I was disappointed to get this email yesterday as well. As has been pointed out, this is a business. CACG will get a lot of marketing from RCTV. They are on from 12-6 on Saturday and Sunday. Everything they sell is at a huge markup, but it must work.
@BAJJERFAN said:
If that's legit I say what a waste of grading talent.
And you have to wonder who at cac is tasked with grading and finalizing these as that's a specialty many graders don't want to be doing? Or will optical machines be doing it?
@BAJJERFAN said:
If that's legit I say what a waste of grading talent.
And you have to wonder who at cac is tasked with grading and finalizing these as that's a specialty many graders don't want to be doing? Or will optical machines be doing it?
NGC and PCGS slab far more modern coins than classic coins with Eagles leading the way. But CACG offers the same service and this is a problem because...
Or are we supposed to be upset that RCTV is offering CACG coins this month instead of the PCGS and NGC coins they sold last month?
@jesbroken said:
I think that all the confusion is that some missed the OP's point and it had nothing to do with the sticker being on the inside or outside. It is a CAC stickered modern, which they had not done before.
Jim
But the real point is that it isn't a stickered modern. It's a modern graded by the new grading service. The sticker is not actually a sticker. It's a picture that is part of the slab. They never said all coins in their slabs would be PQ for the grade.
Anyone aware of the recent upticks in crime and inflation as well as the earthquake in the FIJI ISLANDS REGION? I'm not going to talk about flooding so don't get me started.
We all know which grading service is to blame so I'm not going there.
As was said RCTV pays for the grading which is all CACG is responsible for.
They are a grading service. The days of adding to the product are probably winding down?. Others could and should fill the niche. It's a low cost service once you have the personnel and equipment. A new service trading on JA's reputation. CACG will encounter many more issues than when they were only an add on service. What grades / versus their competitors for a similar coin and how will their final grade affect the final sales l price? what price coin do you send? Will anyone pay a few dollars more for modern coins? Too many questions at this point. Will they offer a guaranteed cross over grade? The quantity of coins coming in will be a factor re pricing, if their wait time is too long will it cost biz? The list goes on.
I'll wait/watch and judge the markets reaction. I'm agnostic. My only question is whether the market will be able to handle more tpg's in the next downturn?
@jmlanzaf said:
NGC and PCGS slab far more modern coins than classic coins with Eagles leading the way. But CACG offers the same service and this is a problem because...
Or are we supposed to be upset that RCTV is offering CACG coins this month instead of the PCGS and NGC coins they sold last month?
I think people are reacting that CACG is having a soft opening from a select group of individuals and it appears that RCTV was chosen as one of those select individuals. So a company that it appears, from what people have said in this thread, is known to take advantage of people was chosen to be one of the very first customers to CACG. RCTV has 4 different CACG offerings so I think people are just more disappointed that this is happening right out of the gate. If you hold CAC stickering and JA in extremely high opinion this could possibly make one re-evaluate their opinion.
@jmlanzaf said:
NGC and PCGS slab far more modern coins than classic coins with Eagles leading the way. But CACG offers the same service and this is a problem because...
Or are we supposed to be upset that RCTV is offering CACG coins this month instead of the PCGS and NGC coins they sold last month?
I think people are reacting that CACG is having a soft opening from a select group of individuals and it appears that RCTV was chosen as one of those select individuals. So a company that it appears, from what people have said in this thread, is known to take advantage of people was chosen to be one of the very first customers to CACG. RCTV has 4 different CACG offerings so I think people are just more disappointed that this is happening right out of the gate. If you hold CAC stickering and JA in extremely high opinion this could possibly make one re-evaluate their opinion.
They said from the beginning that investors in CACG are going to get to slab coins first. Whomever is routing these coins to RCTV for sale put up a pretty penny to invest and be first in line. You can bet those investors want to recoup their investment both through the company itself and through opportunities that ownership of that company provides them as far as priority grading.
