@jeffas1974 said:
Has anyone else pre-flipped these on eBay? I did for one of the 2 that I have on order and since it's been over 90 days I'm not sure how to update the shipping info with the tracking number once the item is finally available. This is only my 2nd item to ever sell on eBay so I'm not at all versed in this and was checking to see if anyone was aware of how to enter in that info. I guess at worst I could message the buyer in the app with the tracking number but I assume it is better to have that documented within the sale itself.
You are unable to post tracking number once the listing disappears from your 90 day history.
You are correct in thinking that you should send buyer tracking number by email.
Moving forward it is best not to list an item unless you will receive it within 30 days from sale date.😎
@jeffas1974 said:
Has anyone else pre-flipped these on eBay? I did for one of the 2 that I have on order and since it's been over 90 days I'm not sure how to update the shipping info with the tracking number once the item is finally available. This is only my 2nd item to ever sell on eBay so I'm not at all versed in this and was checking to see if anyone was aware of how to enter in that info. I guess at worst I could message the buyer in the app with the tracking number but I assume it is better to have that documented within the sale itself.
I don't like to pre-sale anything. Too much can go wrong and there's no real advantage. If they don't sell out or the price doesn't jump, your buyer will just cancel.
@jeffas1974 said:
Has anyone else pre-flipped these on eBay? I did for one of the 2 that I have on order and since it's been over 90 days I'm not sure how to update the shipping info with the tracking number once the item is finally available. This is only my 2nd item to ever sell on eBay so I'm not at all versed in this and was checking to see if anyone was aware of how to enter in that info. I guess at worst I could message the buyer in the app with the tracking number but I assume it is better to have that documented within the sale itself.
I don't like to pre-sale anything. Too much can go wrong and there's no real advantage. If they don't sell out or the price doesn't jump, your buyer will just cancel.
I'm hoping that doesn't happen but if so it'll be a lesson learned. This pre-sale was a reaction to not pre-selling any of my 10 CC and O 2021 Morgans and watching those prices drop lol.
@jeffas1974 said:
Has anyone else pre-flipped these on eBay? I did for one of the 2 that I have on order and since it's been over 90 days I'm not sure how to update the shipping info with the tracking number once the item is finally available. This is only my 2nd item to ever sell on eBay so I'm not at all versed in this and was checking to see if anyone was aware of how to enter in that info. I guess at worst I could message the buyer in the app with the tracking number but I assume it is better to have that documented within the sale itself.
I don't like to pre-sale anything. Too much can go wrong and there's no real advantage. If they don't sell out or the price doesn't jump, your buyer will just cancel.
I'm hoping that doesn't happen but if so it'll be a lesson learned. This pre-sale was a reaction to not pre-selling any of my 10 CC and O 2021 Morgans and watching those prices drop lol.
Buyer can't cancel or request a return after 90 days so this is an advantage for you the seller in this case. However, Ebay probably gave you a strike for not posting tracking information within their required time frame😉
@jeffas1974 said:
Has anyone else pre-flipped these on eBay? I did for one of the 2 that I have on order and since it's been over 90 days I'm not sure how to update the shipping info with the tracking number once the item is finally available. This is only my 2nd item to ever sell on eBay so I'm not at all versed in this and was checking to see if anyone was aware of how to enter in that info. I guess at worst I could message the buyer in the app with the tracking number but I assume it is better to have that documented within the sale itself.
I don't like to pre-sale anything. Too much can go wrong and there's no real advantage. If they don't sell out or the price doesn't jump, your buyer will just cancel.
I'm hoping that doesn't happen but if so it'll be a lesson learned. This pre-sale was a reaction to not pre-selling any of my 10 CC and O 2021 Morgans and watching those prices drop lol.
Buyer can't cancel or request a return after 90 days so this is an advantage for you the seller in this case. However, Ebay probably gave you a strike for not posting tracking information within their required time frame😉
They can just issue a charge back. As I said, there's no real advantage to it.
Oops…. I’m sure they have bigger violations of other policies for numismatic listings besides mine that go without notice and/or discipline so I doubt any fuss will be made over my accidental transgression.
Still, I don’t think I’ll pre-sell anything going forward given what has been mentioned in this and prior posts and appreciate the info from everyone.
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
@Extremeengineer said:
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
NEVER going to happen. It might not be obvious, but the customers the Mint cares about the most are the mega dealers, not individual collectors. At the ANA show, you would have been impressed by the sight of crates of newly issued Morgan, Peace, and High Relief Liberty Gold and Silver being moved under the watchful eyes of guards directly to NGC and PCGS for FDOI grading while the public stood in line to buy their limit allocations.
