@Eddi said:
How does Brad Yonaka rank the Guatemala 1 real coins of this era with regard to scarcity?
One of the toughest series to collect of all pillar denominations/mints. In problem free condition, probably only the 1/2 Guatemala real is tougher. Followed by the 2R Guat and 4R Lima, which are probably about on par…just my experience, partly based on Yonaka’s research. Of the big 4 mints (not including Santiago or Columbia) I would say the hardest single dates are NOT Guatemala minors though…of course we’re splitting hairs here. Lima has more single example dates than any other mint. And none seem to be showing up anytime soon. In that same timeframe, (since the book was published) almost all the single or dual example dates from Guatemala have shown an increase.
Bolivia is the easiest 1 reales series to collect only 4 years 1767-1770. There are some rare to very rare varieties. The toughest date is the 1770 considered uncommon and Yonaka says he observed 20 examples.
@PillarDollarCollector said:
Bolivia is the easiest 1 reales series to collect only 4 years 1767-1770. There are some rare to very rare varieties. The toughest date is the 1770 considered uncommon and Yonaka says he observed 20 examples.
No way! I call bull 😂 1768 has to be the hardest. Then 1767 & 1769 which are pretty close, and then the 1770 in that order. I’ve encountered a number of 1770 in the time I’ve been looking, lots of grades, including some beautiful XF-AU coins. Some Unc. Much less of the others.
@PillarDollarCollector said:
Bolivia is the easiest 1 reales series to collect only 4 years 1767-1770. There are some rare to very rare varieties. The toughest date is the 1770 considered uncommon and Yonaka says he observed 20 examples.
No way! I call bull 😂 1768 has to be the hardest. Then 1767 & 1769 which are pretty close, and then the 1770 in that order. I’ve encountered a number of 1770 in the time I’ve been looking, lots of grades, including some beautiful XF-AU coins. Some Unc. Much less of the others.
Ah well there goes my theory of buying the hardest dates first if possible. Purchased my raw 1770 about a week ago. So Yonaka has that series wrong?
No, Yonaka had it right, you probably just didn’t include the figures for all the varieties. He observed more of the 1770 than any other year, if you look at the bar graph provided.
@PillarDollarCollector said:
Bolivia is the easiest 1 reales series to collect only 4 years 1767-1770. There are some rare to very rare varieties. The toughest date is the 1770 considered uncommon and Yonaka says he observed 20 examples.
No way! I call bull 😂 1768 has to be the hardest. Then 1767 & 1769 which are pretty close, and then the 1770 in that order. I’ve encountered a number of 1770 in the time I’ve been looking, lots of grades, including some beautiful XF-AU coins. Some Unc. Much less of the others.
1768 is the most difficult from my experience too, not just the 1R but also the 1/2R and 4R. The 1768 2R seems to be somewhat more common than the 1767.
Completing the five denomination (20 coin) series is not difficult, if the buyer doesn't prioritize quality. This even though the mintages are much lower than much harder to find Lima dates.
A forum member owns two (2) high quality 17671R and Ortiz owned the best one I've seen. NGC lists a 1768 AU-53, and I own the XF-45. I've never seen a really nice 1768. I own the 1769 NGC AU-50, the ex-Trestamara sold by Aure & Calico in 2014. It retains mint luster (from what I can see) but has a weak center strike. It's a nicer coin than the grade IMO. I also own one of the two NGC XF-45 1770's, ex-Sedwick. It has a really good strike and detail is better than the indicated grade, but the surfaces don't match the rest of the coin.
I have 14 Potosi columnarios in TPG holders plus a few others not as nice ungraded. Outside the 4R (mostly 1770), the only nice minor I recall is the 1769 2R which I mentioned in a prior post.
@Eddi said:
How does Brad Yonaka rank the Guatemala 1 real coins of this era with regard to scarcity?
From 1754-1771 only 4 (out of 32 coins listed) coins are considered scarce & uncommon the rest are all rare to extremely rare to possibly unique. Altogether Yonaka's books lists 32 coins that includes regular dates and varieties.
Scarce = Yonaka observed 8-10 examples
Uncommon = Yonaka observed 11-20 examples
Guatemala 1 reales are by no means an easy series to collect and I doubt many show up for sale in a 12 month period.
