Just curious. Did ebay charge your seller account for the $100+ refund? >>
NO. I received an email from an eBay representative "Henry" and he said in no uncertain terms that fight-FRAUD's claim was NOT well-founded, but, according to their policy, they had to refund him his money. I was not charged or implicated by eBay in any way.
I think the horrific letter he (fight-FRAUD) sent me with threats about contacting the hospital I work at, curse words directed at me, threatening to/filing a lawsuit with local authorities, and writing a nasty letter to the Missouri Board for the Healing Arts was disturbing to many/most/all on here, and really illuminated the situation nicely.
He also included a copy of a letter he sent to the USPS when he filed an official "mail fraud" claim. It was also full of arrogant statements about how much "fun" he has had doing this, commenting by name on other people he has "destroyed" and seemed downright psychotic about the whole thing.
In short, fight-FRAUD is getting all of his money back, and profiting over $100 as well through his eBay insurance profiting scheme. And he has the card at PSA right now.
I'm trying to picture jmbk's face when he went into work, the boss called him into his office, and said some guy called asking for references because he bought a $100 baseball card from him and he feels he got ripped off.
>>
It is a strange, strange world out there. Paying $135 to have fight-FRAUD out of my life is $$$ very well-spent.
We also, coincidentally, purchased a state of the art alarm system for our new home today, seriously.
And to think, you could've avoided the entire ordeal if you simply refunded the person his money when he showed you the card was well short compared to others. I'm glad you learned your lesson though.
<< <i>And to think, you could've avoided the entire ordeal if you simply refunded the person his money when he showed you the card was well short compared to others. I'm glad you learned your lesson though. >>
Simple thoughts from a simple mind.
Glad to know you're always fair about these things, oh "anonymous and wise one."
Please refer to the previous pictures of one of my Willie Greene PSA 10s that is shorter than the one fight-FRAUD was whining about.
You still want to talk Willie Greene? I thought you gave up on that because you were caught lying so many times and started on this whole pretending to be fearful of your family's safety and all that BS.
But okay, let's talk Willie Greene.
You sold a card that was short. The buyer said it was short. You agreed, but said in an e-mail to Fight-fraud, "I have submitted several Willie Greenes to PSA myself and have received a couple of 10s, 5-6 9's, and an 8. I have never had a problem with a Willie Greene."
Of course, now we all know you've had A LOT of major problems submitting Willie Greene cards to PSA. All those cert numbers with those Willie Greenes coming back "min size req'd" speaks for itself.
Now, if you want me to, I can copy/paste exactly what you said and then some, but I think you realize at this point, you're fighting a losing battle, no?
Or do you still want to scream hysterically about how you're receiving threatening emails to your family and all that just to curry sympathy?
Instead of trying to be a radiologist, you should become a politician since lying and dodging questions is what you do best. And if anyone ever confronts you on your blatant lying, you can just feign outrage and accuse them of planning to attack your family or what not.
Here's what we know about you.
You sell a Willie Greene card that was obviously shorter when compared to other refractors. Instead of being up front and honest to the buyer, you BS and claim the card is perfectly fine:
Now of course, we know your true history with MORE THAN A DOZEN Willie Greene refractors being rejected for being too small.
The PSA cert numbers, YOUR cert numbers speak for themselves:
So what do we know about Doctor*daddy's Ebay selling practices? He'll lie to you about cards. He'll say anything to make a sale. He'll tell you he's submitted many of the exact same cards before and never had a problem. He won't accept returns even if it's shown the cards are obvioiusly too small in size. He'll give you retalitory negative feedbacks for transactions that have nothing to do with ones in dispute.
And he's also a hypocrite. When he buys cards that are "undersized," he expects a refund. Here's the negative feedback he left for WCsports1 for selling him midget cards:
PSA refused to grade this seller's card. Seller sells miscut/mis-sized/trimmed. Seller wcsports1( 764Feedback score is 500 to 999) Oct-28-05 18:39 8707589091 Actual link
Aside from all that's been revealed about Doctor*daddy/JMB, I'm sure he's a swell guy!
Would someone be kind enough to post eBay handles in regard to this thread? I completely understand if no one will but at least shoot me a PM. I would appreciate it.
please, let this thread die quickly as we are tried of hearing about
You speaking for the entire SC&MF now Diamond? If you are tired seeing it don't click on it. It's as simple as that. I'd like to know what is going on. So please do not speak for me.
<< <i>Would someone be kind enough to post eBay handles in regard to this thread? I completely understand if no one will but at least shoot me a PM. I would appreciate it.
