@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which it does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I just received an email from a long-time reputable coin dealer who usually can get these to sell at good pricing, and has been in contact with the mint and with other advanced buyers, and he said he does not even think more than 8,000 were minted. There is a lot of uncertainty about these.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
Waiting to see if additional 7500 were minted is where some people are now. Personally dont feel they were produced despite CoinWorld and verbiage discussed pages ago. I look past that NJGuy. Only saw his comment in someone else's post. That guy ran the Silver FH discussion into the ground. Could care less about batting zero even off a tee. Guy just looks for interaction with anyone and willing to take them over the cliff. Cant help the guy understand despite explaining it all to him. Pretty sad.
As far as myself followed the order numbers and was in ball park of sales reported. Followed the 2024 Gold Buffalo and Eagle proof. Never doubted this would sell out at 17,500 but surprised to see initial sales limited to 10,000.
I followed this since Nov 2023 and even bought a gold eagle to hedge in December. Wanted this badly and all came together with an order 2000 into order window 1 min in along with my hedge trimming off around $400. Never was willing to chance missing this. Feel sorry for anyone that wanted this and willing to pay original asking price but passed because some guy without anything better suggested the mint could never sell 17,500. This is an amazing coin.
7500 sold in 4 mins online… that was a lot of momentum that would have hit 15,000 naturally plus the 2,000 for ABPP and 500 for Baltimore if mint offered the originally proposed 17,500.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
If I am making a mistake now, we'll have to go back to my third grade teacher and figure out where she went wrong in teaching me how to read, write and understand English. OTOH, if am not wrong, you might have to go back to your teachers and do the same.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
Waiting to see if additional 7500 were minted is where some people are now. Personally dont feel they were produced despite CoinWorld and verbiage discussed pages ago. I look past that NJGuy. Only saw his comment in someone else's post. That guy ran the Silver FH discussion into the ground. Could care less about batting zero even off a tee. Guy just looks for interaction with anyone and willing to take them over the cliff. Cant help the guy understand despite explaining it all to him. Pretty sad.
As far as myself followed the order numbers and was in ball park of sales reported. Followed the 2024 Gold Buffalo and Eagle proof. Never doubted this would sell out at 17,500 but surprised to see initial sales limited to 10,000.
I followed this since Nov 2023 and even bought a gold eagle to hedge in December. Wanted this badly and all came together with an order 2000 into order window 1 min in along with my hedge trimming off around $400. Never was willing to chance missing this. Feel sorry for anyone that wanted this and willing to pay original asking price but passed because some guy without anything better suggested the mint could never sell 17,500. This is an amazing coin.
7500 sold in 4 mins online… that was a lot of momentum that would have hit 15,000 naturally plus the 2,000 for ABPP and 500 for Baltimore if mint offered the originally proposed 17,500.
Congratulations!! I never said they couldn't sell 17.5K. Only that they wouldn't in the first 24 hours. And, as it turns out, they didn't, regardless of what you think might have happened had the missing 7.5K actually been offered for sale.
What's your hedge now against another 7.5K hitting the market, likely along with an equivalent number of silver medals? Because that seems to be a real possibility, unless "entire authorized mintage" actually does turn out to mean something other than "mintage limit." And, if it does happen, regardless of how quickly it might sell out, it will do nothing to enhance the value of the coins and medals already in the market.
Congratulations!! I never said they couldn't sell 17.5K. Only that they wouldn't in the first 24 hours. And, as it turns out, they didn't, regardless of what you think might have happened had the missing 7.5K actually been offered for sale.
It sold out in 4 minutes. I think it's time to take a seat on this topic.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
If I am making a mistake now, we'll have to go back to my third grade teacher and figure out where she went wrong in teaching me how to read, write and understand English. OTOH, if am not wrong, you might have to go back to your teachers and do the same.
Lol!!!
So you were that kid sitting in the corner by yourself, believing everything you were told.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
Waiting to see if additional 7500 were minted is where some people are now. Personally dont feel they were produced despite CoinWorld and verbiage discussed pages ago. I look past that NJGuy. Only saw his comment in someone else's post. That guy ran the Silver FH discussion into the ground. Could care less about batting zero even off a tee. Guy just looks for interaction with anyone and willing to take them over the cliff. Cant help the guy understand despite explaining it all to him. Pretty sad.
As far as myself followed the order numbers and was in ball park of sales reported. Followed the 2024 Gold Buffalo and Eagle proof. Never doubted this would sell out at 17,500 but surprised to see initial sales limited to 10,000.
I followed this since Nov 2023 and even bought a gold eagle to hedge in December. Wanted this badly and all came together with an order 2000 into order window 1 min in along with my hedge trimming off around $400. Never was willing to chance missing this. Feel sorry for anyone that wanted this and willing to pay original asking price but passed because some guy without anything better suggested the mint could never sell 17,500. This is an amazing coin.
7500 sold in 4 mins online… that was a lot of momentum that would have hit 15,000 naturally plus the 2,000 for ABPP and 500 for Baltimore if mint offered the originally proposed 17,500.
