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The 2023-2024 NFL Playoffs Discussion

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  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Arguing with basebalIQ21 is like talking to a brick wall because no matter what he doesn’t seem to understand what you’re saying which is intentional because he knows you’re making a valid point.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:

    @galaxy27 said:

    @Darin said:
    Here’s what it amounts to…..

    Kick the field goal, it’s a 3 score game.

    Convert fourth down and then score a TD, it’s a 3 score game.

    Someone please explain how going for a risky 4th down isn’t flawed decision making in that situation?

    if you choose to incorporate percentages, kicking a FG of that length was riskier. i said up above that Badgley was 77% successful from 40-49 for his career, while the Lions were 17 out of 20 (85%) when going for it on 4th and 3 or less in the reg season plus the playoffs

    Galaxy- the only thing is you don’t get points for converting 4th and 3.
    Who’s to say if they did convert that 4th down that they wouldn’t have turned the ball over after that?
    Your percentages would be valid if they scored a TD 85% of the time but not apples to apples when you’re comparing 3 points to converting a 4th down.

    if Reynolds catches that pass, as everyone with a functioning pair of eyes agrees he should have, they would have had a fresh set of downs about 10 yards closer. sure, they could have turned it over after that. a lot of things could have happened from that point on. but barring your doomsday "what if" scenario, they would have burned more clock, and they would have been closer to the goal post for Badgley to try a FG if the drive stalled and they didn't go for it. a higher percentage kick. i even liked their chances of making another house call the way the offense had been moving, and that would have put them up 21 with 4-6 minutes left in the 3rd quarter. Campbell went for the dagger and his players failed him. seriously, look at those 5 links basebal provided.........................are we really going to sit here and blame the HC after that 3 Stooges act?

    the players lost that game and no one will convince me otherwise, but i respect your opinion to pin it on Campbell

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    The coach needs to be more aware and adjust to the situation. The field goal would have made it a three score game. So kick the field goal. I might agree with going for it if by making the field goal it would still be a two score game. So in my opinion it was flawed decision making. Three points would have been huge.
    Doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped it on fourth down, the fact that could happen should have entered into the coach’s decision as well.
    Of course making the field goal is no guarantee but it’s almost automatic at that distance.
    Coach should have also considered a huge loss of momentum if they don’t convert the fourth down which did happen. Niners go down and score and all of the sudden it’s a one score game.

    What adjustments is a coach supposed to make other than to just cut his team and bring in new players?

    You’re hard headed. I said mental adjustments by the coach.
    When you have a chance to go up 3 scores go for it. A TD and you’re still up 3 scores. If you don’t understand that you’re being intentionally obtuse.
    You do understand the decision to go for it preceded what the players did on the field?

    Its just not right to be blaming the coach when players are doing that. You can only make the call which were right ones and they just flat out didnt execute.

    What mental adjustment is a coach supposed to do? We cant throw the ball anymore because we cant catch it? Punters need to kick it out of bounds, we cant run because of a fumble?

    Cambell coached the game very well and his players let him down.

    3 scores that is 2 TDs and a FG is very different than 3 scores that need 3 TDs.

    The Lions went for it all year on 4th and short. The decision to go for it didnt cause multiple dropped passes, a botched special teams punt, a fumble, a dropped INT

    The Lions simply lost that game from poor play that had nothing to do with coaching or play calls

    Missouri 14 OSU 3

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Galaxy I just think the risk outweighed the potential reward in that situation. And part of that risk is of course human error. Which is exactly what happened.
    So in my mind it doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped the ball or if Goff got sacked, the mistake already happened with the coaches decision.
    To me the lions had a better chance to win the game by trying for the field goal, simple as that.
    But I can see how going for the jugular and trying to get the TD would have been huge, just not worth it to me when a TD is still a 3 score game. But I respect your opinion, you’re wrong a lot less often than basebal so I know you have a valid point.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    Galaxy I just think the risk outweighed the potential reward in that situation. And part of that risk is of course human error. Which is exactly what happened.
    So in my mind it doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped the ball or if Goff got sacked, the mistake already happened with the coaches decision.
    To me the lions had a better chance to win the game by trying for the field goal, simple as that.
    But I can see how going for the jugular and trying to get the TD would have been huge, just not worth it to me when a TD is still a 3 score game. But I respect your opinion, you’re wrong a lot less often than basebal so I know you have a valid point.

    Kicks have human error too. You cant say the risk of human error is a factor for one play but not the other.

    Missouri 14 OSU 3

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    Galaxy I just think the risk outweighed the potential reward in that situation. And part of that risk is of course human error. Which is exactly what happened.
    So in my mind it doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped the ball or if Goff got sacked, the mistake already happened with the coaches decision.
    To me the lions had a better chance to win the game by trying for the field goal, simple as that.
    But I can see how going for the jugular and trying to get the TD would have been huge, just not worth it to me when a TD is still a 3 score game. But I respect your opinion, you’re wrong a lot less often than basebal so I know you have a valid point.

