2024 US Mint release schedule is up!
1madman
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https://catalog.usmint.gov/product-schedule/2024/
Looks like another reverse proof Morgan & Peace set
I’m intrigued by the 230th anniversary flowing hair gold coin and silver medal. I didn’t know this was going to be made. Anyone have pictures/info of these coins?
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There is some discussion of it here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1096716/flowing-hair-dollar-to-be-revived
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
Wonder what the price increases will be for 2024? I'm sure there will be some.
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Source: https://catalog.usmint.gov/product-schedule/2024/
Per the "Liberty" CW article, the $100 Au coin isn't due until 2025.
Could the 2024 gold be a '$10/one-tenth ounce' version of the 2025 '$100/one ounce' Liberty coin?
Edited for content.
Why can't CW have just gotten it wrong? Since we see it on the Mint's schedule, it's a lot more likely CW got it wrong, especially since these gold coin / silver medal combos always seem to be issued together, rather than the Mint issuing a previously unannounced version a year earlier. Especially since 2025 won't be the 230th anniversary!
I still want to see the mint do the $20 Liberty. 2024 is the 175th anniversary of the design
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
Everybody line up for your $80 silver rounds.
I'm seeing the same 5 Morgan/Peace items as this year. Two UNC, Two PROOF, one Two coin reverse proof set.
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It is certainly possible. I will send Paul @ CW an e-mail, and ask. If he responds, I will post it here.
Not always. The $100 Au coin and the Ag medal were issued the same year in 2017, 2019, and 2023. The Ag medal lagged a year in 2015 and 2021. Reference
Excellent point. It would make sense to capitalize on this 'anniversary/milestone'.
Totally! I really appreciate you reaching out to CW for a comment.
Of course, it's always possible the Mint is making a mistake in its posting. But, between the Mint and CW, given the pattern of coins and medals being issued together, other than when, I assume, there was either an issue in receiving authorization or silver planchets, it makes absolutely no sense for there to be a lag in the issuance of the gold coin, especially when the Mint posted it for release in its anniversary year. I'd bet anything CW just got this one wrong.
And, remember, they are not even close to a full ounce. But, they are not rounds. They are monetized, two beloved designs, and relatively limited mintages.
People like them, and they absolutely will be lining up. The Mint knows this, which is why they are capitalizing on the demand to turn $20 worth of silver into $76-92+ for the US Treasury. As a taxpayer, I appreciate the effort.
the silver liberty medals are struck on ase blanks
Oops! I saw the comment by @BStrauss3 below that post, about the 5 Morgan/Peace Dollars, and forgot what we were talking about!
Indeed, the Flowing Hair medals will not only be a full ounce, but they will actually be $80 rounds, albeit government issued ones.
I stand corrected. Hopefully my fans, such as @jmlanzaf and @WQuarterFreddie will see that I do humbly admit when I am wrong. 😀
Did any of you boys happen to see any other potential winners in the list? I’m with you all on Morgan/Peace, and 230th anniversary flowing hair - anything else?
I see a lot of variety in the Harriett Tubman issue and Greatest generation, but I will be curious to see if there are any buyers. The greatest generation is mostly gone and their kids (me) are getting up in age with not too much interest from current kids. Harriett Tubman was also significant in her contributions to the country, but again I will be surprised to see how many in the coin world jump on this.
Anything else on the 2024 schedule?
Your observations are spot on. The problem with the commens, not matter what the subject, is that they are designed to generate funding for designated causes. As a result, the incentives are to over produce, and that makes them dogs as investments. As a result, you buy them if you want to support the cause, or just like the coins, but you do so with the understanding that they are not going to hold their values.
I did not see the final 2.5 oz silver Military Medal...US Space Force on their list.
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ughh ....was hoping that they would drop the RP (for less frequent use, like maybe on actual commemorative years), and perhaps even the proofs. Their internal analysis might be suggesting that these were good money makers for them, and to keep milking the cow. Hopefully mintages of no more than about 275K-300K for the uncs and proofs.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but silver "Medals" are not monetized, Right?
You're absolutely right. And to see the reverse, a US coin must be flipped, a medal just turns.
Correct! I was talking about Morgan and Peace Dollars, not the Flowing Hair Liberty medal. I later acknowledged the mistake.
No problems. Thanks guys.
I realize that there is now another thread about this topic. However, just for 'completeness/future reference', I wanted to post the resolution to this issue here.
Here is the reason the previously announced 2025 $100 Gold Liberty coin was on the 2024 product schedule:
And, here is the status of the "Flowing Hair" program, as of the date of this post:
Source for Both Screenshots: https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/mint-changes-plans-for-1794-1-american-liberty-designs
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Where's the U.S. Army soldier?
US Army Air Corps
It should have the U.S. Army infantry represented.
I know these are just the prototype drawings, but they still look like computerized clip art to me. Gone are the days of sculptured hand worked art pieces.
