The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
Mint shenanigans. Been going on for ever. Nothing new.
Martin
Edited to add glad i decided not to buy one from the mint and did what Freddie quarter suggested. I got my new marine electronics and will
Get out and enjoy the river.
Coin collecting is supposed to be fun not stressful to buy a coin from the
Mint. And not arguing just to get the last word in
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
That's awesome! Thanks for posting it. Many of us believed they minted only 10k. End of story and speculation as far as I'm concerned. I have a feeling somebody else will continue to deny and further speculate!! 10k, eom!!!!
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Be careful who you call a moron. You very well might be eating those words in 2025 or 2026.
I always stand by my statements. Consider this another learning opportunity.
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
There's ALWAYS more words to be written. That didn't mean there was anything else being said.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, I would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
Moron may not have been the most appropriate word, but was a watered down term that would be acceptable. Just calling it as it is and how easily recognized even by most here.
Excellent news!
10,000, a number I like.
My favorite part:
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history
‘’making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history’’
The spouse series with sub-2000 mintages all but forgotten. lol. $5 modern Commems now sub-2,000 mintage forgotten as well. The burnished gold series with mintages nearly half this amount all but forgotten. The 2006 Rev Pr Gold worth little over melt with the same sub-10,000 mintage. The 10k mintage saved these coins from falling to close to melt quickly and will keep the $5,000 selling prices for 70 grade fancy label coins status quo for a while. But, the handwriting is on the wall- the Mint can only sell sub-15,000 mintage gold coins at these overpriced levels and watch for low mintage gold new releases falling through the cracks, left and right.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
‘’making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history’’
The spouse series with sub-2000 mintages all but forgotten. lol. $5 modern Commems now sub-2,000 mintage forgotten as well. The burnished gold series with mintages nearly half this amount all but forgotten. The 2006 Rev Pr Gold worth little over melt with the same sub-10,000 mintage. The 10k mintage saved these coins from falling to close to melt quickly and will keep the $5,000 selling prices for 70 grade fancy label coins status quo for a while. But, the handwriting is on the wall- the Mint can only sell sub-15,000 mintage gold coins at these overpriced levels and watch for low mintage gold new releases falling through the cracks, left and right.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
Mitch, obviously, there was a glitch which caused two little words to be omitted from the Mint’s statement regarding the coin’s mintage.
Instead of ‘’making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history’’, the statement was meant to be ‘’making it one of the lowest most recent mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.” 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, I would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
Moron may not have been the most appropriate word, but was a watered down term that would be acceptable. Just calling it as it is and how easily recognized even by most here.
As far as my point… it was proven.
Good luck to you.
95+% of us were also proven to be correct....WITHOUT calling anyone names.
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Be careful who you call a moron. You very well might be eating those words in 2025 or 2026.
I always stand by my statements. Consider this another learning opportunity.
You should do the same. It's not yet 2025 or 2026.
You are now hanging your hat, and reputation, on the statements of someone who has been doing nothing but making misstatements since the silver medal was released. Good luck with that. I'm sticking by my prediction, because the alternative makes no economic sense for the Mint.
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Ignoring me, as opposed to refusing me the last word, would possibly be a start. Please note that I never ask anyone to refrain from posting, or from responding to me. Anyone who would be stunned if there was a path to me giving it a rest probably shouldn't waste time or effort trying to get me to do so. Including the folks "liking" your post. 😀
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Ignoring me, as opposed to refusing me the last word, would possibly be a start. Please note that I never ask anyone to refrain from posting, or from responding to me. Anyone who would be stunned if there was a path to me giving it a rest probably shouldn't waste time or effort trying to get me to do so. Including the folks "liking" your post. 😀
It would be a start to nowhere. I tried once to get you to give it a rest and that was all it took to realize it was futile.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Ignoring me, as opposed to refusing me the last word, would possibly be a start. Please note that I never ask anyone to refrain from posting, or from responding to me. Anyone who would be stunned if there was a path to me giving it a rest probably shouldn't waste time or effort trying to get me to do so. Including the folks "liking" your post. 😀
Respectfully, you reply to people who aren't directly addressing you. I'm not sure you could call that "refusing me the last word".
