new 1960's football olympics sets?
nearmint
Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭
I was asked recently why the 1961 Nu-Card and 1960 Mayrose Cardinals sets aren't included in the
1960's PSA Football Olympics. (Also see this thread.) At the time we started the Olympics, there were hardly any of those sets registered, so we left them out. Now there are 10 Nu-Card sets registered, and 8 Mayrose. There are also 10 1969 Topps 4-in-1 sets registered. Is it time to include them?
I am inclined to add the Nu-Card and 4-in-1 sets now, but to omit the Mayrose, since it's small (11 cards) and there still aren't many sets registered. Any other opinions?
Mike
1960's PSA Football Olympics. (Also see this thread.) At the time we started the Olympics, there were hardly any of those sets registered, so we left them out. Now there are 10 Nu-Card sets registered, and 8 Mayrose. There are also 10 1969 Topps 4-in-1 sets registered. Is it time to include them?
I am inclined to add the Nu-Card and 4-in-1 sets now, but to omit the Mayrose, since it's small (11 cards) and there still aren't many sets registered. Any other opinions?
Mike
0
Comments
I have to agree with your assessment. The other 2 include a wide variety of teams/players.
The Mayrose do not. If I was going to collect all things 60's, this would not even be on the radar. Nu & 4n1 would be.
Loves me some shiny!
Possible inclusions with the number of cards in the set,
the type of cards, and the number of sets registered at 50 % or more completion.
Lastly, the number of criteria met that all the current sets meet.
Issue ..............................# of cards ... type ............... 50+% . # met
Minimums of the current sets . 88 ....... pro multi-team ... 3 .... 3
1960 Mayrose Franks ........... 11 ......... pro - 1 team ...... 8 ..... 1
1960 Topps CFL .................... 88 ........ Canadian pro ..... - ...... 1
1961 Topps CFL .................. 132 ........ Canadian pro ..... - ...... 1
1961 Packers Lake to Lake ... 36 ........ pro - 1 team ...... - ...... 0
1961 Nu-Card ....................... 80 ........ college ............... 7 ..... 1
1962 Topps CFL .................. 169 ........ Canadian pro ..... - ..... 1
1963 Stancraft ...................... 36 ........ pro multi-team ... 2 ..... 1
1963 Topps CFL .................... 88 ........ Canadian pro ..... 2 ..... 1
1964 Topps CFL .................... 88 ........ Canadian pro ..... 1 ..... 1
1965 Topps CFL .................. 132 ........ Canadian pro ..... 2 ..... 1
1968 Topps Stand-Ups ......... 22 ........ pro multi-team ... 5 ..... 2
1969 Topps Four in Ones ...... 66 ........ pro multi-team ... 5 ..... 2
So I'd say the 1969 Topps Four in Ones and 1968 Topps Stand-Ups make the most sense,
but at only 22 cards the 1968 Stand-Ups seem questionable.
Why not include all of the above, but weight them at 1/2 the mainstream sets ?
The 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranks of the current sets really need to be weighted anyway.
We can't let Davalillo hold the top spot just because he has all those third place sets.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Firstly, I would like to say thank you for taking on this headache. You do a first class job and it adds to the enjoyment that I get from the hobby.
Weighting - I still don't think these should be in any way weighted. The Olympics that we are patterning after does not. Since all the sets are not created equal, no weighting really makes sense. I can assure you that I have spent more time and energy to finish second on 64 Topps than first in 63 Fleer. My 65 Philly set (currently 3rd) is just as nice or better than my 67 Topps or 64 Topps (both currently 2nd). Some of those thirds are as hard or harder to get than some of those firsts. Since there is such a variety of challenges, I like it the way it is presented now, the user can choose to do with the information as they see fit.
Set size - Just because it is small dos not mean it is not deserving. I have certainly seen more of almost every other issue listed than Mayrose. Small but very challenging. I would also challenge that this is for fun and enjoyment and even if it is our sandbox, we should not exclude anyones interests from the game, to me they are all the same and we each take the same pride in them. Lastly, since this is PSA registry inspired, how silly would it be for PSA to send someone a set registry award and have us not recognize the accomplishment?
Inclusion - While I collect many of these sets and enjoy them as much or more than many of the others (ie. I am starting a 4 in 1 set but don't collect the regular '69 issue. How screwed up is that?) they are not equal and will never be. The first sets we included are all "U.S. nationally issed NFL player sets of 88 cards or more". None of these others are. Becuase of that, they will never command the collecting interest, price, partcipation in the registery, competition, or the likes. I think the should be listed, but on a seperate list with seperate totals not trying to include them with the others via some weighting method or the like.
