Grading gold... 1882-CC 5$
Relaxn
Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
One of my biggest challenges collecting gold is finding marks like this acceptable... If it were a Barber Quarter this would be net graded or details...
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Relaxn
Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
Relaxn
Posts: 814 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
If it were a Barber quarter the metal wouldn't have been as soft and that probably wouldn't have happened.
Nice coin though!
Edit for numerous typos
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US Gold Showcase
Had an Indian 1914-D Half Eagle come back as scratched and it was not that prominent on the reverse. Hosts actually booted that one since they returned it without a slab even though request clearly stated I would have accepted details holder. Coin was sent in via my LCS. Maybe old CC;s get a little extra love, my 14-D got none.
BTW, it is still a nice coin!
Mark
i think they are giving that coin a pass because it has a lot going for it. the color, luster, and strike are quite remarkable.
It's got a scratch on it!
If you think this was a hard buy, wait till you try and sell it.
I don't care if it's this coin or a 2023 Lincoln cent, a scratch is a scratch, period
I have passed on many coins that were scratched and straight graded by all of the TPG services.
Just because the coin is somewhat rare it shouldn't get any free pass.
I know others will disagree with me, but when you go to sell it down the road, the first thing a dealer will tell you is "the coin has a scratch on it" and offer you peanuts!
IMO
63 CAC
Grading old gold is tough. I have an MS63 1915 $10 Indian that grades as MS63, I am a decent grader and I still can't figure out how it is not MS66. I have cracked it like 5 times - MS63 each time and it won't CAC. It drives me nuts, it is gorgeous. People say it may have an issue on the obverse at ( in the fields. I can't with it in hand see it. I guess I am just not good enough.
Was looking at the coin, wondering if it would go 64………..then saw the scratch.
It really is a nice coin but they really dinged it because of scratch.
If it wasn’t as nice looking and a cc, I could really see them detailing it! You know the scratch is pretty significant because they dropped the grade like a stone.
It really does show up well (excluding scratch)
The base, “old time grade” for the 1882-CC $5 gold is AU-55. It would be an AU-58, but the long scratch in back of Ms. Liberty’s neck pulls it down. If a third party grader really got nasty, they could give it a “details” grade for that. I don’t think that’s right, but it could happen.
Today, it’s probably an MS-62 or 63. I could not see a CAC sticker on it as a 63, but I’m not that active in the U.S. coin market these days.
no doubt the scratch is an issue. the op was wondering why it isn't a details coin and this is my speculation. i'm not saying it's a good buy or a bad buy. that depends on the price and alternatives.
if this coin was let's say an 1886-S it would probably get a details grade. but since it's an 1882-CC with only ~500 extant, i can understand it getting net graded.
I don't think the old time grade is different form the today grade. There is field and high point friction all over it. It still has 50% or so of it's mint surfaces so it is a 58 minus what ever you want to net it for the scratch. Gold is soft and CC's rare so MA sure but that looks like AU55 money to these eyes. I Would bet good money it is in an AU holder
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
So question-
Gold Collectors- Do you just swallow things like this? I understand how soft gold is... Really do.
How do you balance that mark vs the overall quality of the coin? How does that calculus look?
That’s a beauty of a coin!
I agree, pre-33 gold is a bear to grade. That would not look out of place in a 65 holder. Bizarre that the TruView shows the obverse first though. Don’t recall ever seeing that before.
I could see that coin in a 4 holder, easy, but imo the rim bumps and the neck hit preclude 65
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
The 1882-CC would be a hard pass for me.
At that price level (if not any) would be deal breaker for me. Especially dig, scratch like that. Don’t care what they grade it.
Two major digs directly in the center on the reverse eagle wing. Hit on the Indians neck, and the area in front of the Indians face. It’s not a 66
MS61 on the 1882-CC
The colors not right for unmolested Philly gold. It's been bonked and was net graded.
Professional Numismatist. "It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
No, I don’t swallow things like this! A problem coin is a problem coin, no matter how desirable the date or mm.
I wait until I get what I want. It will eventually come around unless you are looking for ultra rarities.
My advise is stay away from the problems and if you don’t get why now, you’ll definitely understand when sell time comes!
Peace.
Hard pass. You can do better. As for grade…58 with the slight friction but the services could easily call it a 60/61.
Latin American Collection
@Relaxn.... I agree with the grade, and that coin would be a pass for me.
@Clackamas1.... How visible is that strange 'abrasion' in front of her forehead?? Between that, the hit on the neck and eagle wing reverse, I believe 66 is out of the question. Cheers, RickO
With the scratch (a dealbreaker for me) on it would simply pass if offered to me at my table. Others might make offer but it wb considerably discounted. Would it even bring 50 pct CDN bid? However you slice it a tough sell.
If you lot view the Fairmont coins (this coin is in the Rhone set going off next month), you will see numerous examples like this - a but-for-that-one-mark-really-nice-coin. These coins were almost certainly in bags and got jostled around a time or two. Most of them also show some amount of bank vault dirt and are uncommonly original looking.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I have a question for those of you who know the answer.
