993 FINEST 61 SHANE MACK REFRACTOR 9
1 07180962 1993 FINEST 61 SHANE MACK REFRACTOR 9
2 07180963 1993 FINEST 107 NOLAN RYAN REFRACTOR 9
2 07180964 1993 FINEST 107 NOLAN RYAN REFRACTOR 9
2 07180965 1993 FINEST 107 NOLAN RYAN REFRACTOR 9
3 07180966 1993 FINEST 96 CAL RIPKEN JR. REFRACTOR 9
4 07180967 1993 FINEST 148 WILLIE GREENE REFRACTOR 8
4 07180968 1993 FINEST 148 WILLIE GREENE REFRACTOR 10
4 07180969 1993 FINEST 148 WILLIE GREENE REFRACTOR 10
5 07180970 1993 FINEST 112 KIRBY PUCKETT REFRACTOR 9
5 07180971 1993 FINEST 112 KIRBY PUCKETT REFRACTOR 10
5 07180972 1993 FINEST 112 KIRBY PUCKETT REFRACTOR 10
5 07180973 1993 FINEST 112 KIRBY PUCKETT REFRACTOR 9
6 07180974 1993 FINEST 110 KEN GRIFFEY JR. REFRACTOR 10
6 07180975 1993 FINEST 110 KEN GRIFFEY JR. REFRACTOR 10
7 07180976 1993 FINEST 85 GREG MADDUX REFRACTOR 9
7 07180977 1993 FINEST 85 GREG MADDUX REFRACTOR 10
8 07180978 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 9
8 07180979 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 9
8 07180980 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 9
8 07180981 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 10
8 07180982 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 10
8 07180983 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 10
8 07180984 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 10
8 07180985 1993 FINEST 102 FRANK THOMAS REFRACTOR 9
Date Received: 08/10/2006
Date of Grades Posted: 08/22/2006
Date Shipped: 08/22/2006
Also, with the number of PSA 10s now ballooning to almost 2,000 (1,958), the only question now is whether or not PSA 10s will ever outnumber PSA 8s, which are at 2,800.
WOW THESE CARDS ARE VERY RARE!!!11
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>So how many times did you resubmit the trimmed Willie Greene to PSA before finally giving up and selling it raw on Ebay?
Also, with the number of PSA 10s now ballooning to almost 2,000 (1,958), the only question now is whether or not PSA 10s will ever outnumber PSA 8s, which are at 2,800.
WOW THESE CARDS ARE VERY RARE!!!11
This was their first submission, of course.
But thanks for asking.
It's not often that I leave the "DBH" speechless.
<< <i>
<< <i>So how many times did you resubmit the trimmed Willie Greene to PSA before finally giving up and selling it raw on Ebay?
Also, with the number of PSA 10s now ballooning to almost 2,000 (1,958), the only question now is whether or not PSA 10s will ever outnumber PSA 8s, which are at 2,800.
WOW THESE CARDS ARE VERY RARE!!!11
This was their first submission, of course.
But thanks for asking.
It's not often that I leave the "DBH" speechless. >>
Heh, you left me speechless?
I was asking how many times you submitted the TRIMMED Willie Harris you sold Fight-fraud and had it rejected or come back an 8 before you just cracked it out and sold it raw.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Thanks,
David (LD_Ferg)
1985 Topps Football (starting in psa 8) - #9 - started 05/21/06
<< <i>how many refractors are there of each player? >>
Ldferg,
Approximately 241-275 per player...
Mark
The only issue I have is that the original auction for the Willie Greene should have stated that the card was short. Also, a refund probably should have been given, but that's jmbk's call to make.
Lee
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So how many times did you resubmit the trimmed Willie Greene to PSA before finally giving up and selling it raw on Ebay?
Also, with the number of PSA 10s now ballooning to almost 2,000 (1,958), the only question now is whether or not PSA 10s will ever outnumber PSA 8s, which are at 2,800.
WOW THESE CARDS ARE VERY RARE!!!11
This was their first submission, of course.
But thanks for asking.
It's not often that I leave the "DBH" speechless. >>
Heh, you left me speechless?
I was asking how many times you submitted the TRIMMED Willie Harris you sold Fight-fraud and had it rejected or come back an 8 before you just cracked it out and sold it raw. >>
Maybe never. Like I said in my OP, I think only a total moron would send this card in. Anyone who's had more than 12 cards graded would know that there's no way a card that short would find its way into a holder.
