You know what’s worse than a dealer asking how much a collector wants for a coin (which is a perfectly valid question, IMO)? When that dealer makes an offer, and then that collector uses that offer against every dealer in the show to try to get more money. That’s scummy.
Inform yourself. 2. Figure out a reasonable number for what you have. 3. Stick to it. 4. If someone asks what you want, tell them or ask for their offer.
If you walk around and an entire show and can’t sell what you have, it’s either not as nice as you think it is or you probably screwed up step 2.
Chris Dempsey Dempsey & Baxter Rare Coins 6032 Peach Street Erie, PA 16509
@Hobosapian said:
You know what’s worse than a dealer asking how much a collector wants for a coin (which is a perfectly valid question, IMO)? When that dealer makes an offer, and then that collector uses that offer against every dealer in the show to try to get more money. That’s scummy.
Inform yourself. 2. Figure out a reasonable number for what you have. 3. Stick to it. 4. If someone asks what you want, tell them or ask for their offer.
If you walk around and an entire show and can’t sell what you have, it’s either not as nice as you think it is or you probably screwed up step 2.
Dealer fishing for an easy buck hoping you are a hayseed collector... Quote a decent sell price , most dealers will say pass . unless he needs the coin for a customer
@Hobosapian said:
You know what’s worse than a dealer asking how much a collector wants for a coin (which is a perfectly valid question, IMO)? When that dealer makes an offer, and then that collector uses that offer against every dealer in the show to try to get more money. That’s scummy.
Even worse is when the collector tells every other dealer in the show how much you offered. If I offered someone $1,000 for a coin, the collector told the other dealer what my offer was, then the other dealer offered $1,010 and bought the coin, IMO that takes unfair advantage of my knowledge. If you want to offer the coin around, at least be fair to the dealer who has made the first offer.
This is why some dealers specify that their offers expire when you leave their table.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Old thread with some members who have faded away....Makes me a bit sad when I go through these old posts... there were some great contributors over the years..... sorry we lost them. Cheers, RickO
I told a guy last week in the B&M that I would sell him ( a $100 coin) , for less than he wants to sell it to me for ($200).
He left with a new perspective , as well as ... a crappy disposition. . Then I went to Ebay and saw I could buy a dozen similar examples for under $75.
If you want to offer the coin around, at least be fair to the dealer who has made the first offer.
I think this is very fair and reasonable to expect.
I do disagree that it's 'scummy' to shop something around for the best offer.
I acquired a small lot of Confederate currency and misc broken bank notes in a large all-or-nothing estate purchase. I didn't really have the time or resources to research them.
The first dealer at a show offered $550 for the lot, which I passed on. I later decided to keep the misc notes and only sell the Confederate notes, and showed them to three other dealers, eventually selling the lot for >$1000. And some of the dealers ASKED who else made offers and how much, and I would not divulge that.
Try flipping it around. If you walked up to a dealer and there were no prices on the coin, would you want him to answer your question "what do you need on that coin?"
If you are selling a coin to a dealer, YOU are now the dealer and he is the buyer.
From the dealer side, sometimes I'm just trying to find out if it's worth a negotiation, especially if it is something I don't really care to put in inventory. I'll buy ANYTHING at the RIGHT PRICE. But if you walk up with a BU roll of 1956 wheat cents and want full greysheet bid or even 20% back of full greysheet bid, I'm going to tell you that it is not for me.
You also have to realize that some people have really inflated ideas of what their stuff is worth. I had a guy with a bunch of polished common date Morgan dollars a couple years back. I offered him $16 each. He got mad and told me that all Morgans were worth at least $25. My fair offer made him mad because his expectations were mis-informed. If I started with "what do you need on those?", I would have found out that he was not someone with whom I wanted to dicker.
@TheNumish said:
It's not a black and white issue. Sometimes I ask what someone wants to qualify them. If a guy thinks his coin is worth $100 and I offer $25 thinking I can sell it for $30 he's going to walk away mad. Then he's going to get on the message board and talk about that lousy cheapskate dealer that offered $25 for his $100 coin. Sometimes I'm not that interested in buying the coin or really don't know the value and ask what they want just to see what they say. Another situation is if a guy owns a coin, has a bid sheet and has already talked to 10 other dealers about it it's time to be a man and step up and give a price.
