regional airports have smaller planes and smaller overhead bins
large? did they rebuild ontario? i went through there 20 years ago and they had 2 escalators up to the gates and 2 metal detectors (one of which did not detect my half pound of change in my pocket)
For Winter FUN that just passed, I stayed at the Orlando Hilton (one of the two hotels closest to the Convention Center). I believe the rate arranged through FUN was only around $215 or so. But then there’s taxes added on.
Steve
A day without fine wine and working on your coin collection is like a day without sunshine!!!
I should probably keep my mouth shut. I have never been to a coin show and I am not that smart, but every time I see one of these convention posts I think of my friend Dwayne. He owns a Livestock Auction Barn. A couple times a year they have what is called a producers show. At a producer show they require every producer to do the following. They have to bring a few of their best stock (cattle, horses, pigs , lambs etc.) to the show. They have the animals on exhibit at the barn but the animals are also part of a live internet auction that identifies each producer and where his exhibit is.
This approach means individual producers are identified in the live internet but you also have the opportunity of attending and walking the barn or ;being able to participate online. I think it is a great marriage of the internet to the self promoting aspects of the actual show. James
For Winter FUN that just passed, I stayed at the Orlando Hilton (one of the two hotels closest to the Convention Center). I believe the rate arranged through FUN was only around $215 or so.
I always stay at the Rosen Centre - the basic rate for the FUN show is $198 (plus the addons). It's convenient to the Convention Center plus it has a Walgreens Pharmacy right across the street along with several restaurants.
I went to my first Long Beach in June1980.
Didn't go for a few years then regularly beginning February 1985 until the Covid close down. Last time I attended was October 2021.
Too bad things have evolved to where they are now. Some of my best memories are from the Long Beach shows over the years. ( A side note: The Santa Clara shows were really enjoyable as the buying could be very good.)
The showrunners should consider moving it to Phoenix around spring training. It's roughly 5 1/2 hours distance from Long Beach and Las Vegas, will be more affordable and the weather will be fantastic in February/ March.
Inland empire is growing like the san fernado valley!!
Lived in Reseda for over 31 years. I was a fixture at LB for many years, back then it was a great show, 4 times a year.
Left CA in 2015 and never looked back.
I only remember three shows a year (back to the 80’s?) in February, June and September. How long ago were there four?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Inland empire is growing like the san fernado valley!!
Lived in Reseda for over 31 years. I was a fixture at LB for many years, back then it was a great show, 4 times a year.
Left CA in 2015 and never looked back.
I only remember three shows a year (back to the 80’s?) in February, June and September. How long ago were there four?
He may be thinking of the fairly large foreign/world show that was held at the Beach in December(?) back in the day.
I calculated that I have spent well over a year of my life in Long Beach hotels -- others have easily exceeded that milestone.
So many memories. The June 2005 Long Beach Expo was my first coin show. I worked there for many, many years, and have lots of good memories schmoozing with dealers and my colleagues on the show floor. Here's my goofy exhibitor badge.
Phil Arnold Director of Photography, GreatCollections
greatcollections.com
I think the obvious solution to things is to have multiple shows in more of the most expensive venues in some of the most expensive cities, that way all the dealers and "clients" can feel good about themselves and celebrate their wealth. It's absolutely ridiculous anymore and why I gave up on attending major regional/national shows almost 20 years ago. As a collector of modest means I simply could not justify spending $1,500-$2,000 to possibly be able to purchase something. Things have just gotten too cost prohibitive.
Reading many of the replies describes a beast which has decided to cannibalize itself for the good of nobody.
@krueger said:
Large Ontario convention center
Right Next to large regional ontario airport
Lots of hotels and eateries
Everything much cheaper!!!!
35 miles from downtown LA.
Why they have not gone there yet is amazing. Everything In their back yard.
Beach areas getting way to expensiive.
Inland empire is growing like the san fernado valley!!
Look into it PCGS——
They had a show there 10-12 years ago and thought it was a dud from what I remember.
Although, things could change without LB.
Early Thursday flight from OAK to LGB
Uber to the Convention to be there for the 10 AM opening
Peruse the show for approximately two - three hours (pick-ups, drop-offs, purchases, etc)
Grab some lunch at Naree Thai on Ocean Blvd
Back to the show for a couple hours
Uber back to LGB
Late afternoon flight from LGB to OAK
Home in time for dinner
I've been attending Long Beach for many years. Met JOM (and others) there a number of times. Met Walter Breen and bought his Coin Encyclopedia there as well as Bill Noyes and bought one of his books on Large Cents. The energy level is definitely not what it was in the 1990s.
That said, it's a 1/2 hour drive, and the only larger show around here. I stopped attending local shows because they just didn't have enough material that interested me. I get so see some of my favorite people in the hobby at Long Beach, and unless I got on a plane and traveled to another location to attend a show, I'd never see them.
I don't buy / sell enough to get on a plane, take a number of days out my my schedule, and travel to a show. If Long Beach goes adios, someone who offers me a coin will have to send it to someone I trust, or see them at a show for them to inspect the coin and get back to me. Don't like buying with a return privilege, and will never buy a coin sight unseen.
Also, if you're looking at what for you is an expensive coin, you really need to see it in hand, or have someone you trust see it for you. Images don't tell the whole story. Don't get me started on that.
Some people are buying pretty and expensive coins that are not original. I don't want these coins. You need to see many coins to develop this knowledge and be able to make this determination. At a largish show, if you know people, someone you trust can give you a second opinion by looking at said coin.
Just a thought: I work and live near LAX. There are a huge slew of Airport Hotels on Century Boulevard and nearby. I don't know what are their seasonal occupancy rates and pricing. But surely most could accommodate a coin show the size of Long Beach. And I imagine they could offer reasonable rates outside of the tourist season. You can catch a shuttle directly to pretty much any / all of these hotels from the arrival terminal at LAX.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@pointfivezero said:
I'll miss the show. Just had my routine down:
Early Thursday flight from OAK to LGB
Uber to the Convention to be there for the 10 AM opening
Peruse the show for approximately two - three hours (pick-ups, drop-offs, purchases, etc)
Grab some lunch at Naree Thai on Ocean Blvd
Back to the show for a couple hours
Uber back to LGB
Late afternoon flight from LGB to OAK
Home in time for dinner
Tim
It's a shame you made such a terrible mistake for many years as the clear winner for lunch is Sura Korean BBQ on Atlantic.
@Elcontador I like your idea in theory but ugh LAX....just miserable. LGB is such a nice change of pace from a big airport. I prefer the Ontario option mentioned earlier.
