I depise this Nomar character. He/She is a patent scammer and it cheapens our hobby to have people like this out there. We can't save the world, but we can make life difficult for some of the scammers.
<< <i>I depise this Nomar character. He/She is a patent scammer and it cheapens our hobby to have people like this out there. We can't save the world, but we can make life difficult for some of the scammers. >>
which is why i back nicovu putting some fright into this character....
It is one thing to scam on ebay (which is not ok in my book) but its another to continue the lie when you are asked specifically about a "qualifier" and tell the prospective buyer that it has no bearing on the value.
Now thats just a big bold LIE!!!!
And we dont need people like that in our hobby..
If I called Jay (Quality cards) or Steve (bbcexchange) , Levi (707), Skerbe (sss), I assure you they would not tell me that an "OC qualifier" has no bearing on a cards value, why, becuse they are honest (maybe we dont like some of their prices (not all of them))but, because they want to keep new people collecting and enjoying our hobby. so they have a larger audience to sell to. Sometimes the extra dollars just isn't worth losing your reputation over, in Nomars case it clearly is.
nicovu - You don't come here and accuse other people of being scams. My main point is I don't feel sorry for people who DON'T EVEN LOOK AT SCANS before bidding.
Also since you are a criminal defense attorney please tell me what law Nomar is breaking? Is Nomar putting up scans of PSA 9's and shipping PSA 8 (OC)? That would be fraud. Is his or her listing any more hyped than someone saying that their raw card is a PSA 9 or 10 waiting to happen? I am a big believer in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I don't need Dudley Do-Right protecting me, I would rather do it myself.
Hey more power to you if you want to waste your time chasing this one down. If you get Nomar kicked off, then I guess you can be proud of yourself. Most attorneys I know would rather find a way to stiff more clients for hours. I'm actually going to court on Tuesday for a lawsuit I filed against a local dealer that scammed a lot of people in Detroit. This scum scammed a lot of collectors, other dealers, and even a church for over $50K. I was one of the collectors he scammed and spent my own money to be the lead plantiff.
Somehow some person flipping cards on ebay to dopes that don't look at scans doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
If you really want to make a difference, why don't you have your friends in the FBI investigate the relationship between grading companies, price guides, and large national card dealers. That is something worthwhile.
ndleo, how would you like it if you bought a raw card off ebay and discovered it's been trimmed? nomar bought 3 cards that were labeled as trimmed and resold them without disclosing it for much much more than heshe paid for them. negatives were given and nomar paid for them to be removed.
It isn't a question of scale, it's a question of principle. Usually I take your position on this kind of stuff-- I figure ebay is a buyer beware environment, and if someone's going to plunk down major money on a PRO Mantle, or buy 100 lots in one of those 'hubby had a heart attack' dutch auctions, well--c'est la vie. The best education comes from experience.
But in this case the seller is stating that the cards he is selling book for the non-OC price. And that's flat out fraud (although I concede I don't know if it would be legally regarded as such). It says right there in the auction that the PSA SMR for THIS CARD is $425 (referring to the 73 Rose currently up for auction). Well, no-- the SMR for a PSA 9 OC is not $425. I think we can all agree on that. So, it's entirely plausible that someone would bid on this card thinking 'well, even though it's OC it's worth $425'.
That isn't just another hustle (like the stupid dutch auction guys); it's a complete and deliberate misrepresentation of the value of the card being sold.
ndleo, your opinion is your right. however, I think your in the minority here. nomar is blatantly misrepresenting the value and grades of the cards. while they aren't "technically" fraudulent since they post a pic, they are very deceiving.
How bout if you went to a car dealership and saw "2000 Honda Accord with low miles" painted on the window, bought it then realized you actually got a 1998 accord. you go back to the dealer feeling shafted and they say "well, in our opinion with the low miles it should be a 2000"
bottom line is, it is blatantly against ebay rules, is blatantly deceptive, and they have an outstanding history of problem transactions due to their deception.
I agree there may be bigger fish to fry, but many people are getting screwed by nomar even if they should know better.
Brian - I would be p*ssed off, neg the guy, and chalk it up to experience. If the buyer was willing to be "bought off" to remove negs, then the buyer is just as responsible for perpetuating the scam.
Boopotts - I don't like the style Nomar uses to sell cards, but I've seen much worse hype. IMHO, the scans speak for themselves and is it too much to expect a bidder to look at the scan before submitting a bid for several hundred dollars? It looks like 99%+ of the card buyers (even with the retracted negs) are happy with the purchase. Who I am or anyone else on this board to tell them otherwise?
