When will we know the true Mintage for this coin? Does the Mint have to report this at years end? So many questions and so few answers! Sure looks like they only made around 10k.
For numismatic products, the final mintage is often not known for years. They are all selling items dirtying from 2017 and 2018. The mintages will not be known until sell out or termination of sales.
In this case, at some point we'll find out if they are going to sell any additional coins and how many. But it is not unusual for it to take time.
True. But normally, this is because they cannot sell what they have made. Not because they intentionally chose to hold items back for sale at a later date, in another product, as appears to be the case here.
For that reason, I get why people are being skeptical. OTOH, I, like Charlie Brown with Lucy and the football, choose to believe that Coin World's reporting is accurate, and that the Mint spokesperson said what he said and meant it. Which means 7500 gold coins were minted and are sitting in a warehouse awaiting a future release, likely in another product at another time, paired with other gold coins.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Be careful who you call a moron. You very well might be eating those words in 2025 or 2026.
When will we know the true Mintage for this coin? Does the Mint have to report this at years end? So many questions and so few answers! Sure looks like they only made around 10k.
We already know. People just don't want to accept it because the Mint is not being totally transparent and announcing precisely what it is that they are doing. But it's pretty obvious if you know how to add and subtract.
The Mintage Limit is published as 17,500, and a Mint spokesperson stated to Coin World that they minted the entire authorized mintage. The Product Limit is now published as 10,000, and the latest sales report that you posted states that they sold 9,978.
What don't you understand? Sure looks to me like they made, and held back, 7,500 for sale in another product at a future date.
When will we know the true Mintage for this coin? Does the Mint have to report this at years end? So many questions and so few answers! Sure looks like they only made around 10k.
We already know. People just don't want to accept it because the Mint is not being totally transparent and announcing precisely what it is that they are doing. But it's pretty obvious if you know how to add and subtract.
If you believe they made and are holding back 7500 for a later sale date that’s your opinion. Many of us aren’t buying your theory!!!
Clearly. That's precisely why I said "people just don't want to accept it."
@jmlanzaf said:
For numismatic products, the final mintage is often not known for years. They are all selling items dirtying from 2017 and 2018. The mintages will not be known until sell out or termination of sales.
In this case, at some point we'll find out if they are going to sell any additional coins and how many. But it is not unusual for it to take time.
Has the mint ever released a product dated from the previous year? I've been here since 2020 and I've never seen it. Also these products you talk about probably never went unavailable which is why they are still being offered.
They don't "release" in the following year but they will continue to sell things that were already released. Go on there now, you'll find numerous offerings going back 6 or 7 years.
Clearly. That's precisely why I said "people just don't want to accept it."
You have to be the most irrationally confident person I've ever seen. You are more confident in items you clearly have no knowledge of than I am of my own name. I'm frankly kind of jealous.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, I would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, if would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
If you don't think they will, then you don't think the Mint spokesperson told the truth to Coin World when he unequivocally stated that the entire authorized gold mintage had been minted. Because surely they did not make them to melt them down, when they could easily be sold for a $1,000+ premium to spot.
The silver is a trickier question, since they unequivocally stated that they did not make them, and would not be offering them in the future. Due to privy confusion.
You correctly pointed out at the time that would not stop them from issuing them at a future date in another product. Given what they later did in not offering for sale the maximum gold mintage, in spite of overwhelming demand and a 4 minute sell out of what they did offer, it really looks like your initial speculation was prescient. So why are you backing away from it now?
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, if would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
If you don't think they will, then you don't think the Mint spokesperson told the truth to Coin World when he unequivocally stated that the entire authorized mintage had been minted. Because surely they did not make them to melt them down, when they could easily be sold for a $1,000+ premium to spot.
I think that he may have been mistaken or possibly misquoted.
As I said, if you consider all my words, I don't rule out the possibility of them selling more. I just don't think it's likely for a number of reasons.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, if would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
If you don't think they will, then you don't think the Mint spokesperson told the truth to Coin World when he unequivocally stated that the entire authorized mintage had been minted. Because surely they did not make them to melt them down, when they could easily be sold for a $1,000+ premium to spot.
I think that he may have been mistaken or possibly misquoted.