@PhilArnold said:
So many memories. The June 2005 Long Beach Expo was my first coin show. I worked there for many, many years, and have lots of good memories schmoozing with dealers and my colleagues on the show floor. Here's my goofy exhibitor badge.
Then what did you look like after you got the GC job?
@Mr_Colombo said:
The showrunners should consider moving it to Phoenix around spring training. It's roughly 5 1/2 hours distance from Long Beach and Las Vegas, will be more affordable and the weather will be fantastic in February/ March.
And no sales tax on coins. I was looking into a group to create an annual or semiannual (Spring/Fall) show there, but I probably am going to disengage for a while soon enough. Still a possibility.
Bummer. I’ve been to many shows, but probably over half that I’ve attended were at Long Beach. The old auctions were great. Like others have said, it was an easy day or two-day trip for me to the LGB airport. Many good memories.
Inland empire is growing like the san fernado valley!!
Lived in Reseda for over 31 years. I was a fixture at LB for many years, back then it was a great show, 4 times a year.
Left CA in 2015 and never looked back.
I only remember three shows a year (back to the 80’s?) in February, June and September. How long ago were there four?
@Elcontador said:
I've been attending Long Beach for many years. Met JOM (and others) there a number of times. Met Walter Breen and bought his Coin Encyclopedia there as well as Bill Noyes and bought one of his books on Large Cents. The energy level is definitely not what it was in the 1990s.
Yeah, this is a real bummer but I do understand the issues. I really do miss the "good ol' days". Seeing you, Margulis, Braddick and all the rest. This is such a shame but the slow fall off before COVID and the rapid fall off since made this inevitable.
PCGS --- Dont forget the Anahiem convention center and associated tons of hotels eateries
Angel stadium extremely close as is Disneyland. Safe area!
Confluenses of freeway access.
Finding another location cheaper in the area should be no problem.
When I thought about this 'pause' to the Long Beach (LB) show it reminded me of weight savings tasks on some projects. Where many ideas are open for consideration but to implement the idea it has to pass program criteria for perhaps money spent upfront to savings downstream (one of many potential criteria).
With the LB show it appears someone near the top said shut it down (or 'pause') and possibly demonstrate the alternatives. To be clear I know neither of those to have happened but using for example here. The 'weight savings' or ideas could be from doing a new LB at a different less expensive venue (hotel convention center...) to a new LB and partnering with someone to do the running and execution of the new LB show.
However, taking from last year where it appeared PCGS upped the focus on 'submission only' shows and kept the members only shows going (link below for last year), then might consider taking table(s) at a larger local show or two and doing submissions only. In the past PCGS did some local submission Friday (I think it was Friday) at a hotel where only PCGS was there to take submissions. Currently for 2025 PCGS has one for PAN and TNA on the schedule for late May. And then of course perhaps a member only show locally.
Could be interesting to see what comes about in 2025 and 2026 with respect to what is next after the LB 'pause'. But I am currently thinking like a 'weight savings' task - demonstrate what should work. PCGS should have good numbers on these offsite submission only shows and the degree to which they could work. The new LB might be more of a risk. But again I have no knowledge either way.
@lilolme said:
When I thought about this 'pause' to the Long Beach (LB) show it reminded me of weight savings tasks on some projects. Where many ideas are open for consideration but to implement the idea it has to pass program criteria for perhaps money spent upfront to savings downstream (one of many potential criteria).
With the LB show it appears someone near the top said shut it down (or 'pause') and possibly demonstrate the alternatives. To be clear I know neither of those to have happened but using for example here. The 'weight savings' or ideas could be from doing a new LB at a different less expensive venue (hotel convention center...) to a new LB and partnering with someone to do the running and execution of the new LB show.
However, taking from last year where it appeared PCGS upped the focus on 'submission only' shows and kept the members only shows going (link below for last year), then might consider taking table(s) at a larger local show or two and doing submissions only. In the past PCGS did some local submission Friday (I think it was Friday) at a hotel where only PCGS was there to take submissions. Currently for 2025 PCGS has one for PAN and TNA on the schedule for late May. And then of course perhaps a member only show locally.
Could be interesting to see what comes about in 2025 and 2026 with respect to what is next after the LB 'pause'. But I am currently thinking like a 'weight savings' task - demonstrate what should work. PCGS should have good numbers on these offsite submission only shows and the degree to which they could work. The new LB might be more of a risk. But again I have no knowledge either way.
Personally, the issue I have with the above is that I go to shows to look at coins sight seen. I don't buy or sell much, will not make a purchase sight unseen from someone I known know very well, and personally don't submit much, either. I submit through Heritage, as I am a legacy client. If I wanted to submit a coin, it's far closer for me to drop it off at their office in Beverly Hills and trek to Orange County.
If you're looking at members only submission shows, people like me won't be going to them. I don't know how many people like me are in the hobby.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
@lilolme said:
When I thought about this 'pause' to the Long Beach (LB) show it reminded me of weight savings tasks on some projects. Where many ideas are open for consideration but to implement the idea it has to pass program criteria for perhaps money spent upfront to savings downstream (one of many potential criteria).
With the LB show it appears someone near the top said shut it down (or 'pause') and possibly demonstrate the alternatives. To be clear I know neither of those to have happened but using for example here. The 'weight savings' or ideas could be from doing a new LB at a different less expensive venue (hotel convention center...) to a new LB and partnering with someone to do the running and execution of the new LB show.
However, taking from last year where it appeared PCGS upped the focus on 'submission only' shows and kept the members only shows going (link below for last year), then might consider taking table(s) at a larger local show or two and doing submissions only. In the past PCGS did some local submission Friday (I think it was Friday) at a hotel where only PCGS was there to take submissions. Currently for 2025 PCGS has one for PAN and TNA on the schedule for late May. And then of course perhaps a member only show locally.
Could be interesting to see what comes about in 2025 and 2026 with respect to what is next after the LB 'pause'. But I am currently thinking like a 'weight savings' task - demonstrate what should work. PCGS should have good numbers on these offsite submission only shows and the degree to which they could work. The new LB might be more of a risk. But again I have no knowledge either way.
Personally, the issue I have with the above is that I go to shows to look at coins sight seen. I don't buy or sell much, will not make a purchase sight unseen from someone I known know very well, and personally don't submit much, either. I submit through Heritage, as I am a legacy client. If I wanted to submit a coin, it's far closer for me to drop it off at their office in Beverly Hills and trek to Orange County.
If you're looking at members only submission shows, people like me won't be going to them. I don't know how many people like me are in the hobby.