Collecting this series is a lifetime goal and ''impossible'' to fully complete. Even if someone has the funds that does not mean they will find the coins they want. A lot of these coins are in long term collections and I highly doubt those collectors want to sell unless they upgrade a coin then maybe they will consider selling the lower grade example.
True, with mintages maxing at below 20,000 for all denominations except the 8R and very high attrition, there cannot be many available.
A lot less uncertainty vs. Lima coins due to the mintage difference.
@WCC This is the coin you’re talking about, it was listed on World Numismatics for probably a year…I just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Spendy. Probably the best one known at the moment though.
@SimonW said: @WCC This is the coin you’re talking about, it was listed on World Numismatics for probably a year…I just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Spendy. Probably the best one known at the moment though.
Yes, that's the one. It was consigned to Sedwick, opening bid of $500 with no takers last year. The Sedwick images were not good but I don't know how it actually looks.
I have about $300 in my XF-45. I made the mistake of conserving it though and NGC dipped it blast white. Really annoying.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's not sold but consigned again.
@ELuis said:
This one was sold recently:
For 480,00€
I’ve seen more of this date recently that I would have expected to see all at once, I recall three that have come to auction in that time. One is now mine, this one is the second, something funky happening with it. There was third a few months ago…they’re all in the same grade range VF-XF. Curious how sometimes uncommon things show up all at once and then not again for a while.
@SimonW said: @WCC This is the coin you’re talking about, it was listed on World Numismatics for probably a year…I just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Spendy. Probably the best one known at the moment though.
......
@WCC said:
Yes, that's the one. It was consigned to Sedwick, opening bid of $500 with no takers last year. The Sedwick images were not good but I don't know how it actually looks.
I have about $300 in my XF-45. I made the mistake of conserving it though and NGC dipped it blast white. Really annoying.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's not sold but consigned again.
Whatever's going on around VNUM on this piece looks rather fugly.
It's probably worth the $500 in that holder. The $2250 price tag was gag-worthy.
There used to be no shortage of decent Potosi pillar 4R in OK grades appearing on eBay... and you could often snag relatively pleasing VF det. Potosi pillar 8R with the typical hole for under $100. No longer.
Even typical low grade/holed 2R go pretty instantly at $30-40 now.
@WCC and @SimonW, have you watched the various MercadoLibre sites through the years??
@WCC and @SimonW, have you watched the various MercadoLibre sites through the years??
I've seen it come up in Google searches which I do occasionally. I search by date/denomination on Peru pillar coinage. On one occasion, a pretty decent 1769 Peru 1R sold on this site but I missed it.
I have, on occasion, I tried to buy a fairly rare Lima piece once, but it was in Argentina and things were weird. Shipping is crazy from there, the guy couldn’t do anything to guarantee it would arrive, which happens very frequently (things not arriving that is.)
I have, on occasion, I tried to buy a fairly rare Lima piece once, but it was in Argentina and things were weird. Shipping is crazy from there, the guy couldn’t do anything to guarantee it would arrive, which happens very frequently (things not arriving that is.)
I avoid that region. tried once and no luck
There is "El Cordobes Monedas" it is in Guadalajara, Mexico, it is on Mercado Libre and FB, is in Spanish.
I do not buy from any of these type of sites, but he have some goodies there.
Edit: It is more on the FB side, and basically for someone that need to know Spanish.
I have, on occasion, I tried to buy a fairly rare Lima piece once, but it was in Argentina and things were weird. Shipping is crazy from there, the guy couldn’t do anything to guarantee it would arrive, which happens very frequently (things not arriving that is.)
The 1768 PTS 1R was from a seller in Argentina, but I bought it through eBay.
@Eddi said:
If you guys want TOUGH/IMPOSSIBLE, try collecting Santiago minor columnarios......
The first reason it's impossible is because the coins don't exist to compile a collection, not even being struck. Using Yonaka as a source, it's not even possible to acquire a denomination set because there are no 2R.
@Eddi said:
If you guys want TOUGH/IMPOSSIBLE, try collecting Santiago minor columnarios......
Most all 1 reales series are impossible to complete same for other denominations for Peru, Guatemala and so on. The 1751's are unique when they exist for a series or maybe 2 exists based on what some said here.
It is harder to build a full Guatemala series in my opinion since there are so many rare coins in each series than to buy a single coin from Chile or Colombia. If you take the 1 reales from Colombia there is just one date 1760 and if you own that coin there you go you have completed the series.
