YAPAT (Yet another Pittsburgh ANA thread) It's long, I was there 5 days. You've been warned.
kranky
Posts: 8,709 ✭✭✭
First, I can't speak indepth to what's hot/what's not. Sorry, I know that's what a lot of you want to know, but I'm not that well connected.
It was great to meet and talk with over 40 forum members at the show, quite a few of whom I got to meet for the first time:
AACoin, beartracks42, billywls, boiler78, clarkofkent, classics, coinguy1, coppercoins, dcarr, dheath, foodude, golddustin, goose3, griffin6, HartlandMan, IdahoGal, jbsteven, jdimmick, keets, LegendSteve, madmarty, merysu, michael, njcoincrank, numobri, oreville, phillyjoe, pistareen, poptopsrus, pqdollars, quarterjack, RELLA, rkfish, RKKay, tassa, TDN, TexasBullionTrader, timliston, tonelover, tootawl, truthteller, WayneHerndon, zenny. Also got to say hello to BJ and Carol. If I forgot to mention you, shame on me. I tried to keep an accurate list.
I had the pleasure of working with PTVETTER at his table for the show and it was a real treat once again (Thanks again, Pat!) What I did hear about the market was that dealer-to-dealer pricing was firm, and it was hard for dealers to buy without paying strong money. PNG day was strong, with many transactions between dealers going for over Graysheet bid. Sales to the public were also good, but it was dependent on the area. One dealer told me he was actually getting frightened at some of the prices that the public was paying at auction. He had a $6K coin that wasn't attracting interest from dealers, but when it went at auction the same coin sold for nearly $20K!
Richard Nachbar printed up flyers trying to reunite a collection with its rightful owner - someone had brought it to him to sell some time ago at his shop, but suspecting it was stolen he stalled and told the seller he'd have to go through it and the seller would have to come back another time to complete the transaction. The seller never returned, and Nachbar provided some information about the collection so that the rightful owner might be able to come forward, supply enough additional information to confirm ownership, and get it back. Kudos for the effort, Mr. Nachbar.
coppercoins wowed the crowd at the Friday dinner by looking at a slabbed cent that had a normal reverse but where the obverse had been struck with a die cap, thus obliterating any details. In about three seconds (no exaggeration) he nailed the cent as a 1973 from looking only at the reverse, then explained how he knew for a fact it was a 1973. The man knows his Lincolns!
David Hall mentioned at the Set Registry luncheon that a Pattern registry set was coming soon, and that he welcomes all suggestions on how they can improve the Set Registry. BJ had the organization of the luncheon and awards presentations finely honed. He also said that coins submitted for regrade are cracked out and the graders do not see the previous grade of the coin. If it downgrades, PCGS offers a buyback.
There were so many amazing coins it is hard to describe. The three 1866 no-motto coins, two 1804 dollars, 1913 liberty nickels, TDN's amazing complete set of Unc Seated Liberty dollars, the Cardinal Collection.... it was mindblowing. Maybe the most spectacular single coin I saw was a 1922 matte proof Peace dollar. It actually looked like a modern reproduction, it was so clean yet different looking. Robert Lecce had a 1844-O proof gold $10 (ex-Parmalee) on display that had a $2 million tag, but it didn't knock me out like the 1922 matte proof Peace.
Being behind the table led to a few little anecdotes about strange customers.
1. "Do you have any bicentennial quarters?"
No, we don't, sorry.
"I'm trying to corner the market on them."
Well, there were quite a few made. It might be difficult to corner the market.
"You don't have any, do you? It might not be as hard as you think!"
2. Thursday: "How much is that 1916-D Mercury?"
It's $500.
(10 minutes of intense study goes on, then... )"I have a customer who needs one, it's a little high."
The price is firm.
"No, thanks."
Friday, same customer: "How much is that 1916-D Mercury"
It's $500.
(10 minutes of intense study, then....) "OK, I'll take it. " (Customer counts out $450.)
That's only $450.
(Customer points to Pat) "He said $450."
Pat: No, I said $500. I said $500 yesterday too.
"No, you said $450."
Pat: I said $500.
(Customer grumbles to herself, talks to husband for a few seconds, then counts out another $50.)
Hey customer, I hope you're reading this! You're a liar, and a bad one at that!
