Do you use the Greysheet if you are not a dealer.
DisneyFan
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At every show I see the Greysheet on both sides of the aisle. I know dealers swear by it. But if you are a collector, do you use it? Please do not respond if you are a vest pocket dealer.
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I used to, maybe 5-7 years ago. Not anymore…instead I review recent auction history on HA, GC, etc. It’s more than good enough for my purposes.
Dave
It's unusual for collectors to subscribe to grey sheet, but some do. If you are spending enough on coins each year you can justify it. A lot of collectors will ask dealers for back issues of the grey sheet that they can use for reference. I personally don't use it because most of the coins I collect aren't covered by it.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
^ This, ten or so years ago I used to try and snag an old copy to use. But today the auction history is good enough data to be in the ballpark most of the time. Really only useful for the really thinly bought/sold coins and that is not usually an area I'm buying.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I use it to get base prices. I expect to pay more, expect get a little less if I am selling. Having been a dealer, I what it’s like on the other side of the table.
No. I try to get closer to reality...for the most part I use auction results and what I view as comps based on date/mm, sticker situation, pops and toning quality etc. If I used the silly greysheet, I would not own a single coin that I currently have. For my collection, it's junk.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Yes. Six of us in my local coin club share a subscription and we each get a hard copy on a six-month rotation.
My strategy is about collecting what I intend to keep, not investing in what I plan to sell.
It really depends on what you buy.
I use it it only are a BASE REFERENCE or a STARTING POINT. I expect to pay MORE for PQ items and recent auction records from firms such as GC, HA, SB, etc. usually support and substantiate that opinion or claim. I find the Greysheet to be more accurate for widgets and generics (such as common Morgans) and less so on PQ rarities and other more thinly traded and select quality items (such as Bust and Seated material).
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I used to use it for a little while many years ago when I was buying coins that I thought I could resell to get enough funds to buy coins for my long term collection. I never used greysheet then or now for the coins in my long term collection though. Instead I target particular coins to buy next and search everywhere online and look at some past auction results so I know what they are going for and look for the best eye appealing coins without overspending. Only I’m not as organized as that sounds, sometimes I just go by gut feeling and look up what they are worth after the fact if I see a coin that jumps out at me.
Mr_Spud
I know less than most here so take what I say with a grain of salt.
I use auction results. I'm my own aggregator of pricing info. Before the internet, my guess Greysheets was a neccesity.
I liken it to the London gold fix. indispensible for decades. Now? Do I need five principal gold bullion traders and refiners informing me where the price of gold is at 11:00AM?
With that said, I still look at greysheets before I reach a final price but it's not my primary source for pricing.
Used to get it once a year to help me evaluate my collection and shop at shows. Now I just mostly use auction records from coinfacts.
It seems like the last time I tried to get a single hard copy it wasn’t an option, or at least not a good one for me.
Collectors should use CPG which is a retail price guide published by CDN based on greysheet.
A collector may refer to his copy but they are blowing in the wind if they expect to buy at or near the GS price. Sometimes one may cite CDN Bid to me like they think that is going to manipulate me sell it at bid or some low ball price. I tell them laughing “send them (CDN) a check.”
Many years ago at a show the show promoters handed out free greysheet to the public coming in the bourse room. It made dealers furious.
Depends what you're buying, greysheet is helpful for widgets but useless for PQ or rarities. Auction comps are really all that matters for me.
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I subscribed for several years while living in the PNW and going to numerous coin shows a year. Then, after I moved to the East, I dropped the subscription. I still consult it when considering a purchase. Cheers, RickO
I always start with Coinfacts for auction results and populations. From there I go to HA for a deeper dive to get Greysheet and CPG as well as look at pictures of recent auctions to get a feel for auction results on PQ coins. Just a ton of knowledge to absorb on the HA site.
There were a couple of small time coin dealers who brought their old issues to our coin club meetings to sell them when they got a new issue. Not sure if that violates some subscriber agreement. I cringe when I see someone pull out a xerox copy of the current issue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Yes, it violates the terms of usage.