@Vasanti said:
They said from the beginning that investors in CACG are going to get to slab coins first. Whomever is routing these coins to RCTV for sale put up a pretty penny to invest and be first in line. You can bet those investors want to recoup their investment both through the company itself and through opportunities that ownership of that company provides them as far as priority grading.
True which makes sense. While I don't care one way or another from everything I heard about JA this is not the sort of company I would have expected him to associate with. Granted, to be fair, he does not own CACG outright and he could have been adamantly opposed but his business partners did not feel the same. It seems some believe everything he does is to help the individual numismatist when the truth is probably much more nuanced.
@Vasanti said:
They said from the beginning that investors in CACG are going to get to slab coins first. Whomever is routing these coins to RCTV for sale put up a pretty penny to invest and be first in line. You can bet those investors want to recoup their investment both through the company itself and through opportunities that ownership of that company provides them as far as priority grading.
True which makes sense. While I don't care one way or another from everything I heard about JA this is not the sort of company I would have expected him to associate with. Granted, to be fair, he does not own CACG outright and he could have been adamantly opposed but his business partners did not feel the same. It seems some believe everything he does is to help the individual numismatist when the truth is probably much more nuanced.
He’s built an incredible brand and he’s cashing in on it. I don’t blame him a bit.
@jmlanzaf said:
NGC and PCGS slab far more modern coins than classic coins with Eagles leading the way. But CACG offers the same service and this is a problem because...
Or are we supposed to be upset that RCTV is offering CACG coins this month instead of the PCGS and NGC coins they sold last month?
I think people are reacting that CACG is having a soft opening from a select group of individuals and it appears that RCTV was chosen as one of those select individuals. So a company that it appears, from what people have said in this thread, is known to take advantage of people was chosen to be one of the very first customers to CACG. RCTV has 4 different CACG offerings so I think people are just more disappointed that this is happening right out of the gate. If you hold CAC stickering and JA in extremely high opinion this could possibly make one re-evaluate their opinion.
That may be what bothers you, but no one else had articulated that belief.
I just shake my head. I just don't get it, but that's ok. If it floats your boat, and you have the money... go for it.
I... also am one of those.... who remember the mantra here of "don't buy the plastic... buy the coin!" and "learn to grade yourself". How times have changed. I'll let it go at that. To each their own. We all collect what we each like, whether it is well circulated, or the perceived example of perfection.
... at some point, with all the new holders, stickers, and marketing hype, ... there will be fatigue and burnout from all the plastic and rainbow stickers that coin collectors will start looking at just the coin again
I think most people still collect the coin, not plastic holder or the pretty little stickers. Can you say dogma, "a prescribed doctrine proclaimed as unquestionably true by a particular group". Caveat emptor.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
@tincup said:
And I do actually find the previous comment that PCGS... could provide a service of a "PCGS Bean" very ironic and funny. BUT.... why not? ?
Many collectors already participate in the PCGS Registry program. PCGS should offer a stickering service for CACG and NGC coins for a fee. If your coin earns the coveted PCGS bean, your CACG or NGC slabbed coin would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS Registry. This would be an easy revenue stream for PCGS.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Cougar1978 said:
I see a PCGS one on eBay for $3729 plus ogp. Why in the world world would somebody pay $5795 for the op one? Unbelievable lol. My elevator goes to the top - does yours? Who would even pay that $5795? Gandolf?
Is that even for real, a presale or what? There has been no announcement I know of CACG material being released in the marketplace.
But its "first delivery" 😜
************************************
Many successful BST transactions with dozens of board members, references on request.
@Cougar1978 said:
I see a PCGS one on eBay for $3729 plus ogp. Why in the world world would somebody pay $5795 for the op one? Unbelievable lol. My elevator goes to the top - does yours? Who would even pay that $5795? Gandolf?
Is that even for real, a presale or what? There has been no announcement I know of CACG material being released in the marketplace.