3. Customer approaches table, looks at me, then says, "Silver coins are crap. Not worth anything."
(I stand there puzzled)
"Only gold coins are worth anything. Silver coins have no value. What's a silver dollar worth, anyway? 50 cents?"
No, there's a few dollars worth of silver in a silver dollar.
"Why is it every time I go to buy a silver coin the dealer always says, 'No one knows how many were melted.' "?
Excuse me?
"If I sold donuts, and you wanted a chocolate-filled donut, I'd be able to tell you what it cost. If I ask you what a coin costs, you always run to the Graysheet."
Excuse me?
"How much gold is in that? (points to $5 gold piece)
Um, about a quarter-ounce.
"Where can I buy gold for a little over melt?"
A lot of gold coins sell for not much over melt.
"How much is that one?"
It's $190.
"What is the mintage?"
(Grabs Red book...) About 1.3 million.
"I want something with a smaller mintage." Leaves table.
4. Customer comes up and selects some early BU Lincolns and asks the price. Pat figures it up and the customer says he wants the dealer price because he's buying inventory for a new shop. Pat hands "dealer" a tax-exempt form to fill out. Customer has no idea how to complete the form, yet tries to bluff it by writing very fast and very big, as if he has done thousands of them.
GSAGUY was paged a couple of times, both under his real name and under the name "GSAGUY". Unfortunately, he wasn't even at the show!
Jim Halperin won the dealer division of the PCGS grading contest, and TDN won the collector division.
Also, kudos to ksteelheader for a great organizational job on the Friday dinner!
I was glad to be there every day (except Sunday) because it might be a long time before I can get to another ANA show, and I'll hang on to the memories for quite a while.
[edit: added some additional info in another post below]
It was great to meet and talk with over 40 forum members at the show, quite a few of whom I got to meet for the first time:
AACoin, beartracks42, billywls, boiler78, clarkofkent, classics, coinguy1, coppercoins, dcarr, dheath, foodude, golddustin, goose3, griffin6, HartlandMan, IdahoGal, jbsteven, jdimmick, keets, LegendSteve, madmarty, merysu, michael, njcoincrank, numobri, oreville, phillyjoe, pistareen, poptopsrus, pqdollars, quarterjack, RELLA, rkfish, RKKay, tassa, TDN, TexasBullionTrader, timliston, tonelover, tootawl, truthteller, WayneHerndon, zenny. Also got to say hello to BJ and Carol. If I forgot to mention you, shame on me. I tried to keep an accurate list.
I had the pleasure of working with PTVETTER at his table for the show and it was a real treat once again (Thanks again, Pat!) What I did hear about the market was that dealer-to-dealer pricing was firm, and it was hard for dealers to buy without paying strong money. PNG day was strong, with many transactions between dealers going for over Graysheet bid. Sales to the public were also good, but it was dependent on the area. One dealer told me he was actually getting frightened at some of the prices that the public was paying at auction. He had a $6K coin that wasn't attracting interest from dealers, but when it went at auction the same coin sold for nearly $20K!
Richard Nachbar printed up flyers trying to reunite a collection with its rightful owner - someone had brought it to him to sell some time ago at his shop, but suspecting it was stolen he stalled and told the seller he'd have to go through it and the seller would have to come back another time to complete the transaction. The seller never returned, and Nachbar provided some information about the collection so that the rightful owner might be able to come forward, supply enough additional information to confirm ownership, and get it back. Kudos for the effort, Mr. Nachbar.
coppercoins wowed the crowd at the Friday dinner by looking at a slabbed cent that had a normal reverse but where the obverse had been struck with a die cap, thus obliterating any details. In about three seconds (no exaggeration) he nailed the cent as a 1973 from looking only at the reverse, then explained how he knew for a fact it was a 1973. The man knows his Lincolns!
David Hall mentioned at the Set Registry luncheon that a Pattern registry set was coming soon, and that he welcomes all suggestions on how they can improve the Set Registry. BJ had the organization of the luncheon and awards presentations finely honed. He also said that coins submitted for regrade are cracked out and the graders do not see the previous grade of the coin. If it downgrades, PCGS offers a buyback.