    Kicks have human error too. You cant say the risk of human error is a factor for one play but not the other.

    Damn you’re hard headed!
    Of course there’s a human error factor with a field goal. A normal person would assume I realize that instead of calling me out on it since I didn’t specifically point it out.
    Okay just for you I’ll have something in my sig line momentarily.

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 4:08PM

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @Darin said:
    Galaxy I just think the risk outweighed the potential reward in that situation. And part of that risk is of course human error. Which is exactly what happened.
    So in my mind it doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped the ball or if Goff got sacked, the mistake already happened with the coaches decision.
    To me the lions had a better chance to win the game by trying for the field goal, simple as that.
    But I can see how going for the jugular and trying to get the TD would have been huge, just not worth it to me when a TD is still a 3 score game. But I respect your opinion, you’re wrong a lot less often than basebal so I know you have a valid point.

    Kicks have human error too. You cant say the risk of human error is a factor for one play but not the other.

    Damn you’re hard headed!
    Of course there’s a human error factor with a field goal. A normal person would assume I realize that instead of calling me out on it since I didn’t specifically point it out.
    Okay just for you I’ll have something in my sig line momentarily.

    You specially talked about human error for the decision to go for it so that does apply to field goals as well. They dont even get to that game if he didnt coach the way he did all year with play calls. The players made huge mistakes over and over one after another

    Missouri 14 OSU 3

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hi basebal21!

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin

    this is the way i view it. empirical evidence matters to me personally. Campbell had supreme confidence in his team. not only during that game, but all season long. when he had a chance to put a team away, he went full throttle. and almost every time in an instance like that, he succeeded. only 3 times out of 20 did they fail going for it on 4th and 3 or less. Badgley, on the other hand, was a career 77% kicker from 40-49. in other words, he missed roughly one kick out of 4 from that distance. it was not a sure thing, as you alluded to up above.

    now just imagine the Lions settling for 3 and him missing. and the game plays out the same way. do you know what people would be saying about Campbell today? especially Lions fans? you know that word for cat? that probably would have been used a time or two to describe Dan Campbell after that game. all year long you've been successful stepping on the gas from 4th and short, then when you get to a crucial situation in a playoff game you change your tune. AND LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED.

    if his players didnt execute under either scenario, it was a no-win situation for him. he was destined to be the scapegoat.

    also, consider this. unsuccessfully trying to covert on 4th and 3 there didn't change the score from 24-10 Detroit to 27-24 San Francisco. the guys on the opposite side of the ball had an opportunity to step up. but they didn't. and as evidence by baseball's links up above, NO ONE DID. why is it that all of the focus is on a singular decision by the head coach, when the entire team had two quarters worth of opportunities to nullify the outcome of that one play, yet the way they played was the complete antithesis of the 1st half?

    for the life of me I just don't see how anyone can look at those links above -- a botched pick that turned into a long reception and ultimately a touchdown, a fumble that turned into a touchdown, two dropped passes that killed two drives and gave the ball back to SF, and Ren and Stimpy botching one of the greatest punts you'll ever see.........and instead choosing to focus on one call by the head coach in which he not only trusted his players, but had every reason to do so based on past experiences.

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If and buts and candy and nuts. Kick the damn field goal and go up 3 scores. There’s no debate. There’s no ifs. Up 3 scores is up 3 scores. He did it before half and he should have done it again. No debate. No odds.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Galaxy there’s two different viewpoints and I don’t think I’m going to change your mind or vice versa. And that’s fine it would be boring if we all agreed about everything. And it’s actually nice to have basebal21 around because it’s easy to find things to disagree with in his epic ramblings.

    One thing struck me about the weekend games that I am extremely happy about. Notice it’s not the Chiefs receivers we’re talking about as far as dropped passes?
    YES BABY 🤣👍🍺🥳

  • fergie23fergie23 Posts: 2,125 ✭✭✭✭

    Funny story, the "Detroit coach didn't cost his team" folks seemingly have no answer for why he failed to go for it on 4th and goal on the 2 1/2 yard line in the first half and why they wasted a timeout with a braindead running play on 3rd and goal from the 1 yard line with 65 seconds left in the game. If they convert 85% of the time on 4th and 3 or less, then it should have been a no-brainer to go for it to end the first half. Why didn't he trust his team then???

    Is the loss entirely on the coach? No, his players failed to execute but the coaches also failed. It was a collective effort to throw away one of the few opportunities they will ever get to play in the Super Bowl.

    "wasn't a very good throw by Goff lol"
    It was low and away, a good throw hits the WR in between the numbers (of course he probably would have dropped it anyway like the one on 3rd down later in the game). Every QB in the NFL would tell you that throw should have been more accurate but that they still expect the WR to catch it. The reality is that the throw just wasn't that good, catchable sure, but simply not that good. A throw that hits him between the numbers is caught 90-95% of the time, one that makes him dive to his right does not. I think everyone that watches football would agree that a pass that doesn't make you dive to the ground to catch it is caught more often than one that does.