So use it as a teachable moment? Tell the truth...
"It's a common date Morgan that was over dipped in the past. If I buy it from you I'll be lucky to get $30 for it, so I can't offer more than $20 and stay in business."
"It's not a series I know about, so I'd have to offer based on the graysheet and hope to be able to sell near that price."
"It's not something I can sell"
What I hate is your setting an absurd low ball price knowing you have no clue and but figuring you will wholesale across the aisle for $5 more. Tell me to go over there.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
When they do that, I always say this and go from there
But truthfully, If I have a realistic price set in my head after some research, I'll say so, But I have always
tried to fish for an offer first.
I usually just put a sticker on the back of the slab (like many dealers do) with my asking price. The price is what I want (that I'm comfortable with) based on things like the particular coin, popularity, graysheet, etc. If I'm not comfortable that I have enough info to stick a price on a particular coin, I'll sometimes ask a knowledgeable and trusted dealer for his "opinion" (what should I be able to get for this coin) before pricing it. I usually sell about half my coins for my asking price without negotiations, the other half will often get counteroffers that are slightly lower. I have never got an offer for more than I was asking.
Many people don't have negotiation skills, don't realize that many prices are negotiable. One thing you learn on ebay, often "buy it now with offers" listings just get people pressing the buy now button without seeing if there are lower prices on that. But Empire Diamond used to advertise saying it was unethical for knowledgeable pros to ask customers walking in to sell "how much do you want for that?" It all depends on what it is and knowledge is vital will sellers.
When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"
A diplomatic response would be: "I need x but I believe y (somewhat more than x) is a fair price. This assumes everyone has done their homework.
In my opinion, this should work:
If the dealer offers x then the seller should be free to shop it to the room without crabbiness. If the dealer offers more than x then the seller should be prepared to lose the dealer's offer if he leaves the table.
@mustangmanbob said:
Why is a simple question so hard to answer?
Nothing else. Simple digital, no analog answers
I guess I haven't made it to the modern digital world of 1 and 0 square waves. When I "answer" verbally, no matter what I "say" it comes out as a analog sine wave. Or maybe you mean by "simple digital" your answer is given by using a single finger representing the number one?
If you come up to my table and offer to sell me something I am going to ask you how much it is every time. It is not to "leave money on the table" but to get a sense of how realistic you are in wanting to sell. I know immediately based on that answer, how much work I want to put into pricing out that coin. In order to pay fair, one must do homework. One only has so many hours in the day to do homework. So we only want to do the homework when we know it is worth-while. If that makes me evil, then so be it. But I am a dealer, not someone whose job it is to bail people out of their purchases.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
I will be happy to price ALL/ANY of my coins...if you want to sell, I think it is fair to have you price your coins. There are always situations where the seller does not really have any idea what the value is, and as a dealer, I am happy to give an offer and explain how I arrived at that number.
Glad to see some additional comment on this resurrected thread. Having only set up at coin club bourses, I haven't been offered much (I haven't displayed a buy-sell-trade sign, either). I do price my coins, so I've done my homework.
I have, however, watched many dealers play/pass very quickly given coin show constraints of time, space, and research ability (internet connection can slow auction archive research, for example).
I have helped out at a coin store and had many "how much is this worth" questions, and assisted the owners with making offers based on a quick scan of auction/ebay records, or knowing their "back of spot or greysheet" offers.
GSAs, OBW rolls, Seated, Walkers. Anything old and Colorado-focused, CO nationals.
so........................ collectors seem to dislike when a dealer asks them how much they want for a coin. I wonder if it is news to collectors that one thing dealers dislike is when collectors "shop around" for the best price??
when I look at coins as a collector/buyer I typically assess the coin I'm interested in, check that against a price and then ask a simple question --- "What's your best price?"
to my way of thinking working for my boss, when a dealer/buyer asks "What do you need for that coin??" they have just expressed an interest in buying it, perhaps tipping their hand and giving the seller an advantage. it is the exact reverse of my "What's your best price approach?" above.
just as dealer should be able to make an offer on an item by referencing a price guide somewhere, a seller should have that information at the top of their head when they offer a coin for sale to a dealer.
to do otherwise paints the collector as a little foolish.