Arthur >>
The first post has a link to the auction. check the seller's feedback - the 2 negatives are from the other person involved
I read this thread and the other one and still can't make heads or tails of it. The facts are not presented completely and coherently, so it is hard to really know for sure what is really going on. The forum members played the jury many times for as long as I been here at least. Even though our verdict does not get anyone money, it does give a sense of validation to the person that is justified (that in itself is a victory). Unfortunately, I can not do this here and I see other board members also have difficulty.
This is sad. Although I do not know who this "fight-Fraud" is, I have had message exchanges with jmbkb4 on this board. Because I kind of know jmbkb4 from these boards, I really wanted to understand his current problem. Its a complex issue with a lot of variables.
One thing we are all waiting for is the PSA submission for this Willy Greene card that fight-fraud stated that if it grades, he will refund jmbkb4 his money. Do we really know if the same Willy Greene card sold to fight-fraud is the same one being submitted to PSA....that's something to keep in mind no matter what the results of the submission are. This is why I think this case can never be closed.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
I'm just curious why jmb didn't submit the Green in question when he recently submitted others....
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
1. Basically, jmbkb4 sold fight-fraud a card fight-fraud felt was short for $135.50.
2. Fight-fraud had the card authenticated by his friend but will not disclose his friend's name.
3. Jmbkb4 refused to refund fight-fraud's money based on the mystery authenticator's accessment.
4. Fight-fraud contacted or threatened to contact jmbkb4's employer, the state attorney general and medical review board over the baseball card transaction. Apparently, there may have been some threats to jmbkb4's family too.
5. Jmbkb4 refunded fight-fraud $135.50.
6. Fight-fraud now has $135.50 from jmbkb4 and an additional $100.00 from ebay buyer protection.
7. Fight-fraud has not returned the baseball card to jmbkb4.
8. Fight-fraud despite the refund may destroy the baseball card.
The sad thing is that people who do this kind of stuff - take advantage of other people and the system, do it in other places also.
I'm very close to my second retirement and I've got to be honest - I don't want to see another state or federal law - regulation - rule - idea of a rule or law or regulation till the day they bury me with my cards!
Even if Fight-Fraud was righteous in demanding a refund, I think its absolutely pathetic if in fact he contacted his employer, medical review board, and made threats against jmbk4's family. It's actually more than pathetic...its just down right disgusting.
I dont know if jmbk4 was justified initially about not refunding his money...as DeutcherGeist stated, too many variables to make that opinion from here. What remains is that jmbk4 has refunded his money and Fight-Fraud keeps the card hostage.
What if Fight-Fraud has another Greene that will come back that it does not meet size requirement? Do we know that he hasnt had a similar card in his possession? Whatever the result of this "hostage" card, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Fight-Fraud may want to stick it to jmbk4 because of this whole thing happening. What I am saying is that there is no way to prove the card sent to PSA is the one that was from jmbk4.
There is just too much crap going on here for anyone to know the whole truth. In the end, jmbk4 should have the card returned to him in the condition it was sent to Fight-Fraud. End of story. There should have been no submission to PSA by Fight-Fraud..he had no right because it's not his card.
Again, let me say I am not choosing sides...this is just what I am seeing. Hopefully this will all go by the wayside for both. For goodness sake, its 135.00!!! I know it isnt as meaningless as 20 bucks but is 135 bucks worth all this madness?????
I'm taking donations to help JMB/Doctor*daddy buy a new security system, a rottweiler and a louisville slugger to protect his house and family from the evil fight-fraud.
Please send donations to: myfamilyisbeingthreatened@JMBisBadatLying.com.
I would like to thank you for posting about this in the first place. After reading this thread I am blocking "fight-fraud" from my ebay auctions to ensure he does not report me to the FBI because he is unhappy with a card.
No problem. I'm always happy to help my fellow board members.
Meanwhile, I'm going to make sure I avoid JMB/Doctor*daddy's auctions. I can't stand sellers who constantly lie and sells cards rejected by PSA because they're 2 millimeters short. Oh yeah, he also holds feedback hostage and hands out retaliatory negative feedbacks.
I better stop talking bad about him. I'd hate to have him threaten my family or anything like that.
I have been reading all this mess but have not commited until now. I have never owned any of the refractors from this set so I'm not real familar with them. I have a question about them being cut short. I am assuming these cards are printed on a sheet of probably 132 cards like a lot of the Topps cards. Someone said earlier that a lot of the Willie Green refractor cards are cut short. Since they are machine cut wouldn't all the cards on the same row as this card be cut short. Are there several more cards from this set that are found to be cut short a lot? It also seems like the row below this one would be badly off centered. I may be wrong in my thinking here. If so, someone please correct me. James
However, I read the whole thing last Friday. That night, an AH buyer began extorting me for a post-delivery rebate on a $200.00+ item that he said had "a spot on the back of it that is visible with a loupe."