    Robb

  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 5:53PM

    @galaxy27 said:
    @Darin

    this is the way i view it. empirical evidence matters to me personally. Campbell had supreme confidence in his team. not only during that game, but all season long. when he had a chance to put a team away, he went full throttle. and almost every time in an instance like that, he succeeded. only 3 times out of 20 did they fail going for it on 4th and 3 or less. Badgley, on the other hand, was a career 77% kicker from 40-49. in other words, he missed roughly one kick out of 4 from that distance. it was not a sure thing, as you alluded to up above.

    now just imagine the Lions settling for 3 and him missing. and the game plays out the same way. do you know what people would be saying about Campbell today? especially Lions fans? you know that word for cat? that probably would have been used a time or two to describe Dan Campbell after that game. all year long you've been successful stepping on the gas from 4th and short, then when you get to a crucial situation in a playoff game you change your tune. AND LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED.

    if his players didnt execute under either scenario, it was a no-win situation for him. he was destined to be the scapegoat.

    also, consider this. unsuccessfully trying to covert on 4th and 3 there didn't change the score from 24-10 Detroit to 27-24 San Francisco. the guys on the opposite side of the ball had an opportunity to step up. but they didn't. and as evidence by baseball's links up above, NO ONE DID. why is it that all of the focus is on a singular decision by the head coach, when the entire team had two quarters worth of opportunities to nullify the outcome of that one play, yet the way they played was the complete antithesis of the 1st half?

    for the life of me I just don't see how anyone can look at those links above -- a botched pick that turned into a long reception and ultimately a touchdown, a fumble that turned into a touchdown, two dropped passes that killed two drives and gave the ball back to SF, and Ren and Stimpy botching one of the greatest punts you'll ever see.........and instead choosing to focus on one call by the head coach in which he not only trusted his players, but had every reason to do so based on past experiences.

    Couldnt agree more. People also seem to forget that Michael Badgley was cut losing his job before the season then resigned late in the season from his replacement struggling. Badgley himself had missed multiple extra points this year in limited time. They had high probability conversions vs low probability kicks which a missed kick would have given the 49ers even better field position

    Missouri 14 OSU 3

  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Seeing Jan Stenerud present the championship trophy after the game reminded me of this photo back in Jan’s heyday. I’m the 7 year old stick figure next to Big Willie Lanier. One of the Chiefs all time greatest players.

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin

    love it.......needs to be in the stuff from your youth thread

    btw that haircut looks oddly familiar

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,687 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    The coach needs to be more aware and adjust to the situation. The field goal would have made it a three score game. So kick the field goal. I might agree with going for it if by making the field goal it would still be a two score game. So in my opinion it was flawed decision making. Three points would have been huge.
    Doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped it on fourth down, the fact that could happen should have entered into the coach’s decision as well.
    Of course making the field goal is no guarantee but it’s almost automatic at that distance.
    Coach should have also considered a huge loss of momentum if they don’t convert the fourth down which did happen. Niners go down and score and all of the sudden it’s a one score game.

    100%. Go up by 3 scores and more importantly don't offer the Niners an opportunity to swing the momentum in their favor which they promptly did.

    The FG was the correct play call there. In the words of my fellow Philly fan, it's not even debatable.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    The coach needs to be more aware and adjust to the situation. The field goal would have made it a three score game. So kick the field goal. I might agree with going for it if by making the field goal it would still be a two score game. So in my opinion it was flawed decision making. Three points would have been huge.
    Doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped it on fourth down, the fact that could happen should have entered into the coach’s decision as well.
    Of course making the field goal is no guarantee but it’s almost automatic at that distance.
    Coach should have also considered a huge loss of momentum if they don’t convert the fourth down which did happen. Niners go down and score and all of the sudden it’s a one score game.

    100%. Go up by 3 scores and more importantly don't offer the Niners an opportunity to swing the momentum in their favor which they promptly did.

    The FG was the correct play call there. In the words of my fellow Philly fan, it's not even debatable.

    Michael Badgley came into the league in 2018, the Lions are his 5th team. He was 13-15 on extra points in 4 games this year, 168 for 175 for extra points, 37-48 on 40 to 50 yard FGs and 5 for 13 from 50+ in the regular season in his career which is why hes on his 5th team. He was cut before the season as well and brought back late.

    Where did this idea come from that a lot of people are saying that a 40+ yard FG wold have been automatic?

    Missouri 14 OSU 3

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,687 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2024 7:59PM

    @Basebal21 said:

    @grote15 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    The coach needs to be more aware and adjust to the situation. The field goal would have made it a three score game. So kick the field goal. I might agree with going for it if by making the field goal it would still be a two score game. So in my opinion it was flawed decision making. Three points would have been huge.
    Doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped it on fourth down, the fact that could happen should have entered into the coach’s decision as well.
    Of course making the field goal is no guarantee but it’s almost automatic at that distance.
    Coach should have also considered a huge loss of momentum if they don’t convert the fourth down which did happen. Niners go down and score and all of the sudden it’s a one score game.

