The Cowboys were the recipients of the WORST trade in NFL history IMO. Herschel Walker. Remember that one! The Vikings just handed the Cowboys that dynasty with enough draft picks to fill out half of a team
True, but the difference there is that Dallas still had to structure their team to abide the cap. That is not true in baseball.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I don't for one second believe footballs dominance over baseball has ANYTHING to do with revenue sharing, payroll, etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with that once a week SHOT that alot of people LOVE. Sit down, drink beer, gamble, eat your face off.
I don't buy that argument. Baseball was BY FAR the #1 sport in America for many years into the 1990s. It's no coincidence that the NFL became increasingly popular when the payroll disparity issue became such a focal point in baseball. In NY, we tend to forget how "the other half" lives and truth be told, those fans have flocked to football because it is a much more competitive league. In addition to that, the NFL does a MUCH better job at marketing its product than MLB does, and the commissioner of baseball is an absolute JOKE position if you compare it to the commisioner of the NFL.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i> True, but the difference there is that Dallas still had to structure their team to abide the cap. That is not true in baseball. >>
well ...... ok. The NFL did not implement a cap until 1994. By then that Dallas team already had one Super Bowl under its belt. And 1994 made it two. Not quite sure that the Cowboys could have pulled off THAT roster with the cap firmly implemented. Like I said, the Patriots are just out of this world.
well...with the pennant sewed up and a "meaningless" game against the basement of the AL East.. and on a rather cool "school night" 52,265 folks opened their wallets to watch the Yankees tonight.
<< <i> I don't buy that argument. Baseball was BY FAR the #1 sport in America for many years into the 1990s. It's no coincidence that the NFL became increasingly popular when the payroll disparity issue became such a focal point in baseball. In NY, we tend to forget how "the other half" lives and truth be told, those fans have flocked to football because it is a much more competitive league. In addition to that, the NFL does a MUCH better job at marketing its product than MLB does, and the commissioner of baseball is an absolute JOKE position if you compare it to the commisioner of the NFL. >>
Alright, then will you explain to me why baseball is setting ALL TIME attendance records?
Hogwash, football has caught on and become a big part of weekend fabric in America. Old geezers, young girls, and its historic back bone ...... young to middle age guys.
Its all about Bars, betting, food, sit down time at home. Baseball and its team salary structure had nothing to do with that.
is it fair to theose 52,000 ticket buying baseball fans to say...sorry, but on;y 9,000 Marlins fans showed tonight....so your money/support needs to be spent elsewhere on another team that has no fans?
52,265 folks opened their wallets to watch the Yankees tonight
The problem with baseball is not in NY, murcerfan. Go back to bashing Arod. Serious discussion skills escape you.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Its all about Bars, betting, food, sit down time at home. Baseball and its team salary structure had nothing to do with that.
As I said before, I disagree with you there, and I believe the facts bear me out. The TV ratings for the World Series have dropped dramatically over the last decade and if people in the rest of the U.S. aren't interested in the freakin' World Series, then yes, baseball has a problem there. Football ratings, by contrast, have skyrocketed over that period, and to ignore that fact is just not accepting the facts. Yankee fans, I know, have trouble with that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
There are 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams in baseball averaging OVER 25,000 per game. That is a average of OVER 2 million per season for 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams. Those numbers have never been thought possible until the last couplke of years.
<< <i>Its all about Bars, betting, food, sit down time at home. Baseball and its team salary structure had nothing to do with that.
As I said before, I disagree with you there, and I believe the facts bear me out. The TV ratings for the World Series have dropped dramatically over the last decade and if people in the rest of the U.S. aren't interested in the freakin' World Series, then yes, baseball has a problem there. Football ratings, by contrast, have skyrocketed over that period, and to ignore that fact is just not accepting the facts. Yankee fans, I know, have trouble with that. >>
Accepting what facts grote? That the ONE DAY Super Bowl has become a well marketed HOLIDAY to EAT, DRINK BEER, and GAMBLE?
Listen, I am not arguing baseball vs football as far as TV ratings go. They are two totally different animals. I would like you, grote, to explain to me that if baseball is losing popularity ...... whay is attendance at a ALL TIME HIGH ? And don't use football for christ sake Football is its own animal. More people love it then ever before. BUT it has NOTHING to do with baseball man
I'm not even talking about the Super Bowl. I'm saying that the main reason the NFL is more popular now than MLB is because the league is more competitive and the NFL does a much better job at marketing the game than baseball does. I can't make it any clearer than that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I'm not even talking about the Super Bowl. I'm saying that the main reason the NFL is more popular now than MLB is because the league is more competitive and the NFL does a much better job at marketing the game than baseball does. I can't make it any clearer than that. >>
Ok, fine. I am NOT arguing that baseball is on the same level as football as far as popularity goes. What I AM arguing is that THAT FACT has NOTHING to do with baseball. I asked you two times to explain to me WHY baseball is cracking attendance records if what you say is true that baseball fans have left and flocked to football.
That is incorrect and I can't make it any more clear either.
not sure where you get your marketing ideas from there lil' grote dude, but pehaps marketing a 16 game season vs. a 162 game season has some tiny lil' differences..maybe not..perhaps Hank Williams or Mick Jagger needs to be hired to do a big she-bang every night....hell let's force the networks and ESPN to go big every night of the summer.
<< <i>There are 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams in baseball averaging OVER 25,000 per game. That is a average of OVER 2 million per season for 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams. Those numbers have never been thought possible until the last couplke of years. >>
The big money is in TV revenue, and that is much more correlated with market size than attendance.