Congratulations!! I never said they couldn't sell 17.5K. Only that they wouldn't in the first 24 hours. And, as it turns out, they didn't, regardless of what you think might have happened had the missing 7.5K actually been offered for sale.
What's your hedge now against another 7.5K hitting the market, likely along with an equivalent number of silver medals? Because that seems to be a real possibility, unless "entire authorized mintage" actually does turn out to mean something other than "mintage limit." And, if it does happen, regardless of how quickly it might sell out, it will do nothing to enhance the value of the coins and medals already in the market.
No idea why I unblocked your response. Wont make mistake again. So here goes.
Hedge offset cost locking me in off lower spot. Not selling therefore secondary market is irrelevant. That means no need to hedge. Bought to own, not to trade.
You seriously think mint held back 25k silver to match up with 7500 gold? I never had Core curriculum so maybe you can explain that math to me. You called for silver medals to hit $70 in secondary market with dealers dumping inventory. You suggested massive returns with people playing a free lottery ticket for a privy. Plus so much more craziness.
Where you failed was recognizing the demand of one of Americas most cherished profiles that is new. It is unique and refreshing vs garbage produced past 15 years.
I like the idea of you on board with the mint holding back product for future release. It makes my 1 of 10k currently known more reassuring.
Look at current high prices. The mint could have sold 75,000/17,500 and original prices would still be held. I know you cant get that, but not my problem. You argued long about original prices and secondary market not supporting them. Now want to talk about additional supply on secondary prices? That does not take reactive carbon chain mathematics to understand.
The mint not selling full limits does not offer you an “out” of nonstop craziness. I envy the people that never read your posts.
@Goldminers said:
I just received an email from a long-time reputable coin dealer who usually can get these to sell at good pricing, and has been in contact with the mint and with other advanced buyers, and he said he does not even think more than 8,000 were minted. There is a lot of uncertainty about these.
We have the sales numbers. It's more than 8000. They sold 7600 1st day with just under 2000 ABPP.
If Macy's can't keep track of $154 million in losses related to small package delivery expenses over 3 years, maybe we shouldn't expect the Mint to publish updated sales numbers on time.
Maybe the bean counters took the entire week off for Thanksgiving. Still, it shouldn't be that hard for them to just explain to their customers how and when they plan to sell the other 7,500.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
@Goldminers said:
If Macy's can't keep track of $154 million in losses related to small package delivery expenses over 3 years, maybe we shouldn't expect the Mint to publish updated sales numbers on time.
Maybe the bean counters took the entire week off for Thanksgiving. Still, it shouldn't be that hard for them to just explain to their customers how and when they plan to sell the other 7,500.
Why is it such a big secret?
So said it's a secret? This coin is small potatoes for the Mint. Maybe they just aren't obsessed with it like you are.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Mine just arrived… WOW! It’s a stunner in hand. At first I was wanting to flip. Now I’m seriously considering grading and keeping. I’m not currently a pcgs member though so would have to rejoin. It looks pretty flawless to my eyes. Only question would be rim above S on reverse.. but it may be as minted and I’ve seen 70s worse. What do y’all think?
Beautiful Coin!
Tough call on the rim, I'd bet the TPG's would let it slide, given the many Privy 70's with more problems than yours?
It looks like a "hanging Chad" on that lower leaf, just above his right wing. But again, not a terrible offence imo.
Tough call...
Good eye, yep, tiny little spot there as well. Anyone else think it has a shot at 70 with those two areas?
@Rick5280 said:
Beautiful Coin!
Tough call on the rim, I'd bet the TPG's would let it slide, given the many Privy 70's with more problems than yours?
It looks like a "hanging Chad" on that lower leaf, just above his right wing. But again, not a terrible offence imo.
Tough call...
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
People who would have bought at 50K, but not 75K, were misled and missed out. Same with 17.5K and 10K.
And, rest assured, those who did buy will scream if and when more hit the market. If they keep this up, they will annoy enough people that it will impact their ability to sell overpriced bullion in the guise of modern collector product.
It is clear the mint is testing the market to see if can make far more money by special auctions and deals with the big buyers.
It is also clear they have no ethics to follow the rules or care for the little collectors. Get ready for many changes !!!!!!
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
I am not "obsessed" with this coin as someone has suggested, just because I want a straight answer from the Mint on their intentions for 7,500 potential coins being issued in some other form to make my $5,200 purchase of a graded PCGS 70DCAM FDOI go down in value. I personally don't like buying a limited-edition product item and then having more show up later.
I bought two of these direct from the Mint and both had damage. One had a surprisingly big gouge scratch on the eagle's neck and the other a tiny scratch or defect in the mirror on the obverse.
I finally decided that to keep my complete modern commemorative set 100%, I would have to buy a graded 70. I was going to buy at Pinehurst, but they upped their prices by several hundred dollars, TWICE, so they must feel these are more limited than even their original expectations, based on the originally marketed 17,500 max mintage.