Chile & Colombia are trophy coins and if you own just 1 count yourself lucky. Personally I would rather own the 1751's from Peru. But if you have money you can buy a Chile or Colombia coin just have to wait and since I have been collecting Latin American coins I have seen a few for sale over the past 3-4 years so yes it is possible to buy them as long as you have deep pockets.
What is is fun about collecting non 8 reales is that it is a life long pursuit. I like that challenge and you are happy each time you are able to add a coin to your collection.
Don't get me wrong if I had deep pockets I would possibly buy those from Chile and Colombia as well. Since I collect 1 reales only that would mean that single date from Colombia (1760).
@Eddi said:
If you guys want TOUGH/IMPOSSIBLE, try collecting Santiago minor columnarios......
Most all 1 reales series are impossible to complete same for other denominations for Peru, Guatemala and so on. The 1751's are unique when they exist for a series or maybe 2 exists based on what some said here.
Most collectors presumably don't consider the 1751 Lima dates required for a complete set. Yonaka also lists a possible 1751 2R which is unconfirmed and the 1752 4R is not confirmed either.
Completing the Lima 1R from 1752-1772 is certainly feasible for a low number of collectors with the 1766 the hardest. Outside this date, the 1752-1772 is not that difficult if the collector isn't selective about quality. It's mostly considered difficult to collectors who are used to collecting coinage which can be found all the time or on short notice
Don't get me wrong if I had deep pockets I would possibly buy those from Chile and Colombia as well. Since I collect 1 reales only that would mean that single date from Colombia (1760).
I recall seeing the 1760 Chile 1/2R twice. Never seen the 1R or 4R.
I've seen the 1760 Columbia 1/2R once. I believe unique or two known.
I've seen the Columbia 1R numerous times, though only twice relatively nice. The PCGS VF-25 or 35 and the holed UNC recovered from the site which produced the discovery of the 1770 8R. My recollection is estimated nine known but the frequency of sale indicates it's somewhat more available than that.
I got this one holdered today, it got the grade I expected, even with the strike weaknesses, it's in a great state of preservation. This is the Yonaka plate coin I believe.
Not a fan of the photography, personally, kinda washed out.
Thank you! I was pleased with it. Now to get the rest of the series in XF 😂
I infer you know this, but I don't think anyone has done that in the last 100 years. Sellschopp or Patterson didn't, even excluding the 1752.
It’s good to have goals 😂
Yeah, I know. I only have five at the moment. Only one is XF. I do plan on completing at least one of the minor denominations. 4R is a long shot, you’re much closer to that than I am.
Thank you! I was pleased with it. Now to get the rest of the series in XF 😂
I infer you know this, but I don't think anyone has done that in the last 100 years. Sellschopp or Patterson didn't, even excluding the 1752.
It’s good to have goals 😂
Yeah, I know. I only have five at the moment. Only one is XF. I do plan on completing at least one of the minor denominations. 4R is a long shot, you’re much closer to that than I am.
I’m pretty sure we have many of the same dates too.
I think you have:
1753
1754
1756
1770
1772
I don’t know the other one, or if these are accurate.
I have:
1753
1756
1766
1770 (this one’s crap)
1772
In your list, I don't have 1753. I do have 1755 (JM) and 1758. If I had been willing to spend about $20K+. I'd also have nice ones of the 1757, 1761, 1762, 1765, 1769, and 1771. The last one for a measly $400+ back in 2002.
@wcc I get that, I never really planned on completing the 4R set, just plan on picking up what I can, when I can, without killing my budget and with being able to resell them without a massive loss, if the situation demanded.
Comments
One of the toughest series to collect of all pillar denominations/mints. In problem free condition, probably only the 1/2 Guatemala real is tougher. Followed by the 2R Guat and 4R Lima, which are probably about on par…just my experience, partly based on Yonaka’s research. Of the big 4 mints (not including Santiago or Columbia) I would say the hardest single dates are NOT Guatemala minors though…of course we’re splitting hairs here. Lima has more single example dates than any other mint. And none seem to be showing up anytime soon. In that same timeframe, (since the book was published) almost all the single or dual example dates from Guatemala have shown an increase.
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Bolivia is the easiest 1 reales series to collect only 4 years 1767-1770. There are some rare to very rare varieties. The toughest date is the 1770 considered uncommon and Yonaka says he observed 20 examples.