<< <i>There are 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams in baseball averaging OVER 25,000 per game. That is a average of OVER 2 million per season for 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams. Those numbers have never been thought possible until the last couplke of years. >>
The big money is in TV revenue, and that is much more correlated with market size than attendance. >>
fair enough zig...... although baseball has NEVER been able to match football on the tube. Its a different game man. It is played every day and there is NO WAY that baseball TV ratings can stand up to a AWESOME sport in which its teams play just once a week.
You can't just discount baseball setting attendance records. AGAIN, I am not arguing that baseball is in any way as popular as football. BUT, I am saying that the NFL's popularity has NOTHING to do with baseball and its payroll differences.
I think my point has been lost in the shuffle here. Please go back & read my original post on this thread.
murcerfan, I thought I told you to go back and bash Arod.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
While it is true that spending tons of money on payroll will not guarantee success or championships in baseball, it is almost a certainity that you will not win a World Series if your payroll is not in the top 10 at least. Even the lower payroll teams like the A's and Twins may make it to the postseason, but they rarely advance as far as the Series. For those teams, the window of opportunity is very limited, and if you have a young team with great players you better win now because those players will almost certainly seek "greener" pastures as soon as they're free agent eligible.
I am a Mets fan, so I certainly don't discourage spending big bucks on salary, but the teams that can afford to do so have some much more margin for error because they can absorb the big bust salaries (see Pavano & Sheffield), and still sign players like Abreu to fill the gap.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know revenue sharing is NOT, because the cheaper owners just pocket the money and refuse to put the revenue back into the team (see the Royals). I do know, however, that one of the main reasons that NFL football has become MUCH more popular in America over baseball these days is because in the NFL there is a salary cap and the salary structure guarantees that ANY team from any market big or small has a chance to win each year. Of course, such a structure would never be even considered by the MLB players union. The MLB players' union may be the most powerful one in sports, but ironically, it's at the expense of the fans to some degree.
soft, that was my original thread here. as usual, things get blown out of proportion here, but I stand by my assertions, and I believe most objective fans would, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
fair enough zig...... although baseball has NEVER been able to match football on the tube.
Baseball was America's #1 sport until the last 20 years or so. So why did that change? Football's been around alot longer than that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>And to be honest, I think the salary cap has ruined football. Dozens upon dozens of members here speak about the glory days of the NFL....the 70's....Steelers...Cowboys.....into the 80's with the 49'ers
Ever hear of the Patriots? The Cowboys that won 3 Super Bowls in 3 years? The NFL has proven that good teams can become just as great as the ones you mentioned, even more so. The Cowboys won more Super Bowls in the 90s than they did in all those "glory years" of the 1970s so your argument there is invalid. >>
The Cowboys built that team during the caps infancy, and was the product of the Walker trade and good management. The Patriots, although winners of several super bowls will hardly go down in history with some of the great dynasties of the past IMO. So therefor I dont think my argument was invalid at all. I was pointing out the sentiment that is expressed on these forums every day when discussing football, and I think many will agree that never again will such talent be grouped on one team like the teams of past.
Regarding the Marlins....Were they not BASHED all offseason for how they wrecked that team in such a drastic and pitiful manner >? Have they not proven that they have solid young talent that can be held together for at least a few years ?
Grote,
Nobody is ignoring the advantage the Yankees have. I have said they do all along. My problem is with everyone who feels they shouldnt have that advantage. It is America we live in. Thats the way things work. Every team need not have the same payroll in order for it to work, and I think I explained in detail earlier.
As for popularity, I wholeheartedly agree with Dan. Football is at the point it is because of drinking and gambling, PERIOD. Office pools, bar room pools, and the like dominate the game.
One game a week adds to the drama and specialness of football. People gather to watch the game. They eat, they drink, its a party. Baseball games are played 7 days a week and just will not have that all or nothing, on the edge of your seat effect that football has due to amount of games.
Baseball is far from weak anywhere. Ratings for world series games have ZIPPO to do with your argument. The world series is best of 7, and is not bet on to the same degree football is. The super bowl is ONE GAME. People gather, its a party, an occasion. You arent American if you dont have at least a couple of bucks riding on the game in one way or another. It is by that nature alone that the super bowl garners its ratings.
No matter what way you shake or spin it, baseball is at its highest point EVER, and EVERYWHERE. Those are facts, not opinion.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>fair enough zig...... although baseball has NEVER been able to match football on the tube.
Baseball was America's #1 sport until the last 20 years or so. So why did that change? Football's been around alot longer than that. >>
Society has changed. We are a more violent society for one, leading to the popularity of the more violent sport, football.
We have become a nation of short attention span. To have to watch a slower paced game, day in and day out doesnt suit people as much as the past. Football, being once a week lends itself to the high paced, high stressed society we live in.