But its "first delivery" 😜
I know lol - That does not mean diddly to me. I don’t doubt there are speculators who may go for that promo but then they have a challenge at that price imo. Then the seller does not even have it in inventory. Impressive Coin however It’s simply not a deal for me.
My best offer off bourse for that probably wb about 75-80 pct MV assuming I wanted it - the MV base wb most likely be PCGS Coin Facts. Or it could be CPG or what could sell for. Those aren’t exactly super rare coins nor something most of people coming in bourse room can afford. It would need be all in the deal for me, bought sight seen (and of course no spots or tarnish).
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I think that’s the downside of the grading service. I have no faith that a CAC green 65 won’t end up in a CACG 66 holder. I’m sure plenty of people will be cracking and submitting to see if they can get them to make a mistake.
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I'm thinking there are a LOT of nervous collectors of that cute little green sticker out there. A fool and his money are soon parted.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I think that’s the downside of the grading service. I have no faith that a CAC green 65 won’t end up in a CACG 66 holder. I’m sure plenty of people will be cracking and submitting to see if they can get them to make a mistake.
>
>
My concern is a little different. CAC has always said that part of stickering a coin was that it also had outstanding eye appeal, or something along those lines.
So in the past, they could just deny a sticker to any particular coin, for any particular reason.
With CACG this is not an option. If it’s not a ‘details’ coin, it’s going to straight grade to something. Even if the grade is dropped a few points, a coin that’s unappealing will still remain so.
So it would seem that CACG will be a strictly technical grade, just like the other TPGs, ignoring any eye appeal.
If I’m wrong, please enlighten me.
HB
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I think that’s the downside of the grading service. I have no faith that a CAC green 65 won’t end up in a CACG 66 holder. I’m sure plenty of people will be cracking and submitting to see if they can get them to make a mistake.
>
>
My concern is a little different. CAC has always said that part of stickering a coin was that it also had outstanding eye appeal, or something along those lines.
So in the past, they could just deny a sticker to any particular coin, for any particular reason.
With CACG this is not an option. If it’s not a ‘details’ coin, it’s going to straight grade to something. Even if the grade is dropped a few points, a coin that’s unappealing will still remain so.
So it would seem that CACG will be a strictly technical grade, just like the other TPGs, ignoring any eye appeal.
If I’m wrong, please enlighten me.
HB
Concur completely. The cache of the brand will inevitably be diluted unless they refuse to slab crappy examples.
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I'm thinking there are a LOT of nervous collectors of that cute little green sticker out there. A fool and his money are soon parted.
I was having a hard time trying to read between the lines here. So if you are a CAC collector, you are a nervous fool? Could you please clarify
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I think that’s the downside of the grading service. I have no faith that a CAC green 65 won’t end up in a CACG 66 holder. I’m sure plenty of people will be cracking and submitting to see if they can get them to make a mistake.
>
>
My concern is a little different. CAC has always said that part of stickering a coin was that it also had outstanding eye appeal, or something along those lines.
So in the past, they could just deny a sticker to any particular coin, for any particular reason.
With CACG this is not an option. If it’s not a ‘details’ coin, it’s going to straight grade to something. Even if the grade is dropped a few points, a coin that’s unappealing will still remain so.
So it would seem that CACG will be a strictly technical grade, just like the other TPGs, ignoring any eye appeal.
If I’m wrong, please enlighten me.
HB
I’ve never seen a comment from CAC indicating that “part of stickering a coin was that it also had outstanding eye appeal, or something along those lines.” A great many coins of various grades - both CAC and non-CAC - lack strong eye appeal.
Additionally, NGC and PCGS don’t ignore eye appeal and neither will CACG.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A question I have is what happens to the collector who sent cac stickering service dozens of coins throughout the years and ends up with a pile that didn’t sticker. Now that person sends that group of those non cac stickered coins to cac grading for crossovers at any grade, and everything downgrades.
Is that customer going to be happy and use cac services again? I’d get the feeling the person just lost a significant amount of value in their collection. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice…I wouldn’t use cac grading again.