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Ignoring me, as opposed to refusing me the last word, would possibly be a start. Please note that I never ask anyone to refrain from posting, or from responding to me. Anyone who would be stunned if there was a path to me giving it a rest probably shouldn't waste time or effort trying to get me to do so. Including the folks "liking" your post. 😀
It would be a start to nowhere. I tried once to get you to give it a rest and that was all it took to realize it was futile.
Which is fine. It's futile, so no reason to make a post calling for it, no?
I can still remember that enthusiastic Mint rep at the Baltimore Coin Expo on November 15th(day after sale) claiming "we sold all 17,500 coins!" Hopefully Mr. Michael White will tell the coin buying public the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the FH Au coins from the launch to the instant 'sell-out!'
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Ignoring me, as opposed to refusing me the last word, would possibly be a start. Please note that I never ask anyone to refrain from posting, or from responding to me. Anyone who would be stunned if there was a path to me giving it a rest probably shouldn't waste time or effort trying to get me to do so. Including the folks "liking" your post. 😀
Respectfully, you reply to people who aren't directly addressing you. I'm not sure you could call that "refusing me the last word".
Perhaps. In all fairness, I did say "possibly be a start," not "definitely would achieve the result someone seeks." Directly addressing me, indirectly addressing me, not addressing me at all. What's the difference if they are saying something I want to address myself?
All I'm saying is that publicly calling me out to give anything a rest is probably less likely to get me to give anything a rest than just ignoring anything I post that anyone finds, redundant, annoying, etc. I will note that, while my posts admittedly tend to be long-winded, I VERY rarely actually start a thread. 99.9% of my posts are responses to something someone else says.
All I'm saying is that publicly calling me out to give anything a rest is probably less likely to get me to give anything a rest than just ignoring anything I post that anyone finds, redundant, annoying, etc. I will note that, while my posts admittedly tend to be long-winded, I VERY rarely actually start a thread. 99.9% of my posts are responses to something someone else says.
All I'm saying is that publicly calling me out to give anything a rest is probably less likely to get me to give anything a rest than just ignoring anything I post that anyone finds, redundant, annoying, etc. I will note that, while my posts admittedly tend to be long-winded, I VERY rarely actually start a thread. 99.9% of my posts are responses to something someone else says.
It appears you have a 'reactive' personality!
True that. I make my points, and then feel compelled to defend them when people disagree.
But, again, I never start any of this. The issue with anyone who becomes annoyed is that they want to tell me I'm wrong without having to deal with me responding. Over and over and over.
Because, seemingly, I am never allowed to have the last word. Directly, indirectly, whatever.
I'm never right. Louis Golino reported that Michael White said that only 10K coins were made, after previously saying the entire authorized mintage (17,500) was made, with no explanation for the discrepancy.
So that's the final word, and no more will ever be sold. Case closed. Until more are later sold, and Michael White comes back and says, yeah, more were sold. Same with ABPP limits, authorized mintage versus actual mintage, etc.
They say what they say. It either means something or it doesn't. Right now, it doesn't.
Having people plan for a mintage of 17.5K, after they announce 17.5K were made, and then missing out when it turns out only 10K were ever made, is a big deal. 75% difference. The US Mint is not immune from market forces that impact all world mints. Many played games like this with their lucrative numismatic programs, and found demand dry up over time as collectors got tired being repeatedly jerked around.
I wish them lots of luck directing disproportionate shares of desirable new issues to ABPP participants, far beyond announced limits, not being transparent about it, pulling the rug out from people by not making the announced maximum of high demand items, etc. People will get tired, as they always do. The market reaction to the $15 per coin increase in the Morgan and Peace Dollars this year is just one example.
@Goldminers said:
Did they actually mint 10,000 or 17,500?
We have all year, or maybe two years, to read the same two totally different answers, over and over on this forum.
So far, the Mint spokesman, Michael White, has not answered my queries. Until I see it directly in writing from official documentation from the US Mint, not a coin magazine, or hear it on a live phone call, I still believe there is a chance only 10,000 were minted.
I called Michael White on the phone (202) 354-7222 Dec 2nd early in the morning and asked how many were really minted and if these were sold out. Now I see he did answer my query. Not sure how many others also called, but it appears the words discussing authorized maximum mintage is not as definitive as some suggested. They authorized 17,500, and then they only authorized 10,000. LOL
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Three of the most sought after gold coins from the modern Mint and just consider the mintages.