An old old story (1988 or so).
Stranger walks up to my table at Long Beach Weds. set-up and offers MS63 Type II gold dollar at $13K with spreads approximately $10K(63) and $15K(64). After a bit of back and forth, I offer him $11K and he walks away.
On Saturday morning, he shows up and says he wants to take my $11k offer.
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@ColonelJessup said:
An old old story (1988 or so).
Stranger walks up to my table at Long Beach Weds. set-up and offers MS63 Type II gold dollar at $13K with spreads approximately $10K(63) and $15K(64). After a bit of back and forth, I offer him $11K and he walks away.
On Saturday morning, he shows up and says he wants to take my $11k offer.
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
So, did he accept your low ball offer?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I've often gone to the HA table at major shows, their offers are fair and market honest. They put a pricing sticker on the coins, which is very helpful. The biggest fish don't get upset over sellers who sell to other dealers as they get enough offers and buys to justify their energy expended on offers.
I don't get angry if a dealer asks me what I want for a coin if I am selling it to him. I believe that a seller, who is an experienced collector, should have done their homework and have an idea as what they are selling is worth. If you are dealing with novice, who has no idea what they are doing, that is a different story because grading and prices are well beyound the ablities of the general public.
The thing that ticks me off is the dealer who asks me what I want to pay right off the bat. A dealer should tell you what they want for their coins. If you have been going back and forth on the price, and the dealer asks that question, it's okay given the context.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I think the seller is generally the person who should respond with the first price in a sales negotiation.
That said, even as a seller, I try to avoid the question as generally the first person who speaks in a price negotiation is in the weaker position. Sometimes that works, other times it does, so if pressed as a seller I will respond with an asking price (with some room for a negotiation).
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
Probably more than he is willing to pay is what usually goes through my mind. Last time I had a table at a show, a dealer picked out the/some cherries and asked me to price them. i didn't budge much from my "sticker" price. Wasn't too keen on selling at little or no profit [or loss] and then have him put them in his case at the same or higher price. Actually ended up selling them after the show.
The thing that ticks me off is the dealer who asks me what I want to pay right off the bat. A dealer should tell you what they want for their coins. If you have been going back and forth on the price, and the dealer asks that question, it's okay given the context.
Unless it is unique or will take years to find another nice exemplar, no price means no interest from me.
@jayPem said:
Above post nails it.
Education provided for free...
My math says that education cost him $1500...
If he didn't accept the dealers low ball offer, how did he lose $1500?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm scratching my head at this. Why in the world would anyone be offended?? I don't get it.
As a seller I should have at least my bottom line price in my head. If I don't, I'm a idiot. The dealer is under no obligation to "school" me (thou I would be very grateful to gain any new knowledge). If it's my coin, I should be expected to know at least something about it. What's that saying..."buy the book before the coin". Sorry, I just think some people just need to relax, this world would be better for it.
@ColonelJessup said:
An old old story (1988 or so).
Stranger walks up to my table at Long Beach Weds. set-up and offers MS63 Type II gold dollar at $13K with spreads approximately $10K(63) and $15K(64). After a bit of back and forth, I offer him $11K and he walks away.
On Saturday morning, he shows up and says he wants to take my $11k offer.
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
Dang that was funny!
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@ColonelJessup said:
An old old story (1988 or so).
Stranger walks up to my table at Long Beach Weds. set-up and offers MS63 Type II gold dollar at $13K with spreads approximately $10K(63) and $15K(64). After a bit of back and forth, I offer him $11K and he walks away.
On Saturday morning, he shows up and says he wants to take my $11k offer.
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
So, did he accept your low ball offer?
If he had, would I not have already been bragging?
With the ironic perfection of an apochryphal Forum story, @cnncoins at the next table then paid $9850 and got the upgrade.
But, in reality, that was another coin
(or several)
(as he has often reminded me )
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I think if your going offer a coin to a dealer you should be able to give an answer. I would suggest a number that is around 95 pct cdn bid or lower.
He may not be familiar with what the issue bids for or unsure if buying period.
Sometimes there is a big gap between blue and grey and he wants c where u are. Not generally a buyer in these instances unless close to blue. That’s assuming I even want the coin.