There were so many amazing coins it is hard to describe. The three 1866 no-motto coins, two 1804 dollars, 1913 liberty nickels, TDN's amazing complete set of Unc Seated Liberty dollars, the Cardinal Collection.... it was mindblowing. Maybe the most spectacular single coin I saw was a 1922 matte proof Peace dollar. It actually looked like a modern reproduction, it was so clean yet different looking. Robert Lecce had a 1844-O proof gold $10 (ex-Parmalee) on display that had a $2 million tag, but it didn't knock me out like the 1922 matte proof Peace.
Being behind the table led to a few little anecdotes about strange customers.
1. "Do you have any bicentennial quarters?"
No, we don't, sorry.
"I'm trying to corner the market on them."
Well, there were quite a few made. It might be difficult to corner the market.
"You don't have any, do you? It might not be as hard as you think!"
2. Thursday: "How much is that 1916-D Mercury?"
It's $500.
(10 minutes of intense study goes on, then... )"I have a customer who needs one, it's a little high."
The price is firm.
"No, thanks."
Friday, same customer: "How much is that 1916-D Mercury"
It's $500.
(10 minutes of intense study, then....) "OK, I'll take it. " (Customer counts out $450.)
That's only $450.
(Customer points to Pat) "He said $450."
Pat: No, I said $500. I said $500 yesterday too.
"No, you said $450."
Pat: I said $500.
(Customer grumbles to herself, talks to husband for a few seconds, then counts out another $50.)
Hey customer, I hope you're reading this! You're a liar, and a bad one at that!
3. Customer approaches table, looks at me, then says, "Silver coins are crap. Not worth anything."
(I stand there puzzled)
"Only gold coins are worth anything. Silver coins have no value. What's a silver dollar worth, anyway? 50 cents?"
No, there's a few dollars worth of silver in a silver dollar.
"Why is it every time I go to buy a silver coin the dealer always says, 'No one knows how many were melted.' "?
Excuse me?
"If I sold donuts, and you wanted a chocolate-filled donut, I'd be able to tell you what it cost. If I ask you what a coin costs, you always run to the Graysheet."
Excuse me?
"How much gold is in that? (points to $5 gold piece)
Um, about a quarter-ounce.
"Where can I buy gold for a little over melt?"
A lot of gold coins sell for not much over melt.
"How much is that one?"
It's $190.
"What is the mintage?"
(Grabs Red book...) About 1.3 million.
"I want something with a smaller mintage." Leaves table.
4. Customer comes up and selects some early BU Lincolns and asks the price. Pat figures it up and the customer says he wants the dealer price because he's buying inventory for a new shop. Pat hands "dealer" a tax-exempt form to fill out. Customer has no idea how to complete the form, yet tries to bluff it by writing very fast and very big, as if he has done thousands of them.
GSAGUY was paged a couple of times, both under his real name and under the name "GSAGUY". Unfortunately, he wasn't even at the show!
Jim Halperin won the dealer division of the PCGS grading contest, and TDN won the collector division.
Also, kudos to ksteelheader for a great organizational job on the Friday dinner!
I was glad to be there every day (except Sunday) because it might be a long time before I can get to another ANA show, and I'll hang on to the memories for quite a while.
[edit: added some additional info in another post below]
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
0
Comments
Cameron Kiefer
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
as i jokingly said before, you should get the ANA award as Host of the Show for your directions and other help. you were an asset to all who attended and needed help. also, Pat should take a bow for allowing us to visit and hang out at his table as much as we did. it was very kind of the organizers to give him one close to the bathrooms and the food!!!!
what about the page for Stu Pidasshole!!!
al h.
Why step over the dollar to get to the cent? Because it's a 55DDO.
Dan
I enjoyed our visits at Pat and BJ's table as much or more than any other thing at the show. You are a gentleman and a good friend.
Gary
Hoot
That was a great report!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Also, thanks for the selected 'conversations' you mentioned. They remind me of some of the dumber people I deal with in my accounting practice. Fortunately, this sort of thing is rare for me.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I would like to thank Kranky and vam44 for all thier help at the table what a great people they are. The world would be a better place with more people like them.
