Trusting your own self is always a good play; if you have questions...do some research, ask some people, read up a little. One of the questions you will resolve soon is how much liquidity do you want. Say, you were buying 5 or 10 year treasuries...not much liquidity but a known quantity that isn't going to vary much, kind of like sitting in a tub of warm water until you prune. Also, you can do realestate or raw land but the same liquidity issues. If you want a lot of liquidity say like equities, indexes, or cash/cd's then you are out chasing the same pig as everyone else. I agree with the 5% metals comment that you don't gain much w/5% metals...there is a whole thing going on with metals. People want to talk you out of them, they want you to keep your holdings down, they say they are too volitile, there are mountains of reasons they will give you to keep you out of metal and I think it's all a scam. The investment companies want you in paper...duh? When you want to sell gold, you have no trouble selling it at all, people want it, people will come to your house and give you money for it, everybody poo poo's your gold but when you want to sell it, there they are with cash buks and when I see all of this I just go...hummmmmmm. I have never ever seen any dealer refuse to buy gold...ever! So, I'm heavy in metal and I'm going to keep it that way. Next time you go to a coin show, take an eagle with you and see how long it takes you to convert that 1/2oz into a hand full of bens, not a check, not a piece of paper or a certificate...BENS!
If you want to take things a step further and don't have liquidity issues, why not sought after gold coins? The mid grade rare material is constantly in demand, good times or bad times. I like putting my money here there because they appreciate. Try and buy a nice au 50-58 C or D or any cool O/CC material, gold anything $1-$20 coin. One thing for darn sure, they are not going to get cheaper and you are going to have to wait for a nice one. Want a heraldic early eagle? Meet with some collector in this area and talk with them about it. Go through Heritage auction archives and follow a few of them for the last 6 or 8 years and see what they have done. And, the most fun part of it is it is FUN!!!
Edited to add: Cash is always good too!!!
So, everyone has an opinion, particularly on this bug thread but that's how I see it but once again...it is just another opinion. DYODD
The guys pumping metals on every TV station want your money, too.
They are the same pump and dump monkeys that put the peasants into gold and silver in 1980. That worked out for the pumpers, not so much for the peasants.
The ONE thing I know for sure: You will never go broke taking a profit.
It is likely about time to take some metal profits, for those who have not already done so.
...............
I run and invest in pawn shops. Pledges are at a 30-year high. Redemptions are at a 35-year low. Cash is king; soon to be a god. >>
You will see 1000 ads telling you to buy stock for every one that tells you to buy gold. The companies that sell gold charge small fees(both % and gross amounts) and the companies that sell stocks charge huge fees. Who owns the huge ornate buildings in every city, gold firms or brokerage firms? Who owns all the private jets, island paradises, 10 million dollar Manhattan apartments, country estates, Bentleys, etc? Owners of gold firms? No, it is the owners and employees of the brokerage and investment banker firms. These people are the real rip-off artists. I wonder if you are one of them, considering how you defend them and attack gold sellerd.
When gold is below $500 next year, there will be a fresh understanding of the "value" of the dollar.
Maybe when crude is $30/bbl. and when the Midwest hasn't had their corn crop wiped out, and when the Treasury stops handing out $75 Billion a week to the banking cartel, and when the war in Iraq is financed by Iraqi oil, and when Obama decides NOT to offer free health care, and, and, and..........
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Coynclector, leave 65% where it is. I also started out at around 15% into metals and have slowly shifted up to a number somewhat resembling yours. Fortunately my 401K has done ok the last few years by being into gold stocks as well. Until the Dow/Gold ratio gets under 5 this metal's game has additional legs. Wait until at least the FED has fixed something in the economy. All indicators point the wrong way to jump back in to the same equities that did well from 1982-2001. We are in the 7th to 9th year of a commodities boom that typically runs for 15+ years. It will take that long to wipe away the excesses of the past 20-25 year boom in equities. The commodities boom won't end early because the FED or govt wishes it so.
Storm888, are you willing to take wagers that $500 and lower gold will not be hit next year?? I suspect you'll have a long line of takers on this forum. And if you can double up your money in one year, what stock is going to beat that? Let us know. We're happy to contribute to your retirement fund. PS...I'm a gold holder and rarely sell anything from my core physical positions. Stocks are for selling when the time is right.....physical metals are for long term holding as they are the only true money out there as long as king fiat reigns.
The ONE thing I know for sure: You will never go broke taking a profit.
Jesse Livermore would disagree in that you should be taking longer term positions and riding from the bottom towards the top. Making 10% on a trade is sort of useless when you could make 100% by riding the trend out. That has happened with me on a number of great coins where I settled for 15-30% in the short term and saw those coins rise to +100% a year later. And that small gain was certainly not put back into something better (ie you already had the winning horse and you traded it for a bunch of also-rans). Worse yet, you have to pay taxes on those smaller but earlier gains. Many times standing pat and riding it out longer is a far better strategy.
And you'll never do well taking that little profit way too early either. I made that mistake in the stock market in 1997 when I basically got out at DOW 7500 because it seemed nuts to me (so don't ever take my advice on when to sell generic variety 401K stock funds). Much money was made after 1997 without me on board. If you're getting out of metals now you're leaving at least 2-1/2 to 3 years too early.
It's not the investments that you profit on that make you broke (and even a 1% gain is a "profit"). But rather it's the "investments" that you get hammered on from the start that make you broke. For most people in coins it works much the same way. For every winner you have at say 50%, you'll have several losers worth much more than that. Yet most will dump that winner way too soon and hang on to those losers way too long.
"...Storm888, are you willing to take wagers that $500 and lower gold will not be hit next year??..."
////////////////////////////////////////////////
My money is already in play and my wagers are being placed. I am building a GLD/SLV short position.
From my previous posts on this thread you can see that I sold GLD/SLV closer to the top than we are now. (I dumped UNG a little too early, and kept some USO through today.)
Those were all longterm holdings.
I am getting ready to short USO; and, I took a tiny position in DUG, today.
I always have a little physical metal, but not more than I can easily carry on the run. That is the only time it has much advantage over my ETFs.
"Fiat" is what the grocer accepts. When that changes, I will use some other kind of "money."
I have been hearing "the money is going to fail" for 40-years. I keep making it and spending it; no problems, yet.
Since I was deep in the 1980-mix, I know what happens to folks who think metals "are a permanent storehouse of value." I dumped at the right time then, and I am pretty sure I am right this time, too.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
$1 QUADRILLION in derivatives is why today is so much different than 1980 when the OTC-D market didn't hardly exist. Most of the inflation and monetary problems of today are solidly linked to the D's mess, of which we are still in the infancy phase of accountability.
My money is already in play and my wagers are being placed. I am building a GLD/SLV short position.
OK, I take that as a no to a wager. Not even 14,000 DOW vs $1000 gold? In any case, $1200 gold is coming before $500.
I have been hearing "the money is going to fail" for 40-years. I keep making it and spending it; no problems, yet.
It has taken herculean efforts by the FED over the past 40 years to keep this game afloat (not to mention selling thousands of tons of Central Bank gold to keep the fiat faith alive). To suggest that the last 40 yrs automatically suggests a similar 40 yrs to come is quite a leap of faith. 37 years in the pure fiat experiment is a very short period of time. But all fiat experiments have ended in failure. In 1982 we began the biggest credit binge (ie debt creation) of all time, and now it's world wide. It will take more than $890 gold, $17 silver, and 1-2% interest rates to fix the problem. I don't know how long it will take to fix our problems, but I'm certain it's not going to be in 2008 or by 2009. $500 gold is not impossible......but it would merely be a stepping stone on the way to $1500+. Clearly the FED has lots of ammo left, whether contrived or real and can lead the charge to suppress prices whenever they wish. 20% interest rates in the early 1980's brought inflation to its knees and strengthened the dollar. Now how far are we away from that point right now considering inflation is just getting started?