Not sure I follow the issue with the above thing. First I am not looking for anything but was simply thinking in terms of a
'weight savings' type event. There will be many people and probably most people who go to shows to look at coins and not submit (this would be me most of the time). This would be part of the 'weight savings' review. That is as noted 'demonstrate the alternatives'. From a new LB to 'submission only' at an existing local show to a submission Friday. Or perhaps you were indicating that I missed one and PCGS decides the area is just not worth the effort (not going to get the participation that they appear to get in other locations). But as noted will be interesting to see what comes.
Ontario Airport is an international airport only other airport near LAX that can land and take off wide bodies it's no small airport.! Fly in and out of there any place you want《
@winesteven said:
For Winter FUN that just passed, I stayed at the Orlando Hilton (one of the two hotels closest to the Convention Center). I believe the rate arranged through FUN was only around $215 or so. But then there’s taxes added on.
Steve
We stayed at the Rosen Centre for $198 a night (plus tax). Loved that hotel and the pool/hot tubs!
<<regional airports have smaller planes and smaller overhead bins
large? did they rebuild ontario? i went through there 20 years ago and they had 2 escalators up to the gates and 2 metal detectors (one of which did not detect my half pound of change in my pocket) >>
Yes Ontario Airport rebuilt greatly and expanded years ago. quite new terminals
Only other Airport in LA area that can take widebody aircraft, very long runways.
foggy at LAX all flights diverted to Ontario! People bussed in from there.
IN 2024. , 5.8 million passengers and growing 10 to 11% every year. .
Large Ontario convention center
Right Next to large international ontario airport
Lots of hotels and eateries
Everything much cheaper!!!!
35 miles from downtown LA.
Why they have not gone there yet is amazing. Everything In their back yard.
Beach areas getting way to expensiive.
Inland empire is growing like the san fernado valley!!
Look into it PCGS——
I attended the show and was glad I did. The LB show was always a fave of mine, so there was a bit of a feeling of nostalgia this time.
Personally, I had a good show - a few nice acquisitions + some fairly large consignments placed with a few dealers. All the dealers I talked to seemed to be having a good show. The number of “YN” dealers I noted seemed to be enjoying the show & their good results. A couple noted it was their first setup.
There were a scattering of empty tables throughout the bourse; however, the show was a bit busier than I anticipated. It was easy to get around & get to see everything; that doesn’t always happen @ the ‘biggies”, like FUN & ANA.
Don't give up hope. There is a need for a national show on the left coast, and while I loved the PNNA show when I worked out there, it really was a super-regional not a national show.
I've seen it before: The HOPE (Hackers On Planet Earth) conference, https://www.hope.net/about.html, had a play on "the last hope", because the hotel was going to be torn down and they didn't have a venue. Then the hotel WASN'T torn down, so they had "the next hope". The hotel survived another 8 years. Then COVID, and 2022 became "A new hope".
Given all the problems the GACCS people are having, maybe they could step in?
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
Don't give up hope. There is a need for a national show on the left coast, and while I loved the PNNA show when I worked out there, it really was a super-regional not a national show.
I've seen it before: The HOPE (Hackers On Planet Earth) conference, https://www.hope.net/about.html, had a play on "the last hope", because the hotel was going to be torn down and they didn't have a venue. Then the hotel WASN'T torn down, so they had "the next hope". The hotel survived another 8 years. Then COVID, and 2022 became "A new hope".
Given all the problems the GACCS people are having, maybe they could step in?
Step in how? Do you think Collectors Universe is resource contrained, or lacks the interest to run a successful show on their home turf?
The issue is that California is a difficult, expensive place to operate. The demand from our hobby is simply insufficient to justify the cost. As evidenced by the fact that CU is shutting it down. Even though they make a ton of money from submissions at the show.
Given that, how on earth is GACC supposed to make it work in CA? They had a hard enough time in Tampa, and then had to cancel Ft. Lauderdale. They can't even get a print magazine out the door.
They're looking for opportunities like Rosemont, to fill a void while the ANA is doing whatever it is that they will be doing in OKC. There is nothing for GACC in CA, if CU cannot make a show work there.
There might be a "need for a national show on the left coast." The problem is, given the cost and the size of the market, it is simply not economically viable for anyone to fill that need.
Dealers aren't going to pay 2x, 3x, etc. of whatever they have been paying for tables to allow promoters to make money, and collectors wouldn't pay sky high admission fees in sufficient numbers to make it work either. As a result, as with so many other things, CA might be a great place to live, but it has apparently priced itself out of the national coin show market.
As implied by the word "national," you need people from all over the country to make it work. And people in most of the rest of the country are simply not going to put up with the cost and inconvenience of going to CA when they have better, less expensive, more convenient alternatives. And then you are left with the west coast regional audience. Which is apparently insufficient to make it work for the promoters.
The big Santa Clara coin show shut down years ago. Nothing similar stepped up to take its place. That show was a day trip for 10-15 million people living in the SF Bay Area and Central Valley towns from Merced/Fresno north to Marysville//Yuba City.
I do not know if things will be different in So. Cal. In the coming years. Doing business in Cal. Is very expensive and as a result many longstanding events put on for decades have chosen to no longer put on those events in the Golden State.
Some people think this phenomena is a good thing and is very Progressive (though some may think Progress to what?)
@NJCoin I don't disagree with anything you said, but what I meant by calling out GACC is they (and maybe IMEX) are the only ones even trying to create a new national show.
You said, "There is nothing for GACC in CA, if CU cannot make a show work there."
I really hope our hosts meant what they said, about pausing to reassess vs. giving up totally. I have left-coast friends who depend on LB as "the big show".
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said: @NJCoin I don't disagree with anything you said, but what I meant by calling out GACC is they (and maybe IMEX) are the only ones even trying to create a new national show.
You said, "There is nothing for GACC in CA, if CU cannot make a show work there."
I really hope our hosts meant what they said, about pausing to reassess vs. giving up totally. I have left-coast friends who depend on LB as "the big show".
Yeah. I really think what our hosts said was nothing more than the polite way of announcing the end of the show. They have had years to assess and reassess.
If they had something to say, they would have said it. And, as anyone in any business knows, there is far less friction in keeping something going than in trying to restart something after it has stopped. Now that there will be no CU CA shows in the near future, people will adjust their expectations and schedules, and move on with their lives. CU is well aware.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed. GACC might be able to to take advantage of the ANA shooting itself in the foot in OKC, and have a successful show this year in Rosemont. But that will be a one and done, since the ANA will be back in Pittsburgh, and then Rosemont in the next few years, leaving GACC no space to replicate any success they might have this year in Rosemont. There is no reason to think IMEX 2025 in Nashville will be any better than IMEX 2023 was. But we'll see.
Either way, neither IMEX nor GACC have an ancillary business that is supported by a show, as CU has with grading. Very likely, CU ran the show at a loss, for years, to support the grading business. And now the new private equity guys are more focused strictly on the bottom line, so don't see the need for a money losing show to support a robust and profitable grading business.