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
No way! I call bull 😂 1768 has to be the hardest. Then 1767 & 1769 which are pretty close, and then the 1770 in that order. I’ve encountered a number of 1770 in the time I’ve been looking, lots of grades, including some beautiful XF-AU coins. Some Unc. Much less of the others.
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Ah well there goes my theory of buying the hardest dates first if possible. Purchased my raw 1770 about a week ago. So Yonaka has that series wrong?
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
No, Yonaka had it right, you probably just didn’t include the figures for all the varieties. He observed more of the 1770 than any other year, if you look at the bar graph provided.
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1768 is the most difficult from my experience too, not just the 1R but also the 1/2R and 4R. The 1768 2R seems to be somewhat more common than the 1767.
Completing the five denomination (20 coin) series is not difficult, if the buyer doesn't prioritize quality. This even though the mintages are much lower than much harder to find Lima dates.
A forum member owns two (2) high quality 17671R and Ortiz owned the best one I've seen. NGC lists a 1768 AU-53, and I own the XF-45. I've never seen a really nice 1768. I own the 1769 NGC AU-50, the ex-Trestamara sold by Aure & Calico in 2014. It retains mint luster (from what I can see) but has a weak center strike. It's a nicer coin than the grade IMO. I also own one of the two NGC XF-45 1770's, ex-Sedwick. It has a really good strike and detail is better than the indicated grade, but the surfaces don't match the rest of the coin.
I have 14 Potosi columnarios in TPG holders plus a few others not as nice ungraded. Outside the 4R (mostly 1770), the only nice minor I recall is the 1769 2R which I mentioned in a prior post.
Nice uncommon variety without dotted mintmark!!!
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
True, with mintages maxing at below 20,000 for all denominations except the 8R and very high attrition, there cannot be many available.
A lot less uncertainty vs. Lima coins due to the mintage difference.
@WCC This is the coin you’re talking about, it was listed on World Numismatics for probably a year…I just couldn’t bring myself to pull the trigger. Spendy. Probably the best one known at the moment though.
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^wow, and when you do not know about a coin this one sold for about 63 bucks:
Not in the same level but overall not bad.
This one was sold recently:
For 480,00€
Yes, that's the one. It was consigned to Sedwick, opening bid of $500 with no takers last year. The Sedwick images were not good but I don't know how it actually looks.
I have about $300 in my XF-45. I made the mistake of conserving it though and NGC dipped it blast white. Really annoying.
It wouldn't surprise me if it's not sold but consigned again.
That coin needs an acetone bath.
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
I’ve seen more of this date recently that I would have expected to see all at once, I recall three that have come to auction in that time. One is now mine, this one is the second, something funky happening with it. There was third a few months ago…they’re all in the same grade range VF-XF. Curious how sometimes uncommon things show up all at once and then not again for a while.
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Holed & plugged!
Holed, plugged, gouged, probably bent a little…I think it was too expensive. 😅
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......
Whatever's going on around VNUM on this piece looks rather fugly.
It's probably worth the $500 in that holder. The $2250 price tag was gag-worthy.
There used to be no shortage of decent Potosi pillar 4R in OK grades appearing on eBay... and you could often snag relatively pleasing VF det. Potosi pillar 8R with the typical hole for under $100. No longer.
Even typical low grade/holed 2R go pretty instantly at $30-40 now.
@WCC and @SimonW, have you watched the various MercadoLibre sites through the years??
Agree
I've seen it come up in Google searches which I do occasionally. I search by date/denomination on Peru pillar coinage. On one occasion, a pretty decent 1769 Peru 1R sold on this site but I missed it.
@realeswatcher
I have, on occasion, I tried to buy a fairly rare Lima piece once, but it was in Argentina and things were weird. Shipping is crazy from there, the guy couldn’t do anything to guarantee it would arrive, which happens very frequently (things not arriving that is.)
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I avoid that region. tried once and no luck
There is "El Cordobes Monedas" it is in Guadalajara, Mexico, it is on Mercado Libre and FB, is in Spanish.
I do not buy from any of these type of sites, but he have some goodies there.
Edit: It is more on the FB side, and basically for someone that need to know Spanish.
The 1768 PTS 1R was from a seller in Argentina, but I bought it through eBay.