As to the persons post above, I feel the only coins that are appropriate for cacg are the absolute stale junk in the marketplace. Unsalable, common, no interest coins that people may actually take a look at if cac grades them.
A stunning $20 saint in pcgs 66 is better with a cac sticker than in a cac holder (imo).
@JimTyler said:
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I'm thinking there are a LOT of nervous collectors of that cute little green sticker out there. A fool and his money are soon parted.
I was having a hard time trying to read between the lines here. So if you are a CAC collector, you are a nervous fool? Could you please clarify
I don’t think any reading between the lines was required.
Some people mistakenly think buyers of CAC coins are fools - nervous or otherwise.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@1madman said:
A question I have is what happens to the collector who sent cac stickering service dozens of coins throughout the years and ends up with a pile that didn’t sticker. Now that person sends that group of those non cac stickered coins to cac grading for crossovers at any grade, and everything downgrades.
Is that customer going to be happy and use cac services again? I’d get the feeling the person just lost a significant amount of value in their collection. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice…I wouldn’t use cac grading again.
As to the persons post above, I feel the only coins that are appropriate for cacg are the absolute stale junk in the marketplace. Unsalable, common, no interest coins that people may actually take a look at if cac grades them.
A stunning $20 saint in pcgs 66 is better with a cac sticker than in a cac holder (imo).
If someone has a large group of coins that failed to sticker previously, why would they submit them for crossover at any grade? And under those circumstances, if the coins downgrade, in what way would the submitter be “fooled”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m making a guess here, but wouldn’t people who like/buy cac stickered coins also like cac graded coins? So your pcgs/NGC coins that didn’t sticker can now go to cac grading to still get their seal of approval.
They would be fooled in the fact of buying NGC/pcgs slabbed ms62 coins, and they all downgrade to cac au58 grades. If I was the submitter, I’d be pissed to a certain degree.
But I see your point in that setting a minimum cross grade as to what’s on the current slab is pointless too, because if that coin already failed to sticker at cac, it will not cross, and you’re just throwing money away.
@1madman said:
I’m making a guess here, but wouldn’t people who like/buy cac stickered coins also like cac graded coins? So your pcgs/NGC coins that didn’t sticker can now go to cac grading to still get their seal of approval.
They would be fooled in the fact of buying NGC/pcgs slabbed ms62 coins, and they all downgrade to cac au58 grades. If I was the submitter, I’d be pissed to a certain degree.
But I see your point in that setting a minimum cross grade as to what’s on the current slab is pointless too, because if that coin already failed to sticker at cac, it will not cross, and you’re just throwing money away.
It’s possible in this scenario that the collector is relying waaay to much on the grading services. The coins are the same coins no matter what holder they are in. I don’t see any reason at all for this collector to send the coins to CACG.
@1madman said:
I’m making a guess here, but wouldn’t people who like/buy cac stickered coins also like cac graded coins? So your pcgs/NGC coins that didn’t sticker can now go to cac grading to still get their seal of approval.
They would be fooled in the fact of buying NGC/pcgs slabbed ms62 coins, and they all downgrade to cac au58 grades. If I was the submitter, I’d be pissed to a certain degree.
But I see your point in that setting a minimum cross grade as to what’s on the current slab is pointless too, because if that coin already failed to sticker at cac, it will not cross, and you’re just throwing money away.
I think many or most potential submitters to CACG will assume that higher value, non-CAC coins have already been tried at CAC. And that if they do try CACG for crossover, they’ll do so with minimum grades. Only time will tell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@1madman said:
I’m making a guess here, but wouldn’t people who like/buy cac stickered coins also like cac graded coins? So your pcgs/NGC coins that didn’t sticker can now go to cac grading to still get their seal of approval.
They would be fooled in the fact of buying NGC/pcgs slabbed ms62 coins, and they all downgrade to cac au58 grades. If I was the submitter, I’d be pissed to a certain degree.