But I do agree that it's a little bush league that the original auction didn't announce the fact that the card was short (which I'm sure the seller knew), and it's really tacky not to offer a refund.
You think good.
Lee
<< <i>You'd be surprised at the size of my Willie Greene PSA 10s......probably a little shorter than this card.........seriously. >>
If true that would indeed change my opinion on the whole matter.
Seriously-- if there are cards floating around in PSA holders that have MORE than 1 1/2 millimeters cut off then just what in the hell is PSA doing?
<< <i>You'd be surprised at the size of my Willie Greene PSA 10s......probably a little shorter than this card.........seriously. >>
pics please.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
The card is no larger and probably a little shorter than the Greene that fight-fraud has been whining about.
I hope this helps clear some things up. I don't expect DBH to be persuaded, as I've never seen him retract any of his multiple erroneous statements on these boards, but perhaps other clear-thinking board members will see that I'm not the anti-christ who enjoys trimming common 1993 Refractors....
Any questions, please reply. Unfortunately, I have ZERO control of how PSA grades cards. I have never trimmed a card in my life and, while it is somewhat exhilirating to need to continually exonerate myself, it is also very tiring.
Lee
ps- I'm still of the mindset that if I were in your shoes I would have mentioned the size of the card in the auction, and if I didn't I would've given the refund, but I'd never tell anyone how to run their own business.
thanks for your kind words. I would have happily refunded fight-fraud, but he was so vicious and accusatory, he backed me into a corner. Once backed into a corner, I am not the nice guy I usually am.
But I am glad the pictures were helpful.
thanks,
Josh
I was recently emailed by a fellow eBay member who legitimately wanted to buy the card but FIGHT-FRAUD wouldn't even add him to the pre-approved bidder list.
The bottom line is this: The card wasn't trimmed, fight-fraud knows it, and he wants to hold on to the card (i.e., he won't even sell it).
<< <i>What kind of moron takes ONE AND A HALF MILLIMETERS off of a card?? There's NO WAY you could get a card like that past any reputable grading company. Anyone who's been doing this for longer than 6 months should know this.
BTW, GEM allows you to take 3 millimeters off of a card (for those scoring at home that's about 1/8"). >>
Please see above pictures.
<< <i>
<< <i>What kind of moron takes ONE AND A HALF MILLIMETERS off of a card?? There's NO WAY you could get a card like that past any reputable grading company. Anyone who's been doing this for longer than 6 months should know this.
BTW, GEM allows you to take 3 millimeters off of a card (for those scoring at home that's about 1/8"). >>
Please see above pictures.
Yeah, I certainly stand corrected. I would have lost a lot of money if someone had wanted to bet me that they could get a card like that into a PSA holder.
What a total embarrassment. PSA should be genuinely ashamed.
Donovan
It is a red flag, but there are many cards that are just naturally short...
I think if a card is naturally short by a lot, then PSA should call it a "Miscut" but not trimmed.
If it looks ok in a slab, then it is ok to grade in my opinion.
I will say this however, in the last few years there has been a ring of dealers that have quite the advanced way of trimming newer cards.
Be careful!
In this thread, I'm not the one accusing you of trimming cards. Fight-Fraud is.
I simply asked how many times you submitted the Willie Greene card to PSA before finally giving up on the grade (whether it's rejected as trimmed or came back as 8 or something other than 10) and selling it raw.
The facts are, you refused to issue him a refund when the card came back as trimmed from PSA and BGS. Then you gave him retalitatory negative feedback on ebay on a different transaction.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
current owner of the card in question I thought you might like some clarification from the other side.
jmbkb4 writes; 4 weeks after the counterfeit/trimmed Willie Greene was received by
the buyer, I also convinced him, via my evil business practice ways, to buy a Shane
Mack PSA 9 on eBay for $500 + shipping!!!
This is a rare true statement and one of the arguments he used in a failed attempt to keep
eBay from issuing a partial refund. However he DID NOT bother to explain to them, and
apparently hopes you'll overlook as well, the vast difference in the ability to tamper with a
raw ungraded card and one that has been professionally graded and encapsulated.
Nor does he mention here that it wasn't until he listed the PSA graded S Mack 4 weeks later
that I started to uncover all of the W Greene cards that he has submitted to PSA and were
rejected (19 so far) for not meeting minimum size requirements including the 2 that were
graded just prior to the S Mack (#31685063,31685064).