I'm not here to support Nomar auctions. But I do buy and sell on ebay as part of my income. It is an ultra-competitive market and everyone is trying to find an edge. Nomar has found a niche that satisfies 99%+ of his/her customers, however it seems that most everyone here wants to treat Nomar like When It Was a Game.
BTW - Yes I did go to the Gibralter show. Did you notice how few Kevin Jones and Roy Williams auto rookies were there? I'm guessing that the dealers are holding back for the season.
"Boopotts - I don't like the style Nomar uses to sell cards, but I've seen much worse hype."
But he's lying about the value of the card. That's my point. If someone puts up an auction for a 1990 Pro Set Elway and says 'the beckett value for this card is $500' he's flat out not telling the truth. That has nothing to do with slick marketing-- it's just lying.
I don't have a problem with the auction title. But in the description it explicitly states that THIS CARD is worth 'x'. And it isn't.
We should hook up some time at Gibraltar. I wasn't looking too much at modern-- Jason got in some nice 1970 basketball and I was cherry picking those. Also picked up some oddball football issues, including some 1994 Tombstone Disks and a Montana Disc from some meat company.
I'll be out of town for the Mt. Clemens show, but I'll be back for the next Taylor show. PM me if you're going to be there!
Did anyone else notice the reply she gave to Axtell was exactly the same reply she gave to someone else here yesterday? Even using the "blatenly retarded" line? The more I see her do, the more it makes me sick. We can't save people (bidders) from themselves, but sitting back doing nothing when we have the knowledge to stop this is just as bad.
GG - I know I'm in the minority here, it doesn't bother me until someone accuses me of being a scam. I agree they are deceiving, but the scam is blatantly obvious. Hey I should sue the AXA deodorant makers because somehow chicks don't jump all over me when I use it.
The example you gave is not an exact analogy. If the car seller said 2000 Accord w/low miles, but it actually had 110K clearly on the odmeter and then I bought it anyways, no court in the land would agree to give my money back if I later complained that the dealer said low miles.
Like I said before, good luck getting Nomar kicked off. I'm done with this thread since it seems that no one wants to hear my opinion. I'll just stick to defending football cards.
Of course, no description of the O/C and it could be worth up to $4,000!!!!!
I say we all eamil her on every auction they list and ask if the card is O/C or not, and if it is raw, ask if it is trimmed as her prior feedback suggests it may be.
For what its worth, I just sent in every item number that the seller has auctions for these cards being hawked as as straight 8's or 9's with bogus SMR values to ebay. I agree that the false SMR amounts being listed is the kicker. Obvious deception. Just because there are 10 scammers replacing the one knocked off does not mean we should not keep trying to oust them. We all still call exterminaters to our houses to kill off pests that have intruded, even though many many many more will be there to take the place of the fallen!
boopotts is correct - the main thrust behind scam is NOT the labeling it a grades higher, but quoting a false SMR. If one didn't know the SMR, they may have a tough time deciphering the quoted SMR from the SMR of the pictured card.
It’ll be some two months before I get behind my campus IP addresses – so no vigilante brian for a while
watch the 3 negatives for the gi joes disappear because she will only give a refund if the negatives are removed.see if this happens. also,i realise there are more dishonest sellers out there than nomar. it always makes me wonder when board members come to the defense of people like nomar,and accuse the victims of being dumb...etc. kinda oflike defending a rapist because the girl was hot. very sad to see that some people feel this way.
I did some people searching through Google and found old Irena Kielb from Michigan. Irena is 77 years old!
Either the old bat has an unhealthy obsession with G.I. Joes and Off Centered sports cards OR she is merely the front for dishonest son. I am guessing the latter.
Actually, ndleo, the reason you are trying to convince everyone here that black is actually white is because of your own selfish interest: you want ebay to remain the wild west that it is because you earn some income from it. And then you feel the need to denigrate me, which is laughable because you're the only one out here who thinks that Irena's grandson is not a fraud -- and unlike you, I'm actually doing something without any possibility of renumeration. Now, who's the ambulance chaser here? I'm sorry you can't understand what the term 'mail fraud' is. But anyone who uses the mail (and that includes sending cards via mail) in connection with a fraud, has violated federal law. Perhaps your anger over having to fork over your meager few bucks to a lawyer has made you so twisted that you can't appreciate that Irena's grandson lied to me when he said that a PSA 9 OC card has the same SMR as a PSA 9 card -- however, unlike you, I believe that even the most vulnerable, the least educated of our socieity deserves protection from predators. Sorry you don't feel that way. I'm sure you'd make one helluva neighbor....