    100%. Go up by 3 scores and more importantly don't offer the Niners an opportunity to swing the momentum in their favor which they promptly did.

    The FG was the correct play call there. In the words of my fellow Philly fan, it's not even debatable.

    Michael Badgley came into the league in 2018, the Lions are his 5th team. He was 13-15 on extra points in 4 games this year, 168 for 175 for extra points, 37-48 on 40 to 50 yard FGs and 5 for 13 from 50+ in the regular season in his career which is why hes on his 5th team. He was cut before the season as well and brought back late.

    Where did this idea come from that a lot of people are saying that a 40+ yard FG wold have been automatic?

    You can spin it any way you want. The correct call was taking the 3 pts for the very reason of what transpired afterwards. Could he have missed that FG? Sure, but odds are he would not have (after all, Badgley was a perfect 7 for 7 in FG attempts leading up to that point which you very conveniently and predictably overlooked) and even if he did miss a FG attempt for the first time this season, it was still the correct call. Getting a 4th down stop revitalized the Niners D and brought them back to life. Football is all about momentum and the momentum swung in the Niners' favor after that 4th down stop.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • Basebal21Basebal21 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @grote15 said:

    @Darin said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    The coach needs to be more aware and adjust to the situation. The field goal would have made it a three score game. So kick the field goal. I might agree with going for it if by making the field goal it would still be a two score game. So in my opinion it was flawed decision making. Three points would have been huge.
    Doesn’t matter if the receiver dropped it on fourth down, the fact that could happen should have entered into the coach’s decision as well.
    Of course making the field goal is no guarantee but it’s almost automatic at that distance.
    Coach should have also considered a huge loss of momentum if they don’t convert the fourth down which did happen. Niners go down and score and all of the sudden it’s a one score game.

    100%. Go up by 3 scores and more importantly don't offer the Niners an opportunity to swing the momentum in their favor which they promptly did.

    The FG was the correct play call there. In the words of my fellow Philly fan, it's not even debatable.

    Michael Badgley came into the league in 2018, the Lions are his 5th team. He was 13-15 on extra points in 4 games this year, 168 for 175 for extra points, 37-48 on 40 to 50 yard FGs and 5 for 13 from 50+ in the regular season in his career which is why hes on his 5th team. He was cut before the season as well and brought back late.

    Where did this idea come from that a lot of people are saying that a 40+ yard FG wold have been automatic?

    You can spin it any way you want. The correct call was taking the 3 pts for the very reason of what transpired afterwards. Could he have missed that FG? Sure, but odds are he would not have (after all, Badgley was a perfect 7 for 7 in FG attempts leading up to that point which you very conveniently and predictably overlooked) and even if he did miss a FG attempt for the first time this season, it was still the correct call. Getting a 4th down stop revitalized the Niners D and brought them back to life. Football is all about momentum and the momentum swung in the Niners' favor after that 4th down stop.

    Honest question, how is it spinning something when people point out kicker stats and as galaxey pointed out going for 2 stats?

    People are making assumptions that not only would the 40+ FG be automatic which it wouldnt, but are ignoring multiple other plays.

    Badgley played 4 regular reason games and was 13-15 on extra points. 2 of his 7 FGs were under 30 yards.

    The 49ers werent revitalized by that one drop, they were revitalized by multiple drops ending drives and missing a gimme INT and a fumble and a botched punt that should have been inside the 10 they knocked into the endzone as I linked above. Not sure why the videos didnt embed but they are there.

    The dropped INT that hit him in the face and lead to a 50 yard gain bouncing up ultimately being a TD was what revitalized the 49ers as well as the bad hand off that was a fumble deep in the Lions zone. Out of everything that happened making the correct call going for it on 4th and short with a dropped pass it wasnt even one of the 3 biggest plays that revitalized the 49ers

    Missouri 14 OSU 3

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 29,687 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    I'm not saying Campbell is to blame for the meltdown, that's on his players but Playoff NFL is not regular season football, your playing for keeps and there is no next week if you lose.

    He saw damn well how his players were underperforming and absolutely should have made adjustments to his thinking and with the flow of the game.

    It's not Dan Campbell's fault they lost but he did nothing to help save them either

    I couldn't care less what they did all season, what they did all season broke down and a good coach will see that and make adjustments, he absolutely shouldn't have trusted his guys and kicked some FG's, if anything that might have given his players time to pause and be like "What's going on"

    Take the points and adjust to what's going on in the game.

    You dont change how you play just because its the playoffs. Thats what the Dodgers do every year and its a disaster for them. You stick with what works.

    Nothing broke down other than their players ability to catch a football. They had a 20 minute span where they dropped everything from INTs to first downs. How do you coach that, just run every time, give them spidertac, he did everything he could have done and if they didnt turn into a D3 WR core they win that game

    Theres no way to adjust to guys getting hit in the hands and dropping it countless times

    What do you do when your entire WR corps is dropping passes? You don't throw it in 4th and 3 you take the FG, I can say that much.

