What's your experience crossing PCGS or NGC graded coins over to ICG?

dan1ecu · January 17, 2005 4:00AM

ICG will cross other third party graded coins to their own holders if ICG grades the coin higher. I don't think either PCGS or NGC will agree to cross only in the event of an upgrade.

Anyway, have any of you sent PCGS or NGC graded coins to ICG in hopes of receiving a higher grade on the slab? How did it work out?

Dan

MadMarty · January 17, 2005 4:09AM

Why would you want to do that?

dthigpen · January 17, 2005 4:10AM

<< Why would you want to do that? >>

Ditto.

dan1ecu · January 17, 2005 4:10AM

Just wondering if ICG generally grades a point higher than the others.

Dan

dthigpen · January 17, 2005 4:11AM

<< Just wondering if ICG generally grades a point higher than the others.

Dan >>

Yes, they generally do, if not more.

Barry · January 17, 2005 4:11AM

<< Why would you want to do that? >>

That was my first thought, too.

BAJJERFAN · January 17, 2005 4:11AM

No experience as I have never had a reason to want do so.

Cameonut · January 17, 2005 4:13AM

It would never occur to me to waste money at ICG. Who cares about a higher grade at ICG? It would be the same coin in a lower quality piece of plastic, but you will get less money at ICG.

I have never done it.

GAT · January 17, 2005 4:15AM

I have had 3 ICG Morgans cross in grade to PCGS. No ICG grade inflation on those coins.

RYK · January 17, 2005 4:18AM

Ditto.
Ditto.

rainbowroosie · January 17, 2005 4:19AM

<< Why would you want to do that? >>

Ditto.

Makes zero sense to do this.

RGL · January 17, 2005 4:20AM

You're just giving away money if you cross NGC/PCGS to ICG, even if they grade higher. Don't do it. ICG is not a respected service.

braddick · January 17, 2005 5:18AM

I once crossed a PCGS coin into PCI. PCI placed "ex-pcgs" on the insert. I wish I still had that coin. I thought that was kind of cool.

techeff · January 17, 2005 5:24AM

PCI placed "ex-pcgs" on the insert.

TommyType · January 17, 2005 5:26AM

If you would have re-submitted to PCGS, whould it have crossed as "ex-pci, ex-pcgs"?

XpipedreamR · January 17, 2005 5:28AM

I don't think either PCGS or NGC will agree to cross only in the event of an upgrade.

flaminio · January 17, 2005 6:01AM

While I don't share the derision towards ICG has some of the other posters here, I do agree that it makes little sense crossing a PCGS or NGC coin into an ICG holder.

That said, I have crossed PCGS coins into ANACS holders, but only because I'm building my entire set in ANACS holders, and got tired of waiting for an appropriately holdered coin to show up.

So, do whatever you want. It's your coin, and your collection.

CardsFan · January 17, 2005 6:36AM

<< Why would you want to do that? >>

You like the intercept holders...

kieferscoins · January 17, 2005 6:51AM

I have never crossed a NGC or PCGS into an ICG slab.

Cameron Kiefer

BillJones · January 17, 2005 9:47AM

Crossing PCGS and NGC coins to ICG???

That's like trading a brand new Cadillac for a brand new Chevy. Why would you do it?

Even if ICG gives the coin a higher grade, it won't mean anything.

bgrice · January 17, 2005 10:40AM

Anyone had any luck cracking an ICG coin and having NGC or PCGS grade it higher? Just curious. I bought a 1920 walker graded MS-61 and NGC sent it back MS-62. I bought it at a semi-discount of $125 figuring it might come back MS60, but made a decent profit selling it on Ebay for $435.

nankraut · January 17, 2005 10:51AM

What madmarty said:

mrearlygold · January 17, 2005 10:58AM

Huh?

Tom

CoastGuard · January 17, 2005 11:01AM

Wrong on that, ICG is a very well-respected grader. How can they not be? One of their best men was a leader at PCGS! So one of PCGS best guys is now at ICG. Plus, ICG is usually always rated #1 with sight unseen bid levels by Greysheet Coin Dealer Newsletter. Your negativity is not validated by the facts. Your welcome to your viscious opinion but it is entirely too negative for us to consider or believe.

KlectorKid · January 17, 2005 11:25AM

If ICG is #1 than arent there more high dollar coins in their slabs...

Edited to add: Why do they always bring up that CDN article?

zkcoins · January 17, 2005 11:32AM

Agreed agreed, I would never cross an Pcgs or ngc to icg. You would definitely be throwing money away.
Zach

zkcoins · January 17, 2005 11:36AM

And ultimately it is the public who decides which company is #1. Since PCGS and NGC get a premium on most coins, as per my experience, I would agree that they are #1 and #2, respectively. How can ICG possibly be #1?