As I said, if you consider all my words, I don't rule out the possibility of them selling more. I just don't think it's likely for a number of reasons.t
I just edited my prior post. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I'm particularly interested in the reasons you think the Mint statement was inaccurate, right after what they did with the silver medals. Because the two actions, taken together, are entirely consistent with them building a future set of all related items, in both gold and silver.
Mistake is always a possibility, but highly unlikely when it is in the form of a written e-mail, as here. For the same reason, a misquote would be impossible.
"U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved." Despite what some members here think is a Rorschach test, there really is nothing left to the imagination in that quote.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, if would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
If you don't think they will, then you don't think the Mint spokesperson told the truth to Coin World when he unequivocally stated that the entire authorized mintage had been minted. Because surely they did not make them to melt them down, when they could easily be sold for a $1,000+ premium to spot.
I think that he may have been mistaken or possibly misquoted.
As I said, if you consider all my words, I don't rule out the possibility of them selling more. I just don't think it's likely for a number of reasons.
I just edited my prior post. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I'm particularly interested in the reasons you think the Mint statement was inaccurate, right after what they did with the silver medals. Because the two actions, taken together, are entirely consistent with them building a future set of all related items, in both gold and silver.
I'm not backing away from it. It was and is possible. This is especially true of the silver medal which is when I had made my "prescient" comment. The date is the anniversary date. They have a long history of selling medals with anniversary/commemorative dates rather than the date of issue. They still have 1789 on the Mint medal itself, for example.
The gold is a different matter.
The reasons I think it is unlikely:
1. They have never announced a coin product (not medal) in a later year. It is December 4th, after all.
2. If they had withheld 7,500 gold coins for another product, it would have been an intentional choice made before the release. Yet, they did not adjust the product limit at that time nor announce a new product even now.
Again, I wouldn't call it impossible - even if someone wants to call me a moron - but it would be very unusual behavior.
@Liquidated said:
CoinWorld had sloppy reporting and this was widely discussed weeks ago. Anyone that thinks the mint will slip another 7500 gold FH out by the end of the year is not that bright . Anyone that thanks the mint is holding product for 2025 or even 2026 is a moron.
Many of the conspiracy theorist insist on getting last word. Does not make them correct, but rather continued illustration of their lack of awareness.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, if would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
If you don't think they will, then you don't think the Mint spokesperson told the truth to Coin World when he unequivocally stated that the entire authorized mintage had been minted. Because surely they did not make them to melt them down, when they could easily be sold for a $1,000+ premium to spot.
I think that he may have been mistaken or possibly misquoted.
As I said, if you consider all my words, I don't rule out the possibility of them selling more. I just don't think it's likely for a number of reasons.
I just edited my prior post. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I'm particularly interested in the reasons you think the Mint statement was inaccurate, right after what they did with the silver medals. Because the two actions, taken together, are entirely consistent with them building a future set of all related items, in both gold and silver.
I'm not backing away from it. It was and is possible. This is especially true of the silver medal which is when I had made my "prescient" comment. The date is the anniversary date. They have a long history of selling medals with anniversary/commemorative dates rather than the date of issue. They still have 1789 on the Mint medal itself, for example.
The gold is a different matter.
The reasons I think it is unlikely:
1. They have never announced a coin product (not medal) in a later year. It is December 4th, after all.
2. If they had withheld 7,500 gold coins for another product, it would have been an intentional choice made before the release. Yet, they did not adjust the product limit at that time nor announce a new product even now.
Again, I wouldn't call it impossible - even if someone wants to call me a moron - but it would be very unusual behavior.
You and I are 99% in agreement here. It IS unusual, and extremely opaque. Which is precisely what is provoking the uproar.
I honestly don't think a new product is going to be announced until 2026, when the last items in the series are released. At that point, I think they are going to give people an opportunity to obtain a special limited edition product containing all the coins in the series, which will include the 2024s.
Honestly no other reason to hold back on items they could easily sell at huge premiums. Their explanation regarding the silver privys made no sense at the time, since they whole point behind running the lottery was to sell them at a huge markup. They sold 50K. They could have easily sold 100K, given each package contained a free lottery ticket.
The gold is even crazier, since it didn't have a privy lottery, and sold out in 4 minutes. I always thought 17.5K was aggressive at a $1,000+ premium, and it looks like I was wrong. But, if they weren't holding them back for future release, and even if they haven't yet made them, why on earth would they reduce the Product Limit, but not the Mintage Limit, and refuse to make and sell the additional 7.5K right now?