    It's shocking that you can't see my point of view and at least partially agree

    Sadly, it's not shocking as one of the traits of being hardheaded is the inability to even consider alternative possibilities or viewpoints different from your own. It's one of the reasons I don't post here as often as I once did as I dont have the free time or energy to go back and worth with guys like that who need to get the last word every time they post or who are incapable of expanding their limited outlook. That said, I still like to stop by now and then lol.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @grote15 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:

    @Basebal21 said:

    @perkdog said:
    This game begs the question of why do NFL Coaches think that going for 3 points is a bad idea?

    They dont unless its 4th and short. The Lions were very aggressive all year on 4th and short which is what got them to where they got. Why would they change what they did all year?

    Coaching was not the issue. Play calling was not the issue. The Lions issue was they forgot how to catch a football for 20 minutes to start the second half on both offense and defense. The players gave the game away with mistakes not the coaches

    I'm not saying Campbell is to blame for the meltdown, that's on his players but Playoff NFL is not regular season football, your playing for keeps and there is no next week if you lose.

    He saw damn well how his players were underperforming and absolutely should have made adjustments to his thinking and with the flow of the game.

    It's not Dan Campbell's fault they lost but he did nothing to help save them either

    I couldn't care less what they did all season, what they did all season broke down and a good coach will see that and make adjustments, he absolutely shouldn't have trusted his guys and kicked some FG's, if anything that might have given his players time to pause and be like "What's going on"

    Take the points and adjust to what's going on in the game.

    You dont change how you play just because its the playoffs. Thats what the Dodgers do every year and its a disaster for them. You stick with what works.

    Nothing broke down other than their players ability to catch a football. They had a 20 minute span where they dropped everything from INTs to first downs. How do you coach that, just run every time, give them spidertac, he did everything he could have done and if they didnt turn into a D3 WR core they win that game

    Theres no way to adjust to guys getting hit in the hands and dropping it countless times

    What do you do when your entire WR corps is dropping passes? You don't throw it in 4th and 3 you take the FG, I can say that much.

    It's shocking that you can't see my point of view and at least partially agree

    Sadly, it's not shocking as one of the traits of being hardheaded is the inability to even consider alternative possibilities or viewpoints different from your own. It's one of the reasons I don't post here as often as I once did as I dont have the free time or energy to go back and worth with guys like that who need to get the last word every time they post or who are incapable of expanding their limited outlook. That said, I still like to stop by now and then lol.

    He gave up on me and decided decided to debate @Darin who is saying basically the same thing as me, I don't have an issue with @Basebal21 though, 99% of his posts are counterpoints to whatever people post, he stands his ground and livens up the forum the way I see it so all good

    Always good to see you Tim 🍻

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Darin said:
    Seeing Jan Stenerud present the championship trophy after the game reminded me of this photo back in Jan’s heyday. I’m the 7 year old stick figure next to Big Willie Lanier. One of the Chiefs all time greatest players.

    Love it!!!

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Somewhere in the thousands of posts I expressed my doubts about Lamar Jackson in the big moments. Anyone can look like an MVP up by 14 but what do you do down by 10 with the game on the line. Granted the ravens loss is not totally on Jackson but. He had 67 yards passing halfway through the 3rd quarter. He held the ball way too long taking 4 sacks and a strip sack. His 57% passing is near his career average.
    The excuses were he didn’t have the weapons. Well he had them this year along with the #1 rushing offense.
    He missed countless sideline passes long and the one that wasn’t long was into triple coverage in the 4th down 10.
    The Falcons refused to even contemplate signing him saying his style of QB play won’t hold up in the NFL.
    I’ve always been his biggest critic but this year I finally was ready to eat my words but another terrible playoff loss has re enforced my criticism.
    He may win his 2nd MVP but Sunday was far from an MVP performance.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:
    Somewhere in the thousands of posts I expressed my doubts about Lamar Jackson in the big moments. Anyone can look like an MVP up by 14 but what do you do down by 10 with the game on the line. Granted the ravens loss is not totally on Jackson but. He had 67 yards passing halfway through the 3rd quarter. He held the ball way too long taking 4 sacks and a strip sack. His 57% passing is near his career average.
    The excuses were he didn’t have the weapons. Well he had them this year along with the #1 rushing offense.
    He missed countless sideline passes long and the one that wasn’t long was into triple coverage in the 4th down 10.
    The Falcons refused to even contemplate signing him saying his style of QB play won’t hold up in the NFL.
    I’ve always been his biggest critic but this year I finally was ready to eat my words but another terrible playoff loss has re enforced my criticism.
    He may win his 2nd MVP but Sunday was far from an MVP performance.

    As I said he sucked plain and simple but the same poster defended him while another poster completely discounted my opinion and put the blame elsewhere.