And what you are suggesting would directly compete with them. You presently have your choice of dealers, grading services, labels, etc. And can always create your own at the grading service of your choosing.
The Mint would absolutely never get between its largest, best customers and their customers by offering an "official" graded product that competes with them. The most juice in the game today is the markup dealers get on graded coins. Not OGP. The Mint is going to let them keep it, since the Mint already gets to mark up precious metals by a pretty significant percentage.
@Extremeengineer said:
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
NEVER going to happen. It might not be obvious, but the customers the Mint cares about the most are the mega dealers, not individual collectors. At the ANA show, you would have been impressed by the sight of crates of newly issued Morgan, Peace, and High Relief Liberty Gold and Silver being moved under the watchful eyes of guards directly to NGC and PCGS for FDOI grading while the public stood in line to buy their limit allocations.
And what you are suggesting would directly compete with them. You presently have your choice of dealers, grading services, labels, etc. And can always create your own at the grading service of your choosing.
The Mint would absolutely never get between its largest, best customers and their customers by offering an "official" graded product that competes with them. The most juice in the game today is the markup dealers get on graded coins. Not OGP. The Mint is going to let them keep it, since the Mint already gets to mark up precious metals by a pretty significant percentage.
Yeah, right. They love them so much they direct market themselves and give the dealers a 10% wholesale discount.
You might also look at the small mark-up the Mint is allowed for bullion coins as opposed to collector coins.
@Extremeengineer said:
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
NEVER going to happen. It might not be obvious, but the customers the Mint cares about the most are the mega dealers, not individual collectors. At the ANA show, you would have been impressed by the sight of crates of newly issued Morgan, Peace, and High Relief Liberty Gold and Silver being moved under the watchful eyes of guards directly to NGC and PCGS for FDOI grading while the public stood in line to buy their limit allocations.
And what you are suggesting would directly compete with them. You presently have your choice of dealers, grading services, labels, etc. And can always create your own at the grading service of your choosing.
The Mint would absolutely never get between its largest, best customers and their customers by offering an "official" graded product that competes with them. The most juice in the game today is the markup dealers get on graded coins. Not OGP. The Mint is going to let them keep it, since the Mint already gets to mark up precious metals by a pretty significant percentage.
Yeah, right. They love them so much they direct market themselves and give the dealers a 10% wholesale discount.
You might also look at the small mark-up the Mint is allowed for bullion coins as opposed to collector coins.
Facts matter.
Yes. Facts matter. The Mint does not directly sell bullion to the public at all. Fact.
The reason those markups are small is because the program was designed, by Congress, to make precious metals available to the investing public at a price that reflects precious metal value and production and distribution costs. Fact. Not to provide a numismatic premium to the Treasury. Fact. Because the Mint doesn't sell directly to the public, it cannot control retail prices. Fact. But, again, they are not competing with dealers. They are merely wholesaling to them. Fact.
And yes, part of their mandate is to sell numismatic items to the public, so they do it. But, as you helpfully point out, they give bulk purchasers a discount not available to the public, in order to give them a margin to be able to sell at the same price as the Mint and still make a few bucks. Fact.
And yet, that ~10% margin pales in comparison to what dealers make in marking up graded coins. So they can't really complain, because the Mint has to do what they have to do with respect to selling seriously marked up numismatic items to the public, and dealers cannot possibly make a ton of money selling OGP Mint product. Fact.
Nowadays the markup on ALL numismatic offerings from the Mint is the exact opposite of "small." Fact. Base metal. Precious metal. Doesn't matter. Fact.
And this isn't to screw anyone, retail collector or dealer. This is just to capture market value, rather than allowing flippers to capture it. Since the market is, by definition, what people are willing to pay, there is simply no reason to screw taxpayers while creating a windfall for whoever can successfully slam the website. Fact.
The Mint got into the graded coin business once, for the Dawn and Dusk Eagles. Fact. And, for those, the only place to get them was SB, so they were not competing with dealers on those, since they were not made available to dealers, other than by buying them at public auction, along with the public. Fact.
That was a once in a lifetime special deal. If you think the Mint would dare interfere with the symbiosis between themselves and their best customers, by ever competing with them in the slabbed coin business, I'd love to see a fact backing that up. Just one.
But, thanks for playing. I can always count on you to come in with a comment, no matter how ill informed, whenever I post. All I'm waiting for now is Freddie's admiring "Like" or "Agree" to your post, along with a comment followed by a few laughing emojis. My breath is baited.
