@thisistheshow said:
I'd like to see him admit to, apologize for, and be held accountable for quitting on his team last year and sitting out the playoffs even though he wasn't hurt. 🤷
How do you know he wasnt hurt? Why do people always take the side of multimillionaire owners many of which are so cheap they charge the players to eat meals at the stadium? I wouldnt have played through an injury and risked my entire career either for a team not willing to give me a market value offer
......
I absolutely do not side with the owners. That isn't my point here.
The commonly held belief, as far as I know, is that he was well enough to play but stayed out to prove a point. I don't remember the stories, tweets, etc surrounding it all, but we could go back and revisit it. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyone else here remember?
I know rumors of that were out there likely from fans that wanted him to play. He may have been able to play through the injury but he was for sure hurt and it wouldnt have made any sense for him to risk being the next RG3 without a long term guaranteed deal in place. Theres also a chance that he wouldnt have been able to play either way, theres just the belief he would have tried to if a deal was in place however accurate that belief may or may not be
@thisistheshow said:
I'd like to see him admit to, apologize for, and be held accountable for quitting on his team last year and sitting out the playoffs even though he wasn't hurt. 🤷
How do you know he wasnt hurt? Why do people always take the side of multimillionaire owners many of which are so cheap they charge the players to eat meals at the stadium? I wouldnt have played through an injury and risked my entire career either for a team not willing to give me a market value offer
Please, it's not the first time a player has done this, nobody is siding with greedy owners, we are just calling out the crappy work ethic of a guy getting paid millions to do a job and didn't do it, if this isn't the case here then fine but it's not that far fetched to believe he was fine.
He certainly wasnt fine. He would have been placed on a suspension list if he was a healthy scratch refusing to play. The question isnt whether he was fine or not, its whether or not he could have tried to gut it out letting them dope him up on toradol to play through it risking further/more severe injury.
It was a knee injury, RG3 had his career ended playing through a knee injury. The only way it would have made any sense for him to risk it or try to risk it would have been with a long term guaranteed deal in place.
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten
.......
I could see a scenario where he would be happy with a fully guaranteed 3 year deal right now, because he would then think he is going to re-sign in a couple of years when the cap is even bigger. He would still be under 30. Get even more money then. But he'd want this deal to be more like 3 for somewhere between 55 or 56 per year so the total comes out to about 166,600,000.
In pro sports injured is different than hurt. When you are injured you can't play. When you are hurt you can maybe play, and you can get consultation regarding possibly making things worse. Obviously I am simplifying this.
He was injured. But by the time the playoffs came he was hurt, and he was the only chance his team had to do something in playoffs.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten
.......
I could see a scenario where he would be happy with a fully guaranteed 3 year deal right now, because he would then think he is going to re-sign in a couple of years when the cap is even bigger. He would still be under 30. Get even more money then. But he'd want this deal to be more like 3 for somewhere between 55 or 56 per year so the total comes out to about 166,600,000.
I could see that too sarficing years for a higher AAV. He wouldnt be the first athlete to do it and wouldnt be the last. If the 3/133 was a real offer its very light on both years and AAV.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
Despite his history as a winning Head Coach, John Harbaugh has mad some questionable decisions during the past 2-3 seasons. The failures of the Baltimore Ravens aren't entirely Lamar Jackson's.
Also, I think the most troubling thing about the NFL right now financially is all the "guaranteed contracts" being offered.
@Maywood said:
Despite his history as a winning Head Coach, John Harbaugh has mad some questionable decisions during the past 2-3 seasons. The failures of the Baltimore Ravens aren't entirely Lamar Jackson's.
Also, I think the most troubling thing about the NFL right now financially is all the "guaranteed contracts" being offered.
....
The NFL was the only one of the major US sports to not deal much in fully guaranteed contracts. One obvious reason is the injury issues with players. As a result, the players and teams have gotten better and better at making sure that they get what they want out of the contracts, and able to inundate them with lots of clauses, etc
If we are going to go into an error of more frequent fully guaranteed deals, that would mean that potentially teams are stuck with paying players who can't play, this hampering their rosters. I would expect there to be workarounds and changes to how things are done of the fully guaranteed thing becomes more of a norm..
There’s no way long term fully guaranteed deals will become the norm. The only exception to that might be quarterbacks with a more conservative style of play. Teams will be willing to do shorter term deals that are fully guaranteed, but how is that really any better for the player than long term deals that are not guaranteed? Usually the front end money is guaranteed, so if those years go well the contract can be renegotiated anyway.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
.......
The thing is that it is unlikely (as far as I know) that Jackson would be willing to play on the tag.
There’s no way long term fully guaranteed deals will become the norm. The only exception to that might be quarterbacks with a more conservative style of play. Teams will be willing to do shorter term deals that are fully guaranteed, but how is that really any better for the player than long term deals that are not guaranteed? Usually the front end money is guaranteed, so if those years go well the contract can be renegotiated anyway.