But I see your point in that setting a minimum cross grade as to what’s on the current slab is pointless too, because if that coin already failed to sticker at cac, it will not cross, and you’re just throwing money away.
It’s possible in this scenario that the collector is relying waaay to much on the grading services. The coins are the same coins no matter what holder they are in. I don’t see any reason at all for this collector to send the coins to CACG.
>
I think whether to cross or not can’t really be determined until it’s clear where the market values CACG vs other TPG.
Personally, I will keep my PCGS/CACs. I do have some NGC/CACs that I might someday consider crossing. At least some of them I’m quite certain won’t cross to PCGS, at the same grade.
They will, however cross to CACG because they’re stickered. So if the market eventually values CACG close to PCGS, it’s kinda a good reason to cross, before a future sell.
HB
@tincup said:
And I do actually find the previous comment that PCGS... could provide a service of a "PCGS Bean" very ironic and funny. BUT.... why not? ?
Agreed. CACG coins with PCGS gold beans would become all the rage.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I definitely want a slab or two by CACG, but still think PCGS or NGC with the sticker is the best combination. Two graders are always better than just one in my opinion. Their slab alone to me is no different really than a PCGS or NGC slab without a sticker.
This thread is way too long to read all the replies so I apologize if this is redundant. John posted on the CAC forums that the images are photoshopped. There will be a small number of samples produced next week to train employees. The first regular run coins will be the ten selected coins from CAC’s essay contest back in May 2023.
Comments
I was disappointed to get this email yesterday as well. As has been pointed out, this is a business. CACG will get a lot of marketing from RCTV. They are on from 12-6 on Saturday and Sunday. Everything they sell is at a huge markup, but it must work.
First Delivery seems like reasonable nomenclature.
The good news is that perhaps now, this forum won’t continue to be inundated with CAC threads. 😀
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
And you have to wonder who at cac is tasked with grading and finalizing these as that's a specialty many graders don't want to be doing? Or will optical machines be doing it?
Probably some junior grader/s I would guess.
this is making me emotional, I need a hug
The bad news is that the forum will be filled with threads blaming CACG for inflation, crime, earthquakes and floods.
NGC and PCGS slab far more modern coins than classic coins with Eagles leading the way. But CACG offers the same service and this is a problem because...
Or are we supposed to be upset that RCTV is offering CACG coins this month instead of the PCGS and NGC coins they sold last month?
But the real point is that it isn't a stickered modern. It's a modern graded by the new grading service. The sticker is not actually a sticker. It's a picture that is part of the slab. They never said all coins in their slabs would be PQ for the grade.
With a special Vaultbox slab to boot.
There's a whole lot of spanking going on in this thread. I'm going to play it safe and just not post. What.
CACG threads will be way more fun and introduce a number of questions that go beyond CAC’s scope of business.
TPGs need to drive revenue. Another viable company will make all the others better as they compete, strive for excellence and certify your coins.
It's all good for the marketplace, more consistency, integrity and value will follow.
Ironically, these could become good investments if the CACG Gen 1.0 holder doesn't last long.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Anyone aware of the recent upticks in crime and inflation as well as the earthquake in the FIJI ISLANDS REGION? I'm not going to talk about flooding so don't get me started.
We all know which grading service is to blame so I'm not going there.
Modern coin ... good test of new operations.
As was said RCTV pays for the grading which is all CACG is responsible for.
They are a grading service. The days of adding to the product are probably winding down?. Others could and should fill the niche. It's a low cost service once you have the personnel and equipment. A new service trading on JA's reputation. CACG will encounter many more issues than when they were only an add on service. What grades / versus their competitors for a similar coin and how will their final grade affect the final sales l price? what price coin do you send? Will anyone pay a few dollars more for modern coins? Too many questions at this point. Will they offer a guaranteed cross over grade? The quantity of coins coming in will be a factor re pricing, if their wait time is too long will it cost biz? The list goes on.