The total mintage of the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) Double Eagle gold coin was 114,427. After (15) years, the coin is worth about $200 - $250 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2006-W Reverse Proof $50 Gold coin was around 9,998. After (18) years, the coin is worth about $500 - $600 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2024 Flowing Hair high relief gold coin is currently 9,935. After a few weeks, it is currently worth about $1,250 - $1,500 over spot.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Three of the most sought after gold coins from the modern Mint and just consider the mintages.
The total mintage of the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) Double Eagle gold coin was 114,427. After (15) years, the coin is worth about $200 - $250 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2006-W Reverse Proof $50 Gold coin was around 9,998. After (18) years, the coin is worth about $500 - $600 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2024 Flowing Hair high relief gold coin is currently 9,935. It is currently worth about $1,250 - $1,400 over spot.
Wondercoin
This is all well and good, but why not be transparent about they were going to do up front, if they are finally listening to collector concerns about retaining value in the future?
In this case, I have been saying from the beginning that 12.5K would be the right number, based on the American Liberty High Relief Gold series. And that 17.5K was aggressive at a $1K+ premium to spot. And that it would not likely sell out at all, or if, so, not for days or weeks after release.
A 4 minute sell out made me confess I was wrong. Followed by the disclosure that they only made 10K available for sale. I'm still not sure more won't be coming later, in another product.
But, if 10K really is all that there is ever going to be, why not let people know ahead of time? All they accomplished was damaging their credibility, and angering people who passed at 17.5K but would have jumped in at 10K.
For what purpose, other than maybe to benefit ABPP buyers with a disproportionate share of what was destined from the very beginning to be an unexpectedly low mintage? Not exactly a formula for making friends and influencing people long term, since without engaged end users who don't feel as though they are being played, these are all nothing more than bullion.
@Martin said:
Mint shenanigans. Been going on for ever. Nothing new.
Martin
Edited to add glad i decided not to buy one from the mint and did what Freddie quarter suggested. I got my new marine electronics and will
Get out and enjoy the river.
Coin collecting is supposed to be fun not stressful to buy a coin from the
Mint. And not arguing just to get the last word in
Nice job and I am glad you are happy with your decision! I am counting down the days for our Shad seasonal run to begin in March! Coins are fun but nothing beats the relaxation and comraderie of fishing!🎣🎣🎣
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future. There really is nothing else to say.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
Never gonna happen.... you can count on him rambling on more than you can count on the Mint!!🤣😂
@Martin said:
Mint shenanigans. Been going on for ever. Nothing new.
Martin
Edited to add glad i decided not to buy one from the mint and did what Freddie quarter suggested. I got my new marine electronics and will
Get out and enjoy the river.
Coin collecting is supposed to be fun not stressful to buy a coin from the
Mint. And not arguing just to get the last word in
Nice job and I am glad you are happy with your decision! I am counting down the days for our Shad seasonal run to begin in March! Coins are fun but nothing beats the relaxation and comraderie of fishing!🎣🎣🎣
You’re happy you didn’t buy this coin or put another way glad you didn’t make an easy $600 before you went fishing. Wrong decision own it.
Three of the most sought after gold coins from the modern Mint and just consider the mintages.
The total mintage of the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) Double Eagle gold coin was 114,427. After (15) years, the coin is worth about $200 - $250 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2006-W Reverse Proof $50 Gold coin was around 9,998. After (18) years, the coin is worth about $500 - $600 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2024 Flowing Hair high relief gold coin is currently 9,935. After a few weeks, it is currently worth about $1,250 - $1,500 over spot.
Wondercoin
To be fair - most of these lower mintage modern golds that have a premium to spot when they are released get swallowed up when spot gold rises quickly, the premium is smaller and smaller.
The 2006-W RP $50 in PCGS FS 70 was selling at $4000 at $1500 gold. The coin hasnt moved from that price point in many years, now that gold is $2700 - the coin sells for $4200. Premium is being eroded.
As for the modern First Spouses which have some ultra low mintages, the problem there is demand. Most people dont like them and never did.
I suspect the wide distribution of these gold coins and once the dealers supplies are sold off and in collectors hands - this coin should perform as well or better than the "Bucking Horse" American Liberty High Relief. It has some legs.
It is a beautiful coin in hand. Very nice.
@Rc5280 said:
Interesting...
Some are still arguing, even today mind you, that "authorized mintage", and "mintage limit" mean the same thing....