If you look about ten pages back, you will see I also did not expect a sellout unless the number was closer to 10,000. Then the Mint comes out and says things that imply 17,500 were struck. Yet it seems really only 10,000, or maybe less, were actually available for purchase.
I have made phone calls into the Mint to Michael White, their public representative, to ask for clarification and have not received a call back from the messages I left, as I was promised, yet. This is not a good way to do business, and I agree with @NJCoin this is annoying.
@HATTRICK said:
It is clear the mint is testing the market to see if can make far more money by special auctions and deals with the big buyers.
It is also clear they have no ethics to follow the rules or care for the little collectors. Get ready for many changes !!!!!!
I don't know about that. Certainly the decision to make a coin variety with only 230 mintage is an elite offering that we could argue should not be made/sold, but I can think of no other fairer way to distribute such a prodcut. It certainly wouldn't be fair to just release them at noon on the website and have the world fight for the proverbial golden ticket that will instantly be worth multiples of the mint issue price for the lucky few (bots?) who get in virtual line first.
@Goldminers said:
I am not "obsessed" with this coin as someone has suggested, just because I want a straight answer from the Mint on their intentions for 7,500 potential coins being issued in some other form to make my $5,200 purchase of a graded PCGS 70DCAM FDOI go down in value. I personally don't like buying a limited-edition product item and then having more show up later.
I bought two of these direct from the Mint and both had damage. One had a surprisingly big gouge scratch on the eagle's neck and the other a tiny scratch or defect in the mirror on the obverse.
I finally decided that to keep my complete modern commemorative set 100%, I would have to buy a graded 70. I was going to buy at Pinehurst, but they upped their prices by several hundred dollars, TWICE, so they must feel these are more limited than even their original expectations, based on the originally marketed 17,500 max mintage.
If you look about ten pages back, you will see I also did not expect a sellout unless the number was closer to 10,000. Then the Mint comes out and says things that imply 17,500 were struck. Yet it seems really only 10,000, or maybe less, were actually available for purchase.
I have made phone calls into the Mint to Michael White, their public representative, to ask for clarification and have not received a call back from the messages I left, as I was promised, yet. This is not a good way to do business, and I agree with @NJCoin this is annoying.
Do you prefer "we" to "you"? That's not a criticism. It's just a fact. The Mint does not spend a lot of time thinking about this tiny offering that is a rounding error on their actual production. You are interpreting silence as being more nefarious than that even though it doesn't actually benefit the Mint at all to play coy.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
@Au100 said:
Latest eBay sales ("2024 gold 230" keywords):
274 for sale, 25 sold last 2 days, 96 sold last 7 days
I think your search criteria may be unintentionally reducing your total. I use "2024 Flowing Hair Gold" and it returns 319 active listings. I think some sellers leave out the "230":
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
Again, whatever you say. If you think changing product limits after the fact is "accurate," I can't help you.
The meaning I take is the plain meaning of the words, according to the dictionary that I already have out, and at the ready. If "entire authorized mintage" does not mean every last coin set forth in the mintage limit, then, again, I can't help you.
If you want to parse every single word, debating the meaning of the word "is" to give credence to what the Mint is doing, I also can't help you.
If the mintage limit is nothing more than an arbitrary number that the Mint might or might not manufacture, at its discretion, based on undisclosed criteria, then, whatever it means to you, it means nothing at all to me. And I'm sure to plenty of others as well.
Which is why they go to trouble of disclosing the number in the first place, and generally sticking to it. We are expected to make buying decisions based on it.
Which is impossible if they don't stick to it, assuming there is demand. If you don't think buying decisions can be changed based on whether a given mintage for a given product at a given price is 10K versus 17.5K, or 50K versus 75K, again, I can't help you.
I'm not sure why they are doing what they are doing now, but they are not doing themselves any favors by not being straight with the people who ultimately give value to whatever they produce.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
Again, whatever you say. If you think changing product limits after the fact is "accurate," I can't help you.
The meaning I take is the plain meaning of the words, according to the dictionary that I already have out, and at the ready. If "entire authorized mintage" does not mean every last coin set forth in the mintage limit, then, again, I can't help you.
If you want to parse every single word, debating the meaning of the word "is" to give credence to what the Mint is doing, I also can't help you.
If the mintage limit is nothing more than an arbitrary number that the Mint might or might not manufacture, at its discretion, based on undisclosed criteria, then, whatever it means to you, it means nothing at all to me. And I'm sure to plenty of others as well.
Which is why they go to trouble of disclosing the number in the first place, and generally sticking to it. We are expected to make buying decisions based on it.
Which is impossible if they don't stick to it, assuming there is demand. If you don't think buying decisions can be changed based on whether a given mintage for a given product at a given price is 10K versus 17.5K, or 50K versus 75K, again, I can't help you.
I'm not sure why they are doing what they are doing now, but they are not doing themselves any favors by not being straight with the people who ultimately give value to whatever they produce.
I hope you don't work in specifications or contracts. It's pretty clear that you don't.