Whatever I am offered I try think of what can sell for first before just jumping on it.
The only way to take that question as being a problem is if you are approaching the negotiation with the dealer as an adversarial encounter. As a negotiator who hates to play games, this approach prevents any hard feelings and many misunderstandings. As the owner of the coin you have the right to ask whatever price you want for the coin. If you think it is PQ, special, whatever you can ask the price you deem appropriate. The dealer can then choose to pass, play or counter. If the dealer passes, nobody's feelings are hurt and you can move on to another dealer. If they buy it, great you got what you want. If they counter, then you can choose what you want to do. More often than not a dealer will only counter if you are within range of what they are willing to pay. If you are out of line, they can be friendly and just pass.
On the flip side, if you say you don't know what you want. They quote a price that is in your opinion too low, the temptation is not to just pass. The temptation is to get into an argument with them or complain that you were lowballed online. They might not agree with the salability, the quality, whatever. While it is their right to offer whatever they like, often the result is hard feelings and anger.
I can't count the number of times when I asked someone how much they are looking for, they said I don't know or I haven't done any research. I do the research, quote a reasonable number and then magically they start quoting their research. Whether the research was well intentioned or not, and whether or not the research was good or not becomes irrelevant. The entire negotiation started with a lie and that taints the entire encounter. If you think you are leaving 50% on the table, then you either need to do better research or talk to a friend who can. Sure there are predators out there but in the end most dealers are reasonable and want to work with you.
In a dealer-to-dealer situation, I was once chided
"You go through a double-row and only take two quotes. All you want is crack-outs"
To which I responded
"So quote me more"
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
a good example of "shopping around" which isn't really a good approach. we refer to the lower price offered as stupid tax. that will upset some people but the truth often hurts before it sets you free.
@keets said: I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
a good example of "shopping around" which isn't really a good approach. we refer to the lower price offered as stupid tax. that will upset some people but the truth often hurts before it sets you free.
It's because of these dealer games that I would sell an expensive coin such as this one in an auction such as Great Collections. Let all the interested dealers compete against the interested coin collectors.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@keets said: I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
a good example of "shopping around" which isn't really a good approach. we refer to the lower price offered as stupid tax. that will upset some people but the truth often hurts before it sets you free.
It's because of these dealer games that I would sell an expensive coin such as this one in an auction such as Great Collections. Let all the interested dealers compete against the interested coin collectors.
I bought a Columbian half from GC last week for $140. I sold it this week on eBay for $230.
If you had offered it to me over the counter, I would have paid $160 or $170 - without any auction fees coming out of your pocket.
@keets said: I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
a good example of "shopping around" which isn't really a good approach. we refer to the lower price offered as stupid tax. that will upset some people but the truth often hurts before it sets you free.
I find it funny that as a dealer, you think shopping a coin around is a bad thing. Do you ever do any type of price comparisons or shopping around when you're buying a car, furniture or any item for that matter? In life, I typically decide I'm going to buy something, and just buy it, even with bigger items like vehicles. However, i see no harm in shopping an item around to get the best price, assuming Dealer #1 didn't already offer me a good price.
Comments
You know what’s worse than a dealer asking how much a collector wants for a coin (which is a perfectly valid question, IMO)? When that dealer makes an offer, and then that collector uses that offer against every dealer in the show to try to get more money. That’s scummy.
If you walk around and an entire show and can’t sell what you have, it’s either not as nice as you think it is or you probably screwed up step 2.
Dempsey & Baxter Rare Coins
6032 Peach Street
Erie, PA 16509
Why is a simple question so hard to answer?
Coin Owner: What will you give me for this coin?
Dealer's response: Just give a number, no adjectives, no well, since, etc.
If the coin owner asks "Why?" then let the fluff begin.
I remember Basic Training.
We had a choice of 4 answers:
Yes, Drill Sergeant
No, Drill Sergeant
No excuse, Drill Sergeant
Drill Sergeant, I do not understand
Nothing else. Simple digital, no analog answers.
Could be the dealer indecisive if wants to buy your item or buy period.
