@RichR said:
So...these go on sale Thursday, 11/09...which seems a bit odd...a Thursday.
So I guess any changes to your subscription orders should probably be the prior Friday, 11/3...or maybe Monday 11/6 at the absolue latest?
As @djm pointed out, it's keyed to the opening of the Whitman show in Baltimore. Show labels, excitement at the Mint booth, etc. Day of the week doesn't matter. It just happens to be when the show is opening.
@coiner said:
I guess the race to the bottom for the Rev Proofs has already begun for graded 70s on eBay. And they aren’t even released yet.
The business term is "price discovery". All the pricing at this point is speculative. If the RP has the production problems of the 2021D (which I doubt), then these prices will be bargains. If demand is low, the prices will look high.
[The business term is "price discovery". All the pricing at this point is speculative. If the RP has the production problems of the 2021D (which I doubt), then these prices will be bargains. If demand is low, the prices will look high.]
But what does "price discovery" think about 250,000???
@RichR said:
[The business term is "price discovery". All the pricing at this point is speculative. If the RP has the production problems of the 2021D (which I doubt), then these prices will be bargains. If demand is low, the prices will look high.]
But what does "price discovery" think about 250,000???
Likely the same thing it thought about 275K and 400K.
Assuming these grade 70s at the same rate as the others, expect 70s to go for around 2x issue price, which seems to work well for everyone.
Mint gets a sell out. Dealers get a substantial markup over cost, and collectors get all they want at a price that is comparable to what they could do on their own, with zero grading risk.
Demand is not going to be low, and they will sell out at 250K. The only wildcard is the grading. As more dealers offer them for sale, you'll know exactly how grading is going. Well before release. Just like with the last two issues.
@RichR said:
[The business term is "price discovery". All the pricing at this point is speculative. If the RP has the production problems of the 2021D (which I doubt), then these prices will be bargains. If demand is low, the prices will look high.]
But what does "price discovery" think about 250,000???
Clearly, the people buying thinks that is sufficiently low to make a premium appropriate to be paid in advance. The people NOT buying at those prices probably think otherwise.
FWIW I have not cut the subscriptions in any of my accounts.
@GiveMeProof said:
Just ordered from Pinehurst, PCGS PR70 FDOI, $399. They're usually in the ballpark.
I guess now that we are a month away, Pinehurst felt it was OK to publish their prices and list the Reverse Proof sets for presale. I see PCGS has special labels for the set, kinda cool. I think I may just stick with the First Strike flag label. What do others think?
I am with you Goldbully. Just ordered mine from Pinehurst. I like the Peace / Morgan label shown above. Got the same for the Morgan & Peace uncirs and proof for a complete 2023 set.. better than taking chance on raw. Will keep my two raw subscription for the grandkids or flip if worthwhile to offset my expenditures.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
@GiveMeProof said:
Just ordered from Pinehurst, PCGS PR70 FDOI, $399. They're usually in the ballpark.
I guess now that we are a month away, Pinehurst felt it was OK to publish their prices and list the Reverse Proof sets for presale. I see PCGS has special labels for the set, kinda cool. I think I may just stick with the First Strike flag label. What do others think?
Given that they all come in 2 coin sets, whichever you prefer.
I plan on listing all my extra mint issue coins for 2023 after the reverse proof set is released. All the coins that I will be listing are still in their sealed boxes except for one. I don't see a huge profit margin here selling them late in the year but anything above cost is good for me. 🙂🙃🙂
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Is there any chance that one of the graders will issue TWO COIN Holders for this SET?
I know there could be two different grades issued but it would be nice to see both coins in one larger holder as has been done for other sets.
There's a always a chance. If so, it's likely to be an exclusive for the Big Boys, so that would be the first place to look. If they're available to us common folk, you can be sure we will be told when the time comes.
@HoneyMarket said:
[...]
Thank-you for your prompt responses
I was curious, so I called PCGS CS about this.