That said, they did what they did with the silver, followed by this a month later. I thought you were wrong when you said what you said with the silver, but what they did with the gold put it into focus and caused me to change my mind.
The silver is up in the air, because they can make them at any time. But the gold has to be made in 2024. Which is why it is in writing, in Coin World, that they did just that, to eliminate people screaming in the future that 7500 more coins came out of nowhere.
If they are going to release 25K silver medals in the future, likely in a set with other related silver medals, why wouldn't they do the same with gold? Everyone will have their aha moment, and hopefully give me a little credit, the next time a product in this series is released, and the Product Limit is 25K/7.5K below the Mintage Limit. After what happened here, it is inconceivable that the Mint will not be more transparent in the future with respect to letting people know what to expect up front.
The reason I think there could possibly be a mistake or confusion about the mints wording is because the quotes we keep seeing are coming from coin world. It’s like the old telephone game. The further away it gets from the one who knows, or the more people that relay the message, the more chance of a misunderstanding. I would like to see a statement from the mint, not a statement from coin world about what they’ve been told.
@ProofCollection said:
Why does authorized mintage necessarily reference the stated max for the product? Maybe the mint director only authorized 10k of the mintage to be produced and that's what he meant?
You keep ASSuming things.
Please refrain from partially capitalizing assuming. This back and forth with NJ is getting old and you both have been reported to the Mods for repeatedly violating Forum rule #1
Posts must not contain inappropriate language in the form of cuss words, name-calling, sexual suggestion etc.
The $22,000 and $26,000 bids for coins #4 and #5 are already higher than I think is indicative for future value. These bidders haven't even got to the automated "you are outbid" buttons that will show up during the live auction Dec 12th getting them to keep hitting the "bid" the next increment, which also get larger with the price.
If the bids for more of these stay at that level, I am out of the market entirely, as it seems like flowing hair fever is spreading. I would rather have 10 double eagles in MS64, than a modern FH privy for $28,000.
@Goldminers said:
The $22,000 and $26,000 bids for coins #4 and #5 are already higher than I think is indicative for future value. These bidders haven't even got to the automated "you are outbid" buttons that will show up during the live auction Dec 12th getting them to keep hitting the "bid" the next increment, which also get larger with the price.
If the bids for more of these stay at that level, I am out of the market entirely, as it seems like flowing hair fever is spreading. I would rather have 10 double eagles in MS64, than a modern FH privy for $28,000.
Then you are going to be out of the market entirely, as I've been trying to tell anyone willing to listen from the very beginning.
There are only ever going to be 230 of these, and they are being marketed by an international auction house to a worldwide audience. They are not meant for people on this forum looking for value. Or for a retail arbitrage.
They will be sold to 230 people willing to pay the price to obtain something very few will ever own, or for resale to a curated list of customers. Unlike regular Mint offerings, where many of us, through experience, know what is going to be hot, and are able to take advantage of what are pretty clear opportunities to buy from the Mint at below what we have reasonable expectations to be true market, here the true market is going to be established real time. With no one having an opportunity to buy below it.
Anyone comparing this to any modern issue ever released before, with mintages 8x, 150x, whatever higher, and then rationalizing why these will sell for less, is going to be very shocked next week. The only thing more painful for them about being wrong is going to be the acknowledgment that I got this one right.
@Goldminers said:
The $22,000 and $26,000 bids for coins #4 and #5 are already higher than I think is indicative for future value. These bidders haven't even got to the automated "you are outbid" buttons that will show up during the live auction Dec 12th getting them to keep hitting the "bid" the next increment, which also get larger with the price.
If the bids for more of these stay at that level, I am out of the market entirely, as it seems like flowing hair fever is spreading. I would rather have 10 double eagles in MS64, than a modern FH privy for $28,000.
Then you are going to be out of the market entirely, as I've been trying to tell anyone willing to listen from the very beginning.
There are only ever going to be 230 of these, and they are being marketed by an international auction house to a worldwide audience. They are not meant for people on this forum looking for value. Or for a retail arbitrage.
They will be sold to 230 people willing to pay the price to obtain something very few will ever own, or for resale to a curated list of customers. Unlike regular Mint offerings, where many of us, through experience, know what is going to be hot, and are able to take advantage of what are pretty clear opportunities to buy from the Mint at below what we have reasonable expectations to be true market, here the true market is going to be established real time. With no one having an opportunity to buy below it.