Anything guaranteed is better for the player than not. It doesnt matter if they give you 10 years 1 billion dollars if nothing is guaranteed where they can cut you at any second for any reason and owe you nothing. Some of these teams like the Cardinals are so cheap they even charge players for meals
There are several positions where more guaranteed will happen, it just takes the superstars to push for it for everyone else. There are some advantages for the team as well where you dont have to deal with holdouts when they outperform their contract. A team could also potentially give a lower contract in exchange for guaranteeing it
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
.......
The thing is that it is unlikely (as far as I know) that Jackson would be willing to play on the tag.
It'd be a rather crazy move considering he wouldnt get paid and be subject to fines and other punishments if he denied the tag. Technically he could, but Im not sure anyone has ever benefited from doing so.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
They might be but who knows if Lamar is happy though. I haven't read too much into it but I did see that Baltimore used the non exclusive FT that pays him just 32M compared to the exclusice tag that pays out 45M. Its crazy where that exclusive franchise tag number is at these days for quarterbacks lol.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
.......
The thing is that it is unlikely (as far as I know) that Jackson would be willing to play on the tag.
It'd be a rather crazy move considering he wouldnt get paid and be subject to fines and other punishments if he denied the tag. Technically he could, but Im not sure anyone has ever benefited from doing so.
....
I'd be surprised if he does, I'll put it like that.
@erikthredd said:
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten.
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
They might be but who knows if Lamar is happy though. I haven't read too much into it but I did see that Baltimore used the non exclusive FT that pays him just 32M compared to the exclusice tag that pays out 45M. Its crazy where that exclusive franchise tag number is at these days for quarterbacks lol.
The non exclusive is what almost always happens given the two first rounders if they leave. Theres only been like 4 exclusive ones and I think the last one was 2017. If they dont work something out or work out a trade for him that would be less than the tag punishment I would bet another tag next year and then maybe by the third one they say it would cost to much with the huge bump that would bring on. They havent really seemed to handle this situation they knew was coming very well
Lamar Jackson wants a guaranteed deal and the Ravens don’t want to overpay him.
In a sport where any play can change the trajectory of your career, I don’t fault him for not playing. Ask Robert Griffen III about how well it works out when you play hurt without a guaranteed deal.
The system is what it is - they can overpay him via the franchise tag anyway and he can hold out at the end of the season because he’s not willing to risk it.
They both lose. Or they can reach a deal. Doesn’t seem like either side cares. Me neither.
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@coinkat said:
There is such a thing as squandering an opportunity. And some really need to think about what success means beyond dollars.
Sounds like a good reason for a team to pay a fair value and not try and low ball a player
....
I know it's just media reports, but I remember reading last year that Jackson had turned down a giant offer from the Ravens with substantial guaranteed money. If anyone can dig this up, it wasn't a low-ball as far as I remember.
@coinkat said:
There is such a thing as squandering an opportunity. And some really need to think about what success means beyond dollars.
Sounds like a good reason for a team to pay a fair value and not try and low ball a player
....
I know it's just media reports, but I remember reading last year that Jackson had turned down a giant offer from the Ravens with substantial guaranteed money. If anyone can dig this up, it wasn't a low-ball as far as I remember.
The rumor was 5 250 million with 133 guaranteed. Thatd still be low with what other QBs have gotten, but theres also been a lot of these leaked offers that never happened. Even if true the guarantee is significantly lower that other QBs signing such deals recently especially for his age
I have gotten rather sick of the whole matter and am gradually souring more and more on professional sports - not that anybody cares.
FWIW, as a football fan and athlete of many years standing, I would say Lamar is a good player and decent QB but NOT on the level of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, or Burrows, or Hurts for that matter.
I think he can get the Ravens or probably a number of other teams to the playoffs, and perhaps even win A game but that is it. His ability as a passing QB, and especially in the clinch just does not add up.
Good running back that can occasionally throw the ball. I think the Ravens have seen essentially that, so that he is not THAT player but definately good enough to get them to the playoffs with plenty of excitement in the meanwhile so he is not without value, just not what he seems to think he is worth.
And ironic that he choose Watson as a model - what a waste he was at the level he was paid! Also a decent player, but just not all there for that kind of money on those terms. And don't go there with Aaron Rodgers, who HAD more talent than either of these two but has gotten lost to ego, time and alcohol.
Well, good luck to both the Ravens and to Lamar - and to the Musical Chairs winner who ends up with him if at his estimated value of himself.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
@thisistheshow said:
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
There is a lot of merit to.what your saying, idk I saw the article and figured it was worthy of posting.
Players will always want to get fair market value after seeing players score massive deals especially when they think their value is much higher.