@Extremeengineer said:
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
NEVER going to happen. It might not be obvious, but the customers the Mint cares about the most are the mega dealers, not individual collectors. At the ANA show, you would have been impressed by the sight of crates of newly issued Morgan, Peace, and High Relief Liberty Gold and Silver being moved under the watchful eyes of guards directly to NGC and PCGS for FDOI grading while the public stood in line to buy their limit allocations.
And what you are suggesting would directly compete with them. You presently have your choice of dealers, grading services, labels, etc. And can always create your own at the grading service of your choosing.
The Mint would absolutely never get between its largest, best customers and their customers by offering an "official" graded product that competes with them. The most juice in the game today is the markup dealers get on graded coins. Not OGP. The Mint is going to let them keep it, since the Mint already gets to mark up precious metals by a pretty significant percentage.
Yeah, right. They love them so much they direct market themselves and give the dealers a 10% wholesale discount.
You might also look at the small mark-up the Mint is allowed for bullion coins as opposed to collector coins.
Facts matter.
Yes. Facts matter. The Mint does not directly sell bullion to the public at all. Fact.
The reason those markups are small is because the program was designed, by Congress, to make precious metals available to the investing public at a price that reflects precious metal value and production and distribution costs. Fact. Not to provide a numismatic premium to the Treasury. Fact. Because the Mint doesn't sell directly to the public, it cannot control retail prices. Fact. But, again, they are not competing with dealers. They are merely wholesaling to them. Fact.
And yes, part of their mandate is to sell numismatic items to the public, so they do it. But, as you helpfully point out, they give bulk purchasers a discount not available to the public, in order to give them a margin to be able to sell at the same price as the Mint and still make a few bucks. Fact.
And yet, that ~10% margin pales in comparison to what dealers make in marking up graded coins. So they can't really complain, because the Mint has to do what they have to do with respect to selling seriously marked up numismatic items to the public, and dealers cannot possibly make a ton of money selling OGP Mint product. Fact.
Nowadays the markup on ALL numismatic offerings from the Mint is the exact opposite of "small." Fact. Base metal. Precious metal. Doesn't matter. Fact.
And this isn't to screw anyone, retail collector or dealer. This is just to capture market value, rather than allowing flippers to capture it. Since the market is, by definition, what people are willing to pay, there is simply no reason to screw taxpayers while creating a windfall for whoever can successfully slam the website. Fact.
The Mint got into the graded coin business once, for the Dawn and Dusk Eagles. Fact. And, for those, the only place to get them was SB, so they were not competing with dealers on those, since they were not made available to dealers, other than by buying them at public auction, along with the public. Fact.
That was a once in a lifetime special deal. If you think the Mint would dare interfere with the symbiosis between themselves and their best customers, by ever competing with them in the slabbed coin business, I'd love to see a fact backing that up. Just one.
But, thanks for playing. I can always count on you to come in with a comment, no matter how ill informed, whenever I post. All I'm waiting for now is Freddie's admiring "Like" or "Agree" to your post, along with a comment followed by a few laughing emojis. My breath is baited.
You changed the point from graded collector coins to bullion. Fact. Your original statement was about collector coins in slabs. Fact. The Mint direct markets collector coins raw. Fact.
You complained about Mint mark ups of bullion ("by a pretty significant percentage"). Fact. Note you about the mark upside of bullion are actually small.
@Extremeengineer said:
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
NEVER going to happen. It might not be obvious, but the customers the Mint cares about the most are the mega dealers, not individual collectors. At the ANA show, you would have been impressed by the sight of crates of newly issued Morgan, Peace, and High Relief Liberty Gold and Silver being moved under the watchful eyes of guards directly to NGC and PCGS for FDOI grading while the public stood in line to buy their limit allocations.
And what you are suggesting would directly compete with them. You presently have your choice of dealers, grading services, labels, etc. And can always create your own at the grading service of your choosing.
The Mint would absolutely never get between its largest, best customers and their customers by offering an "official" graded product that competes with them. The most juice in the game today is the markup dealers get on graded coins. Not OGP. The Mint is going to let them keep it, since the Mint already gets to mark up precious metals by a pretty significant percentage.
Yeah, right. They love them so much they direct market themselves and give the dealers a 10% wholesale discount.
You might also look at the small mark-up the Mint is allowed for bullion coins as opposed to collector coins.
Facts matter.
Yes. Facts matter. The Mint does not directly sell bullion to the public at all. Fact.
