Abreu

bri2327

Home run, double & 6 RBI's......in the 1st inning !

lawnmowerman

You know why dont ya? He's eating that good New York pizza

matt

softparade

<< <i>You know why dont ya? He's eating that good New York pizza

matt >>



no no no, its the morning bagles man

ziggy29

Must be nice to be able to buy your way past every injury and weakness.

yawie99

<< <i>Must be nice to be able to buy your way past every injury and weakness. >>



Must be. I wish my team did the same.

Jersey

With Matsui back they're awesome. Sure hope they lose when it counts.

ziggy29

<< <i>

<< <i>Must be nice to be able to buy your way past every injury and weakness. >>

Must be. I wish my team did the same. >>

I agree. That's the problem with the economics of baseball. I don't blame the Yankees for wanting to win and being willing to pay for it. They're merely taking advantage of a system that allows them that luxury.

I don't know what to do about it. The competitive imbalance based on payroll is a problem, but I don't think encouraging cheapskates with revenue sharing is the answer, either.

Still, for every Pittsburgh and Kansas City, there are Floridas and Oaklands which still seem to know how to put a competitive and exciting product on the field despite constant salary purges. So it's not ALL about money. If it were, the Yankees would win 140 games and the championship every year.

softparade

<< <i> So it's not ALL about money. If it were, the Yankees would win 140 games and the championship every year. >>



ABSOLUTLEY CORRECT. Those who point fingers at the Yankees and the Yankees ONLY, FAIL to ever mention that the Yankees do very well with the farm system, the draft, free agency, etc. It is just too EASY to make a blanket statement with payroll. There are more than a few teams who could spend with the Yankees IF WINNING was really the ONE AND ONLY CONCERN. George Steinbrenner cares about WINNING. That is ALL he CARES about.

The Yankees of today are the SAME as the Yankees of yesterday. Just ask the Kansas City A's and the St Louis Browns of long ago .....

I don't see ANY Yankee detractor EVER mention how ABYSMAL of a ball club they were from 1983 - 1993. Nope. THAT does not fly in the haters thought process. All the money the Yankees spent during those times bought them NOTHING.

bri2327

Dan, though i thoroughly agree with everything you said, I will have to come out and say that the Yanks from 83-88 werent exactly abysmal. Didnt they have the most wins in the majors during that span ? Now, 89-92, different story, they STUNK !

ziggy29

<< <i>Dan, though i thoroughly agree with everything you said, I will have to come out and say that the Yanks from 83-88 werent exactly abysmal. Didnt they have the most wins in the majors during that span ? >>

See, that's exactly it. To a Yankee fan, if you didn't win the division it was a disappointing year. And if you missed the playoffs, you flat out stunk.

bri2327

<< <i>

<< <i>Dan, though i thoroughly agree with everything you said, I will have to come out and say that the Yanks from 83-88 werent exactly abysmal. Didnt they have the most wins in the majors during that span ? >>

See, that's exactly it. To a Yankee fan, if you didn't win the division it was a disappointing year. And if you missed the playoffs, you flat out stunk. >>



And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ?

ziggy29

<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>

Nothing, except the inability to relate what it must be like to follow a team which can't realistically enter the "arms race" in terms of pursuing and locking up the best players, or an inability to see that there's a problem with the system because your team is "out of the race" every April.

bri2327

<< <i>

<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>

Nothing, except the inability to relate what it must be like to follow a team which can't realistically enter the "arms race" in terms of pursuing and locking up the best players, or an inability to see that there's a problem with the system because your team is "out of the race" every April. >>



Just ask the NY Knicks, Rangers, and Islanders if they think $$ is the key to winning.

Like others have mentioned, there are teams with lower payrolls in smaller markets who find a way to compete year in and year out. There are other franchises who run their teams horribly, pocket money without regard to putting a winning product on the field, and blame the " big guys " for their ineptitude. Meanwhile these same poverty crying owners make an additional 2 or 3 million every time the Yankees come to town for a 3 game series in addition to the luxury tax monies they receive.

