I have been following Walker auctions, as I always do, and the last several days of FUN Show results were not particularly strong but they were steady.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
Economic uncertainty and instability put a damper on numismatics to some extent. "Deals" always draw interest, as well as the popular mainstays in the hobby with low risk.
Gold stickers are guaranteed to cross to CACG at “at least” a point higher, and some may believe the coin is better than a point ahead. Then add in the people that collect gold stickers, toss in an OGH, and you have a lot of competition.
@Walkerfan said:
What is it about a gold sticker??
This is a $200 coin, at best.
Even a 67 isn’t worth more than $500-$600.
This sold for $1850 ($2081.25 w/bp)!!!
Gold CAC stickered coins represent a tiny portion of the "market". Why choose that from among the other many thousands of more representative examples to support the notion that the market isn't soft?
Someone could just as easily use an example of a dark, ugly over-graded coin to show that the market's weak.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Walkerfan said:
What is it about a gold sticker??
This is a $200 coin, at best.
Even a 67 isn’t worth more than $500-$600.
This sold for $1850 ($2081.25 w/bp)!!!
Gold CAC stickered coins represent a tiny portion of the "market". Why choose that from among the other many thousands of more representative examples to support the notion that the market isn't soft?
Someone could just as easily use an example of a dark, ugly over-graded coin to show that the market's weak.
I didn’t choose it to prove the market isn’t soft. I chose it to ask why CAC gold stickers sell for astronomical amounts…even multiples of the next grade up.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Walkerfan said:
What is it about a gold sticker??
This is a $200 coin, at best.
Even a 67 isn’t worth more than $500-$600.
This sold for $1850 ($2081.25 w/bp)!!!
Gold CAC stickered coins represent a tiny portion of the "market". Why choose that from among the other many thousands of more representative examples to support the notion that the market isn't soft?
Someone could just as easily use an example of a dark, ugly over-graded coin to show that the market's weak.
I didn’t choose it to prove the market isn’t soft. I chose it to ask why CAC gold stickers sell for astronomical amounts…even multiples of the next grade up.
In that case, you chose the wrong thread in which to ask. This ones about whether the "market" is soft.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Cougar1978 said:
The gold sticker hobby is a sub hobby of coin collecting. Certainly not a market parameter.
True. But your post about rattlers, green stickers and the crazy Washington quarter result got me thinking. So, that’s the reason why I went in that gold sticker direction.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@Walkerfan said:
I have been following Walker auctions, as I always do, and the last several days of FUN Show results were not particularly strong but they were steady.
Can you comment on the different categories of MS and PF Walkers? The pre 1934s vs the later dates. Also CACs (CACGs) vs. the non sticker coins?
Some areas are definitely still going up. I've been working on completing a Washington quarter set for 5 years now and many of the more common MS 66 dates are selling for way more than I paid for them in the past.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
@Walkerfan said:
I have been following Walker auctions, as I always do, and the last several days of FUN Show results were not particularly strong but they were steady.
Can you comment on the different categories of MS and PF Walkers? The pre 1934s vs the later dates. Also CACs (CACGs) vs. the non sticker coins?
I usually only follow the pre-1940 MS coins.
I don't follow later dates or Proofs, too much.
1916-P/D/S in 62, 63, 64 & 65 did very well and have been on an upward trend for the last decade.
The 1917-S rev. and obverse both in 63 were soft. The 65 S obv did well. the 64 S rev. with the CAC sticker did well and I didn't even particularly like the coin. The 64+ CAC was of better quality and sold for just a little more. The d Obverse in 64 held steady. The D reverse in 63 was soft.
The 1918 P 64 did well and has also been on an upward trend. The 1918-S in 64 did poorly, imho, and I don't know why. The toned 18-D in 65 did MUCH better than it's white counterpart, which i felt was a soft price.
The 1919-P/D/S coins in 63 and 64 were surprisingly weak price-wise but they were unspectacular examples, imho.
The 1920-Ds in 65 and 66 did OK but sold for WAY below retail (I didn't like the 66, at all, even though it had a CAC sticker). The 65 without the CAC actually did much better than it's 65 CAC counterpart. That's a super rare issue that barely comes up and has gone up quite a bit over the years. The 1920 P and S held steady.
The 1921 Ps in 62 and 65 were steady and sold for what I expected. The 1921-D in 65 held steady to a little above and it was a substandard coin, imho. A better example would have sold for more. The 1921-S in 65 and 66 sold for less than I have seen, in years past, but still obviously an extremely pricey coin(s).
The 1923-S in 65 OGH was a bargain imho @ $12600. The other 65 sold for even LESS. Definitely a buyer's market there.
The 1927-S in 64 held steady but the 66 sold at a lower price than I had predicted (I didn't care for it).
The 1928-S coins in 65 were fair to middling.
The 1929-D/S were average and held steady. They have neither lost nor gained value over the last several years.
the 1933-S held steady, too.
What really surprises me is the 1934-S. This coin is a rare issue and has really come down in value, over the last few years. I see some potential there, as I feel that it may recover in the coming years.
Those are my thoughts, FWIW.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
@oreville said:
The 1955 DDO cent in PCGS/CAC MS-65 just sold at Heritage for $90,000 including the buyer fee vs a retail PCGS >price guide of $60,000.
Good catch.....do you have a recent sales price for that coin when it sold most recently a few years ago ? That way we can compare apples-to-apples.
This coin is also one of the most famous that many people have heard of. It's a very famous penny...the DDO strike...lot of people interested in it who might not care about other coins of this type (similar to some of the high-priced CC DEs or Saints).
I did see the same currency bills in the FUN Signature Currency Auction going for flat-to-down pricing for many 4- and 5-figure bills.
@Walkerfan said:
I have been following Walker auctions, as I always do, and the last several days of FUN Show results were not particularly strong but they were steady.
Can you comment on the different categories of MS and PF Walkers? The pre 1934s vs the later dates. Also CACs (CACGs) vs. the non sticker coins?
I usually only follow the pre-1940 MS coins.