We have become a nation of addicts. Addicted to tv, alcohol, violence, gambling. For better or worse football lends itself very well to all of them.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
<< <i>who would have guessed a simple thread about Abreu kicking some ass early in a game would have morphed into this? >>
Just wait till others chime in, then it will get REALLY good
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>
Actually, there is something wrong with the sense of entitlement that your statement implies. High standards means what? In other words, the other teams in MLB don't want to win as badly as NY does? The only way to assure these "high standards" is to outspend everyone by a huge margin year after year, replacing one failing superstar with another, overpaying for players just to keep them from other teams, and writing off bad FA signings (i.e. Pavano) that would cripple most other teams payroll for many seasons. Yankee fans fail to see how this negatively impacts teams in small markets, teams that have no chance at all of winning consistently. >>
blah blah blah. Sox spent 120-140 million this year. Whattdya think there are owners out there NOT as rich as Steinny? Come on. Those owners would rather pocket the money than reinvest in their "product". They'd rather get a checks from the productive owners than actually use that money to improve their franchise. Y
"Just ask the NY Knicks, Rangers, and Islanders if they think $$ is the key to winning. "
^^Smartest thing said in this whole thread.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Yea, Bobby Abreu given to the Yankees by the Phillies who didn't want to pay him. Another rent a player deal handed to the guys for money is no object.
Funny part was the dumb Phillie management gave up on the season when they still had a chance for the play-offs.
But when you root for the Phillies and Boston, what else can you expect. Baseball is no fun, PERIOD.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
<< <i>Yea, Bobby Abreu given to the Yankees by the Phillies who didn't want to pay him. Another rent a player deal handed to the guys for money is no object.
Funny part was the dumb Phillie management gave up on the season when they still had a chance for the play-offs.
But when you root for the Phillies and Boston, what else can you expect. Baseball is no fun, PERIOD. >>
And how is that the Yankees fault ? Are you trying to tell me that Philly is a small market town, with a team run by poverty stricken owners ? Its simple, these guys want to POCKET money. They got their new ballpark and are raking in the $$ and couldnt care less about the product they put on the field.
George will reach into his pocket and take a loss if he has to just to assure a winner on the field. If other owners acted like he did you would find alot less complaining going on, that is for certain.
"The other teams could make trouble for us if they win." -- Yogi Berra
Again, I just want to reiterate that I'm not criticizing the Yankees for spending the way they do. George is interested in winning only and that is great for the fans, in New York at least. I'm just saying that the system the way it exists now, basically excludes a large number of teams from ever hoping to be successful because they cannot spend the way the Yankees do because they don't have the huge TV station revenue, etc, that the Yankees do. Even "Clueless" Bud Selig has acknowledged that there is am escalating problem in baseball due to payroll disaprities. That is fact, not opinion.
I also firmly believe that football has gained in poularity over the last decade or two because it is inherently a more competitive league due to the salary cap. Every fan of every team knows they have a chance to win, if not right away, then very soon if the right moves are made, wheras in baseball the exact opposite is true. How many of you would be willing to bet that a team in the lower half of payroll wins the World Series (it hasn't happened in the last 20 years at least), or forget about the World Series, that a team like the Pirates will even finish at .500 in the next decade.
I'm not sure what the answer is, or if anything even necessarily needs to be done (after all, I'm a Mets fan, so spending is fine with me), but it's the main reason large sections of the country tune out on baseball when the postseason begins. That said, Let's Go Mets!!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Grote-I fully support and HOPE sincerely not only is a cap introduced, but also a salary minimum. These owners are rich, and some have figured out that in spending nothing they can actual pocket more money from handouts. To be honest, I love the Marlins approach to fiscal resposibility; and so far their approach has been nothing but successful. I don't believe this so called "poor owner" angle. Every owner in the game, has the money to bring in a marquee free agent. I know free agents will go with who's offering more, we all understand that. But if I see one ownership group pocketing 10 million for simply not fielding a competitive team as opposed to earning less by signing said free agent and not improving drastically enough to be noticed, it's quite simple to see why. It's the bottom line. The NFL not only has a salary cap but a salary minimum. I believe BOTH are needed and should be instituted in the MLB. Will they? I doubt many "low income" owners will vote on setting a minimum of lets say, 50 million. I doubt any big market owners will argue with capping team payrolls at 90 million. Do I think it'll get done? I only hope.
To play devils advocate for a moment; a great arguement AGAINST said salary implications would be the wild card race in both leagues, namely the National League. Look how many teams are within 6 games of the wild card. Now, that can simply be a case of overachievement/underachievement and overall a weaker league than the AL.
Who knows. I'm a Yankees fan. I expect the Yankees to win. I can't stand when other franchises fans denounce us Yankees fans for an allegiance to a team. No doubt ANY fan of ANY Major League team would like to not only spend money like the Yankees, but spend it in a way that produces championship caliber teams. Don't complain to Yankees fans, complain to your teams ownership group for lining their own pockets while giving you fans a subpar product year after year after year.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
I like that idea, too, because obviously the revenue sharing plan isn't working because many of these owners are either too greedy to put the money back into the team, or more possibly, that they feel it's not worth it anyway because the disparity is too great anyway. It does seem odd that there are all these cheapskate owners in baseball who apparently are content never to invest in their clubs to put the best possible team on the field, while in football you never hear about that issue. It can't be because football owners are more committed or more generous to their fans than baseball owners, right?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Well, I think it's because the NFL has had such a tradition of competitive balance. It has lent itself to instill a thought process or way of thinking in the NFL(I believe) that ANY team can be turned around with a couple of good drafts as well as a key free agent or two. In baseball, I think the lines have been drawn as to who the competitors are and who at best are spoilers. Honestly, I'm a much bigger football fan than I am of baseball. Why? I don't know. My team went from getting routed in the Super Bowl to missing the playoffs and eventually having a top 5 pick in the draft. A few good draft picks, inhouse player developement, as well as a few key free agent signees and now they are right back in Super Bowl contention. I do believe that it is "low income" owner greed to line their own pockets which is compounded with the fact in the belief that signing a good free agent is just wasting money. If a cap and minimum was installed, I honestly believe with in a 5 year period there would be such a more competitive and interesting league.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
Griffey, A-Rod, and Unit in SEA, Bonds in PIT, The Professor in CHI, and the 'Stros would have had Hampton, Kyle, and Cammy (with 'Roids and all) in their primes.