As a result, if CU cannot make CA or the West Coast work, as I said, there is nothing there for the other guys, since they have nothing to look at other than the profitability of the show itself. GACC and IMEX failed to set the world on fire in either FL or TN. No way they are going to crack CA. Or even want to try.
Let's see if either of them chime in here. I would love to be wrong about it.
Setting up there (Long Beach) coupled with travel cost is very expensive. However with the rich collectors in that area there is ample opportunity for good retail but the competition can be brutal. Sharing a table with a friend one can put a dent in expenses.
Any show promoter is going have to feel opportunity for positive return on expense of running the show even a doable deal.
This is a uniquely American story. Berlin (World Money Fair) costs way under half (hotel plus transportation) than Long Beach, Rosemont, Orlando, Oklahoma City, or Pittsburgh. The breakfast in Berlin is far better than a hotel in Cobb County.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed.
Is the 2025 Nashville coin show cancelled?
No. After the 2023 show, not before, they announced that it was a bi-annual show and that there would be no show in 2024.
I'm pretty sure there would have been a show in 2024 if 2023 wasn't a disappointment. After all, who plans bi-annual coin shows? As if there is robust demand, but once a year is just too much for the market to hande. They are not Congressional elections.
So, as I suggested, they either canceled, postponed, or just never staged 2024 while they reassessed and regrouped after 2023. Let's hope they were able to identify what was broken and were able to fix it, and that the problem was not just insufficient demand for a show in Nashville.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed.
Is the 2025 Nashville coin show cancelled?
No. After the 2023 show, not before, they announced that it was a bi-annual show and that there would be no show in 2024.
I'm pretty sure there would have been a show in 2024 if 2023 wasn't a disappointment. After all, who plans bi-annual coin shows? As if there is robust demand, but once a year is just too much for the market to hande. They are not Congressional elections.
So, as I suggested, they either canceled, postponed, or just never staged 2024 while they reassessed and regrouped after 2023. Let's hope they were able to identify what was broken and were able to fix it, and that the problem was not just insufficient demand for a show in Nashville.
Going directly up against the South Carolina State association show, both in the southeast, was a problem for IMEX to begin with. This coming weekend with Winter ANA and Chattanooga coinciding will present a similar problem.
It was a little strange walking the show this time, seeing people I’ve seen at 100+ previous LB shows but never anywhere else, and knowing I’d probably never see them again. I don’t know that any goodbyes were actually said, but a lot of people must have felt the same way.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed.
Is the 2025 Nashville coin show cancelled?
No. After the 2023 show, not before, they announced that it was a bi-annual show and that there would be no show in 2024.
I'm pretty sure there would have been a show in 2024 if 2023 wasn't a disappointment. After all, who plans bi-annual coin shows? As if there is robust demand, but once a year is just too much for the market to hande. They are not Congressional elections.
So, as I suggested, they either canceled, postponed, or just never staged 2024 while they reassessed and regrouped after 2023. Let's hope they were able to identify what was broken and were able to fix it, and that the problem was not just insufficient demand for a show in Nashville.
If a Nashville show CAN BE DONE, I submit that Col. Ellsworth and Mr. Adkins are the ones with the “chops” to get it done. It WILL require a rethink of what is critically important to a coin show. It MAY NOT BE having Steve Forbes on hand to parrot the promoters’ political/economic beliefs. It MAY NOT BE having ridiculous prizes for raffle tickets. It MAY NOT BE letting the venue jerk you around regarding prepping the bourse floor. It MAY BE having more speakers. Probably not, but it MAY BE bringing in ANA-style Exhibits as an adjunct to the show. It MAY BE moving the show out of downtown toward the suburbs on the northeast side of town, near where the “new Opry” is, and the airport too. Downtown Nashville has THE HIGHEST PARKING PRICES of anywhere I have ever been, and that includes midtown Manhattan. A Predators hockey game or a marathon foot race is not enough of a draw to make $90 a day to park reasonable.
Anybody want a 1st Annual IMEX coffee mug? It’s a rare collector’s piece.
One thing I have learned in many years of helping with show management - you can’t please everyone. What some stakeholders have to have will “urine” off other stakeholders. Who are you trying to please? Dealers or collectors? Want proof? Consider the ANA WFoM in Okie City. Dealers seem to hate it, without proven reason. Centrally located collectors are going to love it. ANA is NOT a coin dealers’ trade association. It’s an educational organization.
I’m ENTIRELY okay with the 2025 WFoM being in Oklahoma City. Where I live, ALL of these venues are between 700 and 725 miles away by car (SUV really): Orlando, Rosemont, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma City, Baltimore (actually 685 miles). I drive to them all. The only flying I’ve done in recent years is to Colorado Springs twice, and Berlin (World Money Fair) twice, and London once.
Only Cobb County, Nashville, and Greenville SC are more sane drives.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed.
Is the 2025 Nashville coin show cancelled?
No. After the 2023 show, not before, they announced that it was a bi-annual show and that there would be no show in 2024.
I'm pretty sure there would have been a show in 2024 if 2023 wasn't a disappointment. After all, who plans bi-annual coin shows? As if there is robust demand, but once a year is just too much for the market to hande. They are not Congressional elections.
So, as I suggested, they either canceled, postponed, or just never staged 2024 while they reassessed and regrouped after 2023. Let's hope they were able to identify what was broken and were able to fix it, and that the problem was not just insufficient demand for a show in Nashville.
If a Nashville show CAN BE DONE, I submit that Col. Ellsworth and Mr. Adkins are the ones with the “chops” to get it done. It WILL require a rethink of what is critically important to a coin show. It MAY NOT BE having Steve Forbes on hand to parrot the promoters’ political/economic beliefs. It MAY NOT BE having ridiculous prizes for raffle tickets. It MAY NOT BE letting the venue jerk you around regarding prepping the bourse floor. It MAY BE having more speakers. Probably not, but it MAY BE bringing in ANA-style Exhibits as an adjunct to the show. It MAY BE moving the show out of downtown toward the suburbs on the northeast side of town, near where the “new Opry” is, and the airport too. Downtown Nashville has THE HIGHEST PARKING PRICES of anywhere I have ever been, and that includes midtown Manhattan. A Predators hockey game or a marathon foot race is not enough of a draw to make $90 a day to park reasonable.
Anybody want a 1st Annual IMEX coffee mug? It’s a rare collector’s piece.
