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Why do coins look so amazing in a coin shop?

ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

I don't often get to coin shops. Most of my purchases are online in one form or another. I visited a coin shop this weekend and most every coin just popped with luster and I was drooling on myself. I purchased a couple coins and when I got them home they were still very nice but not as nice as in the store. I also noticed this in the past previewing coins before an auction at CSNS. The coins I wound up winning did not have the same look. Still very nice but not the same. I am going to throw a guess that it is the fluorescent lighting.

Anyone else notice this. Coin shop owners what is the secret?

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    gumby1234gumby1234 Posts: 5,428 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely the lighting

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,640 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lighting, experienced sellers, good marketing strategy, strong inventory.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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    DeplorableDanDeplorableDan Posts: 2,561 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lighting is huge. Even at a coin show, some tables are set up with more advanced lighting that just makes everything more flashy

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    jacrispiesjacrispies Posts: 718 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I can see how lighting can make a huge difference. I wonder what kind of other subliminal messaging coin shops can use to make their coins look better. Probably the color of trays make a difference too.

    I was thinking that it all depends on what you're looking at. All my LCS have nice newer coins but trashy older coins. They'll have a BU washington for your type set, but most of the bust coins are VG tops or holed.

    "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23. Young fellow suffering from Bust Half fever.

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I find going into a coin shop or show with exaggerated expectations is also a problem. Which makes me see things that aren't really there.

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,318 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    Lighting, experienced sellers, good marketing strategy, strong inventory.

    No question lighting is key, but experienced sellers know how to hold the coin in that lighting for best eye views by the customer.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I am wondering what type of lighting is used to achieve this. My expectations are not what makes the coins look so good. I hold the coins myself and use my own glass. I am not kidding the stuff in this shop all looks exceptional for what it is. If the coins are average they look great and if they are great they look phenomenal. All types as well. I am not talking about marks I am talking about luster and color. They eye appeal is amazing. I am not complaining or saying it is bad. I just want to know how it is done. I thoroughly enjoyed looking at all the coins. The gold especially almost had a green glow to it. Same with the Indian cents, Buffalo Nickels, and Walkers.

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    Adrenaline & Lighting for me.
    The coin shops I visit are not well lit. However, I know the lighting effect all to well when my wife wants to visit a jewelry store.

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    HillbillyCollectorHillbillyCollector Posts: 516 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:
    The gold especially almost had a green glow to it.

    God, don’t you just love that deep green gold, the Best!

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    Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What about aroma therapy? Burning incense would be cool.

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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Namvet69 said:
    What about aroma therapy? Burning incense would be cool.

    The coins looked so nice that I think I smelled incense. Maybe it was what I was burning before going to the shop! LOL

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    @ironmanl63
    Could have been the hole burning in your wallet. I know that smell too!
    It smells like broke again!

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    OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 5,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Watchtower said:
    @ironmanl63
    Could have been the hole burning in your wallet.

    The smell of burnt leather? 🤣

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

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    1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:
    I don't often get to coin shops. Most of my purchases are online in one form or another. I visited a coin shop this weekend and most every coin just popped with luster and I was drooling on myself. I purchased a couple coins and when I got them home they were still very nice but not as nice as in the store. I also noticed this in the past previewing coins before an auction at CSNS. The coins I wound up winning did not have the same look. Still very nice but not the same. I am going to throw a guess that it is the fluorescent lighting.

    Anyone else notice this. Coin shop owners what is the secret?

    If you think that is amazing, just take a look at diamond jewelry in a jewelry shop.

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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1northcoin said:

    @ironmanl63 said:
    I don't often get to coin shops. Most of my purchases are online in one form or another. I visited a coin shop this weekend and most every coin just popped with luster and I was drooling on myself. I purchased a couple coins and when I got them home they were still very nice but not as nice as in the store. I also noticed this in the past previewing coins before an auction at CSNS. The coins I wound up winning did not have the same look. Still very nice but not the same. I am going to throw a guess that it is the fluorescent lighting.

    Anyone else notice this. Coin shop owners what is the secret?