Just today I listened to Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal state on the radio that penalties needed to be made for those speculating on oil, gas and food futures. Clearly he must know that the major banks and brokers (GS, JPM, Citi, Merrill, etc...and ultimately the owners of the FED banks) are the very people behind the speculation and no doubt some of the biggest profiteers in commodities trading. From the manipulated Goldman Sachs commodity index to JPM's absorption of BSC, those screaming for accountability only need to look at their own elected "blind" politicians and the financial cartels for the real crooks. This is why the game is not ending any time soon. In fact the FED has been talking with over a dozen financial institutions who have a big stake in the $60 TRILL OTC-D swaps market...the next big axe to fall. In essence they are looking for ways to bail out all these guys...at our expense. These pros pump and dump on their own trading accounts but still advise JP6 to hold on for the longterm...as better times are always around the corner. After all, stocks have ALWAYS done well over any 30-50 year period (not 20 yrs as 1929-1954 and 1966-1987 will attest). Unfortunately what they don't say is that during the past 30 or so years it's taken a 13X increase in the money supply and a 100X increase in debt to make this miracle happen. Do we have another 13X M3 increase in our future or the ability to take derivatives to $100 QUADRILLION to "prosper" over the next 30 yrs? Based on previous history, something different is happening in the 2001-2013 period.
And an interesting read from Ted Butler. For those of you who think they are investing in silver in gold with SLV and GLD. The loopholes are really beginning to show. Own the PHYSICAL metal!!
Good article, thanks Tincup. Here was one paragraph I liked. Interesting conclusion that the Comex shorts have possibly moved into SLV to hide the fact that they can't make delivery promptly on 60 MILL ounces of silver.
But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold.
It's starting to become more clear why we are seeing the discrepancy between the price of 'paper' Comex silver, and the price of getting the real silver out there. How much longer can these games be allowed to go on??
"...Just today I listened to Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal state on the radio that penalties needed to be made for those speculating on oil, gas and food futures."
GS' call for $200 oil, while their own desks have the largest short-positions in USO, is all I need to know about what is about to happen.
The CFTC will act, soon. I do not know exactly when, but I know it has to happen soon. The new regs will call for 100% transparency in all trades. When it is revealed that the shorts are ALL of the pumpers, the peasants will flee and their money will be gone forever.
Traders are now operating under the same regs that brought us ENE. A fake "energy crisis" delivered ENE's profits, AND caused its implosion. This "energy crisis" is of the same making; unlimited supply, limited demand........ disguised by "pretend" buyers in the pits.
Last week, less than 9% of NYME oil-paper was traded by end-users; the rest was ALL speculators getting ready for the whipsaw. Once they step back, their shorts will make them SUPER RICH, as the bagholding "public" gets slaughtered.
When oil is back at $70/$80, gold will be no where near its latest highs. It will happen before the election. Even the Saudis say that $60 oil is "about the right price."
If you lay the GLD/SLV charts over the USO charts from Jan/ Feb/Mar/April, you can see that the metals cannot hold up against a decline in oil prices. GLD/SLV couldn't hold their highs when oil was MUCH cheaper than it is today; the next BIG dip in oil will tank GLD/SLV.
AGAIN: I am NOT against holding some gold and silver. I am certainly FOR trying to trade it profitably. I am against holding BIG physical positions through thick/thin. The time to buy/hold has passed. I will wait for it to return and take another ride up; and, in the meantime, I will profit on the decline.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
The CFTC will act, soon. I do not know exactly when, but I know it has to happen soon. The new regs will call for 100% transparency in all trades. When it is revealed that the shorts are ALL of the pumpers, the peasants will flee and their money will be gone forever.
Doesn't this contradict the short position you are building in SLV/GLD? Geepers, if they ever required transparency in all trades, wouldn't that blow your SLV short position from here to Mars? (reference the Ted Butler article)
I'll keep my physical bullion and continue to add to it, thanks. My retirement is too important to leave it up to a "trading strategy."
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
"Doesn't this contradict the short position you are building in SLV/GLD? Geepers, if they ever required transparency in all trades, wouldn't that blow your SLV short position from here to Mars?"
////////////////////////////////////////////
"Transparency" is about the record of a position being "viewable" by regulators, and/or by those charged with abiding by regulations when facilitating the trading of that position. (The CFTC will likely tell the NYME and other exchanges, "Know your customer, and let us look at the docs everyday." For this to happen, Congress will/may have to act. Maybe the exchanges will "volunteer" a little, to avoid a more harsh remedy.)
Currently, there is no routine obligation on the part of an exchange member to reveal his principals.
So, no; transparency has no ill effect on legitimate short positions.
Being "short" is just as legitimate a trade as is being "long."
As far as I can determine, GLD/SLV/USO/UNG have never been on the "naked short list." In fact, MOST of the folks who were short physical gold, were long GLD as soon as that ETF began trading.
"Transparency" will cause the immediate tanking of oil prices. That fall will take the metals down with it.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
There can't be 100% transparency in trades as this is one of the key tenets (ie tricks) of how the large banks and brokers make money. The CFTC is under the thumb of the FED, Treasury, GS, JPM, and the boys. And those guys have the politicians sewn up. While some regulations will no doubt come about to skewer J6P, it will likely do little to police the trading game that the banks and brokers currently enjoy. In the meantine derivatives continue to grow at an alarming rate. I don't see them cutting their own throats. As long as they have TRILLIONs in derivatives debt to pay off, the last thing that will happen is to take away their "short" position trading profits that help cover some of the losses from D's.
Let's face it, the excess monetary policies approved by congress and implemented by the FED has forced even J6P to take refuge in short or long positions in various commodities (oil, energy, metals, agri-products, land, etc). To punish J6P from seeking safety from absurd monetary policies created by the very congress that intends to regulate their way out of the mess is irony at its best. Pushing oil back down might have an immediate effect on gold, but it's not something that will last past July-August, assuming some trading restrictions come out by that time. Oddly, you won't see any regs on naked short selling silver and gold anytime soon. You'd better hope for those regs to come soon because gold is in a converging pennant formation that is about to break upwards just as the last several pennants have.
"...You'd better hope for those regs to come soon because gold is in a converging pennant formation that is about to break upwards just as the last several pennants have."
That is why I am only shorting on significant strength. And, I only take little bites each time. I well know the price can go up.
Many folks think "short positions" are in/out trades. They are - can be - LONGTERM investments. I have remained short for as long as three-years on numerous stocks, before I covered.
MANY longs don't bail each time their position goes south; shorts often play it the same way, and simply short more at higher levels.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i>It's starting to become more clear why we are seeing the discrepancy between the price of 'paper' Comex silver, and the price of getting the real silver out there. How much longer can these games be allowed to go on?? >>
i have been watching this for some time ask the same question.
i think the manipulation is done to just keep $$$ investment from going "dead" in the eyes of the markets....ie the buy and accumulate crowd in physical gold and silver don't trade the stuff in and out, hourly, daily, weekly or monthly. maybe that's naive, i dunno
again i look at physical as a hedge to what i see as a possible tsunami of inflation.
From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service. __________________
<< <i>From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service. __________________ >>
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going.
<< <i>From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service. __________________ >>
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going. >>
That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with global warming. Global warming is defined as the yearly increase of the the average temperature of the entire earth, not temperature variations/deviations of selected locations.
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going. >>
That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with global warming. Global warming is defined as the yearly increase of the the average temperature of the entire earth, not temperature variations/deviations of selected locations. >>
And I reject the thought that people and their doings are responsible for global warming, climate change or whatever it's called. How egotistical to think we are so powerful.
The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require.