The reason those markups are small is because the program was designed, by Congress, to make precious metals available to the investing public at a price that reflects precious metal value and production and distribution costs. Fact. Not to provide a numismatic premium to the Treasury. Fact. Because the Mint doesn't sell directly to the public, it cannot control retail prices. Fact. But, again, they are not competing with dealers. They are merely wholesaling to them. Fact.
And yes, part of their mandate is to sell numismatic items to the public, so they do it. But, as you helpfully point out, they give bulk purchasers a discount not available to the public, in order to give them a margin to be able to sell at the same price as the Mint and still make a few bucks. Fact.
And yet, that ~10% margin pales in comparison to what dealers make in marking up graded coins. So they can't really complain, because the Mint has to do what they have to do with respect to selling seriously marked up numismatic items to the public, and dealers cannot possibly make a ton of money selling OGP Mint product. Fact.
Nowadays the markup on ALL numismatic offerings from the Mint is the exact opposite of "small." Fact. Base metal. Precious metal. Doesn't matter. Fact.
And this isn't to screw anyone, retail collector or dealer. This is just to capture market value, rather than allowing flippers to capture it. Since the market is, by definition, what people are willing to pay, there is simply no reason to screw taxpayers while creating a windfall for whoever can successfully slam the website. Fact.
The Mint got into the graded coin business once, for the Dawn and Dusk Eagles. Fact. And, for those, the only place to get them was SB, so they were not competing with dealers on those, since they were not made available to dealers, other than by buying them at public auction, along with the public. Fact.
That was a once in a lifetime special deal. If you think the Mint would dare interfere with the symbiosis between themselves and their best customers, by ever competing with them in the slabbed coin business, I'd love to see a fact backing that up. Just one.
But, thanks for playing. I can always count on you to come in with a comment, no matter how ill informed, whenever I post. All I'm waiting for now is Freddie's admiring "Like" or "Agree" to your post, along with a comment followed by a few laughing emojis. My breath is baited.
You changed the point from graded collector coins to bullion. Fact. Your original statement was about collector coins in slabs. Fact. The Mint direct markets collector coins raw. Fact.
You complained about Mint mark ups of bullion ("by a pretty significant percentage"). Fact. Note you about the mark upside of bullion are actually small.
At least try to be consistent to YOUR OWN points.
No I didn't. I responded to your post, point by point. Small markups on bullion. Direct retailing of numismatic items to the public, with a modest discount to bulk purchases. The whole post.
Maybe read a little more carefully. I wasn't complaining about anything. I was pointing out that the Mint enjoys large markups on precious metals.
In case it wasn't clear in context, I was referring to precious metals in numismatic items, not bullion. The point was that the Mint gets it markup on the products themselves.
Precious metals and, to a lesser degree, base metal items. Dealers make their money by marking up graded coins, not OGP. It's a system that works well for both of them, and the Mint has never even hinted that it is going to compete with its best customers, the dealers, in that space.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys an early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
And it's like you didn't even read any of my posts.
I didn't say it was aspirational. I said it was testing the waters.
And that it was already far above what the actual value is likely to be.
And that the seller as also offering the sets as BIN for $600.
And that whoever ends up winning, at whatever price, is very likely to cancel, with no repercussions, once the sets are widely listed for sale, at prices likely far below the winning bid, because they seller is not promising shipment within 40 days of the close of the auction.
I already said caveat emptor, and that they'll likely get some takers at $600. And that it's a rip-off at that price, this far ahead of release. And that the disclaimer in the bid terms is not going to protect the seller due to the time between today and 12/6.
So, I guess I'm saying there really isn't demand right now at $500, or above, regardless of what you or the seller think. At least not as measured by that auction, because the final price will not be binding on the buyer, and is likely to be canceled when the buyer sees what the sets are actually worth, long before the seller has them in hand to ship. If the buyer wants a refund, the buyer will get one. Period.
That is the point of all of my posts on this subject.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
And it's like you didn't even read any of my posts.
I didn't say it was aspirational. I said it was testing the waters.
And that it was already far above what the actual value is likely to be.
And that the seller as also offering the sets as BIN for $600.
And that whoever ends up winning, at whatever price, is very likely to cancel, with no repercussions, once the sets are widely listed for sale, at prices likely far below the winning bid, because they seller is not promising shipment within 40 days of the close of the auction.
I already said caveat emptor, and that they'll likely get some takers at $600. And that it's a rip-off at that price, this far ahead of release. And that the disclaimer in the bid terms is not going to protect the seller due to the time between today and 12/6.