Lololol
They do. Somewhere in these threads i posted Mint statements proving it.
It's fairly easy to find then if you want. The fact that Mr. White changed or clarified his story doesn't change the meaning. Authorization refers to creation of the coin offering, either by Congress or the Mint. It has never meant a work order sent to the presses. If it did, the "authorized mintage" for things like ASE's would have dozens of different values.
@Rc5280 said:
Interesting...
Some are still arguing, even today mind you, that "authorized mintage", and "mintage limit" mean the same thing....
Lololol
@Rc5280 said:
Interesting...
Some are still arguing, even today mind you, that "authorized mintage", and "mintage limit" mean the same thing....
Lololol
Please find ANY evidence for your claim that it has EVER been used to mean something else.
@Rc5280 said:
Interesting...
Some are still arguing, even today mind you, that "authorized mintage", and "mintage limit" mean the same thing....
Lololol
Comments
Great. But, as with most other things surrounding this, it raises more questions than it answers.
Given that the Mint opted not to exercise its option to mint to the maximum, why did Mr, White explicitly tell Coin World that they did? Also, given that "no more than 10% of products with limited quantities will be distributed under this program" (ABPP) how do they explain 20% of the product actually produced for each item going to ABPP?
It is now a pattern, and a disappointing one at that, that all of these so-called reporters are more interested in maintaining their relationship with the Mint than in asking obvious questions and getting answers. Apparently because it is more important not to make people like Mr. White uncomfortable than to deliver accurate information, or to get explanations as to why previously provided information was misleading and inaccurate.
Just spoon feeding us whatever the Mint gives them, and then just following it up later with information that does nothing more than reflect whatever actually happened, with no attempt to explain inconsistencies, does nothing to instill confidence in anything we are actually being told. Duly noted for the future.
Other than, given the history, Mr. White saying no more coins or medals will be released does not mean no more coins or medals will be released. He now has no credibility, and nothing he says means anything.
"Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets." My speculation remains that 7500 were held back for inclusion in a future product containing other related gold coins, because there is otherwise absolutely no reason for the Mint to leave all that money on the table given the overwhleming demand for the product. That will be shown to either be true or false when the next related coin is released, with a Product Limit either 7500 less than a Mintage Limit, or not.
The Mint will do whatever it wants, and Mr. White will do nothing more than confirm it after the fact. Which is actually worthless, since we can all read a sales report without help from Mr. White. Oh, and no more than 10% to ABPP means whatever quantity the Mint arbitrarily determines, on a case-by-case basis, to ABPP. Got it!!
Mint shenanigans. Been going on for ever. Nothing new.
Martin
Edited to add glad i decided not to buy one from the mint and did what Freddie quarter suggested. I got my new marine electronics and will
Get out and enjoy the river.
Coin collecting is supposed to be fun not stressful to buy a coin from the
Mint. And not arguing just to get the last word in
That's awesome! Thanks for posting it. Many of us believed they minted only 10k. End of story and speculation as far as I'm concerned. I have a feeling somebody else will continue to deny and further speculate!! 10k, eom!!!!
I like half way through your post you state there’s nothing else to say. Then you continue on for 3 more paragraphs. Give it a rest please.
I always stand by my statements. Consider this another learning opportunity.
There's ALWAYS more words to be written. That didn't mean there was anything else being said.
Moron may not have been the most appropriate word, but was a watered down term that would be acceptable. Just calling it as it is and how easily recognized even by most here.
As far as my point… it was proven.
Good luck to you.
Excellent news!
10,000, a number I like.
My favorite part:
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history
I appreciate NJCoin, JMLanzaf, and others that aren’t afraid to tussle keeping this thread alive!
‘’making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history’’
The spouse series with sub-2000 mintages all but forgotten. lol. $5 modern Commems now sub-2,000 mintage forgotten as well. The burnished gold series with mintages nearly half this amount all but forgotten. The 2006 Rev Pr Gold worth little over melt with the same sub-10,000 mintage. The 10k mintage saved these coins from falling to close to melt quickly and will keep the $5,000 selling prices for 70 grade fancy label coins status quo for a while. But, the handwriting is on the wall- the Mint can only sell sub-15,000 mintage gold coins at these overpriced levels and watch for low mintage gold new releases falling through the cracks, left and right.