I have no problems with Mahomes getting such a big money deal but guys like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and DeShawn Watson set the market in a stupid direction
@thisistheshow said:
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
There is a lot of merit to.what your saying, idk I saw the article and figured it was worthy of posting.
Players will always want to get fair market value after seeing players score massive deals especially when they think their value is much higher.
I have no problems with Mahomes getting such a big money deal but guys like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and DeShawn Watson set the market in a stupid direction
....
The way the market was being set was that each subsequent signing of one of the top QBs set the market in yearly average, guaranteed, or overall.
If you remember, Cousins played in the tag 2 years before getting the guaranteed deal, and it wasn't a long term one.
The deal for Watson was idiotic.
At the end of the day, yes the owners are making substantial money in the labor of the players. However, the owners have no incentive to put a great or even good product in the field. They split up a huge pie regardless of whether their teams finish first or last. The way the economics of the leagues work now means that the money paid to the players (and the owners) can no longer be excused as being the spoils if a capitalistic system. That is no longer how these leagues function. Owners used to be incentivized to win because they made substantially more by putting a better product on the field.
@thisistheshow said:
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
There is a lot of merit to.what your saying, idk I saw the article and figured it was worthy of posting.
Players will always want to get fair market value after seeing players score massive deals especially when they think their value is much higher.
I have no problems with Mahomes getting such a big money deal but guys like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and DeShawn Watson set the market in a stupid direction
....
The way the market was being set was that each subsequent signing of one of the top QBs set the market in yearly average, guaranteed, or overall.
If you remember, Cousins played in the tag 2 years before getting the guaranteed deal, and it wasn't a long term one.
The deal for Watson was idiotic.
At the end of the day, yes the owners are making substantial money in the labor of the players. However, the owners have no incentive to put a great or even good product in the field. They split up a huge pie regardless of whether their teams finish first or last. The way the economics of the leagues work now means that the money paid to the players (and the owners) can no longer be excused as being the spoils if a capitalistic system. That is no longer how these leagues function. Owners used to be incentivized to win because they made substantially more by putting a better product on the field.
They still do make substantially more putting a better product on the field. All of the most valuable franchises put competitive products out, try and win, and most were consistent winners at some point during the fans lifetime. Winning breeds loyalty that gets people still coming and watching during a down year it also creates merchandise revenue. Theres a reason why the Cowboys are the most valuable franchise at over 8 billion being one of the most valuable franchises in the world meanwhile the Cardnials are values between 3 and 4 billion. The Patriots are estimated to be number two when before Brady got there they wouldnt have even been in the top half of the league, no one really cared about them until they started winning and now theyre a national brand
@thisistheshow said:
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
There is a lot of merit to.what your saying, idk I saw the article and figured it was worthy of posting.
Players will always want to get fair market value after seeing players score massive deals especially when they think their value is much higher.
I have no problems with Mahomes getting such a big money deal but guys like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and DeShawn Watson set the market in a stupid direction
....
The way the market was being set was that each subsequent signing of one of the top QBs set the market in yearly average, guaranteed, or overall.
If you remember, Cousins played in the tag 2 years before getting the guaranteed deal, and it wasn't a long term one.
The deal for Watson was idiotic.
At the end of the day, yes the owners are making substantial money in the labor of the players. However, the owners have no incentive to put a great or even good product in the field. They split up a huge pie regardless of whether their teams finish first or last. The way the economics of the leagues work now means that the money paid to the players (and the owners) can no longer be excused as being the spoils if a capitalistic system. That is no longer how these leagues function. Owners used to be incentivized to win because they made substantially more by putting a better product on the field.
They still do make substantially more putting a better product on the field. All of the most valuable franchises put competitive products out, try and win, and most were consistent winners at some point during the fans lifetime. Winning breeds loyalty that gets people still coming and watching during a down year it also creates merchandise revenue. Theres a reason why the Cowboys are the most valuable franchise at over 8 billion being one of the most valuable franchises in the world meanwhile the Cardnials are values between 3 and 4 billion. The Patriots are estimated to be number two when before Brady got there they wouldnt have even been in the top half of the league, no one really cared about them until they started winning and now theyre a national brand
....
Yes, I am aware of the extra money that they can make in such a way. But the reality is that the main revenue is coming from the tv deals, which they split. Or I am incorrect on this? Before the huge tv deals, teams had to rely on putting out a better product to make money. Some owners had other businesses, some did not. Some owners could afford to lose money on the team, and still pay the players, etc. But now it's a giant multi billion dollar business with a salary cap, etc.
Are you saying, @Basebal21 , that sports franchise owners, in your opinion, are generally motivated to put the best possible product on the field because that is how they make the most money?
@thisistheshow said:
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
There is a lot of merit to.what your saying, idk I saw the article and figured it was worthy of posting.