Ouch...
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Abreu is the best thing that has happened to the Yanks since Matsui. They did not buy him for mega bucks, just a smart baseall move............ Yankee haters.
Proud of my 16x20 autographed and framed collection - all signed in person. Not big on modern - I'm stuck in the past!
They did not buy him for mega bucks, just a smart baseall move
I agree that trading for Abreu turned out to be a good move for the Yanks, but he is owed $20 million dollars on his contract and the Yanks were the ONLY team willing to absorb that kind of salary.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>They did not buy him for mega bucks, just a smart baseall move >>
What?
I'm sure you didn't mean that as it reads. As grote15 said, the only team willing (and financially able) to take on his $27M owed to him over the rest of this season and the next was the Yankees. So, in fact, this is a perfect example of "buying him for mega bucks".
So what? If the Yankees didn't pick him up, would he still be playing? Of course, don't act like he wasn't wanted it's just no other team had the cojones to take a chance on a "faded" semi star on the wrong side of 30. Well, so far it's looking like it's working out.
Collecting; Mark Mulder rookies Chipper Jones rookies Orlando Cabrera rookies Lawrence Taylor Sam Huff Lavar Arrington NY Giants NY Yankees NJ Nets NJ Devils 1950s-1960s Topps NY Giants Team cards
<< <i>So what? If the Yankees didn't pick him up, would he still be playing? Of course, don't act like he wasn't wanted it's just no other team had the cojones to take a chance on a "faded" semi star on the wrong side of 30. Well, so far it's looking like it's working out. >>
hahahahaha
'cojones'? I think you failed spanish class, because 'cojones' doesn't mean 'deep pockets'.
There was NO chance taken on this guy...the yankees and their infinite payroll could take on any potential player with any dollar amount, and if it doesn't work out, they've got an all star roster to fill in the blanks.
No other team in baseball has that ability. The yankees have the ability to cover up bad signing after bad signing with more money (Pavano, anyone? Wright, anyone?) Any other team that makes ONE of those horrific decisions is crushed until that contract ends.
This extreme disparity in payroll is exactly why true revenue sharing and a salary cap needs to be put in place immediately. Make the league competitive again, and instead of the most money winning, actually put an emphasis on good team building skills again.
I am going to go out on a limb and predict the usual yankee fans will come screaming that 'steinbrenner wants to win more than anyone else!' and 'we shouldn't have to pay for other teams' payrolls!' etc. etc. etc. Of course you yankee fans hate the idea of a cap - your decade of owning the AL east would come to a close immediately, and the yankees would become the raiders of MLB.
<<I am going to go out on a limb and predict the usual yankee fans will come screaming that 'steinbrenner wants to win more than anyone else!' and 'we shouldn't have to pay for other teams' payrolls!' etc. etc. etc. Of course you yankee fans hate the idea of a cap - your decade of owning the AL east would come to a close immediately, and the yankees would become the raiders of MLB. >>
Yes but lets not forget the raiders don't have to share w/the nfl all the other nfl owners do . Thats why Al davis has never really cared if the raiders win. He wins no matter what and thats why the nfl and other owners hate all davis.
Also in the yankees defense screw salary caps. If you got the money spend it. Don't hate the rich for what they have.
<< <i>Yes but lets not forget the raiders don't have to share w/the nfl all the other nfl owners do . Thats why Al davis has never really cared if the raiders win. He wins no matter what and thats why the nfl and other owners hate all davis. >>
Not my point...my point is that al davis tries to assemble his team like he did 20 years ago, and his teams stink because of it. The yankees would fall apart if steinbrenner were forced to actually be reasonable with payroll.
<< <i>Also in the yankees defense screw salary caps. If you got the money spend it. Don't hate the rich for what they have. >>
You are missing the point. The yankees need the other teams as much as the other teams need the yankees. Run out all the other teams and then what, the yankees play themselves? If team after team is forced to fold because they can't compete financially, where does that leave the yankees?
No one is 'hating' the yankees for what they have - they are simply shining a light on what's turning into a really nasty situation.
For the long term health of the league, a cap HAS to be brought into place. Look at people's attention in sports...the playoff races in baseball haven't been this good in years, with teams like the marlins and phillies once left for dead in the heat of it, tons of stories, and people only want to focus on week ONE in the NFL.
Baseball is doomed if they don't get a cap and real revenue sharing in place. Meanwhile, the NFL dominates the sports landscape in ways MLB can only dream of. The NFL is so big that the DRAFT is a huge affair. Can you actually recall any top drafted baseball players not named Delmon Young?
As much as I am sad to say it, MLB is going to whittle itself out of existence in 20 years if a cap and revenue sharing aren't put into play.
Axtell I get what your saying but Put a cap on the yankees and steinbrener is still rich. Why does al davis not care because no matter how bad the raiders stink the fans are lifers and the money will always roll in. If you could make hypo 20 mill a year and never win a super bowl and make that same amount even if you won the super bowl would you care .
The same with the yankees and even the loser bosox the fans are there and always will be ring or no ring and they will make money.
