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ICG Easy on Grades? I don't think so... *Pics Added*

KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
So, I decided to try this theory again. Partly because I'm curious and partly cause ICG came to the Local Ft. Lauderdale show and offered to return submissions at the FUN show 4 days later for no additional fee (Plus FUN discount of 20% - $9.60 a coin)... Here are my results...

COIN CRACKED FROM ICG GRADE
1888 NWFY Dime ICCS F15 F15
1898 NWFY Half ICCS F15 F15
1883 w/cents nickel NGC AU 50 EF40
1912-S nickel NGC VG8 VG8
1909-S cent ANACS VF35 VF20
1940-S quarter ANACS MS64 MS64
1962 nickel Raw IMO MS65FS MS64
1974-D nickel Raw IMO MS66FS MS64FS
1883 dime NGC MS63 MS63
1891 morgan $ PCGS clacker MS63 MS64!!! image

The Morgan made my day. I knew it was at least a 4 for sure. I'm pretty positive PCGS would cross it. A couple of the others were a kick in the teeth. I sure didn't see any overgrading going on with this group. I guess I need to send them some Silver Eagles... I've added some pic links below...
"Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
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Comments

  • SmittysSmittys Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    ICG does great on circulated coins, on High end MS and Proof they're
    a little loose.
    Just my opinion, and I have used them.

    Smitty
    https://www.ebay.com/str/christyscoins
  • itsnotjustmeitsnotjustme Posts: 8,777 ✭✭✭
    What is NWFY?

    You are happy with a PCGS 63 in a ICG 64 holder?

    ANACS is known to be easy, particularly on circulated coins, so the downgrade there should be no surprise, and the break even on the ANACS MS64 doesn't make ICG comparable to PCGS.
    Give Blood (Red Bags) & Platelets (Yellow Bags)!
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,148 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why would you cross that nickel out of NGC? Lower grade, and less respected holder...
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭
    NWFY is New Foundland. I'm very happy with the bump to a 64 ICG or otherwise, the price jump from 63 to 64 is like $300+, I tried to cross the 1883 nickel to get a higher grade and or to see what they would do with it. I want to know is ICG as bad as some people here on this board say they are...
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>ICG does great on circulated coins, on High end MS and Proof they're
    a little loose. >>



    Ditto, except that a "little" loose is a gross understatement.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm very happy with the bump to a 64 ICG or otherwise, the price jump from 63 to 64 is like $300+ >>



    Not when you're going from a PCGS holder to an ICG holder.

    Russ, NCNE
    eBay consignment sales | | Collectibles from Resco CCC
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I'm very happy with the bump to a 64 ICG or otherwise, the price jump from 63 to 64 is like $300+ >>

    Not when you're going from a PCGS holder to an ICG holder. Russ, NCNE >>



    Russ, $140 bid in 63, $475 in 64. When I go to sell it I'm starting at $475 and going down from there. Even If I discount it 25% for being ICG plastic I would still be at a $200 upside. Any less than that and I'll send it to PCGS for crossover and I'm confident it will.
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • SmittysSmittys Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭
    why not croosover to PCGS 1st and save time and money??
    https://www.ebay.com/str/christyscoins
  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017 ✭


    << <i>why not croosover to PCGS 1st and save time and money?? >>



    Thats a smart idea.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭


    << <i>why not croosover to PCGS 1st and save time and money?? >>



    Extra slabbing fee and the wait... If I can discount it a bit and sell it now I have more capital to buy with...
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • BigEBigE Posts: 6,949 ✭✭✭
    Kurt, sell it on E-Bay as "pcgs and icg certified", it would be interesting to see what it bringsimage-------------BigE
    I'm glad I am a Tree
  • 100proof1957100proof1957 Posts: 6,231 ✭
    If PCGS wont cross my NGC stuff at one grade lower,whats gonna happen to that ICG Morg ?
    image
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭


    << <i>Kurt, sell it on E-Bay as "pcgs and icg certified", it would be interesting to see what it bringsimage-------------BigE >>



    Right, I could also say it's one of the finest known, and that if you rub it a genie will appear and grant your every wish... image
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • AgMeAgMe Posts: 881
    Hello all,

    Note on slab

    ex-PCGS, ex-ICG, PCGS MS64



    (theme from an older thread)image

    -g
    I listen to your voice like it was music, [ y o u ' r e ] the song I want to know.

    image

    I'd give you the world, just because...

    Speak to me of loved ones, favorite places and things, loves lost and gained, tears shed for joy and sorrow, of when I see the sparkle in your eye ...
    and the blackness when the dream dies, of lovers, fools, adventurers and kings while I sip my wine and contemplate the Chi.
  • morgannut2morgannut2 Posts: 4,293 ✭
    It would be interesting if ANACS graded the circulated coins also. I suspect thet'd be very close as well. The big price jump on the '91 Morgan is for a PCGS holder. I doubt the number 64 will entice anyone to pay more than 63 money for the ICG grade. Perhaps it's a good negotiating tactic though, if it works.
    morgannut2
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,523 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For what it's worth, I have yet to see an ICG graded uncirculated classic coin that I thought was properly graded & would not consider buying an ICG slabbed coin. Those I've seen got a bump for luster and eye appeal, and not enough was taken from the coin's grade due to contact marks, strike and problems with the coin's surfaces.

