Ax, no teams are being run out of baseball. Your drama is pathetic.
Ax, if fans in other cities showed up for games when their team was in the race maybe they could keep more players.
Ax, If there were no Yankees other teams would draw in MILLIONS less per year. Every time the Yankees come to town attendence doubles and triples in most venues. Not to mention the luxury tax handouts they have to give.
Ax, revenue sharing is communism.
Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly.
Ax, Baseball popularity and attendence is at an all time high, depsite recent controversies, and definately despite what you will have others believe.
Ax, Steinbrenner reaches into his OWN pocket year after year and pulls money out, while other owner reach into their pockets only to stuff and hide money further down in them.
Ax, everything you have previously mentioned is based purely on jealousy and does not hold any basis in fact.
Ax, money is not the key to winning. Please read thread in its entirety to discover reasons why.
Ax, did I mention baseball is doing just fine ?
Ax, when was the last time you went and supported the Mariners by going to a game ?
Ax, dont forget that sig line bet you made with Dan.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is.
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
Then why is the Super Bowl the biggest day not only in legal sports books but also with illegal bookies?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
I cannot disagree more. This notion that the cap has been what made football is just not true. It is a convenient way to argue why baseball should have a cap, and nothing more.
Football is an extention of our society, more aggressive & more violent. Naturally it has gained popularity due to this. One day a week for games has made it an event, a place to gather, drink, etc and watch the game....BUT....
To ignore the extent gambling plays into football is ignoring the facts and the truth.
In the end, football is a watered down shell of its former self. Take away every office pool, fantasy league, betting ticket, online gambling site, etc and see where football would be. My friends, dont be fooled, and dont believe this nonsense over the salary cap. GAMBLING over anything else runs football.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>My friends, dont be fooled, and dont believe this nonsense over the salary cap. GAMBLING over anything else runs football. >>
The funny thing is that football (college and NFL) is always talking about cracking down on gambling even as they realize privately that gambling has a *huge* impact on public interest in football.
In public, they have to look anti-gambling, but under the sheets they KNOW gambling is giving their ratings and revenues a huge boost. Sort of like government anti-smoking campaigns and cigarette taxes, I guess.
<< <i>I disagree teams have made and lost money since the begining of the game look at boston selling ruth because of the money. >>
Harry Frazee, who was the Red Sox owner at the time sold Babe Ruth because he wanted to turn his money toward producing Broadway shows. No, No Nanette comes immediately to mind. Frazee also sold many other all star players from the Red Sox, including some big time Yankees of the era, like pitcher Herb Pennock. In some ways, Frazee built the Yankees by giving them the basis the team they built around Ruth.
Harry Frazee was a no class who had no decency and no honor. If he had had any class, he would have sold the Red Sox team to someone who wanted to continue it as the proud franchise that it had been in the 'teens. As it was he sold off all the good players and left it as one of the poorest teams in baseball. The Red Sox finished last or near the bottom year after year though out the 1920s and '30s because the subsequent owners had no money. At one point the left field stands at Fenway Park burned and the owners left them that way for years. The team only came back when Tom Yawky bought it in the late 1930s.
Yawky ran the team like a country club while the Yankees ran theirs like a business. Yawky was also a racist who refused to have any African-American players on the team until he was pushed into it kicking and screaming. Believe it or not the Red Sox could have signed Willie Mays and Hank Aaron, but passed because of their racist policies. Could you have imaged an outfield of Williams, Mays and Aaron? That's what the Red Sox missed. Instead their first African-American player was Pumpsy Green.
The Yankee, BTW, were not much better. Their first Black player was Elston Howard who won the MVP, in the 1960s.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Again, Football is as big as it is becuase of BARS, PARTIES, GAMBLING, and SCHEDULE (1 game to look forward to a week). My god, revenue sharing has barley been around for 10 years. Football was WELL on its way to where it is WAY before revenue sharing. You guys who think that revenue sharing had ANYTHING to do with the heights football has reached could not be more wrong then arguing 2 + 2 = 5.
There's only one answer for the following questions:
1) Why did the NFL move back the afternoon games 15 minutes? 2) Why is the injury report mandatory by the NFL? 3) Why is there an NFL game on Monday night? 4) Why did the NFL create it's own network with indepth analysis 24/7?
Gambling
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>There's only one answer for the following questions:
1) Why did the NFL move back the afternoon games 15 minutes? 2) Why is the injury report mandatory by the NFL? 3) Why is there an NFL game on Monday night?
Gambling >>
I'd say the answer to #1 is to pad more commercials into the game.
<< <i>I'd say the answer to #1 is to pad more commercials into the game. >>
On the surface, you are right but there's more to the story...
Games were going on later and it was effecting bets. Your afternoon bets depend on how you did in the morning. With the morning games rolling into the afternoon ones, the house was getting less action. Give the morning games a nice 15 minute buffer, along with additional commercials, and action is the same, if not more, than the morning.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Football is big because it’s a hell of lot more fun to watch that baseball. When the baseball play-offs and World Series start, compared to the REGULAR season college and professional football games, post-season baseball generates about as much interest as the Stanley Cup. The fans in the cities that have teams in the play-offs are turned on, but the rest of the country says “HO-HUM.”
That’s a big difference from the way it was when I was a kid in the early 1960s. Back then the World Series was the BIG EVENT. I can’t tell you how trilled I was when Bill Mazaroski hit the 9th inning walk-off homer that won the 1960 Series for the Pirates over the Yankees. And I was a Phillies fan. Roger Maris’ 61st home run in 1961 was a huge deal. Even Hank Aarons' 715 homerun was fun!
Today baseball is a bit "HO-HUM, so what?" It’s a bunch of juiced up crooked players setting records that don’t mean crap because they didn’t get there honestly. It’s a New York team with more money that god that can buy any player they want, virtually at any time. In short baseball is one step ahead of the pro wrestling and roller derby. It’s not fixed, but the cards are stacked against most fans from most cities, and that’s why the post-season baseball is just a big bore.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Football is big because it’s a hell of lot more fun to watch that baseball. When the baseball play-offs and World Series start, compared to the REGULAR season college and professional football games, post-season baseball generates about as much interest as the Stanley Cup. The fans in the cities that have teams in the play-offs are turned on, but the rest of the country says “HO-HUM.”
That’s a big difference from the way it was when I was a kid in the early 1960s. Back then the World Series was the BIG EVENT. I can’t tell you how trilled I was when Bill Mazaroski hit the 9th inning walk-off homer that won the 1960 Series for the Pirates over the Yankees. And I was a Phillies fan. Roger Maris’ 61st home run in 1961 was a huge deal. Even Hank Aarons' 715 homerun was fun!