    Lamar Jackson is a great QB and was deserving of MVP but played awful when it counted in the AFC Championship game

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I dont get what happened with Lamar. Watching the game, it seemed numerous times there were big openings he could have run through, but instead chose to hang in the pocket, forever, and either throw it away or get sacked. it is almost like he is trying too hard to be something he is not. a pocket passer.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @craig44 said:
    I dont get what happened with Lamar. Watching the game, it seemed numerous times there were big openings he could have run through, but instead chose to hang in the pocket, forever, and either throw it away or get sacked. it is almost like he is trying too hard to be something he is not. a pocket passer.

    His crybaby antics throughout the game were an added bonus

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2024 8:10AM

    one takeaway i had from that game is how shockingly well the KC defense played. sure, they were the #2 scoring D for the season, but they were plagued with injuries and the week before Buffalo had no problems putting a healthy number of points on the board against them as a result. then they get to the champ game where the consensus was that they'd get flattened by the supposed best team in the NFL, and what did they do? they balled out for four quarters. made Jackson look completely disoriented the entire game. it was a defensive masterpiece schematically. if they perform like that, coupled with their QB who you know is going to show up in the biggest game, and it'll be back-to-back for the Chiefs

    and let's face it, the Niners have basically lost two straight games and are in the Super Bowl. i'm ready for them to get down against a team like Kansas City that knows how to keep them there

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • countdouglascountdouglas Posts: 2,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    .

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    To be fair and take some blame off of Lamar looking at the stats can anyone tell me why Edwards ran the ball only 3 times?

    Why did they sign Dalvin Cook and not use him?

    In a defensive game where your struggling to get things going a good coach would maybe just maybe establish the run??

    Harbaugh and the OC deserve more blame than anyone for this loss.

    Taking nothing away from KC here, they played extremely well defensively and deserved to win

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2024 10:25AM

    @fergie23 said:

    "wasn't a very good throw by Goff lol"
    It was low and away, a good throw hits the WR in between the numbers (of course he probably would have dropped it anyway like the one on 3rd down later in the game). Every QB in the NFL would tell you that throw should have been more accurate but that they still expect the WR to catch it. The reality is that the throw just wasn't that good, catchable sure, but simply not that good. A throw that hits him between the numbers is caught 90-95% of the time, one that makes him dive to his right does not. I think everyone that watches football would agree that a pass that doesn't make you dive to the ground to catch it is caught more often than one that does.

    Robb

    unlike Maywood, i actually like you. i value your contributions and i wish there were more of them. but this is a crazy post.

    if Goff stood back there until he had enough time to find a receiver he could hit in the breadbasket while in stride, the trainers would have been picking up his pieces. it was 4th down, the most critical play of the game up to that point, and the Niners d-line was pinning its ears back to get to him. he had a handful of seconds max to get the ball out. he was under duress and ultimately made a throw that hit both hands of a teammate. yet you just composed a meaty paragraph detailing why he should have made a better throw, while briefly (and parenthetically) touching on his worthless teammate who made it evident to anyone watching that he didn't possess the ability to catch a football when it mattered most. it's a team game. Goff performed his job duties quite admirably under the circumstances, in my opinion. if he didn't have Detroit's version of Kadarius Toney on the other end of that pass, it would have been completed. Jerry Rice or Cris Carter catch that pass 99 times out of 100 apiece. a poor man's Jerry Rice or Cris Carter would've caught it. unfortunately for Goff, he was throwing to Josh Reynolds. the same Josh Reynolds, mind you, he hit in the breadbasket while in stride 5 minutes later and he still dropped it. so you see, even when Goff went over the top of your high bar of expectations, it mattered not.

    what i find interesting is that many of you refuse to touch this

    or this

    or this

    or this

    or this

    with a 10-foot pole. and that's because you're in the "Detroit coach cost his team" camp and it obliterates your narrative.

    context is everything. the Lions went for it in that situation all season long. know why? because they were highly successful at it. to the tune of an 85% clip. which, again, is a higher percent than if you opted for trotting Badgley out there. yet many of you don't care about that, and that's fine. if someone gives me two options in life to take it to the next level -- a more aggressive approach in which i have an 85 percent chance of being successful based on past experiences, versus a more conservative approach in which i connect 77% of the time -- i don't think i have to convey which direction i'd go.

    moreover, there's a monumental difference between what actually happened on that play and an attempt that never stood a chance. Goff didn't get ambushed and wasn't forced to eat the ball. he put it in the hands of a receiver who couldn't catch it. think about that. we're forced to dumb this conversation down and type "couldn't catch a football" multiple times when discussing a team that was one step away from playing in the Super Bowl................but the onus is on the head coach?

    i never thought i'd find myself on an island with basebal with no one else around, yet apparently here i am

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I dont think i have heard anyone touch on the fact that the Chiefs were shutout in the second half by Baltimore. Will they be able to put up over 20 points vs San Fran? Will the same KC defense show up in the SB. I read they have lost an edge rusher and a linebacker.

    we shall see.