If I were to send this coin back to PCGS for re-grade, 1st, would they put it in a details holder? 2nd, if they did, would they honor the grade guarantee and pay me the difference between the current grade and the details value? What would be my choices?
Very curious about this, I may have another coin that I believe to be a problem coin in a straight graded holder. I would just like to know the sequence of events that would take place.
You wouldn’t be submitting under regrade, it would be a guarantee resubmission and they would most definitely not be paying out. I’m not sure what the statistics are, but the occurrence of paying out on a guarantee claim is about as rare as hens teeth.
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
Wow, Good to know, Thanks Dan
I have collected a PCGS guarantee claim. I had a gold coin that had been toned with iodine. PCGS made good on it.
Thats good to know. I always wondered why more puttied or other artificially toned coins aren't sent back under guarantee resubmission, but nice to hear it worked out in your case. I've seen some gold where i’ve suspected iodine, but never seen a definitive example. Do you still have a picture of the coin by any chance?
Type Collector of U.S. Pre-33 Gold https://instagram.com/deplorable_dan Successful transactions with- @drfish, @Cladiator, @johnny010, @Pedzola, @PerryHall, @2windy2fish, @Ike1964, @JohnThePainter, @rpmsrpms, @REALGATOR
@breakdown so how do you balance that ultra original look vs just one mark away from being special?
When I was building my Indian set(s) I voiced frustration to the dealer who was helping me build the set because so many of the coins had that one gouge/dig etc
.. I got so frustrated that I stopped and went in a different direction for awhile. Many times the response would be without that dig the price would be X times higher or in a higher graded plastic.
I even emailed a few members here asking how do I accept these digs or marks? Do I have to accept them?
It's been an interesting learning curve. I am not blaming... I accepted the coins but it has been/is very interesting how some things with Gold are market acceptable...
Appreciate everyone's feedback. It has helped my resolve.
J
Relaxn
On your question about balance, I wish I knew. I have been collecting gold for about six years (since I sold off my Walkers and seated halves). Whole different world than silver because of the softness of the metal.
I would probably pass on the 82-CC you posted because of the scratch. But if you look at my half eagles, you will definitely see some marks in coins I would never have found acceptable in the silver sets I put together.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
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Question:
Is the iodine toned gold the one that looks like that orange ‘Cheetos’ color? If not, could you describe the look a little?
The ones I've seen have a more reddish orange color that is unusual for gold coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
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Sure appreciate the info!
I don’t think I’ve ran into this color yet.
What I ran into was on a $5 Lib. and it was a bright orange. Definitely looked like AT even though it was slabbed by one of the big 2, but I can’t remember which, as that’s been a few years ago.
When possible, I prefer my coins with that nice green gold tone!😉
Sometimes that’s just not possible, though.
Thanks again for bringing me up to speed on the Iodine.
I see the PCGS grade as a straight grade AU58. It could grade 60 but that grade is rarely assigned and this could be the exception.
The biggest challenge in collecting US Gold of interest is just finding examples with original surfaces. More often than not, a coin like this is "processed" in an effort to get a higher grade. In contrast, this one has what looks to be original surfaces with some marks that are difficult for you as well as many other collectors to accept.
You really need to think about what is important... CC gold like CC dollars are just not going to be perfect... rarely do they surface in a state that ignites all cylinders.
I do not see this as a hard pass unless it is priced at a stupid level. What is a reasonable price for an original coin with distracting issues as opposed to a coin that has been stripped of its history and DNA?
I would rather own this 1882-cc over a dipped out POS masquerading in a holder unworthy at an underserving grade.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Education 101, do you have a pic of a coin that you are describing? A picture tells a 1000 words.
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I believe this 1882-cc is certainly original, and this is what I like about Fairmont coins so much, as a lot of them really fit the bill as original and/or DOGs! And I believe people are willing to pay more for them, knowing this very fact.
Practically all old gold is going to have a certain amount of bag marks, some more so than others. Bag marks don’t bother me, even a certain amount on the cheek, which some people find intolerable.
What bothers me about this coin is it appears to be an actual scratch instead of bag mark. Given the choice between this coin and some ‘washed out’ shell, I too would choose this one in a heartbeat! The problem I have is some day one might have to convince a potential buyer this is not a scratch, but rather a bag mark, which I believe will be a hard sell. I know it would be with me if I was listening to a pitch.
Thus the reason I consider it a problem coin and would find another example rather than the potential hassle I might run into down the road.
It looks like it may be a staple scratch where someone was careless removing it from a 2"X2" stapled carboard holder. The best and safest way to remove a coin from this type of holder is to pierce the plastic window at the edge with a toothpick and the bend the holder over a soft surface like a towel. The window will easily tear and the coin will fall out.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
For me, the coin is fine but it depends on the price point. Assuming some discount from list price, the 58+ lists at $10,000, and down from there by steps I see 8,500, 8,000, 6,500. Conversely, going up the lists are 15,000, 20,000, 22,500, and 30,000.
This is key. You might not like it, but the price is the grade. If you pay EF money for a coin that really is EF in an AU holder, you are okay. If you pay AU money for it, you are probably scrambling if the price difference is great.