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin.
as> @wondercoin said:
Mitch, obviously, there was a glitch which caused two little words to be omitted from the Mint’s statement regarding the coin’s mintage.
Instead of ‘’making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history’’, the statement was meant to be ‘’making it one of the lowest most recent mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.” 😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Or….
“making it one of the lowest most recent mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history other than the 2024 Harriet Tubman gold coins at 1/5 the mintage.” 😉
We should all have one melted in the new year...
95+% of us were also proven to be correct....WITHOUT calling anyone names.
Happy Holidays to you and yours...
Excellent, astute observation. Thanks for pointing it out! 😀
In hindsight, that statement turns out to have been incorrect. Not unlike some recent published statements from the Mint and Coin World. Unlike them, however, I am publicly apologizing for the incorrect statement and committing to edit it out from my prior post.
And, here's a pro tip for you -- responding to any of my posts is not the clearest path to getting me to "give it a rest." 😀
You should do the same. It's not yet 2025 or 2026.
You are now hanging your hat, and reputation, on the statements of someone who has been doing nothing but making misstatements since the silver medal was released. Good luck with that. I'm sticking by my prediction, because the alternative makes no economic sense for the Mint.
Just thought I’d try. Nothing else has worked.
I’d be stunned if there were any path to get you to “give it a rest”.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Ignoring me, as opposed to refusing me the last word, would possibly be a start. Please note that I never ask anyone to refrain from posting, or from responding to me. Anyone who would be stunned if there was a path to me giving it a rest probably shouldn't waste time or effort trying to get me to do so. Including the folks "liking" your post. 😀
It would be a start to nowhere. I tried once to get you to give it a rest and that was all it took to realize it was futile.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Respectfully, you reply to people who aren't directly addressing you. I'm not sure you could call that "refusing me the last word".
Which is fine. It's futile, so no reason to make a post calling for it, no?
I can still remember that enthusiastic Mint rep at the Baltimore Coin Expo on November 15th(day after sale) claiming "we sold all 17,500 coins!" Hopefully Mr. Michael White will tell the coin buying public the whole truth and nothing but the truth about the FH Au coins from the launch to the instant 'sell-out!'
Kinda regret selling mine now! It’s a winner for sure
Perhaps. In all fairness, I did say "possibly be a start," not "definitely would achieve the result someone seeks." Directly addressing me, indirectly addressing me, not addressing me at all. What's the difference if they are saying something I want to address myself?
All I'm saying is that publicly calling me out to give anything a rest is probably less likely to get me to give anything a rest than just ignoring anything I post that anyone finds, redundant, annoying, etc. I will note that, while my posts admittedly tend to be long-winded, I VERY rarely actually start a thread. 99.9% of my posts are responses to something someone else says.
The two most sought after high relief gold coins from the modern Mint and just consider the mintages.
The total mintage of the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) Double Eagle gold coin was 114,427.
The total mintage of the 2024 Flowing Hair high relief gold coin is currently 9,935.
It appears you have a 'reactive' personality!
True that. I make my points, and then feel compelled to defend them when people disagree.
But, again, I never start any of this. The issue with anyone who becomes annoyed is that they want to tell me I'm wrong without having to deal with me responding. Over and over and over.
Because, seemingly, I am never allowed to have the last word. Directly, indirectly, whatever.
I'm never right. Louis Golino reported that Michael White said that only 10K coins were made, after previously saying the entire authorized mintage (17,500) was made, with no explanation for the discrepancy.
So that's the final word, and no more will ever be sold. Case closed. Until more are later sold, and Michael White comes back and says, yeah, more were sold. Same with ABPP limits, authorized mintage versus actual mintage, etc.
They say what they say. It either means something or it doesn't. Right now, it doesn't.
Having people plan for a mintage of 17.5K, after they announce 17.5K were made, and then missing out when it turns out only 10K were ever made, is a big deal. 75% difference. The US Mint is not immune from market forces that impact all world mints. Many played games like this with their lucrative numismatic programs, and found demand dry up over time as collectors got tired being repeatedly jerked around.
I wish them lots of luck directing disproportionate shares of desirable new issues to ABPP participants, far beyond announced limits, not being transparent about it, pulling the rug out from people by not making the announced maximum of high demand items, etc. People will get tired, as they always do. The market reaction to the $15 per coin increase in the Morgan and Peace Dollars this year is just one example.