If you guys want TOUGH/IMPOSSIBLE, try collecting Santiago minor columnarios......
The first reason it's impossible is because the coins don't exist to compile a collection, not even being struck. Using Yonaka as a source, it's not even possible to acquire a denomination set because there are no 2R.
Very nice coins you all have shared, a lot of variety, I’m focused on Lima and Potosi. There is my 2 reales 1770 Potosi.
Most all 1 reales series are impossible to complete same for other denominations for Peru, Guatemala and so on. The 1751's are unique when they exist for a series or maybe 2 exists based on what some said here.
It is harder to build a full Guatemala series in my opinion since there are so many rare coins in each series than to buy a single coin from Chile or Colombia. If you take the 1 reales from Colombia there is just one date 1760 and if you own that coin there you go you have completed the series.
Chile & Colombia are trophy coins and if you own just 1 count yourself lucky. Personally I would rather own the 1751's from Peru. But if you have money you can buy a Chile or Colombia coin just have to wait and since I have been collecting Latin American coins I have seen a few for sale over the past 3-4 years so yes it is possible to buy them as long as you have deep pockets.
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
What is is fun about collecting non 8 reales is that it is a life long pursuit. I like that challenge and you are happy each time you are able to add a coin to your collection.
Don't get me wrong if I had deep pockets I would possibly buy those from Chile and Colombia as well. Since I collect 1 reales only that would mean that single date from Colombia (1760).
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
Most collectors presumably don't consider the 1751 Lima dates required for a complete set. Yonaka also lists a possible 1751 2R which is unconfirmed and the 1752 4R is not confirmed either.
Completing the Lima 1R from 1752-1772 is certainly feasible for a low number of collectors with the 1766 the hardest. Outside this date, the 1752-1772 is not that difficult if the collector isn't selective about quality. It's mostly considered difficult to collectors who are used to collecting coinage which can be found all the time or on short notice
I recall seeing the 1760 Chile 1/2R twice. Never seen the 1R or 4R.
I've seen the 1760 Columbia 1/2R once. I believe unique or two known.
I've seen the Columbia 1R numerous times, though only twice relatively nice. The PCGS VF-25 or 35 and the holed UNC recovered from the site which produced the discovery of the 1770 8R. My recollection is estimated nine known but the frequency of sale indicates it's somewhat more available than that.
One day I’m going to find and buy the 1760 Santiago 4R from Norweb. One day…
Latin American Collection
I hope you land it!!!
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
Not if I do!
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Just kidding @Boosibri 😂
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I got this one holdered today, it got the grade I expected, even with the strike weaknesses, it's in a great state of preservation. This is the Yonaka plate coin I believe.
Not a fan of the photography, personally, kinda washed out.
PCGS XF45, 1756/5 Peru 4 Reales
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Nice addition for sure. Kudos to you.
Thank you! I was pleased with it. Now to get the rest of the series in XF 😂
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I infer you know this, but I don't think anyone has done that in the last 100 years. Sellschopp or Patterson didn't, even excluding the 1752.
It’s good to have goals 😂
Yeah, I know. I only have five at the moment. Only one is XF. I do plan on completing at least one of the minor denominations. 4R is a long shot, you’re much closer to that than I am.
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Has anyone ever completed the 1Peru 1 reales 1751-1772? Or 1752-1772?
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
Patterson did from 1752-1772.
I saw these Lima 1R:
1755
1760 Holed
1761 Diagonal mark on reverse
1769
@WCC
I’m pretty sure we have many of the same dates too.
I think you have:
1753
1754
1756
1770
1772
I don’t know the other one, or if these are accurate.
I have:
1753
1756
1766
1770 (this one’s crap)
1772
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When was that ELuis?
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
Today
How do you buy from them? All is in Spanish.
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
Google Translate or…. Learn Spanish I guess 😂
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In your list, I don't have 1753. I do have 1755 (JM) and 1758. If I had been willing to spend about $20K+. I'd also have nice ones of the 1757, 1761, 1762, 1765, 1769, and 1771. The last one for a measly $400+ back in 2002.
I was able to purchase two Peru 1 reales I needed for my set. Thanks ELuis.
Coin collecting interests: Latin America
Sports: NFL & NHL
@wcc I get that, I never really planned on completing the 4R set, just plan on picking up what I can, when I can, without killing my budget and with being able to resell them without a massive loss, if the situation demanded.
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