<< <i>From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service. __________________ >>
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going. >>
That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with global warming. Global warming is defined as the yearly increase of the the average temperature of the entire earth, not temperature variations/deviations of selected locations. >>
At Yosemite Natl Park, there is a kiosk that shows how the impressive valleys were caused by glaciation. Over the past 10 million years, the glaciers have come and gone. Why did they come, and why did they go? Is it humans fault? There is also a graph of global temps over that time period. The moving average is downward sloping. That means that the earth has been cooling, not warming over time.
Just as it may not be "fair" to compare the weather at my house to the global environment, it is not fair to compare the last 100 years to the actual truth of what has been going on for eons.
<< <i> But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold. >>
this does not even make sense.
a person buys stock in an ETF then procedes to short them (sell). another person comes alongs and buys them.
Person A no longer has any ETF stock and person B does. Who gives a rat's butt what person A does at this point. If they want the shares back they have to buy them. The amount of silver or gold should not change in the fund due to this transaction.
Now I do not know if the ETF has the right amount of metal for each share, but lets assume they do. Shorting the ETF shares will not affect this in the least. Someone owns the shares and someone else does not!!! It is not like new shares were created in the process and the transaction is somehow fishy.
can someone please explain to me what I am missing here?
also please note the person who wrote up that text has an obvious bias to want people to be bullish about buying physical silver. heck just look at the domain name and at the end. call us for all your PM needs.
his basic theme to the whole write up was the delay in the ETF in depositing the silver when issuing new shares. As long as the ETF actually follows through with purchasing the metal it is not an issue. Of course the writer being a conspiracy nut will see what they wish to see...
but i still would like to discuss my previous post more. thanks. i must be missing something or the writer is simply a nut job.
<< <i>The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require. >>
What he said.
Isn't funny/sad that these uber-liberals and globalists want us to be in pain. They want us to suffer and believe that BIG BROTHER will take care of us. Obama and his Brain Trust want us to pay $4+ in gas...drilling has no hope he said today. Congress can't even handle the obscene windfall profits (correct reference, not oil) so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart.
On my car I have two bumper stickers (that I made online) that say "No Obama-Nation, Vote 2008" and the looks I get are priceless. I was thinking about selling the rest in Denver at the convention in August but now I feel that I may fear for my life or my car may fear for its tires.
"...so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart." For the first time in my life, I'm proud of this thread.
It is quite obvious that the average citizen is not reasonable. The fact that anyone would even give Gore a second paragraph in any article is fair evidence of lack of reason. I'm sure his scientific credentials give us all good reason to have abundant confidence in his prognostications and urgency...oh wait, he doesn't have any scientific credentials. But, you have to admit, he has come up with a cool gig with this global warming thing. No second paragraph...
Yeah, wait till those Mississippi flood waters get to N.O., but they have at least a weeks notice so we'll see what happens! You know, it was FEMA's fault that those levees broke in Iowa because Bush hates N.O.. Any chance that Louisiana will send any volunteers or aid to Iowa?
<< <i>The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require. >>
What he said.
Isn't funny/sad that these uber-liberals and globalists want us to be in pain. They want us to suffer and believe that BIG BROTHER will take care of us. Obama and his Brain Trust want us to pay $4+ in gas...drilling has no hope he said today. Congress can't even handle the obscene windfall profits (correct reference, not oil) so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart.
On my car I have two bumper stickers (that I made online) that say "No Obama-Nation, Vote 2008" and the looks I get are priceless. I was thinking about selling the rest in Denver at the convention in August but now I feel that I may fear for my life or my car may fear for its tires.
Ren >>
My understanding is that all or most of the Alaskan oil from the Prudhoe Bay area is being exported to Japan. Why did we go thru the hassle of putting in the pipeline if we weren't going to use the oil ourselves?
<< <i> But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold. >>
this does not even make sense.
a person buys stock in an ETF then procedes to short them (sell). another person comes alongs and buys them.
Person A no longer has any ETF stock and person B does. Who gives a rat's butt what person A does at this point. If they want the shares back they have to buy them. The amount of silver or gold should not change in the fund due to this transaction.
Now I do not know if the ETF has the right amount of metal for each share, but lets assume they do. Shorting the ETF shares will not affect this in the least. Someone owns the shares and someone else does not!!! It is not like new shares were created in the process and the transaction is somehow fishy.
can someone please explain to me what I am missing here? >>
You're not really "missing" anything, and the metal-pumper is either purposely misrepresenting the process, or he doen't know what he is talking about. His description of the process is nonsense.
BUT, this statement..........
"Person A no longer has any ETF stock and person B does. Who gives a rat's butt what person A does at this point. If they want the shares back they have to buy them. The amount of silver or gold should not change in the fund due to this transaction."
......is not an accurate description of the process.
When I short an ETF, I have, through a broker, "borrowed" the shares from the true owner. That loan to me does NOT obviate the "ownership" rights of the person who is loaning the stock. The borrowed shares will continue to show in the "lender's" account as "shares held." If the ETF was one that paid a dividend, I would be responsible for paying that dividend to the "owner/lender," until I covered the short by buying shares to cover those I had borrowed.
Contrary to what the metal-propagandist offers, the potential problems do NOT lay in the ETF manager's failing to fund the underlying holding (metals). The managers are regulated and their depository is subject to inspection/review at ALL times. Short and long positions against the inventory have ZERO effect on the amount of metals that are required to be vaulted; the depository must be fully funded up to the amount of "all outstanding shares."
The potential problem - and it is a real one - comes IF a corrupt/negligent market-maker/broker allows me to short an ETF without his first having borrowed/bought the shares himself. This is called "naked shorting;" MMs are essentially exempt from the regs/rules that "prohibit" the practice. There are numerous loopholes that allow teams of corrupt MMs to repeatedly "naked short" between themselves and individual investors.
The practice of naked-shorting - while having ZERO effect on the amount of metals on deposit - does artificially inflate the share float BUT ONLY on the records of the traders......NOT on depository records. Such "inflation" can - but does not always - lead to what is known as a "short squeeze." The squeeze can happen if the naked-short is forced to find "real shares" to cover his short position, while the PPS of the ETF is rising rapidly.
The purpose of the short is to sell borrowed shares at high prices, and cover the shares (pay them back) when the price falls. If the price rises fast, the short may panic and become squeezed into having to pay MORE for the replacement shares than he sold the borrowed shares for. The short thus loses money.
The subject ETFs have NOT been on the "naked short list" maintained by the SEC. There is no reason to think that they will be. There is ALWAYS enough metal on deposit to "back" the ETFs. Representations to the contrary are false, and are generally made by peddlers of conspiracy theories who are intent on STEALING money from gullible folks.
Persons holding legitimate shares in an ETF are not affected in ANY way when shares are shorted. The shareholder's investment is fully matched by the corresponding commodity. Such shareholders are often paid interest for "loaning" their shares; they are always paid any dividends due.
I have been in this business for decades, and I know a pump and dump scam when I see one. Hucksters trying to encourage the peasants to move retirement funds into metals will cause the uninformed to lose those funds.
There is NOTHING wrong with having some gold and silver. It is irresponsible to put ALL of one's funds into a vehicle whose bull is weary and about to go to sleep for another 20-years.
Buy and hold will not work with metals at these levels, unless the bagholder is able to wait MANY years for the payoff. Short-term price hikes may well be seen; those who sell into that strength will be gald they did, and will be able to buy back into the game at much lower levels.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
The fact is that the earth is getting warmer every year; you all can explain that any way that makes you feel warm n fuzzy
How do you explain this past winter being the coldest in a century? Could it be that the climate has naturally fluctuated, warm to cold, ice age to thaw, for millions of years?
and that within any given short term period, fluctuations naturally occur for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with human activity at all?
<< <i>The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require. >>
What he said.