I for one have seen plenty of pi$$ poor seasons from some of my teams here in NY to know exactly what it is like to lose, and relate very well with a team being out of the race. If anything it is worse because they do spend the $$ and still dont get it done. It all comes down to how you run your team. If not, then the Knicks and Rangers should be winning every year.

grote15

While it is true that spending tons of money on payroll will not guarantee success or championships in baseball, it is almost a certainity that you will not win a World Series if your payroll is not in the top 10 at least. Even the lower payroll teams like the A's and Twins may make it to the postseason, but they rarely advance as far as the Series. For those teams, the window of opportunity is very limited, and if you have a young team with great players you better win now because those players will almost certainly seek "greener" pastures as soon as they're free agent eligible.

I am a Mets fan, so I certainly don't discourage spending big bucks on salary, but the teams that can afford to do so have some much more margin for error because they can absorb the big bust salaries (see Pavano & Sheffield), and still sign players like Abreu to fill the gap.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I know revenue sharing is NOT, because the cheaper owners just pocket the money and refuse to put the revenue back into the team (see the Royals). I do know, however, that one of the main reasons that NFL football has become MUCH more popular in America over baseball these days is because in the NFL there is a salary cap and the salary structure guarantees that ANY team from any market big or small has a chance to win each year. Of course, such a structure would never be even considered by the MLB players union. The MLB players' union may be the most powerful one in sports, but ironically, it's at the expense of the fans to some degree.

ctsoxfan

<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>



Actually, there is something wrong with the sense of entitlement that your statement implies. High standards means what? In other words, the other teams in MLB don't want to win as badly as NY does? The only way to assure these "high standards" is to outspend everyone by a huge margin year after year, replacing one failing superstar with another, overpaying for players just to keep them from other teams, and writing off bad FA signings (i.e. Pavano) that would cripple most other teams payroll for many seasons. Yankee fans fail to see how this negatively impacts teams in small markets, teams that have no chance at all of winning consistently.

bri2327

<< <i>

<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>



Actually, there is something wrong with the sense of entitlement that your statement implies. High standards means what? In other words, the other teams in MLB don't want to win as badly as NY does? The only way to assure these "high standards" is to outspend everyone by a huge margin year after year, replacing one failing superstar with another, overpaying for players just to keep them from other teams, and writing off bad FA signings (i.e. Pavano) that would cripple most other teams payroll for many seasons. Yankee fans fail to see how this negatively impacts teams in small markets, teams that have no chance at all of winning consistently. >>



There is zero sense of entitlement implied. I swear, every time this comes up I want to remind people that this IS America we live in. Last time I checked this is how things are run in every aspect of our society and business world. There are the haves and the have nots. Thats life, fair or not.

And to be honest, I think the salary cap has ruined football. Dozens upon dozens of members here speak about the glory days of the NFL....the 70's....Steelers...Cowboys.....into the 80's with the 49'ers. We will NEVER see great teams like those assembled anymore. To me that is a shame. Its a product of todays society and this notion that everyone has to have a fair chance, nobody should be left behind, blah blah. I think its all crap. You cant make it, too bad.

Open a restaurant or some other business, work your tail off to make it work and turn a profit, then have someone step in and tell you that the 3 guys down the road arent doing so well so you have to stop that extension you were planning, or no more advertising, or worse, that you have to give those other guys who didnt run their place as well as you money to help keep them afloat.

bri2327

BTW, Grote.....the Marlins seem to be doing fairly well with their looooow payroll. 2 world series already in their short history. The dismantled the team, were expected to be nothing and spent the last year being dogged by the media and fans for what they did, and now look at them ? They have a great young team again that is competing, exciting, dangerous, and will stay together for the next 4 or 5 years.

Sure, its not as easy as in NY with the money, but it can and is done. And again, why does every team have to have equal opportunity ? Way too much brainwashing has gone on in todays society...to the point where people actually believe this stuff. Every aspect of our lives are dictated and formed by our social and economic status, so why should sports be different ? Some people have more opportunites than others, some take advantage of it, some dont. Some people have little opportunity and make the best of it, some dont and sit around and make excuses. Sports are just a parallel of society. The more we sit around and push for all this revenue sharing, salary caps, etc. the more we should look to our personal lives and see if that is how we would want it to be handled. Would you want someone telling you to give up your piece of the pie ? How bout someone telling you that you cant advance, buy a bigger home, a boat, etc. ? Sounds kinda like communism, dont it ?