Listing - While I am all for the seperate list, Wolf brings up good data on when to include and when not to. After much thought, I fall back to the PSA set standard. If PSA thinks it is worthy of an award, who are we to penalize? Does it make sense that if someone has put together a killer set to not recognize it even if no one else has yet made the effort? I would suggest that we include all the sets. The whole darned list. And only award the ficticious position, point, medal whatever, to a set that has reached the 75% level that PSA recognizes as qualifying for an award. There will be a lot of blanks but it is what it is. Maybe it will motivate so folks to hurry up and play.
Fuzz
I agree about not attempting to weight the sets. The real Olympic tables don't distinguish between a medal in the decathlon and one in table tennis. I also like not weighting the medals themselves. The sheer number of medals someone has is a great indicator of the breadth of his collection, and any attempt to decide what a gold is worth vs. silver or bronze is subject to argument. Besides, if I have to do any math higher than counting, I won't want to maintain the tables at all. Best to keep it simple.
I do think I'll omit the requirement to have a set 75% completed. For some sets--the Lake to Lake set comes to mind--finding the cards at all is a challenge. If half the set is good enough for a silver, that's fine with me. Considering how competitive this bunch is, any undeserving medal holders will be passed in short order.
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
I think you have struck a great compromise between Wolf and I and I am proud to through my weight behind it. And in my case that is a lot of weight. I always wanted the body of an athlete. I had just hoped that it wouldn't be William Perry. Yep, I'm built for Football ........... cards. This will work out in my favor anyway because many of those obscure sets I have are no where near 75%. Guys like Wolfbear, Skinsfan and Fab Frank keep my money more focused than I would like it to be. Your point is right on that the "low hanging fruit" will be picked quickly.
thanks for the kind words and the work to keep this idea alive.
Fuzz
In the modern day spirit of 'inclusiveness',
I guess I'll have to embrace the idea that all are accepted and all are equal.
Besides, the more the merrier !
Just want to add another thank you to Mike
for the fantastic website work he does for us football guys.
Now if he would just get busy printing up our certificates on gold, silver, and bronze paper.
No need to mail the certs out on a monthly basis, I think quarterly would be just fine.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Nice.
Loves me some shiny!
Why do you think I go by "Fabfrank"?
I'm living with lots of denial
I'm not sure what you are denying but it is certainly not the quality of the Philly sets that you have. I actually believe that you score more medal points out of those four sets than anyone else does. No shame in that. I did unblock the 65 Philly set this morning and update so you can see where I am at.
Mike,
The mystery is solved this morning as there are several name changes and some updates on some sets. I have blacked mine out accordingly.
Fuzz
I got into the Philly sets a few years ago upon reading an article about them in Beckett Vintage Football. At the same time I discovered the PSA Registry. My original intention was to build the set in PSA 7, maybe 8. When I saw that some 9's were going for slightly above the price of 8's, I raised my goals. 9's now are pretty expensive, but I should have my 65 set completed (with some upgrades), by the end of next week.
Regardless of the set rating, the best parts about building these sets has been the cards themselves and meeting/dealing with all the great guys on these boards.
Congrats on the 65 set as it is deserving of the top spot. Could you please read the next article about golf cards or boxing cards or something that I don't plan on collecting? This may be a good time to push 67's as that seems to be a little down at the moment (and another set that I have not really started). 9's in the 65 set are pretty expensive right now. You just sniped me on two a few days ago. There are another couple of guys that seem to come and go but haven't listed sets yet. Does your comment "Completed" mean that you will not be upgrading these sets after you finish as that is how I read it ?
I had always assumed you were a trumpet player and nicknamed after Mr. Fabulous from the Blues Brothers. Since that was taken, FabFrank made perfect since.
What is next after the Phillys sets all get Philled out ?? Whatever it is, best of luck and I look forward to seeing you on some of these other sets. Fleer is smaller sets with different players but the same era. Early 60's Topps are not to painful and the 62 and the 63 add the extra colored border chanllenge.
Fuzz
Once my sets are in 8 I will try to upgrade to PSA 9, but at the right price. I'm currently working on the 57 set also, but won't pay over $100 for a 9. Thus I have no 9's in my posssesion.