Just a small side note, PQ's dollars are SOOOO nice BEST quality I have ever seen (not just the higest grade but truly PQ coins in each grade) better than most dealers and collectors.
one more day and then all the fun is over
You have given a great report.Let me add that you have met and learned from some of the best.The collectors that you met can give you as much knowledge as the the dealers,if you listen.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
<< <i>HEY!!! What am I? Chopped Liver??? >>
No, Your dogmeat!!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Glad to hear the show was alive and upbeat.
roadrunner
I also posted this on Keets thread,
I think these show reports are very important to all members here. Many of us just cannot make many of these major shows, and lots goes on at the shows.
I think we need to have a designated reporter that takes pictures etc. anyone want to volunteer?
"That $50 less scam was played on me 2 weeks ago at a show. I guess it's going around the country."
RR ,
I guess I must live in a different world, are there really people that play a whole game to just try to get $50 off a $500 coin?
That $50 less scam was played on me 2 weeks ago at a show. I guess it's going around the country.
I saw it played out as the "$100 less scam" at a dealer's table right before my eyes. The scammer tried to tell the seller that the partner quoted him $100 less. The seller replied that that would beless than the seller paid for the coin, the partner confirmed that he never quoted the lower price, and the buyer paid up. Very slimy.
As a buyer, I generally try to know as best I can what something is worth, try to deal only with a handful of sellers, and either pay the quoted price or pass. It's easier that way on everyone.
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
... Catch, many years ago at one of the Pacific NW shows I was watching this happen ... I had actually been talking with the dealer when it started ... and the guy (who we had never seen before) was trying to scam for a 100. on a 600. coin ... same scenario ... dealer said $600. ... guy says you just said $500. ...
Anyway, after looking over at me and rolling his eyes once, and then giving me a wink ... the dealer cleared his throat and calmly says,
"Sorry, I must have made a mistake. I quoted $500. to my friend here (gesturing to me) for this coin before you came up." This was a lie, but a good one, all things considered as the guy was becoming a bit beligerent. "He said he'd be interested in it at that level, and since I know his intenet was to resell the coin, I would never have offered it to you at the same price, especially since he is a good customer of mine and after he had just shown an interest. However when you approached and looked at the coin I made sure he was okay with not purchasing it by nodding to him, and he confirmed by nodding back, giving me the go ahead to show it to you."
He paused for effect.
"I quoted you $600., of that I am sure. However, to make things fair I'll let him decide what the price should be, and you can take it or leave it." He gestured back to me.
It was all I could do to keep a straight face. "$750.," I said.
We never saw him again.
“We are only their care-takers,” he posed, “if we take good care of them, then centuries from now they may still be here … ”
Todd - BHNC #242
Don't apologize for its length - I like long reports!
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>HEY!!! What am I? Chopped Liver??? >>
For all to know, I bought some great coins at Pat's table. I'll post pics later in the week!
By the way, Kranky, the restaurant you recommended last night was excellent!
Ken
I'd like to thank Ken also. It was a great time. There were around 30 people there.
Great report Kranky.
We'll use our hands and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads.
A few more observations to pass along. The ANA did a great job of supporting the YNs. My brother brought his 10-year-old son and he could hardly carry everything they gave him. First, each YN that attended one of the presentations was given a zippered bag that had sample copies of some magazines along with a 2003 Red book and some coins. The ANA also sponsored a "Treasure Trivia" game. Each YN was given some numbered Trivial Pursuit style cards and each card had a multiple choice coin question. If the YN didn't know the answer, he/she could go to the dealer's table that displayed that card number and be told the answer. Many of the participating dealers would also give a coin to each YN who stopped. (A salute to jbsteven for being one of the participants.) Once all the questions were answered, the cards were turned in and the YN was given a NGC-slabbed Florida quarter with a special YN Treasure Trivia label.
Credit to keets who spotted a so-called dollar that another member had asked me to track down at the show. Great show reports, too, Al.
Talked to someone who was a very serious collector in a particular specialty. He shared his frustration at having coins offered to him at huge premiums over the coin's value (like 25% more on a five-figure coin), because the dealers know what he collects and they think he'll bite. I never imagined that scenario, but when I thought about it I guess it's not that surprising.
The bourse floor had a section for dealers who didn't sell coins over $500. It was very well attended throughout the show, and not just by YNs. It was nice that the ANA had the US Mint and BEP booths in the corners in that part of the show, which helped to draw people over to that area.