Today baseball is a bit "HO-HUM, so what?" It’s a bunch of juiced up crooked players setting records that don’t mean crap because they didn’t get there honestly. It’s a New York team with more money that god that can buy any player they want, virtually at any time. In short baseball is one step ahead of the pro wrestling and roller derby. It’s not fixed, but the cards are stacked against most fans from most cities, and that’s why the post-season baseball is just a big bore. >>
And in the 60's baseballs attendance wasnt 1/3 of what it is today. Too many of you folks like to reminisce about the " old days" where teams werent drawing anywhere near what they are today. Memories arent as clear as youd like to think, and nostalgia often takes precedent over fact.
Also, the NFL was nothing back then, and football in general was NOTHING until the advent of the super bowl. To compare baseball to other sports in the 60's in insane. Baseball had a virtual monopoly on sports until 30 years ago.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Hold on a minute...you mean no one bets on baseball?
If your entire premise that football is leaps and bounds more popular than baseball because of gambling, well, friends, there's nothing I can do for you.
Gambling may very well have a part of it, but the marketing of the game, the fact that most if not all teams have the same playing field money-wise to work with that gives their fans hope each year, and the overall health of the NFL leads one to believe that gambling is but a fraction of the reason why.
<< <i>Ax, no teams are being run out of baseball. Your drama is pathetic. >>
Really? Wasn't Selig's plan a couple years ago to eliminate from 2-4 teams? Or was I dreaming that? Wasn't the montreal franchise forced to close because of lackluster revenues?
Look, I love baseball..always have, always will. But anyone NOT a yankee fan can see that for the long term health of the game, a cap and REAL revenue sharing must be implemented for this game to survive - period. Any other argument is pure folly.
Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario.
<<Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario.>>
<< <i><<Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario.>>
and the problem is >>
No problem, but it shows their inability to see the reality of the situation that involves MLB falling behind basketball and becoming a niche sport that only fans in big market cities pay any attention to.
<< <i>Hold on a minute...you mean no one bets on baseball?
If your entire premise that football is leaps and bounds more popular than baseball because of gambling, well, friends, there's nothing I can do for you.
Gambling may very well have a part of it, but the marketing of the game, the fact that most if not all teams have the same playing field money-wise to work with that gives their fans hope each year, and the overall health of the NFL leads one to believe that gambling is but a fraction of the reason why.
<< <i>Ax, no teams are being run out of baseball. Your drama is pathetic. >>
Really? Wasn't Selig's plan a couple years ago to eliminate from 2-4 teams? Or was I dreaming that? Wasn't the montreal franchise forced to close because of lackluster revenues?
Look, I love baseball..always have, always will. But anyone NOT a yankee fan can see that for the long term health of the game, a cap and REAL revenue sharing must be implemented for this game to survive - period. Any other argument is pure folly.
Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario. >>
LOL, you honestly believe baseball is falling behind basketball ?? You are dumber than I thought, which is TOUGH.
And did Seligs plan go through ? Montreal moved, so what ? WAAAAAAY more teams in football relocate than baseball, so you have LOST that argument right there BIG TIME.
If a very small, select few teams cant compete and have to move, so be it, thats sports, and that is life. Nobody is handed a free pass in life, so why should the world of sports be any different ?
Im not going any further, I think you have been proven wrong enough to stop right where I am.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>LOL, you honestly believe baseball is falling behind basketball ?? You are dumber than I thought, which is TOUGH. >>
It is well on its way...when you factor in how the NBA has marketed lebron, wade, and carmello, and numerous veteran superstars like shaq, kobe...when a player like Nash can win back to back MVPs, you have a league that's well on its way to pushing baseball out of the way.
<< <i>And did Seligs plan go through ? Montreal moved, so what ? WAAAAAAY more teams in football relocate than baseball, so you have LOST that argument right there BIG TIME. >>
No, the Montreal franchise didn't 'move', it had to be RESCUED by MLB. Please tell me who owns the Nationals?
<< <i>If a very small, select few teams cant compete and have to move, so be it, thats sports, and that is life. Nobody is handed a free pass in life, so why should the world of sports be any different ?
Im not going any further, I think you have been proven wrong enough to stop right where I am. >>
The only thing you've proven is that you're as happy as a pig in stink about the current set up - and I don't blame you. The yankees benefit from being in the biggest media market in the world. They don't 'want' to win any more than any other team, they simply have far more resources in which do it.
The plain and simple truth that you yankee fans fail to even acknowledge is what upsets baseball fans. You sit there and make outrageous claims about the yankees 'wanting it' more when that's simply not the case.
No, I have proven that you dont have a clue. The moment you claimed the NBA is surpassing baseball was more proof than anything I could possibly ever offer. I thank you for making it easy on me.
Oh, and BTW, not just for you, but everyone else who is blabbing on about the great salary cap in football.....the cap is just another excuse to make football more appealing to the gambling world.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>And in the 60's baseballs attendance wasnt 1/3 of what it is today. >>
Well to be fair the population of the U.S. was less than half what it is today. So that could have an affect upon total attendance.
But even more interesting is the fact that your beloved New York City teams dominated baseball during the 1950s. From 1950 to 1959 the Yankees won the American League pennant eight out of ten times. And on six of those occasions the Yankees won the World Series as well. That kind of takes interest out of it for everyone else, doesn’t it? And over on the National League side, the New York Giants or the Brooklyn Dodgers won the pennant six out of eight times. And the Dodgers and Giants each won a World Series giving New York teams eight of ten World Championships for the decade.
Now before you cry, “foul” at the fact that I cut the National League number from ten to eight, I would remind you that the Dodgers and Giants moved to the West Coast starting in 1958. And, for the record, the Dodgers won it all in 1959 giving the extended New York City family nine out of ten World Series wins for the decade.
So therefore your argument that hegemony in baseball has no adverse affects has some serious problems. Looking at that, I think I might have thought about staying home from the ballpark given those unrelenting odds.
In the words former Yankee manager, Casey Stengel, “You can look it up.” There are no lies here, baby, just the stats.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>And in the 60's baseballs attendance wasnt 1/3 of what it is today. >>
Well to be fair the population of the U.S. was less than half what it is today. So that could have an affect upon total attendance.
But even more interesting is the fact that your beloved New York City teams dominated baseball during the 1950s. From 1950 to 1959 the Yankees won the American League pennant eight out of ten times. And on six of those occasions the Yankees won the World Series as well. That kind of takes interest out of it for everyone else, doesn’t it? And over on the National League side, the New York Giants or the Brooklyn Dodgers won the pennant six out of eight times. And the Dodgers and Giants each won a World Series giving New York teams eight of ten World Championships for the decade.