He wanted $20.00 of his purchase price returned to him.
Right after the BIN, he had started bugging me with nonsense Qs and comments via email. I had a bad feeling about him so I violated my FB rules AND DID NOT leave FB first.
Having just read this refractor saga, I immediately PayPaled him $20.00. A few minutes later, he left positive FB; I returned the pos FB.
The AH has over 500 FB and my subject account is new with less than 75 FB. He kind of had me stuck with no options. At least I had not already left FB when he got after me.
There are many crazy and psychotic people on EBAY. I may even be one of them. But, after the refractor tale, I had no choice but to bow to the extortion of the bad buyer.
My transaction was not with cards so his ID is not important to this board, but I blocked him in my relevant store.
So, some good came from the refractor story. I guess.
It turned me into a refunding-chicken for the first time in 45 years.
storm
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>I'm taking donations to help JMB/Doctor*daddy buy a new security system, a rottweiler and a louisville slugger to protect his house and family from the evil fight-fraud.
Please send donations to: myfamilyisbeingthreatened@JMBisBadatLying.com.
Thanks for all your help in advance!!
>>
In all seriousness, if anyone truly was threatened, that's a pretty tasteless comment, even for you DBH.
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have?
you have been doing business for 45 years? I always thought of you as my peer (32). This is the strange thing about this message board format. You can talk to people and have a good feel for them, yet still know little about them. Always enjoy your posts, insights and pearls of wisdom.
You were not wrong in giving that partial refund. Some people are just more detail oriented than others and I think its OK to accomodate that every once and awhile. You be surprised what horrible condition some people are happy with, so it all balances out. Look how quickly he gave you positive feedback afterwards and you were done with it.
"So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
>>
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'.
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
>>
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
>>
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
>>
I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not sure I know what you're talking about, Mike.
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
>>
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
>>
I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not sure I know what you're talking about, Mike. >>
Boo
I was just messin around.
You asked some questions - ya know like you were in court. And, I, like I representing the plaintiff, objected to your questions - under the grounds that they were leading the witness.
I guess I watch too many court shows! Get it? I wasn't making any sense.
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw? 2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
>>
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
>>
I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not sure I know what you're talking about, Mike. >>
Boo
I was just messin around.
You asked some questions - ya know like you were in court. And, I, like I representing the plaintiff, objected to your questions - under the grounds that they were leading the witness.
I guess I watch too many court shows! Get it? I wasn't making any sense.
I am so glad we are talking refractors because this is the best way to not only find out how many have been damaged, BUT we can stir up attention to these gems which will result ultimately in a rising demand for them! I know alot of your guys don't like the 1993 refractors, but that is mostly because you don't understand what these cards represent. In my opinion, the future is on the side of the '93 refractor not the older bowman and topps cards some of you are so in love with. At the West coast card shows, I always see the Rare older cards just sitting in a glass case selling for something like $14,000 dollars and having people just look at them! DO THESE CARDS EVER GET SOLD? Heck, donate them to the Baseball hall of fame and stick the government with the bill at tax time, if your really want to sell them. The level of prejudice against modern cards is what is going to kill the hobby. In addition, the lack of collector education about the modern cards hurts the progress of our hobby. Things are not all simple and basic as they were in the good old 1950's, realize that and accept it! Cards are refractored, paralleled, and 1 of1'd to all heck now a days and, we the true collectors need to know how to navigate through this chaos, so we can make our hobby stronger. If we don't try and put aside our own card prejudices, we are dooming our collections and the entire hobby. When I was a kid and saw how expensive the Mantle cards were, I swore one day that I would pay as much money as possible to buy the next mantles and the next gehrigs! I was going to buy the rare cards that had real growth potential, for my kids and family, because I did not want my kid to feel like his dream card was out of reach, the way I did. If you guys would just look at the population report for PSA, BGS, and SGC, you will see that the RAW refractors are truly RUNNING OUT! For example, the Mark Mcgwire refractor 1993 is nearly at 200 graded. BGS and SGC have graded an additional 16 between them both. Eventually, the number of graded cards will hit 241! What will happen then, guys? What happens when there are no more refractors in raw condition? The prices are so rediculously low right now that 1 person could, conceivably, buy a good chunk of all the refractors for one player, and still have enough to pick up any raw, short willie greenes in the process! Beckett magazine is so out of touch for not seeing the refractor scarcity coming up! In fact, there are super hoards of raw refractors possessed by members of this board who have not graded their stuff. Just ask RangerCalfas! Add in their hoards to the ones graded by PSA and BGS and you will all see that we are witnessing the end of the cheap availability of 1993 refractors. If a sudden thing was to cause demand to increase, each card would race to over a thousand dollars, easily. The Ryan, Ripken, and Mcgwire would be astronomical! I think the Willie Greene card should be made a big deal. Tell the media, Tell Beckett, Tell everybody, because it will cause a scavenger hunt through every refractor hoard and if it turns out that some idiot in 1993 trimmed a good deal of them, then the number of refractors in unaltered form will fall. The price, because of scarcity will rise. Am I the only one who knows this? Facts are facts, the 1993 refractors marks the beginning of the modern baseball cards, not the overproduced 1989 Upper Deck. The cards are limited, and eventually finding one in raw form will be impossible. It has started already, because it is so impossible to find the Nolan Ryan refractor. The Ripken and Mcgwire are next. Do not believe Beckett Magazine. And EBAY list these cards but they won't reappear at such a cheap price again. Not only that, but if you guys want to buy the 1993 Mcgwire Refractors showing on ebay- good luck -- because I am going to pay any price to buy them both. In fact-I am intending to buy every Mcgwire 1993 refractor that comes up on ebay from now on! I already have 20 of them, 5 graded and 15 raw! I do this because I know how rare these cards are, in any condition and because I am a Mark Mcgwire Baseball card super collector! So start spreading the news!! When is anyone going to talk about the 1996 Select Certified Mirror Golds?