As for the Fabfrank name, let's just say I'm on the heavy side. Replace the "b" with a "t" and you'll see why I'm in 'Denial"
The other sets that I've starter on are 48 Leaf and Bowman, 52 Bowman Large and 50 Bowman.
The 60's crew is safe fo now
I had thought about several of the sets you are moving on but have postponed them for a bit. I think Mike has influenced me a bit more recently on the direction of 60's inserts and the odball. Much better value for the $ and a lot more fun. I noticed that you got me on 70 Kelloggs and moved into second, guess I will have to watch out for those in a while as well. Just doesn't seem to be getting any easier. Wouldn't happen to have a 70K Alworth in 9 extra lying around would you?
Mike,
I know that I should be patient, that you have a real life, but I don't. But I will admit that I have checked your medal page a couple times a day lately to see if there have been any changes. Also your ebay links work much better and faster than when I actually use eBay. Any idea as to why? After thinking a bit about the completion standard, I like your way better and I am willing to play. I think it will bring a lot of activity on to some sets that have none. Could be good for business as well and that won't hurt. I checked and only 13 of the 33 possible sets are even listed at this point. I'll see what I can do about that. Should much for some exciting first few months on those.
Fuzz
I can't explain why the eBay searches from the Olympics page are faster than eBay's normal search. I think eBay's normal search is just messed up, actually. Sometimes when I do a search on, say, "1960 Fleer PSA Woodard", it goes off into never-never land and I have to hit the big red X.
I'll make the Olympics update this week, promise.
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
I can wait, it isn't that big of a deal. Take your time.
I wasn't so much interested in an update (especially one where I take another step backwards) but was interested in seeing what you do with the oddball and insert sets.
I did request a 67 Pennants set today so that should make 14 of the 33 that will be listed. I will have to dig around and see if there are any others I can request or whether I just have to submit a few.
Thanks agin,
Fuzz
Surprises to me:
- There are a ton of people with just one medal.
- Ebay searches for some sets don't turn up any cards at all
- Wang!
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Or just think of it as its own separate competition - maybe the Winter Olympics.
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
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there with the big boys. It may not be totally fair to put my CFL
sets in the same category as the mainstream sets. Im not putting
my collection down, but I know how hard and expensive it is to
put together some of the 1960's football sets. But, as long as there
is a 1960's Football Olympics and oddball sets are included, then
I will gladly participate. This could be good or bad for me, as the
more popular the CFL sets get, the more competition there will be.
Fuzz has outbid me on some recent cards on Ebay. Oh well,
let the games begin!
I had fun looking at some of the sets I didn't know about or didn't know much about, so I think others will, too. So far I like the decision to include the less-collected sets. It even prompted me to register a new set of my own: some 1961 Packers Lake to Lake cards I've been setting aside. At 19% I'm in 4th!
Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
There's 53 cards in the 1963 Stancraft set (54 if you count both jokers), and I heard a rumor that the guy with the gold medal around his neck for that set ... has been getting a bunch of PSA 9's and 10's graded lately for the 1962 Fleers.
Mike
Great to have you join us here. I do have some appreciation for just what a pain in the tush those CFL cards can be and I know that you have an absolute top notch collection. Now, could you please collect Hockey for a while or something? Didn't realize I had even stepped on your toes on eBay. Sorry about that but I know you understand. DSL has had some great 71 & 72 OPC cards of late (all's I got was one lousy 10) and some one has been getting me there. But that will change. Anyway, welcome and please join in, I'm sure you will add to the group.
Mike,
Thank you very much for the work. I was hoping to see seperate lists as I mentioned as in a few months as more sets are added, this table is going to get awfully busy. My estimate is another ten sets added by summer. But those are some fun sets and some guys have put in some great effort and deserve some extra recognition. Jeremy Linker's 68 Standup is a personal favorite. Okay, I will start piling in some of my stuff as well that is not in there yet and I will start getting packages ready to get in the mail to PSA to light this candle. Congrats on the 4th in Lake to Lake, I think that puts you a little ahead of me on that one. So I guess I will say out loud, If anybody has any high grade 60's oddball or inserts, feel free to let me know. Thanks again for the effort.
Fuzz
But before that, with no respect to Jeremy's #2 set, I meant to reference Mike Stahlman's #1 for 68 Stand ups. They are both top notch high end efforts. And they both kick the snot out of what I have. Pops in 7 and above are just non-existant. So to build a set this well is truly an effort to applaud.