    If you think that is amazing, just take a look at diamond jewelry in a jewelry shop.

    I will but I will have to do it alone. Do not want the wife burning my coin money!

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sapyx said:
    I don't know if it's still included in the latest editions, but the original 1980s edition of the Coin Collector's Survival Manual warns people to beware of lighting in coin shops that make coins look better than they really are.

    Maybe the coin shop lighting is making coins look just like they really are, and lighting elsewhere makes them look worse?

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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sapyx said:
    I don't know if it's still included in the latest editions, but the original 1980s edition of the Coin Collector's Survival Manual warns people to beware of lighting in coin shops that make coins look better than they really are.

    There's lighting that can make coins look much worse than they really are, too. Some coin shops have different lighting for the "buying" and "selling" counters, to try to take advantage of this.

    Thanks I did not know this!

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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MasonG said:

    @Sapyx said:
    I don't know if it's still included in the latest editions, but the original 1980s edition of the Coin Collector's Survival Manual warns people to beware of lighting in coin shops that make coins look better than they really are.

    Maybe the coin shop lighting is making coins look just like they really are, and lighting elsewhere makes them look worse?

    Maybe. But I think not!

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:

    @Sapyx said:
    I don't know if it's still included in the latest editions, but the original 1980s edition of the Coin Collector's Survival Manual warns people to beware of lighting in coin shops that make coins look better than they really are.

    There's lighting that can make coins look much worse than they really are, too. Some coin shops have different lighting for the "buying" and "selling" counters, to try to take advantage of this.

    Thanks I did not know this!

    I'm sure it's possible they exist, but I've never been in a shop that has a dedicated "buying" and "selling" counter.

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    MasonGMasonG Posts: 6,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:

    @MasonG said:

    @Sapyx said:
    I don't know if it's still included in the latest editions, but the original 1980s edition of the Coin Collector's Survival Manual warns people to beware of lighting in coin shops that make coins look better than they really are.

    Maybe the coin shop lighting is making coins look just like they really are, and lighting elsewhere makes them look worse?

    Maybe. But I think not!

    Ok. So all you have to do is ask the shop about their lighting so you can duplicate it at home. Then your coins will look the same at both places.

    Problem solved. :)

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lighting from further away enhances luster. Therefore if they have lighting from high on the ceiling, the coins will brighter. That is not totally inaccurate. High up lighting (little lights hung on the ceiling) can de-emphasize thin film interference which is a form of toning which makes coins look duller. I am not saying that is the beginning and the end of grading, but it is an eye appeal factor. Usually you need to compensate for it.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    Lighting from further away enhances luster. Therefore if they have lighting from high on the ceiling, the coins will brighter. That is not totally inaccurate. High up lighting (little lights hung on the ceiling) can de-emphasize thin film interference which is a form of toning which makes coins look duller. I am not saying that is the beginning and the end of grading, but it is an eye appeal factor. Usually you need to compensate for it.

    That would also explain why coins looking so lustrous while previewing them at auctions. They usually have that high up lighting. I think you have provided the answer. Thanks!

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    1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1northcoin said:

    @ironmanl63 said:
    I don't often get to coin shops. Most of my purchases are online in one form or another. I visited a coin shop this weekend and most every coin just popped with luster and I was drooling on myself. I purchased a couple coins and when I got them home they were still very nice but not as nice as in the store. I also noticed this in the past previewing coins before an auction at CSNS. The coins I wound up winning did not have the same look. Still very nice but not the same. I am going to throw a guess that it is the fluorescent lighting.

    Anyone else notice this. Coin shop owners what is the secret?

    If you think that is amazing, just take a look at diamond jewelry in a jewelry shop.

    OK, here is an example - this photo was taken at a jewelry ship on [OK - ironically] The Diamond Princess. (Yes the same cruise ship that brought to the world first awareness of COVID-19. Photo from a cruise earlier in 2019.)