So, I guess I'm saying there really isn't demand right now at $500, or above, regardless of what you or the seller think. At least not as measured by that auction, because the final price will not be binding on the buyer, and is likely to be canceled when the buyer sees what the sets are actually worth, long before the seller has them in hand to ship. If the buyer wants a refund, the buyer will get one. Period.
That is the point of all of my posts on this subject.
What is the difference between "aspirational" and "testing the waters"?
And the OPs point remains the 14 bids leading to $495 bid not the BIN. At least 2 people are willing to pay $490+
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
And it's like you didn't even read any of my posts.
I didn't say it was aspirational. I said it was testing the waters.
And that it was already far above what the actual value is likely to be.
And that the seller as also offering the sets as BIN for $600.
And that whoever ends up winning, at whatever price, is very likely to cancel, with no repercussions, once the sets are widely listed for sale, at prices likely far below the winning bid, because they seller is not promising shipment within 40 days of the close of the auction.
I already said caveat emptor, and that they'll likely get some takers at $600. And that it's a rip-off at that price, this far ahead of release. And that the disclaimer in the bid terms is not going to protect the seller due to the time between today and 12/6.
So, I guess I'm saying there really isn't demand right now at $500, or above, regardless of what you or the seller think. At least not as measured by that auction, because the final price will not be binding on the buyer, and is likely to be canceled when the buyer sees what the sets are actually worth, long before the seller has them in hand to ship. If the buyer wants a refund, the buyer will get one. Period.
That is the point of all of my posts on this subject.
What is the difference between "aspirational" and "testing the waters"?
And the OPs point regains the 14 bids leading to $495 bid not the BIN. At least 2 people are selling to pay $490+
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
And it's like you didn't even read any of my posts.
I didn't say it was aspirational. I said it was testing the waters.
And that it was already far above what the actual value is likely to be.
And that the seller as also offering the sets as BIN for $600.
And that whoever ends up winning, at whatever price, is very likely to cancel, with no repercussions, once the sets are widely listed for sale, at prices likely far below the winning bid, because they seller is not promising shipment within 40 days of the close of the auction.
I already said caveat emptor, and that they'll likely get some takers at $600. And that it's a rip-off at that price, this far ahead of release. And that the disclaimer in the bid terms is not going to protect the seller due to the time between today and 12/6.
So, I guess I'm saying there really isn't demand right now at $500, or above, regardless of what you or the seller think. At least not as measured by that auction, because the final price will not be binding on the buyer, and is likely to be canceled when the buyer sees what the sets are actually worth, long before the seller has them in hand to ship. If the buyer wants a refund, the buyer will get one. Period.
That is the point of all of my posts on this subject.
What is the difference between "aspirational" and "testing the waters"?
And the OPs point regains the 14 bids leading to $495 bid not the BIN. At least 2 people are selling to pay $490+
Back on ignore..
Ignore all you want. That's your choice, and will allow all of us to miss out on uninformed posts from you. To me, "aspirational," your word, not mine, would mean throwing them up for an unreasonable price to see if you get any takers. "Testing the waters," OTOH, would be having an auction more than a month before the on-sale date, when you don't actually have anything to sell, to see where the bidding goes.
Either way, as I have now said repeatedly, neither means anything in a world where buyers are not bound. While at least 2 people might be willing to pay $500+ today, neither of them might be willing to follow through, and they won't have to, if the sets become widely available for less than $400 before the seller can deliver.
P.S. That $380 sale you posted is right around where I predicted these might be. So, don't hold your breath waiting for people to follow through on $530 and $550 sales when they see the sets widely available for between $350-400 before they receive a shipping notice from the seller.
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys are early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
And it's like you didn't even read any of my posts.
I didn't say it was aspirational. I said it was testing the waters.
And that it was already far above what the actual value is likely to be.
And that the seller as also offering the sets as BIN for $600.
And that whoever ends up winning, at whatever price, is very likely to cancel, with no repercussions, once the sets are widely listed for sale, at prices likely far below the winning bid, because they seller is not promising shipment within 40 days of the close of the auction.
I already said caveat emptor, and that they'll likely get some takers at $600. And that it's a rip-off at that price, this far ahead of release. And that the disclaimer in the bid terms is not going to protect the seller due to the time between today and 12/6.
So, I guess I'm saying there really isn't demand right now at $500, or above, regardless of what you or the seller think. At least not as measured by that auction, because the final price will not be binding on the buyer, and is likely to be canceled when the buyer sees what the sets are actually worth, long before the seller has them in hand to ship. If the buyer wants a refund, the buyer will get one. Period.