Now before you cry, “foul” at the fact that I cut the National League number from ten to eight, I would remind you that the Dodgers and Giants moved to the West Coast starting in 1958. And, for the record, the Dodgers won it all in 1959 giving the extended New York City family nine out of ten World Series wins for the decade.
So therefore your argument that hegemony in baseball has no adverse affects has some serious problems. Looking at that, I think I might have thought about staying home from the ballpark given those unrelenting odds.
In the words former Yankee manager, Casey Stengel, “You can look it up.” There are no lies here, baby, just the stats. >>
And what does anything you just said have to do with what was said earlier, or what I came back with ? Were you not talking about the 60's ? Baseballs attendance in the 60's or ANY other decade is not close to what it is today. I cant for the life of me see what stating what myself and everyone on here knows ( who the pennant winning teams of the 50's were ) has to do with this.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Football is more exciting to watch and is a more competitive league. Period. That's why it's the most popular sport in America. Are you a bookie, bri? The undue emphasis you keep putting on gambling and pools for being one of the main reasons that football is so popular is baffling to me. Except for the Super Bowl, there are far fewer people gambling on football than not.
As for baseball attendance, most season seats these days are owned by corporations and private companies which misleadingly inflates the "paid" attendance at each game. The TV numbers tell the true story, and baseball ratings have dropped steadily over the last 20 years while football ratings have skyrocketed. Even the World Series ratings have been disappointing in recent years.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Even the World Series ratings have been disappointing in recent years. >>
Exactly. Wasn't it just last year that network execs were crying about poor WS ratings? They were upset about the fact that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and Mets were not in the WS - partly because there simply aren't as many fans of teams in the rest of the league as there used to be.
<< <i> Exactly. Wasn't it just last year that network execs were crying about poor WS ratings? They were upset about the fact that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and Mets were not in the WS - partly because there simply aren't as many fans of teams in the rest of the league as there used to be. >>
WRONG ... do your homework man. World Series TV ratings even at their BEST were not to impressive. Also, that has alot more to do with NO MORE DAY GAMES then it does this stupid FOLLY about there not being fans around.
You guys CONTINUE to ignore attendance records being set all over baseball ......... amazing
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
Then why is the Super Bowl the biggest day not only in legal sports books but also with illegal bookies? >>
Stown, I'll answer your question by saying - thanks for proving my point perfectly.
Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest day for legal and illegal sports books, because everyone watches the game - everyone! Men, women, children, sports fans, non sports fans, people who could care less about football but want to be part of the "holiday", etc. And, because so many people are watching it, it stands to reason that there is going to be a lot more betting activity on the game. So many people care about the outcome of the Super Bowl that they want to get in on the action, big and small. Does this ever happen with the World Series? Is the World Series anywhere near as popular anymore as the Super Bowl? Football, once again, has taken over the American sports landscape - and pushed baseball to the back.
<< <i> Exactly. Wasn't it just last year that network execs were crying about poor WS ratings? They were upset about the fact that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and Mets were not in the WS - partly because there simply aren't as many fans of teams in the rest of the league as there used to be. >>
WRONG ... do your homework man. World Series TV ratings even at their BEST were not to impressive. Also, that has alot more to do with NO MORE DAY GAMES then it does this stupid FOLLY about there not being fans around.
You guys CONTINUE to ignore attendance records being set all over baseball ......... amazing >>
So, you mean to tell me that if the WS was played during the day, that all of a sudden middle America - who in all probability watched their team fall out of playoff contention in June - would care about a Yankees vs. whomever series? I'd bet most people work during the day anyway, and unless you have a unique job where you can watch tevevision while you work, you probably can't watch the WS during the day. Which is why the games are played at night.
<< <i> Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest day for legal and illegal sports books, because everyone watches the game - everyone! Men, women, children, sports fans, non sports fans, people who could care less about football but want to be part of the "holiday", etc. . >>
And why is that Jerry? Because Americans LOVE to eat their faces off, drink their a$$e$ off, and gamble money away. THAT is why. I can't believe there are so many people around here who INSIST on comparing ratings for a SERIES that could take 7 games against a ONE (1) game all for nothing contest. Dense I tell ya, DENSE !!!!!!!!!1
<< <i> So, you mean to tell me that if the WS was played during the day, that all of a sudden middle America - who in all probability watched their team fall out of playoff contention in June - would care about a Yankees vs. whomever series? I'd bet most people work during the day anyway, and unless you have a unique job where you can watch tevevision while you work, you probably can't watch the WS during the day. Which is why the games are played at night. >>
Middle America? WHAAAAT are you talking about. You are STILL IGNORING the very FACT that baseball has more people sitting in ballparks then they EVER have ALL OVER baseball with a couple of obvious exceptions. Unreal
Jerry, is it that LOST on you that football is TAYLOR made for the tube? How in the HELL can you compare baseball TV ratings which is played EVERY DAY to a game that is played ONCE A WEEK? This is just ridiculous anymore. Will one of you clowns PLEASE stop ignoring the FACT that baseball is setting attendance RECORDS.
<< <i> Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest day for legal and illegal sports books, because everyone watches the game - everyone! Men, women, children, sports fans, non sports fans, people who could care less about football but want to be part of the "holiday", etc. . >>
And why is that Jerry? Because Americans LOVE to eat their faces off, drink their a$$e$ off, and gamble money away. THAT is why. I can't believe there are so many people around here who INSIST on comparing ratings for a SERIES that could take 7 games against a ONE (1) game all for nothing contest. Dense I tell ya, DENSE !!!!!!!!!1 >>
But then, Dan - wouldn't Americans rather do all those things 7 times versus only 1? If baseball were on that level, maybe they would. But they don't, because when the WS is on, almost no one cares. And, for that - you can thank the system that currently exists that you love so much.
<< <i> But then, Dan - wouldn't Americans rather do all those things 7 times versus only 1? If baseball were on that level, maybe they would. But they don't, because when the WS is on, almost no one cares. And, for that - you can thank the system that currently exists that you love so much. >>
Jerry, AGAIN you are TOTALY IGNORING the FACT that baseball is setting ATTENDANCE RECORDS ...... and NO these people can't party like it is New Years 7 days in a row! Did you think that one out before ya typed it?
In another thread, I asked for proof that baseball is in fact setting attendance records. Not that I don't believe you, Dan - but do you have some stats to back that assertion up?