The rep I spoke with said:
~ the two-coin holders are still available;
~ they are compatible with any coins that will 'fit'. IOW, the coins do not have to be a "set";
~ they are available to 'collectors club' members. You just have to ask for it;
~ while dated, these are still the instructions.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
I prefer the uncs over the proofs because I am not a huge fan of the modern laser-etched frost. I feel that it obscures or removes some of the details.
With the RPs, it's the empty fields that will be etched and the design will be left unadulterated.
@Goldbully said:
LCR selling the graded sets at $379/set for NGC PF70 FDOI.
>
That is good price. When they're sold out at the mint we should see higher prices.
Under $200, 5/household limit , 250k mintage on popular series' in never before issued RP. Looks like a winner.
As always, in case of sell out, I would expect an initial bump followed by a longer term decline. Nothing (commems) the Mint has produced in mintages of 250,000 has ever behaved differently. The 2021 issues have held up pretty well, but are still lower than immediately after release. And those benefit from the production problems making the 70s scarcer than usual.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
Dude, are you ever going to learn? Ignore means don't respond. Your responses are the perfect definition of Insanity......repetitive action expecting a different result. 🙄
In his mind he is always right and you will never convince him otherwise.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
Dude, are you ever going to learn? Ignore means don't respond. Your responses are the perfect definition of Insanity......repetitive action expecting a different result. 🙄
In his mind he is always right and you will never convince him otherwise.
Stop scratching the itch brother!😂🤣
Yes, mother. But it's rather hard to let a blatant lie just lay there.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
Dude, are you ever going to learn? Ignore means don't respond. Your responses are the perfect definition of Insanity......repetitive action expecting a different result. 🙄
In his mind he is always right and you will never convince him otherwise.
Stop scratching the itch brother!😂🤣
Yes, mother. But it's rather hard to let a blatant lie just lay there.
Ok. You are no better. You do you. You both deserve each other.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
Dude, are you ever going to learn? Ignore means don't respond. Your responses are the perfect definition of Insanity......repetitive action expecting a different result. 🙄
In his mind he is always right and you will never convince him otherwise.
Stop scratching the itch brother!😂🤣
Yes, mother. But it's rather hard to let a blatant lie just lay there.
Ok. You are no better. You do you. You both deserve each other.
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
You said "price discovery." I said "no such thing in a pre-sale that far out on eBay." No lie. No price discovery. No early score by that seller. Nothing. Just an out of line final sale price in an auction that will be canceled weeks before the seller can fulfill the order.
That is good price. When they're sold out at the mint we should see higher prices.
Under $200, 5/household limit , 250k mintage on popular series' in never before issued RP. Looks like a winner.
Not this time, because they Big Boys don't have to go into the secondary market to secure inventory after the Mint sells out. Did that happen after the Mint sold out 275K of each unc.? If not, it won't be happening here.
These prices are as reasonable as they are because dealers are getting a very high percentage of 70s back from their Advance Releases, so they can project what they are going to get from the balance of their orders, and because these cost next to nothing to grade in bulk.
The dealers are making a 100% markup, on volume. It's a win-win for everyone at these prices, and you won't see higher prices later.
This time, @jmlanzaf is right. 250K is plenty to absorb. There is definitely demand, and the number is low enough that the prices won't collapse.
But, the clever way the Mint is distributing these, through subscriptions with relatively low individual limits, and then separately to dealers, guarantees no easy flip for amateurs, and no pop after sell out, since everyone who wants/needs these gets them in OGP from the source at issue price. And, there is no flip for anyone else, because regular folk can't make enough money with graded sets going for $350-400 to even take a shot.
@Vasanti said:
All 5 of my 2023-S Peace dollars came back as PR69. On everything else, 2 out of every 5 coins are coming back as 69s and not 70s. Man I'm unlucky.
You could have bought the sets already graded PR70DCAM First Strikes from L & C Coin for $285 for the set
@Vasanti said:
All 5 of my 2023-S Peace dollars came back as PR69. On everything else, 2 out of every 5 coins are coming back as 69s and not 70s. Man I'm unlucky.
Sorry, that is a bit unlucky.
Almost 17% of the proof 2023-S Peace $1's are graded 69 now.