One thing I have learned in many years of helping with show management - you can’t please everyone. What some stakeholders have to have will “urine” off other stakeholders. Who are you trying to please? Dealers or collectors? Want proof? Consider the ANA WFoM in Okie City. Dealers seem to hate it, without proven reason. Centrally located collectors are going to love it. ANA is NOT a coin dealers’ trade association. It’s an educational organization.
There are legitimate reasons to not want the show in Oklahoma City. Most importantly, travel difficulties. For example, these are my only 3 non-stop options from any of the NYC airports. (O’Hare would be at least 50 options.) For most international visitors, non-stop flights will be impossible. A connection in NYC would also be impossible, because LGA doesn’t handle international flights, so 3 leg journeys will be typical.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed.
Is the 2025 Nashville coin show cancelled?
No. After the 2023 show, not before, they announced that it was a bi-annual show and that there would be no show in 2024.
I'm pretty sure there would have been a show in 2024 if 2023 wasn't a disappointment. After all, who plans bi-annual coin shows? As if there is robust demand, but once a year is just too much for the market to hande. They are not Congressional elections.
So, as I suggested, they either canceled, postponed, or just never staged 2024 while they reassessed and regrouped after 2023. Let's hope they were able to identify what was broken and were able to fix it, and that the problem was not just insufficient demand for a show in Nashville.
If a Nashville show CAN BE DONE, I submit that Col. Ellsworth and Mr. Adkins are the ones with the “chops” to get it done. It WILL require a rethink of what is critically important to a coin show. It MAY NOT BE having Steve Forbes on hand to parrot the promoters’ political/economic beliefs. It MAY NOT BE having ridiculous prizes for raffle tickets. It MAY NOT BE letting the venue jerk you around regarding prepping the bourse floor. It MAY BE having more speakers. Probably not, but it MAY BE bringing in ANA-style Exhibits as an adjunct to the show. It MAY BE moving the show out of downtown toward the suburbs on the northeast side of town, near where the “new Opry” is, and the airport too. Downtown Nashville has THE HIGHEST PARKING PRICES of anywhere I have ever been, and that includes midtown Manhattan. A Predators hockey game or a marathon foot race is not enough of a draw to make $90 a day to park reasonable.
Anybody want a 1st Annual IMEX coffee mug? It’s a rare collector’s piece.
One thing I have learned in many years of helping with show management - you can’t please everyone. What some stakeholders have to have will “urine” off other stakeholders. Who are you trying to please? Dealers or collectors? Want proof? Consider the ANA WFoM in Okie City. Dealers seem to hate it, without proven reason. Centrally located collectors are going to love it. ANA is NOT a coin dealers’ trade association. It’s an educational organization.
There are legitimate reasons to not want the show in Oklahoma City. Most importantly, travel difficulties. For example, these are my only 3 non-stop options from any of the NYC airports. (O’Hare would be at least 50 options.) For most international visitors, non-stop flights will be impossible. A connection in NYC would also be impossible, because LGA doesn’t handle international flights, so 3 leg journeys will be typical.
Here is my list of non-stop flights from Sacramento...
Whoops, I meant here is my list of non-stop flights from San Francisco...
Whoops, I meant here is my list of non-stop flights from Oakland...
Whoops, I meant here is my list of non-stop flights from San Jose...
Those are the closest airports for roughly 15 million people living in Northern California.
And yet, @lermish all 15 million of y'all can't keep the Long Beach show going.
As for flight options, how do you feel about renting a car? OKC is an easy 3-hour drive from the DFW rental car counter. Given we routinely have Houston area dealers at the North Texas shows (4-hour drives), it's not outlandish.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
@BStrauss3 said:
And yet, @lermish all 15 million of y'all can't keep the Long Beach show going.
As for flight options, how do you feel about renting a car? OKC is an easy 3-hour drive from the DFW rental car counter. Given we routinely have Houston area dealers at the North Texas shows (4-hour drives), it's not outlandish.
I know, I feel bad about it. I'm part of the LB show problem. But it was just not worth going anymore. It's sad.
I don't mind a 4 hour drive. I do mind leaving 30 minutes to the airport, an hour of waiting around, a 4 hour flight, 30 minutes to get off the flight and get a rental, then a 3 hour drive. That's 9 hours of travel time each direction plus the extra expense of a rental car and (potentially) parking.
That (in my opinion, for a coin show, as a collector) is outlandish. It's the same reason why I don't go to FUN often and won't go to the Pittsburgh ANA again also.
I drive 700 miles ROUTINELY (each way) to get to ALL ANA summer show sites. I hope you’ll excuse my lack of empathy for your travel problem. It’s 11 and a half to 12 hours each way.
If not having non-stop flights available is enough reason to beg off, why in the heck is ANA HQ in a transportation desert like Colorado Springs? I can fly to Berlin CHEAPER than I can to COS.
@VKurtB said:
I drive 700 miles ROUTINELY (each way) to get to ALL ANA summer show sites. I hope you’ll excuse my lack of empathy for your travel problem. It’s 11 and a half to 12 hours each way.
I'm not seeking empathy, just trying to explain why many, including myself, won't be attending the show.
I don't know anything about you but I have a lot of responsibility in my job, a wife and kids, and trips I like to take in addition to coin shows. I'm sure it's different for a retiree or a coin dealer.
My time is valuable. Spending a full day (roundtrip) to spend another 2-3 days at a coin show is not worth it for me.
Retiree? Yup. Dealer? NEVER! Former Pennsylvania State Legislative staffer. Now in Alabama. The summer ANA show WAS my annual vacation when I worked for the General Assembly. I spent it working FOR the ANA, full time that week.
Comments
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regional airports have smaller planes and smaller overhead bins
large? did they rebuild ontario? i went through there 20 years ago and they had 2 escalators up to the gates and 2 metal detectors (one of which did not detect my half pound of change in my pocket)
For Winter FUN that just passed, I stayed at the Orlando Hilton (one of the two hotels closest to the Convention Center). I believe the rate arranged through FUN was only around $215 or so. But then there’s taxes added on.
Steve
My collecting “Pride & Joy” is my PCGS Registry Dansco 7070 Set:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/type-sets/design-type-sets/complete-dansco-7070-modified-type-set-1796-date/publishedset/213996
I should probably keep my mouth shut. I have never been to a coin show and I am not that smart, but every time I see one of these convention posts I think of my friend Dwayne. He owns a Livestock Auction Barn. A couple times a year they have what is called a producers show. At a producer show they require every producer to do the following. They have to bring a few of their best stock (cattle, horses, pigs , lambs etc.) to the show. They have the animals on exhibit at the barn but the animals are also part of a live internet auction that identifies each producer and where his exhibit is.