Players will always want to get fair market value after seeing players score massive deals especially when they think their value is much higher.
I have no problems with Mahomes getting such a big money deal but guys like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and DeShawn Watson set the market in a stupid direction
....
The way the market was being set was that each subsequent signing of one of the top QBs set the market in yearly average, guaranteed, or overall.
If you remember, Cousins played in the tag 2 years before getting the guaranteed deal, and it wasn't a long term one.
The deal for Watson was idiotic.
At the end of the day, yes the owners are making substantial money in the labor of the players. However, the owners have no incentive to put a great or even good product in the field. They split up a huge pie regardless of whether their teams finish first or last. The way the economics of the leagues work now means that the money paid to the players (and the owners) can no longer be excused as being the spoils if a capitalistic system. That is no longer how these leagues function. Owners used to be incentivized to win because they made substantially more by putting a better product on the field.
They still do make substantially more putting a better product on the field. All of the most valuable franchises put competitive products out, try and win, and most were consistent winners at some point during the fans lifetime. Winning breeds loyalty that gets people still coming and watching during a down year it also creates merchandise revenue. Theres a reason why the Cowboys are the most valuable franchise at over 8 billion being one of the most valuable franchises in the world meanwhile the Cardnials are values between 3 and 4 billion. The Patriots are estimated to be number two when before Brady got there they wouldnt have even been in the top half of the league, no one really cared about them until they started winning and now theyre a national brand
....
Yes, I am aware of the extra money that they can make in such a way. But the reality is that the main revenue is coming from the tv deals, which they split. Or I am incorrect on this? Before the huge tv deals, teams had to rely on putting out a better product to make money. Some owners had other businesses, some did not. Some owners could afford to lose money on the team, and still pay the players, etc. But now it's a giant multi billion dollar business with a salary cap, etc.
Are you saying, @Basebal21 , that sports franchise owners, in your opinion, are generally motivated to put the best possible product on the field because that is how they make the most money?
I'm saying in the NFL they're generally motivated to try and put the best product on the field. Theres money they split as a league and money they dont. The tv deals that are split are big money, but selling luxury boxes/stadium naming rights are also big money too which they dont have to split. They get to keep the majority of their ticket money among other things. The big national popular teams can charge significantly more for their boxes and naming. The other thing too is if you're good you get put in the primetime games which further builds the brand, while if you bad you get the Thursday night game if you end up being broadcast at all
In general in the NFL even the bad teams like Washington and the Jets have been trying to win all this time, they were just making bad decisions or had organizational issues that were ruining players. The NFL has been pretty good at keeping out owners who just want to tank, even the Cardinals owner whose so cheap he charges players for meals at the facility paid up for Murry (which very likely was a mistake). Baseball would be a different story when you have at least 1/3rd of the owners that have been in tank mode for a decade just using the teams as their own personal piggy bank. Its the opposite for baseball, they only have a handful of owners that want to win where the NFL only has a handful they may not care that much.
The other thing the NFL does really well is the draft. Its expensive to keep having top picks tanking in the NFL. Baseball limits what teams can spend on the entire draft and the first overall pick only gets about 8 million and it quickly falls from there. After that they get stuffed in the minors making a few hundred a month until they get called up to the pros and teams have 6 years before they have to call them up or theyre a minor league free agent. That really encourages tanking and just stockpiling a big minor league system. NFL teams would be doing back flips if they could get the 15th overall pick for 8 million much less the first.
Not to mention that NFL careers are so short its impossible to get players to tank and blatantly obvious if you do benching everyone. Texans missed the first overall pick because they tried to and did win their final game. For all of the NFL flaws they have done a good job getting owners to buy into the idea its better for them to be winners
@7Jaguars said:
I have gotten rather sick of the whole matter and am gradually souring more and more on professional sports - not that anybody cares.
FWIW, as a football fan and athlete of many years standing, I would say Lamar is a good player and decent QB but NOT on the level of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, or Burrows, or Hurts for that matter.
I think he can get the Ravens or probably a number of other teams to the playoffs, and perhaps even win A game but that is it. His ability as a passing QB, and especially in the clinch just does not add up.
C'mon. He's got a higher career passer rating than Hurts and Herbert and had 36 touchdowns 3 years ago. He's not an elite passer but he's better than you're giving him credit for.
Also, to correct the above, John Harbaugh has only won one Super Bowl.
Sadly, his performance has continued to deteriorate. Stop the cap on career, let's go to the last year (2nd worst completion %) or the last two years.
THen again, please tell me his record in playoffs or in 4th Quarter comebacks in the last two years again???
He needs to prove himself out, and he is like a QB version of Zeke Elliot sadly (again).
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@7Jaguars said:
Sadly, his performance has continued to deteriorate. Stop the cap on career, let's go to the last year (2nd worst completion %) or the last two years.