There are more teams in 2006 than ever before and as I stated in a previous post, most season tickets are consigned to independent businesses and corporations which inaccurately inflates the "paid" attendance at each game. The average fan can't even ORDER Yankee box seats anymore because they're all bought up by corporations beforehand. I know you Yankee fans hate to be wrong but many fans disagree with you soft, and to think your opinion is the only valid one is rather pompous, I'd say, but then again, most Yankee fans are pompous and arrogant to begin with.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Grote, where the hell did I say my opinion was the only valid one? where? You are as pompous as those you point fingers at. All you do is comment on how everybody else acts. Then you use the TIRED OLD rant about Yankee fans
There have been the same number of teams as there are this year since 1998. Attendance keeps rising ....
The average fan can't buy Knicks tickets, Ranger tickets, Giants tickets ..... please tell me what your point is?
This thread has gotten way out of hand. Back and forth with the same crapola on all our parts.
In the end, everyone has their opinions and nobody will waver from them. The one thing that makes me pi$$ed off though is once again this generalization by non yankee fans feeling the need to describe Yankee fans as pompous, arrogant, and numerous other names. IS that all some of you fellas can come up with when all is said and done ? Its pathetic, because in the end, the only " fans " who bash other teams, players, and fans are non yankee fans. Day in and day out Yankee fans on these boards and others give credit to other teams, enter discussions with positive feedback, comments, and support for other teams. We are not chiming in on every other teams discussion taking pot shots at their players ( with of course some Red Sox exceptions, which is just how Sox/yankee fans do things) or fans.
Next time some of you describe us Yankee fans with any number of your various slurs take a look in the mirror and think about it first.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
I was being facetious when I made my comment about Yankee fans, that's why I used the smiley face. But you're so wound up about attendance figures and blowing up anyone else's opinions on this topic that you probably failed to notice that. Go back to my original post--I hold nothing against the yankees for taking advantage of the system as it currently exists, just that a large segment of the population in America has become alienated by baseball because of the lack of competitiveness. If you can't see or accept that, I can't help you there.
Also, you can't compare getting Knicks tickets to Yankee tickets. Yankee Stadium holds three times as many fans as MSG, and basketball seats are also bought out by corporations, too. My point here is that attendance figures are artificially inflated because of that fact. To deny this is to deny the facts. And there are only 8 home games for the Giants each year so those tickets are certainly going to be hard to come by.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> . But you're so wound up about attendance figures and blowing up anyone else's opinions on this topic that you probably failed to notice that.
If you can't see or accept that, I can't help you there. >>
There you go again telling other people about what YOU think is wrong with them! A tad bit pompous no? And you say "If you can't see or accept that, I can't help you" is not pompous? Grote, you have just acted in a way that you accused ME off earlier by refusing to see or accept ANYTHING other than your own view.
<< <i>Also, you can't compare getting Knicks tickets to Yankee tickets.
>>
Interesting, but you CAN compare Football TV ratings against Baseball? When football is played once a week as compared to everyday?
Edit: The country centers around NY baseball. Know-it-all Yankee fans good. All other fans bad.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Grote, you have just acted in a way that you accused ME off earlier by refusing to see or accept ANYTHING other than your own view.
soft,
no offense, but that's laughable coming from you who downright taunts others who dare to disagree with your "Al-Yankzeera" (with apologies to Bob Raissman, Daily News columnist) pontifications. I merely offered an opinion on why I think baseball has suffered over the years while football has thrived (and it's not due to gambling, drinking, etc.) but you can believe what you want to believe, that's what makes this country great, though I'd bet that other than you and bri and the other Yankee fans on here, most people would agree at least to some extent with my comments.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> no offense, but that's laughable coming from you who downright taunts others who dare to disagree with your "Al-Yankzeera" (with apologies to Bob Raissman, Daily News columnist) pontifications. . >>
First of all, if you even bothered to go back and read your comments .... you would see that you try and ram your "opinions"down our throats as much as anybody you accuse of doing. Then when you are disagreed with you have a knack for being a completely pompous by saying " If you can't see or accept that then there is nothing I can do"
Save me the pity party for yourself.
Secondly, "AlYankxeera" huh? Just because somebody DARES to not agree with your opinions? You are flying off the handle with these remarks when I "offer opinions" that are different from the ones barfed out by the majority Yankee haters on this forum.
Didn't you say you were DONE? Ha! I can't wait for you to reply with another self indulged rant that canonizes yourself as Joey do gooder poster.
<< <i>Grote, you have just acted in a way that you accused ME off earlier by refusing to see or accept ANYTHING other than your own view.
soft,
no offense, but that's laughable coming from you who downright taunts others who dare to disagree with your "Al-Yankzeera" (with apologies to Bob Raissman, Daily News columnist) pontifications. I merely offered an opinion on why I think baseball has suffered over the years while football has thrived (and it's not due to gambling, drinking, etc.) but you can believe what you want to believe, that's what makes this country great, though I'd bet that other than you and bri and the other Yankee fans on here, most people would agree at least to some extent with my comments. >>
And sports sociologists from Universities across America would to " some extent " agree with Dan and I regarding gambling, drinking, and violence in football.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>And sports sociologists from Universities across America would to " some extent " agree with Dan and I regarding gambling, drinking, and violence in football. >>
Really? "Sports sociologists" now?
Boy, you guys at Al-Yankzeera are getting more creative by the day.
So, I Google sports sociologists, and I get this acronym - BIRG: Basking in Reflected Glory. People climb on a team's bandwagon because they believe that associating with a winner makes them a winner. When fans BIRG, they align themselves with a team that has success, hoping that the connection will improve the way they're viewed by others. They fly their colors to make sure that others know that they're on the winning side. They scream, "We're No. 1."
<< <i>And sports sociologists from Universities across America would to " some extent " agree with Dan and I regarding gambling, drinking, and violence in football. >>
Really? "Sports sociologists" now?
Boy, you guys at Al-Yankzeera are getting more creative by the day.
So, I Google sports sociologists, and I get this acronym - BIRG: Basking in Reflected Glory. People climb on a team's bandwagon because they believe that associating with a winner makes them a winner. When fans BIRG, they align themselves with a team that has success, hoping that the connection will improve the way they're viewed by others. They fly their colors to make sure that others know that they're on the winning side. They scream, "We're No. 1."
Sounds like a Yankee fan to me. >>
So I see you not only are a hater, but dont quite know how to use google huh ?
You truly are a moron sometimes, since the scope of why it was even mentioned had ZERO to do with the Yankees. Perhaps try reading sometime if you can hack it.
Most major universities in America offer courses in the Sociology of sport. Try working that google again and get back to me when you have a clue.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Actually, I was being sarcastic more than anything else. I just thought resorting to sports sociologists (which may or may not even be true)to further the crazy concept that gambling/drinking was largely responsible for the popularity of football was amusing. Of course what I posted has nothing to do with that - or anything. Lighten up, man - Al-Yankzeera is getting to you.