Anyone comparing this to any modern issue ever released before, with mintages 8x, 150x, whatever higher, and then rationalizing why these will sell for less, is going to be very shocked next week. The only thing more painful for them about being wrong is going to be the acknowledgment that I got this one right.
@Goldminers said:
The $22,000 and $26,000 bids for coins #4 and #5 are already higher than I think is indicative for future value. These bidders haven't even got to the automated "you are outbid" buttons that will show up during the live auction Dec 12th getting them to keep hitting the "bid" the next increment, which also get larger with the price.
If the bids for more of these stay at that level, I am out of the market entirely, as it seems like flowing hair fever is spreading. I would rather have 10 double eagles in MS64, than a modern FH privy for $28,000.
Then you are going to be out of the market entirely, as I've been trying to tell anyone willing to listen from the very beginning.
There are only ever going to be 230 of these, and they are being marketed by an international auction house to a worldwide audience. They are not meant for people on this forum looking for value. Or for a retail arbitrage.
They will be sold to 230 people willing to pay the price to obtain something very few will ever own, or for resale to a curated list of customers. Unlike regular Mint offerings, where many of us, through experience, know what is going to be hot, and are able to take advantage of what are pretty clear opportunities to buy from the Mint at below what we have reasonable expectations to be true market, here the true market is going to be established real time. With no one having an opportunity to buy below it.
Anyone comparing this to any modern issue ever released before, with mintages 8x, 150x, whatever higher, and then rationalizing why these will sell for less, is going to be very shocked next week. The only thing more painful for them about being wrong is going to be the acknowledgment that I got this one right.
@ProofCollection said:
Why does authorized mintage necessarily reference the stated max for the product? Maybe the mint director only authorized 10k of the mintage to be produced and that's what he meant?
You keep ASSuming things.
Please refrain from partially capitalizing assuming. This back and forth with NJ is getting old and you both have been reported to the Mods for repeatedly violating Forum rule #1
Posts must not contain inappropriate language in the form of cuss words, name-calling, sexual suggestion etc.
Why not just utilize the Ignore function like you claim to be doing, rather than obsessing on a back and forth that is getting old, and then frustrating yourself over your inability to moderate the forum yourself?
We have all year, or maybe two years, to read the same two totally different answers, over and over on this forum.
So far, the Mint spokesman, Michael White, has not answered my queries. Until I see it directly in writing from official documentation from the US Mint, not a coin magazine, or hear it on a live phone call, I still believe there is a chance only 10,000 were minted.
@Goldminers said:
Did they actually mint 10,000 or 17,500?
We have all year, or maybe two years, to read the same two totally different answers, over and over on this forum.
So far, the Mint spokesman, Michael White, has not answered my queries. Until I see it directly in writing from official documentation from the US Mint, not a coin magazine, or hear it on a live phone call, I still believe there is a chance only 10,000 were minted.
You can believe whatever you want. I seriously doubt Michael White is losing any sleep over it.
You won't have to wait two years. As soon as the next related product is released, we'll all either see a Product Limit 7500 below a Mintage Limit, or we won't.
Well before the end of 2026, there will either be a set of gold coins with a Product Limit of 7500 that contains the 2024 FH High Relief Gold Dollar, or there won't be. Until then, it's unreasonable to expect Michael White to answer your queries and give you information the Mint is not yet ready to release to the public. So please don't hold your breath.
They know what Coin World published. They know what they posted on their website.
So far, they have chosen not to supplement, explain or retract. You can believe whatever you want, but when the missing 7500 drop, you won't be able to say you weren't warned.
2016 Canada 5 Dollar 1-oz Silver Superman Coin
This coin is made of 0.9999 fine silver and features the Superman S-Shield design on the reverse. The obverse features the 2003 effigy of Queen Elizabeth II. The coin also includes a micro-engraved maple leaf and the number 16 to indicate the year of issue.
I sold mine because of a flaw. I see flaws on most of the gold 70 privy coins at Stacks, too. I guess I should have sent mine in for grading like you did. Congratulations.
Even if my coin graded 70 with the flaw that wouldn’t be a keeper for me, either.
I saw it with many of the PCGS 70 Mercury gold dimes.