Since mainly doing US Mods, Bullion coins, world coins and currency my mindset is making offers / bids based on pct of MV (or what I think can sell it for). I do take a digital CDN CPG and BNB subscription. For PCGs refer to CF or Cert verify MV, NGC refer to Cert verify MV. I may splurge and upgrade subscrx to include CDN bid (pickup a few US Classic coins). I try keep fixed overhead costs as low as possible. At shows my focus is on moving material / cash flow it may be as low as cost plus 5-10 pct in certain areas.
It was a valuable tool when I was building collections. It gave a quick reference point. Then, for a deeper dive, auction results would be obtained and all the data points meshed together to come to a fair price. I still use it regularly for quick, ballpark pricing.
What’s the Greysheet?
Coin Dealer Newsletter or CDN
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I was trying to be funny but my attempt at humor was obviously very poor.
Is this any better?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I have not seen one in 40 years.
In the late 70's when I worked in a coin shop in Maryland we lived and died by the greysheet and it was gospel and most of the dealers either paid bid or 10 back of bid and it worked out well. I got away from that around 1979 and didn't see another greysheet until a couple of weeks ago.
I had the opportunity to buy a large collection of modern proof sets so I ordered a single copy and read up on how the dealing is taking place with the proof sets. Looking at their numbers and their notes about pristine boxes and contents papers saved me quite a bit of money. I was able to buy almost 200 60s and 70's sets at a really good price and was able to turn 100 of them to a local shop at a small profit and the rest are now resting on my table waiting to be sorted and broken open for possible grading candidates and additions to my coin albums.
I don't see the need for buying another copy anytime soon. I can look at PCGS price list for anything I might be searching for since I don't buy great rarities or super condition coins. I'm old and can't really see the difference between 66-69 consistently.
I always assumed Grey Sheet Ask was about the same as NGC or PCGS price guide. Is it the same as FMV ? Anybody want to explain that ? Then someone will say it matters whether its NGC or PCGS. Anyone want a stab on that one ?
Greysheet is wholesale, PCGS price guide is retail.
Great responses. It's great to get real-world feedback and we take it all to heart. I make a point to publicly state that Greysheet/CPG values are just one piece in the research buyers should use to make informed decisions. PCGS price guide is another critical tool as well as APRs (auction prices). Do your homework before buying coins. We are just trying to help with an unbiased clarity.
FWIW I just participated in a really fun interview with the guys at The Coin Shop Podcast. A lot of my responses will resonate with questions raised here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJvJ5W6XcGE
-John
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
you're in for a shock then. It's grown from 16 to over 140 pages, in full color. We now price nearly everything in the Redbook and more, in wholesale (Greysheet) and retail (CPG). Most of the values are found online only because of space limitations. You can learn more at www.greysheet.com
-John
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
Thank you for stating this. Too often people take liberties with our pricing information. If you knew how much time, effort and dedication our team makes to curate pricing and make the publications, you (hopefully) wouldn't make copies, or even share subscriptions. We need the financial support of the community to keep doing this.
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
I'll use it to get a ballpark baseline for Type Coins and then calculate averages from HA, GC, and ebay to get a better representation of current auctions.
For Early Copper, I'll look at auction houses results but look more at the specific coin I'm considering and the likelihood that I'll run across another one like it if it's truly a PQ example.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Useful if you are selling to be reasonably sure you are not being lowballed.
@DisneyFan said:
To me the most helpful were:
While Greysheet's target market is Coin Dealers, charging a minimum of three months ( $104.97) for access in order to keep it exclusive would cause collectors to share the cost especially when so much other information is free.
Thanks. I have to remember that next time I offer a dealer a coin and he pulls out his grey sheet.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I do not subscribe to GS as a collector. I have used their info when made available by a dealer friend.
I will use any and all information when contemplating a big cost item.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Within the last year, my wife and I were offering a somewhat rare date low end DE on E-Bay and the buyer offered to pay $500 above greysheets which I later learned was $3700 (he never gave us a price in dollars). My wife told him she had no knowledge where greysheets priciing was.. but if his bid is less than $4500 to buy the coin from Greysheets. He responded by launching into a tirade of "salty language" so I guess Greysheets is the bible to some?