Comments
Ax, baseball is doing just fine.
Ax, plenty of owners have Steinbrenners money.
Ax, no teams are being run out of baseball. Your drama is pathetic.
Ax, if fans in other cities showed up for games when their team was in the race maybe they could keep more players.
Ax, If there were no Yankees other teams would draw in MILLIONS less per year. Every time the Yankees come to town attendence doubles and triples in most venues. Not to mention the luxury tax handouts they have to give.
Ax, revenue sharing is communism.
Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly.
Ax, Baseball popularity and attendence is at an all time high, depsite recent controversies, and definately despite what you will have others believe.
Ax, Steinbrenner reaches into his OWN pocket year after year and pulls money out, while other owner reach into their pockets only to stuff and hide money further down in them.
Ax, everything you have previously mentioned is based purely on jealousy and does not hold any basis in fact.
Ax, money is not the key to winning. Please read thread in its entirety to discover reasons why.
Ax, did I mention baseball is doing just fine ?
Ax, when was the last time you went and supported the Mariners by going to a game ?
Ax, dont forget that sig line bet you made with Dan.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
Then why is the Super Bowl the biggest day not only in legal sports books but also with illegal bookies?
<< <i>
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
I cannot disagree more. This notion that the cap has been what made football is just not true. It is a convenient way to argue why baseball should have a cap, and nothing more.
Football is an extention of our society, more aggressive & more violent. Naturally it has gained popularity due to this. One day a week for games has made it an event, a place to gather, drink, etc and watch the game....BUT....
To ignore the extent gambling plays into football is ignoring the facts and the truth.
In the end, football is a watered down shell of its former self. Take away every office pool, fantasy league, betting ticket, online gambling site, etc and see where football would be. My friends, dont be fooled, and dont believe this nonsense over the salary cap. GAMBLING over anything else runs football.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>My friends, dont be fooled, and dont believe this nonsense over the salary cap. GAMBLING over anything else runs football. >>
The funny thing is that football (college and NFL) is always talking about cracking down on gambling even as they realize privately that gambling has a *huge* impact on public interest in football.
In public, they have to look anti-gambling, but under the sheets they KNOW gambling is giving their ratings and revenues a huge boost. Sort of like government anti-smoking campaigns and cigarette taxes, I guess.
<< <i>
Superbly articulated and thought out response.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>I disagree teams have made and lost money since the begining of the game look at boston selling ruth because of the money. >>
Harry Frazee, who was the Red Sox owner at the time sold Babe Ruth because he wanted to turn his money toward producing Broadway shows. No, No Nanette comes immediately to mind. Frazee also sold many other all star players from the Red Sox, including some big time Yankees of the era, like pitcher Herb Pennock. In some ways, Frazee built the Yankees by giving them the basis the team they built around Ruth.
Harry Frazee was a no class
Yawky ran the team like a country club while the Yankees ran theirs like a business. Yawky was also a racist who refused to have any African-American players on the team until he was pushed into it kicking and screaming. Believe it or not the Red Sox could have signed Willie Mays and Hank Aaron, but passed because of their racist policies. Could you have imaged an outfield of Williams, Mays and Aaron? That's what the Red Sox missed. Instead their first African-American player was Pumpsy Green.
The Yankee, BTW, were not much better. Their first Black player was Elston Howard who won the MVP, in the 1960s.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
And some people bet on ping pong too, but ya know, its not as big as football
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
1) Why did the NFL move back the afternoon games 15 minutes?
2) Why is the injury report mandatory by the NFL?
3) Why is there an NFL game on Monday night?
4) Why did the NFL create it's own network with indepth analysis 24/7?
Gambling
<< <i>There's only one answer for the following questions:
1) Why did the NFL move back the afternoon games 15 minutes?
2) Why is the injury report mandatory by the NFL?
3) Why is there an NFL game on Monday night?
Gambling >>
I'd say the answer to #1 is to pad more commercials into the game.
<< <i>I'd say the answer to #1 is to pad more commercials into the game. >>
On the surface, you are right but there's more to the story...
Games were going on later and it was effecting bets. Your afternoon bets depend on how you did in the morning. With the morning games rolling into the afternoon ones, the house was getting less action. Give the morning games a nice 15 minute buffer, along with additional commercials, and action is the same, if not more, than the morning.
That’s a big difference from the way it was when I was a kid in the early 1960s. Back then the World Series was the BIG EVENT. I can’t tell you how trilled I was when Bill Mazaroski hit the 9th inning walk-off homer that won the 1960 Series for the Pirates over the Yankees. And I was a Phillies fan. Roger Maris’ 61st home run in 1961 was a huge deal. Even Hank Aarons' 715 homerun was fun!
Today baseball is a bit "HO-HUM, so what?" It’s a bunch of juiced up crooked players setting records that don’t mean crap because they didn’t get there honestly. It’s a New York team with more money that god that can buy any player they want, virtually at any time. In short baseball is one step ahead of the pro wrestling and roller derby. It’s not fixed, but the cards are stacked against most fans from most cities, and that’s why the post-season baseball is just a big bore.
<< <i>Football is big because it’s a hell of lot more fun to watch that baseball. When the baseball play-offs and World Series start, compared to the REGULAR season college and professional football games, post-season baseball generates about as much interest as the Stanley Cup. The fans in the cities that have teams in the play-offs are turned on, but the rest of the country says “HO-HUM.”
That’s a big difference from the way it was when I was a kid in the early 1960s. Back then the World Series was the BIG EVENT. I can’t tell you how trilled I was when Bill Mazaroski hit the 9th inning walk-off homer that won the 1960 Series for the Pirates over the Yankees. And I was a Phillies fan. Roger Maris’ 61st home run in 1961 was a huge deal. Even Hank Aarons' 715 homerun was fun!
Today baseball is a bit "HO-HUM, so what?" It’s a bunch of juiced up crooked players setting records that don’t mean crap because they didn’t get there honestly. It’s a New York team with more money that god that can buy any player they want, virtually at any time. In short baseball is one step ahead of the pro wrestling and roller derby. It’s not fixed, but the cards are stacked against most fans from most cities, and that’s why the post-season baseball is just a big bore. >>
And in the 60's baseballs attendance wasnt 1/3 of what it is today. Too many of you folks like to reminisce about the " old days" where teams werent drawing anywhere near what they are today. Memories arent as clear as youd like to think, and nostalgia often takes precedent over fact.