7.5% of the proof 2023-S Morgan $1's are graded 69.
@Vasanti said:
All 5 of my 2023-S Peace dollars came back as PR69. On everything else, 2 out of every 5 coins are coming back as 69s and not 70s. Man I'm unlucky.
You could have bought the sets already graded PR70DCAM First Strikes from L & C Coin for $285 for the set
So now that the price, for the set, is set - essentially $92.50 per coin for comparison purposes.
And seeing that Pinehurst is guaranteeing a PR70 at $349 (or $399 for FDOI label - )
Decisions, Decisions, to ponder lie ahead!
It will be interesting to see what this newly posted price will do to the eBay pre-sale amounts.
Currently the low bar is @ $255 - and that's not even a guarantee that you'll get a seal US Mint box - probably the leftovers after the seller goes through their purchase to sell off the undesirables.
I just canceled my 5 sets thru the subscription. The deciding factor for me was that they’re still available at the mint site. Too much risk for a chance at a small profit.
@mlittle said:
Why would a reverse proof cost $12.50 more than a proof? Is it harder for the Mint to make?
Because it's more special, a little more rare, and the market will support it. None of these coins are priced based on the cost of production.
They will sell out at $185 as surely as they would at $160, so why should they leave the $25 on the table? Would you? This is an extra $6.25 million for the US Treasury.
@mlittle said:
Why would a reverse proof cost $12.50 more than a proof? Is it harder for the Mint to make?
Because it's more special, a little more rare, and the market will support it. None of these coins are priced based on the cost of production.
They will sell out at $185 as surely as they would at $160, so why should they leave the $25 on the table? Would you? This is an extra $6.25 million for the US Treasury.
No. It is due to fewer units
covering development costs.
Comments
As @djm pointed out, it's keyed to the opening of the Whitman show in Baltimore. Show labels, excitement at the Mint booth, etc. Day of the week doesn't matter. It just happens to be when the show is opening.
I guess the race to the bottom for the Rev Proofs has already begun for graded 70s on eBay. And they aren’t even released yet.
The business term is "price discovery". All the pricing at this point is speculative. If the RP has the production problems of the 2021D (which I doubt), then these prices will be bargains. If demand is low, the prices will look high.
[The business term is "price discovery". All the pricing at this point is speculative. If the RP has the production problems of the 2021D (which I doubt), then these prices will be bargains. If demand is low, the prices will look high.]
But what does "price discovery" think about 250,000???
Likely the same thing it thought about 275K and 400K.
Assuming these grade 70s at the same rate as the others, expect 70s to go for around 2x issue price, which seems to work well for everyone.
Mint gets a sell out. Dealers get a substantial markup over cost, and collectors get all they want at a price that is comparable to what they could do on their own, with zero grading risk.
Demand is not going to be low, and they will sell out at 250K. The only wildcard is the grading. As more dealers offer them for sale, you'll know exactly how grading is going. Well before release. Just like with the last two issues.
Clearly, the people buying thinks that is sufficiently low to make a premium appropriate to be paid in advance. The people NOT buying at those prices probably think otherwise.
FWIW I have not cut the subscriptions in any of my accounts.
Anybody shopping can get sets via subscription right now from the mint…..
As I indicated the other day...I rarely if ever sell anything...and I'm currently in for 7 sets.
I might ultimately reduce that to 5 sets...I will need to ponder over it.
Not if you're at the HHL and not if you want graded 70s.
Just ordered from Pinehurst, PCGS PR70 FDOI, $399. They're usually in the ballpark.
I guess now that we are a month away, Pinehurst felt it was OK to publish their prices and list the Reverse Proof sets for presale. I see PCGS has special labels for the set, kinda cool. I think I may just stick with the First Strike flag label. What do others think?
I am with you Goldbully. Just ordered mine from Pinehurst. I like the Peace / Morgan label shown above. Got the same for the Morgan & Peace uncirs and proof for a complete 2023 set.. better than taking chance on raw. Will keep my two raw subscription for the grandkids or flip if worthwhile to offset my expenditures.