That is the point of all of my posts on this subject.
What is the difference between "aspirational" and "testing the waters"?
And the OPs point regains the 14 bids leading to $495 bid not the BIN. At least 2 people are selling to pay $490+
Back on ignore..
Took you long enough!!😂🤣
Attaboy Freddie! No thread is complete without a little sideline cheering from you. Whatsamatter? Not enough action with VB 4 to keep you occupied? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
By the way, "ignore" means actually "ignore." Not commenting on "ignores."
I'm continuing to carry an extra sub or two, can always cut back. I have quality concerns as with the American Liberty coins and some of the other Morgan and Peace coins and others, so I'd like to have a back up set. Also if the USM did cut back subs on these (as they did with orders they had accepted for the AWQ 3 roll sets) I have a cushion.
Comments
I'm surprised that ebay allows presales for items not available withing 60 days.
You are unable to post tracking number once the listing disappears from your 90 day history.
You are correct in thinking that you should send buyer tracking number by email.
Moving forward it is best not to list an item unless you will receive it within 30 days from sale date.😎
I don't like to pre-sale anything. Too much can go wrong and there's no real advantage. If they don't sell out or the price doesn't jump, your buyer will just cancel.
I'm hoping that doesn't happen but if so it'll be a lesson learned. This pre-sale was a reaction to not pre-selling any of my 10 CC and O 2021 Morgans and watching those prices drop lol.
Buyer can't cancel or request a return after 90 days so this is an advantage for you the seller in this case. However, Ebay probably gave you a strike for not posting tracking information within their required time frame😉
They can just issue a charge back. As I said, there's no real advantage to it.
It appears, unless the item is shipped within 40 business days, it's against ebay policy
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/listing-policies/presale-policy?id=4252&st=3&pos=1&query=Presale policy&intent=presale policy&lucenceai=lucenceai&docId=HELP1252
Oops…. I’m sure they have bigger violations of other policies for numismatic listings besides mine that go without notice and/or discipline so I doubt any fuss will be made over my accidental transgression.
Still, I don’t think I’ll pre-sell anything going forward given what has been mentioned in this and prior posts and appreciate the info from everyone.
Reverse proof subscription is available right now. 9:33 Eastern time
Still available at 1:57 Eastern time
In learning from this site, I’ve seen several members speak to the lack of numismatic value with respect to some of the grading service practices. Well, much of this thread was of zero numismatic value.
On topic, what I see as an opportunity for the mint is pairing with a grading service to offer mint labeled slabbed coins. Maybe that would give them enough to go back to what I consider appropriate packaging. My 2012 Silver Eagle reverse proof set came in packaging I’d consider commensurate with pricing. The cheap cardboard box I do not.
NEVER going to happen. It might not be obvious, but the customers the Mint cares about the most are the mega dealers, not individual collectors. At the ANA show, you would have been impressed by the sight of crates of newly issued Morgan, Peace, and High Relief Liberty Gold and Silver being moved under the watchful eyes of guards directly to NGC and PCGS for FDOI grading while the public stood in line to buy their limit allocations.
And what you are suggesting would directly compete with them. You presently have your choice of dealers, grading services, labels, etc. And can always create your own at the grading service of your choosing.
The Mint would absolutely never get between its largest, best customers and their customers by offering an "official" graded product that competes with them. The most juice in the game today is the markup dealers get on graded coins. Not OGP. The Mint is going to let them keep it, since the Mint already gets to mark up precious metals by a pretty significant percentage.
Yeah, right. They love them so much they direct market themselves and give the dealers a 10% wholesale discount.
You might also look at the small mark-up the Mint is allowed for bullion coins as opposed to collector coins.
Facts matter.
Yes. Facts matter. The Mint does not directly sell bullion to the public at all. Fact.
The reason those markups are small is because the program was designed, by Congress, to make precious metals available to the investing public at a price that reflects precious metal value and production and distribution costs. Fact. Not to provide a numismatic premium to the Treasury. Fact. Because the Mint doesn't sell directly to the public, it cannot control retail prices. Fact. But, again, they are not competing with dealers. They are merely wholesaling to them. Fact.
And yes, part of their mandate is to sell numismatic items to the public, so they do it. But, as you helpfully point out, they give bulk purchasers a discount not available to the public, in order to give them a margin to be able to sell at the same price as the Mint and still make a few bucks. Fact.
And yet, that ~10% margin pales in comparison to what dealers make in marking up graded coins. So they can't really complain, because the Mint has to do what they have to do with respect to selling seriously marked up numismatic items to the public, and dealers cannot possibly make a ton of money selling OGP Mint product. Fact.