I don't follow later dates or Proofs, too much.
1916-P/D/S in 62, 63, 64 & 65 did very well and have been on an upward trend for the last decade.
The 1917-S rev. and obverse both in 63 were soft. The 65 S obv did well. the 64 S rev. with the CAC sticker did well and I didn't even particularly like the coin. The 64+ CAC was of better quality and sold for just a little more. The d Obverse in 64 held steady. The D reverse in 63 was soft....
I only include the following reference to sports cards in this topic as both are collectible markets. To make a comparison.
Been going on for decades. We get high end sales while the lower material flounders. One month with the latest releases the product is "flying off the shelves", "drying up", "can't find it anywhere". Few months later it is seen in the rest view mirror. Next release, rinse and repeat. You get your Mantles,Jordans reaping the big headlines with hundreds of thousands or millions in sales. But by and large the average collector is in the lower end market. If those aren't selling it's a soft market, while high end is moving,hit market.
Can't paint either market with a broad brush. Hot and cold markets are always there regardless of price level of collectibles.
You're move.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
Intended for those of you out there interested in perhaps better understanding the silver Washington quarter series (as well as M. Feld since I will be discussing Heritage here). Anyone who doesn’t care, please just skip my posts here.
Lots of talk here about silver Washington Quarters and just how wonderful many of them are performing. Well, as some of you may know, I was the first PCGS HALL OF FAME Registry winner for this particular coin series (and it appears the only one ever to receive that honor from PCGS from what I see). I want to share a story with you about a very scarce coin: the 1961-P Washington Quarter in the top grade of PCGS-MS67 (even to this day just 25 coins in that grade without a single coin graded higher). But, before I share my story, take a look at the last (4) PCGS-MS67 “pop top” coins of this date auctioned / to be auctioned at Heritage since the Summer of 2022. In that 2 1/2+ year time period, there were only (4) auction appearances of this scarce coin (including the one coming up next month). Take a look at these (4) appearances and I will then share my “bedtime story” on this particular silver quarter date in a short while.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Around (25) - (30) years ago, I was very actively trying to build the finest known Mint State Washington Quarter set possible. I devoted countless (hundreds and hundreds of) hours to the task. This included buying myriad fresh sealed bank rolls and trying to grade finest known MS67 coins from these rolls, especially from the mid-1940’s through 1964. Obviously, it was much more difficult to locate nearly any fresh rolls dated prior to 1943, even back searching in the late 1980’s and 1990’s. In my “hunt”, it became obvious even back then that the 1961-P Washington quarter (among a few others) was a scarce “beast” in the true grade of Superb Gem MS67.
If memory serves me right, I got tipped off by a dealer that another dealer had just made (or had access to) the very first PCGS-MS67 ever graded for the 1961-P quarter. I immediately reached out to that dealer and inquired about the coin. The dealer told me he had the coin in his possession, it was for sale, but wasn’t sure of the value of the coin. He asked me what I thought it was worth. I told him I would pay him $5,000 for the coin and that the MS66 coins one grade under were worth just a few hundred dollars. He immediately told me that sounded great and he would sell me the coin at my price and would ship it out to me. When it didn’t show up in the mail, I followed up and he told me that his customer ended up passing on my offer (I wasn’t even aware there was “a customer” at the time we originally spoke and did the deal) and he had planned to tell me the bad news, but was still trying to change his customer’s mind to get me the coin when I called. In the end, I never received the coin from that dealer.
In any event, this 1961-P quarter experience at the time changed everything for me on how I would handle negotiations when dealers lacked the knowledge of the Washington quarter market and its “top pops”, but also, this particular date became “poison” to me; I set my mind to buying this coin in the future for far less than my $5,000 offer. And I would wait however long it took to make sure I paid less than what I offered in good faith to this dealer.
Then, in November, 2003, Heritage offered the world the pop 2/0 coin of this date. I, of course, wondered if the coin Heritage was auctioning was a freshly made example of this date or “my” original pop 1 coin that I never received. Not that it mattered at that point. But, what did matter was that the coin sold for a strong $9,775.00! This quarter date became even stronger poison in my mind from there!
Ten years later, in January, 2013, when our fellow board member David Poole (who I liked and respected very much) sold his lovely Washington quarter set at Heritage, I convinced myself to “move on” and bid $5,002.00 hammer on his 1961-P MS67 quarter. The coin was just pop 3/0 at the time (recall it was pop 2/0 ten years earlier). I did so, and was the immediate UNDERBIDDER on the coin losing it to a bidder who completed the full bid at $5,250.00 hammer to win the coin! David at least thanked me for my strong bids on his auction; I was in the Heritage auction room live as was David Poole at the time.
But, then a strange thing happened. The populations on these silver quarters skyrocketed. The reason for that is for another thread, but it is interesting to note that when PCGS awarded my set the Hall of Fame award, I recall having around two dozen pop 1/0 coins in the collection of 83 coins!! A few years later, I went from having around (24) pop 1’s to ZERO pop 1’s! Now, of course, one day when I resubmit my former (24) pop 1’s, I hope I will regain a few of them as new pop 1’s with some upgrades. But, that is for another day. Back to the story of the 1961-P MS67 quarter…
About a year after David Poole’s pop 3/0 sale, Heritage sold the pop 5/0 coin for $3,819.00. And, three years after that in 2017, Heritage sold the pop 12 coin for $2,233.00. And, two years after that in 2019, the pop 35 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at $1,920.00 (from the Charlie O’s collection). I believe this might have been a typo in the auction description and should have been pop 25 (not 35). And, two years after that, the pop 27 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at the same $1,920. Which brings us to the Summer, ANA 2024 coin showing a pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) that sold at just $1,684.00. Followed by the November, 2024 Heritage sale of the identical pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) at just $1,504.00.