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    skier07skier07 Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:

    @BillJones said:
    Lighting from further away enhances luster. Therefore if they have lighting from high on the ceiling, the coins will brighter. That is not totally inaccurate. High up lighting (little lights hung on the ceiling) can de-emphasize thin film interference which is a form of toning which makes coins look duller. I am not saying that is the beginning and the end of grading, but it is an eye appeal factor. Usually you need to compensate for it.

    That would also explain why coins looking so lustrous while previewing them at auctions. They usually have that high up lighting. I think you have provided the answer. Thanks!

    Auction lot viewing is in a darkish room with a single light on a table in front of you.

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    SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2023 4:53AM

    The table of effects of different lighting types on coins is still given in the later editions of the Coin Collectors Survival Manual.

    Light sources that make coins look "better" are:
    - Floodlights
    - Bare filament bulbs
    - Chandeliers

    Light sources that make coins look "worse" are:
    - Direct sunlight
    - Halogen lamps
    - Fluorescent tubes

    Optimal "neutral" light sources:
    - Frosted bulbs
    -Tensor lamp with fluorescent background

    I think my copy of the CCSM predates the prevalence of LED lamps, so I don't know where they fall on the scale.

    A dealer's association-run coin show that my coin club is involved with has a supply of bare filament light stands they give out to all the dealers at each booth. One time when I was volunteering for them to help set up, they asked me to run down to a nearby lighting store to buy a bunch of replacement bulbs. They insisted I only buy bare filament bulbs, and not the fluorescent or frosted ones. So yes, this effect is well known by dealers, who do go out of their way to stage the lighting to make their coins look good.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Based on my experience, florescent lights are bad for grading because they hide fine hairline scratches but they are good for authentication because you can really see all of the coin's surface details under high magnification without the flash and reflection from an incandescent or halogen lamp.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Certainly the effect of lighting is well known and exploited. Also the layout of the display and background coloring are contributing factors. Much like makeup on actors/actresses and the lighting in the set/studio. Cheers, RickO

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    ironmanl63ironmanl63 Posts: 1,971 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @skier07 said:

    @ironmanl63 said:

    @BillJones said:
    Lighting from further away enhances luster. Therefore if they have lighting from high on the ceiling, the coins will brighter. That is not totally inaccurate. High up lighting (little lights hung on the ceiling) can de-emphasize thin film interference which is a form of toning which makes coins look duller. I am not saying that is the beginning and the end of grading, but it is an eye appeal factor. Usually you need to compensate for it.

    That would also explain why coins looking so lustrous while previewing them at auctions. They usually have that high up lighting. I think you have provided the answer. Thanks!

    Auction lot viewing is in a darkish room with a single light on a table in front of you.

    You are correct but I believe they do have some lights on from above. I have not looked at lots since before the pandemic. When I lot view I twirl the coin away from the small light to get a general feel for the coin before I look at it with a glass. This is when the luster and color jump off of the coin like nothing else. What I am talking about is how the coins look in the cases and in your hands not under the light with a glass for close inspection. I think the term you can see it from across the room comes from what I am speaking about.

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    skier07skier07 Posts: 3,697 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 30, 2023 9:07AM

    I haven’t been to a LCS in years but I have always felt like coins look better when lot viewing or on the bourse. Perhaps because nobody views a coin the same way in their house compared to the bourse or lot viewing. I can’t imagine a large venue like a coin show in a convention center is capable of doing something to the make the lighting more favorable for coins. Dealers at coin shows can bring their own lamps to enhance the look of a coin.

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    neildrobertsonneildrobertson Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sapyx said:
    The table of effects of different lighting types on coins is still given in the later editions of the Coin Collectors Survival Manual.

    Light sources that make coins look "better" are:
    - Floodlights
    - Bare filament bulbs
    - Chandeliers

    Light sources that make coins look "worse" are:
    - Direct sunlight
    - Halogen lamps
    - Fluorescent tubes

    Optimal "neutral" light sources:
    - Frosted bulbs
    -Tensor lamp with fluorescent background

    I think my copy of the CCSM predates the prevalence of LED lamps, so I don't know where they fall on the scale.