I didn’t like a palladium Eagle I got from a big dealer, sent it back, and they replaced it with another 70 without the rim flaw.
Weird deal. Judging by how quickly the first 10k sold out, it seemingly makes no sense to hold back another 7500 pieces...unless you intend to do something else with them in another set, secondary release, etc. Or, more simply, they weren't struck. Makes very little sense but hey, it's the US Mint.
Remember back in 2016 when they magically came up with another roughly 9000 gold Mercs after they had listed them as sold out (and after folks had been paying hefty premiums to get them in the aftermarket)?
@MsMorrisine said:
look at proof 70 ase and you'll see a lot more imperfections than those
tat one behind the eagle's head looks like it could be a minor strike through
With the coin in hand you really don't see any of those distractions. I'm just pointing out the major flaw(s). You have to look hard at the coin to see the big one. I never saw it until I took a photo of the raw coin and looked at the image blown up.
There are also several gold dust particles along the bottom of the reverse under the eagle and between the R and I, and by the S in States. This seems to be quite common on these coins with the edge lettering and also does not seem to affect the grade.
??? I guess. Looks to me like they are just echoing what we have been going back and forth about.
The Mint said 17.5K have been minted, but they only released 10K so far. So PCGS is saying nothing until the number is finalized. Which might not be until sometime in 2026.
PCGS certainly does not want to publish 10K, and then have to go back later and revise it upward by 75%. OTOH, they don't want to say 17.5K when everyone knows only 10K have been released, with no announced plan to release more at the present time. So, yeah, too soon!
Does anyone have Michael White's contact information? It seems to me that many, many collectors should be asking him directly about the decision to limit production. The coin is a historical design and there's no reason given for the decisions that were apparently made.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@jmski52 said:
Does anyone have Michael White's contact information? It seems to me that many, many collectors should be asking him directly about the decision to limit production. The coin is a historical design and there's no reason given for the decisions that were apparently made.
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
Comments
2025 schedule is out, check out 25DA and 25DB
True. But normally, this is because they cannot sell what they have made. Not because they intentionally chose to hold items back for sale at a later date, in another product, as appears to be the case here.
For that reason, I get why people are being skeptical. OTOH, I, like Charlie Brown with Lucy and the football, choose to believe that Coin World's reporting is accurate, and that the Mint spokesperson said what he said and meant it. Which means 7500 gold coins were minted and are sitting in a warehouse awaiting a future release, likely in another product at another time, paired with other gold coins.
Be careful who you call a moron. You very well might be eating those words in 2025 or 2026.
Clearly. That's precisely why I said "people just don't want to accept it."
How about Superman and Batman in 1/2oz. gold.
They don't "release" in the following year but they will continue to sell things that were already released. Go on there now, you'll find numerous offerings going back 6 or 7 years.
You have to be the most irrationally confident person I've ever seen. You are more confident in items you clearly have no knowledge of than I am of my own name. I'm frankly kind of jealous.
"2025 schedule is out, check out 25DA and 25DB"
Standard, and on schedule "American Liberty" coins & medals released every other year.
Only a couple people have stated that they will. I've stated that they COULD but I dont think they will. In the past, I would have definitely said they will not. However, they have behaved a bit unusually this year.
You have a nasty habit of calling people names. It really isn't necessary, not does it help make your point.
If you don't think they will, then you don't think the Mint spokesperson told the truth to Coin World when he unequivocally stated that the entire authorized gold mintage had been minted. Because surely they did not make them to melt them down, when they could easily be sold for a $1,000+ premium to spot.
The silver is a trickier question, since they unequivocally stated that they did not make them, and would not be offering them in the future. Due to privy confusion.
You correctly pointed out at the time that would not stop them from issuing them at a future date in another product. Given what they later did in not offering for sale the maximum gold mintage, in spite of overwhelming demand and a 4 minute sell out of what they did offer, it really looks like your initial speculation was prescient. So why are you backing away from it now?
I think that he may have been mistaken or possibly misquoted.
As I said, if you consider all my words, I don't rule out the possibility of them selling more. I just don't think it's likely for a number of reasons.
I just edited my prior post. Please take a look and let me know what you think. I'm particularly interested in the reasons you think the Mint statement was inaccurate, right after what they did with the silver medals. Because the two actions, taken together, are entirely consistent with them building a future set of all related items, in both gold and silver.