Also, the NFL was nothing back then, and football in general was NOTHING until the advent of the super bowl. To compare baseball to other sports in the 60's in insane. Baseball had a virtual monopoly on sports until 30 years ago.
-- Yogi Berra
If your entire premise that football is leaps and bounds more popular than baseball because of gambling, well, friends, there's nothing I can do for you.
Gambling may very well have a part of it, but the marketing of the game, the fact that most if not all teams have the same playing field money-wise to work with that gives their fans hope each year, and the overall health of the NFL leads one to believe that gambling is but a fraction of the reason why.
<< <i>Ax, no teams are being run out of baseball. Your drama is pathetic. >>
Really? Wasn't Selig's plan a couple years ago to eliminate from 2-4 teams? Or was I dreaming that? Wasn't the montreal franchise forced to close because of lackluster revenues?
Look, I love baseball..always have, always will. But anyone NOT a yankee fan can see that for the long term health of the game, a cap and REAL revenue sharing must be implemented for this game to survive - period. Any other argument is pure folly.
Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario.
and the problem is
<< <i><<Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario.>>
and the problem is >>
No problem, but it shows their inability to see the reality of the situation that involves MLB falling behind basketball and becoming a niche sport that only fans in big market cities pay any attention to.
<< <i>Hold on a minute...you mean no one bets on baseball?
If your entire premise that football is leaps and bounds more popular than baseball because of gambling, well, friends, there's nothing I can do for you.
Gambling may very well have a part of it, but the marketing of the game, the fact that most if not all teams have the same playing field money-wise to work with that gives their fans hope each year, and the overall health of the NFL leads one to believe that gambling is but a fraction of the reason why.
<< <i>Ax, no teams are being run out of baseball. Your drama is pathetic. >>
Really? Wasn't Selig's plan a couple years ago to eliminate from 2-4 teams? Or was I dreaming that? Wasn't the montreal franchise forced to close because of lackluster revenues?
Look, I love baseball..always have, always will. But anyone NOT a yankee fan can see that for the long term health of the game, a cap and REAL revenue sharing must be implemented for this game to survive - period. Any other argument is pure folly.
Isn't it funny that those who are parading the idea that 'baseball is fine' are yankee fans? Of COURSE it appears to be fine, when your team has an advantage that no other team can touch. Of COURSE it appears to be fine when your team is contending for a championship every year based on financial advantages. Of COURSE you're going to be opposed to any change in that scenario. >>
LOL, you honestly believe baseball is falling behind basketball ?? You are dumber than I thought, which is TOUGH.
And did Seligs plan go through ? Montreal moved, so what ? WAAAAAAY more teams in football relocate than baseball, so you have LOST that argument right there BIG TIME.
If a very small, select few teams cant compete and have to move, so be it, thats sports, and that is life. Nobody is handed a free pass in life, so why should the world of sports be any different ?
Im not going any further, I think you have been proven wrong enough to stop right where I am.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>LOL, you honestly believe baseball is falling behind basketball ?? You are dumber than I thought, which is TOUGH.
>>
It is well on its way...when you factor in how the NBA has marketed lebron, wade, and carmello, and numerous veteran superstars like shaq, kobe...when a player like Nash can win back to back MVPs, you have a league that's well on its way to pushing baseball out of the way.
<< <i>And did Seligs plan go through ? Montreal moved, so what ? WAAAAAAY more teams in football relocate than baseball, so you have LOST that argument right there BIG TIME. >>
No, the Montreal franchise didn't 'move', it had to be RESCUED by MLB. Please tell me who owns the Nationals?
<< <i>If a very small, select few teams cant compete and have to move, so be it, thats sports, and that is life. Nobody is handed a free pass in life, so why should the world of sports be any different ?
Im not going any further, I think you have been proven wrong enough to stop right where I am. >>
The only thing you've proven is that you're as happy as a pig in stink about the current set up - and I don't blame you. The yankees benefit from being in the biggest media market in the world. They don't 'want' to win any more than any other team, they simply have far more resources in which do it.
The plain and simple truth that you yankee fans fail to even acknowledge is what upsets baseball fans. You sit there and make outrageous claims about the yankees 'wanting it' more when that's simply not the case.
Oh, and BTW, not just for you, but everyone else who is blabbing on about the great salary cap in football.....the cap is just another excuse to make football more appealing to the gambling world.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>And in the 60's baseballs attendance wasnt 1/3 of what it is today. >>
Well to be fair the population of the U.S. was less than half what it is today. So that could have an affect upon total attendance.
But even more interesting is the fact that your beloved New York City teams dominated baseball during the 1950s. From 1950 to 1959 the Yankees won the American League pennant eight out of ten times. And on six of those occasions the Yankees won the World Series as well. That kind of takes interest out of it for everyone else, doesn’t it? And over on the National League side, the New York Giants or the Brooklyn Dodgers won the pennant six out of eight times. And the Dodgers and Giants each won a World Series giving New York teams eight of ten World Championships for the decade.
Now before you cry, “foul” at the fact that I cut the National League number from ten to eight, I would remind you that the Dodgers and Giants moved to the West Coast starting in 1958. And, for the record, the Dodgers won it all in 1959 giving the extended New York City family nine out of ten World Series wins for the decade.
So therefore your argument that hegemony in baseball has no adverse affects has some serious problems. Looking at that, I think I might have thought about staying home from the ballpark given those unrelenting odds.
In the words former Yankee manager, Casey Stengel, “You can look it up.” There are no lies here, baby, just the stats.
<< <i>
<< <i>And in the 60's baseballs attendance wasnt 1/3 of what it is today. >>
Well to be fair the population of the U.S. was less than half what it is today. So that could have an affect upon total attendance.
But even more interesting is the fact that your beloved New York City teams dominated baseball during the 1950s. From 1950 to 1959 the Yankees won the American League pennant eight out of ten times. And on six of those occasions the Yankees won the World Series as well. That kind of takes interest out of it for everyone else, doesn’t it? And over on the National League side, the New York Giants or the Brooklyn Dodgers won the pennant six out of eight times. And the Dodgers and Giants each won a World Series giving New York teams eight of ten World Championships for the decade.
Now before you cry, “foul” at the fact that I cut the National League number from ten to eight, I would remind you that the Dodgers and Giants moved to the West Coast starting in 1958. And, for the record, the Dodgers won it all in 1959 giving the extended New York City family nine out of ten World Series wins for the decade.
So therefore your argument that hegemony in baseball has no adverse affects has some serious problems. Looking at that, I think I might have thought about staying home from the ballpark given those unrelenting odds.
In the words former Yankee manager, Casey Stengel, “You can look it up.” There are no lies here, baby, just the stats.