- jmbk has Wille Greene card rejected by PSA several times for not meeting min. size requirements - jmbk lists card on ebay without mentioning card is short - fight-fraud is high bidder and upset that card is short, thinks it's trimmed, and asks for refund - jmbk refuses refund even though he knows card was short because it's been rejected by PSA numerous times, most likely because fight-fraud took an unpleasant tone from the getgo. - fight-fraud shows card to random guy in the business who tells him it's trimmed and decides to wage war and tries to ruin jmbk's life in any way he can over $100 card - jmbk decides to refund money to end the headache - fight-fraud, for whatever reason, decides to send card to PSA, when it will no doubt not meet minimum size requirements to be graded - If it's graded, fight-fraud will...... blah blah blah
Seems like they're both in the wrong. I guess we're at the point where we decide who is wronger. I guess the lesson here is when you sell on ebay, full disclosure in terms of condition is the way to go, and if you get ripped off a little bit don't go all vigilante and act crazy.
Congratulations on all parties involved for wasting a week's worth of time and energy over a $100 transaction.
Lee
ps- Oh, and now I'm afraid to buy 93 Finest refractors, raw or graded.
An important distinction needs to be made here. First off, DBH and/or fight-FRAUD graciously edited my initial email to fight-FRAUD. The only comment I made to fight-FRAUD was that I had never had a Willie Greene refractor come back as Trimmed, which is 100% true. Numerous refractors come back failing to meet minimum size requirements. This is a problem with these cards. On their second submission, the cards are inevitably graded.
Furthermore, should I have mentioned in the auction that the card may be rejected by PSA for failure to meet minimun size requirements, when I have had 2 PSA 10s graded that were a little *shorter* than the card that was actually sold, and I have posted pictures to definitively substantiate this? ------------ probably.
That was my mistake.
What fight-FRAUD did was completely ridiculous from the beginning:
1. He initially told me that he "knew" the card was TRIMMED and how I had better refund him his money. So, with his tone, I became stubborn and said 'no way.' Keep in mind, he brought this up 6 WEEKS after he received the card, and bought a different $500 card from me. This is fishy.
2. He filed a fraud charge, provided eBay with the bogus letter from his friend, and received $131.50 - $25 = $106.50 back.
3. Not stopping there, he filed a USPS Mail Fraud charge, wrote a horribly nasty letter about me (with curse words) to his "USPS Postal Worker friend," wrote a letter to the Missouri Board for the Healing Arts about my "fraud," wrote a letter to the hospital where I work, and made a vague threat about my family in a letter to me.
4. I said, "HOLY SH!T" and refunded him his money, in full. The guy's obviously mentally unstable and people do crazy things. DBH has made light of this. DBH obviously lives alone and has nothing better to than email people such as fight-FRAUD and take the time to scan & change emails, etc. If he had a family, he might think differently.
5. In any case, I'll obviously never see the Willie Greene card again, which is fine, but kind of annoying.
6. I think one fact of the case that has been overlooked and DBH has never addressed is the fact that I have had several Willie Greenes graded by PSA that were OBVIOUSLY very short. I have posted pictures of this, which are both conclusive and undeniable. Last Friday, I received 4 PSA 9 Willie Greenes that were the same length as the one fight-FRAUD received. No one seems to want to comment on this fact.
7. To DBH: your personal slams at me are obviously substiutions for any intelligent dialogue on the matter. You have lost even more credibility here.