DaBigHurt writes; If I did that to someone and the buyer informed me the card he sent
to BGS/PSA came back as trimmed, I'd just return the guy his money
jmbkb4 writes; The card was NEVER sent in to BGS or PSA for grading. Never, Never,
Never. That is why a refund was not issued
That is where we started. After I discovered all of the rejected W Greene's I emailed the
seller and asked "if PSA rejects either of them will you issue a refund?"
His reply - "I do not offer refunds if the cards are mis-sized; ...I've never had a problem
with a Willie Greene." I guess 19+ rejects are no problem for him since he seems to
sell them easily. Since he had already dismissed the idea of a refund EVEN IF the card had
been submitted and then rejected the reason he states here is a lie.
DaBigHurt writes; it looks like you also gave him a retalitory negative feedback for the
Shane Mack card
jmbkb4 writes; If you'll notice, I received a negative feedback for a gorgeous Fred
McGriff I sold fight-fraud. One good turn deserves another!
The retaliatory negative feedback was not important to me and actually serves a purpose.
No seller cares how many negatives a buyer has as long as they get paid. Based on my
experience with this seller it was expected. In fact it was because the seller had left
immediate feedback for the McGriff but didn't leave any feedback for the W Greene and
even sent me an email the day I received it asking me to leave him feedback first that
started to arouse my suspicions.
jmbkb4 writes; I AM PAYING $1,000 FOR PSA OR BGS CERT. #S THAT FIGHT-FRAUD
SENT IN SHOWING THE WILLIE GREENE WAS TRIMMED AND NOT UNDERSIZED
PER THE FACTORY
Oh please. Put it back in your pants. The difference between this seller and myself is if the
situation were reversed he would shave off another couple of millimeters, send it in, and
then want to collect. That won't happen here because I don't need his money, I don't treat
people that way-even people like this seller, and of course he wouldn't pay up anyway.
The difference between us is not $1000, it is $131.50.
jmbkb4 writes; FYI..my most recent sub......Not bad..... 11/26 PSA 10s, 2 of which were
Willie Greene, who I apparently LOVE to trim.
And don't forget these grades you've received (#31685075, 31685076, 31685077, 31685078,
31685070, 06370269, 06370270, 06370271, 06370273, 06370274, 07134771, 07134772,
07134773, 07134788, 07134789, 07134790, 07134791, 07134792, 07134793, 07134794,
07164718, 07164719, 31685063, 31685064...)
jmbkb4 writes; The card is no larger and probably a little shorter than the Greene that
fight-fraud has been whining about.
During the majority of my dispute with this seller all I knew for sure was the card was seriously undersized. It wasn't until eBay asked for an independent authenticator's inspection of the card
that I learned it had been trimmed. The fact that he finally managed to get some graded doesn't
change that fact and has nothing to do with our dispute except, as the seller hopes, to confuse
the issue.
jmbkb4 writes; I have never trimmed a card in my life
CDsNuts writes; why would someone who collects this issue so obsessively trim cards
To be truthful I don't have any idea whether the seller trimmed the card or not. But I do know he
has sold at least one. And to answer CDsNuts question almost every issue has had their share
of trimmed cards and the reason is MONEY.
jmbkb4 writes; I would have happily refunded fight-fraud, but he was so vicious and accusatory,
he backed me into a corner. Once backed into a corner, I am not the nice guy I usually am.
Here is a copy of my vicious and accusatory email that that apparently backed the seller into a corner -
<< <i>I just received the PSA 9 Shane Mack. Thank you. I am about to submit the raw F McGriff and
W Greene refractors I bought from you to PSA. On the Collectors Universe Message Boards
you stated that-
The cards I've got listed raw are all PSA 9s at minimum
The Willie Greene card appears to be slightly undersized and if either of them is ungradable by
PSA they are worthless to me. Were you aware of any potential problems with these cards when
you sold them and if PSA rejects either of them will you issue a refund? >>
jmbkb4 writes; Oh, the funny thing is, he doesn't want his money back. In fact, he doesn't
even want to sell the card!!!
I was recently emailed by a fellow eBay member who legitimately wanted to buy the card but
FIGHT-FRAUD wouldn't even add him to the pre-approved bidder list.