Mistake is always a possibility, but highly unlikely when it is in the form of a written e-mail, as here. For the same reason, a misquote would be impossible.
"U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved." Despite what some members here think is a Rorschach test, there really is nothing left to the imagination in that quote.
Here we go, round 2 with CW/USM statement parsing & speculation. Or is it round 3 now?!
Next it'll be round 2-3 for FHG Privy hammer predictions...
Cool, the Gold Bat and Superman, might go well with this:
I'm not backing away from it. It was and is possible. This is especially true of the silver medal which is when I had made my "prescient" comment. The date is the anniversary date. They have a long history of selling medals with anniversary/commemorative dates rather than the date of issue. They still have 1789 on the Mint medal itself, for example.
The gold is a different matter.
The reasons I think it is unlikely:
1. They have never announced a coin product (not medal) in a later year. It is December 4th, after all.
2. If they had withheld 7,500 gold coins for another product, it would have been an intentional choice made before the release. Yet, they did not adjust the product limit at that time nor announce a new product even now.
Again, I wouldn't call it impossible - even if someone wants to call me a moron - but it would be very unusual behavior.
Top five privy lots compared by date.
Not too much drama as of yet.
I'm sure all hell is going to breakout in the hours before noon EST on the 12th of December.
November 24, 2024.
December 4, 2024
You and I are 99% in agreement here. It IS unusual, and extremely opaque. Which is precisely what is provoking the uproar.
I honestly don't think a new product is going to be announced until 2026, when the last items in the series are released. At that point, I think they are going to give people an opportunity to obtain a special limited edition product containing all the coins in the series, which will include the 2024s.
Honestly no other reason to hold back on items they could easily sell at huge premiums. Their explanation regarding the silver privys made no sense at the time, since they whole point behind running the lottery was to sell them at a huge markup. They sold 50K. They could have easily sold 100K, given each package contained a free lottery ticket.
The gold is even crazier, since it didn't have a privy lottery, and sold out in 4 minutes. I always thought 17.5K was aggressive at a $1,000+ premium, and it looks like I was wrong. But, if they weren't holding them back for future release, and even if they haven't yet made them, why on earth would they reduce the Product Limit, but not the Mintage Limit, and refuse to make and sell the additional 7.5K right now?
That said, they did what they did with the silver, followed by this a month later. I thought you were wrong when you said what you said with the silver, but what they did with the gold put it into focus and caused me to change my mind.
The silver is up in the air, because they can make them at any time. But the gold has to be made in 2024. Which is why it is in writing, in Coin World, that they did just that, to eliminate people screaming in the future that 7500 more coins came out of nowhere.
If they are going to release 25K silver medals in the future, likely in a set with other related silver medals, why wouldn't they do the same with gold? Everyone will have their aha moment, and hopefully give me a little credit, the next time a product in this series is released, and the Product Limit is 25K/7.5K below the Mintage Limit. After what happened here, it is inconceivable that the Mint will not be more transparent in the future with respect to letting people know what to expect up front.
The reason I think there could possibly be a mistake or confusion about the mints wording is because the quotes we keep seeing are coming from coin world. It’s like the old telephone game. The further away it gets from the one who knows, or the more people that relay the message, the more chance of a misunderstanding. I would like to see a statement from the mint, not a statement from coin world about what they’ve been told.
Please refrain from partially capitalizing assuming. This back and forth with NJ is getting old and you both have been reported to the Mods for repeatedly violating Forum rule #1
Posts must not contain inappropriate language in the form of cuss words, name-calling, sexual suggestion etc.
The $22,000 and $26,000 bids for coins #4 and #5 are already higher than I think is indicative for future value. These bidders haven't even got to the automated "you are outbid" buttons that will show up during the live auction Dec 12th getting them to keep hitting the "bid" the next increment, which also get larger with the price.
If the bids for more of these stay at that level, I am out of the market entirely, as it seems like flowing hair fever is spreading. I would rather have 10 double eagles in MS64, than a modern FH privy for $28,000.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Then you are going to be out of the market entirely, as I've been trying to tell anyone willing to listen from the very beginning.
There are only ever going to be 230 of these, and they are being marketed by an international auction house to a worldwide audience. They are not meant for people on this forum looking for value. Or for a retail arbitrage.