But, for whatever reason BOTH record low price sales coins from Summer ANA 2024 and November, 2024 reappeared/are reappearing in Fun, 2025 and Long Beach, 2025! And when the “$1,684.00” Summer, ANA 2024 coin just reappeared at FUN, I bid $1,500.00 all in ($1,250.00 plus B.P.) and won the lowest priced 1961-P quarter to EVER cross the Heritage auction block and my roughly 25 year story comes to an end with me paying $1,500.00 for the coin date I offered to pay $5,000.00 way back when and even a bit more ten years later at David Poole’s auction.
The saga is over. Prices on this particular quarter date are clearly going “down, down, down” for now. But, once the “inventory” gets off the market hopefully with the sale of the November, 2024 Heritage coin making its reappearance in February, 2025, the fact remains that there are still only about two dozen 1961-P quarters that have ever achieved the Superb Gem grade at PCGS and most of them are now in strong hands. Who knows where we go from here, although if it is down to around $1,000, I’ll probably buy another because I know (or at least remember) just how scarce these coins truly are to a “hunter” like myself.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
Around (25) - (30) years ago, I was very actively trying to build the finest known Mint State Washington Quarter set possible. I devoted countless (hundreds and hundreds of) hours to the task. This included buying myriad fresh sealed bank rolls and trying to grade finest known MS67 coins from these rolls, especially from the mid-1940’s through 1964. Obviously, it was much more difficult to locate nearly any fresh rolls dated prior to 1943, even back searching in the late 1980’s and 1990’s. In my “hunt”, it became obvious even back then that the 1961-P Washington quarter (among a few others) was a scarce “beast” in the true grade of Superb Gem MS67.
If memory serves me right, I got tipped off by a dealer that another dealer had just made (or had access to) the very first PCGS-MS67 ever graded for the 1961-P quarter. I immediately reached out to that dealer and inquired about the coin. The dealer told me he had the coin in his possession, it was for sale, but wasn’t sure of the value of the coin. He asked me what I thought it was worth. I told him I would pay him $5,000 for the coin and that the MS66 coins one grade under were worth just a few hundred dollars. He immediately told me that sounded great and he would sell me the coin at my price and would ship it out to me. When it didn’t show up in the mail, I followed up and he told me that his customer ended up passing on my offer (I wasn’t even aware there was “a customer” at the time we originally spoke and did the deal) and he had planned to tell me the bad news, but was still trying to change his customer’s mind to get me the coin when I called. In the end, I never received the coin from that dealer.
In any event, this 1961-P quarter experience at the time changed everything for me on how I would handle negotiations when dealers lacked the knowledge of the Washington quarter market and its “top pops”, but also, this particular date became “poison” to me; I set my mind to buying this coin in the future for far less than my $5,000 offer. And I would wait however long it took to make sure I paid less than what I offered in good faith to this dealer.
Then, in November, 2003, Heritage offered the world the pop 2/0 coin of this date. I, of course, wondered if the coin Heritage was auctioning was a freshly made example of this date or “my” original pop 1 coin that I never received. Not that it mattered at that point. But, what did matter was that the coin sold for a strong $9,775.00! This quarter date became even stronger poison in my mind from there!
Ten years later, in January, 2013, when our fellow board member David Poole (who I liked and respected very much) sold his lovely Washington quarter set at Heritage, I convinced myself to “move on” and bid $5,002.00 hammer on his 1961-P MS67 quarter. The coin was just pop 3/0 at the time (recall it was pop 2/0 ten years earlier). I did so, and was the immediate UNDERBIDDER on the coin losing it to a bidder who completed the full bid at $5,250.00 hammer to win the coin! David at least thanked me for my strong bids on his auction; I was in the Heritage auction room live as was David Poole at the time.
But, then a strange thing happened. The populations on these silver quarters skyrocketed. The reason for that is for another thread, but it is interesting to note that when PCGS awarded my set the Hall of Fame award, I recall having around two dozen pop 1/0 coins in the collection of 83 coins!! A few years later, I went from having around (24) pop 1’s to ZERO pop 1’s! Now, of course, one day when I resubmit my former (24) pop 1’s, I hope I will regain a few of them as new pop 1’s with some upgrades. But, that is for another day. Back to the story of the 1961-P MS67 quarter…
About a year after David Poole’s pop 3/0 sale, Heritage sold the pop 5/0 coin for $3,819.00. And, three years after that in 2017, Heritage sold the pop 12 coin for $2,233.00. And, two years after that in 2019, the pop 35 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at $1,920.00 (from the Charlie O’s collection). I believe this might have been a typo in the auction description and should have been pop 25 (not 35). And, two years after that, the pop 27 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at the same $1,920. Which brings us to the Summer, ANA 2024 coin showing a pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) that sold at just $1,684.00. Followed by the November, 2024 Heritage sale of the identical pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) at just $1,504.00.
But, for whatever reason BOTH record low price sales coins from Summer ANA 2024 and November, 2024 reappeared/are reappearing in Fun, 2025 and Long Beach, 2025! And when the “$1,684.00” Summer, ANA 2024 coin just reappeared at FUN, I bid $1,500.00 all in ($1,250.00 plus B.P.) and won the lowest priced 1961-P quarter to EVER cross the Heritage auction block and my roughly 25 year story comes to an end with me paying $1,500.00 for the coin date I offered to pay $5,000.00 way back when and even a bit more ten years later at David Poole’s auction.
The saga is over. Prices on this particular quarter date are clearly going “down, down, down” for now. But, once the “inventory” gets off the market hopefully with the sale of the November, 2024 Heritage coin making its reappearance in February, 2025, the fact remains that there are still only about two dozen 1961-P quarters that have ever achieved the Superb Gem grade at PCGS and most of them are now in strong hands. Who knows where we go from here, although if it is down to around $1,000, I’ll probably buy another because I know (or at least remember) just how scarce these coins truly are to a “hunter” like myself.
Wondercoin
Really interesting story. Thank you.
It is a bit of a cautionary tale for the people posting single coin results and extrapolating to the entire market. This coin's history would suggest a 25 year bear market. Anecdotes are not statistics.
@wondercoin Great story. I would love to hear more stories from dealers about there dealings with individual collectors and at shows. Insider stories are great as so much of what happens behind the scenes is never told to the average collector.