Unfortunatly sports has always been big buisness and with big buisness comes the leaders and the followers. Some teams make alot some teams follow and make what they can. all in all they are riding the same wave just some swim better. That will never change
<< <i>Axtell I get what your saying but Put a cap on the yankees and steinbrener is still rich. >>
I don't give a damn how rich they are. They aren't playing on the same level as every other team in MLB, and that includes the red sox.
<< <i> Why does al davis not care because no matter how bad the raiders stink the fans are lifers and the money will always roll in. If you could make hypo 20 mill a year and never win a super bowl and make that same amount even if you won the super bowl would you care . >>
What are you talking about? You have completely missed my point.
<< <i>The same with the yankees and even the loser bosox the fans are there and always will be ring or no ring and they will make money.
Unfortunatly sports has always been big buisness and with big buisness comes the leaders and the followers. Some teams make alot some teams follow and make what they can. all in all they are riding the same wave just some swim better. That will never change >>
You have absolutely, completely missed the point of my post.
It's not about how much money they make, but how much they can spend in regards to the other teams in the league. What would happen if they NY football Giants could spend 2x what the green bay packers could? They'd sign all stars at every position and dominate the league - just like the yankees do.
Unless MLB enacts a cap and revenue sharing, the long term financial prospects for baseball are very, very dim.
<<Unless MLB enacts a cap and revenue sharing, the long term financial prospects for baseball are very, very dim. >>
I disagree teams have made and lost money since the begining of the game look at boston selling ruth because of the money. It don't look good for the future but all you will see is the teams that can't make the strokes will look for new cities and markets where they can. Salary cap wont change that. Salary caps might make it more level but it wont bring in more fans and the fans pay the bills bottom line.
<< <i> I am going to go out on a limb and predict the usual yankee fans will come screaming that 'steinbrenner wants to win more than anyone else!' and 'we shouldn't have to pay for other teams' payrolls!' etc. etc. etc. Of course you yankee fans hate the idea of a cap - your decade of owning the AL east would come to a close immediately, and the yankees would become the raiders of MLB. >>
Which OF COURSE, is the same exact thing as the "usual Yankee hating suspects" are now moaning about payroll in unison once again as all of their winter and early season predictions by them have not panned out. Remember? The Yanks farm system, the Yanks pitching, the Red SOx and Jays are gonna finish higher then them, the Yanks are going to struggle all year bla, bla, bla. Nope, nope, nope, and nope. Now its back to the tired old last cructh.
Ax, don't forget that sig line bet we have over Mariner and Yanks starting staff E.R.A. Its not looking good for you right now!
Comments
True, but the difference there is that Dallas still had to structure their team to abide the cap. That is not true in baseball.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
NFL football is numero uno right now because of
1. Bars
2. Office Pools
3. Beer
4. Barbecue
I don't for one second believe footballs dominance over baseball has ANYTHING to do with revenue sharing, payroll, etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with that once a week SHOT that alot of people LOVE. Sit down, drink beer, gamble, eat your face off.
I don't buy that argument. Baseball was BY FAR the #1 sport in America for many years into the 1990s. It's no coincidence that the NFL became increasingly popular when the payroll disparity issue became such a focal point in baseball. In NY, we tend to forget how "the other half" lives and truth be told, those fans have flocked to football because it is a much more competitive league. In addition to that, the NFL does a MUCH better job at marketing its product than MLB does, and the commissioner of baseball is an absolute JOKE position if you compare it to the commisioner of the NFL.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
True, but the difference there is that Dallas still had to structure their team to abide the cap. That is not true in baseball. >>
well ...... ok. The NFL did not implement a cap until 1994. By then that Dallas team already had one Super Bowl under its belt. And 1994 made it two. Not quite sure that the Cowboys could have pulled off THAT roster with the cap firmly implemented. Like I said, the Patriots are just out of this world.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
and on a rather cool "school night" 52,265 folks opened their wallets to watch the Yankees tonight.
<< <i> I don't buy that argument. Baseball was BY FAR the #1 sport in America for many years into the 1990s. It's no coincidence that the NFL became increasingly popular when the payroll disparity issue became such a focal point in baseball. In NY, we tend to forget how "the other half" lives and truth be told, those fans have flocked to football because it is a much more competitive league. In addition to that, the NFL does a MUCH better job at marketing its product than MLB does, and the commissioner of baseball is an absolute JOKE position if you compare it to the commisioner of the NFL. >>
Alright, then will you explain to me why baseball is setting ALL TIME attendance records?
Hogwash, football has caught on and become a big part of weekend fabric in America. Old geezers, young girls, and its historic back bone ...... young to middle age guys.
Its all about Bars, betting, food, sit down time at home. Baseball and its team salary structure had nothing to do with that.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
The problem with baseball is not in NY, murcerfan. Go back to bashing Arod. Serious discussion skills escape you.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
please explain baseball setting attendance records. NOT NY attendance ...... attendance PERIOD.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
As I said before, I disagree with you there, and I believe the facts bear me out. The TV ratings for the World Series have dropped dramatically over the last decade and if people in the rest of the U.S. aren't interested in the freakin' World Series, then yes, baseball has a problem there. Football ratings, by contrast, have skyrocketed over that period, and to ignore that fact is just not accepting the facts. Yankee fans, I know, have trouble with that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>Its all about Bars, betting, food, sit down time at home. Baseball and its team salary structure had nothing to do with that.