Isn't funny/sad that these uber-liberals and globalists want us to be in pain. They want us to suffer and believe that BIG BROTHER will take care of us. Obama and his Brain Trust want us to pay $4+ in gas...drilling has no hope he said today. Congress can't even handle the obscene windfall profits (correct reference, not oil) so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart.
On my car I have two bumper stickers (that I made online) that say "No Obama-Nation, Vote 2008" and the looks I get are priceless. I was thinking about selling the rest in Denver at the convention in August but now I feel that I may fear for my life or my car may fear for its tires.
Ren >>
My understanding is that all or most of the Alaskan oil from the Prudhoe Bay area is being exported to Japan. Why did we go thru the hassle of putting in the pipeline if we weren't going to use the oil ourselves? >>
Because we made an agreement with Japan that if they footed 1/2 the bill for building the pipeline we would sell them 1/2 the oil.
Think of the poor Japanese, they have no oil resources. If there ever was a society that needed to develope alternative energy it is they.
Royal Bank of Scotland advised its clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation "paralyzes" the major central banks, according to the Daily Telegraph.
thanks storm888. great post. it seems my main confusion was the fact the person borrowing the stock to the "shorter" does not give up ownership. I thought the opposite was true.
But in the end i was correct that the ETF and real shareholders should not care about the shorting going on as long as the ETF follows its own rules about getting the physical metals per share in a very timely fashion.
so in the end, that writer of the article was spewing ignorance ,in my mind, somehow linking shorting and the ETF together in a fashion that gives more risk to the real shareholder owners.
I have been in this business for decades, and I know a pump and dump scam when I see one. Hucksters trying to encourage the peasants to move retirement funds into metals will cause the uninformed to lose those funds.
Who's scamming whom? Precious metals aren't really rising (that much). The Treasury and Fed are giving away dollars to their "preferred customers", hand over fist. You and I are paying for it whether we want to or not, unless you get out of their way. And putting money into paper assets right now is not the way.
You wanna talk about losing funds? Is gasoline not costing me $4.00 a gallon, or am I psychotic and don't know it? How much purchasing power has the dollar lost lately? Who bothers to keep track anymore? Why isn't inflation reported honestly? You know the answers, and you don't need me to tell you.
I don't know what your motivations are, but the real scammers are the ones who mismanage the money supply for political gain, and the ones who receive free billions of dollars of taxpayer money because they got caught in their own kiting schemes in the derivatives scam. Gimme a break. The "paper money pumpers" make the "gold pumpers" look like Mother Theresa.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Royal Bank of Scotland advised its clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation "paralyzes" the major central banks, according to the Daily Telegraph. >>
it has been discovered that all their sporrans were not holding anything in place. it was all a facade...much like the derivavtives
<< <i>I have been in this business for decades, and I know a pump and dump scam when I see one. Hucksters trying to encourage the peasants to move retirement funds into metals will cause the uninformed to lose those funds.
Who's scamming whom? Precious metals aren't really rising (that much). The Treasury and Fed are giving away dollars to their "preferred customers", hand over fist. You and I are paying for it whether we want to or not, unless you get out of their way. And putting money into paper assets right now is not the way.
You wanna talk about losing funds? Is gasoline not costing me $4.00 a gallon, or am I psychotic and don't know it? How much purchasing power has the dollar lost lately? Who bothers to keep track anymore? Why isn't inflation reported honestly? You know the answers, and you don't need me to tell you.
I don't know what your motivations are, but the real scammers are the ones who mismanage the money supply and the ones who receive free Billions of dollars because they got caught in their own kiting schemes. Gimme a break. The "paper money pumpers" make the "gold pumpers" look like Mother Theresa. >>
Not much to argue against there. You largely get it, and its largely elementary, and it is purely academic. IT portends neither reform, nor the end of the system of things.
To think that the kite is going to be allowed to crash because its paper has failed, is dangerous thinking. EVERYBODY with any sense KNOWS what is going on - HAS BEEN going on. Somehow, some folks think "right will prevail" and they will somehow be allowed to benefit from it; NOT going to happen.
In the 1960s and before, the SAME facts were known by MANY folks. Many were sure that the end was near; it was not, and it is not near now, either. The mere argument that "it is much worse now," does not forecast the end.
The unwinding of the paper-mess would deliver a world-wide depression that would last for MANY YEARS. The metals would benefit little in real terms. Holders of metals who ALSO had mortgage debt might benefit by paying-off their mortgages with cheaper dollars, but that is about it. Paper money would still be how the grocer kept score, and that money would be HARD to come by.
At the core of every metal-bug's hope/belief is the CRASHING of society by the final admission that its paper-money is "no good." Such an admission will not come soon.
So if 1000 ounces are backing for 100 shares are borrowed and sold to 100 buyers 3 times over then 300 people think they have 10 ounces each when there is still only 1000 and not 3000 ounces in storage. Of course the shorters are expected to buy the shares they lend with paper dollars at some point but not actually come up with the silver.
What happens if the price rises to $100 an ounce and they can't cover??
Selling an ETF short is selling an item you don't have. The prospectus said the metal was on deposit and the buyer expects that the shares he bought represent real metal on deposit not some promise that some short seller would "buy" it back later, if he doesn't BK.
Instead, think of shorts as an accounting entry that has ABSOLUTELY no effect on the underlying commodity. EVERY person who holds a long position is FULLY covered up to their holdings by the PHYSICAL commodity. The number of shares SHORT has ZERO effect on the vaulted commodity.
If the price "goes to $100," the short can either buy to cover, OR he can default and his account balance will be ZERO. In either case, the metal in the vault is neither increased nor decreased; its quantity-count always stays the same.
Folks who want a basic course in short-selling can read their online brokerage TOS, or use wikipedia.
The fact is that absent shorts, the liquidity that is in any market would be substantially reduced. The idea of "selling something you borrowed" may not be easy to grasp, but it is how ALL markets in financial instruments work, how they have always worked, and how the will always work in the future.
Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
<< <i> ,in my mind, somehow linking shorting and the ETF together in a fashion that gives more risk to the real shareholder owners. so in the end, that writer of the article was spewing ignorance >>
So if 1000 ounces are backing for 100 shares are borrowed and sold to 100 buyers 3 times over then 300 people think they have 10 ounces each when there is still only 1000 and not 3000 ounces in storage. Of course the shorters are expected to buy the shares they lend with paper dollars at some point but not actually come up with the silver.
What happens if the price rises to $100 an ounce and they can't cover??
I kinda thought a lot of people invested in PMs to avoid getting screwed in these paper games.
Selling an ETF short is selling an item you don't have. The prospectus said the metal was on deposit and the buyer expects that the shares he bought represent real metal on deposit not some promise that some short seller would "buy" it back later, if he doesn't BK.
Comments
If you want to take things a step further and don't have liquidity issues, why not sought after gold coins? The mid grade rare material is constantly in demand, good times or bad times. I like putting my money here there because they appreciate. Try and buy a nice au 50-58 C or D or any cool O/CC material, gold anything $1-$20 coin. One thing for darn sure, they are not going to get cheaper and you are going to have to wait for a nice one. Want a heraldic early eagle? Meet with some collector in this area and talk with them about it. Go through Heritage auction archives and follow a few of them for the last 6 or 8 years and see what they have done. And, the most fun part of it is it is FUN!!!
Edited to add: Cash is always good too!!!
So, everyone has an opinion, particularly on this bug thread but that's how I see it but once again...it is just another opinion. DYODD
For entertainment purposes only!
<< <i>"Anyone who suggests that the old conventional financial wisdom is good for you at this point has an agenda, and it involves your money."
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The guys pumping metals on every TV station want your money, too.
They are the same pump and dump monkeys that put the peasants into
gold and silver in 1980. That worked out for the pumpers, not so much
for the peasants.
The ONE thing I know for sure: You will never go broke taking a profit.
It is likely about time to take some metal profits, for those who have not already done so.
...............