THen again, please tell me his record in playoffs or in 4th Quarter comebacks in the last two years again???
He needs to prove himself out, and he is like a QB version of Zeke Elliot sadly (again).
It would help if he actually had some WRs to throw too besides a TE
It doesn’t matter that much if he could have sucked it up and played in the play-offs or not. He’s been on the shelf for two years in a row when his team really needed him. That probably got Jimmy Garoppolo in the dog house at San Francisco. If I were a big Baltimore fan (I am a small one after attending so many Baltimore coin shows.) I’d be welcoming his departure with his salary cap busting demands.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I will be blunt in that ownership whereby a State or City name is used... which is always...involves something that seems to extend well beyond traditional private ownership. It is about the market you serve and one needs to do their best to relate to that market. It is clear that those involved in this dispute have so much to learn. And watching this salary dispute is really not well placed to serve anyone...
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@coinkat said:
I will be blunt in that ownership whereby a State or City name is used... which is always...involves something that seems to extend well beyond traditional private ownership. It is about the market you serve and one needs to do their best to relate to that market. It is clear that those involved in this dispute have so much to learn. And watching this salary dispute is really not well placed to serve anyone...
.....
In your opinion,how do the Ravens fans feel about retaining it moving on from Jackson? Is there a generational difference of opinion?
@coinkat said:
I will be blunt in that ownership whereby a State or City name is used... which is always...involves something that seems to extend well beyond traditional private ownership. It is about the market you serve and one needs to do their best to relate to that market. It is clear that those involved in this dispute have so much to learn. And watching this salary dispute is really not well placed to serve anyone...
There's no reason to feel it should extend past private ownership unless it actually does. The cities want the teams and benefit from having them. Winning is something for the owners and teams to worry about. For the players Its a job and the player would be dropped like a bad habit if they started to fail at their job. The player has no obligation to a place of employment
@coinkat said:
I will be blunt in that ownership whereby a State or City name is used... which is always...involves something that seems to extend well beyond traditional private ownership. It is about the market you serve and one needs to do their best to relate to that market. It is clear that those involved in this dispute have so much to learn. And watching this salary dispute is really not well placed to serve anyone...
There's no reason to feel it should extend past private ownership unless it actually does. The cities want the teams and benefit from having them. Winning is something for the owners and teams to worry about. For the players Its a job and the player would be dropped like a bad habit if they started to fail at their job. The player has no obligation to a place of employment
....
I might be wrong, as I can't speak for @coinkat , but I took his comment to mean that if the team is the Baltimore Ravens, then the city of Baltimore should be paramount to decisions.
@coinkat said:
I will be blunt in that ownership whereby a State or City name is used... which is always...involves something that seems to extend well beyond traditional private ownership. It is about the market you serve and one needs to do their best to relate to that market. It is clear that those involved in this dispute have so much to learn. And watching this salary dispute is really not well placed to serve anyone...
There's no reason to feel it should extend past private ownership unless it actually does. The cities want the teams and benefit from having them. Winning is something for the owners and teams to worry about. For the players Its a job and the player would be dropped like a bad habit if they started to fail at their job. The player has no obligation to a place of employment
....
I might be wrong, as I can't speak for @coinkat , but I took his comment to mean that if the team is the Baltimore Ravens, then the city of Baltimore should be paramount to decisions.
I obviously read it a little different, but in that case its even a bigger no. The city should have no say or be a consideration for anything other than a new stadium.
This is especially true for the Baltimore Ravens who took the Cleveland Browns and relocated them to Baltimore because the city of Baltimore lured them away and was basically begging them to come.
The way the Colts left Baltimore and how the Browns arrived is problematic. Two wrongs simply don't make a right.
Not sure there is a fix - Perhaps the Green Bay ownership model would help.
I really don't know how Ravens fans feel about this. There really is a significant disconnect in professional sports- at times it really seems to be a house of cards just waiting for the inevitable perfect storm.
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Comments
I know rumors of that were out there likely from fans that wanted him to play. He may have been able to play through the injury but he was for sure hurt and it wouldnt have made any sense for him to risk being the next RG3 without a long term guaranteed deal in place. Theres also a chance that he wouldnt have been able to play either way, theres just the belief he would have tried to if a deal was in place however accurate that belief may or may not be
Missouri 14 OSU 3
He certainly wasnt fine. He would have been placed on a suspension list if he was a healthy scratch refusing to play. The question isnt whether he was fine or not, its whether or not he could have tried to gut it out letting them dope him up on toradol to play through it risking further/more severe injury.
It was a knee injury, RG3 had his career ended playing through a knee injury. The only way it would have made any sense for him to risk it or try to risk it would have been with a long term guaranteed deal in place.
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Late to the show, yes, he is just greedy. And, he thinks he will succeed better as his own agent. Not sure that is the case.