The LARGE dealers that are providing nomar with his "bait," should be put on notice that their items are being used to harm THEIR OWN future buyers. I am SURE that they would not want to be thought of as - in any manner - enabling a fraudster.
A visit from the postal inspector to nomar's abode would work wonders, too.
I don't think it's the seller's responsibility to know what a buyer does with an OC card. Can you imagine power sellers actually trying to monitor who their bidders are?
Collecting all things Pittsburgh.
Completed my Clemente Basic Registry (2007 - 2014)!
Positive transactions with oakesy25,jasoneggert,swartz1,MBMiller25,gregm13,kid4hof03,HoopGuru33,Reese3333,BPorter26,Davemri,CuseSteve
<< <i>I did some people searching through Google and found old Irena Kielb from Michigan. Irena is 77 years old!
Either the old bat has an unhealthy obsession with G.I. Joes and Off Centered sports cards OR she is merely the front for dishonest son. I am guessing the latter. >>
Probably her 16-year old grandson borrowing her credit card.
"I don't think it's the seller's responsibility to know what a buyer does with an OC card. Can you imagine power sellers actually trying to monitor who their bidders are?"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, it is NOT their "responsibility." But if they knew what is going on, they would likely block the bids. They can do that for no reason at all, and they can do that for any reason that is not illegal.
nicovu - Are you living in a fantasy world? Since you like accusing me, I'll call you out. You are not a lawyer. The reason I say this is because you haven't identified the actual fraud.
Buying cards and flipping them with hype isn't fraud. Fraud is what When It Was Game did. Fraud is Operation Bullpen. I love how you like being a tough guy by calling out mail fraud. Make up your mind. In your fantasy are you going to go to the FBI? CIA? or Post Office. Please make your mind.
And please spare me the "trying to protect" the little guy routine. These bidders are laying out hundreds of dollars, they are not some single mom spending her welfare check.
You come along and accuse a seller of fraud. I just don't see it. Is it shady? Maybe. But there are much bigger scams out there, but somehow I think you are jealous that Nomar is getting away with it.
You are all talk and are trying to be a big shot. And by the way Matlock, ever hear of contingency?
In my limited viewing of this seller's activity, especially due to knowingly selling trimmed cards without disclosure, this person should be banned from eBay.
Ndleo, I thought you weren't going to respond to this thread anymore because no one wanted to hear what you had to say? You lied, what a shock! Actually, the mail fraud section is 18 USC sec. 1341; and the fraud has been repeatedly laid out here. I"m not a lawyer? Dude, I know you're going to find this hard to believe but there are actually people that post out here that are more educated than you and make a living other than by peddling their trinkets on ebay. And the mail fraud statute clearly applies here. Irena's comment to me that a PSA 9 OC card has an SMR value equal to a PSA 9 card without the qualifier is a fraud. The use of the mails to perpetuate the fraud makes it a mail fraud; the use of telephone or wire (internet) makes it a wire fraud pursuant to sec. 1343. I know it must be fun to sound like a schmuck behind your Packard Bell computer and rail against lawyers who have taken your piddly cases over the years, but I think if you bother to troll on over to the Network 54 board you'll actually find that not only am I an attorney but some of the posters there know full well who I am. Now get off your lazy, ebay selling ass and try to clean up the community a bit. Although it may not be the biggest fraud in the world, it sitll is a significant one in which there are a lot of victims. In your little mind, only the biggest cases should be prosecuted. Again, you're either Irena himself or a guy who has ripped off people the same way. Why else could you possibly suggest that selling PSA 8 OC as PSA 9s not be considered fraud?
Can't help but notice that our friend Nomar got like 6 more negs today. I guess all that honest work isn't paying off. I also just comprehended what ndleo just wrote -- you think that "mail fraud" means making a complaint to the post office? You've been watching too much Seinfeld there, Einstein. "Mail Fraud" is a federal crime that is investigated not by the guys that deliver your mail but by the FBI and prosecuted by the various United States Attrorney's Offices throughout the country. Perhaps before you open your mouth again, you should bother to attempt to understand what you're blathering about.... Meanwhile, if everyone keeps complaining to Ebay about Nomar and he'll be gone in days is my prediction....
<< <i>Now get off your lazy, ebay selling ass and try to clean up the community a bit.
<< <i>
Well that wasn't called for. Whatever your personal beef is with whoever, saying the HAVE to monitor and intervene really isn't necessary.
Are you saying that ebay should receive 20 emails from board members on the same auction? What's that going to do? Ebay gets a complaint, they investigate it. You think they are going to act any differently if they get 20 on the same auction?