I run and invest in pawn shops. Pledges are at a 30-year high. Redemptions are at a
35-year low. Cash is king; soon to be a god. >>
You will see 1000 ads telling you to buy stock for every one that tells you to buy gold. The companies that sell gold charge small fees(both % and gross amounts) and the companies that sell stocks charge huge fees. Who owns the huge ornate buildings in every city, gold firms or brokerage firms? Who owns all the private jets, island paradises, 10 million dollar Manhattan apartments, country estates, Bentleys, etc? Owners of gold firms? No, it is the owners and employees of the brokerage and investment banker firms. These people are the real rip-off artists. I wonder if you are one of them, considering how you defend them and attack gold sellerd.
2/3 of your NET in PM's is fine if you have no debt and outside passive income but you MAY be in a house of cards if the chit hits the fan.
Take some profits, there are always opportunities that show up to those that can take advantage of them on short notice.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I am a "gold seller."
Selling is the ONLY way to preserve/assure profits.
Everybody should always have a LITTLE gold and silver in their hands.
Guns and ammo are good, too. G&A will get you through times
of no gold, better than gold will get you through times of no G&A.
When gold is below $500 next year, there will be a fresh understanding
of the "value" of the dollar.
Maybe when crude is $30/bbl. and when the Midwest hasn't had their corn crop wiped out, and when the Treasury stops handing out $75 Billion a week to the banking cartel, and when the war in Iraq is financed by Iraqi oil, and when Obama decides NOT to offer free health care, and, and, and..........
I knew it would happen.
Storm888, are you willing to take wagers that $500 and lower gold will not be hit next year?? I suspect you'll have a long line of takers on this forum. And if you can double up your money in one year, what stock is going to beat that? Let us know. We're happy to contribute to your retirement fund. PS...I'm a gold holder and rarely sell anything from my core physical positions. Stocks are for selling when the time is right.....physical metals are for long term holding as they are the only true money out there as long as king fiat reigns.
The ONE thing I know for sure: You will never go broke taking a profit.
Jesse Livermore would disagree in that you should be taking longer term positions and riding from the bottom towards the top. Making 10% on a trade is sort of useless when you could make 100% by riding the trend out. That has happened with me on a number of great coins where I settled for 15-30% in the short term and saw those coins rise to +100% a year later. And that small gain was certainly not put back into something better (ie you already had the winning horse and you traded it for a bunch of also-rans). Worse yet, you have to pay taxes on those smaller but earlier gains. Many times standing pat and riding it out longer is a far better strategy.
And you'll never do well taking that little profit way too early either. I made that mistake in the stock market in 1997 when I basically got out at DOW 7500 because it seemed nuts to me (so don't ever take my advice on when to sell generic variety 401K stock funds). Much money was made after 1997 without me on board. If you're getting out of metals now you're leaving at least 2-1/2 to 3 years too early.
It's not the investments that you profit on that make you broke (and even a 1% gain is a "profit"). But rather it's the "investments" that you get hammered on from the start that make you broke. For most people in coins it works much the same way. For every winner you have at say 50%, you'll have several losers worth much more than that. Yet most will dump that winner way too soon and hang on to those losers way too long.
roadrunner
At least the payments are a tax deduction.
Depends. In our case the tax deduction sucks when compared to the standard deduction.
But we don't file fraudulent tax returns, either.
////////////////////////////////////////////////
My money is already in play and my wagers are being placed.
I am building a GLD/SLV short position.
From my previous posts on this thread you can see that I sold
GLD/SLV closer to the top than we are now. (I dumped UNG
a little too early, and kept some USO through today.)
Those were all longterm holdings.
I am getting ready to short USO; and, I took a tiny position in DUG, today.
I always have a little physical metal, but not more than I can easily carry
on the run. That is the only time it has much advantage over my ETFs.
"Fiat" is what the grocer accepts. When that changes, I will use
some other kind of "money."
I have been hearing "the money is going to fail" for 40-years. I keep
making it and spending it; no problems, yet.
Since I was deep in the 1980-mix, I know what happens to folks who
think metals "are a permanent storehouse of value." I dumped at the
right time then, and I am pretty sure I am right this time, too.
$1 QUADRILLION in derivatives is why today is so much different than 1980 when the OTC-D market didn't hardly exist. Most of the inflation and monetary problems of today are solidly linked to the D's mess, of which we are still in the infancy phase of accountability.
My money is already in play and my wagers are being placed.
I am building a GLD/SLV short position.
OK, I take that as a no to a wager. Not even 14,000 DOW vs $1000 gold? In any case, $1200 gold is coming before $500.
I have been hearing "the money is going to fail" for 40-years. I keep making it and spending it; no problems, yet.
It has taken herculean efforts by the FED over the past 40 years to keep this game afloat (not to mention selling thousands of tons of Central Bank gold to keep the fiat faith alive). To suggest that the last 40 yrs automatically suggests a similar 40 yrs to come is quite a leap of faith. 37 years in the pure fiat experiment is a very short period of time. But all fiat experiments have ended in failure. In 1982 we began the biggest credit binge (ie debt creation) of all time, and now it's world wide. It will take more than $890 gold, $17 silver, and 1-2% interest rates to fix the problem. I don't know how long it will take to fix our problems, but I'm certain it's not going to be in 2008 or by 2009. $500 gold is not impossible......but it would merely be a stepping stone on the way to $1500+. Clearly the FED has lots of ammo left, whether contrived or real and can lead the charge to suppress prices whenever they wish. 20% interest rates in the early 1980's brought inflation to its knees and strengthened the dollar. Now how far are we away from that point right now considering inflation is just getting started?
Just today I listened to Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal state on the radio that penalties needed to be made for those speculating on oil, gas and food futures. Clearly he must know that the major banks and brokers (GS, JPM, Citi, Merrill, etc...and ultimately the owners of the FED banks) are the very people behind the speculation and no doubt some of the biggest profiteers in commodities trading. From the manipulated Goldman Sachs commodity index to JPM's absorption of BSC, those screaming for accountability only need to look at their own elected "blind" politicians and the financial cartels for the real crooks. This is why the game is not ending any time soon. In fact the FED has been talking with over a dozen financial institutions who have a big stake in the $60 TRILL OTC-D swaps market...the next big axe to fall. In essence they are looking for ways to bail out all these guys...at our expense. These pros pump and dump on their own trading accounts but still advise JP6 to hold on for the longterm...as better times are always around the corner. After all, stocks have ALWAYS done well over any 30-50 year period (not 20 yrs as 1929-1954 and 1966-1987 will attest). Unfortunately what they don't say is that during the past 30 or so years it's taken a 13X increase in the money supply and a 100X increase in debt to make this miracle happen. Do we have another 13X M3 increase in our future or the ability to take derivatives to $100 QUADRILLION to "prosper" over the next 30 yrs? Based on previous history, something different is happening in the 2001-2013 period.
roadrunner
SLV missing physical metal
But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold.
roadrunner
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Those "penalties" are on the way.
GS' call for $200 oil, while their own desks have the largest
short-positions in USO, is all I need to know about what is
about to happen.
The CFTC will act, soon. I do not know exactly when, but
I know it has to happen soon. The new regs will call for
100% transparency in all trades. When it is revealed that
the shorts are ALL of the pumpers, the peasants will
flee and their money will be gone forever.
Traders are now operating under the same regs that brought
us ENE. A fake "energy crisis" delivered ENE's profits, AND
caused its implosion. This "energy crisis" is of the same
making; unlimited supply, limited demand........ disguised
by "pretend" buyers in the pits.
Last week, less than 9% of NYME oil-paper was traded by
end-users; the rest was ALL speculators getting ready for
the whipsaw. Once they step back, their shorts will make
them SUPER RICH, as the bagholding "public" gets slaughtered.