@Cougar1978 said:
The gold sticker hobby is a sub hobby of coin collecting. Certainly not a market parameter.
True. But your post about rattlers, green stickers and the crazy Washington quarter result got me thinking. So, that’s the reason why I went in that gold sticker direction.
My best guess - For many an ego thing or potential upgrade (opportunity) plus MV upgrade like to CAC CPG. For others it’s like winning a pool for their swanky house (item from collection sent in to CAC). If the math MV increase more vs grading costs, sure.
@wondercoin said:
Around (25) - (30) years ago, I was very actively trying to build the finest known Mint State Washington Quarter set possible. I devoted countless (hundreds and hundreds of) hours to the task. This included buying myriad fresh sealed bank rolls and trying to grade finest known MS67 coins from these rolls, especially from the mid-1940’s through 1964. Obviously, it was much more difficult to locate nearly any fresh rolls dated prior to 1943, even back searching in the late 1980’s and 1990’s. In my “hunt”, it became obvious even back then that the 1961-P Washington quarter (among a few others) was a scarce “beast” in the true grade of Superb Gem MS67.
If memory serves me right, I got tipped off by a dealer that another dealer had just made (or had access to) the very first PCGS-MS67 ever graded for the 1961-P quarter. I immediately reached out to that dealer and inquired about the coin. The dealer told me he had the coin in his possession, it was for sale, but wasn’t sure of the value of the coin. He asked me what I thought it was worth. I told him I would pay him $5,000 for the coin and that the MS66 coins one grade under were worth just a few hundred dollars. He immediately told me that sounded great and he would sell me the coin at my price and would ship it out to me. When it didn’t show up in the mail, I followed up and he told me that his customer ended up passing on my offer (I wasn’t even aware there was “a customer” at the time we originally spoke and did the deal) and he had planned to tell me the bad news, but was still trying to change his customer’s mind to get me the coin when I called. In the end, I never received the coin from that dealer.
In any event, this 1961-P quarter experience at the time changed everything for me on how I would handle negotiations when dealers lacked the knowledge of the Washington quarter market and its “top pops”, but also, this particular date became “poison” to me; I set my mind to buying this coin in the future for far less than my $5,000 offer. And I would wait however long it took to make sure I paid less than what I offered in good faith to this dealer.
Then, in November, 2003, Heritage offered the world the pop 2/0 coin of this date. I, of course, wondered if the coin Heritage was auctioning was a freshly made example of this date or “my” original pop 1 coin that I never received. Not that it mattered at that point. But, what did matter was that the coin sold for a strong $9,775.00! This quarter date became even stronger poison in my mind from there!
Ten years later, in January, 2013, when our fellow board member David Poole (who I liked and respected very much) sold his lovely Washington quarter set at Heritage, I convinced myself to “move on” and bid $5,002.00 hammer on his 1961-P MS67 quarter. The coin was just pop 3/0 at the time (recall it was pop 2/0 ten years earlier). I did so, and was the immediate UNDERBIDDER on the coin losing it to a bidder who completed the full bid at $5,250.00 hammer to win the coin! David at least thanked me for my strong bids on his auction; I was in the Heritage auction room live as was David Poole at the time.
But, then a strange thing happened. The populations on these silver quarters skyrocketed. The reason for that is for another thread, but it is interesting to note that when PCGS awarded my set the Hall of Fame award, I recall having around two dozen pop 1/0 coins in the collection of 83 coins!! A few years later, I went from having around (24) pop 1’s to ZERO pop 1’s! Now, of course, one day when I resubmit my former (24) pop 1’s, I hope I will regain a few of them as new pop 1’s with some upgrades. But, that is for another day. Back to the story of the 1961-P MS67 quarter…
About a year after David Poole’s pop 3/0 sale, Heritage sold the pop 5/0 coin for $3,819.00. And, three years after that in 2017, Heritage sold the pop 12 coin for $2,233.00. And, two years after that in 2019, the pop 35 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at $1,920.00 (from the Charlie O’s collection). I believe this might have been a typo in the auction description and should have been pop 25 (not 35). And, two years after that, the pop 27 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at the same $1,920. Which brings us to the Summer, ANA 2024 coin showing a pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) that sold at just $1,684.00. Followed by the November, 2024 Heritage sale of the identical pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) at just $1,504.00.
But, for whatever reason BOTH record low price sales coins from Summer ANA 2024 and November, 2024 reappeared/are reappearing in Fun, 2025 and Long Beach, 2025! And when the “$1,684.00” Summer, ANA 2024 coin just reappeared at FUN, I bid $1,500.00 all in ($1,250.00 plus B.P.) and won the lowest priced 1961-P quarter to EVER cross the Heritage auction block and my roughly 25 year story comes to an end with me paying $1,500.00 for the coin date I offered to pay $5,000.00 way back when and even a bit more ten years later at David Poole’s auction.
The saga is over. Prices on this particular quarter date are clearly going “down, down, down” for now. But, once the “inventory” gets off the market hopefully with the sale of the November, 2024 Heritage coin making its reappearance in February, 2025, the fact remains that there are still only about two dozen 1961-P quarters that have ever achieved the Superb Gem grade at PCGS and most of them are now in strong hands. Who knows where we go from here, although if it is down to around $1,000, I’ll probably buy another because I know (or at least remember) just how scarce these coins truly are to a “hunter” like myself.
Wondercoin
.
Were any of these coins the "Type B" reverse hub ?
‘’Were any of these coins the "Type B" reverse hub ?’’
DCarr: I was the #1 PCGS set holder of the Type B&C silver quarters for the past 8/11 years and #1 or #2 for all 11 years. The best I was ever able to come up with for 1961 was an MS66+ (currently pop 2/1). Not too long ago, the sole MS67 specimen surfaced and was gobbled up by another collector. That’s a great variety coin!
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@HiBucky said:
So all those down arrows and the stagnant coin prices in the Coin Dealer Newsletter are a good indication of a strong
market ?