If you’re a dealer who doesn’t specialize in a particular series I can see why a Greysheet is a valuable tool. If you’re a dealer and someone offers you a circulated coin from the 1850’s how are you supposed to know what the value is. For someone like me who is a specialist collecting niche stuff Greysheet isn’t particularly helpful for me.
Most of the people in my 2 local clubs use GS. As many people have already pointed out: You cannot rely solely on GS pricing. It is merely a guide... A baseline starting point. Many other factors go into accurately pricing a coin.
I use to buy the single CDN issue about 3 or 4 times a year when they were offered just to stay on top of prices if I was going to buy something and to mark my collection to market in Excel. Used for Morgans, Peace & WLHs. Was very useful and the price of issue was right.
The question I have is for dealers or folks who sell regularly, & excluding high end stuff and rarities. If at a coin show & I want to buy an item and I quote CDN 'ask' prices, would you consider such a request ? Or do you feel retail customer should get no such 'wholesale discount'. Just wondering if a dealer feels only dealers should get the wholesale price and is willing to wait out & decline my offer to sell at retail prices. At a local show a dealer once told me that 80% of the transactions were dealer to dealer and a lot done before retail customer even came in. If a dealer is willing to sell at wholesale $X to another dealer, can I get that same deal, or does it get marked up in most cases.
The price is the price. Again, GS should be used as a baseline but no buyer in a retail setting or show should expect to be able to buy at those prices. A dealer should respect that there are savvy buyers as well as other dealers that will make up a large percentage of their clientele. My point being... There are no set rules for these kinds of transactions. No buyer should expect to pay GS but no seller should look down on a buyer for trying.
I should have been clearer in my example. If a dealer is willing to sell to another dealer at $X, lets say that is CDN ask price because it is not a rarity, i.e. a MS63/64 common Morgan, should the dealer be willing to sell to me at the same $X if I ask? Maybe that is what you meant by the price is the price.
I have never been to a show but on E-Bay here are my policies on E-Bay.. Not exactly what u asked but .. here goes.
My original pricing is based on where I believe the market is for a coin that i am offering.
A retail buyer can quote CDN 'ask prices" or any other price he wishes but
My decision to sell at a lower price is generally based on:
1)What is my inventory position (Do I wish to raise cash or not?)
2)Do I wish to hold onto that particular coin (due to rarity, etc)
3)Have I done business with the buyer (bought from me before?)
4)A dealer? I will often quote a somewhat better price since I might need coin or two from them in the future (thus similar to point 3 ...only a more extensive relationship).
Let me answer both questions:
Well, I didn’t think I was breaking the rules but I guess I did.
I was wondering about the same question last year and went on eBay and found about a gazillion offers for a fairly recent copy. I bought one, maybe $10, and running through it quickly discovered that as a smaller collector and not really a dealer, it was informative and well laid out. Obviously, alot of work.
@ JohnF , I wish to apologize, no excuses.
Once I realized the amount of work that went into doing this, and realized that it was something very useful just not something that I would use or need , I was of a different opinion.
🎶 shout shout, let it all out 🎶
Well, to be fair, it was more the person who sold it to you that was breaking the rules. It's their responsibility to obey the terms of use. You were more of an accessory to the crime.
Look up "The first sale doctrine". You are violating their subscription policy at worst. All they can do is cancel your membership.
@Jzyskowski1
SHAME!!!
Founder- Peak Rarities
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Thank you for your candor. My coming on here and advocating that folks subscribe rather than buy (or receive, whatever) second-hand copies of our publications is simply to inform. I find that most people (collectors or dealers) feel that data is free to share, which is frustrating for those of us who make a living on selling data. All we can ask at CDN is that people respect that, and we appreciate all of you. Thanks again!
John
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
@DisneyFan said: if you are a collector, do you use it?
I think it's prudent to be using whatever your buyer will be referencing. At most shows, especially smaller shows, that's what they use so it makes sense to know what they know. If I went to a show and dealers were pulling out a Playboy magazine to quote me a price, guess what?? I'd be carrying a Playboy to the show.
I know. It was a joke, hence the smiley emoticon