Given that they all come in 2 coin sets, whichever you prefer.
LCR selling the graded sets at $379/set for NGC PF70 FDOI.
LCR Link
Right where I thought it would be. @jmlanzaf -- still think those eBay sales from last week meant anything, or won't be canceled?
Naïve Question Alert:
Is there any chance that one of the graders will issue TWO COIN Holders for this SET?
I know there could be two different grades issued but it would be nice to see both coins in one larger holder as has been done for other sets.
BST references available on request
I plan on listing all my extra mint issue coins for 2023 after the reverse proof set is released. All the coins that I will be listing are still in their sealed boxes except for one. I don't see a huge profit margin here selling them late in the year but anything above cost is good for me. 🙂🙃🙂
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
There's a always a chance. If so, it's likely to be an exclusive for the Big Boys, so that would be the first place to look. If they're available to us common folk, you can be sure we will be told when the time comes.
I think that PCGS still offers this as an option for any coins that will 'fit'. IIRC, it was available to 'collectors club' members.
Recent FS example:
Source: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325432246470
The last time I inquired, the CS rep directed me to these instructions. (Yes, I know that it is an older article, but this is where they sent me.)
If you are interested, it might be worth a telephone call to CS.
@NJCoin @MetroD
Thank-you for your prompt responses
BST references available on request
You should actually read what I write. Many of the listings I posted were in this same price range. Look back and see.
I will send you 10 sets of PCGS 70s for free if you can find any comment from me that said anything other than this was a period of price discovery.
Please don't tag me anymore. It interrupts my ignore.
I was curious, so I called PCGS CS about this.
The rep I spoke with said:
~ the two-coin holders are still available;
~ they are compatible with any coins that will 'fit'. IOW, the coins do not have to be a "set";
~ they are available to 'collectors club' members. You just have to ask for it;
~ while dated, these are still the instructions.
@jmlanzaf -- please define "price discovery." Where I come from, fictitious prices that can be canceled later without penalty, actually discover nothing.
That was my point when that first auction with those stupid prices was posted, while you were prattling on about price discovery. Since eBay does not enforce pre-sales more than 40 days out, what you saw as price discovery I viewed as garbage. I said price discovery would not occur until the Big Boys got their Advance Releases back, and had visibility into how grading would go.
And, guess what? That's EXACTLY what happened, and real prices are coming in right where I thought they would, between $350-400. Those pre-sales at $600+ are as surely going to be canceled by the buyers as they would be by the sellers if the 70 grade through rate was at a point where Pinehurst was now pre-selling at $1,000+.
In other words, it wasn't price discovery. It was nothing. Pre-sales that will not be enforced pursuant to the T&Cs of the selling platform are not pre-sales, and therefore cannot constitute price discovery.
But, as always, thanks for mansplaining things to me, and for lecturing me on how to read your posts. The point of your posts was that people were getting $600+ through early price discovery. They were not, regardless of the fact that other examples showed the price going down.
The price is between $350-400 from reputable Big Boy sellers, just like I said it would be. No one is going to get $600+. Not even on TV, other than maybe for a special label like Advance Release, or Ultra Break Super Duper Titanium Hologram. Or maybe in VB 5 for $999.
Unless, of course, an early buyer does not realize that they can cancel without penalty. But, that's not price discovery. That's just sheer ignorance x2. Once for playing in the first place, that far out with no buyer protection if things went the other way, and then again for not canceling.
Now you can go back to ignoring me, if you can control yourself and resist responding.
I think I'm going to like the RPs.
I prefer the uncs over the proofs because I am not a huge fan of the modern laser-etched frost. I feel that it obscures or removes some of the details.
With the RPs, it's the empty fields that will be etched and the design will be left unadulterated.
That is good price. When they're sold out at the mint we should see higher prices.
Under $200, 5/household limit , 250k mintage on popular series' in never before issued RP. Looks like a winner.
As always, in case of sell out, I would expect an initial bump followed by a longer term decline. Nothing (commems) the Mint has produced in mintages of 250,000 has ever behaved differently. The 2021 issues have held up pretty well, but are still lower than immediately after release. And those benefit from the production problems making the 70s scarcer than usual.