Maybe tomorrow will be better when I am not toting GS cookies all over town.
Fuzz
Anyway, it's nice to see some recognition for the lesser known sets. As others have mentioned ... they can be a bear to find in highgrade, and a lot of fun to complete.
Of course, at the same token .... having a "Fear the Oddball Fuzz Club" doesn't really excite me too much.
Mike
shouldabeena10 - we only use 36 Stancrafts for our weekly 'Go Fish' get-together.
We found that once they're slabbed, it's too hard to shuffle a full 54 card Stancraft deck.
Just to avoid further confusion of the various Mikes in the future
could we refer to NearMint Mike as 'The regular Mike' and that other Mike as 'Odd-Ball Mike' ?
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>Just to avoid further confusion of the various Mikes in the future, could we refer to NearMint Mike as 'The regular Mike' and that other Mike as 'Odd-Ball Mike' ? >>
Works for me!
Regular Mike
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Truer words may have never been spoken.
I think the Fear club should be MOSH over in that necks of the woods, at least for the moment.
Nice to have you back. Haven't heard smack talk for a while.
9's and 10's you share, wouldn't want to share any info would you?
Fuzz
FEAR TO FUZZ FTZ WILL ALWAYS LIVE.
MASH THE MOSH NOW THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WATCH THE WOLF
WHO CARES ABOUT COULDABEEN A CRANE DISK
PURE MINT NEAR MINT
100 COUNT DAV
MORE MOJO MAGIC
WANG BANGS KANOOKS
FRANKS FOUR FINE PHILLYS
BUT FLUSH WITH A POCKET FULL OF CASH WATCH OUT FOR
THE BEAST IN THE EAST I SHALL RETURN
But on the olympics now that i have fallen from grace , not even in the top ten.
But never fear i am in training for the 2008 fall games
A late entry how could i forget
JOSTING WITH JASP
I'd like to add a whole new catagory in memory of you and your old set.
We'll call it: Art's 1,966 Topp Typo's"
Wolf,
I always knew you weren't playing with a full deck!
PS - Ask "Normal Mike T" about the great deal I just gave him on the beautiful Mint Fleer dupes I had.
Hey Fuzz,
I've been lulled into an LTS mode lately and have been skirting my CU duties, I'll try and come over here more often and throw a little gas on the fire. I also haven't been messing with the 60's football much lately .... I've kind of fallen into a Bowman, Leaf, Chicle's, and HOF Rookies trap ... and I haven't watched the 60's sets like I used too. Although I did see you get "schooled" by MOSH on that PSA 9 auction the other day.
It makes me feel lucky that I haven't been playing in the 60's pool lately!
Odd-Ball Mike T2
Cant' wait to see you back in the game full time. Hard to not give a lot of credit to Phranks Phour Phine Phillys because he is a top notch competitor and has some great stuff. But just got to go with the Wang Bangs Canucks. These things are tough to find and he continually comes up with ones that I never see. It does not seem to be a matter of throwing $'s at it but honestly just out hustling the competition. I have probably been one of the few to watch the empire grow. Glad to see him getting some recognition.
Now Oddball,
I assume that you are referencing the Gilchrist auction. I won that one if you recall. Paid a lot but not as much as I have for others. When Skinsfan was pressing, 3+ for a one point common happened with regualrity. So 4- for a 1.5 isn't out of line with peak prices. Not even close to my max bid, in fact I had put in two bids that would have won that one. "Schooled"?, not this time, but more painful than I had hoped.
The heartburn I see coming out of the situation is now from the fixed price list dealers. Commons are now being listed for 3+ under the assumption that people will pay that. They won't. MOSH will. I might. But nobody seems to want to at this point so it screws it up for awhile till they find a year from now they can't sell the card they have. Now on 67's, he is Killing everybody in site. Now over 250 for commons where previous highs had been 150 or so. 67's are much, much easier than 66's so we'll just let him go. Have been adding to mine on the cheap and closing the gap a bit. Easier to do from second. Going to send Skinsfan and some of that cash in you Stancraft direction if your not careful.
Fuzz
Thanks for the props, you are correct, my collection was built thru
hard work more than dollars. My bother is Teemu, and he has the finest Hockey Card Collection on the Registry. He would drag me to
the Sportscard Expo in Toronto every year. Since I'm a Football collector from Ohio, I needed something to look for at a show that is 90% Hockey. I bought some complete sets in nice condition and started submitting them to PSA. I'd say that 95% of my CFL collection I submitted myself. Since then, I scoure thru binders at the
National and every other show I go to. Also, I was usually the only guy to bid on ebay (although I'm sure that will change now).