What is the website that lists all of a seller's negatives?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Look, I'm not suggesting that we all put in complaints on the same auction. He's got like a dozen of them up and they all have the same fraud, so why can't each of us complain about one? If you hadn't noticed, he's stopped putting up a PSA 8OC and claiming the SMR for a PSA 9. Now he's just putting up the SMR for a PSA 8, no qualifier. So the barrage of complaints have at the very least dropped his fraud down one level. He's gotten 7 negs in the past 24 hours. Eventually this guy will get tossed. What disappoints me is that everyone on this board other than one ebay seller, believes that this is some of the worst fraud we've seen out here -- yet the complaints are not going in fast and furiously. If you can't put in a complaint about this guy, then you should never complain about this sort of stuff happening again. And since ebay doesn't really police itself, it's up to us, the members of the ebay community, to police it ourselves.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." - Calvin "Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" - Hobbes
<< <i>nicovu - Are you living in a fantasy world? Since you like accusing me, I'll call you out. You are not a lawyer. The reason I say this is because you haven't identified the actual fraud.
<< <i>
I am sorry but I CAN ASSURE YOU he is not only an attorney....but a very, very well-known and respected one at that....and if anyone watches any television talk shows you have no doubtly seen him.
and I know this for a fact, as I have had telephone conversations, and email, and mail correspondences with him!!!
I could not let that one go "calling him out like that" sorry..I had to set the record straight..
This has been an interesting thread and I have had to do a lot of thinking.
Although, this is not stealing, as such, it is a form of larceny by trickery - i.e., that someone is taking something where the "choice" resulted from deception and thus is NOT freely made.
This may look like a benign form of behavior but wrong is wrong - to me it would be like saying - we have a lot of murders going on right now, so bank robbery isn't really that bad in comparison, so why not just let it go for now.
I have an appreciation for what ndleo is saying and respect his opinion - I do not expect him to think like me - let him have his car stolen, and be taken by some shady companies, perhaps house broken into and he will see things different IMO.
<< <i>nicovu - Are you living in a fantasy world? Since you like accusing me, I'll call you out. You are not a lawyer. >>
Son of New York mob boss John Gotti seeks bail
By LARRY NEUMEISTER Associated Press Writer
December 23, 2004, 7:45 PM EST
NEW YORK -- The son of the late mob boss John Gotti sought to be freed on $10 million bail Thursday _ a bid that a prosecutor challenged as dangerous for anyone he might not like before his racketeering trial next summer.
"This is a man who retaliates against people," Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael McGovern told U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin, who said she will rule after the holidays on the bail request by John A. "Junior" Gotti.
The judge heard lengthy bail arguments Thursday in the case, in which Gotti is accused of arranging a failed hit on radio talk show host Curtis Sliwa.
Gotti's lawyer, Jeffrey Lichtman, said that his client would agree to wear an electronic bracelet, remain at home, submit to surveillance and meet only with his lawyers.
"The community will actually be safer without Mr. Gotti in prison," Lichtman said.
At times, the judge seemed sympathetic to the comments by Gotti's lawyer. She even told prosecutors: "It actually sounds like you'd have more control of him if he's at home."
McGovern, though, said Gotti would have easy access to cellular telephones belonging to other people on which he could transmit potentially deadly messages.
The judge called McGovern's cell phone comment "rather chilling."
The prosecutor warned that Gotti had broken promises in the past when he was freed on bail, even communicating with the 16-year-old son of a former mob associate.
"This man is not shy about asking for violence," McGovern said, noting that Gotti had once discussed killing the entire Gambino crew of Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, the turncoat whose testimony doomed the defense in his father's case.
"This is a defendant who uses violence or discusses using violence against cooperating witnesses," the prosecutor said.
When the judge noted that there were as many as 10 mob turncoats aligned by prosecutors against Gotti, McGovern said, "If you hurt someone's child, you send a message to all the cooperators."
Gotti, sitting at the defense table in his prison blue uniform, seemed angered by the comment and shook his head repeatedly.
Lichtman portrayed his client as long detached from the Gambino family he allegedly once led after his father was sent to prison for life in 1992 on a racketeering conviction. The elder Gotti died in prison in 2002.
In the current case, the government has accused the younger Gotti, 40, and two soldiers with the Gambino organized crime family of conspiring to kill Sliwa because he bashed the elder Gotti on a radio show.
Sliwa, who founded the Guardian Angels crime-fighting group, was ambushed on June 19, 1992, after he hailed a cab in Manhattan.