This approach means individual producers are identified in the live internet but you also have the opportunity of attending and walking the barn or ;being able to participate online. I think it is a great marriage of the internet to the self promoting aspects of the actual show. James
For Winter FUN that just passed, I stayed at the Orlando Hilton (one of the two hotels closest to the Convention Center). I believe the rate arranged through FUN was only around $215 or so.
I always stay at the Rosen Centre - the basic rate for the FUN show is $198 (plus the addons). It's convenient to the Convention Center plus it has a Walgreens Pharmacy right across the street along with several restaurants.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
I went to my first Long Beach in June1980.
Didn't go for a few years then regularly beginning February 1985 until the Covid close down. Last time I attended was October 2021.
Too bad things have evolved to where they are now. Some of my best memories are from the Long Beach shows over the years. ( A side note: The Santa Clara shows were really enjoyable as the buying could be very good.)
I wasn't planning on going in February but I will likely make the trip...20 years from now we will be looking back on the memories.
The showrunners should consider moving it to Phoenix around spring training. It's roughly 5 1/2 hours distance from Long Beach and Las Vegas, will be more affordable and the weather will be fantastic in February/ March.
I only remember three shows a year (back to the 80’s?) in February, June and September. How long ago were there four?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He may be thinking of the fairly large foreign/world show that was held at the Beach in December(?) back in the day.
I calculated that I have spent well over a year of my life in Long Beach hotels -- others have easily exceeded that milestone.
So many memories. The June 2005 Long Beach Expo was my first coin show. I worked there for many, many years, and have lots of good memories schmoozing with dealers and my colleagues on the show floor. Here's my goofy exhibitor badge.
Phil Arnold
Director of Photography, GreatCollections
greatcollections.com
Been to a Central States show, a couple of FUN shows, a few PAN shows, going to ANA Atlanta this year. Planned on attending Long Beach in June, darn.
I think the obvious solution to things is to have multiple shows in more of the most expensive venues in some of the most expensive cities, that way all the dealers and "clients" can feel good about themselves and celebrate their wealth. It's absolutely ridiculous anymore and why I gave up on attending major regional/national shows almost 20 years ago. As a collector of modest means I simply could not justify spending $1,500-$2,000 to possibly be able to purchase something. Things have just gotten too cost prohibitive.
Reading many of the replies describes a beast which has decided to cannibalize itself for the good of nobody.
They had a show there 10-12 years ago and thought it was a dud from what I remember.
Although, things could change without LB.
EAC 6024
I'll miss the show. Just had my routine down:
Early Thursday flight from OAK to LGB
Uber to the Convention to be there for the 10 AM opening
Peruse the show for approximately two - three hours (pick-ups, drop-offs, purchases, etc)
Grab some lunch at Naree Thai on Ocean Blvd
Back to the show for a couple hours
Uber back to LGB
Late afternoon flight from LGB to OAK
Home in time for dinner
Tim
I've been attending Long Beach for many years. Met JOM (and others) there a number of times. Met Walter Breen and bought his Coin Encyclopedia there as well as Bill Noyes and bought one of his books on Large Cents. The energy level is definitely not what it was in the 1990s.
That said, it's a 1/2 hour drive, and the only larger show around here. I stopped attending local shows because they just didn't have enough material that interested me. I get so see some of my favorite people in the hobby at Long Beach, and unless I got on a plane and traveled to another location to attend a show, I'd never see them.
I don't buy / sell enough to get on a plane, take a number of days out my my schedule, and travel to a show. If Long Beach goes adios, someone who offers me a coin will have to send it to someone I trust, or see them at a show for them to inspect the coin and get back to me. Don't like buying with a return privilege, and will never buy a coin sight unseen.
Also, if you're looking at what for you is an expensive coin, you really need to see it in hand, or have someone you trust see it for you. Images don't tell the whole story. Don't get me started on that.
Some people are buying pretty and expensive coins that are not original. I don't want these coins. You need to see many coins to develop this knowledge and be able to make this determination. At a largish show, if you know people, someone you trust can give you a second opinion by looking at said coin.
Just a thought: I work and live near LAX. There are a huge slew of Airport Hotels on Century Boulevard and nearby. I don't know what are their seasonal occupancy rates and pricing. But surely most could accommodate a coin show the size of Long Beach. And I imagine they could offer reasonable rates outside of the tourist season. You can catch a shuttle directly to pretty much any / all of these hotels from the arrival terminal at LAX.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It's a shame you made such a terrible mistake for many years as the clear winner for lunch is Sura Korean BBQ on Atlantic.
@Elcontador I like your idea in theory but ugh LAX....just miserable. LGB is such a nice change of pace from a big airport. I prefer the Ontario option mentioned earlier.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Then what did you look like after you got the GC job?
And no sales tax on coins. I was looking into a group to create an annual or semiannual (Spring/Fall) show there, but I probably am going to disengage for a while soon enough. Still a possibility.
Bummer. I’ve been to many shows, but probably over half that I’ve attended were at Long Beach. The old auctions were great. Like others have said, it was an easy day or two-day trip for me to the LGB airport. Many good memories.
You're correct, iy was 3 shows a year
Mike
My Indians
Danco Set
Yeah, this is a real bummer but I do understand the issues. I really do miss the "good ol' days". Seeing you, Margulis, Braddick and all the rest. This is such a shame but the slow fall off before COVID and the rapid fall off since made this inevitable.
jom
PCGS --- Dont forget the Anahiem convention center and associated tons of hotels eateries
Angel stadium extremely close as is Disneyland. Safe area!
Confluenses of freeway access.
Finding another location cheaper in the area should be no problem.
When I thought about this 'pause' to the Long Beach (LB) show it reminded me of weight savings tasks on some projects. Where many ideas are open for consideration but to implement the idea it has to pass program criteria for perhaps money spent upfront to savings downstream (one of many potential criteria).
With the LB show it appears someone near the top said shut it down (or 'pause') and possibly demonstrate the alternatives. To be clear I know neither of those to have happened but using for example here. The 'weight savings' or ideas could be from doing a new LB at a different less expensive venue (hotel convention center...) to a new LB and partnering with someone to do the running and execution of the new LB show.
However, taking from last year where it appeared PCGS upped the focus on 'submission only' shows and kept the members only shows going (link below for last year), then might consider taking table(s) at a larger local show or two and doing submissions only. In the past PCGS did some local submission Friday (I think it was Friday) at a hotel where only PCGS was there to take submissions. Currently for 2025 PCGS has one for PAN and TNA on the schedule for late May. And then of course perhaps a member only show locally.
https://www.pcgs.com/shows
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1096326/for-those-on-the-east-side-pcgs-shows-coming-update-now-one-in-the-middle
Could be interesting to see what comes about in 2025 and 2026 with respect to what is next after the LB 'pause'. But I am currently thinking like a 'weight savings' task - demonstrate what should work. PCGS should have good numbers on these offsite submission only shows and the degree to which they could work. The new LB might be more of a risk. But again I have no knowledge either way.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Personally, the issue I have with the above is that I go to shows to look at coins sight seen. I don't buy or sell much, will not make a purchase sight unseen from someone I known know very well, and personally don't submit much, either. I submit through Heritage, as I am a legacy client. If I wanted to submit a coin, it's far closer for me to drop it off at their office in Beverly Hills and trek to Orange County.
