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Hypothetically-- which two dealers, if they joined forces, could dominate the numismatic marketplace
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
Some mergers work, and some don't. Putting aside general business issues or personality issues, which two dealers do you think, if they join forces, can truly dominate the numismatic marketplace (or at least a decent segment of the marketplace). For example, if Legend joined up with Mark Feld Numismatics, I think the merged firm could dominate the East coast/West coast market for very high eye appealing rarities and silver type. Such a merger would combine bravado with some good, home-spun folksy practices. Hypothetically, which two dealers (you can only pick two) would be a good match from a market point of view and why? Or is this really a hypothetical because any two coin dealers/market leaders are natural enemies, like a boa constrictor and a mongoose, and it would be impossible for them to join forces under the laws of nature?
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
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US MINT + EBAY
Or, Heritage can combine with itself.
<< <i>On second thought, it might be better to think of combining larger operations, like Blanchard and Littleton, rather than smaller boutique firms.
Or, Heritage can combine with itself.
I was thinking boutique firms, but if we want to discuss larger firms, that is fine too. Of course, Heritage could merge with anyone it wants at will (sort of like the Animal House movie and the question-- "do you mind if we dance with your dates?" There is only one answer to that question).
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
<< <i>Hi Longacre! Interesting hypothetical, but I wonder why you specify "Putting aside general business issues and personality issues"? I assume you mean "conflicts"... because the business part (the "good, home-spun, folksy practices" in your example) and the personality part (the "bravado") are both pretty important to a firm's success! >>
What I meant was overlooking legal issues that might get in the way of a merger, such as regulatory issues with larger companies, etc., etc. The hypo is open to any and all suggestions. No limits.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
C'mon, somebody had to say it.
42/92
<< <i>Russ and Marty. >>
Be careful what you wish for.
Joe
Second, for a merger to work there must be the right chemistry between to the two firms. For example if one firm’s mode of business is helpful and friendly while the other firm is rude and obnoxious, except to a small group of well-healed customers, the partnership will be doomed.
<< <i>........if one firm’s mode of business is helpful and friendly while the other firm is rude and obnoxious, except to a small group of well-healed customers, the partnership will be doomed. >>
Love it! Hypothetically speaking, of course.
Will’sProoflikes
<< <i>OK I'LL PLAY,
US MINT + EBAY >>
Not a bad answer...
<< <i>are natural enemies, like a boa constrictor and a mongoose >>
- these two animals live on different continents and never encounter each other.
<< <i>Legends & PQ Dollars >>
However, I have always been intrigued by the possible combination of Leon Hendrickson and Blanchard. Interesting wholesale combination?
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Heck they could even hire Madmarty, to run a weekly auction of moderns/no reserve lower cost stuff!
<< <i>First, I don't see enough of the coin market dominated by any pair of firms that would add up market dominance by just two firms.
Second, for a merger to work there must be the right chemistry between to the two firms. For example if one firm’s mode of business is helpful and friendly while the other firm is rude and obnoxious, except to a small group of well-healed customers, the partnership will be doomed. >>
Bill that is one of the most humerous posts I've seen on the coin forum!
<< <i>If Q.D. Bowers retires to write--a merger of ANR with Legend with Laura Sperber/Kristine Karstadt as presidents ( & who do get along fine) could dominate the high end market. Working a joint auction would not only bring in their former customer's coins, but if they really do the photos well, newer customers would be attracted away from Heritage-Superior-Goldberg to some extent. With bigger combined cashflow from auctions, a bank credit line would cut into Rare Coin Wholesalers ability to dominate super rare material---- Now that would be something to have 2 knowledgeable women dominate in this industry!
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Heck they could even hire Madmarty, to run a weekly auction of moderns/no reserve lower cost stuff!
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
There are none.
They could make their presence known but would not dominate.
They could pick a certain series and have a dramatic impact on price levels.
roadrunner
Amazon plus, the U.S. Mint.
On the web: http://www.earlyus.com
None whether read about here (some definitely thumbs down) and none on bourse as I see it as a entrepreneur business just like you can have only one head college football coach.
As far as which 2 have most combined capital could only guess. Like college football coaches (off /def playbooks) everyone in coin business has their own style, specialization, strengths on both sides of the ball (buying selling).
However, As far as op question there could exist - partnerships where you had the ultra wealthy collector / owner calling the shots (puppeteer) and the dealer handling his material (puppet). Somebody w tens of millions $ or more could probably do that - Sort of like a pro football owner / coach relationship. I have only seen one instance (here) where I have suspected that but none necessarily on bourse at shows.
US coins are not the only numismatic market - numismatics is worldwide and consists of both coins & currency - graded and raw. Further more whether a $ or $10,000 it all adds up.
The US Classic coin marketplace is already thinly traded. I don't know how more concentration of sellers would benefit pricing or transaction efficiencies.
Ok I bit on the old thread
Martin
PCGS and Heritage
Latin American Collection
I don’t know that it’s possible to dominate the coin business without killing it in the process.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Some of the old threads are a lot more interesting and thought provoking.
Bobby Hughes???
APMEX and JM Bullion
Robert L Hughes was a real mover and a shaker. Based out of Cali. He used to have a strong internet presence with high-end inventory. He did very right by me, in purchasing one of my coins for what I paid for it, when I thought that I would takes a huge loss. He still sold it for an over $2,000 profit to a top ranking Registry guy! The man was the best at moving inventory!! He was a strong buyer too!! The smoothest and fairest transaction that I have ever been a part of. What on Earth is he doing these days??? I wish him all the best!! I wish that every dealer was like him!!
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
talk to me at PAN
He has been with so many different companies over the past few years. Glad you had good transactions with him, there are those that have not based on bankruptcies. I think most get made whole but sure not smooth. Probably better he is working for others now.
@blu62vette Yes, I did hear that. I guess that I was lucky at the time.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
What is the advantage to the collector based upon these hypothetical consolidations?
Diversity is strength, imagine a merger of NGC and PCGS. We were a lot better off 20 years ago with more diversity and quality numismatic companies, one possible improvement has been cac. Teletrade was an excellent company, Spectrum, the "king of cash". Most mergers I have seen have not lead to greater consumer service and value. When companies get taken over by Ivy league hot shots who haven't put in the years of stressful work and service, companies often go downhill, some go out of business.
Were these two to merge you would have an overall loss of confidence in third party grading. This is a case where competition is an exceptionally good thing.
I think many people less familiar with Jason Carter and Carter Numismatics don't realize how big of a deal this was earlier this year. Like the Yankees acquiring Babe Ruth.
https://www.stacksbowers.com/News/Pages/PressReleases.aspx?ArticleID=stacks-bowers-and-carter-numismatics-join-forces
Brett Charville --- I work at PCGS
A BIG +1 on this.