They will be sold to 230 people willing to pay the price to obtain something very few will ever own, or for resale to a curated list of customers. Unlike regular Mint offerings, where many of us, through experience, know what is going to be hot, and are able to take advantage of what are pretty clear opportunities to buy from the Mint at below what we have reasonable expectations to be true market, here the true market is going to be established real time. With no one having an opportunity to buy below it.
Anyone comparing this to any modern issue ever released before, with mintages 8x, 150x, whatever higher, and then rationalizing why these will sell for less, is going to be very shocked next week. The only thing more painful for them about being wrong is going to be the acknowledgment that I got this one right.
Thanks for finding something new to post. 🙄
Happy to oblige. 😀
Why not just utilize the Ignore function like you claim to be doing, rather than obsessing on a back and forth that is getting old, and then frustrating yourself over your inability to moderate the forum yourself?
Did they actually mint 10,000 or 17,500?
We have all year, or maybe two years, to read the same two totally different answers, over and over on this forum.
So far, the Mint spokesman, Michael White, has not answered my queries. Until I see it directly in writing from official documentation from the US Mint, not a coin magazine, or hear it on a live phone call, I still believe there is a chance only 10,000 were minted.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
You can believe whatever you want. I seriously doubt Michael White is losing any sleep over it.
You won't have to wait two years. As soon as the next related product is released, we'll all either see a Product Limit 7500 below a Mintage Limit, or we won't.
Well before the end of 2026, there will either be a set of gold coins with a Product Limit of 7500 that contains the 2024 FH High Relief Gold Dollar, or there won't be. Until then, it's unreasonable to expect Michael White to answer your queries and give you information the Mint is not yet ready to release to the public. So please don't hold your breath.
They know what Coin World published. They know what they posted on their website.
So far, they have chosen not to supplement, explain or retract. You can believe whatever you want, but when the missing 7500 drop, you won't be able to say you weren't warned.
What year did they mint this one?
2016 Canada 5 Dollar 1-oz Silver Superman Coin
This coin is made of 0.9999 fine silver and features the Superman S-Shield design on the reverse. The obverse features the 2003 effigy of Queen Elizabeth II. The coin also includes a micro-engraved maple leaf and the number 16 to indicate the year of issue.
That was the year I bought some rolls.
POP Report as of December 5, 2024
8.1% of total non-privy graded PR69DCAM
12.2% of First Strike graded PR69DCAM
Overall, it appears PCGS likes the Mint's striking of the 2024 FH Au coins despite the planchet flaws.
I got my grade last night and was one of those who got a 70 despite the obvious flaw on the reverse.
I will post the images soon, flaw and all. 😊
edited to add: There are still many more coins in process at PCGS and being shipped to PCGS.
I sold mine because of a flaw. I see flaws on most of the gold 70 privy coins at Stacks, too. I guess I should have sent mine in for grading like you did. Congratulations.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Agree, I had a small flaw so sold. It was probably a 70.
Even if my coin graded 70 with the flaw that wouldn’t be a keeper for me, either.
I saw it with many of the PCGS 70 Mercury gold dimes.
I didn’t like a palladium Eagle I got from a big dealer, sent it back, and they replaced it with another 70 without the rim flaw.
Weird deal. Judging by how quickly the first 10k sold out, it seemingly makes no sense to hold back another 7500 pieces...unless you intend to do something else with them in another set, secondary release, etc. Or, more simply, they weren't struck. Makes very little sense but hey, it's the US Mint.
Remember back in 2016 when they magically came up with another roughly 9000 gold Mercs after they had listed them as sold out (and after folks had been paying hefty premiums to get them in the aftermarket)?
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
My FH Au coin graded yesterday PR70DCAM, even with the planchet flaw to the left of the eagle's head on the reverse.
I must admit this flaw is barely visible without a 5x loupe, so it doesn't really distract me.
There is also another tiny tiny flaw on the reverse that is noted on the second and last image.
I have to assume PCGS overlooks minor planchet flaws on Mint proof coins like this one.
I had a gut feeling that PCGS wouldn't let that affect the final grade, as were a few forum members also(thank you).