@Rick5280 said:
"mintage limit' = Apple. Means nothing to me.
"entire authorized mintage" = Orange. Means something to me.
Why wouldn't "mintage limit" just mean "we don't make any more than x?" To my knowledge, the mint has never violated that.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
Again, whatever you say. If you think changing product limits after the fact is "accurate," I can't help you.
The meaning I take is the plain meaning of the words, according to the dictionary that I already have out, and at the ready. If "entire authorized mintage" does not mean every last coin set forth in the mintage limit, then, again, I can't help you.
If you want to parse every single word, debating the meaning of the word "is" to give credence to what the Mint is doing, I also can't help you.
If the mintage limit is nothing more than an arbitrary number that the Mint might or might not manufacture, at its discretion, based on undisclosed criteria, then, whatever it means to you, it means nothing at all to me. And I'm sure to plenty of others as well.
Which is why they go to trouble of disclosing the number in the first place, and generally sticking to it. We are expected to make buying decisions based on it.
Which is impossible if they don't stick to it, assuming there is demand. If you don't think buying decisions can be changed based on whether a given mintage for a given product at a given price is 10K versus 17.5K, or 50K versus 75K, again, I can't help you.
I'm not sure why they are doing what they are doing now, but they are not doing themselves any favors by not being straight with the people who ultimately give value to whatever they produce.
I hope you don't work in specifications or contracts. It's pretty clear that you don't.
@Rick5280 said:
"mintage limit' = Apple. Means nothing to me.
"entire authorized mintage" = Orange. Means something to me.
Why wouldn't "mintage limit" just mean "we don't make any more than x?" To my knowledge, the mint has never violated that.
Because it means absolutely nothing if it doesn't mean they are willing to make that many if there is demand. In the real world, limiting sales to an amount below the limit would mean that the limit was not really the limit.
That's why. The Mint "violated" the limit in this case by belatedly, after the fact, disclosing a product limit far below the mintage limit after first and second day sell outs of quantities far below published mintage limits.
@HATTRICK said:
It is clear the mint is testing the market to see if can make far more money by special auctions and deals with the big buyers.
It is also clear they have no ethics to follow the rules or care for the little collectors. Get ready for many changes !!!!!!
I don't know about that. Certainly the decision to make a coin variety with only 230 mintage is an elite offering that we could argue should not be made/sold, but I can think of no other fairer way to distribute such a prodcut. It certainly wouldn't be fair to just release them at noon on the website and have the world fight for the proverbial golden ticket that will instantly be worth multiples of the mint issue price for the lucky few (bots?) who get in virtual line first.
No argument about the auction as I said it was a test. However they should show correct Mintage Limits and Product Limits before coins go on sale and not days or weeks after. Also they should block Bots at all times.
Again the point is they are testing how to maximize profits without regards to the individual buyers.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
Again, whatever you say. If you think changing product limits after the fact is "accurate," I can't help you.
The meaning I take is the plain meaning of the words, according to the dictionary that I already have out, and at the ready. If "entire authorized mintage" does not mean every last coin set forth in the mintage limit, then, again, I can't help you.
If you want to parse every single word, debating the meaning of the word "is" to give credence to what the Mint is doing, I also can't help you.
If the mintage limit is nothing more than an arbitrary number that the Mint might or might not manufacture, at its discretion, based on undisclosed criteria, then, whatever it means to you, it means nothing at all to me. And I'm sure to plenty of others as well.
Which is why they go to trouble of disclosing the number in the first place, and generally sticking to it. We are expected to make buying decisions based on it.
Which is impossible if they don't stick to it, assuming there is demand. If you don't think buying decisions can be changed based on whether a given mintage for a given product at a given price is 10K versus 17.5K, or 50K versus 75K, again, I can't help you.
I'm not sure why they are doing what they are doing now, but they are not doing themselves any favors by not being straight with the people who ultimately give value to whatever they produce.
I hope you don't work in specifications or contracts. It's pretty clear that you don't.
@Rick5280 said:
"mintage limit' = Apple. Means nothing to me.
"entire authorized mintage" = Orange. Means something to me.
Why wouldn't "mintage limit" just mean "we don't make any more than x?" To my knowledge, the mint has never violated that.
You are correct. Mintage limit is absolute allowed max. Product limit applies to individual purchase option. Mint has never been bound to max out production to align with either published limit nor exceeded. Many of these people do not remember the 2000s when many fractional offerings produced and offered did not meet either mintage or product limits and some orders were even cancelled.
@HATTRICK said:
It is clear the mint is testing the market to see if can make far more money by special auctions and deals with the big buyers.
It is also clear they have no ethics to follow the rules or care for the little collectors. Get ready for many changes !!!!!!
I don't know about that. Certainly the decision to make a coin variety with only 230 mintage is an elite offering that we could argue should not be made/sold, but I can think of no other fairer way to distribute such a prodcut. It certainly wouldn't be fair to just release them at noon on the website and have the world fight for the proverbial golden ticket that will instantly be worth multiples of the mint issue price for the lucky few (bots?) who get in virtual line first.