When oil is back at $70/$80, gold will be no where near its
latest highs. It will happen before the election. Even the
Saudis say that $60 oil is "about the right price."
If you lay the GLD/SLV charts over the USO charts from Jan/
Feb/Mar/April, you can see that the metals cannot hold up
against a decline in oil prices. GLD/SLV couldn't hold their
highs when oil was MUCH cheaper than it is today; the
next BIG dip in oil will tank GLD/SLV.
AGAIN: I am NOT against holding some gold and silver. I am
certainly FOR trying to trade it profitably. I am against holding
BIG physical positions through thick/thin. The time to buy/hold
has passed. I will wait for it to return and take another ride up;
and, in the meantime, I will profit on the decline.
So long as they continue pumping it's difficult to believe the prices of many things will be falling.
I know it has to happen soon. The new regs will call for
100% transparency in all trades. When it is revealed that
the shorts are ALL of the pumpers, the peasants will
flee and their money will be gone forever.
Doesn't this contradict the short position you are building in SLV/GLD? Geepers, if they ever required transparency in all trades, wouldn't that blow your SLV short position from here to Mars? (reference the Ted Butler article)
I'll keep my physical bullion and continue to add to it, thanks. My retirement is too important to leave it up to a "trading strategy."
I knew it would happen.
////////////////////////////////////////////
"Transparency" is about the record of a position being "viewable"
by regulators, and/or by those charged with abiding by regulations when
facilitating the trading of that position. (The CFTC will likely tell the
NYME and other exchanges, "Know your customer, and let us look
at the docs everyday." For this to happen, Congress will/may have
to act. Maybe the exchanges will "volunteer" a little, to avoid a
more harsh remedy.)
Currently, there is no routine obligation on the part of an exchange member
to reveal his principals.
So, no; transparency has no ill effect on legitimate short positions.
Being "short" is just as legitimate a trade as is being "long."
As far as I can determine, GLD/SLV/USO/UNG have never been on
the "naked short list." In fact, MOST of the folks who were short
physical gold, were long GLD as soon as that ETF began trading.
"Transparency" will cause the immediate tanking of oil prices. That
fall will take the metals down with it.
The CFTC is under the thumb of the FED, Treasury, GS, JPM, and the boys. And those guys have the politicians sewn up. While some regulations will no doubt come about to skewer J6P, it will likely do little to police the trading game that the banks and brokers currently enjoy. In the meantine derivatives continue to grow at an alarming rate. I don't see them cutting their own throats. As long as they have TRILLIONs in derivatives debt to pay off, the last thing that will happen is to take away their "short" position trading profits that help cover some of the losses from D's.
Let's face it, the excess monetary policies approved by congress and implemented by the FED has forced even J6P to take refuge in short or long positions in various commodities (oil, energy, metals, agri-products, land, etc). To punish J6P from seeking safety from absurd monetary policies created by the very congress that intends to regulate their way out of the mess is irony at its best. Pushing oil back down might have an immediate effect on gold, but it's not something that will last past July-August, assuming some trading restrictions come out by that time. Oddly, you won't see any regs on naked short selling silver and gold anytime soon. You'd better hope for those regs to come soon because gold is in a converging pennant formation that is about to break upwards just as the last several pennants have.
roadrunner
pennant formation that is about to break upwards just as the last several pennants have."
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////
I agree.
That is why I am only shorting on significant strength.
And, I only take little bites each time. I well know the
price can go up.
Many folks think "short positions" are in/out trades. They
are - can be - LONGTERM investments. I have remained
short for as long as three-years on numerous stocks, before
I covered.
MANY longs don't bail each time their position goes south;
shorts often play it the same way, and simply short more
at higher levels.
Platinum Futures Climb as South Africa Strike May Crimp Output
<< <i>It's starting to become more clear why we are seeing the discrepancy between the price of 'paper' Comex silver, and the price of getting the real silver out there. How much longer can these games be allowed to go on?? >>
i have been watching this for some time ask the same question.
i think the manipulation is done to just keep $$$ investment from going "dead" in the eyes of the markets....ie the buy and accumulate crowd in physical gold and silver don't trade the stuff in and out, hourly, daily, weekly or monthly. maybe that's naive, i dunno
again i look at physical as a hedge to what i see as a possible tsunami of inflation.
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month
Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service.
__________________
<< <i>From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month
Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service.
__________________ >>
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>
<< <i>From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month
Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service.
__________________ >>
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going. >>
That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with global warming. Global warming is defined as the yearly increase of the the average temperature of the entire earth, not temperature variations/deviations of selected locations.
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going. >>
That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with global warming. Global warming is defined as the yearly increase of the the average temperature of the entire earth, not temperature variations/deviations of selected locations. >>
And I reject the thought that people and their doings are responsible for global warming, climate change or whatever it's called. How egotistical to think we are so powerful.
R
How true.
Box of 20
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>From the do as we say crowd, not as we do! OH BROTHER!
Energy Guzzled by Al Gore’s Home in Past Year Could Power 232 U.S. Homes for a Month
Gore’s personal electricity consumption up 10%, despite “energy-efficient” home renovations
NASHVILLE - In the year since Al Gore took steps to make his home more energy-efficient, the former Vice President’s home energy use surged more than 10%, according to the Tennessee Center for Policy Research.
“A man’s commitment to his beliefs is best measured by what he does behind the closed doors of his own home,” said Drew Johnson, President of the Tennessee Center for Policy Research. “Al Gore is a hypocrite and a fraud when it comes to his commitment to the environment, judging by his home energy consumption.”
In the past year, Gore’s home burned through 213,210 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity, enough to power 232 average American households for a month.
In February 2007, An Inconvenient Truth, a film based on a climate change speech developed by Gore, won an Academy Award for best documentary feature. The next day, the Tennessee Center for Policy Research uncovered that Gore’s Nashville home guzzled 20 times more electricity than the average American household.
After the Tennessee Center for Policy Research exposed Gore’s massive home energy use, the former Vice President scurried to make his home more energy-efficient. Despite adding solar panels, installing a geothermal system, replacing existing light bulbs with more efficient models, and overhauling the home’s windows and ductwork, Gore now consumes more electricity than before the “green” overhaul.
Since taking steps to make his home more environmentally-friendly last June, Gore devours an average of 17,768 kWh per month –1,638 kWh more energy per month than before the renovations – at a cost of $16,533. By comparison, the average American household consumes 11,040 kWh in an entire year, according to the Energy Information Administration.
In the wake of becoming the most well-known global warming alarmist, Gore won an Oscar, a Grammy and the Nobel Peace Prize. In addition, Gore saw his personal wealth increase by an estimated $100 million thanks largely to speaking fees and investments related to global warming hysteria.
“Actions speak louder than words, and Gore’s actions prove that he views climate change not as a serious problem, but as a money-making opportunity,” Johnson said. “Gore is exploiting the public’s concern about the environment to line his pockets and enhance his profile.”
The Tennessee Center for Policy Research, a Nashville-based free market think tank and watchdog organization, obtained information about Gore’s home energy use through a public records request to the Nashville Electric Service.
__________________ >>
It is 58 degrees at my house right now and its almost noon. Ave high for this date is 76. Last winter I got 21 FEET of snow. I dont know what I am going to do if Gore's global warming fiasco keeps going. >>
That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with global warming. Global warming is defined as the yearly increase of the the average temperature of the entire earth, not temperature variations/deviations of selected locations. >>
At Yosemite Natl Park, there is a kiosk that shows how the impressive valleys were caused by glaciation. Over the past 10 million years, the glaciers have come and gone. Why did they come, and why did they go? Is it humans fault? There is also a graph of global temps over that time period. The moving average is downward sloping. That means that the earth has been cooling, not warming over time.