Don't lie and tell me what you think I said. Just go back and look. The truth doesn't remotely resemble your lies.
Dude, are you ever going to learn? Ignore means don't respond. Your responses are the perfect definition of Insanity......repetitive action expecting a different result. 🙄
In his mind he is always right and you will never convince him otherwise.
Stop scratching the itch brother!😂🤣
Yes, mother. But it's rather hard to let a blatant lie just lay there.
Ok. You are no better. You do you. You both deserve each other.
I am going to listen to my own advice.🙄
Wow! Just...wow!
You said "price discovery." I said "no such thing in a pre-sale that far out on eBay." No lie. No price discovery. No early score by that seller. Nothing. Just an out of line final sale price in an auction that will be canceled weeks before the seller can fulfill the order.
Not this time, because they Big Boys don't have to go into the secondary market to secure inventory after the Mint sells out. Did that happen after the Mint sold out 275K of each unc.? If not, it won't be happening here.
These prices are as reasonable as they are because dealers are getting a very high percentage of 70s back from their Advance Releases, so they can project what they are going to get from the balance of their orders, and because these cost next to nothing to grade in bulk.
The dealers are making a 100% markup, on volume. It's a win-win for everyone at these prices, and you won't see higher prices later.
This time, @jmlanzaf is right. 250K is plenty to absorb. There is definitely demand, and the number is low enough that the prices won't collapse.
But, the clever way the Mint is distributing these, through subscriptions with relatively low individual limits, and then separately to dealers, guarantees no easy flip for amateurs, and no pop after sell out, since everyone who wants/needs these gets them in OGP from the source at issue price. And, there is no flip for anyone else, because regular folk can't make enough money with graded sets going for $350-400 to even take a shot.
It's time the two of you realize that the only ones who care about what you think are the two of you.
LOL LOL LOL
All 5 of my 2023-S Peace dollars came back as PR69. On everything else, 2 out of every 5 coins are coming back as 69s and not 70s. Man I'm unlucky.
You could have bought the sets already graded PR70DCAM First Strikes from L & C Coin for $285 for the set
Sorry, that is a bit unlucky.
Almost 17% of the proof 2023-S Peace $1's are graded 69 now.
7.5% of the proof 2023-S Morgan $1's are graded 69.
Yeah, I know. I like rolling my own.
BST references available on request
Pinehurst Presale - 2023-S Reverse Proof $1 Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar 2pc Set NGC PF70 ER Blue Label
$349.01 with CC
Pinehurst Link
Pinehurst Presale - 2023-S Reverse Proof $1 Morgan and Peace Silver Dollar 2pc Set PCGS PR70 Blue Label
$349.01 with CC
Add flag label and FDOI...$399 with CC
Pinehurst Link
And, of course, you.
Lmfao
price posted
$185
So now that the price, for the set, is set - essentially $92.50 per coin for comparison purposes.
And seeing that Pinehurst is guaranteeing a PR70 at $349 (or $399 for FDOI label -
)
Decisions, Decisions, to ponder lie ahead!
It will be interesting to see what this newly posted price will do to the eBay pre-sale amounts.
Currently the low bar is @ $255 - and that's not even a guarantee that you'll get a seal US Mint box - probably the leftovers after the seller goes through their purchase to sell off the undesirables.
BST references available on request
I just canceled my 5 sets thru the subscription. The deciding factor for me was that they’re still available at the mint site. Too much risk for a chance at a small profit.
I am in for 2 from the mint
Holding my original 5 until the 72 hour window before being locked in occurs.
There's a lot that can happen in the next three weeks.
I am the master of my domain.........for now.
Why would a reverse proof cost $12.50 more than a proof? Is it harder for the Mint to make?
Because it's more special, a little more rare, and the market will support it. None of these coins are priced based on the cost of production.
They will sell out at $185 as surely as they would at $160, so why should they leave the $25 on the table? Would you? This is an extra $6.25 million for the US Treasury.
No. It is due to fewer units
covering development costs.