As I said before, I disagree with you there, and I believe the facts bear me out. The TV ratings for the World Series have dropped dramatically over the last decade and if people in the rest of the U.S. aren't interested in the freakin' World Series, then yes, baseball has a problem there. Football ratings, by contrast, have skyrocketed over that period, and to ignore that fact is just not accepting the facts. Yankee fans, I know, have trouble with that.
Accepting what facts grote? That the ONE DAY Super Bowl has become a well marketed HOLIDAY to EAT, DRINK BEER, and GAMBLE?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
what was your point again mr. giant sports brain?
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
I'm not even talking about the Super Bowl. I'm saying that the main reason the NFL is more popular now than MLB is because the league is more competitive and the NFL does a much better job at marketing the game than baseball does. I can't make it any clearer than that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
blah,blah,blah
<< <i>soft,
I'm not even talking about the Super Bowl. I'm saying that the main reason the NFL is more popular now than MLB is because the league is more competitive and the NFL does a much better job at marketing the game than baseball does. I can't make it any clearer than that. >>
Ok, fine. I am NOT arguing that baseball is on the same level as football as far as popularity goes. What I AM arguing is that THAT FACT has NOTHING to do with baseball. I asked you two times to explain to me WHY baseball is cracking attendance records if what you say is true that baseball fans have left and flocked to football.
That is incorrect and I can't make it any more clear either.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>There are 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams in baseball averaging OVER 25,000 per game. That is a average of OVER 2 million per season for 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams. Those numbers have never been thought possible until the last couplke of years. >>
The big money is in TV revenue, and that is much more correlated with market size than attendance.
<< <i>
<< <i>There are 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams in baseball averaging OVER 25,000 per game. That is a average of OVER 2 million per season for 25 (TWENTY FIVE) teams. Those numbers have never been thought possible until the last couplke of years. >>
The big money is in TV revenue, and that is much more correlated with market size than attendance. >>
fair enough zig...... although baseball has NEVER been able to match football on the tube. Its a different game man. It is played every day and there is NO WAY that baseball TV ratings can stand up to a AWESOME sport in which its teams play just once a week.
You can't just discount baseball setting attendance records. AGAIN, I am not arguing that baseball is in any way as popular as football. BUT, I am saying that the NFL's popularity has NOTHING to do with baseball and its payroll differences.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
...i highly doubt it, but it has done a number on aforementioned TV and attendence numbers in the past.
we wouldn't want to give "the nation" another lame excuse
I think my point has been lost in the shuffle here. Please go back & read my original post on this thread.
murcerfan, I thought I told you to go back and bash Arod.
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I am a Mets fan, so I certainly don't discourage spending big bucks on salary, but the teams that can afford to do so have some much more margin for error because they can absorb the big bust salaries (see Pavano & Sheffield), and still sign players like Abreu to fill the gap.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know revenue sharing is NOT, because the cheaper owners just pocket the money and refuse to put the revenue back into the team (see the Royals). I do know, however, that one of the main reasons that NFL football has become MUCH more popular in America over baseball these days is because in the NFL there is a salary cap and the salary structure guarantees that ANY team from any market big or small has a chance to win each year. Of course, such a structure would never be even considered by the MLB players union. The MLB players' union may be the most powerful one in sports, but ironically, it's at the expense of the fans to some degree.
soft, that was my original thread here. as usual, things get blown out of proportion here, but I stand by my assertions, and I believe most objective fans would, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Arod sucks.
happy now Mr. Giagantic sports brain?
sleep well..look forward to your weak excuses in October?
edited to add: Arod is really a waste of money..you are right on that point.
Baseball was America's #1 sport until the last 20 years or so. So why did that change? Football's been around alot longer than that.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>And to be honest, I think the salary cap has ruined football. Dozens upon dozens of members here speak about the glory days of the NFL....the 70's....Steelers...Cowboys.....into the 80's with the 49'ers
Ever hear of the Patriots? The Cowboys that won 3 Super Bowls in 3 years? The NFL has proven that good teams can become just as great as the ones you mentioned, even more so. The Cowboys won more Super Bowls in the 90s than they did in all those "glory years" of the 1970s so your argument there is invalid. >>
The Cowboys built that team during the caps infancy, and was the product of the Walker trade and good management. The Patriots, although winners of several super bowls will hardly go down in history with some of the great dynasties of the past IMO. So therefor I dont think my argument was invalid at all. I was pointing out the sentiment that is expressed on these forums every day when discussing football, and I think many will agree that never again will such talent be grouped on one team like the teams of past.
Regarding the Marlins....Were they not BASHED all offseason for how they wrecked that team in such a drastic and pitiful manner >? Have they not proven that they have solid young talent that can be held together for at least a few years ?
Grote,
Nobody is ignoring the advantage the Yankees have. I have said they do all along. My problem is with everyone who feels they shouldnt have that advantage. It is America we live in. Thats the way things work. Every team need not have the same payroll in order for it to work, and I think I explained in detail earlier.
As for popularity, I wholeheartedly agree with Dan. Football is at the point it is because of drinking and gambling, PERIOD. Office pools, bar room pools, and the like dominate the game.
One game a week adds to the drama and specialness of football. People gather to watch the game. They eat, they drink, its a party. Baseball games are played 7 days a week and just will not have that all or nothing, on the edge of your seat effect that football has due to amount of games.
Baseball is far from weak anywhere. Ratings for world series games have ZIPPO to do with your argument. The world series is best of 7, and is not bet on to the same degree football is. The super bowl is ONE GAME. People gather, its a party, an occasion. You arent American if you dont have at least a couple of bucks riding on the game in one way or another. It is by that nature alone that the super bowl garners its ratings.