The bottom line is this: The card wasn't trimmed, fight-fraud knows it, and he wants to hold on to
the card (i.e., he won't even sell it).
Selling the card was not the purpose of the auction but considering the response I've received
it is defininately serving its purpose. Until I've exhausted all other avenues of redress it will be
necessary for me to retain possession of the card. Did he really think I would turn over the key
piece of evidence against him to one of his friends? However, for a short time only, if the seller
is interested in buying this card that he still claims is untrimmed, the price is $131.50 plus $4.00
for shipping.
If you are considering buying raw ungraded cards from this seller I hope you'll find this
information as well as the sellers own statements useful and if I can shed any further
light on this matter feel free to email me.
fightfraud@aol.com
Deadman's Registry Sets
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Please excuse baseballfanatic from this thread.
Signed,
baseballfanatics Mom.
I know there are other issues at play here besides whether the card was trimmed...but if your card was one of the ones that PSA simply rejected for being undersized, then I'd be surprised if it was altered. I don't think they would offer a grading voucher (which they always do for cards deemed to be miscut at the factory) if they could find any irregularities in the card's cut under magnification that would allow them to reject it for trimming. I have to think that a card that short would also catch extra scrutiny in the grading room. At least I would hope so.
Obviously, I don't know who your independent authenticator was, but I also have to think that most people, if presented with a raw card bought off ebay that's well short, would be heavily inclined to say the card was trimmed instead of miscut/undersized.
jmbk, did all of those cards he sayas you submitted come back as trimmed?
Lee
<< <i>I'm beginning to rethink my original position. Not because of Fight-Fraud's post, which I have to admit is somewhat convincing, but I realized that with the stock Topps used on these cards along with their relative age, it's probably close to impossible to tell whether a 93 Finest card has been trimmed or was just cut short (which did happen, I pulled a few myself).
jmbk, did all of those cards he sayas you submitted come back as trimmed?
Lee >>
Absolutely not. Not a SINGLE Willie Greene has EVER come back as trimmed. fight-FRAUD can't produce any, is lying about his coming back from both PSA and BGS as trimmed (how about a SINGLE Cert. # to substantiate this?), and neither he nor DBH have anything to say about the PROOF I've provided about PSA being happy to grade a Willie Greene that is a little short, as this is how at least 60-75% of them came from the factory.
In any case, DBH has never addressed MY picture and is again lying about not being accusatory towards me.
BTW, just sold my Dave Fleming PSA 10 for $1,550. Sorry to disappoint you DBH.
So.........FIGHT-FRAUD, keep spending money on eBay with your sad little auctions; your dramatic stunt is pedestrian and of absolutely no consequence.
<< <i>During the majority of my dispute with this seller all I knew for sure was the card was seriously undersized. It wasn't until eBay asked for an independent authenticator's inspection of the card that I learned it had been trimmed.
I know there are other issues at play here besides whether the card was trimmed...but if your card was one of the ones that PSA simply rejected for being undersized, then I'd be surprised if it was altered. I don't think they would offer a grading voucher (which they always do for cards deemed to be miscut at the factory) if they could find any irregularities in the card's cut under magnification that would allow them to reject it for trimming. I have to think that a card that short would also catch extra scrutiny in the grading room. At least I would hope so.
Obviously, I don't know who your independent authenticator was, but I also have to think that most people, if presented with a raw card bought off ebay that's well short, would be heavily inclined to say the card was trimmed instead of miscut/undersized. >>
One of the few sensible, non-histrionic posts on here. There are numersous problems with fight-FRAUD's claim that the card was trimmed:
1. He is a known liar, stating that PSA and BGS both refused to grade the card because it was trimmed -- where's the PSA Cert. #?
2. If he wants to sell the card on eBay -- do it!! People know the card came from me and it will sell well. fight-FRAUD is a coward for not being willing to sell the card outright. This pre-approved bidder B.S. is humerous at best.
3. Who is this "independent authenticator?" Does he have any bridges for sale??? In short, it is obvious that fight-FRAUD's "indepent authenticator" is his wife who says, "Stop spending so much money on them dern baseball cards!!!" So you need to get some $$$ back.
4. Again, paying $1,000 cash for a PSA and/or BGS Cert. # that substantiates the claim that this card is TRIMMED.
fight-FRAUD is a coward, a fraud, and a liar.