Dallas88

Open a restaurant or some other business, work your tail off to make it work and turn a profit, then have someone step in and tell you that the 3 guys down the road arent doing so well so you have to stop that extension you were planning, or no more advertising, or worse, that you have to give those other guys who didnt run their place as well as you money to help keep them afloat.

Let me try this theory bri - I understand totally what you are saying there, but I think you might be looking at the business of baseball (and sports) a bit incorrectly.

You open a restarant and compete against others...great...you drive other restaurants out of business, you benefit....your business becomes stronger without others around to bother it.

BUT, in sports, if you drive other teams out of business, or they just never win, BASEBALL ITSELF loses...........think of baseball, or football, or hockey, as it's own business, with 32 "different locations" of that same business.......i.e "......32 different locations in the tri-county area......." for you commercial buffs.

If you think of baseball this way, then you want ALL your locations of your one BUSINESS to do well (dollar-wise), not just one or two or half the locations, while the others just stay afloat.

I don't know if that makes sense, but what the salary cap has done in football, has been to ensure the success of ALL the "locations" of the ONE BUSINESS which is football............but as you say, you kinda lose the dynasties.......unless you can find a 6th round draft choice named "Brady" every year.

Bottom-line ---- gotta admit the economics unbalanced in baseball, but that doesn't excuse MY owner from pocketing the revenue sharing money he receives, and "fudging" the accounting records to show a "loss" when we all know damn well that EVERY team in baseball makes a profit!

I think there's enough blame to go around for all the "locations"

Barndog

<< <i>There is zero sense of entitlement implied. I swear, every time this comes up I want to remind people that this IS America we live in. Last time I checked this is how things are run in every aspect of our society and business world. There are the haves and the have nots. Thats life, fair or not.

And to be honest, I think the salary cap has ruined football. Dozens upon dozens of members here speak about the glory days of the NFL....the 70's....Steelers...Cowboys.....into the 80's with the 49'ers. We will NEVER see great teams like those assembled anymore. To me that is a shame. Its a product of todays society and this notion that everyone has to have a fair chance, nobody should be left behind, blah blah. I think its all crap. You cant make it, too bad.

Open a restaurant or some other business, work your tail off to make it work and turn a profit, then have someone step in and tell you that the 3 guys down the road arent doing so well so you have to stop that extension you were planning, or no more advertising, or worse, that you have to give those other guys who didnt run their place as well as you money to help keep them afloat. >>



I hate the Yankees as much as any member of Red Sox nation, but bri2327 is correct. Baseball is THE American sport. America is not a socialist or communist society. You want a better house? Work your ass off, save your money, and buy one. You want a better team? Do whatever it takes to become a gazillionaire and buy one! Don't like your players? Buy good ones! The Yankees spend tons of money and get results for it, George has to be commended for putting his money where his mouth is. I hate the Yankees, did I mention that?

softparade

<< <i>

<< <i>And exactly what is wrong with setting high standards and being dissapointed when they arent met ? >>



In other words, the other teams in MLB don't want to win as badly as NY does? . >>



Thats right Jerry. And you can replace "NY" in your off the mark comment with "George Steinbrenner". There IS NOBODY on the planet EARTH that wants to win like George Steinbrenner does. NOBODY That is "N' "O" "B" "O" "D" "Y"

NOBODY Jerry. George Steinbrenner pours his OWN MONEY into everything Yankees and that is something NOBODY that is "N" "O" B'" "O" "D" "Y" does.

And Brian, you are right about those early to mid 80's Yankee teams. Collectivley they won more games in that time period then anybody BUT they never had the horses to challenge for a division crown.

bri2327

Dallas, I know where you are coming from, but the fact is that if 4 or 5 teams cant make it and have to fold, baseball will not suffer. The talent will increase, eliminating 100 or so players that are at the bottom rung talent wise.

To the fans of the cities that might lose their team should this happen, sorry, but maybe if they actually went to the games instead of leaving the seats 3/4 empty their team could have afforded to stick around, sign better players and be successful.

bri2327

Dan,

Even though the yanks came up short alot of those years, if baseball was structured then, as it is today, with 3 divisions and a wild card they would have made the playoffs several times.

softparade

<< <i>
BUT, in sports, if you drive other teams out of business, or they just never win, BASEBALL ITSELF loses...........think of baseball, or football, or hockey, as it's own business, with 32 "different locations" of that same business.......i.e "......32 different locations in the tri-county area......." for you commercial buffs.