Just as it may not be "fair" to compare the weather at my house to the global environment, it is not fair to compare the last 100 years to the actual truth of what has been going on for eons.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
roadrunner
<< <i>
But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold. >>
this does not even make sense.
a person buys stock in an ETF then procedes to short them (sell).
another person comes alongs and buys them.
Person A no longer has any ETF stock and person B does.
Who gives a rat's butt what person A does at this point. If they
want the shares back they have to buy them. The amount of silver
or gold should not change in the fund due to this transaction.
Now I do not know if the ETF has the right amount of metal for
each share, but lets assume they do. Shorting the ETF shares will
not affect this in the least. Someone owns the shares and someone
else does not!!! It is not like new shares were created in the process
and the transaction is somehow fishy.
can someone please explain to me what I am missing here?
Rotten Tomatoes Caused by Climate Change?
also please note the person who wrote up that text has an obvious
bias to want people to be bullish about buying physical silver. heck
just look at the domain name and at the end. call us for all your PM
needs.
his basic theme to the whole write up was the delay in the ETF
in depositing the silver when issuing new shares. As long as the
ETF actually follows through with purchasing the metal it is not
an issue. Of course the writer being a conspiracy nut will see what
they wish to see...
but i still would like to discuss my previous post more. thanks. i must
be missing something or the writer is simply a nut job.
<< <i>The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require. >>
What he said.
Isn't funny/sad that these uber-liberals and globalists want us to be in pain. They want us to suffer and believe that BIG BROTHER will take care of us. Obama and his Brain Trust want us to pay $4+ in gas...drilling has no hope he said today. Congress can't even handle the obscene windfall profits (correct reference, not oil) so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart.
On my car I have two bumper stickers (that I made online) that say "No Obama-Nation, Vote 2008" and the looks I get are priceless. I was thinking about selling the rest in Denver at the convention in August but now I feel that I may fear for my life or my car may fear for its tires.
Ren
<< <i>It's Bush's fault!
Rotten Tomatoes Caused by Climate Change?
I can't wait until the flood waters in the Mississippi get close to New Orleans...Spike Lee's comment should be interesting.
Ren
It is quite obvious that the average citizen is not reasonable. The fact that anyone would even give Gore a second paragraph in any article is fair evidence of lack of reason. I'm sure his scientific credentials give us all good reason to have abundant confidence in his prognostications and urgency...oh wait, he doesn't have any scientific credentials. But, you have to admit, he has come up with a cool gig with this global warming thing. No second paragraph...
Yeah, wait till those Mississippi flood waters get to N.O., but they have at least a weeks notice so we'll see what happens! You know, it was FEMA's fault that those levees broke in Iowa because Bush hates N.O.. Any chance that Louisiana will send any volunteers or aid to Iowa?
<< <i>
<< <i>The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require. >>
What he said.
Isn't funny/sad that these uber-liberals and globalists want us to be in pain. They want us to suffer and believe that BIG BROTHER will take care of us. Obama and his Brain Trust want us to pay $4+ in gas...drilling has no hope he said today. Congress can't even handle the obscene windfall profits (correct reference, not oil) so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart.
On my car I have two bumper stickers (that I made online) that say "No Obama-Nation, Vote 2008" and the looks I get are priceless. I was thinking about selling the rest in Denver at the convention in August but now I feel that I may fear for my life or my car may fear for its tires.
Ren >>
My understanding is that all or most of the Alaskan oil from the Prudhoe Bay area is being exported to Japan. Why did we go thru the hassle of putting in the pipeline if we weren't going to use the oil ourselves?
<< <i>
<< <i>
But what happens when someone buys shares in these ETFs and the seller is selling those shares short? Does the short seller deposit metal to back up the buyer’s purchase? No. The short seller just sells the shares short without depositing metal, perhaps borrowing other shares first, perhaps not. The buyer doesn’t know who he is buying from, he gets a confirmation of his purchase from his broker, pays for it and assumes, according the representations in the prospectus, that he is buying new shares issued by the sponsor who has deposited metal, or from an existing shareholder who has decided to liquidate his shares. It never occurs to the buyer that he is buying from a short seller who is not depositing metal. In essence, the short seller is circumventing what is promised in the prospectus. That party is short-circuiting and destroying the promise clearly laid out in the prospectus that real metal backs every share sold. >>
this does not even make sense.
a person buys stock in an ETF then procedes to short them (sell).
another person comes alongs and buys them.
Person A no longer has any ETF stock and person B does.
Who gives a rat's butt what person A does at this point. If they
want the shares back they have to buy them. The amount of silver
or gold should not change in the fund due to this transaction.
Now I do not know if the ETF has the right amount of metal for
each share, but lets assume they do. Shorting the ETF shares will
not affect this in the least. Someone owns the shares and someone
else does not!!! It is not like new shares were created in the process
and the transaction is somehow fishy.
can someone please explain to me what I am missing here? >>
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
You're not really "missing" anything, and the metal-pumper is either
purposely misrepresenting the process, or he doen't know what he
is talking about. His description of the process is nonsense.
BUT, this statement..........
"Person A no longer has any ETF stock and person B does.
Who gives a rat's butt what person A does at this point. If they
want the shares back they have to buy them. The amount of silver
or gold should not change in the fund due to this transaction."
......is not an accurate description of the process.
When I short an ETF, I have, through a broker, "borrowed" the shares
from the true owner. That loan to me does NOT obviate the "ownership"
rights of the person who is loaning the stock. The borrowed shares will
continue to show in the "lender's" account as "shares held." If the ETF
was one that paid a dividend, I would be responsible for paying that
dividend to the "owner/lender," until I covered the short by buying
shares to cover those I had borrowed.
Contrary to what the metal-propagandist offers, the potential problems
do NOT lay in the ETF manager's failing to fund the underlying holding
(metals). The managers are regulated and their depository is subject
to inspection/review at ALL times. Short and long positions against
the inventory have ZERO effect on the amount of metals that are
required to be vaulted; the depository must be fully funded up to
the amount of "all outstanding shares."
The potential problem - and it is a real one - comes IF a corrupt/negligent
market-maker/broker allows me to short an ETF without his first having
borrowed/bought the shares himself. This is called "naked shorting;"
MMs are essentially exempt from the regs/rules that "prohibit" the
practice. There are numerous loopholes that allow teams of corrupt
MMs to repeatedly "naked short" between themselves and individual
investors.
The practice of naked-shorting - while having ZERO effect on the amount of
metals on deposit - does artificially inflate the share float BUT ONLY on
the records of the traders......NOT on depository records. Such "inflation"
can - but does not always - lead to what is known as a "short squeeze."
The squeeze can happen if the naked-short is forced to find "real shares"
to cover his short position, while the PPS of the ETF is rising rapidly.
The purpose of the short is to sell borrowed shares at high prices, and
cover the shares (pay them back) when the price falls. If the price rises
fast, the short may panic and become squeezed into having to pay MORE
for the replacement shares than he sold the borrowed shares for. The
short thus loses money.
The subject ETFs have NOT been on the "naked short list" maintained by
the SEC. There is no reason to think that they will be. There is ALWAYS
enough metal on deposit to "back" the ETFs. Representations to the
contrary are false, and are generally made by peddlers of conspiracy
theories who are intent on STEALING money from gullible folks.
Persons holding legitimate shares in an ETF are not affected in ANY way
when shares are shorted. The shareholder's investment is fully matched
by the corresponding commodity. Such shareholders are often paid interest
for "loaning" their shares; they are always paid any dividends due.
I have been in this business for decades, and I know a pump and dump
scam when I see one. Hucksters trying to encourage the peasants to
move retirement funds into metals will cause the uninformed to lose
those funds.
There is NOTHING wrong with having some gold and silver. It is irresponsible
to put ALL of one's funds into a vehicle whose bull is weary and about to
go to sleep for another 20-years.