I'll wait/watch and judge the markets reaction. I'm agnostic. My only question is whether the market will be able to handle more tpg's in the next downturn?
I thought the same thing even if I think it is crazy to collect protective holders rather than the intended collectible.
I think people are reacting that CACG is having a soft opening from a select group of individuals and it appears that RCTV was chosen as one of those select individuals. So a company that it appears, from what people have said in this thread, is known to take advantage of people was chosen to be one of the very first customers to CACG. RCTV has 4 different CACG offerings so I think people are just more disappointed that this is happening right out of the gate. If you hold CAC stickering and JA in extremely high opinion this could possibly make one re-evaluate their opinion.
They said from the beginning that investors in CACG are going to get to slab coins first. Whomever is routing these coins to RCTV for sale put up a pretty penny to invest and be first in line. You can bet those investors want to recoup their investment both through the company itself and through opportunities that ownership of that company provides them as far as priority grading.
True which makes sense. While I don't care one way or another from everything I heard about JA this is not the sort of company I would have expected him to associate with. Granted, to be fair, he does not own CACG outright and he could have been adamantly opposed but his business partners did not feel the same. It seems some believe everything he does is to help the individual numismatist when the truth is probably much more nuanced.
He’s built an incredible brand and he’s cashing in on it. I don’t blame him a bit.
At that price ….no thanks. If this a preview I am skipping the movie. Not a shark rider.
This is his rollout? I envisioned coin display cases full of CACG Classic coins stacked. Thought they hated mods lol.
I don’t care who he is bla bla bla btw get outta here this is a PCGS forum.
What gets me - Who is going to pay that on that 70 AGE ROFL?
It's not a rollout by CACG. It's a pre-sale by a coin dealer. And not that I know, but I'll bet the first coin graded will be something special.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That may be what bothers you, but no one else had articulated that belief.
You should try getting your facts straight before throwing out your customary “lol”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Or VautBox3!
I just shake my head. I just don't get it, but that's ok. If it floats your boat, and you have the money... go for it.
I... also am one of those.... who remember the mantra here of "don't buy the plastic... buy the coin!" and "learn to grade yourself". How times have changed. I'll let it go at that. To each their own. We all collect what we each like, whether it is well circulated, or the perceived example of perfection.
And I do actually find the previous comment that PCGS... could provide a service of a "PCGS Bean" very ironic and funny. BUT.... why not? ?
I think most people still collect the coin, not plastic holder or the pretty little stickers. Can you say dogma, "a prescribed doctrine proclaimed as unquestionably true by a particular group". Caveat emptor.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
Many collectors already participate in the PCGS Registry program. PCGS should offer a stickering service for CACG and NGC coins for a fee. If your coin earns the coveted PCGS bean, your CACG or NGC slabbed coin would then be allowed to be included in the PCGS Registry. This would be an easy revenue stream for PCGS.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
But its "first delivery" 😜
Many successful BST transactions with dozens of board members, references on request.
I know lol - That does not mean diddly to me. I don’t doubt there are speculators who may go for that promo but then they have a challenge at that price imo. Then the seller does not even have it in inventory. Impressive Coin however It’s simply not a deal for me.
My best offer off bourse for that probably wb about 75-80 pct MV assuming I wanted it - the MV base wb most likely be PCGS Coin Facts. Or it could be CPG or what could sell for. Those aren’t exactly super rare coins nor something most of people coming in bourse room can afford. It would need be all in the deal for me, bought sight seen (and of course no spots or tarnish).
I read this comment here but think it’s maybe the most important. CAC claim to fame was to double check PCGS/NGC and to weed out the low end coins for the given grade. Now with their new slab they have risen to the almighty grading service with them being the one and only. No longer a need to double check just believe us. This almost makes me like CAC beans.
I think that’s the downside of the grading service. I have no faith that a CAC green 65 won’t end up in a CACG 66 holder. I’m sure plenty of people will be cracking and submitting to see if they can get them to make a mistake.