Comments
Forget blocking him; find out where he lives and go punch him in the nuts. --WalterSobchak 9/12/12
Looking for Al Hrabosky and any OPC Dave Campbells (the ESPN guy)
Collect what you like.
Edited to add: BTW thanks for helping me kill 1/2 hour at work.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
<< <i>The only question I have is why are people spending $$$$$ on 1993 cards? Sorry had to say it.
Collect what you like.
Edited to add: BTW thanks for helping me kill 1/2 hour at work.
I know what you mean. You wouldn't believe what rare PSA 10s of this set go for. See Shane Mack PSA 10 1/1 above....
Upon receipt of the refund, Fight-Fraud no longer owns the card and it is not up to him to destroy it.
His behavior can only be described as psychotic and I certainly have added him to my blocked bidder list.
Just curious. Did ebay charge your seller account for the $100+ refund?
<< <i>jmbk -
Just curious. Did ebay charge your seller account for the $100+ refund? >>
NO. I received an email from an eBay representative "Henry" and he said in no uncertain terms that fight-FRAUD's claim was NOT well-founded, but, according to their policy, they had to refund him his money. I was not charged or implicated by eBay in any way.
I think the horrific letter he (fight-FRAUD) sent me with threats about contacting the hospital I work at, curse words directed at me, threatening to/filing a lawsuit with local authorities, and writing a nasty letter to the Missouri Board for the Healing Arts was disturbing to many/most/all on here, and really illuminated the situation nicely.
He also included a copy of a letter he sent to the USPS when he filed an official "mail fraud" claim. It was also full of arrogant statements about how much "fun" he has had doing this, commenting by name on other people he has "destroyed" and seemed downright psychotic about the whole thing.
In short, fight-FRAUD is getting all of his money back, and profiting over $100 as well through his eBay insurance profiting scheme. And he has the card at PSA right now.
Boy, did I take advantage of him --
<< <i>
I'm trying to picture jmbk's face when he went into work, the boss called him into his office, and said some guy called asking for references because he bought a $100 baseball card from him and he feels he got ripped off.
>>
It is a strange, strange world out there. Paying $135 to have fight-FRAUD out of my life is $$$ very well-spent.
We also, coincidentally, purchased a state of the art alarm system for our new home today, seriously.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>And to think, you could've avoided the entire ordeal if you simply refunded the person his money when he showed you the card was well short compared to others. I'm glad you learned your lesson though.
Simple thoughts from a simple mind.
Glad to know you're always fair about these things, oh "anonymous and wise one."
Please refer to the previous pictures of one of my Willie Greene PSA 10s that is shorter than the one fight-FRAUD was whining about.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>Shouldn't you be busy protecting your family or something right now instead of posting on a message board?
I'm on call and it's slow right now. But thanks for your concern.
Now I see why everyone on here likes you so much!!!
After thousands of posts on here, do I find you speechless????
But okay, let's talk Willie Greene.
You sold a card that was short. The buyer said it was short. You agreed, but said in an e-mail to Fight-fraud, "I have submitted several Willie Greenes to PSA myself and have received a couple of 10s, 5-6 9's, and an 8. I have never had a problem with a Willie Greene."
Of course, now we all know you've had A LOT of major problems submitting Willie Greene cards to PSA. All those cert numbers with those Willie Greenes coming back "min size req'd" speaks for itself.
Now, if you want me to, I can copy/paste exactly what you said and then some, but I think you realize at this point, you're fighting a losing battle, no?
Or do you still want to scream hysterically about how you're receiving threatening emails to your family and all that just to curry sympathy?
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
you must not have the intellectual acuity to answer my question, so I'll make it simple to you:
COMPARE THE "TRIMMED" WILLIE GREENE CARD THAT fight-FRAUD HAS BEEN WHINING ABOUT AND THE PSA 10 CARD I RECEIVED FROM PSA.
If you're too stupid to answer, I'll understand.
Here's what we know about you.
You sell a Willie Greene card that was obviously shorter when compared to other refractors. Instead of being up front and honest to the buyer, you BS and claim the card is perfectly fine:
Now of course, we know your true history with MORE THAN A DOZEN Willie Greene refractors being rejected for being too small.
The PSA cert numbers, YOUR cert numbers speak for themselves:
31685075, 31685076, 31685077, 31685078, 31685070, 06370269, 06370270, 06370271, 06370273, 06370274, 07134771, 07134772,
07134773, 07134788, 07134789, 07134790, 07134791, 07134792, 07134793, 07134794, 07164718, 07164719, 31685063, 31685064
So what do we know about Doctor*daddy's Ebay selling practices? He'll lie to you about cards. He'll say anything to make a sale. He'll tell you he's submitted many of the exact same cards before and never had a problem. He won't accept returns even if it's shown the cards are obvioiusly too small in size. He'll give you retalitory negative feedbacks for transactions that have nothing to do with ones in dispute.