Buy and hold will not work with metals at these levels, unless the bagholder
is able to wait MANY years for the payoff. Short-term price hikes may well
be seen; those who sell into that strength will be gald they did, and will
be able to buy back into the game at much lower levels.
How do you explain this past winter being the coldest in a century? Could it be that the climate has naturally fluctuated, warm to cold, ice age to thaw, for millions of years?
and that within any given short term period, fluctuations naturally occur for a variety of reasons, none of which have anything to do with human activity at all?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The real problem is the whole solar system in warming, Mars is much hotter than it was in the past so the theroy that we're causing this is a fraud. You won't hear the globalist mention that fact. Seems if we can get rid of those Gore type we'll save plenty he comsumes more than any one person/family should require. >>
What he said.
Isn't funny/sad that these uber-liberals and globalists want us to be in pain. They want us to suffer and believe that BIG BROTHER will take care of us. Obama and his Brain Trust want us to pay $4+ in gas...drilling has no hope he said today. Congress can't even handle the obscene windfall profits (correct reference, not oil) so how can a reasonable citizen believe they have our interest at heart.
On my car I have two bumper stickers (that I made online) that say "No Obama-Nation, Vote 2008" and the looks I get are priceless. I was thinking about selling the rest in Denver at the convention in August but now I feel that I may fear for my life or my car may fear for its tires.
Ren >>
My understanding is that all or most of the Alaskan oil from the Prudhoe Bay area is being exported to Japan. Why did we go thru the hassle of putting in the pipeline if we weren't going to use the oil ourselves? >>
Because we made an agreement with Japan that if they footed 1/2 the bill for building the pipeline we would sell them 1/2 the oil.
Think of the poor Japanese, they have no oil resources. If there ever was a society that needed to develope alternative energy it is they.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Royal Bank of Scotland advised its clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation "paralyzes" the major central banks, according to the Daily Telegraph.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
the fact the person borrowing the stock to the "shorter" does
not give up ownership. I thought the opposite was true.
But in the end i was correct that the ETF and real shareholders
should not care about the shorting going on as long as the ETF
follows its own rules about getting the physical metals per share
in a very timely fashion.
so in the end, that writer of the article was spewing ignorance
,in my mind, somehow linking shorting and the ETF together in
a fashion that gives more risk to the real shareholder owners.
Who's scamming whom? Precious metals aren't really rising (that much). The Treasury and Fed are giving away dollars to their "preferred customers", hand over fist. You and I are paying for it whether we want to or not, unless you get out of their way. And putting money into paper assets right now is not the way.
You wanna talk about losing funds? Is gasoline not costing me $4.00 a gallon, or am I psychotic and don't know it? How much purchasing power has the dollar lost lately? Who bothers to keep track anymore? Why isn't inflation reported honestly? You know the answers, and you don't need me to tell you.
I don't know what your motivations are, but the real scammers are the ones who mismanage the money supply for political gain, and the ones who receive free billions of dollars of taxpayer money because they got caught in their own kiting schemes in the derivatives scam. Gimme a break. The "paper money pumpers" make the "gold pumpers" look like Mother Theresa.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i>Will RBS's prognostication prove true?
Royal Bank of Scotland advised its clients to brace for a full-fledged crash in global stock and credit markets over the next three months as inflation "paralyzes" the major central banks, according to the Daily Telegraph. >>
it has been discovered that all their sporrans were not holding anything in place. it was all a facade...much like the derivavtives
<< <i>I have been in this business for decades, and I know a pump and dump scam when I see one. Hucksters trying to encourage the peasants to move retirement funds into metals will cause the uninformed to lose those funds.
Who's scamming whom? Precious metals aren't really rising (that much). The Treasury and Fed are giving away dollars to their "preferred customers", hand over fist. You and I are paying for it whether we want to or not, unless you get out of their way. And putting money into paper assets right now is not the way.
You wanna talk about losing funds? Is gasoline not costing me $4.00 a gallon, or am I psychotic and don't know it? How much purchasing power has the dollar lost lately? Who bothers to keep track anymore? Why isn't inflation reported honestly? You know the answers, and you don't need me to tell you.
I don't know what your motivations are, but the real scammers are the ones who mismanage the money supply and the ones who receive free Billions of dollars because they got caught in their own kiting schemes. Gimme a break. The "paper money pumpers" make the "gold pumpers" look like Mother Theresa. >>
//////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////
Not much to argue against there. You largely get it, and its largely elementary, and
it is purely academic. IT portends neither reform, nor the end of the system of things.
To think that the kite is going to be allowed to crash because its paper has failed,
is dangerous thinking. EVERYBODY with any sense KNOWS what is going on - HAS
BEEN going on. Somehow, some folks think "right will prevail" and they will somehow
be allowed to benefit from it; NOT going to happen.
In the 1960s and before, the SAME facts were known by MANY folks. Many were sure
that the end was near; it was not, and it is not near now, either. The mere argument
that "it is much worse now," does not forecast the end.
The unwinding of the paper-mess would deliver a world-wide depression that would
last for MANY YEARS. The metals would benefit little in real terms. Holders of metals
who ALSO had mortgage debt might benefit by paying-off their mortgages with cheaper
dollars, but that is about it. Paper money would still be how the grocer kept score, and
that money would be HARD to come by.
At the core of every metal-bug's hope/belief is the CRASHING of society by the final
admission that its paper-money is "no good." Such an admission will not come soon.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
....................................................
So if 1000 ounces are backing for 100 shares are borrowed and sold to 100 buyers 3 times over then 300 people think they have 10 ounces each when there is still only 1000 and not 3000 ounces in storage. Of course the shorters are expected to buy the shares they lend with paper dollars at some point but not actually come up with the silver.
What happens if the price rises to $100 an ounce and they can't cover??
Selling an ETF short is selling an item you don't have. The prospectus said the metal was on deposit and the buyer expects that the shares he bought represent real metal on deposit not some promise that some short seller would "buy" it back later, if he doesn't BK.
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No, that's not how it works.
Don't mix apples and oranges.
Instead, think of shorts as an accounting entry that has ABSOLUTELY no effect on the
underlying commodity. EVERY person who holds a long position is FULLY covered
up to their holdings by the PHYSICAL commodity. The number of shares SHORT has
ZERO effect on the vaulted commodity.
If the price "goes to $100," the short can either buy to cover, OR he can default and his
account balance will be ZERO. In either case, the metal in the vault is neither increased
nor decreased; its quantity-count always stays the same.
Folks who want a basic course in short-selling can read their online brokerage TOS,
or use wikipedia.
The fact is that absent shorts, the liquidity that is in any market would be substantially reduced.
The idea of "selling something you borrowed" may not be easy to grasp, but it is how ALL markets
in financial instruments work, how they have always worked, and how the will always work in the future.
<< <i>
,in my mind, somehow linking shorting and the ETF together in
a fashion that gives more risk to the real shareholder owners. so in the end, that writer of the article was spewing ignorance >>
So if 1000 ounces are backing for 100 shares are borrowed and sold to 100 buyers 3 times over then 300 people think they have 10 ounces each when there is still only 1000 and not 3000 ounces in storage. Of course the shorters are expected to buy the shares they lend with paper dollars at some point but not actually come up with the silver.
What happens if the price rises to $100 an ounce and they can't cover??
I kinda thought a lot of people invested in PMs to avoid getting screwed in these paper games.
Selling an ETF short is selling an item you don't have. The prospectus said the metal was on deposit and the buyer expects that the shares he bought represent real metal on deposit not some promise that some short seller would "buy" it back later, if he doesn't BK.
is almost as worthless as....well
money. People just have to learn
to be suspicious of paper. Paper
may well have all the value , of an
empty promise.
Camelot
<< <i>LOL fc... if you took alll the conspiracy nuts out of the metals market , volume would dry up
Who exactly are these conspiracy "nuts" ?
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870