If you're looking at members only submission shows, people like me won't be going to them. I don't know how many people like me are in the hobby.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Not sure I follow the issue with the above thing. First I am not looking for anything but was simply thinking in terms of a
'weight savings' type event. There will be many people and probably most people who go to shows to look at coins and not submit (this would be me most of the time). This would be part of the 'weight savings' review. That is as noted 'demonstrate the alternatives'. From a new LB to 'submission only' at an existing local show to a submission Friday. Or perhaps you were indicating that I missed one and PCGS decides the area is just not worth the effort (not going to get the participation that they appear to get in other locations). But as noted will be interesting to see what comes.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wwmUMvhy-lY - Pink Me And Bobby McGee
.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=D0FPxuQv2ns - Ruby Starr (from 'Go Jim Dandy') Maybe I'm Amazed
RLJ 1958 - 2023
Ontario Airport is an international airport only other airport near LAX that can land and take off wide bodies it's no small airport.! Fly in and out of there any place you want《
We stayed at the Rosen Centre for $198 a night (plus tax). Loved that hotel and the pool/hot tubs!
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
<<regional airports have smaller planes and smaller overhead bins
large? did they rebuild ontario? i went through there 20 years ago and they had 2 escalators up to the gates and 2 metal detectors (one of which did not detect my half pound of change in my pocket) >>
Yes Ontario Airport rebuilt greatly and expanded years ago. quite new terminals
Only other Airport in LA area that can take widebody aircraft, very long runways.
foggy at LAX all flights diverted to Ontario! People bussed in from there.
IN 2024. , 5.8 million passengers and growing 10 to 11% every year. .
Large Ontario convention center
Right Next to large international ontario airport
Lots of hotels and eateries
Everything much cheaper!!!!
35 miles from downtown LA.
Why they have not gone there yet is amazing. Everything In their back yard.
Beach areas getting way to expensiive.
Inland empire is growing like the san fernado valley!!
Look into it PCGS——
This was sad:
I hope what was broken can be fixed, and new blood can bring Long Beach back to prominence.
I attended the show and was glad I did. The LB show was always a fave of mine, so there was a bit of a feeling of nostalgia this time.
Personally, I had a good show - a few nice acquisitions + some fairly large consignments placed with a few dealers. All the dealers I talked to seemed to be having a good show. The number of “YN” dealers I noted seemed to be enjoying the show & their good results. A couple noted it was their first setup.
There were a scattering of empty tables throughout the bourse; however, the show was a bit busier than I anticipated. It was easy to get around & get to see everything; that doesn’t always happen @ the ‘biggies”, like FUN & ANA.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
Don't give up hope. There is a need for a national show on the left coast, and while I loved the PNNA show when I worked out there, it really was a super-regional not a national show.
I've seen it before: The HOPE (Hackers On Planet Earth) conference, https://www.hope.net/about.html, had a play on "the last hope", because the hotel was going to be torn down and they didn't have a venue. Then the hotel WASN'T torn down, so they had "the next hope". The hotel survived another 8 years. Then COVID, and 2022 became "A new hope".
Given all the problems the GACCS people are having, maybe they could step in?
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Step in how? Do you think Collectors Universe is resource contrained, or lacks the interest to run a successful show on their home turf?
The issue is that California is a difficult, expensive place to operate. The demand from our hobby is simply insufficient to justify the cost. As evidenced by the fact that CU is shutting it down. Even though they make a ton of money from submissions at the show.
Given that, how on earth is GACC supposed to make it work in CA? They had a hard enough time in Tampa, and then had to cancel Ft. Lauderdale. They can't even get a print magazine out the door.
They're looking for opportunities like Rosemont, to fill a void while the ANA is doing whatever it is that they will be doing in OKC. There is nothing for GACC in CA, if CU cannot make a show work there.
There might be a "need for a national show on the left coast." The problem is, given the cost and the size of the market, it is simply not economically viable for anyone to fill that need.
Dealers aren't going to pay 2x, 3x, etc. of whatever they have been paying for tables to allow promoters to make money, and collectors wouldn't pay sky high admission fees in sufficient numbers to make it work either. As a result, as with so many other things, CA might be a great place to live, but it has apparently priced itself out of the national coin show market.
As implied by the word "national," you need people from all over the country to make it work. And people in most of the rest of the country are simply not going to put up with the cost and inconvenience of going to CA when they have better, less expensive, more convenient alternatives. And then you are left with the west coast regional audience. Which is apparently insufficient to make it work for the promoters.
The big Santa Clara coin show shut down years ago. Nothing similar stepped up to take its place. That show was a day trip for 10-15 million people living in the SF Bay Area and Central Valley towns from Merced/Fresno north to Marysville//Yuba City.
I do not know if things will be different in So. Cal. In the coming years. Doing business in Cal. Is very expensive and as a result many longstanding events put on for decades have chosen to no longer put on those events in the Golden State.
Some people think this phenomena is a good thing and is very Progressive (though some may think Progress to what?)
@NJCoin I don't disagree with anything you said, but what I meant by calling out GACC is they (and maybe IMEX) are the only ones even trying to create a new national show.
You said, "There is nothing for GACC in CA, if CU cannot make a show work there."
I really hope our hosts meant what they said, about pausing to reassess vs. giving up totally. I have left-coast friends who depend on LB as "the big show".
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Yeah. I really think what our hosts said was nothing more than the polite way of announcing the end of the show. They have had years to assess and reassess.
If they had something to say, they would have said it. And, as anyone in any business knows, there is far less friction in keeping something going than in trying to restart something after it has stopped. Now that there will be no CU CA shows in the near future, people will adjust their expectations and schedules, and move on with their lives. CU is well aware.
With respect to GACC and IMEX, you are correct that they think there is space for a new national for-profit show. TBD on whether or not they are correct. All we know so far is that there was no huge pent up demand for new shows in the late Summer / early Fall in Tampa or Nashville.