    A dealer's association-run coin show that my coin club is involved with has a supply of bare filament light stands they give out to all the dealers at each booth. One time when I was volunteering for them to help set up, they asked me to run down to a nearby lighting store to buy a bunch of replacement bulbs. They insisted I only buy bare filament bulbs, and not the fluorescent or frosted ones. So yes, this effect is well known by dealers, who do go out of their way to stage the lighting to make their coins look good.

    This is the answer. Everyone just read this. It perfectly mimics my own experiences without necessarily being taught the information.

    IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
    "Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me

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    Klif50Klif50 Posts: 663 ✭✭✭✭

    When I was working at a coin shop in Laurel Maryland in 1979 we had a power outage and lost our lights (it was late afternoon). We had a guy in demanding to look at buffalo nickels and all we had were flashlights and we let him look. Flashlights make buffalo nickels look great. He bought a few that "he" graded as XF and I charged him according to his grades and told him I wouldn't take any of them back once the lights came on since he decided the grade he wanted to pay. He left, the lights came back on and he came back very dissatisfied. Showed him my copy of the receipt where I had written "no returns, customer dictated grades, grading done by flashlight" and he had signed it. We lost that customer that day but that was OK with the boss since he always had an attitude and always argued over price, grade, who bought the last round of Cokes, and why he had to park 4 rows out in the parking lot. Some people are never happy.

    Bottom line is, lighting is everything when it comes to shopping for anything where condition matters.

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I figure how things "really look" is outside, in direct sunlight. Most of our coins, even pretty toners, look terrible. I no longer open my packages in the parking lot of the post office. I'm generally happier if I wait until they get to "my room" in the basement where lighting is ideal.

    I bought a copper coin at a Long Beach show a few years ago. I was really in love with it..... until I got home and noticed an enormous spot covering 1/4 of the obverse. Bourse lighting is really terrible. I usually try to take a look under a lamp with a loupe, but I missed that one somehow. Paid a little tuition that day.

    Funny..... I offered the coin back to the same dealer a year later. His assessment of the coin's virtues had diminished considerably in the intervening year. He didn't miss the spot.

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    OnastoneOnastone Posts: 3,786 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ironmanl63 said:

    I purchased a couple coins and when I got them home they were still very nice but not as nice as in the store.

    Sure lighting has a lot to do with it, but getting them home is key....the old shipping and handling problems.....e.g., they fell out of their flips when the kids were juggling them in the back!!!! ;)

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    1northcoin1northcoin Posts: 3,836 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @1northcoin said:

    @1northcoin said:

    @ironmanl63 said:
    I don't often get to coin shops. Most of my purchases are online in one form or another. I visited a coin shop this weekend and most every coin just popped with luster and I was drooling on myself. I purchased a couple coins and when I got them home they were still very nice but not as nice as in the store. I also noticed this in the past previewing coins before an auction at CSNS. The coins I wound up winning did not have the same look. Still very nice but not the same. I am going to throw a guess that it is the fluorescent lighting.

    Anyone else notice this. Coin shop owners what is the secret?

    If you think that is amazing, just take a look at diamond jewelry in a jewelry shop.

    OK, here is an example - this photo was taken at a jewelry ship on [OK - ironically] The Diamond Princess. (Yes the same cruise ship that brought to the world first awareness of COVID-19. Photo from a cruise earlier in 2019.)

    FWIW, the diamonds circle a Star Ruby. I think the asking price was over 5K.

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    Che_GrapesChe_Grapes Posts: 1,851 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lighting is everything…
    A little aroma therapy doesn’t hurt either, that’s what the casinos do …!!


    Same coin!

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    AllentramAllentram Posts: 92 ✭✭✭

    Definitely lighting. At my dimly lit desk, my MS and proof coins just look just okay, hard to appreciate them there. When I take them to the kitchen, with white counter tops, and 9 LED floodights lighting it up above from the 12' ceiling, they look absolutely amazing, just as good when I bought them at shops or shows. Yes, my wife thinks I'm weird when I look at them in the kitchen. :p

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    PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,443 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I enjoy looking at coins at a window on a nice sunny day but not in the direct sunlight.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

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    SapyxSapyx Posts: 2,009 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @skier07 said:
    I can’t imagine a large venue like a coin show in a convention center is capable of doing something to the make the lighting more favorable for coins. Dealers at coin shows can bring their own lamps to enhance the look of a coin.