Zach

CoastGuard · January 17, 2005 12:03PM

To answer your question, ICG doesn't have as many slabs because they are not owned by mega super size coin dealers feeding them huge amounts of inventory to grade. The owners must send the coins to the grading service they partially own. Of course, they should feather their own nest. I respect PCGS and NGC both. But, being #1 for sight unseen bid levels by the statistical analysis done at Coin Dealer Newsletter far outweighs a few negative words by a very few individuals here (who probably never give ICG a chance). I did not say ICG is #1 for marketing, salesmanship, or hype. But if you study their concept, read their contract, read their guarantee, understand their neutrality, then some respect is due.

greymars · January 17, 2005 3:59PM

I would never cross my Morgans over from PCGS to ICG...look at the American Silver Eagles that are sold on tv
PCGS has never graded a MS70 that I know of, and yet ICG grades MS70 consistently
Also ICG does not have a Coin Registry...

Just my opinon...at least I can build a dual Registry set of Morgans in PCGS and NGC...whereas NGC does not crossover
into the PCGS coin Registry

Gary

BillJones · January 17, 2005 11:16PM

I have sold some a few nice coins in ICG holders, but they were never worth more than $500 or so. All services are inconsistent to one extent or another, but it has been my observation that ICG is MORE INCONSISTENT than the two leaders. Some of their products leave you scratching your head as to how they came up with the grade, when in other instances you can see coins that are perfectly OK. They just slab too many coins that are "off" to be among the top services.

Prethen · January 17, 2005 11:30PM

ICG is an amazing service. They deserve a lot more respect than many of you are giving them here. I have been very happy with my ICG coins. In fact, I think they've been maybe a little too conservative. I will agree that on the very high-grade/modern coin market their grading seems a little suspect but I don't know enough about grading those type of coins to say anything concrete (like how many moderns do they get versus the other services, etc.).

kieferscoins · January 17, 2005 11:32PM

Have you tried selling any of your wonderful ICG slabs prethen?

Cameron Kiefer

BillJones · January 18, 2005 12:00AM

Yes, sadly you will be very happy with your ICG coins until it comes time to sell them. THEN the rubber will meet the road. I pay less for ICG coins, and I sell them for less. If the coin is worth cracking out for a cross-over or upgrade I'll do it, BUT it has to make economic sense. Usually it makes more sense to buy and sell these coins at lower levels.

Prethen · January 18, 2005 12:48AM

Here's one, that I really like; you can't much more DMPL'y than this (the mirrors are utterly amazing; I wish the cheek had a bit more frost though): [The scan was a little screwed up by Heritage...sorry]

kieferscoins · January 18, 2005 12:49AM

Have you tried selling any of your wonderful ICG slabs prethen?

Cameron Kiefer

Prethen · January 18, 2005 12:53AM

Nope...I like 'em too much to unload. What type of stuff have you had a problem selling slabbed by ICG? Their classic U.S. coin grading seems to be quite tight.

<< Have you tried selling any of your wonderful ICG slabs prethen?

Cameron Kiefer >>

flaminio · January 18, 2005 2:40AM

<< I would never cross my Morgans over from PCGS to ICG...look at the American Silver Eagles that are sold on tv
PCGS has never graded a MS70 that I know of, and yet ICG grades MS70 consistently >>

So does NGC, fwiw...

<< Also ICG does not have a Coin Registry... >>

Frankly, I would score this a point in ICG's favor.

<< Just my opinon...at least I can build a dual Registry set of Morgans in PCGS and NGC...whereas NGC does not crossover into the PCGS coin Registry >>

How's the Kool-Aid tasting these days?

seanq · January 18, 2005 2:50AM

<< But, being #1 for sight unseen bid levels by the statistical analysis done at Coin Dealer Newsletter far outweighs a few negative words by a very few individuals here (who probably never give ICG a chance). >>

I guess the bid levels start to diverge when you can see the coins, then?

ICG 69DCAM sells for $9 on Teletrade, same coin in PCGS 69DCAM sells for $850

Sean Reynolds

moosesr · January 18, 2005 3:02AM

I also don't share the derision towards ICG some of the other posters here do. Even if ICG does overgrade as some have said, maybe the price difference for a particular coin at one or two grades higher in an ICG holder would make it worthwhile to make the crossover. I think it could be worthwhile to check the Heritage and Teletrade auction archives on a particular coin you were thinking about crossing from PCGS or NGC.

Recently, I have been looking at circulated Barber dimes and have seen several ICG coins that look undergraded when compared to similar date NGC and PCGS coins, so maybe in other cases it would make sense crossing a ICG coin over to a PCGS or NGC holder. As it has been said many times on this Forum it should be the coin, not the holder that is being bought or sold.