If the us mint wants to make things interesting, go for the potluck mintmark on the Morgan’s and Peace while announcing the low mintage mm upon sellout
Have some short runs—-shut off production at a predetermined level—create some lower mintage rarities without anyone knowing in advance.
Just make it a little more interesting to create demand.
Gee, that wouldn’t flood them with returns from all the flippers for the next vault sale or anything. Now do your potluck with a no returns clause and you’d have something interesting.
It's nice to daydream, but they literally sell hundreds of thousands of each variety, so they really don't need VB or UltraBreak gimmicks to goose demand.
I frankly do not follow the VB or UB threads, just looked like a bunch of bickering the one time I checked. So perhaps I am wrong, but VB and UB don’t allow returns right? Perhaps an incorrect assumption, I don’t know.
My point was any way the flippers who believe the mint is there to provide them with a cash cow can manipulate the system, they will. So I was not supportive of a flippers gimmick. What I proposed was more akin to the signed COA, which I don’t refer to as a gimmick, and the mint has done. You buy the coin because you want to collect it, and if you happen to get a coin with a lower mintage, then a nice unexpected bonus. If you don’t you have nothing less than you bought in the first place, a coon you want to collect. I don’t see that happening, and I believe one factor would be the return policy that would allow abuse by the flippers. Unfortunate, but that’s the increasingly entitled world we live in.
The reference to VB and UltraBreaks was that they are selling a base product at a very inflated price in return for the possibility of a prize in the form of something valuable placed into a box at random.
In your scenario, people wouldn't be buying the coin anyway. Otherwise, there would be no reason to employ the gimmick. People would be buying in the hope of winning the prize.
When the Mint did the one-off with the signed COA, they did not announce it ahead of time, so it was not used to goose sales. Very different from what you are suggesting.
And, again, while it's a fun thought experiment, it's also pointless. The Mint has no problem selling 250K+ of each of 6 different flavors of these. There is strong demand as-is, without flippers crashing the website, and without winning lottery tickets randomly placed into certain packages.
The Mint has an obligation to let people know what they are getting when they are charging $80 for less than an ounce of silver. They would never do this, or go to a no return policy for people unsatisfied with their purchase.
So people here are conjuring up a problem that does not exist, and then dreaming up gimmicky fix to it. Not gonna happen. The US Mint is not Minshull Trading. They are not going to create a "fun" lottery in order to stimulate sales.
Their primary reason for being is to produce coinage for commerce. If demand for these collector coins wanes, they will simply stop making them. What they generate from their numismatic offerings is a rounding error in their budget.
Everything they do is nothing more than a service to us. They could shut it all down tomorrow, and no one in the US government would care. So it's a mistake to think the Mint director stays awake at night worrying about stimulating collector demand for Peace Dollars.
@NJCoin Thank you for your perspective, skewed as it may be. We are so far off from the intent of my post I feel it best to stop on my end. I did not suggest the bonus, for lack of a better word, be announced before hand. Nor did @coiner he said “while announcing the low mintage mm upon sellout”. I read that as after sellout, with the assumption of no prior announcement of intent by the mint. So you are making an argument by putting words into my mouth that weren’t there, nor were they there, or I believe even implied, in the post I half tongue in cheek replied to. So I appreciate your reply, but in fact the signed COA parallel was exactly what I was suggesting, not something different. Regardless they aren’t going to do it, I should have used my tongue in cheek emoji I guess.
Sorry if I misinterpreted. But the premise behind your idea is that a product that generated more than 1.5 million units sold this year needs something to generate interest. A lot of people on this forum said they'll be out next year.
We'll see. They also proudly announced how they were canceling subscriptions, and then obsessively checked the Mint website every day after they immediately sold out after HHLs were lifted. People here seem to only want what they can't have.
No returns would be the way to go. Especially on a special potluck type issue.
Morgan’s and Peace with different mm’s placed on a mixed basis—with low mintage mm announced after sellout.
Diehl; Moy and Ryder offered some products that didn’t have to be offered either.
Every one of those special releases came with problems and criticism.
All I’m saying is make it a little more interesting—signed COAs just doesn’t do it.
I hear you. And, those WWII 75th anniversary privy marks sure were an interesting windfall for the lucky few and a huge disappointment for the rest of us, while leaving millions of dollars on the table for the Mint.
Not sure about Ryder, but Diehl and Moy have shown who and what they are by getting involved with the gold company hawking its overpriced wares on cable infomercials. The "interesting" things they did at the Mint were apparently a dry run for their afterlives.
New Mint leadership clearly isn't doing that. Signed COAs are probably as good as it's going to get, since the name of the game now is to make enough of whatever to satisfy demand and maximize revenue for the US Treasury. Not to make things "interesting," for the benefit of a few and the disappointment of everyone else. Everyone now has VB for their fun and excitement.