You need to look at where they are. For items like $20 gold, where pricing is bullion+premium, you will often have all red when gold pulls back even if the COIN market is strong. The red arrows I see are all in this categories. I do NOT see many down arrows for type coins. This is because silver and gold had pulled back. As gold and silver have been rebounding lately, you're likely to see ALL of those red arrows go green next month.
Since you want to use greysheet as the reference, it actually DISPROVES your original point other than for bullion and things like low grade common date Mercs and Walkers that trade at bullion prices. There are virtually NO down arrows for copper ot nickel coins and higher grade silver and gold.
Actually I do, indirectly. I'm invested in an energy ETF that includes Exxon & Chevron as the top holdings. If it goes up 10%, that'd cover gas expenditures for my vehicle for the next five years.
But on the coin side, I'm a collector before I'm investor, so lower prices would give me the opportunity to buy more (or buy better) coins, which I think was the point of your other comment.
But on the coin side, I'm a collector before I'm investor, so lower prices would give me the opportunity to buy more (or buy better) coins, which I think was the point of your other comment.
Your time frame has a lot to do with your perspective. Ideally you would want coin prices to go steadily upwards as they did until the late 1970s. Lower prices bringing fears of changing demographics and thus, possibilities of less interest in collectibles. In the 70's just about every collectible was considered an investment. Today numismatics is one of the few remaining investment possibilities.
@DisneyFan said:
Your time frame has a lot to do with your perspective. Ideally you would want coin prices to go steadily upwards as they did until the late 1970s. Lower prices bringing fears of changing demographics and thus, possibilities of less interest in collectibles. In the 70's just about every collectible was considered an investment. Today numismatics is one of the few remaining investment possibilities.
I don't invest in coins, I collect them. Who in their right mind would invest in 20c pieces? lol. That doesn't mean I'm not glad there's a mature, fairly stable and dynamic coin market that I can play around in. But if it dropped 90% overnight, I'd be able to acquire coins that I could only dream of owning today, and the quality of my collection would skyrocket.
@HiBucky . I get it. You sold some coins and lost money it happens. I don't know how old you are but this is nowheres NEAR the worst market. It is a simple fact. What you are selling plays a far larger role than when. Everytime.
I have only paid more than $500 dollars for a coin once in my life. That monetary amount plays a small role. Look up the coin market of 1989-1992. I sold coins for a profit back then but here was the caveat. None of them were Morgan Dollars and that was where the largest markdowns came. I also sold coins in 2007, which many consider a high point. I lost money on a number of coins i sold at that time. They were all common date Seated Halves I had found upgrades for.
During covid i was forced to sell coins every 3 month for 21 months. I sold a run of PCGS MS-64 RB 1880 to 1909 date set Indian head cents. I lost money on every single coin. To this day that stuns me. 6 months later I sold a group of 15 Seated Halves. I did not pay $200 for any one of those coins but recouped the losses on my Indian Heads cents and took in over $4,800. Those were better date coins.
Here is what I have learned in over 50 years. If you are selling a common coin (I can buy 5 right now today) you will be lucky to get 80% of your money back. If you are selling a better date that may take a month to a year to find you may make a10% profit to a 10% loss but usually just break even. If you have a rarer daye you will PAY for it. If the market gets excited by the date or variety you may make a handsome profit. I have had coins quadrupal. On the other hand the market may drag for yewars (decades) but you will usually get you money back.
If I were you i would stop worrying about the market and concentrate on WHAT you buy. James
Just focus on what you can buy right that is a good inventory acquisition.
Sometimes I reduce prices on selected material to get increased cashflow when choppy seas. For shows - one whale big spender can make a huge difference. Right now since slightly over plan inventory unless item super pickup….no real pressure to buy. With parameters I use - tracked gold and silver bullion outperforming numismatic coins (Pcgs 3000) last 14 mo.
Cash flow important- Breaking even before deducting Opex however does not cut it.
@DisneyFan said:
Your time frame has a lot to do with your perspective. Ideally you would want coin prices to go steadily upwards as they did until the late 1970s. Lower prices bringing fears of changing demographics and thus, possibilities of less interest in collectibles. In the 70's just about every collectible was considered an investment. Today numismatics is one of the few remaining investment possibilities.
I don't invest in coins, I collect them. Who in their right mind would invest in 20c pieces? lol. That doesn't mean I'm not glad there's a mature, fairly stable and dynamic coin market that I can play around in. But if it dropped 90% overnight, I'd be able to acquire coins that I could only dream of owning today, and the quality of my collection would skyrocket.
Seriously! 20c pieces, get real. Good investors should buy purposefully damaged coins.
@DisneyFan said:
Your time frame has a lot to do with your perspective. Ideally you would want coin prices to go steadily upwards as they did until the late 1970s. Lower prices bringing fears of changing demographics and thus, possibilities of less interest in collectibles. In the 70's just about every collectible was considered an investment. Today numismatics is one of the few remaining investment possibilities.
I don't invest in coins, I collect them. Who in their right mind would invest in 20c pieces? lol. That doesn't mean I'm not glad there's a mature, fairly stable and dynamic coin market that I can play around in. But if it dropped 90% overnight, I'd be able to acquire coins that I could only dream of owning today, and the quality of my collection would skyrocket.
If your 20c pieces dropped 90%, they may never recover in value and while you may still enjoy collecting them, nobody else may see the value in them. I've seen it happen with collecting Lionel Trains.
P.S. I'd love to add a 20c piece to my 1871 type set collection (my grandparents' birth year); but, 1871s don't exist.
If i were in the market for a 1952 quarter, I won't even put a "watch this lot" on that one. I know it probably came from a mint set, but to me it's ugly as sin. If you can grade it through all of that tarnish, more power to you.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
If the market is soft, I sure didn't see at the FUN show. The quotes that came my way were all on the high retail side. Maybe I'm now regarded as a rich old fuddy-duddy who's over the hill and "meat on the table," but I've seen soft markets before, this did not seem like one.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Sotheby's saw a 24% drop in auction/art sales in 2024 which is a pretty big drop. So high-end $$$ purchases for luxury collectibles are definitely not what they were in 2021-23.