I'm thinking there are a LOT of nervous collectors of that cute little green sticker out there. A fool and his money are soon parted.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
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My concern is a little different. CAC has always said that part of stickering a coin was that it also had outstanding eye appeal, or something along those lines.
So in the past, they could just deny a sticker to any particular coin, for any particular reason.
With CACG this is not an option. If it’s not a ‘details’ coin, it’s going to straight grade to something. Even if the grade is dropped a few points, a coin that’s unappealing will still remain so.
So it would seem that CACG will be a strictly technical grade, just like the other TPGs, ignoring any eye appeal.
If I’m wrong, please enlighten me.
HB
Concur completely. The cache of the brand will inevitably be diluted unless they refuse to slab crappy examples.
I was having a hard time trying to read between the lines here. So if you are a CAC collector, you are a nervous fool? Could you please clarify
I’ve never seen a comment from CAC indicating that “part of stickering a coin was that it also had outstanding eye appeal, or something along those lines.” A great many coins of various grades - both CAC and non-CAC - lack strong eye appeal.
Additionally, NGC and PCGS don’t ignore eye appeal and neither will CACG.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
A question I have is what happens to the collector who sent cac stickering service dozens of coins throughout the years and ends up with a pile that didn’t sticker. Now that person sends that group of those non cac stickered coins to cac grading for crossovers at any grade, and everything downgrades.
Is that customer going to be happy and use cac services again? I’d get the feeling the person just lost a significant amount of value in their collection. Fool me once shame on me, fool me twice…I wouldn’t use cac grading again.
As to the persons post above, I feel the only coins that are appropriate for cacg are the absolute stale junk in the marketplace. Unsalable, common, no interest coins that people may actually take a look at if cac grades them.
A stunning $20 saint in pcgs 66 is better with a cac sticker than in a cac holder (imo).
I don’t think any reading between the lines was required.
Some people mistakenly think buyers of CAC coins are fools - nervous or otherwise.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If someone has a large group of coins that failed to sticker previously, why would they submit them for crossover at any grade? And under those circumstances, if the coins downgrade, in what way would the submitter be “fooled”?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m making a guess here, but wouldn’t people who like/buy cac stickered coins also like cac graded coins? So your pcgs/NGC coins that didn’t sticker can now go to cac grading to still get their seal of approval.
They would be fooled in the fact of buying NGC/pcgs slabbed ms62 coins, and they all downgrade to cac au58 grades. If I was the submitter, I’d be pissed to a certain degree.
But I see your point in that setting a minimum cross grade as to what’s on the current slab is pointless too, because if that coin already failed to sticker at cac, it will not cross, and you’re just throwing money away.
It’s possible in this scenario that the collector is relying waaay to much on the grading services. The coins are the same coins no matter what holder they are in. I don’t see any reason at all for this collector to send the coins to CACG.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
I think many or most potential submitters to CACG will assume that higher value, non-CAC coins have already been tried at CAC. And that if they do try CACG for crossover, they’ll do so with minimum grades. Only time will tell.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I think whether to cross or not can’t really be determined until it’s clear where the market values CACG vs other TPG.
Personally, I will keep my PCGS/CACs. I do have some NGC/CACs that I might someday consider crossing. At least some of them I’m quite certain won’t cross to PCGS, at the same grade.
They will, however cross to CACG because they’re stickered. So if the market eventually values CACG close to PCGS, it’s kinda a good reason to cross, before a future sell.
HB
Agreed. CACG coins with PCGS gold beans would become all the rage.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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I definitely want a slab or two by CACG, but still think PCGS or NGC with the sticker is the best combination. Two graders are always better than just one in my opinion. Their slab alone to me is no different really than a PCGS or NGC slab without a sticker.
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This thread is way too long to read all the replies so I apologize if this is redundant. John posted on the CAC forums that the images are photoshopped. There will be a small number of samples produced next week to train employees. The first regular run coins will be the ten selected coins from CAC’s essay contest back in May 2023.