Aside from pure coin dealers, there were bourse tables for a number of different regional and specialty clubs, book and supply dealers, about a dozen mints from different countries, dealers selling microscopes and specialty photography lighting equipment, a few dealers with jewelry, and another bourse section for Ancient and World dealers.
Best non-coin item I saw for sale: small cases issued to U.S. pilots flying WWII missions over Europe. The case contained three larger and two smaller gold coins from Britain, France, and other countries, along with two gold rings. The idea was that if a pilot got shot down, he'd have something to use to barter for food, shelter and potential rescue. The cases still had the gold coins and rings, and some of them even were unopened. Very cool, and I thought about getting one but they seemed a bit pricey.
Had a great conversation with State Quarter designer Daniel Carr (Maine, Rhode Island, NY). I spotted his name tag and I just stopped him in the hall and introduced myself. He let me check out a couple metal prototypes made on a CNC machine for his proposed Nevada quarter design, and let me see some satirical designs he did as well. His Wisconsin design was fabulous - reminiscent of the "defiant eagle" patterns. It put the chosen design to shame.
One guy showed me an interesting slab collection he is doing. He's collecting different slab types from PCGS and NGC, but with a great twist - they all have the same coin in the same grade! Perfectly matched coins, but all different slabs!
ksteelheader, thanks for letting me know you liked Del's!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Great stories
My posts viewed
since 8/1/6
It was good to see you again and talk coins !! It was also good to meet Pat and his better half for the first
time and "thank you" Pat for the kind words about our DOLLARS !! We appreciate it greatly !! I was standing
at the table when Kranky was selling the 16d and watch the deal go down......no doubt what was happening
here....the krank and Pat handled it very well.
try and mention everyone I met. I especially enjoyed talking to Jim, Pat, VAM44 at Pat's table.
Best non-coin item I saw for sale: small cases issued to U.S. pilots flying WWII missions over Europe. The case contained three larger and two smaller gold coins from Britain, France, and other countries, along with two gold rings
I also saw these at Jason's table and thought they were very COOL !!
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
Perhaps someone should ask Kranky about his Sat dinner experience!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
Marty also showed me a dealer with a hollowed out (Morgan?) used as an opium container. Very cool and very collectible.
And at the risk of being banned for life:
Kranky is anything but.
Frank wouldn't hump a flea.
Tassa has never slapped anyone in her life.
Marty is not mad. OCD yes, but not mad.
And Traci, remember, what happens in Pittsburgh, stays in Pittsburgh.
Joe
<< <i>I think Kranky should get an award for meeting so many of us in alphabetical order. >>
You think that was easy? I had to ignore zenny for three days before I could talk to him!
<< <i>Ok......I'll bite......tell us about your Saturday night dinner experience kranky..... >>
Sigh. I was trying to block the memory. It wasn't just a bad dinner, it was a nightmare.
I was with a board member and since I was local, I wanted to allow him to choose the type of restaurant. This was a mistake, since I was out of my element. Asian was the choice, I knew where there was an Indian place, and we headed out. Across the street from the Indian was a Thai restaurant. Their sign said it was voted one of the top 10 Thai restaurants in the US. So we went there instead of to the Indian restaurant.
Their sign was, apparently, a monumental lie.
I have not eaten Thai food enough to know any better, so I cheerily ate whatever it was I ordered. My dinner guest, on the other hand, was horrified at the food from the moment it hit the table, but was gracious enough to eat some of it. I felt terrible. The impression I got was that the food was a couple levels below prepackaged vending machine stuff that you heat in a microwave before eating. In retrospect, I should have cut our losses and bailed to the Indian place across the street.
This probably sums it up: my non-smoking guest asked me for a cigarette as we exited, saying "Anything to get this taste out of my mouth."
I've learned my lesson, though, and I will never again take a guest to a restaurant I haven't personally tried before or at least was recommended to me. It was the last activity associated with the show for me (I couldn't go on Sunday) and up until then things had gone really well.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
<< <i>Appleby's is not so bad after all huh...........
Yeah, but imagine if you thought you were going to the Blue Marlin, and it turned out to be like Shealy's!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
It seems like you tried your best to be a gracious host for your friend, and he's possibly just a bit too particular about his food. I'm sure he appreciated the effort and the company.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com