All I want to know is where did all of the Lamar Jackson to the Patriots rumors come from? i've been seeing this everywhere for the past few days. Not that I'm even sure that the Belichcik & Kraft would ever want to go that route but certainly not when he's looking for the type of money he is.
Eric
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Theres no actual rumors, its former Patriot players (mostly a LB) saying they should/want them to trade for him
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Gotcha. I heard on local STR over the past few days then saw the clip on espn with Rob Ninkovich talking about it.
Eric
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Hes the one I was thinking of and couldnt remember the name. Hes been pushing it pretty hard saying it would put them in the playoffs etc. I dont see anyway that its more than just creating conversation for views. If he went anywhere it would probably be Synder mortgaging the future on his way out. Next years QB draft class should be both deep and contain elite talent, its one of the better expected classes in a long time which is probably making some teams hesitant to give up the picks for Lamar
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Not just picks but a ton of guaranteed money on top of that if he just turned down a 3yr/133M fully guaranteed offer. Crazy.
Eric
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True, thats very short for a 25 year old QB though given what others have gotten
Missouri 14 OSU 3
.......
I could see a scenario where he would be happy with a fully guaranteed 3 year deal right now, because he would then think he is going to re-sign in a couple of years when the cap is even bigger. He would still be under 30. Get even more money then. But he'd want this deal to be more like 3 for somewhere between 55 or 56 per year so the total comes out to about 166,600,000.
In pro sports injured is different than hurt. When you are injured you can't play. When you are hurt you can maybe play, and you can get consultation regarding possibly making things worse. Obviously I am simplifying this.
He was injured. But by the time the playoffs came he was hurt, and he was the only chance his team had to do something in playoffs.
I could see that too sarficing years for a higher AAV. He wouldnt be the first athlete to do it and wouldnt be the last. If the 3/133 was a real offer its very light on both years and AAV.
Missouri 14 OSU 3
Oh,agreed. I think that was Baltimore's attempt at a full guaranteed offer to try to make him happy even thought they won't give him that crazy Watson/Mahomes type deal that he thinks he's worth.
If I'm Baltimore,I find the best offer I can get for him and pass this headache onto some other team. Harbaugh has won SBs with two different QBs They'll be just fine without Lamar.
Eric
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Despite his history as a winning Head Coach, John Harbaugh has mad some questionable decisions during the past 2-3 seasons. The failures of the Baltimore Ravens aren't entirely Lamar Jackson's.
Also, I think the most troubling thing about the NFL right now financially is all the "guaranteed contracts" being offered.
....
The NFL was the only one of the major US sports to not deal much in fully guaranteed contracts. One obvious reason is the injury issues with players. As a result, the players and teams have gotten better and better at making sure that they get what they want out of the contracts, and able to inundate them with lots of clauses, etc
If we are going to go into an error of more frequent fully guaranteed deals, that would mean that potentially teams are stuck with paying players who can't play, this hampering their rosters. I would expect there to be workarounds and changes to how things are done of the fully guaranteed thing becomes more of a norm..
@thisistheshow
There’s no way long term fully guaranteed deals will become the norm. The only exception to that might be quarterbacks with a more conservative style of play. Teams will be willing to do shorter term deals that are fully guaranteed, but how is that really any better for the player than long term deals that are not guaranteed? Usually the front end money is guaranteed, so if those years go well the contract can be renegotiated anyway.
I would assume that Baltimore is happy just sticking him with the franchise tag as long as possible and then moving on if he wont take a lesser deal. They really dont have anything to lose by just hitting him with the tag as long as they can unless they feel his quality of play has dropped off to much
Missouri 14 OSU 3
.......
The thing is that it is unlikely (as far as I know) that Jackson would be willing to play on the tag.
Anything guaranteed is better for the player than not. It doesnt matter if they give you 10 years 1 billion dollars if nothing is guaranteed where they can cut you at any second for any reason and owe you nothing. Some of these teams like the Cardinals are so cheap they even charge players for meals
There are several positions where more guaranteed will happen, it just takes the superstars to push for it for everyone else. There are some advantages for the team as well where you dont have to deal with holdouts when they outperform their contract. A team could also potentially give a lower contract in exchange for guaranteeing it
Missouri 14 OSU 3
It'd be a rather crazy move considering he wouldnt get paid and be subject to fines and other punishments if he denied the tag. Technically he could, but Im not sure anyone has ever benefited from doing so.
Missouri 14 OSU 3
They might be but who knows if Lamar is happy though. I haven't read too much into it but I did see that Baltimore used the non exclusive FT that pays him just 32M compared to the exclusice tag that pays out 45M. Its crazy where that exclusive franchise tag number is at these days for quarterbacks lol.
Eric
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....
I'd be surprised if he does, I'll put it like that.