I am glad that the gold privy was offered separate. From a visual standpoint it is distracting. If all golds were privy and widely available would have been deal killer for me. The auction format for anyone wanting one kept those people in a separate lane.
Kudos to mint for not including like they did with silver. They made the right decision with gold.
@Goldminers said:
Any new word on the rest of the US Mint gold FH non-privy coins?
Since they have to be sold this year because they are coins, it is getting late in the game to market the other 7,500 or so, even if they were actually struck. The real question, is did they actually mint them all, or not? The Mint spokesman statement did not 100% confirm they did.
Any idea who sells the FH gold advance release PCGS 70 Reagan Legacy holders? A large total of 441 PCGS 70's were graded FDOI and FS, but I can't find where to buy them? Not seeing graded 70's for sale at collectpure either?
We should get the new mint sales report for Nov 25 week later today. Still no new 2025 product schedule.
Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck. Then again, the website showed the Product Limit as 17,500 until it didn't, so who knows?
From Coin World, November 8, 2024:
"Production of the limited-edition Proof 2024 230th Anniversary Flowing Hair, High Relief 1-ounce .9999 fine gold dollar is completed, with the maximum mintage of 17,500 coins executed at the West Point Mint in New York.
U.S. Mint spokesman Michael White confirmed to Coin World via email Oct. 30 that production of the entire authorized mintage was achieved. Retail pricing for the gold coin was to be announced by the U.S. Mint on Nov. 13, the day before the product is put on sale.
Orders will be restricted to one coin per household."
Key words there
"production of the entire authorized mintage"
So what was the "authorized mintage"?
Maximum mintage and authorized mintage might be completely different.
Coinworld makes statement in first paragraph and assumes Whites statement regarding authorized is also 17,500.
Previous post “ Actually, the Mint spokesperson did definitely, 100% say that 17,500 were struck” is not correct.
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which is does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
Again, whatever you say. If you think changing product limits after the fact is "accurate," I can't help you.
The meaning I take is the plain meaning of the words, according to the dictionary that I already have out, and at the ready. If "entire authorized mintage" does not mean every last coin set forth in the mintage limit, then, again, I can't help you.
If you want to parse every single word, debating the meaning of the word "is" to give credence to what the Mint is doing, I also can't help you.
If the mintage limit is nothing more than an arbitrary number that the Mint might or might not manufacture, at its discretion, based on undisclosed criteria, then, whatever it means to you, it means nothing at all to me. And I'm sure to plenty of others as well.
Which is why they go to trouble of disclosing the number in the first place, and generally sticking to it. We are expected to make buying decisions based on it.
Which is impossible if they don't stick to it, assuming there is demand. If you don't think buying decisions can be changed based on whether a given mintage for a given product at a given price is 10K versus 17.5K, or 50K versus 75K, again, I can't help you.
I'm not sure why they are doing what they are doing now, but they are not doing themselves any favors by not being straight with the people who ultimately give value to whatever they produce.
I hope you don't work in specifications or contracts. It's pretty clear that you don't.
@Rick5280 said:
"mintage limit' = Apple. Means nothing to me.
"entire authorized mintage" = Orange. Means something to me.
Why wouldn't "mintage limit" just mean "we don't make any more than x?" To my knowledge, the mint has never violated that.
Because it means absolutely nothing if it doesn't mean they are willing to make that many if there is demand. In the real world, limiting sales to an amount below the limit would mean that the limit was not really the limit.
That's why. The Mint "violated" the limit in this case by belatedly, after the fact, disclosing a product limit far below the mintage limit after first
jmlanzaf,
"The "mintage limit" is the "authorized mintage"."
Since when lol?
1) On 2/8/24 the L&B Gold went on sale. The "Mintage Limit" was established to be 10,000 coins max.
2) 30 days later, when orders ceased, approx 5600 coins had been ordered. No more orders were allowed in.
3) The Mint then began to strike the entire "authorized mintage" of approx 5600 coins.
4) Those 5600 coins, after 5 weeks of production began shipping in the middle of May.
5) Apples = Oranges = a good addition to one's diet!
6) I think I'm all "semantic'd" out at the moment!
7) Thank you for you viewpoints on everything, agreeable or not!
I for one, happen to support the Mint for finally doing a good thing with the L&B offer--Mint to demand! Maybe they could've done that with the FHG? Then whoever wanted one, got one, and the USM makes a killing(as if they haven't already).
I congratulated Ventris herself, in person regarding that release while walking past the Mint booth at the ANA show last March.
Today, I'm thinking $3020 per coin wasn't such a bad deal after all.....
@Rick5280 said:
jmlanzaf,
"The "mintage limit" is the "authorized mintage"."
Since when lol?
1) On 2/8/24 the L&B Gold went on sale. The "Mintage Limit" was established to be 10,000 coins max.
2) 30 days later, when orders ceased, approx 5600 coins had been ordered. No more orders were allowed in.
3) The Mint then began to strike the entire "authorized mintage" of approx 5600 coins.