Which immediately caused both of them to cancel their next planned shows while they also reassessed. GACC might be able to to take advantage of the ANA shooting itself in the foot in OKC, and have a successful show this year in Rosemont. But that will be a one and done, since the ANA will be back in Pittsburgh, and then Rosemont in the next few years, leaving GACC no space to replicate any success they might have this year in Rosemont. There is no reason to think IMEX 2025 in Nashville will be any better than IMEX 2023 was. But we'll see.
Either way, neither IMEX nor GACC have an ancillary business that is supported by a show, as CU has with grading. Very likely, CU ran the show at a loss, for years, to support the grading business. And now the new private equity guys are more focused strictly on the bottom line, so don't see the need for a money losing show to support a robust and profitable grading business.
As a result, if CU cannot make CA or the West Coast work, as I said, there is nothing there for the other guys, since they have nothing to look at other than the profitability of the show itself. GACC and IMEX failed to set the world on fire in either FL or TN. No way they are going to crack CA. Or even want to try.
Let's see if either of them chime in here. I would love to be wrong about it.
Setting up there (Long Beach) coupled with travel cost is very expensive. However with the rich collectors in that area there is ample opportunity for good retail but the competition can be brutal. Sharing a table with a friend one can put a dent in expenses.
Any show promoter is going have to feel opportunity for positive return on expense of running the show even a doable deal.
This is a uniquely American story. Berlin (World Money Fair) costs way under half (hotel plus transportation) than Long Beach, Rosemont, Orlando, Oklahoma City, or Pittsburgh. The breakfast in Berlin is far better than a hotel in Cobb County.
Is the 2025 Nashville coin show cancelled?
No. After the 2023 show, not before, they announced that it was a bi-annual show and that there would be no show in 2024.
I'm pretty sure there would have been a show in 2024 if 2023 wasn't a disappointment. After all, who plans bi-annual coin shows? As if there is robust demand, but once a year is just too much for the market to hande. They are not Congressional elections.
So, as I suggested, they either canceled, postponed, or just never staged 2024 while they reassessed and regrouped after 2023. Let's hope they were able to identify what was broken and were able to fix it, and that the problem was not just insufficient demand for a show in Nashville.
Going directly up against the South Carolina State association show, both in the southeast, was a problem for IMEX to begin with. This coming weekend with Winter ANA and Chattanooga coinciding will present a similar problem.
It was a little strange walking the show this time, seeing people I’ve seen at 100+ previous LB shows but never anywhere else, and knowing I’d probably never see them again. I don’t know that any goodbyes were actually said, but a lot of people must have felt the same way.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
If a Nashville show CAN BE DONE, I submit that Col. Ellsworth and Mr. Adkins are the ones with the “chops” to get it done. It WILL require a rethink of what is critically important to a coin show. It MAY NOT BE having Steve Forbes on hand to parrot the promoters’ political/economic beliefs. It MAY NOT BE having ridiculous prizes for raffle tickets. It MAY NOT BE letting the venue jerk you around regarding prepping the bourse floor. It MAY BE having more speakers. Probably not, but it MAY BE bringing in ANA-style Exhibits as an adjunct to the show. It MAY BE moving the show out of downtown toward the suburbs on the northeast side of town, near where the “new Opry” is, and the airport too. Downtown Nashville has THE HIGHEST PARKING PRICES of anywhere I have ever been, and that includes midtown Manhattan. A Predators hockey game or a marathon foot race is not enough of a draw to make $90 a day to park reasonable.
Anybody want a 1st Annual IMEX coffee mug? It’s a rare collector’s piece.
One thing I have learned in many years of helping with show management - you can’t please everyone. What some stakeholders have to have will “urine” off other stakeholders. Who are you trying to please? Dealers or collectors? Want proof? Consider the ANA WFoM in Okie City. Dealers seem to hate it, without proven reason. Centrally located collectors are going to love it. ANA is NOT a coin dealers’ trade association. It’s an educational organization.
I’m ENTIRELY okay with the 2025 WFoM being in Oklahoma City. Where I live, ALL of these venues are between 700 and 725 miles away by car (SUV really): Orlando, Rosemont, Pittsburgh, Oklahoma City, Baltimore (actually 685 miles). I drive to them all. The only flying I’ve done in recent years is to Colorado Springs twice, and Berlin (World Money Fair) twice, and London once.
Only Cobb County, Nashville, and Greenville SC are more sane drives.
There are legitimate reasons to not want the show in Oklahoma City. Most importantly, travel difficulties. For example, these are my only 3 non-stop options from any of the NYC airports. (O’Hare would be at least 50 options.) For most international visitors, non-stop flights will be impossible. A connection in NYC would also be impossible, because LGA doesn’t handle international flights, so 3 leg journeys will be typical.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Here is my list of non-stop flights from Sacramento...
Whoops, I meant here is my list of non-stop flights from San Francisco...
Whoops, I meant here is my list of non-stop flights from Oakland...
Whoops, I meant here is my list of non-stop flights from San Jose...
Those are the closest airports for roughly 15 million people living in Northern California.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
And yet, @lermish all 15 million of y'all can't keep the Long Beach show going.
As for flight options, how do you feel about renting a car? OKC is an easy 3-hour drive from the DFW rental car counter. Given we routinely have Houston area dealers at the North Texas shows (4-hour drives), it's not outlandish.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
I know, I feel bad about it. I'm part of the LB show problem. But it was just not worth going anymore. It's sad.
I don't mind a 4 hour drive. I do mind leaving 30 minutes to the airport, an hour of waiting around, a 4 hour flight, 30 minutes to get off the flight and get a rental, then a 3 hour drive. That's 9 hours of travel time each direction plus the extra expense of a rental car and (potentially) parking.
That (in my opinion, for a coin show, as a collector) is outlandish. It's the same reason why I don't go to FUN often and won't go to the Pittsburgh ANA again also.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
I drive 700 miles ROUTINELY (each way) to get to ALL ANA summer show sites. I hope you’ll excuse my lack of empathy for your travel problem. It’s 11 and a half to 12 hours each way.
If not having non-stop flights available is enough reason to beg off, why in the heck is ANA HQ in a transportation desert like Colorado Springs? I can fly to Berlin CHEAPER than I can to COS.
I'm not seeking empathy, just trying to explain why many, including myself, won't be attending the show.
I don't know anything about you but I have a lot of responsibility in my job, a wife and kids, and trips I like to take in addition to coin shows. I'm sure it's different for a retiree or a coin dealer.
My time is valuable. Spending a full day (roundtrip) to spend another 2-3 days at a coin show is not worth it for me.
chopmarkedtradedollars.com
Retiree? Yup. Dealer? NEVER! Former Pennsylvania State Legislative staffer. Now in Alabama. The summer ANA show WAS my annual vacation when I worked for the General Assembly. I spent it working FOR the ANA, full time that week.