>>



Dallas, just WHO has EVER been driven "out of business" in MLB? Your theory is well thought out but is far from reality. The Royals, Pirates, stc are more then well off as far a surviving goes. You don't think the FILTHY RICH ownership of the Royals can't spend if WINNING was REALLY REALLY what they wanted ????

softparade

<< <i>Dan,

Even though the yanks came up short alot of those years, if baseball was structured then, as it is today, with 3 divisions and a wild card they would have made the playoffs several times. >>



Thats fine Brian, and IF that left field fence was 20 feet deeper Bill Mazeroski would not be famous

ziggy29

<< <i>I hate the Yankees as much as any member of Red Sox nation, but bri2327 is correct. Baseball is THE American sport. America is not a socialist or communist society. You want a better house? Work your ass off, save your money, and buy one. You want a better team? Do whatever it takes to become a gazillionaire and buy one! >>

I agree with that to a point, but the problem is that not all teams and owners have equivalent markets. No matter how successful they might be, the teams in Pittsburgh or Kansas City will NEVER bring in the revenue of even the crappiest New York team. No matter how much they might want to win, they can't match Steinbrenner's payroll when George's team has ten times the revenue because of the size of his market. That's not something capitalistic; it's Darwinistic. And I think it's not in the best long-term interest of the game to have half of the teams in the game thinking they have little or no chance year after year.

Having said that, I don't like the concept of a "luxury tax" as long as cheapskate owners can play the "small market" card and pocket what the Yankees and Red Sox send them. If there is to be a luxury tax or revenue sharing, it should be REQUIRED that the cheapskate teams spend the receipts on additional payroll to try to put a better product on the field.

I don't think either a pure capitalistic/Darwinistic model or a heavily socialistic model is the answer. Sadly, I don't know what other alternatives there are.

bri2327

<< <i>

<< <i>Dan,

Even though the yanks came up short alot of those years, if baseball was structured then, as it is today, with 3 divisions and a wild card they would have made the playoffs several times. >>



Thats fine Brian, and IF that left field fence was 20 feet deeper Bill Mazeroski would not be famous >>



LOL good point !

murcerfan

oh geesh...who could have predicted this thread?

Yankees buy this... Yankees buy that...boo-hooo-hoo

well...

.. at least ALL the red sox appologists don't have thier heads buried in what's left of the sand over there.

spending wildly on the likes of .230 hitters, washed up loud mouths and "Josh the dominator"....LOL.


............blah,blah,blah ...wah,wah,wah...


edited to add...BTW I wouldn't count on the CBA that expires in Novemeber to be reinstated as it stands now.

....very likely that it takes most of the '07 season to be renegotiated and accepted..meaning NO penalty for George next year...and very likely the "Yankee penalty" clause gets contested at length for it's complete lack of legal merit.

RickyHendersonSD

If the owners insist on the luxury tax than the cheapo owners should be forced to put a good chunk of that change back into the team rather than pocketing it. After all, the purpose of the luxury tax is to better the smaller market teams, is it not? Two forces here, spend thrifts like Steinbrenner and cheapskate owners.

bri2327

Also, Dallas....not at all trying to pick a fight here, but the notion that baseball is suffering because of economic inbalance is complete hogwash. It is a claim that is so far off base, yet is always mentioned when this topic comes up. The reality is that baseball is raking in money like never before. Attendance is at an all time high. Despite all the controversies with strikes, steroids, salaries, and the like people are coming out to the parks like no other time in history. New ballparks are springing up in every city, small and large market alike. The problem....many of the newer parks are still 1/2 empty...until the Yankees come to town.

Connecticoin

Can someone remind me why the Phillies unloaded Abreau and Lidle? They might be leading the wild card race if they still had them!!

Dallas88

......just an aside from a local perspective, the Royals, and from what I can gather , the league is actually happy with the team and their attendance figures. From a "per capita" perspective, it has one of the AL's highest attendance figures. It will actually be up quite a bit from the last couple years......I doubt you'd see them be one of the "contracted" franchises in the future, so that's not really my concern for now.

Our problem is from our cheap owner and poor GM we had for 5 years.....I refuse to believe that our owners in KC are having a difficult time raising oney for the payroll!