4) Those 5600 coins, after 5 weeks of production began shipping in the middle of May.
5) Apples = Oranges = a good addition to one's diet!
6) I think I'm all "semantic'd" out at the moment!
7) Thank you for you viewpoints on everything, agreeable or not!
I for one, happen to support the Mint for finally doing a good thing with the L&B offer--Mint to demand! Maybe they could've done that with the FHG? Then whoever wanted one, got one, and the USM makes a killing(as if they haven't already).
I congratulated Ventris herself, in person regarding that release while walking past the Mint booth at the ANA show last March.
Today, I'm thinking $3020 per coin wasn't such a bad deal after all.....
TOTALLY different situation. L&B had a pre- announced 30 day ordering window that they honored. The equivalent to this would be if they just closed the window without warning after a day or two, before hitting the 10K maximum.
Comments
Not correct only if "entire authorized mintage" means something other than "mintage limit." Which it does not. At least not in English.
If you guys want to twist yourselves in knots to justify thinking nothing they say has its plain meaning, have at it and enjoy yourselves. I'm not playing.
LOL! I'm not playing. You a funny guy. 🤣
Like I said before "The mint will do whatever it wants." You just need to figure out what they mean, or you can just wait and the answer will reveal it's self. Which is what I like to do. So I don't need to justify anything. No knots here.
They have very clear meanings at the Mint.
I just received an email from a long-time reputable coin dealer who usually can get these to sell at good pricing, and has been in contact with the mint and with other advanced buyers, and he said he does not even think more than 8,000 were minted. There is a lot of uncertainty about these.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I'm sorry I forgot, you already know everything, and you haven't been wrong,yet 😂 about either of these Flowing Hair medal/ coins.
Waiting to see if additional 7500 were minted is where some people are now. Personally dont feel they were produced despite CoinWorld and verbiage discussed pages ago. I look past that NJGuy. Only saw his comment in someone else's post. That guy ran the Silver FH discussion into the ground. Could care less about batting zero even off a tee. Guy just looks for interaction with anyone and willing to take them over the cliff. Cant help the guy understand despite explaining it all to him. Pretty sad.
As far as myself followed the order numbers and was in ball park of sales reported. Followed the 2024 Gold Buffalo and Eagle proof. Never doubted this would sell out at 17,500 but surprised to see initial sales limited to 10,000.
I followed this since Nov 2023 and even bought a gold eagle to hedge in December. Wanted this badly and all came together with an order 2000 into order window 1 min in along with my hedge trimming off around $400. Never was willing to chance missing this. Feel sorry for anyone that wanted this and willing to pay original asking price but passed because some guy without anything better suggested the mint could never sell 17,500. This is an amazing coin.
7500 sold in 4 mins online… that was a lot of momentum that would have hit 15,000 naturally plus the 2,000 for ABPP and 500 for Baltimore if mint offered the originally proposed 17,500.
It's okay. Everyone makes mistakes. 🤣
It turns out that every mistake I have made relates directly to being given bad information by the Mint, and relying on it. Guilty as charged there.
If I am making a mistake now, we'll have to go back to my third grade teacher and figure out where she went wrong in teaching me how to read, write and understand English. OTOH, if am not wrong, you might have to go back to your teachers and do the same.
Congratulations!! I never said they couldn't sell 17.5K. Only that they wouldn't in the first 24 hours. And, as it turns out, they didn't, regardless of what you think might have happened had the missing 7.5K actually been offered for sale.
What's your hedge now against another 7.5K hitting the market, likely along with an equivalent number of silver medals? Because that seems to be a real possibility, unless "entire authorized mintage" actually does turn out to mean something other than "mintage limit." And, if it does happen, regardless of how quickly it might sell out, it will do nothing to enhance the value of the coins and medals already in the market.
It sold out in 4 minutes. I think it's time to take a seat on this topic.
Lol!!!
So you were that kid sitting in the corner by yourself, believing everything you were told.
Look at what just arrived today!
I'm hoping for the "Last Strike" honors. Does opening it disqualify me? 😆
Do you always believe whatever the Mint publishes literally? It is Tuesday. It is after 5PM ET. Yet there is no report.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
No idea why I unblocked your response. Wont make mistake again. So here goes.
Hedge offset cost locking me in off lower spot. Not selling therefore secondary market is irrelevant. That means no need to hedge. Bought to own, not to trade.
You seriously think mint held back 25k silver to match up with 7500 gold? I never had Core curriculum so maybe you can explain that math to me. You called for silver medals to hit $70 in secondary market with dealers dumping inventory. You suggested massive returns with people playing a free lottery ticket for a privy. Plus so much more craziness.
Where you failed was recognizing the demand of one of Americas most cherished profiles that is new. It is unique and refreshing vs garbage produced past 15 years.
I like the idea of you on board with the mint holding back product for future release. It makes my 1 of 10k currently known more reassuring.