Nowadays the markup on ALL numismatic offerings from the Mint is the exact opposite of "small." Fact. Base metal. Precious metal. Doesn't matter. Fact.
And this isn't to screw anyone, retail collector or dealer. This is just to capture market value, rather than allowing flippers to capture it. Since the market is, by definition, what people are willing to pay, there is simply no reason to screw taxpayers while creating a windfall for whoever can successfully slam the website. Fact.
The Mint got into the graded coin business once, for the Dawn and Dusk Eagles. Fact. And, for those, the only place to get them was SB, so they were not competing with dealers on those, since they were not made available to dealers, other than by buying them at public auction, along with the public. Fact.
That was a once in a lifetime special deal. If you think the Mint would dare interfere with the symbiosis between themselves and their best customers, by ever competing with them in the slabbed coin business, I'd love to see a fact backing that up. Just one.
But, thanks for playing. I can always count on you to come in with a comment, no matter how ill informed, whenever I post. All I'm waiting for now is Freddie's admiring "Like" or "Agree" to your post, along with a comment followed by a few laughing emojis. My breath is baited.
The irony of NEVER with respect to prudent financial decisions by any branch of the US Gov’t.
You changed the point from graded collector coins to bullion. Fact. Your original statement was about collector coins in slabs. Fact. The Mint direct markets collector coins raw. Fact.
You complained about Mint mark ups of bullion ("by a pretty significant percentage"). Fact. Note you about the mark upside of bullion are actually small.
At least try to be consistent to YOUR OWN points.
Looks like the children need to be put in the corner for a time out.
BST references available on request
No I didn't. I responded to your post, point by point. Small markups on bullion. Direct retailing of numismatic items to the public, with a modest discount to bulk purchases. The whole post.
Maybe read a little more carefully. I wasn't complaining about anything. I was pointing out that the Mint enjoys large markups on precious metals.
In case it wasn't clear in context, I was referring to precious metals in numismatic items, not bullion. The point was that the Mint gets it markup on the products themselves.
Precious metals and, to a lesser degree, base metal items. Dealers make their money by marking up graded coins, not OGP. It's a system that works well for both of them, and the Mint has never even hinted that it is going to compete with its best customers, the dealers, in that space.
The stars!!! ******************
Available again at 10:00 Eastern.
Check out this current eBay auction for an NGC PF70 FDOI PreSale.
Is this an early sign of things to come?
16 bids with a little over 3 days to go......................
eBay Link
Modern crap bullion coins. Overpriced. It's official in my shop
IMO, this RP set will be the winner pick of the year - as the most exciting offering by the US Mint (and that's not really saying much!).
Most of the Mint's releases this year have been eh! (and my thoughts on the matter is not saying much either!)
BST references available on request
Not necessarily. As the listing notes, "prices may be volatile, and may change up or down."
That person is just sending up a trial balloon. They'll be lucky if they actually get their price, since the listing is too far out to be enforceable, and the price from the Big Boys will almost certainly be lower than where the listing ends up closing.
The best current guide is where the first two releases ended up, i.e., less than double issue price, or around $350 for this set. Of course, the final determinant will be how they grade, and no one will know that until the Big Boys get their Advance Releases and see the results.
FDOI usually has to be a big guy.
December for me.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Release Date Moved Up to November 9 for the Balitmore Show.
Good catch, @djm ...............was scheduled for November 14th.
Mint Link
Yes, I'm aware. And, I wasn't even talking about FDOI. I was talking about Advance Release.
Not because of whatever premium that might command on the label but because, as we all know, those coins are not made any differently, but they are delivered to eligible Big Boys weeks in advance. That allows them to go to TPGs, again, weeks in advance, giving the Big Boys an early view into grading.
Which is exactly what produced gobs of slabbed 70s offered for pre-sale weeks ahead of the official release for the first two releases. Expect the same to happen again.
But, it hasn't happened yet. So, one dude throwing one set on eBay to see what happens is indicative of nothing.
Especially because he is not guaranteeing delivery within his 40 day pre-sale window, so he won't be able to hold the winner to their bid when they inevitably cancel after seeing where the sets will actually be offered for sale once the Big Boys know what their 70 rate is going to be.
The listing you responded to was FDOI
So what? While you said "FDOI usually has to be a big guy," that's not literally always the case. If I was stupid enough to think the buyer would be held to the final bid, I, too, could offer FDOIs for pre-sale now, and then buy as many as I want for delivery between 12/6 and 12/9. And I'm the furthest thing from a Big Boy.