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • craig44craig44 Posts: 11,200 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On the SF side, they have started out terribly the last 2 games. if they do that against KC, it will not end well for them. Will they be able to get pressure on Patty with their 4 man front? If they have to blitz, will they get gashed by Patty? Will the moment be too big for Purdey?

    George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.

  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,091 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Craig44.

    It has been established on the Sports Forum that Purdy is not very good; and never will be. :)B)

    In games where he has very good stats, he gets no credit. His success is only because of the talents and abilities of other players on the 49rs roster. In games where the 49rs lose, it is because he is not very good.

    The funny thing about sports talk leading up to any "big game" is that nobody who is yammering about which team will win, which team will lose, which player will play great and which player will play bad can accurately predict what will happen.

    The winner and loser will be determined by the two teams playing the game. All the chatter/noise that precedes the game (or take place during the game) has no meaning or substance other than it entertains the masses.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27

    To your point about the high percentage.of succeess on Detroit going for it on 4th down that number is completely invalid because not all defenses are created the same and not all situations are the same so that percentage might be real in one sense but in other senses those numbers were not based on playing the 49'ers who by all accounts have a top tier D.

    Being honest I could not disagree any more with you and anyone else that said it would have been a bad idea going for a FG in both situations, obviously your one of my favorites here and it's all good that we disagree,

    To your points about the dropped passes and other moronic mishaps that the Lions players committed it's absolutely on them but to see how this epic meltdown was unfolding I'd say the last thing as a coach I'd want to do is put the season on the line by attempting a crucial pass to Josh Reynolds.

    I'm taking my chances at 3 points

  • galaxy27galaxy27 Posts: 7,745 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    To your point about the high percentage.of succeess on Detroit going for it on 4th down that number is completely invalid because not all defenses are created the same and not all situations are the same so that percentage might be real in one sense but in other senses those numbers were not based on playing the 49'ers who by all accounts have a top tier D.

    and i totally get what you're saying. but what transpired up to that point in the game would have mattered greatly to me. i didn't see a top tier D out on the field when SF didn't have the ball. Detroit treated San Francisco's defense like a two-bit whore in the first half -- completely having their way with them, moving up and down the field, scoring at will. they hung 24 on them in the first half. it was execution at its finest. know what it looked like to me? the Tyson-Marvis Frazier fight. the bell rung, then there was an onslaught.

    taking that into consideration, if i had been Campbell in that situation and decided to err on the side of caution by sending Badgley in there, only for him to miss, i wouldn't have been able to live with myself. all year long i've punched it, my offensive is firing on all cylinders to that point, then i come to a fork in the road and make the uncharacteristic decision to go conservative and send a signal to my team that out of the blue i don't have as much confidence in them as i've had all season long? and then it backfires? i would wholeheartedly regret that decision, because it would feel like i played not to lose. and that's just not in my DNA. get the first down there and all of a sudden San Francisco looks like Marvis Frazier in the corner in a fetal position.

    if it was a 30-yard kick? i'd be right there with you guys. but ~45 from a guy who has missed one out of every four from that distance in his career? that's just not convincing enough for me to dance with someone other than the one who brought me to that point, taking everything into consideration.

    love the debate. love that we have disparate viewpoints. all good in the hood, and i'd buy every one of you a beer.........even keetswood :D

    you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet

  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    nobody who is yammering about which team will win, which team will lose, which player will play great and which player will play bad can accurately predict what will happen

    Brock Purdy is a terrible QB, just ask @SanctionII.
    Lamar Jackson sucks, just ask @perkdog.
    Josh Allen is the league MVP and current best QB, just ask @2dueces.
    Patrick Mahomes is better than Tom Brady(or will be some day), just ask @Darin.

    Yammer on, dudes!!! >:)

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    nobody who is yammering about which team will win, which team will lose, which player will play great and which player will play bad can accurately predict what will happen

    Brock Purdy is a terrible QB, just ask @SanctionII.
    Lamar Jackson sucks, just ask @perkdog.
    Josh Allen is the league MVP and current best QB, just ask @2dueces.
    Patrick Mahomes is better than Tom Brady(or will be some day), just ask @Darin.

    Yammer on, dudes!!! >:)

    No, I never said Lamar Sucks I just don't think he is the GOAT like you do 💥

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @galaxy27

    Obviously you make great points, I can't argue that thought process because it's a thought process and we each have our own.

    I'd buy everyone here a beer as well.

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If we ever met at a card or coin show, I'd be more than happy to buy anyone here a beer.

    However if you invited me up to your hotel room for some wine and cheese, and a wild game of Twister in our pajamas, I'd have to say No. 😉

  • BLUEJAYWAYBLUEJAYWAY Posts: 8,961 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will be staying with KC. It's the only definitive point I can contribute. Interesting about how point spreads are determined. I assume it's based in part on statistics of the 2 teams. Head to head matchups etc. But spreads cannot incorporate in game injuries,fumbles,missed kicks,INTS penalties. So just how accurate can a point spread be? Best to go with your own hunch.
    Would like to hear any views on how you think spreads are determined.

    Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
  • SanctionIISanctionII Posts: 12,091 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Maywood.

    Regarding Purdy. I am simply echoing statements about him previously posted on the Sports Talk forum. :)

    I actually do not know if the "Purdy is not very good" forum assessment is accurate or not.

    45 years ago Joe Montana was assessed in the same manner that Purdy is currently being assessed. Montana turned out to not be "not very good".

    In hoops the same type of assessment was made about Steve Nash and Stephen Curry early in their careers. They also turn out not to be "not very good".

    Let the yammering continue up to and through the Super Bowl so the masses can be entertained. Once the game is over the cycle can begin anew for the 2024 NFL season.

  • pdoidoipdoidoi Posts: 653 ✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:
    @galaxy27

    Obviously you make great points, I can't argue that thought process because it's a thought process and we each have our own.

    I'd buy everyone here a beer as well.

    Make mine a ROOTbeer, have not had a drink in over 21yrs.

  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @pdoidoi said:

    @perkdog said:
    @galaxy27

    Obviously you make great points, I can't argue that thought process because it's a thought process and we each have our own.

    I'd buy everyone here a beer as well.

    Make mine a ROOTbeer, have not had a drink in over 21yrs.

    And a Root Beer it would be good Sir 🧋

  • stevekstevek Posts: 28,872 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BLUEJAYWAY said:
    I will be staying with KC. It's the only definitive point I can contribute. Interesting about how point spreads are determined. I assume it's based in part on statistics of the 2 teams. Head to head matchups etc. But spreads cannot incorporate in game injuries,fumbles,missed kicks,INTS penalties. So just how accurate can a point spread be? Best to go with your own hunch.
    Would like to hear any views on how you think spreads are determined.

    Everything you mentioned and anything else under the sun.

    Actually if ya know and follow particular teams, it's not that hard to make accurate lines. On Eagles games, I can usually get within a point, or point and a half of the line, and virtually always the right way as a favorite or dog. Teams I don't know such as some AFC teams, I wouldn't be accurate at all.

    Last time I checked, long term against the spread, 49.9% of the favorites covered, and 50.1% of the dogs. So in theory, if money is burning a hole in your pocket and you have to wager on something, bet the dog for a slightly better chance of winning.

    Important to remember that although in practice it turns out that the spread is a coin flip, in reality the bookies couldn't care less which team wins. Their goal is to get equal betting action on both teams so their juice is assured. Bookies don't make money by gambling, they get rich enticing their customers into gambling.

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Maywood said:
    nobody who is yammering about which team will win, which team will lose, which player will play great and which player will play bad can accurately predict what will happen

    Brock Purdy is a terrible QB, just ask @SanctionII.
    Lamar Jackson sucks, just ask @perkdog.
    Josh Allen is the league MVP and current best QB, just ask @2dueces.
    Patrick Mahomes is better than Tom Brady(or will be some day), just ask @Darin.

    Yammer on, dudes!!! >:)

    Nope. Never said Allen was the MVP. Just said his turnovers are scrutinized much more than others with stats far below his or equal

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @pdoidoi said:

    @perkdog said:
    @galaxy27

    Obviously you make great points, I can't argue that thought process because it's a thought process and we each have our own.

    I'd buy everyone here a beer as well.

    Make mine a ROOTbeer, have not had a drink in over 21yrs.

    And a Root Beer it would be good Sir 🧋

    Root Beer float! Haven’t had once since I was a kid.

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • perkdogperkdog Posts: 30,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @2dueces said:

    @perkdog said:

    @pdoidoi said:

    @perkdog said:
    @galaxy27

    Obviously you make great points, I can't argue that thought process because it's a thought process and we each have our own.

    I'd buy everyone here a beer as well.

    Make mine a ROOTbeer, have not had a drink in over 21yrs.

    And a Root Beer it would be good Sir 🧋

    Root Beer float! Haven’t had once since I was a kid.

    I have one about once a year and it's absolutely decadent lol

  • 2dueces2dueces Posts: 6,432 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @perkdog said:

    @2dueces said:

    @perkdog said:

    @pdoidoi said:

    @perkdog said:
    @galaxy27

    Obviously you make great points, I can't argue that thought process because it's a thought process and we each have our own.

    I'd buy everyone here a beer as well.

    Make mine a ROOTbeer, have not had a drink in over 21yrs.

    And a Root Beer it would be good Sir 🧋

    Root Beer float! Haven’t had once since I was a kid.

    I have one about once a year and it's absolutely decadent lol

    I’m googling “Best root beer floats near me” as we speak. 😂

    W.C.Fields
    "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
  • DarinDarin Posts: 6,973 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Well I don’t know if Maywood quoted me correctly or not since I post a lot of bull&$@; but okay I’ll go along with it and say Mahomes will end up being GOAT.

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