No matter what way you shake or spin it, baseball is at its highest point EVER, and EVERYWHERE. Those are facts, not opinion.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>fair enough zig...... although baseball has NEVER been able to match football on the tube.
Baseball was America's #1 sport until the last 20 years or so. So why did that change? Football's been around alot longer than that. >>
Society has changed. We are a more violent society for one, leading to the popularity of the more violent sport, football.
We have become a nation of short attention span. To have to watch a slower paced game, day in and day out doesnt suit people as much as the past. Football, being once a week lends itself to the high paced, high stressed society we live in.
We have become a nation of addicts. Addicted to tv, alcohol, violence, gambling. For better or worse football lends itself very well to all of them.
-- Yogi Berra
<< <i>who would have guessed a simple thread about Abreu kicking some ass early in a game would have morphed into this? >>
Just wait till others chime in, then it will get REALLY good
<< <i>
<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>
Actually, there is something wrong with the sense of entitlement that your statement implies. High standards means what? In other words, the other teams in MLB don't want to win as badly as NY does? The only way to assure these "high standards" is to outspend everyone by a huge margin year after year, replacing one failing superstar with another, overpaying for players just to keep them from other teams, and writing off bad FA signings (i.e. Pavano) that would cripple most other teams payroll for many seasons. Yankee fans fail to see how this negatively impacts teams in small markets, teams that have no chance at all of winning consistently. >>
blah blah blah. Sox spent 120-140 million this year. Whattdya think there are owners out there NOT as rich as Steinny? Come on. Those owners would rather pocket the money than reinvest in their "product". They'd rather get a checks from the productive owners than actually use that money to improve their franchise. Y
"Just ask the NY Knicks, Rangers, and Islanders if they think $$ is the key to winning. "
^^Smartest thing said in this whole thread.
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Funny part was the dumb Phillie management gave up on the season when they still had a chance for the play-offs.
But when you root for the Phillies and Boston, what else can you expect. Baseball is no fun, PERIOD.
<< <i>Yea, Bobby Abreu given to the Yankees by the Phillies who didn't want to pay him. Another rent a player deal handed to the guys for money is no object.
Funny part was the dumb Phillie management gave up on the season when they still had a chance for the play-offs.
But when you root for the Phillies and Boston, what else can you expect. Baseball is no fun, PERIOD. >>
And how is that the Yankees fault ? Are you trying to tell me that Philly is a small market town, with a team run by poverty stricken owners ? Its simple, these guys want to POCKET money. They got their new ballpark and are raking in the $$ and couldnt care less about the product they put on the field.
George will reach into his pocket and take a loss if he has to just to assure a winner on the field. If other owners acted like he did you would find alot less complaining going on, that is for certain.
-- Yogi Berra
I also firmly believe that football has gained in poularity over the last decade or two because it is inherently a more competitive league due to the salary cap. Every fan of every team knows they have a chance to win, if not right away, then very soon if the right moves are made, wheras in baseball the exact opposite is true. How many of you would be willing to bet that a team in the lower half of payroll wins the World Series (it hasn't happened in the last 20 years at least), or forget about the World Series, that a team like the Pirates will even finish at .500 in the next decade.
I'm not sure what the answer is, or if anything even necessarily needs to be done (after all, I'm a Mets fan, so spending is fine with me), but it's the main reason large sections of the country tune out on baseball when the postseason begins. That said, Let's Go Mets!!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
To play devils advocate for a moment; a great arguement AGAINST said salary implications would be the wild card race in both leagues, namely the National League. Look how many teams are within 6 games of the wild card. Now, that can simply be a case of overachievement/underachievement and overall a weaker league than the AL.
Who knows. I'm a Yankees fan. I expect the Yankees to win. I can't stand when other franchises fans denounce us Yankees fans for an allegiance to a team. No doubt ANY fan of ANY Major League team would like to not only spend money like the Yankees, but spend it in a way that produces championship caliber teams. Don't complain to Yankees fans, complain to your teams ownership group for lining their own pockets while giving you fans a subpar product year after year after year.
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I like that idea, too, because obviously the revenue sharing plan isn't working because many of these owners are either too greedy to put the money back into the team, or more possibly, that they feel it's not worth it anyway because the disparity is too great anyway. It does seem odd that there are all these cheapskate owners in baseball who apparently are content never to invest in their clubs to put the best possible team on the field, while in football you never hear about that issue. It can't be because football owners are more committed or more generous to their fans than baseball owners, right?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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Griffey, A-Rod, and Unit in SEA, Bonds in PIT, The Professor in CHI, and the 'Stros would have had Hampton, Kyle, and Cammy (with 'Roids and all) in their primes.
Ouch...
I agree that trading for Abreu turned out to be a good move for the Yanks, but he is owed $20 million dollars on his contract and the Yanks were the ONLY team willing to absorb that kind of salary.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>They did not buy him for mega bucks, just a smart baseall move >>
What?
I'm sure you didn't mean that as it reads. As grote15 said, the only team willing (and financially able) to take on his $27M owed to him over the rest of this season and the next was the Yankees. So, in fact, this is a perfect example of "buying him for mega bucks".
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<< <i>So what? If the Yankees didn't pick him up, would he still be playing? Of course, don't act like he wasn't wanted it's just no other team had the cojones to take a chance on a "faded" semi star on the wrong side of 30. Well, so far it's looking like it's working out. >>
hahahahaha
'cojones'? I think you failed spanish class, because 'cojones' doesn't mean 'deep pockets'.