But I hear you about the poor attendance of some teams....and I agree about your stance on "entitlement"

bri2327

<< <i>Can someone remind me why the Phillies unloaded Abreau and Lidle? They might be leading the wild card race if they still had them!! >>



Because they are such a poverty stricken small market team

Barndog

<< <i>I agree with that to a point, but the problem is that not all teams and owners have equivalent markets. No matter how successful they might be, the teams in Pittsburgh or Kansas City will NEVER bring in the revenue of even the crappiest New York team. No matter how much they might want to win, they can't match Steinbrenner's payroll when George's team has ten times the revenue because of the size of his market >>



Who cares what the baseball market brings in? If you want to be a "winner" in the US, you make the money you need to win the game you play, be it business, sports, whatever. If the KC Royals want to win a World Series sometime in the future, the owners are going to have to pony up some non-baseball-derived revenue. Want to be mediocre and have fun owning a team? Just play the game with the revenue you get from your small market.

softparade

<< <i>

Who cares what the baseball market brings in? If you want to be a "winner" in the US, you make the money you need to win the game you play, be it business, sports, whatever. If the KC Royals want to win a World Series sometime in the future, the owners are going to have to pony up some non-baseball-derived revenue. Want to be mediocre and have fun owning a team? Just play the game with the revenue you get from your small market. >>



EXACTLY. How do you think Ewing Kaufman brought forth those awesome Royal teams of the 70's and 80's? HE SPENT HIS OWN MONEY. Do we all have to be reminded that that as recent as the early 90's the Royals were in the TOP FIVE teams in payroll?

Barndog

<< <i>EXACTLY. How do you think Ewing Kaufman brought forth those awesome Royal teams of the 70's and 80's? HE SPENT HIS OWN MONEY. Do we all have to be reminded that that as recent as the early 90's the Royals were in the TOP FIVE teams in payroll? >>


That was a fun team to watch back then! They could do everything and they were built for the artificial turf. Speed, adequate pitching, putting the bat on the ball, good baseball is what it was.

Dallas88

If the KC Royals want to win a World Series sometime in the future, the owners are going to have to pony up some non-baseball-derived revenue.

Like a multimedia contract like the YES network in New York?.......last I heard they paid the Yankees 200 million for the broadcast rights.

In KC, the broadcast rights were sold for about 3-4million, if I remember correctly......gotta do it some other way, like dipping into your "private" business, as you suggest.

But still, get a better team, and you'll have more revenue.......with more revenue, you'll have a better team.....chicken and the egg......

Of course, I did suggest a hidden 1/2% "Royals tax" at all Wal-Mart stores (since the Glass family is highly involved in ownership)....all revenur derived from the tax goes directly toward player salaries......no one has gotten back to me on that one yet

bri2327

It all comes down to making excuses for poor management in my eyes.

I see guys like Axtell come on here and whine about the yankees payroll, and how a team like Seattle cant compete. It is TOTAL garbage. Seattle is one of the richest cities in America, and is actually above NY according to Forbes.

If the franchise starts out with knowledgeable,concerned ownership who has a genuine interest in putting a winning product on the field they can make it happen.

softparade

dallas, just say it man. You ALL miss Ewing Kaufman ....... what a GREAT baseball OWNER he was.

Dallas88

Dan is 100% correct about Mr K.....it is reported that near the end of his life, he lost significant dollars on the team.

I will correct one thing though ---- the Royals have been reported to have had the HIGHEST payroll in baseball as early as the early 80's, and especially in the '85 year....we know what happened then.

Of course, the disparity in payroll was nothing like it is today....but the concept is still the same.

EDIT - I miss Mr. K!!!!!

bri2327

Just one other thought....

If financial balance was truly the essence of the problem in baseball then the SINGLE WORST thing to ever hit the game was the advent of free agency. After all, without free agency all teams can draft players, sign them for the league minimum, and no matter how good they become would be able to retain them years down the road. There would be no more problems like the ones expressed about the yankees signing and stealing all the best talent. There would be no need to get the job done within the small "window" of time like many claim. You get the guys for life, or until you decide to cut them. No excuses, everyone has equal opportunity.

murcerfan

maybe ya'll can sell the team to the Maktoum family.

they can certainly outspend anybody on the planet ..and they dig winning.

last time i saw the "kid" he was chasing blondes at the spa after the Travers win...