The bottom line is that someone is testing the waters early. It's not indicative of anything, and is most likely not someone who has access to Advance Release inventory.
They are offering the sets as a BIN for $600, which, based on the first two releases, is very optimistic and a total ripoff. All indications are that will be above TV prices, so it's really a rip-off for eBay.
But, as with everything else, caveat emptor, and I'm sure they'll get some takers. If the 70 rate is similar to the first two releases, I think sets will be widely available for between $350-400, and on TV for around $500. As I said before, if the RPs don't grade as well as the others, all bets are off. Which is why you are not yet seeing them widely available from the Big Boys. Not at $350, and not at $600.
FDOI really looks like the new First Strike, so I don't think it carries the premium it once did. For people who actually chase such things, Advance Release goes for a premium, since the Mint actually limits the number of coins with the designation. There is no such limit on FDOI, since the Big Boys can get as many as they want.
Here we go again. the majority of their posts are as worthless as a cat fight. But good enough for a few laughs.
And comments about worthless posts would be even more worthless. How's the view from the bottom of the barrel?
It's like you didn't even look at the listing. It has 14 bids. The point of the OP was there was demand up to $500 in the premarket. It is not simply an aspirational listing.
And it's like you didn't even read any of my posts.
I didn't say it was aspirational. I said it was testing the waters.
And that it was already far above what the actual value is likely to be.
And that the seller as also offering the sets as BIN for $600.
And that whoever ends up winning, at whatever price, is very likely to cancel, with no repercussions, once the sets are widely listed for sale, at prices likely far below the winning bid, because they seller is not promising shipment within 40 days of the close of the auction.
I already said caveat emptor, and that they'll likely get some takers at $600. And that it's a rip-off at that price, this far ahead of release. And that the disclaimer in the bid terms is not going to protect the seller due to the time between today and 12/6.
So, I guess I'm saying there really isn't demand right now at $500, or above, regardless of what you or the seller think. At least not as measured by that auction, because the final price will not be binding on the buyer, and is likely to be canceled when the buyer sees what the sets are actually worth, long before the seller has them in hand to ship. If the buyer wants a refund, the buyer will get one. Period.
That is the point of all of my posts on this subject.
What is the difference between "aspirational" and "testing the waters"?
And the OPs point remains the 14 bids leading to $495 bid not the BIN. At least 2 people are willing to pay $490+
Back on ignore..
Took you long enough!!😂🤣
BST references available on request
Ignore all you want. That's your choice, and will allow all of us to miss out on uninformed posts from you. To me, "aspirational," your word, not mine, would mean throwing them up for an unreasonable price to see if you get any takers. "Testing the waters," OTOH, would be having an auction more than a month before the on-sale date, when you don't actually have anything to sell, to see where the bidding goes.
Either way, as I have now said repeatedly, neither means anything in a world where buyers are not bound. While at least 2 people might be willing to pay $500+ today, neither of them might be willing to follow through, and they won't have to, if the sets become widely available for less than $400 before the seller can deliver.
P.S. That $380 sale you posted is right around where I predicted these might be. So, don't hold your breath waiting for people to follow through on $530 and $550 sales when they see the sets widely available for between $350-400 before they receive a shipping notice from the seller.
Attaboy Freddie! No thread is complete without a little sideline cheering from you. Whatsamatter? Not enough action with VB 4 to keep you occupied? 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣
By the way, "ignore" means actually "ignore." Not commenting on "ignores."
I'm continuing to carry an extra sub or two, can always cut back. I have quality concerns as with the American Liberty coins and some of the other Morgan and Peace coins and others, so I'd like to have a back up set. Also if the USM did cut back subs on these (as they did with orders they had accepted for the AWQ 3 roll sets) I have a cushion.
What is the mintage numbers for the reverse proof set going to be...I'm not seeing it on the Mint's website.
Right now, I'm in for 7 sets...across two accounts...but I may cut that back to 4 or 5.
Oh wait...is it 250,000 sets?
Yes, 250,000
@RichR
250k sets looks right. I just called to confirm I still have my five sets coming and was told they will be here by 11.9.
So...these go on sale Thursday, 11/09...which seems a bit odd...a Thursday.
So I guess any changes to your subscription orders should probably be the prior Friday, 11/3...or maybe Monday 11/6 at the absolue latest?
Thursday used to be the most common release day. That's why the bullion pricing is redone Wednesday.
I just dumped 2 of my perscriptions today they might show up tomorrow as availabe.
Going off your meds?