Besides the Sliwa attack, Gotti has pleaded not guilty to two other murder conspiracies, securities fraud, extortion and loan sharking. He could face at least 25 years in prison if convicted.
Well, this is certainly getting interesting now, isn't it?
I agree strongly, by the way, with complaining to Ebay about these auctions. It's the right thing to do, and auctions that are based on deceit and deception need no defense.
eBay has been pretty slow to respond on this type of issue - i've reported nomar5378 for almost a month and they haven't responded yet - they respond much more quickly to shill bidding, authenticity disclaimer, and illegal counterfeits/replicas.
Collecting all things Pittsburgh.
Completed my Clemente Basic Registry (2007 - 2014)!
Positive transactions with oakesy25,jasoneggert,swartz1,MBMiller25,gregm13,kid4hof03,HoopGuru33,Reese3333,BPorter26,Davemri,CuseSteve
<< <i>Well, this is certainly getting interesting now, isn't it?
I agree strongly, by the way, with complaining to Ebay about these auctions. It's the right thing to do, and auctions that are based on deceit and deception need no defense. >>
Quoting bogus SMR values is what gets me. If that is not fraud then what is. The seller is misleading with the PSA 9 and PSA 8 grades in the titles at least someone with an ounce of brain matter would quickly pick this up checking out the scans. But the SMR quotes are an obvious attempt at sucking money out of the buyer. Coupled with the fact that the seller purposley buys this stuff via legit auctions and turns them around with lies shows that he/she knows exactly what is going down.
I don't think this has been covered, but could someone check the pop report on this card.
<< <i>THIS CARD IS A POP 2 (POPULATION 2). THERE ARE ONLY 2 PSA MINT 9 IN EXISTENCE WITH NO GEM MINT 10'S! AMAZING!!!!!! >>
Card # 60027707
According to that statement, at least one of the two 9s in existance is OC. If there are more than two and/or this 9 OC is not included in the two, it's false advertising which is a violation of Ebay policy.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
As long as there are people out there that don't do their due dilligance these types of auctions will continue. Shut down one and another will takes its place.
Of course he lied about that card as well. There are 2 PSA 9s, 1 PSA 9OC, which makes 3, his being by far the least valuable due to the qualifier. There are also 23 PSA 8s, all having more value than his 9OC. He also claims that "this card was graded PSA 9 by PSA." Not true. It was graded PSA 9 OC, big difference obviously.
Hmmm....the country is 3000 miles from coast to coast...and "Irena" and ndleo are 16 miles apart.... And wouldn't you know it, the single, only guy on the board that supports "Irena" is ndleo! Boy, that was a tough one to figure out!
"Hmmm....the country is 3000 miles from coast to coast...and "Irena" and ndleo are 16 miles apart.... And wouldn't you know it, the single, only guy on the board that supports "Irena" is ndleo! Boy, that was a tough one to figure out!"
Relax. You're the guy who bought one of these cards. Take responsibility for the fact that you screwed up and moved on.
I live about 14 miles from ndleo, Stingray lives in Grand Blanc (?), and a number of other board members live in Michigan as well. And none of us are Nomar.
looks like the cards weren't getting high bids so nomar opened a shill acct. 1955topps1 or this newbie to ebay just likes to overpay for oc cards1955topps1 shill?another bid by 1955topps1
<< <i>looks like the cards weren't getting high bids so nomar opened a shill acct. 1955topps1 or this newbie to ebay just likes to overpay for oc cards1955topps1 shill?another bid by 1955topps1 >>
And it appears that someone else opened a vigilante account.
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
Comments
<< <i>I depise this Nomar character. He/She is a patent scammer and it cheapens our hobby to have people like this out there. We can't save the world, but we can make life difficult for some of the scammers. >>
which is why i back nicovu putting some fright into this character....
loth
Now thats just a big bold LIE!!!!
And we dont need people like that in our hobby..
If I called Jay (Quality cards) or Steve (bbcexchange) , Levi (707), Skerbe (sss), I assure you they would not tell me that an "OC qualifier" has no bearing on a cards value, why, becuse they are honest (maybe we dont like some of their prices (not all of them))but, because they want to keep new people collecting and enjoying our hobby. so they have a larger audience to sell to. Sometimes the extra dollars just isn't worth losing your reputation over, in Nomars case it clearly is.
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Also since you are a criminal defense attorney please tell me what law Nomar is breaking? Is Nomar putting up scans of PSA 9's and shipping PSA 8 (OC)? That would be fraud. Is his or her listing any more hyped than someone saying that their raw card is a PSA 9 or 10 waiting to happen? I am a big believer in PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. I don't need Dudley Do-Right protecting me, I would rather do it myself.