Dealer fishing for an easy buck hoping you are a hayseed collector... Quote a decent sell price , most dealers will say pass . unless he needs the coin for a customer
Even worse is when the collector tells every other dealer in the show how much you offered. If I offered someone $1,000 for a coin, the collector told the other dealer what my offer was, then the other dealer offered $1,010 and bought the coin, IMO that takes unfair advantage of my knowledge. If you want to offer the coin around, at least be fair to the dealer who has made the first offer.
This is why some dealers specify that their offers expire when you leave their table.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Old thread with some members who have faded away....Makes me a bit sad when I go through these old posts... there were some great contributors over the years..... sorry we lost them. Cheers, RickO
I told a guy last week in the B&M that I would sell him ( a $100 coin) , for less than he wants to sell it to me for ($200).
He left with a new perspective , as well as ... a crappy disposition. . Then I went to Ebay and saw I could buy a dozen similar examples for under $75.
If you want to offer the coin around, at least be fair to the dealer who has made the first offer.
I think this is very fair and reasonable to expect.
I do disagree that it's 'scummy' to shop something around for the best offer.
I acquired a small lot of Confederate currency and misc broken bank notes in a large all-or-nothing estate purchase. I didn't really have the time or resources to research them.
The first dealer at a show offered $550 for the lot, which I passed on. I later decided to keep the misc notes and only sell the Confederate notes, and showed them to three other dealers, eventually selling the lot for >$1000. And some of the dealers ASKED who else made offers and how much, and I would not divulge that.
I agree with Walkerguy21D. Thanks for posting.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
But.... if I quote my "ask" please don't just say "PASS" without any further comment or dialogue or you have just made my always pass show rule.
Try flipping it around. If you walked up to a dealer and there were no prices on the coin, would you want him to answer your question "what do you need on that coin?"
If you are selling a coin to a dealer, YOU are now the dealer and he is the buyer.
From the dealer side, sometimes I'm just trying to find out if it's worth a negotiation, especially if it is something I don't really care to put in inventory. I'll buy ANYTHING at the RIGHT PRICE. But if you walk up with a BU roll of 1956 wheat cents and want full greysheet bid or even 20% back of full greysheet bid, I'm going to tell you that it is not for me.
You also have to realize that some people have really inflated ideas of what their stuff is worth. I had a guy with a bunch of polished common date Morgan dollars a couple years back. I offered him $16 each. He got mad and told me that all Morgans were worth at least $25. My fair offer made him mad because his expectations were mis-informed. If I started with "what do you need on those?", I would have found out that he was not someone with whom I wanted to dicker.
So use it as a teachable moment? Tell the truth...
"It's a common date Morgan that was over dipped in the past. If I buy it from you I'll be lucky to get $30 for it, so I can't offer more than $20 and stay in business."
"It's not a series I know about, so I'd have to offer based on the graysheet and hope to be able to sell near that price."
"It's not something I can sell"
What I hate is your setting an absurd low ball price knowing you have no clue and but figuring you will wholesale across the aisle for $5 more. Tell me to go over there.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
When they do that, I always say this and go from there
But truthfully, If I have a realistic price set in my head after some research, I'll say so, But I have always
tried to fish for an offer first.
Steve
Seems like a question that can be asked from both sides of the table.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
I usually just put a sticker on the back of the slab (like many dealers do) with my asking price. The price is what I want (that I'm comfortable with) based on things like the particular coin, popularity, graysheet, etc. If I'm not comfortable that I have enough info to stick a price on a particular coin, I'll sometimes ask a knowledgeable and trusted dealer for his "opinion" (what should I be able to get for this coin) before pricing it. I usually sell about half my coins for my asking price without negotiations, the other half will often get counteroffers that are slightly lower. I have never got an offer for more than I was asking.
Many people don't have negotiation skills, don't realize that many prices are negotiable. One thing you learn on ebay, often "buy it now with offers" listings just get people pressing the buy now button without seeing if there are lower prices on that. But Empire Diamond used to advertise saying it was unethical for knowledgeable pros to ask customers walking in to sell "how much do you want for that?" It all depends on what it is and knowledge is vital will sellers.
When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"
A diplomatic response would be: "I need x but I believe y (somewhat more than x) is a fair price. This assumes everyone has done their homework.