And what does anything you just said have to do with what was said earlier, or what I came back with ? Were you not talking about the 60's ? Baseballs attendance in the 60's or ANY other decade is not close to what it is today. I cant for the life of me see what stating what myself and everyone on here knows ( who the pennant winning teams of the 50's were ) has to do with this.
-- Yogi Berra
As for baseball attendance, most season seats these days are owned by corporations and private companies which misleadingly inflates the "paid" attendance at each game. The TV numbers tell the true story, and baseball ratings have dropped steadily over the last 20 years while football ratings have skyrocketed. Even the World Series ratings have been disappointing in recent years.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Even the World Series ratings have been disappointing in recent years. >>
Exactly. Wasn't it just last year that network execs were crying about poor WS ratings? They were upset about the fact that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and Mets were not in the WS - partly because there simply aren't as many fans of teams in the rest of the league as there used to be.
<< <i>
Exactly. Wasn't it just last year that network execs were crying about poor WS ratings? They were upset about the fact that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and Mets were not in the WS - partly because there simply aren't as many fans of teams in the rest of the league as there used to be. >>
WRONG ... do your homework man. World Series TV ratings even at their BEST were not to impressive. Also, that has alot more to do with NO MORE DAY GAMES then it does this stupid FOLLY about there not being fans around.
You guys CONTINUE to ignore attendance records being set all over baseball ......... amazing
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Ax, football is so popular because of gambling and other reasons mentioned earlier. Popularity based on a cap is pure folly. >>
I don't have time to debate all of those points, so I'll take this one.
Football is popular because every team and their fanbase believes their team has a realistic chance to contend for a Super Bowl, and win. Even the "worst" teams have hope because the league is designed to make it so. There are still good teams and bad teams, but they get that way from making smart personnel decisions and coaching, not from stockpiling players without regard to cost or payroll. Gambling exists on baseball, too - granted it's a bigger part of football, but hardly the reason football has become as big as it is. >>
Then why is the Super Bowl the biggest day not only in legal sports books but also with illegal bookies? >>
Stown, I'll answer your question by saying - thanks for proving my point perfectly.
Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest day for legal and illegal sports books, because everyone watches the game - everyone! Men, women, children, sports fans, non sports fans, people who could care less about football but want to be part of the "holiday", etc. And, because so many people are watching it, it stands to reason that there is going to be a lot more betting activity on the game. So many people care about the outcome of the Super Bowl that they want to get in on the action, big and small. Does this ever happen with the World Series? Is the World Series anywhere near as popular anymore as the Super Bowl? Football, once again, has taken over the American sports landscape - and pushed baseball to the back.
<< <i>
<< <i>
Exactly. Wasn't it just last year that network execs were crying about poor WS ratings? They were upset about the fact that the Yankees, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox and Mets were not in the WS - partly because there simply aren't as many fans of teams in the rest of the league as there used to be. >>
WRONG ... do your homework man. World Series TV ratings even at their BEST were not to impressive. Also, that has alot more to do with NO MORE DAY GAMES then it does this stupid FOLLY about there not being fans around.
You guys CONTINUE to ignore attendance records being set all over baseball ......... amazing >>
So, you mean to tell me that if the WS was played during the day, that all of a sudden middle America - who in all probability watched their team fall out of playoff contention in June - would care about a Yankees vs. whomever series? I'd bet most people work during the day anyway, and unless you have a unique job where you can watch tevevision while you work, you probably can't watch the WS during the day. Which is why the games are played at night.
<< <i> Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest day for legal and illegal sports books, because everyone watches the game - everyone! Men, women, children, sports fans, non sports fans, people who could care less about football but want to be part of the "holiday", etc. . >>
And why is that Jerry? Because Americans LOVE to eat their faces off, drink their a$$e$ off, and gamble money away. THAT is why. I can't believe there are so many people around here who INSIST on comparing ratings for a SERIES that could take 7 games against a ONE (1) game all for nothing contest. Dense I tell ya, DENSE !!!!!!!!!1
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
So, you mean to tell me that if the WS was played during the day, that all of a sudden middle America - who in all probability watched their team fall out of playoff contention in June - would care about a Yankees vs. whomever series? I'd bet most people work during the day anyway, and unless you have a unique job where you can watch tevevision while you work, you probably can't watch the WS during the day. Which is why the games are played at night. >>
Middle America? WHAAAAT are you talking about. You are STILL IGNORING the very FACT that baseball has more people sitting in ballparks then they EVER have ALL OVER baseball with a couple of obvious exceptions. Unreal
Jerry, is it that LOST on you that football is TAYLOR made for the tube? How in the HELL can you compare baseball TV ratings which is played EVERY DAY to a game that is played ONCE A WEEK? This is just ridiculous anymore. Will one of you clowns PLEASE stop ignoring the FACT that baseball is setting attendance RECORDS.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>
<< <i> Super Bowl Sunday is the biggest day for legal and illegal sports books, because everyone watches the game - everyone! Men, women, children, sports fans, non sports fans, people who could care less about football but want to be part of the "holiday", etc. . >>
And why is that Jerry? Because Americans LOVE to eat their faces off, drink their a$$e$ off, and gamble money away. THAT is why. I can't believe there are so many people around here who INSIST on comparing ratings for a SERIES that could take 7 games against a ONE (1) game all for nothing contest. Dense I tell ya, DENSE !!!!!!!!!1 >>
But then, Dan - wouldn't Americans rather do all those things 7 times versus only 1? If baseball were on that level, maybe they would. But they don't, because when the WS is on, almost no one cares. And, for that - you can thank the system that currently exists that you love so much.
<< <i> But then, Dan - wouldn't Americans rather do all those things 7 times versus only 1? If baseball were on that level, maybe they would. But they don't, because when the WS is on, almost no one cares. And, for that - you can thank the system that currently exists that you love so much. >>
Jerry, AGAIN you are TOTALY IGNORING the FACT that baseball is setting ATTENDANCE RECORDS ...... and NO these people can't party like it is New Years 7 days in a row! Did you think that one out before ya typed it?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
1945 10,841,123
1946 18,523,289
1947 19,874,539
1948 20,920,842
1949 20,215,365
1950 17,462,977
1951 16,126,676
1952 14,633,044
1953 14,383,797
1954 15,935,883
1955 16,617,383
1956 16,543,250
1957 17,015,819
1958 17,460,630
1959 19,143,979
1960 19,911,489
1961 18,894,518
1962 21,375,215
1963 20,477,074
1964 21,280,341
1965 22,441,900
1966 25,182,209
1967 24,308,353
1968 23,102,745
1969 27,229,666
1970 28,747,333
1971 29,193,417
1972 26,968,268
1973 30,108,926
1974 30,025,608
1975 29,789,913
1976 31,318,331
1977 38,709,779
1978 40,636,886
1979 43,550,398
1980 43,014,136
1981 26,544,376
1982 44,587,874
1983 45,540,338
1984 44,742,863
1985 46,824,379
1986 47,506,203
1987 52,011,506
1988 52,998,904
1989 55,173,096
1990 54,823,768
1991 56,813,760
1992 55,870,466
1993 70,257,938
1994 50,010,016
1995 50,469,236
1996 60,097,381
1997 63,168,689
1998 70,601,147
1999 70,139,380
2000 71,358,907
2001 72,581,101
2002 67,944,389
2003 67,630,052
2004 72,968,953
2005 74,915,268
2004 set a record, 2005 eclipsed it, 2006 is on pace to set another ..... spin away
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There have been the same number of teams as there are this year since 1998. Attendance keeps rising ....