Hey more power to you if you want to waste your time chasing this one down. If you get Nomar kicked off, then I guess you can be proud of yourself. Most attorneys I know would rather find a way to stiff more clients for hours. I'm actually going to court on Tuesday for a lawsuit I filed against a local dealer that scammed a lot of people in Detroit. This scum scammed a lot of collectors, other dealers, and even a church for over $50K. I was one of the collectors he scammed and spent my own money to be the lead plantiff.
Somehow some person flipping cards on ebay to dopes that don't look at scans doesn't seem like a big deal to me.
If you really want to make a difference, why don't you have your friends in the FBI investigate the relationship between grading companies, price guides, and large national card dealers. That is something worthwhile.
It isn't a question of scale, it's a question of principle. Usually I take your position on this kind of stuff-- I figure ebay is a buyer beware environment, and if someone's going to plunk down major money on a PRO Mantle, or buy 100 lots in one of those 'hubby had a heart attack' dutch auctions, well--c'est la vie. The best education comes from experience.
But in this case the seller is stating that the cards he is selling book for the non-OC price. And that's flat out fraud (although I concede I don't know if it would be legally regarded as such). It says right there in the auction that the PSA SMR for THIS CARD is $425 (referring to the
73 Rose currently up for auction). Well, no-- the SMR for a PSA 9 OC is not $425. I think we can all agree on that. So, it's entirely plausible that someone would bid on this card thinking 'well, even though it's OC it's worth $425'.
That isn't just another hustle (like the stupid dutch auction guys); it's a complete and deliberate misrepresentation of the value of the card being sold.
How bout if you went to a car dealership and saw "2000 Honda Accord with low miles" painted on the window, bought it then realized you actually got a 1998 accord. you go back to the dealer feeling shafted and they say "well, in our opinion with the low miles it should be a 2000"
bottom line is, it is blatantly against ebay rules, is blatantly deceptive, and they have an outstanding history of problem transactions due to their deception.
I agree there may be bigger fish to fry, but many people are getting screwed by nomar even if they should know better.
GG
Boopotts - I don't like the style Nomar uses to sell cards, but I've seen much worse hype. IMHO, the scans speak for themselves and is it too much to expect a bidder to look at the scan before submitting a bid for several hundred dollars? It looks like 99%+ of the card buyers (even with the retracted negs) are happy with the purchase. Who I am or anyone else on this board to tell them otherwise?
I'm not here to support Nomar auctions. But I do buy and sell on ebay as part of my income. It is an ultra-competitive market and everyone is trying to find an edge. Nomar has found a niche that satisfies 99%+ of his/her customers, however it seems that most everyone here wants to treat Nomar like When It Was a Game.
BTW - Yes I did go to the Gibralter show. Did you notice how few Kevin Jones and Roy Williams auto rookies were there? I'm guessing that the dealers are holding back for the season.
Of course the repainting isn't disclosed in the auction description.
GG
But he's lying about the value of the card. That's my point. If someone puts up an auction for a 1990 Pro Set Elway and says 'the beckett value for this card is $500' he's flat out not telling the truth. That has nothing to do with slick marketing-- it's just lying.
I don't have a problem with the auction title. But in the description it explicitly states that THIS CARD is worth 'x'. And it isn't.
We should hook up some time at Gibraltar. I wasn't looking too much at modern-- Jason got in some nice 1970 basketball and I was cherry picking those. Also picked up some oddball football issues, including some 1994 Tombstone Disks and a Montana Disc from some meat company.
I'll be out of town for the Mt. Clemens show, but I'll be back for the next Taylor show. PM me if you're going to be there!
The example you gave is not an exact analogy. If the car seller said 2000 Accord w/low miles, but it actually had 110K clearly on the odmeter and then I bought it anyways, no court in the land would agree to give my money back if I later complained that the dealer said low miles.
Like I said before, good luck getting Nomar kicked off. I'm done with this thread since it seems that no one wants to hear my opinion. I'll just stick to defending football cards.
here is the PSA 9 O/C 52 topps card she won last week for under $160.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=55917&item=5212171356&rd=1
Of course, no description of the O/C and it could be worth up to $4,000!!!!!
I say we all eamil her on every auction they list and ask if the card is O/C or not, and if it is raw, ask if it is trimmed as her prior feedback suggests it may be.
that may be kinda fun.
GG
straight 8's or 9's with bogus SMR values to ebay. I agree that the false SMR amounts being listed is the kicker. Obvious deception.