In my opinion, this should work:
If the dealer offers x then the seller should be free to shop it to the room without crabbiness. If the dealer offers more than x then the seller should be prepared to lose the dealer's offer if he leaves the table.
I guess I haven't made it to the modern digital world of 1 and 0 square waves. When I "answer" verbally, no matter what I "say" it comes out as a analog sine wave. Or maybe you mean by "simple digital" your answer is given by using a single finger representing the number one?
If you come up to my table and offer to sell me something I am going to ask you how much it is every time. It is not to "leave money on the table" but to get a sense of how realistic you are in wanting to sell. I know immediately based on that answer, how much work I want to put into pricing out that coin. In order to pay fair, one must do homework. One only has so many hours in the day to do homework. So we only want to do the homework when we know it is worth-while. If that makes me evil, then so be it. But I am a dealer, not someone whose job it is to bail people out of their purchases.
When a Dealer asks "what do you need for that coin"
Generally I just tell him/her.
There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who do not.
I will be happy to price ALL/ANY of my coins...if you want to sell, I think it is fair to have you price your coins. There are always situations where the seller does not really have any idea what the value is, and as a dealer, I am happy to give an offer and explain how I arrived at that number.
If actual transactions considered all the nuances of this thread, the coin biz would slow to a snail's pace.
Pass or play I say, and no hard feelings either way.
If your not comfortable tossing out a number when asked "What do you need"?
You can break the ice by asking "Is Your Daughter Cute"?
Glad to see some additional comment on this resurrected thread. Having only set up at coin club bourses, I haven't been offered much (I haven't displayed a buy-sell-trade sign, either). I do price my coins, so I've done my homework.
I have, however, watched many dealers play/pass very quickly given coin show constraints of time, space, and research ability (internet connection can slow auction archive research, for example).
I have helped out at a coin store and had many "how much is this worth" questions, and assisted the owners with making offers based on a quick scan of auction/ebay records, or knowing their "back of spot or greysheet" offers.
Gonna get me a $50 Octagonal someday. Some. Day.
fat stacks
...I want to hit the OP with a “Like,” but 2004 man?...it feels too much like leaving flowers next to a tombstone
so........................ collectors seem to dislike when a dealer asks them how much they want for a coin. I wonder if it is news to collectors that one thing dealers dislike is when collectors "shop around" for the best price??
when I look at coins as a collector/buyer I typically assess the coin I'm interested in, check that against a price and then ask a simple question --- "What's your best price?"
to my way of thinking working for my boss, when a dealer/buyer asks "What do you need for that coin??" they have just expressed an interest in buying it, perhaps tipping their hand and giving the seller an advantage. it is the exact reverse of my "What's your best price approach?" above.
just as dealer should be able to make an offer on an item by referencing a price guide somewhere, a seller should have that information at the top of their head when they offer a coin for sale to a dealer.
to do otherwise paints the collector as a little foolish.
An old old story (1988 or so).
Stranger walks up to my table at Long Beach Weds. set-up and offers MS63 Type II gold dollar at $13K with spreads approximately $10K(63) and $15K(64). After a bit of back and forth, I offer him $11K and he walks away.
On Saturday morning, he shows up and says he wants to take my $11k offer.
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
Above post nails it.
Education provided for free...
So, did he accept your low ball offer?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I've often gone to the HA table at major shows, their offers are fair and market honest. They put a pricing sticker on the coins, which is very helpful. The biggest fish don't get upset over sellers who sell to other dealers as they get enough offers and buys to justify their energy expended on offers.
I don't get angry if a dealer asks me what I want for a coin if I am selling it to him. I believe that a seller, who is an experienced collector, should have done their homework and have an idea as what they are selling is worth. If you are dealing with novice, who has no idea what they are doing, that is a different story because grading and prices are well beyound the ablities of the general public.
The thing that ticks me off is the dealer who asks me what I want to pay right off the bat. A dealer should tell you what they want for their coins. If you have been going back and forth on the price, and the dealer asks that question, it's okay given the context.
I think the seller is generally the person who should respond with the first price in a sales negotiation.
That said, even as a seller, I try to avoid the question as generally the first person who speaks in a price negotiation is in the weaker position. Sometimes that works, other times it does, so if pressed as a seller I will respond with an asking price (with some room for a negotiation).