The non exclusive is what almost always happens given the two first rounders if they leave. Theres only been like 4 exclusive ones and I think the last one was 2017. If they dont work something out or work out a trade for him that would be less than the tag punishment I would bet another tag next year and then maybe by the third one they say it would cost to much with the huge bump that would bring on. They havent really seemed to handle this situation they knew was coming very well
Missouri 14 OSU 3
People overplay hands all the time.
Lamar Jackson wants a guaranteed deal and the Ravens don’t want to overpay him.
In a sport where any play can change the trajectory of your career, I don’t fault him for not playing. Ask Robert Griffen III about how well it works out when you play hurt without a guaranteed deal.
The system is what it is - they can overpay him via the franchise tag anyway and he can hold out at the end of the season because he’s not willing to risk it.
They both lose. Or they can reach a deal. Doesn’t seem like either side cares. Me neither.
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There is such a thing as squandering an opportunity. And some really need to think about what success means beyond dollars.
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Sounds like a good reason for a team to pay a fair value and not try and low ball a player
Missouri 14 OSU 3
....
I know it's just media reports, but I remember reading last year that Jackson had turned down a giant offer from the Ravens with substantial guaranteed money. If anyone can dig this up, it wasn't a low-ball as far as I remember.
The rumor was 5 250 million with 133 guaranteed. Thatd still be low with what other QBs have gotten, but theres also been a lot of these leaked offers that never happened. Even if true the guarantee is significantly lower that other QBs signing such deals recently especially for his age
Missouri 14 OSU 3
I have gotten rather sick of the whole matter and am gradually souring more and more on professional sports - not that anybody cares.
FWIW, as a football fan and athlete of many years standing, I would say Lamar is a good player and decent QB but NOT on the level of Mahomes, Allen, Herbert, or Burrows, or Hurts for that matter.
I think he can get the Ravens or probably a number of other teams to the playoffs, and perhaps even win A game but that is it. His ability as a passing QB, and especially in the clinch just does not add up.
Good running back that can occasionally throw the ball. I think the Ravens have seen essentially that, so that he is not THAT player but definately good enough to get them to the playoffs with plenty of excitement in the meanwhile so he is not without value, just not what he seems to think he is worth.
And ironic that he choose Watson as a model - what a waste he was at the level he was paid! Also a decent player, but just not all there for that kind of money on those terms. And don't go there with Aaron Rodgers, who HAD more talent than either of these two but has gotten lost to ego, time and alcohol.
Well, good luck to both the Ravens and to Lamar - and to the Musical Chairs winner who ends up with him if at his estimated value of himself.
Well, just Love coins, period.
https://sports.yahoo.com/richard-sherman-blames-patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-for-lamar-jacksons-stalled-contract-talks-213950021.html
Richard Sherman is one of those guys , I'm assuming, who wants the NFL owners (like the in the NBA) to be referred to as "governors". If my assumption is wrong, I apologize in advance. My point is that this is what his comments remind me of. And no, I'm not siding with the greedy "governors". Lol. I'm just sick of all of this bs.
There is a lot of merit to.what your saying, idk I saw the article and figured it was worthy of posting.
Players will always want to get fair market value after seeing players score massive deals especially when they think their value is much higher.
I have no problems with Mahomes getting such a big money deal but guys like Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones and DeShawn Watson set the market in a stupid direction
....
The way the market was being set was that each subsequent signing of one of the top QBs set the market in yearly average, guaranteed, or overall.
If you remember, Cousins played in the tag 2 years before getting the guaranteed deal, and it wasn't a long term one.
The deal for Watson was idiotic.
At the end of the day, yes the owners are making substantial money in the labor of the players. However, the owners have no incentive to put a great or even good product in the field. They split up a huge pie regardless of whether their teams finish first or last. The way the economics of the leagues work now means that the money paid to the players (and the owners) can no longer be excused as being the spoils if a capitalistic system. That is no longer how these leagues function. Owners used to be incentivized to win because they made substantially more by putting a better product on the field.
They still do make substantially more putting a better product on the field. All of the most valuable franchises put competitive products out, try and win, and most were consistent winners at some point during the fans lifetime. Winning breeds loyalty that gets people still coming and watching during a down year it also creates merchandise revenue. Theres a reason why the Cowboys are the most valuable franchise at over 8 billion being one of the most valuable franchises in the world meanwhile the Cardnials are values between 3 and 4 billion. The Patriots are estimated to be number two when before Brady got there they wouldnt have even been in the top half of the league, no one really cared about them until they started winning and now theyre a national brand
Missouri 14 OSU 3
....
Yes, I am aware of the extra money that they can make in such a way. But the reality is that the main revenue is coming from the tv deals, which they split. Or I am incorrect on this? Before the huge tv deals, teams had to rely on putting out a better product to make money. Some owners had other businesses, some did not. Some owners could afford to lose money on the team, and still pay the players, etc. But now it's a giant multi billion dollar business with a salary cap, etc.