The average fan can't buy Knicks tickets, Ranger tickets, Giants tickets ..... please tell me what your point is?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
In the end, everyone has their opinions and nobody will waver from them. The one thing that makes me pi$$ed off though is once again this generalization by non yankee fans feeling the need to describe Yankee fans as pompous, arrogant, and numerous other names. IS that all some of you fellas can come up with when all is said and done ? Its pathetic, because in the end, the only " fans " who bash other teams, players, and fans are non yankee fans. Day in and day out Yankee fans on these boards and others give credit to other teams, enter discussions with positive feedback, comments, and support for other teams. We are not chiming in on every other teams discussion taking pot shots at their players ( with of course some Red Sox exceptions, which is just how Sox/yankee fans do things) or fans.
Next time some of you describe us Yankee fans with any number of your various slurs take a look in the mirror and think about it first.
-- Yogi Berra
Also, you can't compare getting Knicks tickets to Yankee tickets. Yankee Stadium holds three times as many fans as MSG, and basketball seats are also bought out by corporations, too. My point here is that attendance figures are artificially inflated because of that fact. To deny this is to deny the facts. And there are only 8 home games for the Giants each year so those tickets are certainly going to be hard to come by.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> . But you're so wound up about attendance figures and blowing up anyone else's opinions on this topic that you probably failed to notice that.
If you can't see or accept that, I can't help you there. >>
There you go again telling other people about what YOU think is wrong with them! A tad bit pompous no? And you say "If you can't see or accept that, I can't help you" is not pompous? Grote, you have just acted in a way that you accused ME off earlier by refusing to see or accept ANYTHING other than your own view.
<< <i>Also, you can't compare getting Knicks tickets to Yankee tickets.
>>
Interesting, but you CAN compare Football TV ratings against Baseball? When football is played once a week as compared to everyday?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
-- Yogi Berra
Edit: The country centers around NY baseball. Know-it-all Yankee fans good. All other fans bad.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
soft,
no offense, but that's laughable coming from you who downright taunts others who dare to disagree with your "Al-Yankzeera" (with apologies to Bob Raissman, Daily News columnist) pontifications. I merely offered an opinion on why I think baseball has suffered over the years while football has thrived (and it's not due to gambling, drinking, etc.) but you can believe what you want to believe, that's what makes this country great, though I'd bet that other than you and bri and the other Yankee fans on here, most people would agree at least to some extent with my comments.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> no offense, but that's laughable coming from you who downright taunts others who dare to disagree with your "Al-Yankzeera" (with apologies to Bob Raissman, Daily News columnist) pontifications. . >>
First of all, if you even bothered to go back and read your comments .... you would see that you try and ram your "opinions"down our throats as much as anybody you accuse of doing. Then when you are disagreed with you have a knack for being a completely pompous by saying " If you can't see or accept that then there is nothing I can do"
Save me the pity party for yourself.
Secondly, "AlYankxeera" huh? Just because somebody DARES to not agree with your opinions?
You are flying off the handle with these remarks when I "offer opinions" that are different from the ones barfed out by the majority Yankee haters on this forum.
Didn't you say you were DONE? Ha! I can't wait for you to reply with another self indulged rant that canonizes yourself as Joey do gooder poster.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i> Edit: The country centers around NY baseball. Know-it-all Yankee fans good. All other fans bad. >>
Just look at this insightful comment. Lame as lame can be ...... grote, your finger could not be FURTHER from the pulse of this subject.
Hey Bri, you around? Look at this comment
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Grote, you have just acted in a way that you accused ME off earlier by refusing to see or accept ANYTHING other than your own view.
soft,
no offense, but that's laughable coming from you who downright taunts others who dare to disagree with your "Al-Yankzeera" (with apologies to Bob Raissman, Daily News columnist) pontifications. I merely offered an opinion on why I think baseball has suffered over the years while football has thrived (and it's not due to gambling, drinking, etc.) but you can believe what you want to believe, that's what makes this country great, though I'd bet that other than you and bri and the other Yankee fans on here, most people would agree at least to some extent with my comments. >>
And sports sociologists from Universities across America would to " some extent " agree with Dan and I regarding gambling, drinking, and violence in football.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>And sports sociologists from Universities across America would to " some extent " agree with Dan and I regarding gambling, drinking, and violence in football. >>
Really? "Sports sociologists" now?
Boy, you guys at Al-Yankzeera are getting more creative by the day.
So, I Google sports sociologists, and I get this acronym - BIRG: Basking in Reflected Glory. People climb on a team's bandwagon because they believe that associating with a winner makes them a winner. When fans BIRG, they align themselves with a team that has success, hoping that the connection will improve the way they're viewed by others. They fly their colors to make sure that others know that they're on the winning side. They scream, "We're No. 1."
Sounds like a Yankee fan to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>And sports sociologists from Universities across America would to " some extent " agree with Dan and I regarding gambling, drinking, and violence in football. >>
Really? "Sports sociologists" now?
Boy, you guys at Al-Yankzeera are getting more creative by the day.
So, I Google sports sociologists, and I get this acronym - BIRG: Basking in Reflected Glory. People climb on a team's bandwagon because they believe that associating with a winner makes them a winner. When fans BIRG, they align themselves with a team that has success, hoping that the connection will improve the way they're viewed by others. They fly their colors to make sure that others know that they're on the winning side. They scream, "We're No. 1."
Sounds like a Yankee fan to me. >>
So I see you not only are a hater, but dont quite know how to use google huh ?
You truly are a moron sometimes, since the scope of why it was even mentioned had ZERO to do with the Yankees. Perhaps try reading sometime if you can hack it.
Most major universities in America offer courses in the Sociology of sport. Try working that google again and get back to me when you have a clue.
-- Yogi Berra