..........K.C. might just work for him



edited to add:

how does spring training in Dubai sound?

heck, they wouldn't even need to rename the team.

softparade

In 1995 The Royals had the 5th highest payroll in the bigs. Of course even then was a different time but the fact remains that KC had EXCELLENT ownership once upon a time. Ownership that DID NOT have nearly the capital that its CURRENT ownership has.

softparade

Also, as recently as 2001 the Boston Red Sox had a IDENTICAL payroll as the Yankees. Yet a certain few SOX fans around here use the "payroll crutch" as easily as do the Pirate/Royal fan. What has happened to the POOR POOR Red SOx since then? Well they have had the SECOND highest payroll in the game since being lapped by the Yankees after 2001. No way THAT is brought up though. These select few act like they are OLD TIME St. Louis Browns fans

murcerfan

what would you expect from a "nation" founded on curses and idiots?

grote15

And to be honest, I think the salary cap has ruined football. Dozens upon dozens of members here speak about the glory days of the NFL....the 70's....Steelers...Cowboys.....into the 80's with the 49'ers

Ever hear of the Patriots? The Cowboys that won 3 Super Bowls in 3 years? The NFL has proven that good teams can become just as great as the ones you mentioned, even more so. The Cowboys won more Super Bowls in the 90s than they did in all those "glory years" of the 1970s so your argument there is invalid.

grote15

BTW, Grote.....the Marlins seem to be doing fairly well with their looooow payroll.

The marlins are barely a .500 team in a very weak NL, so I'm not sure that should be the example you want to make. You can also bet Arod's salary that those young stud pitchers will be long gone as soon as teams like the Yanks can pluck them!

As I said before, I'm not criticizing the Yankees for outspending everyone else and for being able to absorb millions of dollars in bad contracts, just that you can't ignore the inherent advantage they have in being able to do so. To argue otherwise, just ignores all the facts. But you are a Yankee fan so I can understand your defensiveness. The truth hurts.

softparade

The Cowboys were the recipients of the WORST trade in NFL history IMO. Herschel Walker. Remember that one! The Vikings just handed the Cowboys that dynasty with enough draft picks to fill out half of a team

The Patriots? Well, you are right on that one grote. They just have done a FANTASTIC job. Second to none. Top notch, and probably won't be equaled any time soon.

softparade

<< <i> As I said before, I'm not criticizing the Yankees for outspending everyone else and for being able to absorb millions of dollars in bad contracts, just that you can't ignore the inherent advantage they have in being able to do so. To argue otherwise, just ignores all the facts. But you are a Yankee fan so I can understand your defensiveness. The truth hurts. >>



Hey, NOBODY is "ignoring" the advantage the Yankees have as far as revenue goes man. This is about the endless moaning and flat out BULL$HIT that alot of these filthy rich owners could CERTAINLY compete with the Yankees if they plunked their own a$$ on the line like Geore Steinbrenner has in the past. The KC Royals ownership make George Stenbrenner look like a pimple on their a$$ when it comes to total worth man .....

grote15

Dallas, just WHO has EVER been driven "out of business" in MLB? Your theory is well thought out but is far from reality. The Royals, Pirates, stc are more then well off as far a surviving goes. You don't think the FILTHY RICH ownership of the Royals can't spend if WINNING was REALLY REALLY what they wanted ????


soft,

I agree with you there. That's why I said that revenue sharing is NOT the answer. The owners of the samller market teams that are pocketing this extra dough because of the luxury tax are much more guilty than Steinbrenner will ever be. My point is that it's unfortunate that the fans of those smaller market teams have very little to look forward to when the season starts and that is why the NFL is America's #1 sport right now.

softparade

grote,

NFL football is numero uno right now because of

1. Bars
2. Office Pools
3. Beer
4. Barbecue

I don't for one second believe footballs dominance over baseball has ANYTHING to do with revenue sharing, payroll, etc. It has EVERYTHING to do with that once a week SHOT that alot of people LOVE. Sit down, drink beer, gamble, eat your face off.

murcerfan

exactly!

maybe this whole "Yankee tax" needs to be "matching funds" for payroll...not BS operating expenses and the like.

if it comes around again in '08.