VB is not for me.
They can “make things interesting” which would help boost demand and maximize profit.
Clearly, raising prices and increasing mintages is not working too well when much anticipated issues are not selling out and large blocks of returns are flowing back to the USM.
If they don’t start to “make things interesting” then they will be forced to dial back mintages and impact their revenue stream.
There is nowhere to go with raising prices, IMO they are on the verge of demand destruction.
Here’s my proposal. Every year, they should do a series with varying mintages from rare to common. Prior to production, the mint should do a lottery. Then, customers are given the choice as to whether proceed. Then, later in the year, the mint produces exactly what is ordered and no more. A common coin may end up a rarity due to cancellations or it could be a condition rarity. Nobody will know until they are shipped.
Lottery method comes up on the forum quite often. The issue is giving all a fair chance.
IMO speculation has to be cut off at the knees; either restocking charge or no returns.
Even the latest situation with Rev Prf dollars —everyone orders 5 then returns 3-4; not a good scenario for the USM.
Subscriptions should open and close within one month. No cancellations.
Prices by subscriptions should be slightly discounted; order live on release day at full retail.
Exactly what is "not working too well"? Right now, as I type this, only two out of the six coins offered this year can be purchased from the Mint. The two with the highest mintages, which they have already announced they will be dialing back next year. The rest sold out or are otherwise unavailable, at the increased mintages and with the increased prices. Their mintages will remain the same or be increased next year.
Their revenue stream has never been healthier. They can always sell more by lowering prices, and they can always leave money on the table for flippers by lowering mintages.
They seem to have struck the right balance now. When demand does fall, I'm sure they will address that then. Destroying demand from 250-300K all the way down to 200K is a lot better from their perspective than creating winners for those lucky enough to get them by intentionally making far less than the market can absorb.
Prices right now are about in line with other world mints, and the market seems to have accepted them, as evidenced by 1.5 million plus Morgan and Peace Dollars being sold at close to $100 per ounce of silver.
It's a real Catch-22. The same people dreaming up ways for the Mint to create lucrative winners for them would be screaming the loudest if they were unable to get their hands on them.
The equilibrium the Mint has struck involves people being able to get what they want. When they stop wanting it, the Mint will stop making it, and move on to the next thing.
As I said before, if numismatic demand totally disappeared tomorrow, everyone at the Mint would go on with their lives, and a few dozen people at an outsourced fulfillment center would move on to serving other clients. The only people who care about this are us, and the Big Boys. The Big Boys are now getting exactly what they lobbied for, and no one really cares about us.
When you subscribe nearly the entire mintage of reverse proofs and then have a huge block of returns (in this case around 30,000 over the last two weeks); I’d say that isn’t working out too well.
Destroying demand is never a good thing. Those buyers generally dont come back.
Just remember—when there is no secondary market; there will no longer be a primary market.
The reverse proofs will soon come back as available—-and will rot on the vine.
I like the no returns policy. The mint announces the product and takes orders for three months. At the end of three months it’s all locked in, produce what is ordered, charge the account and ship em out. If you decided you needed 50 sets, then you’ll get billed and shipped 50 - no returns, no gaming the system.
I am in the camp of the others who are sick of people looking at coin flipping as an easy career ……and then complaining because the mint made too many, or they didn’t get enough, or the price was too high or some other BS. Try becoming a coin dealer, I heard they are all millionaires
I know it’s not the sexiest release of the year, but I’m glad the annual unc set isn’t TBA for 9 months of the year again and at least has a summer release! Heck I was starting to think it would be canceled this year (it is just now getting close to shipping!)
I only get them to continue tradition as I push the collection back toward the 40’s. But I expect this year’s will look horrible — from worn dies and coins laying around in multi-ton bags that have been moved from warehouse to warehouse for months. :-/
Exactly. You are either in this for enjoyment of coin collecting, or you’re just a hawker who believes you are entitled to profitable flips from the mint. If you like the coin(s), subscribe, get them, enjoy them. But if it ends up you can’t turn a profit(, good, boo freakin hoo, that wasn’t the point. Adjust the mintage to the actual collectors, screw the flippers, I have no problem with that.
The mint needs to purposely make short run coins/products but not make it known in advance. Continue to use the phrase “mintage limit: none” but stop sales after 2,500 or 25,000 or whatever low number they decide. That will create an overall buzz with all of their products. People will look at everything they produce more closely and stir demand.
David Ryder created significant demand for many products when he was director recently, but the mint advertised the low mintage numbers in advance. If that low number was a secret, more interest would generate overall in their entire catalog of products.
As far as the mint to demand technique over a pre order period of 30 days, look at the 2013 reverse proof gold buffalo coin. First time I recall the mint doing that style of ordering, generated one of the highest mintages in the series, and that coin suffered for many years because of it.
1madman
You are 100% on the right track!