Look at current high prices. The mint could have sold 75,000/17,500 and original prices would still be held. I know you cant get that, but not my problem. You argued long about original prices and secondary market not supporting them. Now want to talk about additional supply on secondary prices? That does not take reactive carbon chain mathematics to understand.
The mint not selling full limits does not offer you an “out” of nonstop craziness. I envy the people that never read your posts.
Congratulations. Despite seeing them online when I opened my box still amazed. Looked at it so much since then.
Likely doing a 360 and keeping mine in original box vs grading.
We have the sales numbers. It's more than 8000. They sold 7600 1st day with just under 2000 ABPP.
Holidays often mess with the schedule
Valuable label still available at no charge. 😊
If Macy's can't keep track of $154 million in losses related to small package delivery expenses over 3 years, maybe we shouldn't expect the Mint to publish updated sales numbers on time.
Maybe the bean counters took the entire week off for Thanksgiving. Still, it shouldn't be that hard for them to just explain to their customers how and when they plan to sell the other 7,500.
Why is it such a big secret?
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
The mint never gave any bad information. You made ASSumptions about what they told you.
Sure I did. Terrible ASSumption to ASSume they would produce to meet demand up to their announced limit. Because, after all, why would they when can leave literally millions of dollars on the table at the expense of the US Treasury? 🤣
That's on me. Going forward, I now know that what they say means nothing, so I will not pay attention.
All of their information has been 100% accurate. Why does it mean nothing to you? Maybe you should interpret the information for what it says, not what you hope or expect that it says and stop blaming others?
Whatever you say. But, where I come from, 75K =/= 50K, 17.5K =/= 10K, and changing Product Limits on the fly, after an on-sale date, is the exact opposite of "100% accurate." Of course, as with most things in life, YMMV.
So said it's a secret? This coin is small potatoes for the Mint. Maybe they just aren't obsessed with it like you are.
Where did they publish those numbers as anything other than a limit? Do you understand what "limit" means? Maybe that's been the problem all along.
So as an example, if the speed limit is 55, you can drive any speed under that and legally be OK. That means you can go 10mph or you can go 40mph or you can go the full 55mph. It does not mean you have to go exactly 55mph.
Mine just arrived… WOW! It’s a stunner in hand. At first I was wanting to flip. Now I’m seriously considering grading and keeping. I’m not currently a pcgs member though so would have to rejoin. It looks pretty flawless to my eyes. Only question would be rim above S on reverse.. but it may be as minted and I’ve seen 70s worse. What do y’all think?
Beautiful Coin!
Tough call on the rim, I'd bet the TPG's would let it slide, given the many Privy 70's with more problems than yours?
It looks like a "hanging Chad" on that lower leaf, just above his right wing. But again, not a terrible offence imo.
Tough call...
Good eye, yep, tiny little spot there as well. Anyone else think it has a shot at 70 with those two areas?
Great. But this is not a speed limit.
If the mintage limit does not mean the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand, then it means nothing at all, and they might as well say nothing and just do whatever they want. If they are going to produce arbitrary amounts without transparency, there is no reason to publish limits, since people cannot use them to make decisions, either to purchase or not to purchase.
People who would have bought at 50K, but not 75K, were misled and missed out. Same with 17.5K and 10K.
And, rest assured, those who did buy will scream if and when more hit the market. If they keep this up, they will annoy enough people that it will impact their ability to sell overpriced bullion in the guise of modern collector product.
It is clear the mint is testing the market to see if can make far more money by special auctions and deals with the big buyers.
It is also clear they have no ethics to follow the rules or care for the little collectors. Get ready for many changes !!!!!!
I am not "obsessed" with this coin as someone has suggested, just because I want a straight answer from the Mint on their intentions for 7,500 potential coins being issued in some other form to make my $5,200 purchase of a graded PCGS 70DCAM FDOI go down in value. I personally don't like buying a limited-edition product item and then having more show up later.
I bought two of these direct from the Mint and both had damage. One had a surprisingly big gouge scratch on the eagle's neck and the other a tiny scratch or defect in the mirror on the obverse.
I finally decided that to keep my complete modern commemorative set 100%, I would have to buy a graded 70. I was going to buy at Pinehurst, but they upped their prices by several hundred dollars, TWICE, so they must feel these are more limited than even their original expectations, based on the originally marketed 17,500 max mintage.
If you look about ten pages back, you will see I also did not expect a sellout unless the number was closer to 10,000. Then the Mint comes out and says things that imply 17,500 were struck. Yet it seems really only 10,000, or maybe less, were actually available for purchase.
I have made phone calls into the Mint to Michael White, their public representative, to ask for clarification and have not received a call back from the messages I left, as I was promised, yet. This is not a good way to do business, and I agree with @NJCoin this is annoying.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I don't know about that. Certainly the decision to make a coin variety with only 230 mintage is an elite offering that we could argue should not be made/sold, but I can think of no other fairer way to distribute such a prodcut. It certainly wouldn't be fair to just release them at noon on the website and have the world fight for the proverbial golden ticket that will instantly be worth multiples of the mint issue price for the lucky few (bots?) who get in virtual line first.