Probably more than he is willing to pay is what usually goes through my mind. Last time I had a table at a show, a dealer picked out the/some cherries and asked me to price them. i didn't budge much from my "sticker" price. Wasn't too keen on selling at little or no profit [or loss] and then have him put them in his case at the same or higher price. Actually ended up selling them after the show.
"You can't afford that." I learned that gem from one of TDN's posts.
Unless it is unique or will take years to find another nice exemplar, no price means no interest from me.
My math says that education cost him $1500...
If he didn't accept the dealers low ball offer, how did he lose $1500?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I'm scratching my head at this. Why in the world would anyone be offended?? I don't get it.
As a seller I should have at least my bottom line price in my head. If I don't, I'm a idiot. The dealer is under no obligation to "school" me (thou I would be very grateful to gain any new knowledge). If it's my coin, I should be expected to know at least something about it. What's that saying..."buy the book before the coin". Sorry, I just think some people just need to relax, this world would be better for it.
"Run Fluffy, Run !"
Dang that was funny!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
If he had, would I not have already been bragging?
With the ironic perfection of an apochryphal Forum story, @cnncoins at the next table then paid $9850 and got the upgrade.
)
But, in reality, that was another coin
(or several)
(as he has often reminded me
I think if your going offer a coin to a dealer you should be able to give an answer. I would suggest a number that is around 95 pct cdn bid or lower.
He may not be familiar with what the issue bids for or unsure if buying period.
Sometimes there is a big gap between blue and grey and he wants c where u are. Not generally a buyer in these instances unless close to blue. That’s assuming I even want the coin.
Whatever I am offered I try think of what can sell for first before just jumping on it.
The only way to take that question as being a problem is if you are approaching the negotiation with the dealer as an adversarial encounter. As a negotiator who hates to play games, this approach prevents any hard feelings and many misunderstandings. As the owner of the coin you have the right to ask whatever price you want for the coin. If you think it is PQ, special, whatever you can ask the price you deem appropriate. The dealer can then choose to pass, play or counter. If the dealer passes, nobody's feelings are hurt and you can move on to another dealer. If they buy it, great you got what you want. If they counter, then you can choose what you want to do. More often than not a dealer will only counter if you are within range of what they are willing to pay. If you are out of line, they can be friendly and just pass.
On the flip side, if you say you don't know what you want. They quote a price that is in your opinion too low, the temptation is not to just pass. The temptation is to get into an argument with them or complain that you were lowballed online. They might not agree with the salability, the quality, whatever. While it is their right to offer whatever they like, often the result is hard feelings and anger.
I can't count the number of times when I asked someone how much they are looking for, they said I don't know or I haven't done any research. I do the research, quote a reasonable number and then magically they start quoting their research. Whether the research was well intentioned or not, and whether or not the research was good or not becomes irrelevant. The entire negotiation started with a lie and that taints the entire encounter. If you think you are leaving 50% on the table, then you either need to do better research or talk to a friend who can. Sure there are predators out there but in the end most dealers are reasonable and want to work with you.
@Greeniejr that's an insightful post, at least for me.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
In a dealer-to-dealer situation, I was once chided
"You go through a double-row and only take two quotes. All you want is crack-outs"
To which I responded
"So quote me more"
I tell him 50 other dealers have passed at that price and I'll pay him $9500.
Next........
a good example of "shopping around" which isn't really a good approach. we refer to the lower price offered as stupid tax. that will upset some people but the truth often hurts before it sets you free.
It's because of these dealer games that I would sell an expensive coin such as this one in an auction such as Great Collections. Let all the interested dealers compete against the interested coin collectors.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I bought a Columbian half from GC last week for $140. I sold it this week on eBay for $230.
If you had offered it to me over the counter, I would have paid $160 or $170 - without any auction fees coming out of your pocket.
I find it funny that as a dealer, you think shopping a coin around is a bad thing. Do you ever do any type of price comparisons or shopping around when you're buying a car, furniture or any item for that matter? In life, I typically decide I'm going to buy something, and just buy it, even with bigger items like vehicles. However, i see no harm in shopping an item around to get the best price, assuming Dealer #1 didn't already offer me a good price.