Are you saying, @Basebal21 , that sports franchise owners, in your opinion, are generally motivated to put the best possible product on the field because that is how they make the most money?
I'm saying in the NFL they're generally motivated to try and put the best product on the field. Theres money they split as a league and money they dont. The tv deals that are split are big money, but selling luxury boxes/stadium naming rights are also big money too which they dont have to split. They get to keep the majority of their ticket money among other things. The big national popular teams can charge significantly more for their boxes and naming. The other thing too is if you're good you get put in the primetime games which further builds the brand, while if you bad you get the Thursday night game if you end up being broadcast at all
In general in the NFL even the bad teams like Washington and the Jets have been trying to win all this time, they were just making bad decisions or had organizational issues that were ruining players. The NFL has been pretty good at keeping out owners who just want to tank, even the Cardinals owner whose so cheap he charges players for meals at the facility paid up for Murry (which very likely was a mistake). Baseball would be a different story when you have at least 1/3rd of the owners that have been in tank mode for a decade just using the teams as their own personal piggy bank. Its the opposite for baseball, they only have a handful of owners that want to win where the NFL only has a handful they may not care that much.
The other thing the NFL does really well is the draft. Its expensive to keep having top picks tanking in the NFL. Baseball limits what teams can spend on the entire draft and the first overall pick only gets about 8 million and it quickly falls from there. After that they get stuffed in the minors making a few hundred a month until they get called up to the pros and teams have 6 years before they have to call them up or theyre a minor league free agent. That really encourages tanking and just stockpiling a big minor league system. NFL teams would be doing back flips if they could get the 15th overall pick for 8 million much less the first.
Not to mention that NFL careers are so short its impossible to get players to tank and blatantly obvious if you do benching everyone. Texans missed the first overall pick because they tried to and did win their final game. For all of the NFL flaws they have done a good job getting owners to buy into the idea its better for them to be winners
Missouri 14 OSU 3
C'mon. He's got a higher career passer rating than Hurts and Herbert and had 36 touchdowns 3 years ago. He's not an elite passer but he's better than you're giving him credit for.
Also, to correct the above, John Harbaugh has only won one Super Bowl.
Sadly, his performance has continued to deteriorate. Stop the cap on career, let's go to the last year (2nd worst completion %) or the last two years.
THen again, please tell me his record in playoffs or in 4th Quarter comebacks in the last two years again???
He needs to prove himself out, and he is like a QB version of Zeke Elliot sadly (again).
Well, just Love coins, period.
😂😂😂😂
It would help if he actually had some WRs to throw too besides a TE
Missouri 14 OSU 3
It doesn’t matter that much if he could have sucked it up and played in the play-offs or not. He’s been on the shelf for two years in a row when his team really needed him. That probably got Jimmy Garoppolo in the dog house at San Francisco. If I were a big Baltimore fan (I am a small one after attending so many Baltimore coin shows.) I’d be welcoming his departure with his salary cap busting demands.
I will be blunt in that ownership whereby a State or City name is used... which is always...involves something that seems to extend well beyond traditional private ownership. It is about the market you serve and one needs to do their best to relate to that market. It is clear that those involved in this dispute have so much to learn. And watching this salary dispute is really not well placed to serve anyone...
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
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In your opinion,how do the Ravens fans feel about retaining it moving on from Jackson? Is there a generational difference of opinion?
There's no reason to feel it should extend past private ownership unless it actually does. The cities want the teams and benefit from having them. Winning is something for the owners and teams to worry about. For the players Its a job and the player would be dropped like a bad habit if they started to fail at their job. The player has no obligation to a place of employment
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I might be wrong, as I can't speak for @coinkat , but I took his comment to mean that if the team is the Baltimore Ravens, then the city of Baltimore should be paramount to decisions.
I obviously read it a little different, but in that case its even a bigger no. The city should have no say or be a consideration for anything other than a new stadium.
This is especially true for the Baltimore Ravens who took the Cleveland Browns and relocated them to Baltimore because the city of Baltimore lured them away and was basically begging them to come.
Missouri 14 OSU 3
The way the Colts left Baltimore and how the Browns arrived is problematic. Two wrongs simply don't make a right.
Not sure there is a fix - Perhaps the Green Bay ownership model would help.
I really don't know how Ravens fans feel about this. There really is a significant disconnect in professional sports- at times it really seems to be a house of cards just waiting for the inevitable perfect storm.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I think Colin Cowherd sums the situation up pretty good in this video.
LOL
Let’s all hope so; Ron Mexico rides again!!!
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https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/987963/1951-wheaties-premium-photos-set-registry#latest
Ron Mexico, LOL, heck, Carlos Danger.