We may be seeing a bit of that in higher-priced coins and bills and of course, it can filter down a bit more into less-expensive purchases (but not 3- and 4-figure stuff)
Comments
I have been following Walker auctions, as I always do, and the last several days of FUN Show results were not particularly strong but they were steady.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Economic uncertainty and instability put a damper on numismatics to some extent. "Deals" always draw interest, as well as the popular mainstays in the hobby with low risk.
Wow there are some big waves out there. Wager 2 rich bidders got in a bid war.
What is it about a gold sticker??
This is a $200 coin, at best.
Even a 67 isn’t worth more than $500-$600.
This sold for $1850 ($2081.25 w/bp)!!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Yeah, but a 68 is $4k
Until it gets in 68 plastic, it is only wishful thinking.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Gold stickers are guaranteed to cross to CACG at “at least” a point higher, and some may believe the coin is better than a point ahead. Then add in the people that collect gold stickers, toss in an OGH, and you have a lot of competition.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Yes and no. People do buy the coin not the holder. And if two people feel that coin had a chance, you will get the premium.
Market is soft for United States dreck and I ought to know !!
Gold CAC stickered coins represent a tiny portion of the "market". Why choose that from among the other many thousands of more representative examples to support the notion that the market isn't soft?
Someone could just as easily use an example of a dark, ugly over-graded coin to show that the market's weak.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I didn’t choose it to prove the market isn’t soft. I chose it to ask why CAC gold stickers sell for astronomical amounts…even multiples of the next grade up.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
In that case, you chose the wrong thread in which to ask.
This ones about whether the "market" is soft.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The gold sticker hobby is a sub hobby of coin collecting. Certainly not a market parameter.
True. But your post about rattlers, green stickers and the crazy Washington quarter result got me thinking. So, that’s the reason why I went in that gold sticker direction.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Can you comment on the different categories of MS and PF Walkers? The pre 1934s vs the later dates. Also CACs (CACGs) vs. the non sticker coins?
i dont know whats selling soft... the stuff i like is still driving me toward bankruptcy
Some areas are definitely still going up. I've been working on completing a Washington quarter set for 5 years now and many of the more common MS 66 dates are selling for way more than I paid for them in the past.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I usually only follow the pre-1940 MS coins.
I don't follow later dates or Proofs, too much.
1916-P/D/S in 62, 63, 64 & 65 did very well and have been on an upward trend for the last decade.
The 1917-S rev. and obverse both in 63 were soft. The 65 S obv did well. the 64 S rev. with the CAC sticker did well and I didn't even particularly like the coin. The 64+ CAC was of better quality and sold for just a little more. The d Obverse in 64 held steady. The D reverse in 63 was soft.
The 1918 P 64 did well and has also been on an upward trend. The 1918-S in 64 did poorly, imho, and I don't know why. The toned 18-D in 65 did MUCH better than it's white counterpart, which i felt was a soft price.
The 1919-P/D/S coins in 63 and 64 were surprisingly weak price-wise but they were unspectacular examples, imho.
The 1920-Ds in 65 and 66 did OK but sold for WAY below retail (I didn't like the 66, at all, even though it had a CAC sticker). The 65 without the CAC actually did much better than it's 65 CAC counterpart. That's a super rare issue that barely comes up and has gone up quite a bit over the years. The 1920 P and S held steady.
The 1921 Ps in 62 and 65 were steady and sold for what I expected. The 1921-D in 65 held steady to a little above and it was a substandard coin, imho. A better example would have sold for more. The 1921-S in 65 and 66 sold for less than I have seen, in years past, but still obviously an extremely pricey coin(s).
The 1923-S in 65 OGH was a bargain imho @ $12600. The other 65 sold for even LESS. Definitely a buyer's market there.
The 1927-S in 64 held steady but the 66 sold at a lower price than I had predicted (I didn't care for it).
The 1928-S coins in 65 were fair to middling.
The 1929-D/S were average and held steady. They have neither lost nor gained value over the last several years.
the 1933-S held steady, too.
What really surprises me is the 1934-S. This coin is a rare issue and has really come down in value, over the last few years. I see some potential there, as I feel that it may recover in the coming years.
Those are my thoughts, FWIW.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Good catch.....do you have a recent sales price for that coin when it sold most recently a few years ago ? That way we can compare apples-to-apples.
This coin is also one of the most famous that many people have heard of. It's a very famous penny...the DDO strike...lot of people interested in it who might not care about other coins of this type (similar to some of the high-priced CC DEs or Saints).
I did see the same currency bills in the FUN Signature Currency Auction going for flat-to-down pricing for many 4- and 5-figure bills.
I'M IMPRESSED!!!
How much value of that amount was placed on the holder only?
I only include the following reference to sports cards in this topic as both are collectible markets. To make a comparison.
Been going on for decades. We get high end sales while the lower material flounders. One month with the latest releases the product is "flying off the shelves", "drying up", "can't find it anywhere". Few months later it is seen in the rest view mirror. Next release, rinse and repeat. You get your Mantles,Jordans reaping the big headlines with hundreds of thousands or millions in sales. But by and large the average collector is in the lower end market. If those aren't selling it's a soft market, while high end is moving,hit market.
Can't paint either market with a broad brush. Hot and cold markets are always there regardless of price level of collectibles.
You're move.
Intended for those of you out there interested in perhaps better understanding the silver Washington quarter series (as well as M. Feld since I will be discussing Heritage here). Anyone who doesn’t care, please just skip my posts here.
Lots of talk here about silver Washington Quarters and just how wonderful many of them are performing. Well, as some of you may know, I was the first PCGS HALL OF FAME Registry winner for this particular coin series (and it appears the only one ever to receive that honor from PCGS from what I see). I want to share a story with you about a very scarce coin: the 1961-P Washington Quarter in the top grade of PCGS-MS67 (even to this day just 25 coins in that grade without a single coin graded higher). But, before I share my story, take a look at the last (4) PCGS-MS67 “pop top” coins of this date auctioned / to be auctioned at Heritage since the Summer of 2022. In that 2 1/2+ year time period, there were only (4) auction appearances of this scarce coin (including the one coming up next month). Take a look at these (4) appearances and I will then share my “bedtime story” on this particular silver quarter date in a short while.