Kinda hard to defend them when they’re proven wrong so often
I called Michael White on the phone (202) 354-7222 Dec 2nd early in the morning and asked how many were really minted and if these were sold out. Now I see he did answer my query. Not sure how many others also called, but it appears the words discussing authorized maximum mintage is not as definitive as some suggested. They authorized 17,500, and then they only authorized 10,000. LOL
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Or this…
Three of the most sought after gold coins from the modern Mint and just consider the mintages.
The total mintage of the 2009 Ultra High Relief (UHR) Double Eagle gold coin was 114,427. After (15) years, the coin is worth about $200 - $250 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2006-W Reverse Proof $50 Gold coin was around 9,998. After (18) years, the coin is worth about $500 - $600 over spot.
The total mintage of the 2024 Flowing Hair high relief gold coin is currently 9,935. After a few weeks, it is currently worth about $1,250 - $1,500 over spot.
Wondercoin
This is all well and good, but why not be transparent about they were going to do up front, if they are finally listening to collector concerns about retaining value in the future?
In this case, I have been saying from the beginning that 12.5K would be the right number, based on the American Liberty High Relief Gold series. And that 17.5K was aggressive at a $1K+ premium to spot. And that it would not likely sell out at all, or if, so, not for days or weeks after release.
A 4 minute sell out made me confess I was wrong. Followed by the disclosure that they only made 10K available for sale. I'm still not sure more won't be coming later, in another product.
But, if 10K really is all that there is ever going to be, why not let people know ahead of time? All they accomplished was damaging their credibility, and angering people who passed at 17.5K but would have jumped in at 10K.
For what purpose, other than maybe to benefit ABPP buyers with a disproportionate share of what was destined from the very beginning to be an unexpectedly low mintage? Not exactly a formula for making friends and influencing people long term, since without engaged end users who don't feel as though they are being played, these are all nothing more than bullion.
how's jackie robinson doing?
As my beloved late father would tell me over and over, "Never regret it when you sold and made a profit!"
Nice job and I am glad you are happy with your decision! I am counting down the days for our Shad seasonal run to begin in March! Coins are fun but nothing beats the relaxation and comraderie of fishing!🎣🎣🎣
Never gonna happen.... you can count on him rambling on more than you can count on the Mint!!🤣😂
You’re happy you didn’t buy this coin or put another way glad you didn’t make an easy $600 before you went fishing. Wrong decision own it.
there are a lot of low mintage classic gold commems that are doing well
You are one of the few...maybe you should volunteer to be President of the NJ/JM Debate Team Ad Nauseam Club!😉
To be fair - most of these lower mintage modern golds that have a premium to spot when they are released get swallowed up when spot gold rises quickly, the premium is smaller and smaller.
The 2006-W RP $50 in PCGS FS 70 was selling at $4000 at $1500 gold. The coin hasnt moved from that price point in many years, now that gold is $2700 - the coin sells for $4200. Premium is being eroded.
As for the modern First Spouses which have some ultra low mintages, the problem there is demand. Most people dont like them and never did.
I waited for the confirmation of what I suspected all along. 10,000 were produced.
I suspect the wide distribution of these gold coins and once the dealers supplies are sold off and in collectors hands - this coin should perform as well or better than the "Bucking Horse" American Liberty High Relief. It has some legs.
It is a beautiful coin in hand. Very nice.
Interesting...
Some are still arguing, even today mind you, that "authorized mintage", and "mintage limit" mean the same thing....
Lololol
michael white was wrong on one of the two. which one?
Neither.
They do. Somewhere in these threads i posted Mint statements proving it.
It's fairly easy to find then if you want. The fact that Mr. White changed or clarified his story doesn't change the meaning. Authorization refers to creation of the coin offering, either by Congress or the Mint. It has never meant a work order sent to the presses. If it did, the "authorized mintage" for things like ASE's would have dozens of different values.
https://www.coinworld.com/voices/gerald-tebben/numbers_are_critical.html
Which clearly states:
Please find ANY other usage of the term.
Please find ANY evidence for your claim that it has EVER been used to mean something else.
is the change due to authoritarianism?
https://readingroom.money.org/did-the-flowing-hair-halves-sell-out/
The Mint even uses the term with respect to this issue with 17,500 and 75,000 referred to as the authorized mintage.