    Perhaps the venue may not be able to offer much choice in the lighting available to their customers... but the people organizing the convention get to decide where to hold it, and if dealers have a say in the matter, choosing a venue with "good lighting" - i.e. lighting that enhances the appearance of coins - will be part of their decision-making process.

    A venue that was otherwise perfect for a coin show in terms of size, location, parking etc, but which was lit only by banks of fluorescent lights, would not be popular with dealers. They won't want to go back there. They may not even be consciously aware of why they hate the place - all they know is the lights there make their coins look bad, and that they aren't selling as many coins as they think they should be.

    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
    Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"

    Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD. B)
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    kruegerkrueger Posts: 807 ✭✭✭

    Has anyone seen or own a portable ( to take to shows) light.
    I have tried high end led flashlights but without a stand hard to use holding coin and a loupe.
    Have not been able to find or make an appropriate stand.
    Someone must have one that can be used on the Bourse these days where many dealers have no lighting as they did in days past. I am taking my high end led flashlight to my next show again . Can give a better look than ceiling lighting.
    But can't use loupe with it. This flashlight works wonders on banknotes . It Will show every wrinkel and crease

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    lilolmelilolme Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 1, 2023 1:40AM

    @krueger said:
    Has anyone seen or own a portable ( to take to shows) light.

    .
    Today there is a wide range of portable lights (and battery powered). Do a search on it - portable light (battery powered). Available at multiple types of stores (Walmart, Amazon, Lowes, Staples....). Also varying in type of stand, base or clip and type of bulb or light. The thing that might be harder is finding the one with a bulb that you like to use. But since you mentioned LED flashlight, then I think there will be some.

    Edit - Or if you like the flashlight, then a stand / holder for the flashlight.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=2YNufnS_kf4 - Mama I'm coming home ...................................................................................................................................................................... RLJ 1958 - 2023

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    DisneyFanDisneyFan Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BryceM said:

    I bought a copper coin at a Long Beach show a few years ago. I was really in love with it..... until I got home and noticed an enormous spot covering 1/4 of the obverse. Bourse lighting is really terrible. I usually try to take a look under a lamp with a loupe, but I missed that one somehow. Paid a little tuition that day.

    Funny..... I offered the coin back to the same dealer a year later. His assessment of the coin's virtues had diminished considerably in the intervening year. He didn't miss the spot.

    Was this a graded coin?

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    ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,422 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    Lighting can make a huge difference and it’s something to be aware of anytime you’re examining coins.

    Back in the day, the best place to find anything from low end to super expensive coins locally was the George Bennett auctions at the Masonic Hall, in Van Nuys, CA. A few times I got a big score. But once, I got an otherwise amazing coin but I did not see the hit on Miss Liberty's check, which made it no so special and I overpaid for it. All due to the lighting in the place.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DisneyFan said:

    @BryceM said:

    I bought a copper coin at a Long Beach show a few years ago. I was really in love with it..... until I got home and noticed an enormous spot covering 1/4 of the obverse. Bourse lighting is really terrible. I usually try to take a look under a lamp with a loupe, but I missed that one somehow. Paid a little tuition that day.

    Funny..... I offered the coin back to the same dealer a year later. His assessment of the coin's virtues had diminished considerably in the intervening year. He didn't miss the spot.

    Was this a graded coin?

    Yup. It was probably OK for the grade. Nothing stellar. Definitely not PQ. It's just not the sort of coin I want in my collection.

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    ARCOARCO Posts: 4,313 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Its the lighting.

    The only light I trust is sunlight - indirect sunlight.

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    ChangeInHistoryChangeInHistory Posts: 3,008 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Lighting and anticipation (we have $ burning a hole in our pocket)

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