Wondercoin
Around (25) - (30) years ago, I was very actively trying to build the finest known Mint State Washington Quarter set possible. I devoted countless (hundreds and hundreds of) hours to the task. This included buying myriad fresh sealed bank rolls and trying to grade finest known MS67 coins from these rolls, especially from the mid-1940’s through 1964. Obviously, it was much more difficult to locate nearly any fresh rolls dated prior to 1943, even back searching in the late 1980’s and 1990’s. In my “hunt”, it became obvious even back then that the 1961-P Washington quarter (among a few others) was a scarce “beast” in the true grade of Superb Gem MS67.
If memory serves me right, I got tipped off by a dealer that another dealer had just made (or had access to) the very first PCGS-MS67 ever graded for the 1961-P quarter. I immediately reached out to that dealer and inquired about the coin. The dealer told me he had the coin in his possession, it was for sale, but wasn’t sure of the value of the coin. He asked me what I thought it was worth. I told him I would pay him $5,000 for the coin and that the MS66 coins one grade under were worth just a few hundred dollars. He immediately told me that sounded great and he would sell me the coin at my price and would ship it out to me. When it didn’t show up in the mail, I followed up and he told me that his customer ended up passing on my offer (I wasn’t even aware there was “a customer” at the time we originally spoke and did the deal) and he had planned to tell me the bad news, but was still trying to change his customer’s mind to get me the coin when I called. In the end, I never received the coin from that dealer.
In any event, this 1961-P quarter experience at the time changed everything for me on how I would handle negotiations when dealers lacked the knowledge of the Washington quarter market and its “top pops”, but also, this particular date became “poison” to me; I set my mind to buying this coin in the future for far less than my $5,000 offer. And I would wait however long it took to make sure I paid less than what I offered in good faith to this dealer.
Then, in November, 2003, Heritage offered the world the pop 2/0 coin of this date. I, of course, wondered if the coin Heritage was auctioning was a freshly made example of this date or “my” original pop 1 coin that I never received. Not that it mattered at that point. But, what did matter was that the coin sold for a strong $9,775.00! This quarter date became even stronger poison in my mind from there!
Ten years later, in January, 2013, when our fellow board member David Poole (who I liked and respected very much) sold his lovely Washington quarter set at Heritage, I convinced myself to “move on” and bid $5,002.00 hammer on his 1961-P MS67 quarter. The coin was just pop 3/0 at the time (recall it was pop 2/0 ten years earlier). I did so, and was the immediate UNDERBIDDER on the coin losing it to a bidder who completed the full bid at $5,250.00 hammer to win the coin! David at least thanked me for my strong bids on his auction; I was in the Heritage auction room live as was David Poole at the time.
But, then a strange thing happened. The populations on these silver quarters skyrocketed. The reason for that is for another thread, but it is interesting to note that when PCGS awarded my set the Hall of Fame award, I recall having around two dozen pop 1/0 coins in the collection of 83 coins!! A few years later, I went from having around (24) pop 1’s to ZERO pop 1’s! Now, of course, one day when I resubmit my former (24) pop 1’s, I hope I will regain a few of them as new pop 1’s with some upgrades. But, that is for another day. Back to the story of the 1961-P MS67 quarter…
About a year after David Poole’s pop 3/0 sale, Heritage sold the pop 5/0 coin for $3,819.00. And, three years after that in 2017, Heritage sold the pop 12 coin for $2,233.00. And, two years after that in 2019, the pop 35 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at $1,920.00 (from the Charlie O’s collection). I believe this might have been a typo in the auction description and should have been pop 25 (not 35). And, two years after that, the pop 27 coin (including -2- in MS67+) at the same $1,920. Which brings us to the Summer, ANA 2024 coin showing a pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) that sold at just $1,684.00. Followed by the November, 2024 Heritage sale of the identical pop 25 (including -3- in MS67+) at just $1,504.00.
But, for whatever reason BOTH record low price sales coins from Summer ANA 2024 and November, 2024 reappeared/are reappearing in Fun, 2025 and Long Beach, 2025! And when the “$1,684.00” Summer, ANA 2024 coin just reappeared at FUN, I bid $1,500.00 all in ($1,250.00 plus B.P.) and won the lowest priced 1961-P quarter to EVER cross the Heritage auction block and my roughly 25 year story comes to an end with me paying $1,500.00 for the coin date I offered to pay $5,000.00 way back when and even a bit more ten years later at David Poole’s auction.
The saga is over. Prices on this particular quarter date are clearly going “down, down, down” for now. But, once the “inventory” gets off the market hopefully with the sale of the November, 2024 Heritage coin making its reappearance in February, 2025, the fact remains that there are still only about two dozen 1961-P quarters that have ever achieved the Superb Gem grade at PCGS and most of them are now in strong hands. Who knows where we go from here, although if it is down to around $1,000, I’ll probably buy another because I know (or at least remember) just how scarce these coins truly are to a “hunter” like myself.
Wondercoin
Really interesting story. Thank you.
It is a bit of a cautionary tale for the people posting single coin results and extrapolating to the entire market. This coin's history would suggest a 25 year bear market. Anecdotes are not statistics.
Great story @wondercoin, thanks for sharing.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
@wondercoin . Very interesting. I was minted in 1961 also, which made the story even more interesting to me. James
@wondercoin Great story. I would love to hear more stories from dealers about there dealings with individual collectors and at shows. Insider stories are great as so much of what happens behind the scenes is never told to the average collector.
I also was minted in 1961.
My best guess - For many an ego thing or potential upgrade (opportunity) plus MV upgrade like to CAC CPG. For others it’s like winning a pool for their swanky house (item from collection sent in to CAC). If the math MV increase more vs grading costs, sure.
.