And he's also a hypocrite. When he buys cards that are "undersized," he expects a refund. Here's the negative feedback he left for WCsports1 for selling him midget cards:
PSA refused to grade this seller's card. Seller sells miscut/mis-sized/trimmed.
Seller wcsports1( 764Feedback score is 500 to 999) Oct-28-05 18:39 8707589091
Actual link
Aside from all that's been revealed about Doctor*daddy/JMB, I'm sure he's a swell guy!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
Arthur
You speaking for the entire SC&MF now Diamond? If you are tired seeing it don't click on it. It's as simple as that. I'd like to know what is going on. So please do not speak for me.
Thanks
Steve
<< <i>Would someone be kind enough to post eBay handles in regard to this thread? I completely understand if no one will but at least shoot me a PM. I would appreciate it.
Arthur >>
The first post has a link to the auction. check the seller's feedback - the 2 negatives are from the other person involved
Just read the entire thing. I still dont know who's right and who's wrong, but I learned a lot. That was a hell of a ride.
This is sad. Although I do not know who this "fight-Fraud" is, I have had message exchanges with jmbkb4 on this board. Because I kind of know jmbkb4 from these boards, I really wanted to understand his current problem. Its a complex issue with a lot of variables.
One thing we are all waiting for is the PSA submission for this Willy Greene card that fight-fraud stated that if it grades, he will refund jmbkb4 his money. Do we really know if the same Willy Greene card sold to fight-fraud is the same one being submitted to PSA....that's something to keep in mind no matter what the results of the submission are. This is why I think this case can never be closed.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
Can someone who has read it today give us the Cliff notes?
thanx
mike
1. Basically, jmbkb4 sold fight-fraud a card fight-fraud felt was short for $135.50.
2. Fight-fraud had the card authenticated by his friend but will not disclose his friend's name.
3. Jmbkb4 refused to refund fight-fraud's money based on the mystery authenticator's accessment.
4. Fight-fraud contacted or threatened to contact jmbkb4's employer, the state attorney general and medical review board over the baseball card transaction. Apparently, there may have been some threats to jmbkb4's family too.
5. Jmbkb4 refunded fight-fraud $135.50.
6. Fight-fraud now has $135.50 from jmbkb4 and an additional $100.00 from ebay buyer protection.
7. Fight-fraud has not returned the baseball card to jmbkb4.
8. Fight-fraud despite the refund may destroy the baseball card.
<< <i>threatened to contact jmbkb4's employer, the state attorney general and medical review board over the baseball card transaction. >>
I'm back up to speed.
The sad thing is that people who do this kind of stuff - take advantage of other people and the system, do it in other places also.
I'm very close to my second retirement and I've got to be honest - I don't want to see another state or federal law - regulation - rule - idea of a rule or law or regulation till the day they bury me with my cards!
mike
I dont know if jmbk4 was justified initially about not refunding his money...as DeutcherGeist stated, too many variables to make that opinion from here. What remains is that jmbk4 has refunded his money and Fight-Fraud keeps the card hostage.
What if Fight-Fraud has another Greene that will come back that it does not meet size requirement? Do we know that he hasnt had a similar card in his possession? Whatever the result of this "hostage" card, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Fight-Fraud may want to stick it to jmbk4 because of this whole thing happening. What I am saying is that there is no way to prove the card sent to PSA is the one that was from jmbk4.
There is just too much crap going on here for anyone to know the whole truth. In the end, jmbk4 should have the card returned to him in the condition it was sent to Fight-Fraud. End of story. There should have been no submission to PSA by Fight-Fraud..he had no right because it's not his card.
Again, let me say I am not choosing sides...this is just what I am seeing. Hopefully this will all go by the wayside for both. For goodness sake, its 135.00!!! I know it isnt as meaningless as 20 bucks but is 135 bucks worth all this madness?????
Please send donations to: myfamilyisbeingthreatened@JMBisBadatLying.com.
Thanks for all your help in advance!!
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
<< <i>I know it isnt as meaningless as 20 bucks but is 135 bucks worth all this madness????? >>
Yankee
Madness knows no boundries.
mike
I would like to thank you for posting about this in the first place. After reading this thread I am blocking "fight-fraud" from my ebay auctions to ensure he does not report me to the FBI because he is unhappy with a card.
Meanwhile, I'm going to make sure I avoid JMB/Doctor*daddy's auctions. I can't stand sellers who constantly lie and sells cards rejected by PSA because they're 2 millimeters short. Oh yeah, he also holds feedback hostage and hands out retaliatory negative feedbacks.