Do you prefer "we" to "you"? That's not a criticism. It's just a fact. The Mint does not spend a lot of time thinking about this tiny offering that is a rounding error on their actual production. You are interpreting silence as being more nefarious than that even though it doesn't actually benefit the Mint at all to play coy.
Latest eBay sales ("2024 gold 230" keywords):
274 for sale, 25 sold last 2 days, 96 sold last 7 days
Edited
Get a dictionary out, you have a few things to learn:
Mintage limit does not mean "the amount the Mint is ready, willing and able to sell, assuming there is sufficient demand."
"Meaning nothing" does not mean "inaccurate" or "not 100% accurate."
The mint publishes what it wants and it's all been accurate. Whether you take meaning from it is up to you. While your ASSumptions were reasonable, you still can't blame anyone but yourself for relying on them.
I think your search criteria may be unintentionally reducing your total. I use "2024 Flowing Hair Gold" and it returns 319 active listings. I think some sellers leave out the "230":
FWIW - Tim
I agree. 230 doesn’t need to be in the search
Again, whatever you say. If you think changing product limits after the fact is "accurate," I can't help you.
The meaning I take is the plain meaning of the words, according to the dictionary that I already have out, and at the ready. If "entire authorized mintage" does not mean every last coin set forth in the mintage limit, then, again, I can't help you.
If you want to parse every single word, debating the meaning of the word "is" to give credence to what the Mint is doing, I also can't help you.
If the mintage limit is nothing more than an arbitrary number that the Mint might or might not manufacture, at its discretion, based on undisclosed criteria, then, whatever it means to you, it means nothing at all to me. And I'm sure to plenty of others as well.
Which is why they go to trouble of disclosing the number in the first place, and generally sticking to it. We are expected to make buying decisions based on it.
Which is impossible if they don't stick to it, assuming there is demand. If you don't think buying decisions can be changed based on whether a given mintage for a given product at a given price is 10K versus 17.5K, or 50K versus 75K, again, I can't help you.
I'm not sure why they are doing what they are doing now, but they are not doing themselves any favors by not being straight with the people who ultimately give value to whatever they produce.
"mintage limit' = Apple. Means nothing to me.
"entire authorized mintage" = Orange. Means something to me.
Good points about the keywords. I'll use a union of those the next time (i.e. also no 230).
I hope you don't work in specifications or contracts. It's pretty clear that you don't.
Why wouldn't "mintage limit" just mean "we don't make any more than x?" To my knowledge, the mint has never violated that.
Apple= Orange
The "mintage limit" is the "authorized mintage".
Because it means absolutely nothing if it doesn't mean they are willing to make that many if there is demand. In the real world, limiting sales to an amount below the limit would mean that the limit was not really the limit.
That's why. The Mint "violated" the limit in this case by belatedly, after the fact, disclosing a product limit far below the mintage limit after first and second day sell outs of quantities far below published mintage limits.
No argument about the auction as I said it was a test. However they should show correct Mintage Limits and Product Limits before coins go on sale and not days or weeks after. Also they should block Bots at all times.
Again the point is they are testing how to maximize profits without regards to the individual buyers.
You are correct. Mintage limit is absolute allowed max. Product limit applies to individual purchase option. Mint has never been bound to max out production to align with either published limit nor exceeded. Many of these people do not remember the 2000s when many fractional offerings produced and offered did not meet either mintage or product limits and some orders were even cancelled.
I am glad that the gold privy was offered separate. From a visual standpoint it is distracting. If all golds were privy and widely available would have been deal killer for me. The auction format for anyone wanting one kept those people in a separate lane.
Kudos to mint for not including like they did with silver. They made the right decision with gold.
They did accidentally violate it once.
jmlanzaf,
"The "mintage limit" is the "authorized mintage"."
Since when lol?
1) On 2/8/24 the L&B Gold went on sale. The "Mintage Limit" was established to be 10,000 coins max.
2) 30 days later, when orders ceased, approx 5600 coins had been ordered. No more orders were allowed in.
3) The Mint then began to strike the entire "authorized mintage" of approx 5600 coins.
4) Those 5600 coins, after 5 weeks of production began shipping in the middle of May.
5) Apples = Oranges = a good addition to one's diet!
6) I think I'm all "semantic'd" out at the moment!
7) Thank you for you viewpoints on everything, agreeable or not!
I for one, happen to support the Mint for finally doing a good thing with the L&B offer--Mint to demand! Maybe they could've done that with the FHG? Then whoever wanted one, got one, and the USM makes a killing(as if they haven't already).
I congratulated Ventris herself, in person regarding that release while walking past the Mint booth at the ANA show last March.
Today, I'm thinking $3020 per coin wasn't such a bad deal after all.....
TOTALLY different situation. L&B had a pre- announced 30 day ordering window that they honored. The equivalent to this would be if they just closed the window without warning after a day or two, before hitting the 10K maximum.
I'll think I'll stick with #6 as stated above...
"I think I'm all "semantic'd" out at the moment!"
Anybody else?!