Were any of these coins the "Type B" reverse hub ?
.
Felt downright giddy when I hit my top pops in the 2019s American Memorial.
Planned to keep them, but after a couple sleepless nights, sold them both for around $3500 combined.
Shockongly, the 68 and 67+ still stand alone.
Plucked from two random rolls at a show. Figured if it was that easy... best take the money and run.
... and I obviously spent a bunch of 66/67's.
Both rolls were solid.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Congratulations! Nice when you win!😎
The coins could be reasonably priced but the holders are expensive.
I don't collect holders.
‘’Were any of these coins the "Type B" reverse hub ?’’
DCarr: I was the #1 PCGS set holder of the Type B&C silver quarters for the past 8/11 years and #1 or #2 for all 11 years. The best I was ever able to come up with for 1961 was an MS66+ (currently pop 2/1). Not too long ago, the sole MS67 specimen surfaced and was gobbled up by another collector. That’s a great variety coin!
Wondercoin.
So all those down arrows and the stagnant coin prices in the Coin Dealer Newsletter are a good indication of a strong
market ?
You need to look at where they are. For items like $20 gold, where pricing is bullion+premium, you will often have all red when gold pulls back even if the COIN market is strong. The red arrows I see are all in this categories. I do NOT see many down arrows for type coins. This is because silver and gold had pulled back. As gold and silver have been rebounding lately, you're likely to see ALL of those red arrows go green next month.
Since you want to use greysheet as the reference, it actually DISPROVES your original point other than for bullion and things like low grade common date Mercs and Walkers that trade at bullion prices. There are virtually NO down arrows for copper ot nickel coins and higher grade silver and gold.
Do you get this worrisome when you pay less at the gas pump or if a particular item you like is on sale at the store?
If I owned a couple tankers of gas or a hoard of the particular item that I paid more for, I might.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
But you don’t, or do you? 😉
Actually I do, indirectly. I'm invested in an energy ETF that includes Exxon & Chevron as the top holdings. If it goes up 10%, that'd cover gas expenditures for my vehicle for the next five years.
But on the coin side, I'm a collector before I'm investor, so lower prices would give me the opportunity to buy more (or buy better) coins, which I think was the point of your other comment.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Your time frame has a lot to do with your perspective. Ideally you would want coin prices to go steadily upwards as they did until the late 1970s. Lower prices bringing fears of changing demographics and thus, possibilities of less interest in collectibles. In the 70's just about every collectible was considered an investment. Today numismatics is one of the few remaining investment possibilities.
IMO there are still investment opportunities at the high end of many collectibles.
Sports cards, Comic books, Classic artworks, Modern art, Sports cars, Watches...etc.
It's been said here many times, the really good stuff will always be good.
I don't invest in coins, I collect them. Who in their right mind would invest in 20c pieces? lol. That doesn't mean I'm not glad there's a mature, fairly stable and dynamic coin market that I can play around in. But if it dropped 90% overnight, I'd be able to acquire coins that I could only dream of owning today, and the quality of my collection would skyrocket.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
@HiBucky . I get it. You sold some coins and lost money it happens. I don't know how old you are but this is nowheres NEAR the worst market. It is a simple fact. What you are selling plays a far larger role than when. Everytime.
I have only paid more than $500 dollars for a coin once in my life. That monetary amount plays a small role. Look up the coin market of 1989-1992. I sold coins for a profit back then but here was the caveat. None of them were Morgan Dollars and that was where the largest markdowns came. I also sold coins in 2007, which many consider a high point. I lost money on a number of coins i sold at that time. They were all common date Seated Halves I had found upgrades for.
During covid i was forced to sell coins every 3 month for 21 months. I sold a run of PCGS MS-64 RB 1880 to 1909 date set Indian head cents. I lost money on every single coin. To this day that stuns me. 6 months later I sold a group of 15 Seated Halves. I did not pay $200 for any one of those coins but recouped the losses on my Indian Heads cents and took in over $4,800. Those were better date coins.
Here is what I have learned in over 50 years. If you are selling a common coin (I can buy 5 right now today) you will be lucky to get 80% of your money back. If you are selling a better date that may take a month to a year to find you may make a10% profit to a 10% loss but usually just break even. If you have a rarer daye you will PAY for it. If the market gets excited by the date or variety you may make a handsome profit. I have had coins quadrupal. On the other hand the market may drag for yewars (decades) but you will usually get you money back.
If I were you i would stop worrying about the market and concentrate on WHAT you buy. James
Just focus on what you can buy right that is a good inventory acquisition.
Sometimes I reduce prices on selected material to get increased cashflow when choppy seas. For shows - one whale big spender can make a huge difference. Right now since slightly over plan inventory unless item super pickup….no real pressure to buy. With parameters I use - tracked gold and silver bullion outperforming numismatic coins (Pcgs 3000) last 14 mo.
Cash flow important- Breaking even before deducting Opex however does not cut it.
Seriously! 20c pieces, get real. Good investors should buy purposefully damaged coins.
If your 20c pieces dropped 90%, they may never recover in value and while you may still enjoy collecting them, nobody else may see the value in them. I've seen it happen with collecting Lionel Trains.
P.S. I'd love to add a 20c piece to my 1871 type set collection (my grandparents' birth year); but, 1871s don't exist.
If i were in the market for a 1952 quarter, I won't even put a "watch this lot" on that one. I know it probably came from a mint set, but to me it's ugly as sin. If you can grade it through all of that tarnish, more power to you.
If the market is soft, I sure didn't see at the FUN show. The quotes that came my way were all on the high retail side. Maybe I'm now regarded as a rich old fuddy-duddy who's over the hill and "meat on the table," but I've seen soft markets before, this did not seem like one.
Sotheby's saw a 24% drop in auction/art sales in 2024 which is a pretty big drop. So high-end $$$ purchases for luxury collectibles are definitely not what they were in 2021-23.
We may be seeing a bit of that in higher-priced coins and bills and of course, it can filter down a bit more into less-expensive purchases (but not 3- and 4-figure stuff)