Just because there are 10 scammers replacing the one knocked off does not mean we should not keep trying to oust them. We all still call exterminaters to our houses to kill off pests that have intruded, even though many many many more will be there to take the place of the fallen!
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
We all hear what your saying, but your perceived significance of the misrepresentation differs from the majority. we'll see what ebay says.
You guys think she lists on ebay-australia as some sort of international loophole with paypal?
GG
When you advertise a PSA 7 O/C as a PSA 8, it is no different than listing a 1998 Honda as a 2000 Honda.
It’ll be some two months before I get behind my campus IP addresses – so no vigilante brian for a while
I hear your opinion, and I agree with much of it. However, I think the point I made re: incorrect SMR values tilts the scales.
Either the old bat has an unhealthy obsession with G.I. Joes and Off Centered sports cards OR she is merely the front for dishonest son. I am guessing the latter.
items are being used to harm THEIR OWN future buyers. I am SURE that they would not want
to be thought of as - in any manner - enabling a fraudster.
A visit from the postal inspector to nomar's abode would work wonders, too.
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<< <i>I did some people searching through Google and found old Irena Kielb from Michigan. Irena is 77 years old!
Either the old bat has an unhealthy obsession with G.I. Joes and Off Centered sports cards OR she is merely the front for dishonest son. I am guessing the latter. >>
Probably her 16-year old grandson borrowing her credit card.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, it is NOT their "responsibility." But if they knew what is going on, they would likely block the bids. They can do that for
no reason at all, and they can do that for any reason that is not illegal.
Buying cards and flipping them with hype isn't fraud. Fraud is what When It Was Game did. Fraud is Operation Bullpen. I love how you like being a tough guy by calling out mail fraud. Make up your mind. In your fantasy are you going to go to the FBI? CIA? or Post Office. Please make your mind.
And please spare me the "trying to protect" the little guy routine. These bidders are laying out hundreds of dollars, they are not some single mom spending her welfare check.
You come along and accuse a seller of fraud. I just don't see it. Is it shady? Maybe. But there are much bigger scams out there, but somehow I think you are jealous that Nomar is getting away with it.
You are all talk and are trying to be a big shot. And by the way Matlock, ever hear of contingency?
<< <i>Now get off your lazy, ebay selling ass and try to clean up the community a bit.
<< <i>
Well that wasn't called for. Whatever your personal beef is with whoever, saying the HAVE to monitor and intervene really isn't necessary.
Are you saying that ebay should receive 20 emails from board members on the same auction? What's that going to do? Ebay gets a complaint, they investigate it. You think they are going to act any differently if they get 20 on the same auction?
What is the website that lists all of a seller's negatives?
nomar5378 courtesy of www.toolhaus.org
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Complaint submitted for deceptive descriptions.
Caio
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning."
- Calvin
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?"
- Hobbes
<< <i>nicovu - Are you living in a fantasy world? Since you like accusing me, I'll call you out. You are not a lawyer. The reason I say this is because you haven't identified the actual fraud.
<< <i>
I am sorry but I CAN ASSURE YOU he is not only an attorney....but a very, very well-known and respected one at that....and if anyone watches any television talk shows you have no doubtly seen him.
and I know this for a fact, as I have had telephone conversations, and email, and mail correspondences with him!!!
I could not let that one go "calling him out like that" sorry..I had to set the record straight..
Link To Scanned 1952 Topps Cards Set is now 90% Complete Plus Slideshows of the 52 Set
Although, this is not stealing, as such, it is a form of larceny by trickery - i.e., that someone is taking something where the "choice" resulted from deception and thus is NOT freely made.
This may look like a benign form of behavior but wrong is wrong - to me it would be like saying - we have a lot of murders going on right now, so bank robbery isn't really that bad in comparison, so why not just let it go for now.
I have an appreciation for what ndleo is saying and respect his opinion - I do not expect him to think like me - let him have his car stolen, and be taken by some shady companies, perhaps house broken into and he will see things different IMO.
All and all
A good discussion
mike
<< <i>nicovu - Are you living in a fantasy world? Since you like accusing me, I'll call you out. You are not a lawyer. >>
Son of New York mob boss John Gotti seeks bail
By LARRY NEUMEISTER
Associated Press Writer
December 23, 2004, 7:45 PM EST
NEW YORK -- The son of the late mob boss John Gotti sought to be freed on $10 million bail Thursday _ a bid that a prosecutor challenged as dangerous for anyone he might not like before his racketeering trial next summer.