    The typical case in point was a Seated Half in a 5 holder which had the luster to support the grade, but far too many contact marks & should IMO have been in a 3 holder.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    Can you post pictures of your 09S up here? I have one in for ICG grading right now (including and 08S, as well). Thanks.
  • ziggy29ziggy29 Posts: 18,668 ✭✭✭


    << <i>For what it's worth, I have yet to see an ICG graded uncirculated classic coin that I thought was properly graded & would not consider buying an ICG slabbed coin. Those I've seen got a bump for luster and eye appeal, and not enough was taken from the coin's grade due to contact marks, strike and problems with the coin's surfaces. >>

    The funny thing is, in my experience, ICG AU-58s tend to be the nicest and most true to the grade among ALL TPGs, and that includes the exalted Kool-Aid vendor. I've seen very few ICG 58s that weren't AU-62 caliber coins.
  • pharmerpharmer Posts: 8,355 ✭
    Kurt, I understand why you did this, and I think it's great you shared your results, both positive and negative. I also think that what you would get for selling the morgan never crossed your mind, it was the info you desired.

    I think ICG has respect, but is the current dog to kick. The slab is quite nice, the people there are experienced, and they are innovative. As I mentioned in a thread yesterday, some of the best monster toned Morgans are appearing in ICG slabs in the major auctions the last two months. Why? Got me, but the coins are kick a$$ and in a nice slab. I keep thinking they will be cheaper too, but they are getting the bucks commensurate with coins in the other two big name slabs.

    The grading problems go without saying on the ms70 stuff, it's ridiculous. Maybe they will catch on.
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

    Apropos of the coin posse/aka caca: "The longer he spoke of his honor, the tighter I held to my purse."

    image
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Kurt, I have an ICG MS 66 1939-S Washington I will happily sell to you for 63 money. However its been body bagged by PCGS, NGC and NCS. So much for buying their stuff sight unseen.
  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017 ✭
    What did NCS bag it for? NCS slabs problem coins! I haven't seen a NCS bag before.

    Cameron Kiefer
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Cam, bagged because of a planchet flaw.

    Cam I will sell you the bag for $39 bucks.image
  • PrethenPrethen Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭
    Post some pic's of this bad baby...



    << <i>Kurt, I have an ICG MS 66 1939-S Washington I will happily sell to you for 63 money. However its been body bagged by PCGS, NGC and NCS. So much for buying their stuff sight unseen. >>

  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Prethen I will do so tonight I am at work.
  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017 ✭


    << <i>Cam, bagged because of a planchet flaw.

    Cam I will sell you the bag for $39 bucks.image >>



    Wierd. I would think they slab it "UNC details Planchet Flaw"

    Sorry, I don't colelct bodybagsimage

    Cameron Kiefer
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Cam they would have it was an 1839 quarter.
  • monstermanmonsterman Posts: 797
    >>>If PCGS wont cross my NGC stuff at one grade lower,whats gonna happen to that ICG Morg ?>>

    if ngc wont cross my pcgs stuff ....EVEN WHEN IT IS FROM THE FINEST PCGS REGISTRY SET EVER ( according to the propagnda )......


    the fact is there are many great coins in icg...ngc...and pcgs holders.....and the people who know how to grade have a distinct advantage over those who buy the plastic not the coin of only one services coins.... as they can buy ALL the coins where as clones cant or dont...that being said as a buyer of the coin not the plastic there is no way ( all other things being equal ) that anyone that doesnt can possibly have an end result that can compete


    i have bought icg and recieved a 2 point pop at pcgs..thats right a 66 to a 68 pop 1....i have bought a ngc 66 and it went into a pcgs 68 pop 1....

    conclusion...buy the coin not the plastic

    monsterman
    my goal is to find the monsters and i go where they are but i sometimes miss some.... so if you have any and want to sell IM THE BUYER FOR THEM!!!

    out of rockets ...out of bullets...switching to harsh language
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭
    I've made an attempt here to take some shots of a few of these coins. I just Blew 2 hours with the photography and getting them down to below the 50k file size. Also it's about my third time I've used this new Panasonic DMC FZ20 camera so, give me a break here ok?
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Here is the ICG MS66 39-S washingtion. Notice the planchet flaw just west of georges nose.

    image
  • clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615 ✭
    They bagged it for that? Dang, most war nicks have planchet flaws of some type. I have had way worse graded.
  • IrishMikeIrishMike Posts: 7,737 ✭✭✭
    Not only did they bag it for that Heritage conveniently didn't mention it in their auction description either. image
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭
    Hard to believe they bagged it for that. I'd pay 63 money for that if I needed one. Put it on Ebay mention the flaw as being tiny and start it at 63 money. Someone else wants this coin. -Kurt-
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,964 ✭✭✭✭✭
    PCGS bagged THAT coin for a MINT CAUSED planchet flaw which is THAT MINOR????image

    I've seen 1932-S quarters with a really large and noticable marks on them that made me question how the coin got in the holder. Yet they have brass to bag that coin? image
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • dorkkarldorkkarl Posts: 12,691 ✭✭✭
    based on kurthorn's digi-pics of the coins stuck in icg plastic, i cannot find much fault w/ the grades icg assigned, except MAYBE the 1883 dime, which looks borderline for 63.

    i've said it before, & as someone has absolutely NO PLASTIC BIAS whatsoever, that icg , ngc, pcgs are very similar in their grading, except that i don't know about coins in super-duper high grades since i don't collect 'em.

    K S
  • kieferscoinskieferscoins Posts: 10,017 ✭
    Here is a crude counterfeit in an ICG holder

    Cameron Kiefer
  • KurtHornKurtHorn Posts: 1,382 ✭
    Looks like a good seller to have stopped the auction. image
    "Don't bother just to be better than your contemporaries or predecessors. Try to be better than yourself." - William Faulkner
    NoEbayAuctionsForNow
  • LeeGLeeG Posts: 12,162 ✭
    image TPG's and Human Beings make mistakes, even PCGS. Lee

    PCGS Every Certify A Counterfeit Coin?

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