All images are taken from the high resolution TrueView photography.
look at proof 70 ase and you'll see a lot more imperfections than those
tat one behind the eagle's head loks like it could be a minor strike through
With the coin in hand you really don't see any of those distractions. I'm just pointing out the major flaw(s). You have to look hard at the coin to see the big one. I never saw it until I took a photo of the raw coin and looked at the image blown up.
There are also several gold dust particles along the bottom of the reverse under the eagle and between the R and I, and by the S in States. This seems to be quite common on these coins with the edge lettering and also does not seem to affect the grade.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
@NJCoin ......too soon?
??? I guess. Looks to me like they are just echoing what we have been going back and forth about.
The Mint said 17.5K have been minted, but they only released 10K so far. So PCGS is saying nothing until the number is finalized. Which might not be until sometime in 2026.
PCGS certainly does not want to publish 10K, and then have to go back later and revise it upward by 75%. OTOH, they don't want to say 17.5K when everyone knows only 10K have been released, with no announced plan to release more at the present time. So, yeah, too soon!
How can I not take advantage of this fine offer?
Ahhh - I didnt do the CAC table at the Baltimore Show - I did the special Baltimore label at NGC and got a 70 UCAM.
Nice score - I would be a seller too!!!!
I didnt even pay attention before the last post - you got a fine offer from the seller there - what a deal!!!
Coin #2 and coin #8 graded PR69DCAM are the top contenders @$13k
Pop Report as of December 7, 2024.
10.3% of Non privy total pop graded PR69DCAM
11% of Non privy First Strike coins graded PR69DCAM
19.6% of Privy coins graded PR69DCAM
Does anyone have Michael White's contact information? It seems to me that many, many collectors should be asking him directly about the decision to limit production. The coin is a historical design and there's no reason given for the decisions that were apparently made.
I knew it would happen.
Michael White
@NJCoin .......
ANA, The Reading Room......................
Did the Flowing Hair Dollars Sell Out?
Published December 6, 2024
By Louis Golino
The Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair High-Relief gold dollar, launched on November 14, is arguably the most important coin the United States Mint has produced since the 2009 Ultra High-Relief gold double eagle ($20).
That is because of the 1794 dollar’s history and the impressive way the mint has reimagined the piece with 21st-century technology. It is undoubtedly one of the finest designs of all time, rendered exquisitely in high relief. In addition, the coin is the first laser-engraved piece ever to be struck by the mint.
As anyone who tried to purchase one when they went on sale online knows, they sold out in just four minutes. Many veteran buyers thought it was unlikely that the coining facility would sell the entire mintage of 17,500 for this piece at almost $3,700 so quickly.
In the weeks since, conflicting information has circulated within the numismatic community regarding whether this piece sold out, its actual mintage, and whether the mint will offer any more coins.
In advance of the start of sales, the U.S. Mint told Coin World’s Paul Gilkes that it had struck the full authorized maximum mintage of 17,500. It turns out, however, that they actually did not produce that many.
U.S. Mint Says Coin Is Gone
On December 2, in response to an inquiry for this piece, Michael White at the United States Mint confirmed that the coin has indeed sold out. He explained that while the mint could strike as many as 17,500 of these gold coins, they decided not to exercise that option. Instead, they limited the coin to only 10,000, making it one of the lowest mintage gold coins in U.S. Mint history.
Mr. White could not elaborate on why mint officials made only 10,000 of these trendy coins, adding that it was unrelated to a shortage of gold coin planchets.
The 10,000 coins sold include 2,000 reserved for sale to companies in the mint’s Authorized Bulk Purchase Program (with actual sales of 1,994) and 7,941 that were sold online on November 14 or since then (typically early in the morning), according to an updated figure from the U.S. Mint that Coin News provided on November 19.
The 7,941 figure includes 500 coins sold on November 14 at the Whitman Baltimore Expo. In addition, the first 230 coins struck that feature a “230” privy mark will be sold on December 12 during a Stacks-Bowers auction.
Thus, total sales are about 9,935, which will likely change as orders are reconciled.
Silver Medals
A similar situation occurred with the silver medal, which had the same design as the gold coin. The 49,996 medals were sold online, and 10,000 were reserved for bulk sales. The medal has an authorized mintage of 75,000, but it seems the Mint also opted to make less than that amount of these.
Collectors now know they must purchase gold coins on the secondary market if they want one.
The Reading Room
That settles that. Thank you.
My Carson City Morgan Registry Set
Got my grade last night, PR70DC!