I better stop talking bad about him. I'd hate to have him threaten my family or anything like that.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
James
However, I read the whole thing last Friday. That
night, an AH buyer began extorting me for a post-delivery
rebate on a $200.00+ item that he said had "a spot on the
back of it that is visible with a loupe."
He wanted $20.00 of his purchase price returned to him.
Right after the BIN, he had started bugging me with nonsense
Qs and comments via email. I had a bad feeling about him so
I violated my FB rules AND DID NOT leave FB first.
Having just read this refractor saga, I immediately PayPaled him
$20.00. A few minutes later, he left positive FB; I returned
the pos FB.
The AH has over 500 FB and my subject account is new with
less than 75 FB. He kind of had me stuck with no options.
At least I had not already left FB when he got after me.
There are many crazy and psychotic people on EBAY. I may
even be one of them. But, after the refractor tale, I had no
choice but to bow to the extortion of the bad buyer.
My transaction was not with cards so his ID is not important
to this board, but I blocked him in my relevant store.
So, some good came from the refractor story. I guess.
It turned me into a refunding-chicken for the first time in 45 years.
storm
<< <i>I'm taking donations to help JMB/Doctor*daddy buy a new security system, a rottweiler and a louisville slugger to protect his house and family from the evil fight-fraud.
Please send donations to: myfamilyisbeingthreatened@JMBisBadatLying.com.
Thanks for all your help in advance!!
In all seriousness, if anyone truly was threatened, that's a pretty tasteless comment, even for you DBH.
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have?
you have been doing business for 45 years? I always thought of you as my peer (32). This is the strange thing about this message board format. You can talk to people and have a good feel for them, yet still know little about them. Always enjoy your posts, insights and pearls of wisdom.
You were not wrong in giving that partial refund. Some people are just more detail oriented than others and I think its OK to accomodate that every once and awhile. You be surprised what horrible condition some people are happy with, so it all balances out. Look how quickly he gave you positive feedback afterwards and you were done with it.
BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
<< <i>Two questions for doctor daddy-
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
<< <i>
<< <i>Two questions for doctor daddy-
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Two questions for doctor daddy-
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Two questions for doctor daddy-
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not sure I know what you're talking about, Mike.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Two questions for doctor daddy-
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not sure I know what you're talking about, Mike. >>
Boo
I was just messin around.
You asked some questions - ya know like you were in court. And, I, like I representing the plaintiff, objected to your questions - under the grounds that they were leading the witness.
I guess I watch too many court shows!
Get it?
I wasn't making any sense.
mike
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Two questions for doctor daddy-
1) The card was perfect in every way, as you described it in your auction, then why didn't you send it into PSA as opposed to selling it raw?
2) Why did you tell fight fraud that you had never had a Willie Greene rejected, when in fact we know that you have? >>
I OBJECT! Your Honor
The counselor is leading the witness.
How? I'm under the impression that he has had Willie Greene cards rejected before, and I'm also curious as to why he would sell it raw if it was 'perfect in every way'. >>
Irony reset please?
Objection overruled.
I hate to be obtuse, but I'm not sure I know what you're talking about, Mike. >>
Boo
I was just messin around.
You asked some questions - ya know like you were in court. And, I, like I representing the plaintiff, objected to your questions - under the grounds that they were leading the witness.
I guess I watch too many court shows!
Get it?
I wasn't making any sense.
mike >>
LOL! OK, I get it now. Please excuse my dimness.
The level of prejudice against modern cards is what is going to kill the hobby. In addition, the lack of collector education about the modern cards hurts the progress of our hobby. Things are not all simple and basic as they were in the good old 1950's, realize that and accept it! Cards are refractored, paralleled, and 1 of1'd to all heck now a days and, we the true collectors need to know how to navigate through this chaos, so we can make our hobby stronger. If we don't try and put aside our own card prejudices, we are dooming our collections and the entire hobby.
When I was a kid and saw how expensive the Mantle cards were, I swore one day that I would pay as much money as possible to buy the next mantles and the next gehrigs! I was going to buy the rare cards that had real growth potential, for my kids and family, because I did not want my kid to feel like his dream card was out of reach, the way I did.
If you guys would just look at the population report for PSA, BGS, and SGC, you will see that the RAW refractors are truly RUNNING OUT! For example, the Mark Mcgwire refractor 1993 is nearly at 200 graded. BGS and SGC have graded an additional 16 between them both. Eventually, the number of graded cards will hit 241! What will happen then, guys? What happens when there are no more refractors in raw condition? The prices are so rediculously low right now that 1 person could, conceivably, buy a good chunk of all the refractors for one player, and still have enough to pick up any raw, short willie greenes in the process! Beckett magazine is so out of touch for not seeing the refractor scarcity coming up!