I probably have 15 sets on the Registry, but I concentrate on the
Canadian and Oddball because they are tougher to find. I can
complete the mainstream sets any time with ebay.
have your seen the activity in the 68 FB set???
The king takes off the 68 crown and says.."who will have it?"
frenzy.
As they say, "He's not long for the throne."
Loves me some shiny!
Vintage Football Card Gallery
You're the marathon man of the 68s - taking your time but will win in the end.
Jack
To get this new thing started, I have listed four new sets four sixties FB tonite. Three would qualify for medal contention and one is a work in progress. I also updated three other sets to keep the records a little more current.
I also have requested a 67 Krazy pennants set (the FB insert from Topps for the year) and a 58 Topps CFL set. I have a few FB bucks in for grading now and will request that set upon completion. I have a few others that are sufficent to start set requests lying on the shelf but am waiting for a bulk submission to send them in. Any help in requesting sets on these other 60's FB sets to fill out the roster would be appreciated.
Just for the record, I could add a couple of more non-60's sets, but I am seeing enough of Wang's backside on sets as is, no need to add a few more today. But maybe, just maybe, if they get the 58's up fast enough, I can be in the lead there for a day or two. That would be one out of seven. This guy is kickin' my hinny......... and they say MOSH is tough.
Fuzz
PS. Would consider any PSA 7's or above from 60's FB sets that are NOT currently on the registry. Please let me know what might be available.
I am just a little fish now swimming with the big sharks and knocking heads with the likes of fuzz for 68 stand ups spells trouble.
Is there no place safe to hide
And what the heck was all that bidding about anyway. The guy was a freakin' Bronco for Christ's sake. Ain't like anybody wants those in their collection !
Look, currently I am not collecting several sets so there is plenty of room to move around. 68 and 69 Topps are always safe (I have one card between the two sets). I hear that Mint State has a ton of 68's for sale. 76 Crane Discs are always a favorite. Also having nothing going on in 65T, 64P, 60F or 62T at the moment so we should not run into each other there.
Submission note: I bought some 'just out of the pack" 62 T FB bucks from a dealer that had them consigned by a guy that had just cracked most of a box. After having received them, I believe that they were truly just opened. I thought I would send a few in under the 60's special. Corners were sharp but centering was marginal but these have very few graded and few graded high. After they return I will try to get that set listed for the registry. Got a call that they have to be on a seperate invoice like tall boys even though it is not listed. So has a future note. Save yourself the time and trouble and send them seperate.
Fuzz
Fuzz- you missed your chance to corner the market on this obscure 1961 insert set.
Probably more up shouldabeena10's alley anyway, since he seems to specialize in collecting ugly, unpopular issues.
Also, a note to nearmint, SKINSFAN and whoever else it may concern :
Lay off the 1963 Topps auctions. Take your crazy bids to another set cause we're already full up with crazy !
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Vintage Football Card Gallery
What is it with this whine ? Sounds like an invitation to come on in. I am nearing 50% on that set, maybe it's a good time to finish it up?
Fuzz
Fuzz - not really so much a whine as an observation.
Here's the results of two 1963 Topps auctions that ended today :
Thought I might have a chance at this PSA 9 common , but it went for $ 265.
So, I thought no problem I'll just bid a little more on this PSA 9 common , but it went for $ 393 !
Just a word to the wise that building this set, at this time, is not for the faint of heart.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
Think ill play somewhere else
Fuzz
Forgot to mention some of the 61 Topps insanity that has been seen lately.
Dropped out of a chase for a Dallas Cowboys team card last week at about $225. Dropped out tonight after a Baltimore Colts team card above 150. These were both 8's ! Low pop. OK. But come on this is a bit crazy. There are not 8 nearly complete sets and I think that was the about the pop. Picked up a 1 of 9 tonight on that set for less than 30. Take your 63 guys back would you please?
Fuzz
Cataloging all those pesky, unlisted 1963 Topps football color variations Updated 2/13/05
Vintage Football Card Gallery
Thanks for maintaining and updating the standings Mike.
Even though I'm slowly sinking into the sunset, it's still fun to look at the list.
Now excuse me while I go drink myself into a stupor ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"