There was NO chance taken on this guy...the yankees and their infinite payroll could take on any potential player with any dollar amount, and if it doesn't work out, they've got an all star roster to fill in the blanks.
No other team in baseball has that ability. The yankees have the ability to cover up bad signing after bad signing with more money (Pavano, anyone? Wright, anyone?) Any other team that makes ONE of those horrific decisions is crushed until that contract ends.
This extreme disparity in payroll is exactly why true revenue sharing and a salary cap needs to be put in place immediately. Make the league competitive again, and instead of the most money winning, actually put an emphasis on good team building skills again.
I am going to go out on a limb and predict the usual yankee fans will come screaming that 'steinbrenner wants to win more than anyone else!' and 'we shouldn't have to pay for other teams' payrolls!' etc. etc. etc. Of course you yankee fans hate the idea of a cap - your decade of owning the AL east would come to a close immediately, and the yankees would become the raiders of MLB.
Yes but lets not forget the raiders don't have to share w/the nfl all the other nfl owners do . Thats why Al davis has never really cared if the raiders win. He wins no matter what and thats why the nfl and other owners hate all davis.
Also in the yankees defense screw salary caps. If you got the money spend it. Don't hate the rich for what they have.
<< <i>Yes but lets not forget the raiders don't have to share w/the nfl all the other nfl owners do . Thats why Al davis has never really cared if the raiders win. He wins no matter what and thats why the nfl and other owners hate all davis. >>
Not my point...my point is that al davis tries to assemble his team like he did 20 years ago, and his teams stink because of it. The yankees would fall apart if steinbrenner were forced to actually be reasonable with payroll.
<< <i>Also in the yankees defense screw salary caps. If you got the money spend it. Don't hate the rich for what they have. >>
You are missing the point. The yankees need the other teams as much as the other teams need the yankees. Run out all the other teams and then what, the yankees play themselves? If team after team is forced to fold because they can't compete financially, where does that leave the yankees?
No one is 'hating' the yankees for what they have - they are simply shining a light on what's turning into a really nasty situation.
For the long term health of the league, a cap HAS to be brought into place. Look at people's attention in sports...the playoff races in baseball haven't been this good in years, with teams like the marlins and phillies once left for dead in the heat of it, tons of stories, and people only want to focus on week ONE in the NFL.
Baseball is doomed if they don't get a cap and real revenue sharing in place. Meanwhile, the NFL dominates the sports landscape in ways MLB can only dream of. The NFL is so big that the DRAFT is a huge affair. Can you actually recall any top drafted baseball players not named Delmon Young?
As much as I am sad to say it, MLB is going to whittle itself out of existence in 20 years if a cap and revenue sharing aren't put into play.
Why does al davis not care because no matter how bad the raiders stink the fans are lifers and the money will always roll in. If you could make hypo 20 mill a year and never win a super bowl and make that same amount even if you won the super bowl would you care .
The same with the yankees and even the loser bosox the fans are there and always will be ring or no ring and they will make money.
Unfortunatly sports has always been big buisness and with big buisness comes the leaders and the followers. Some teams make alot some teams follow and make what they can. all in all they are riding the same wave just some swim better. That will never change
<< <i>Axtell I get what your saying but Put a cap on the yankees and steinbrener is still rich. >>
I don't give a damn how rich they are. They aren't playing on the same level as every other team in MLB, and that includes the red sox.
<< <i> Why does al davis not care because no matter how bad the raiders stink the fans are lifers and the money will always roll in. If you could make hypo 20 mill a year and never win a super bowl and make that same amount even if you won the super bowl would you care . >>
What are you talking about? You have completely missed my point.
<< <i>The same with the yankees and even the loser bosox the fans are there and always will be ring or no ring and they will make money.
Unfortunatly sports has always been big buisness and with big buisness comes the leaders and the followers. Some teams make alot some teams follow and make what they can. all in all they are riding the same wave just some swim better. That will never change >>
You have absolutely, completely missed the point of my post.
It's not about how much money they make, but how much they can spend in regards to the other teams in the league. What would happen if they NY football Giants could spend 2x what the green bay packers could? They'd sign all stars at every position and dominate the league - just like the yankees do.
Unless MLB enacts a cap and revenue sharing, the long term financial prospects for baseball are very, very dim.
I disagree teams have made and lost money since the begining of the game look at boston selling ruth because of the money. It don't look good for the future but all you will see is the teams that can't make the strokes will look for new cities and markets where they can. Salary cap wont change that. Salary caps might make it more level but it wont bring in more fans and the fans pay the bills bottom line.
<< <i> I am going to go out on a limb and predict the usual yankee fans will come screaming that 'steinbrenner wants to win more than anyone else!' and 'we shouldn't have to pay for other teams' payrolls!' etc. etc. etc. Of course you yankee fans hate the idea of a cap - your decade of owning the AL east would come to a close immediately, and the yankees would become the raiders of MLB. >>
Which OF COURSE, is the same exact thing as the "usual Yankee hating suspects" are now moaning about payroll in unison once again as all of their winter and early season predictions by them have not panned out. Remember? The Yanks farm system, the Yanks pitching, the Red SOx and Jays are gonna finish higher then them, the Yanks are going to struggle all year bla, bla, bla. Nope, nope, nope, and nope. Now its back to the tired old last cructh.
Ax, don't forget that sig line bet we have over Mariner and Yanks starting staff E.R.A. Its not looking good for you right now!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240