"This is a man who retaliates against people," Assistant U.S. Attorney Michael McGovern told U.S. District Judge Shira Scheindlin, who said she will rule after the holidays on the bail request by John A. "Junior" Gotti.
The judge heard lengthy bail arguments Thursday in the case, in which Gotti is accused of arranging a failed hit on radio talk show host Curtis Sliwa.
Gotti's lawyer, Jeffrey Lichtman, said that his client would agree to wear an electronic bracelet, remain at home, submit to surveillance and meet only with his lawyers.
"The community will actually be safer without Mr. Gotti in prison," Lichtman said.
At times, the judge seemed sympathetic to the comments by Gotti's lawyer. She even told prosecutors: "It actually sounds like you'd have more control of him if he's at home."
McGovern, though, said Gotti would have easy access to cellular telephones belonging to other people on which he could transmit potentially deadly messages.
The judge called McGovern's cell phone comment "rather chilling."
The prosecutor warned that Gotti had broken promises in the past when he was freed on bail, even communicating with the 16-year-old son of a former mob associate.
"This man is not shy about asking for violence," McGovern said, noting that Gotti had once discussed killing the entire Gambino crew of Salvatore "Sammy the Bull" Gravano, the turncoat whose testimony doomed the defense in his father's case.
"This is a defendant who uses violence or discusses using violence against cooperating witnesses," the prosecutor said.
When the judge noted that there were as many as 10 mob turncoats aligned by prosecutors against Gotti, McGovern said, "If you hurt someone's child, you send a message to all the cooperators."
Gotti, sitting at the defense table in his prison blue uniform, seemed angered by the comment and shook his head repeatedly.
Lichtman portrayed his client as long detached from the Gambino family he allegedly once led after his father was sent to prison for life in 1992 on a racketeering conviction. The elder Gotti died in prison in 2002.
In the current case, the government has accused the younger Gotti, 40, and two soldiers with the Gambino organized crime family of conspiring to kill Sliwa because he bashed the elder Gotti on a radio show.
Sliwa, who founded the Guardian Angels crime-fighting group, was ambushed on June 19, 1992, after he hailed a cab in Manhattan.
Besides the Sliwa attack, Gotti has pleaded not guilty to two other murder conspiracies, securities fraud, extortion and loan sharking. He could face at least 25 years in prison if convicted.
I agree strongly, by the way, with complaining to Ebay about these auctions. It's the right thing to do, and auctions that are based on deceit and deception need no defense.
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<< <i>Well, this is certainly getting interesting now, isn't it?
I agree strongly, by the way, with complaining to Ebay about these auctions. It's the right thing to do, and auctions that are based on deceit and deception need no defense. >>
Quoting bogus SMR values is what gets me. If that is not fraud then what is. The seller is misleading with the PSA 9 and PSA 8 grades in the titles at least someone with an ounce of brain matter would quickly pick this up checking out the scans. But the SMR quotes are an obvious attempt at sucking money out of the buyer. Coupled with the fact that the seller purposley buys this stuff via legit auctions and turns them around with lies shows that he/she knows exactly what is going down.
ISO 1978 Topps Baseball in NM-MT High Grade Raw 3, 100, 103, 302, 347, 376, 416, 466, 481, 487, 509, 534, 540, 554, 579, 580, 622, 642, 673, 724__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ISO 1978 O-Pee-Chee in NM-MT High Grade Raw12, 21, 29, 38, 49, 65, 69, 73, 74, 81, 95, 100, 104, 110, 115, 122, 132, 133, 135, 140, 142, 151, 153, 155, 160, 161, 167, 168, 172, 179, 181, 196, 200, 204, 210, 224, 231, 240
<< <i>THIS CARD IS A POP 2 (POPULATION 2). THERE ARE ONLY 2 PSA MINT 9 IN EXISTENCE WITH NO GEM MINT 10'S! AMAZING!!!!!! >>
Card # 60027707
According to that statement, at least one of the two 9s in existance is OC. If there are more than two and/or this 9 OC is not included in the two, it's false advertising which is a violation of Ebay policy.
Relax. You're the guy who bought one of these cards. Take responsibility for the fact that you screwed up and moved on.
I live about 14 miles from ndleo, Stingray lives in Grand Blanc (?), and a number of other board members live in Michigan as well. And none of us are Nomar.
<< <i>looks like the cards weren't getting high bids so nomar opened a shill acct. 1955topps1 or this newbie to ebay just likes to overpay for oc cards1955topps1 shill? another bid by 1955topps1 >>
And it appears that someone else opened a vigilante account.
1955topps1 bidding history
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