Charlie

Prethen · January 18, 2005 3:06AM

I agree that ICG seems to have done a disservice to itself by not being as tight as PCGS/NGC on high grade moderns. It's too bad. They will "no grade" a problem coin in a heartbeat and only charge you $5 if that occurs. Their track record on classic coins is impeccable, hence the high buying percentages given in CDN.

I hope they're paying attention to all this negative publicity on they're modern grading. I do have one hypothesis as to why they're getting nailed in this area. I truly believe that they are making an earnest effort to accurate grade these high-grade moderns. So many people see this as a company to go for to get their high-grade moderns in a slab that they get inundated with the stuff. If they do a great job at weeding through all the coins they feel are not 69/70 quality and just slab the bunch that still reach that pinnacle, they still may have a mountain of those coins in their slabs. Now, the slabs go back to the public. Out of all those 69's and 70's that go back into collector's hands, there some that will stand out as perhaps not belonging in that group and hence a bad cross-grade experience. I realize this seems like a poor excuse, but I know that people at ICG are very professional and very serious about what they do. JP Martin is no slouch...he knows his stuff. The President of the company normally doesn't do grading all the time but he's the finalizer on a lot of the stuff.

That said....yes, if I wanted to buy a 69/70 coin, at this time, I would only opt for NGC/PCGS. For classic coins, any of the top four, as long as I like the coin (NOT the holder)!

AgMe · January 18, 2005 3:09AM

Hello all,

(time for me to enter the fray

) If you go on e-bay and search for ike sets, you'll see a number of PCGS PR69 DCAMS with limted/uneven frosting, but with so many coins to grade, there's bound to be some mistakes (coins that just go from show to show).

I like PCGS "because they're conservative", but does that really mean they're being "too conservative"???

(I don't know)

It reminds me of a conversation about MS70 (for a particular coin): "Well we just don't give that grade" (for any reason).

I think with all slabbed coins, you really have to see it in hand to make a final judgement, as there is so much wiggle room within a grade (and eye appeal etc.).

I have a problem with ANACS coins in general (too loose I think), but I always wonder about all of the MS70 coins coming out of ICG.

Either way, I like PCGS, NGC & ICG, but I still want to see the coin before final purchase.

On price (for common coins), I've seen PCGS, ANACS, ICG, NGC bring similar money (heck I even know some old school collectors that don't even recognize ANY of the TPG services) (they pay "raw" money regardless).

In a way, that's how I think of PCGS, you're really buying a coin 1 grade higher (or so) than what's on the label (but in the end, you're still paying for it).

Buy the coin, not the slab.

-g

flaminio · January 18, 2005 4:07AM

<< That said....yes, if I wanted to buy a 69/70 coin, at this time, I would only opt for NGC/PCGS. >>

I wouldn't even go with NGC. Way too loose in 69s and 70s, if you ask me -- for example, compare their pops of MS ASEs. For 69/70 moderns, I would only go with PCGS or ANACS.

dorkkarl · January 18, 2005 5:06AM

just about the whole 1st 2 pages of this thread were the totally predicitable "why would you do that" questions.

K S

CoastGuard · January 18, 2005 6:20AM

NGC and PCGS do their share of modern coin very, very high grades too! In Monday's 17 January USA TODAY newspaper there is a huge full page ad for NGC selling MS69 Silver Eagles for $24.95 per coin plus shipping and handling!
Might I also mention Coin World story 12/20/04 p.48 that details the Proof 2001-W American Eagle graded Proof 70 DC by PCGS. And there is the 1990-W American Eagle gold $50 grading Proof 70 DC by PCGS!
I've said it before, perhaps with modern equipment, special dies, fragile handling, just perhaps the U.S. Mint does manufacture MS 69 and MS 70 pieces. But, I agree with some of you I do twinge when seeing the flawless MS70 grades. But, if the coin is ACTUALLY flawless, is it wrong to name it so? I don't disagree with some retail dealers here who say they can't always get as much for an ICG slab but it is sure is mysterious when I try to buy an ICG slab for less the price suddenly is way up there and the dealer does not offer me a discount!

Another reason for fewer ICG slabs in the marketplace is regular collectors seem to like the ICG product and consistent grading and regular collectors are not turning over their coins as much. They tend to keep their coins longer and the coins are not for sale as often. Text

AgMe · January 18, 2005 6:24AM

<< 
Another reason for fewer ICG slabs in the marketplace is regular collectors seem to like the ICG product and consistent grading and regular collectors are not turning over their coins as much. They tend to keep their coins longer and the coins are not for sale as often. >>

I really think there is something to say about this statement... when you ask your typical specialized collector "how often do you sell your coins?", they give you that "are you crazy look" & say "never".

-g

What's your experience crossing PCGS or NGC graded coins over to ICG?

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