In fact, there are super hoards of raw refractors possessed by members of this board who have not graded their stuff. Just ask RangerCalfas! Add in their hoards to the ones graded by PSA and BGS and you will all see that we are witnessing the end of the cheap availability of 1993 refractors. If a sudden thing was to cause demand to increase, each card would race to over a thousand dollars, easily. The Ryan, Ripken, and Mcgwire would be astronomical!
I think the Willie Greene card should be made a big deal. Tell the media, Tell Beckett, Tell everybody, because it will cause a scavenger hunt through every refractor hoard and if it turns out that some idiot in 1993 trimmed a good deal of them, then the number of refractors in unaltered form will fall. The price, because of scarcity will rise. Am I the only one who knows this? Facts are facts, the 1993 refractors marks the beginning of the modern baseball cards, not the overproduced 1989 Upper Deck. The cards are limited, and eventually finding one in raw form will be impossible. It has started already, because it is so impossible to find the Nolan Ryan refractor. The Ripken and Mcgwire are next.
Do not believe Beckett Magazine. And EBAY list these cards but they won't reappear at such a cheap price again. Not only that, but if you guys want to buy the 1993 Mcgwire Refractors showing on ebay- good luck -- because I am going to pay any price to buy them both. In fact-I am intending to buy every Mcgwire 1993 refractor that comes up on ebay from now on! I already have 20 of them, 5 graded and 15 raw! I do this because I know how rare these cards are, in any condition and because I am a Mark Mcgwire Baseball card super collector!
So start spreading the news!!
When is anyone going to talk about the 1996 Select Certified Mirror Golds?
- jmbk has Wille Greene card rejected by PSA several times for not meeting min. size requirements
- jmbk lists card on ebay without mentioning card is short
- fight-fraud is high bidder and upset that card is short, thinks it's trimmed, and asks for refund
- jmbk refuses refund even though he knows card was short because it's been rejected by PSA numerous times, most likely because fight-fraud took an unpleasant tone from the getgo.
- fight-fraud shows card to random guy in the business who tells him it's trimmed and decides to wage war and tries to ruin jmbk's life in any way he can over $100 card
- jmbk decides to refund money to end the headache
- fight-fraud, for whatever reason, decides to send card to PSA, when it will no doubt not meet minimum size requirements to be graded
- If it's graded, fight-fraud will...... blah blah blah
Seems like they're both in the wrong. I guess we're at the point where we decide who is wronger. I guess the lesson here is when you sell on ebay, full disclosure in terms of condition is the way to go, and if you get ripped off a little bit don't go all vigilante and act crazy.
Congratulations on all parties involved for wasting a week's worth of time and energy over a $100 transaction.
Lee
ps- Oh, and now I'm afraid to buy 93 Finest refractors, raw or graded.
Furthermore, should I have mentioned in the auction that the card may be rejected by PSA for failure to meet minimun size requirements, when I have had 2 PSA 10s graded that were a little *shorter* than the card that was actually sold, and I have posted pictures to definitively substantiate this? ------------ probably.
That was my mistake.
What fight-FRAUD did was completely ridiculous from the beginning:
1. He initially told me that he "knew" the card was TRIMMED and how I had better refund him his money. So, with his tone, I became stubborn and said 'no way.' Keep in mind, he brought this up 6 WEEKS after he received the card, and bought a different $500 card from me. This is fishy.
2. He filed a fraud charge, provided eBay with the bogus letter from his friend, and received $131.50 - $25 = $106.50 back.
3. Not stopping there, he filed a USPS Mail Fraud charge, wrote a horribly nasty letter about me (with curse words) to his "USPS Postal Worker friend," wrote a letter to the Missouri Board for the Healing Arts about my "fraud," wrote a letter to the hospital where I work, and made a vague threat about my family in a letter to me.
4. I said, "HOLY SH!T" and refunded him his money, in full. The guy's obviously mentally unstable and people do crazy things. DBH has made light of this. DBH obviously lives alone and has nothing better to than email people such as fight-FRAUD and take the time to scan & change emails, etc. If he had a family, he might think differently.
5. In any case, I'll obviously never see the Willie Greene card again, which is fine, but kind of annoying.
6. I think one fact of the case that has been overlooked and DBH has never addressed is the fact that I have had several Willie Greenes graded by PSA that were OBVIOUSLY very short. I have posted pictures of this, which are both conclusive and undeniable. Last Friday, I received 4 PSA 9 Willie Greenes that were the same length as the one fight-FRAUD received. No one seems to want to comment on this fact.
7. To DBH: your personal slams at me are obviously substiutions for any intelligent dialogue on the matter. You have lost even more credibility here.